Because prices will stay the same if they don't raise MW, and having people collect less on SSI/welfare than working a job wouldn't be good. Salaried employees would make more as well (should anyway).

Inflation is the real problem.
MW is a shitty idea, but it's not going anywhere.

What will inflation be when $13 hr is the norm?

Ready for $9 McDonalds cheeseburger? No fries or drink either.

Ready for $6 gallon of milk?

Ready for $30 for a pair of flip flops?

How about $10 for a pound of hamburger 80/20 mix?

Minimum wage laws are feel good measures and typical have little impact on an economies prevailing wage for work force labor.  They usually take effect several years after they are passed and they typically are less than what the prevailing wage.

Minimum Wages are the Min not the average wage, as such raising it typically does not address the underlying goal which is improving wage conditions for those that earn income at or below the poverty lines.

The reality is that you will find economic studies that show both adverse and positive effects.  It is well understand in economics that in a perfectly competitive environment an increase in wages will be offset by either a reduction in employment or an increase in prices to the extent the market will hold.

Consider an economy of fast food restaurants, whose typical clients are among the working class, and law require an increase in minimum wage, in response restaurants noticing their clientele has now some additional spending cash will  increase prices, and at the same time cut employment in order to achieve the same profit goals and retain their share of the market. This is the self correcting action of free market forces.  So in the end the wage increase had little impact across the board.

So one needs to consider if its worth advancing the cause of the working class by focusing on entry level wages, which only a small percentage of the working class earn (only about 4% of wage earners earn the minimum wage), or focus on greater issues that will effect them, such as low economic growth, income tax laws, healthcare.

I have a feeling she thinks that execs and company leaders should cut their paychecks and redistribute that among the lower income individuals.

She's resorting to weak ad hominems and moral/feels arguments for the application of government.

You need to decide right now if this is really worth it to you.

Because there's only one way to win.

You must destroy her.

Publicly, and without remorse.

You need to prove that she is a vapid idiot parroting without thought the rambling claptrap of politicians.

Prove that she is Bernie's groupie.  An unpaid and unloved intellectual whore.

You need to become unremorsefully vicious.  If she doesn't want to end her own life by the time it's all over, you will have failed.

And she will hate you forever because of it.

So, why is that winning?  Because the audience, whoever it is, will clap and bark like a seal and bestow upon you the likes of victory.


Arguing on Facebook has only one goal: To win the audience to your side.  Your opponent will never agree with you, and you cannot change their mind.  It's useless to try.  The only reason to do it is to plant the seeds in the minds of other readers that you're right.

And if you can't do that.  If you think for half a second that you ever want to be nice to this person again, then your job at this point is to take the high road, demand an apology for the insults, refuse to speak with someone that's going to resort to name-calling over politics, and then forget all about it.

Tell her to enjoy her $10 shitty big-mac made and served by robots

Contrary to popular liberal belief....people can make ends meet working for less than $15 an hour.

Most people that are bitching about the less than $15 an hour need to to look at their decision making.

Pretty sure they have the disposable income to buy smokes, drinks and what not.

If you do not have the skills, background/experience, or education to make ends meet with one job, get an additional job.

I worked three jobs (1 full and 2 part time) to make ends meet while I was going to school.  

This wanting $15 an hour for minimum wage is rediculous. It's nothing more than laziness and entitlement.  Get over yourself, work and EARN your keep.

How many hours a week makes no difference.

If the work someone does is not worth a monetary value of $15/hr plus all the other shit the govt makes employers pay for the employee, then that employee should not get $15 an hour.

Want to make more money, get a skill that is worth more. The vast majority of people can flip burgers and operate a cash register. Therefore the value is not much and never will be.

There are consequences for skipping school, doing drugs, and playing video games.

It's a very simple concept.

Scorched earth, I like it

Was just at LaGuardia airport, Delta terminals. Every restaurant there had an iPad for every seat. You ordered and paid from your iPad menu. Food was delivered within 10 or 15 minutes. This is the coming solution to $15/hr minimum wage in the food industry. People will lose their jobs and go on public assistance. Just the Dem's way of locking in another vote,

Ask him/her/it if she has a degree in economics.  When she says "no" tell her you only take economic advice from someone qualified to give it.  Then ask her if she takes medical advice from a politician, before she responds launch into an Obamacare tirade.

If you are making minimum and can't pay rent, get roommates.
If you are hungry, get a job at a restaurant.
No car? Public transportation. Or a bike.
Unhappy? Find another job.

Tell her FDR was right, burger flippers are only worth $11.00 per week

Minimum wage shouldn't exist, let the market decide what your skills are worth.

Tell her to work hard and save as much money as possible. She'll need it pretty soon when her $15.00/hour seven-dollar job is replaced by a machine.

I'm assured by these retards that you are completely wrong and it doesn't work like that...

These people honestly think that companies will be able to spit out $15/hour minimum wage without any repercussions whatsoever. They think that the ones that are currently making $15/hour will also have a wage increase, to "make it fair". They think employers can just walk out back and shake the money tree for higher wages.

I heard someones argument a couple weeks ago that went something like "If world-wide fast food chains like McDonald's can afford to pay that much in Europe, they can definitely be able to pay it here, and it is just greed that prevents them from doing so."

They usually don't have a response when you ask them if they know what a franchise is

This!

I'm waiting for the known socialist members to post in this thread.

Prices will exponentially rise to meet whatever arbitrary number is pulled out of a hat. Trickle up poverty. Everybody will be poorer.

Fuck, one can't live on $15 a hour. $150 per hour or no peace!!!!!!

If minimum wage doubles, I would expect my wage to double as well.  If not...then WTF!?!?!

I'm sure she does as that is usually what is at the center of most libtards arguments are "evil corporations"  "big business", "1%ers", etc......  What happens when MOST small to medium businesses have to close the doors when the owners have no money to live off of much less run the business with!!  I know a lot of small business owners, most live in modest homes and drive normal vehicles like everyone else.

$15 an hour isn't the solution.  It will result in the closure of small businesses as they close because of unprofitability and resulot in increased unemployment.  

The problem is that middle class or decent wage jobs have fled our shores and we can thank NAFTA (signed into law by Clinton).  You can only outsource so much before society falls from a middle class society capable of buying single family homes and realizing the middle class dream to a service industry where one competes against immigrant labor for minimum wage positions.  We have long reached that point.

American labor is uncompetitive when contrasted against the poor working conditions and slave labor of the third world.  The third world worker is paid pennies on the dollar his American counterpart once earned and his environment is destroyed in the process.  The corporations that were once American don't care as they've off-shored themselves, sheltering them from America's obnoxious income tax.  After all, why shouldn't they since they shed their national identities in pursuit of wealth.

Furthermore, the dollars earned have been greatly reduced in value.  Today's dollar is worth on two cents of what the 1914 dollar was worth.  You can boast you made more than your grandfather, but you can buy less.  He was able to work, pay for a house and car and grandmother could stay home to raise your father, aunts and uncles.  This was dying by the late eighties as inflation ensured that both spouses must work in order to attain the middle class dream.  Today even fewer newly turned worked aged Americans can even afford to leave home and we find ourselves returning to our roots of multi-generational families living under one household.  

She's right in not fighting each other.  Fight Congress. Since they are the scoundrels who allowed the decline to happen by their changes in legislation, throw those traitorous critters out.  Elect people who will reverse their laws (NAFTA, 0-Care, Pate-riot Act and its crotch groping Touch Some Arse, reinstate Glass-Steagall and undo everything Woody Wilson did),  It will be a slow, painful recovery that will take decades (we have to rebuild industry first) but it is possible for our grandchildren witness a rebirth of the American Dream.

I use the cost of a fast food hamburger as a guide. It costs about 1/2 hour of work at minimum wage, as do other items in the $3-$4 range in our area. What do these items cost in other areas with higher minimum wages?

Reasoning with an idiot is like trying to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.  

Fo time?


Link

She does not understand that you can make $15 an hour and still not be able to afford to eat. The wages go up the prices of goods and services go up too. You can have full employment and nothing to eat. Wages, like markets, depend on the desires and budgets of the consumer. To simply raise the minimum wage doesn't nothing to avoid the comensurate price and cost of living increases that will demolish the short lived and ill conceived gains.

everyone should have the opportunity to be able to sustain themselves on the job they work.  If people aren't bitching about people who take government help they are bitching about them wanting more money to be able to support themselves.   They work hard and work a full work week then they should be able be self sustaining.

You right, but if he's good, he can cause some libturds to stroke out and check out.  

It's looking like this is the only option...

Newsletter? Subscription page?

Correct.  And when all these prices go up, people that are in salaried positions are the ones that will take the hit.

 
If their salaried wages do not go up, but their cost for all their goods do....NOICE HUH.

Yay! Government link. The same people who said O-care would make health insurance affordable

Pretty much this.  If it is raised, I expect my wage to raise equally.

 

This wouldn't even be an issue if the government allowed people to look for better jobs.

Businesses are going to find a ways to reduce payroll.

In NY minimum wage is going up rapidly. My payroll only went up slightly, compared to last year, while the average employee's hourly pay went up at a bigger percentage.

In the UK it's £6.70/hr and a Big Mac is £2.69.
In Sweden it's 159 SEK/hr and a Big Mac is 44.85

Here's the Big Mac index:
http://www.statista.com/statistics/274326/big-mac-index-global-prices-for-a-big-mac/


So if they feel that their job doesn't pay enough to fund their lifestyle why don't they get a better job or move to a cheaper area?

Reply: Educate yourself:



http://www.amazon.com/dp/0470879483/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=32574267438&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6796535987227037287&hvpone=14.95&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_3hqnujvim1_b

From a monetary standpoint, if everyone received the same raise, then inflation would be equally present across the board making any raise at any level almost completely ineffective. Instead, minimum wage serves the purpose of only raising the standard of living of those making minimum wage while decreasing the purchasing power of wages earned by those earning more. It is simply another mechanism whereby wealth can be redistributed.

It seems she couldn't handle it guys...

If they raise it to $15 what will all those unemployed 7.25 an hour people do?

Tell her to read Thomas Sowell's book Basic Economics: A Citizen's Guide to the Economy

From the Book

“Unfortunately, the real minimum wage is always zero, regardless of the laws, and that is the wage that many workers receive in the wake of the creation or escalation of a government-mandated minimum wage, because they lose their jobs or fail to find jobs when they enter the labor force. Making it illegal to pay less than a given amount does not make a worker’s productivity worth that amount—and, if it is not, that worker is unlikely to be employed.”

Right now, the threshold for any federal government benefits is $32k/yr.

If you make more than that, no bennies for you.

Benefits start to taper off above about $12k, and it's relatively linear up to 32 where it falls to zero.

State welfare may be different.

Current federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr.  Again, this may vary by state.

A full welfare benefits package, between housing, medical, food, etc.  is "worth" about $30k/yr for a family of 4.  "Family" in this case means a mom, two kids, and a baby daddy.  Or two.

A full welfare recipient can work up to about 30 hours a week at minimum wage before they see their benefits fall off.  Note that the threshold for Obamacare is 32hr/wk.  Their employers don't want them for more than that because it fucks up the payroll, and the employees don't want to work more than that because it fucks up their bennies.

Now, if we make minimum wage 15/hr, suddenly the threshold drops to half that - 15 hours a week.  Again, employees won't want more hours because they'll start losing welfare benefits.

So, if you take a typical fast food restaurant, where many employees have their benefits subsidized by the federal government, and double the wages, the only response is to cut in half the number of people on each shift.  Employment stays the same, hours get cut in half, shift size gets cut in half, and the labor gap gets taken up by automation.  Automated order/pay stations, more automated food prep, food arriving to the store in an even more prepared fashion than it already is, that sort of thing.


Food is incredibly cheap now, compared to the labor to put it in a bag and hand it over the counter.  Burger King is selling a 10pc nuggets for $1.49.  Right now, go check.  No shit, it's crazy.  I remember when Wendy's broke the $1 for a 5pc threshold and it was the best deal going.  And that was 20 years ago, when money was worth a lot more.  The food part is fucking cheap, and it's only going to get cheaper.  Fast food is functionally a semi-automated vending machine as it is; it'll be a snap to just add more automation.  Yes, you'll always need a few people to keep it running.


So when you talk about a "living wage," what you're really talking about is more leisure time for minimum wage workers.  They don't want to get paid more because it'll fuck their bennies.

If they work 40hr a week and earn $30k/yr, boom, all of a sudden they're ineligible for welfare, paying taxes like the rest of us, and they're working more.  Oh, and their level of disposable income stays the same, because taxes and benefits (that figure is about $1k/mo for disposable income, and it's functionally flat until you start earning more than $55k or so).  

Which do you think is more likely to happen?  What would you do?  Would you work 35% more hours and get off welfare, and keep your disposable income the same?  Or would you just work 50% fewer hours and use your newfound leisure time for...  ?