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Posted: 4/26/2001 1:50:18 AM EST
I don't like carbines anymore! Sure they look hi-speed, and are a pound or two lighter, but when I want to consistently hit a distant target, and squeeze full potential out of the 5.56mm, give me 20" of barrel and a real stock. Even stranger, I think I can live with just one AR! I have sold my M4gery and one of my 6520s, and am auctioning off my last 6520 now. Hmmm... Maybe I will use some of the funds for a DCM rifle to go with my new pair of Browning HP MKIIIs and FAL though! [:D]
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 2:14:58 AM EST
Oddly enough, after owning a couple of fullsize 20" pre-ban Colts for the last 10 years, in the last year and a half I've discovered that I really like carbines. My Colt M4gery and R6830 are the two ARs that get the most use these days. I wouldn't consider any serious AR enthusiast's collection complete without a carbine of some sort. I think 3 would be the absolute minimum number of ARs that I would want in my vault. That would be one pre-ban fullsize USGI A2 type, one pre-ban carbine/M4 type, and one dedicated target/varmint setup built on either a pre- or post-ban lower.
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 2:43:49 AM EST
Younger guys like carbines cause they look cool. When you get past that and start thinking about hitting the target (and cutting down on the noise), you want a rifle. Next you'll decide you need a 24 inch. And yes, the carbine is great for those room to room gunfights, but I don't do that much house assaulting any more.
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 3:25:47 AM EST
Don't discount the carbines too much. Last weekend at the Texas Shoot we did a timed high-speed match shooting 6 steel plates, all about the size of a lunch plate. Distance was about 90 yards. I was very surprised to see how many folks, including me, could hit those targets (under pressure) with a 16" carbine (iron sights). A carbine is not made for bullseye target shooting nor is it for long distance. It's primary use is close and tactical range shooting. Boomer, I agree - I have 3 AR's... Shoot well. CMOS Granted I would not want to use a 16" for a 300 yard tange but from 0-300, that carbine will do the job for most "practical" sized targets.
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 5:11:53 AM EST
I had read in some magazine once, a description between rifles, carbines, handguns and shotguns. It went something like this: "When you think you need a rifle, you need a rifle. "When you think you need a pistol, you need a pistol. "When you think you need a shotgun, you need a shotgun. "When you don't know what you need, you need a carbine." I just thought that was a pretty good way of describing it. I own only one AR, a 20" HBAR.
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 5:35:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By JonnieGTyler: "When you don't know what you need, you need a carbine."
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Interesting. Who would have ever thought that supposedly high speed, highly trained special forces units the world 'round really have no idea what they need or what they are doing? Personally, if I HAD to narrow it down to one AR, it would be my first AR15A2, a Colt R6550, basically an M16A2 clone. A real Jack-of-all-trades sort of gun with plenty of versatility. Much better to pack an extra loaded mag than an unnecessarily heavy barrel.
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 5:47:55 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/26/2001 6:07:53 AM EST by TimJ]
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 5:51:25 AM EST
i tend to hit at long ranges give me a 20" but if your a collector get both for your collection.
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 7:19:53 AM EST
700 - i feel the same - m4s are just soo handy though. but i hit better and i think the 20" is really the better overall weapon. carbines are cool but my 6551 has never let me down and i know it can do the job. steve
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 8:22:32 AM EST
IMHO, the carbine is the perfect vehicle for the 223 cartridge. If you're going to lug around a heavy, 20-inch barreled rifle, why not get a 308?
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 8:45:15 AM EST
Thats why I have both. 16" & 24"
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 9:06:10 AM EST
Me likes them ALL! [heavy]
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 9:17:17 AM EST
IMHO, the carbine is the perfect vehicle for the 223 cartridge. If you're going to lug around a heavy, 20-inch barreled rifle, why not get a 308?
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Long doesn't have to mean heavy, though. E.g., a 20" rifle with an A1 style barrel is lighter than a 16" HBAR carbine. I like the idea of an 18" compromise length, but I seem to be in a minority of one on that.
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 9:45:39 AM EST
A man should be horse-whipped for selling a good firearm! NEVER NEVER NEVER for me.
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 11:01:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By Boomer:
Originally Posted By JonnieGTyler: "When you don't know what you need, you need a carbine."
View Quote
Interesting. Who would have ever thought that supposedly high speed, highly trained special forces units the world 'round really have no idea what they need or what they are doing? Personally, if I HAD to narrow it down to one AR, it would be my first AR15A2, a Colt R6550, basically an M16A2 clone. A real Jack-of-all-trades sort of gun with plenty of versatility. Much better to pack an extra loaded mag than an unnecessarily heavy barrel.
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Well, the idea wasn't, of course, that these highly trained personnel don't know what they need. But rather, more like the carbine is a jack-of-all-trades. Maybe not the VERY best in all situations, but able to handle all situations well. Think more along these lines... if you have a pistol and you NEED a rifle, your pretty much SOL. If your in a tight place with your rifle, a pistol would be handier. Whereas a carbine, won't have the looooong range of the rifle or the handiness of the pistol, is a fair substitute for either. IMHO
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 11:11:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By Oslow: And yes, the carbine is great for those room to room gunfights, but I don't do that much house assaulting any more.
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yah, but until im sure im done storming houses i will have to stick with the carbine
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 11:47:50 AM EST
To me, the carbine is the perfect vehicle for the .223. Before anyone calls me a heretic for what I am about to say, let me just proclaim my love for the .223 round. That said, I wouldn't use the .223 for anything past 200 yards. Past 200 yards, I would use .308. So, a 20" barrel on a .223 is pointless, IMHO. If you think you need a longer barrel, then what you really need is a .308, NOT a .223 with a longer barrel. One mans opinion....
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 11:51:47 AM EST
Hmmm... on the one hand, the mall is over 150 meters long, but on the other hand, they do have some tight aisles in the Disney Store... [pistol]
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 12:05:11 PM EST
I like my CAR-15 (built from a kit). It was more accurate then my stock 20" Bushmaster VMatch (chrome lined barrel). Since then I've installed a different bull barrel on the Bushy - Groovy, now I got another spare part. I like them both equally. Both are reliable and fun to shoot. But then, I tend to want one of each flavor. Just my humble opinion.
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 12:46:02 PM EST
if it goes "bang" and sends lead downrange, its good enough for me.
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 12:53:30 PM EST
I have a 14.5" M4, a 20" DCM, and a 24" vARmint. One for every mood I'm in [:D] I think 4 is maybe the magic number of AR's to own. The three above plus a 10.5" full auto. Still can't afford one of them, but maybe in the future. [uzi]
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 1:02:14 PM EST
Or, why not get another upper. Now you can have the best of both worlds. Besides, it's fun to play switch and pitch.
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 1:12:00 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 2:05:01 PM EST
I'm with you Rikwriter and Garandman. I've got a 16"Bull bbl AR-15 and a 24" AR-10. There is nothing inherently inaccurate about a short barrel, in fact a shorter of a given diameter will be stiffer than a long barrel of the same dia. I've yet to do any target shooting with my .223 but it's plenty accurate enough to nail running jack rabbits at 150yds and it's a lot nicer to pack around than my old 22" bull bbl AR15.
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 2:23:56 PM EST
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 2:27:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By DeerSlayer: A man should be horse-whipped for selling a good firearm! NEVER NEVER NEVER for me.
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Selling off 3 good firearms and buying 4 or 5 different good firearms seems like a pretty good idea to me! [;)]
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 2:33:25 PM EST
I too discovered something about AR's. THEY ARE VERY ADDICTIVE!
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 2:42:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By RikWriter: IMHO, the carbine is the perfect vehicle for the 223 cartridge. If you're going to lug around a heavy, 20-inch barreled rifle, why not get a 308?
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My god. I think I just got hit in the head with hog shit from all those flyin pigs..... You and I agree on both (Vehicle and .308) and it will never happen again. McUZI, not supposed to be posting here anymore, but couldn't resist.
Link Posted: 4/26/2001 2:44:52 PM EST
I really like my 16" Bushy. It's nice and handy, and does everything I need it to do. Currently it resides in a place that is very easy to reach in the middle of the night, ready to go with a mag full of Hornady's 72 gr. T.A.P. load. I remember reading in a Guns & Weapons for Law Enforcement that this load is extremely effective on bad guys and is less likely to go through him and into your roommate down the hall than a Federal HydrShok in 9mm. Just a thought.
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 1:38:39 AM EST
Originally Posted By Matt VDW: I like the idea of an 18" compromise length, but I seem to be in a minority of one on that.
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Hmmm... A dissipator with an 18" A2 profile barrel, I might have to look into that! [:D] Would you have to open up the gas port if you cut down a 20" to 18"?
Link Posted: 4/27/2001 3:30:33 AM EST
Would you have to open up the gas port if you cut down a 20" to 18"?
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I asked about that in the "Uppers, Barrels, Etc." forum and no one replied. My guess is that you could get away with the original gas port 98% of the time, but it might be worthwhile to open the port a smidge to cover the other 2%.
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