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Link Posted: 10/3/2015 4:50:12 AM EDT
[#1]
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Quoted:


considering the condescending "we banned guns and we don't have shootings anymore" lecturing from our liberal aussies, a bit of schadenfraude flooded my mind.
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The only way to stop a person with a gun is a person WITH a gun.  
How are your strict firearm laws working out there fucktards???

Get fucked
 


https://media.giphy.com/media/Z3XWfCRhpPvqw/giphy.gif


He didn't offend me. Shrugs


considering the condescending "we banned guns and we don't have shootings anymore" lecturing from our liberal aussies, a bit of schadenfraude flooded my mind.

Link Posted: 10/3/2015 4:50:46 AM EDT
[#2]
Page 2?

ETA Missed it.
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 4:52:15 AM EDT
[#3]


Not possible. The President said so.


Link Posted: 10/3/2015 5:58:54 AM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
Guy got shot in the back at "point blank" range.  He never knew it was coming.

Soon after, the gunman was made into a colander by nearby police while exchanging fire.  Apparently the police that took him out responded quickly and were so adamant on taking him out that they didn't take cover.


Witnesses said they saw the guy with the gun but thought it was a toy since the guy looked so young.


Gun laws wouldn't have changed a thing in this case.  None of you can tell me that you would have stopped someone shooting you in the back while you were walking out of work.


I do know much more than the news is reporting, but I can't say what I know since it could potentially compromise things (my sources are from within the police).  What I will say is that it's obvious that he didn't work alone.


So far there have been 2 acts of terrorism here in the last year or so.  Both have one thing in common.
View Quote


Yes those two acts of terrorism do have a common denominator:  Your gun laws were passed specifically to prevent this from happening and they failed just as the logical, rational people said they would when your laws were enacted.  

The point is not that a person who was shot in the back may or may not have been able to respond a different way had your laws been different.

The point is your people traded significant freedoms for the promise of preventing and reducing incidents such as this when any person with a brain in their head could have told you the truly determined don't give a damn what your laws may say.





Link Posted: 10/3/2015 6:05:31 AM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:I kinda knew that but this whole things really fucks me off. Fucked gun laws that just make it hard for the reasonable majority have NOTHING to do with this situation. A Radicalised teen immigrant from Iran living in in shithole Sydney walks into a police station and kills a civilian IT worker then gets filled with holes from the cops while yelling Allah....its all fucked.

Its a muslim issue not a gun control issue.
View Quote


The fact that person was able to get a firearm and then use it to kill someone has everything to do with your nation's gun laws and the logic behind their very existence.

Your people traded large chunks of their liberty for a promise from your government they knew they were unable to keep.    

Your immigration problem is not terribly dissimilar from your firearms problem:  the people running your government have **** for brains and intentions that are not in the best interest of their constituents.

You don't have a Muslim problem and you don't have a gun problem:  you have a government problem.

Link Posted: 10/3/2015 6:52:46 AM EDT
[#6]

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Quoted:
Yes those two acts of terrorism do have a common denominator:  Your gun laws were passed specifically to prevent this from happening and they failed just as the logical, rational people said they would when your laws were enacted.  



The point is not that a person who was shot in the back may or may not have been able to respond a different way had your laws been different.



The point is your people traded significant freedoms for the promise of preventing and reducing incidents such as this when any person with a brain in their head could have told you the truly determined don't give a damn what your laws may say.




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Quoted:



Quoted:

Guy got shot in the back at "point blank" range.  He never knew it was coming.



Soon after, the gunman was made into a colander by nearby police while exchanging fire.  Apparently the police that took him out responded quickly and were so adamant on taking him out that they didn't take cover.





Witnesses said they saw the guy with the gun but thought it was a toy since the guy looked so young.





Gun laws wouldn't have changed a thing in this case.  None of you can tell me that you would have stopped someone shooting you in the back while you were walking out of work.





I do know much more than the news is reporting, but I can't say what I know since it could potentially compromise things (my sources are from within the police).  What I will say is that it's obvious that he didn't work alone.





So far there have been 2 acts of terrorism here in the last year or so.  Both have one thing in common.





Yes those two acts of terrorism do have a common denominator:  Your gun laws were passed specifically to prevent this from happening and they failed just as the logical, rational people said they would when your laws were enacted.  



The point is not that a person who was shot in the back may or may not have been able to respond a different way had your laws been different.



The point is your people traded significant freedoms for the promise of preventing and reducing incidents such as this when any person with a brain in their head could have told you the truly determined don't give a damn what your laws may say.








 
So you're missing the point that it doesn't matter how armed the society is, this wouldn't have changed a damn thing.




Nobody said there wouldn't be terror attacks when the laws were enacted.  The last time I checked, gun laws in the US haven't stopped terror attacks there either.
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 6:53:20 AM EDT
[#7]

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Quoted:
The fact that person was able to get a firearm and then use it to kill someone has everything to do with your nation's gun laws and the logic behind their very existence.



Your people traded large chunks of their liberty for a promise from your government they knew they were unable to keep.    



Your immigration problem is not terribly dissimilar from your firearms problem:  the people running your government have **** for brains and intentions that are not in the best interest of their constituents.



You don't have a Muslim problem and you don't have a gun problem:  you have a government problem.



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Quoted:I kinda knew that but this whole things really fucks me off. Fucked gun laws that just make it hard for the reasonable majority have NOTHING to do with this situation. A Radicalised teen immigrant from Iran living in in shithole Sydney walks into a police station and kills a civilian IT worker then gets filled with holes from the cops while yelling Allah....its all fucked.



Its a muslim issue not a gun control issue.




The fact that person was able to get a firearm and then use it to kill someone has everything to do with your nation's gun laws and the logic behind their very existence.



Your people traded large chunks of their liberty for a promise from your government they knew they were unable to keep.    



Your immigration problem is not terribly dissimilar from your firearms problem:  the people running your government have **** for brains and intentions that are not in the best interest of their constituents.



You don't have a Muslim problem and you don't have a gun problem:  you have a government problem.







 
An American making fun of Australia's migration policy.




lol
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 6:54:32 AM EDT
[#8]

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Quoted:





  An American making fun of Australia's migration policy.





lol

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Quoted:


Quoted:I kinda knew that but this whole things really fucks me off. Fucked gun laws that just make it hard for the reasonable majority have NOTHING to do with this situation. A Radicalised teen immigrant from Iran living in in shithole Sydney walks into a police station and kills a civilian IT worker then gets filled with holes from the cops while yelling Allah....its all fucked.



Its a muslim issue not a gun control issue.




The fact that person was able to get a firearm and then use it to kill someone has everything to do with your nation's gun laws and the logic behind their very existence.



Your people traded large chunks of their liberty for a promise from your government they knew they were unable to keep.    



Your immigration problem is not terribly dissimilar from your firearms problem:  the people running your government have **** for brains and intentions that are not in the best interest of their constituents.



You don't have a Muslim problem and you don't have a gun problem:  you have a government problem.





  An American making fun of Australia's migration policy.





lol

Privilege, recognize it.

 
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 6:55:23 AM EDT
[#9]
but...but...guns are banned there.....

eta:beat to it almost verbatim... i gotta start reading the threads before i respond
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 6:57:31 AM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:
Once again, Obama makes an ass of himself. Here he was yapping on the news about 12 hours ago, ranting about how this kind of thing doesn't happen in nations with strict gun control laws. Yet here we are, a half day later, with a mass shooting in Australia, a nation with very strict gun control laws. Obama is as much a bumbling idiot when it comes to gun violence as he is on matters of foreign and domestic policy. The guy is a walking clusterfuck.
View Quote



You really ought to wait and see what has happened before going off one.



Link Posted: 10/3/2015 7:03:49 AM EDT
[#11]
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And this is right after Fuckface gives his little "this doesn't happen in other industrialized nations" speech.
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And this is right after Fuckface gives his little "this doesn't happen in other industrialized nations" speech.


Here's a very good article addressing that claim objectively.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun/22/barack-obama/barack-obama-correct-mass-killings-dont-happen-oth/

We compared mass shooting incidents across countries is to calculate the number of victims per capita -- that is, adjusted for the country’s total population size.

Calculating it this way shows the United States in the upper half of the list of 11 countries, ranking higher than Australia, Canada, China, England, France, Germany and Mexico.

Still, the U.S. doesn’t rank No. 1. At 0.15 mass shooting fatalities per 100,000 people, the U.S. had a lower rate than Norway (1.3 per 100,000), Finland (0.34 per 100,000) and Switzerland (1.7 per 100,000).


It's interesting how the Breivik shootings alone, in light of the small population of Norway, put Norway near the top of the per capita listings.

I find this bit interesting as well:

Finally, their database doesn’t include acts generally considered to be terrorism, such as the attack in Paris on the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo.

"If these were included, we are likely to see something much different statistically as there have been a number of very high-profile terrorist attacks in Europe, some including the use of firearms, that are excluded from the current analysis," she said. But in all likelihood, this would only make the case against Obama’s claim stronger.

...

The data shows that it clearly happens in other countries, and in at least three of them, there’s evidence that the rate of killings in mass-shooting events occurred at a higher per-capita rate than in the United States between 2000 and 2014. The only partial support for Obama’s claim is that the per-capita gun-incident fatality rate in the United States does rank in the top one-third of the list of 11 countries studied. On balance, we rate the claim Mostly False.
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 7:05:45 AM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:
The only way to stop a person with a gun is a person WITH a gun.  
How are your strict firearm laws working out there fucktards???
View Quote



1) Someone with a gun did stop the shooter.

2) You have less strict firearms laws, and yet you still have far more mass shootings, a far higher rate of gun violence per 100,000 people than most first world nations.


See how day it was to turn that around use it against you?

If you are going to make stupid and abusive comments without considering the implications of those comments then you are going to get your arse handed to you.

I appreciate that the horrible events of what happened on Thursday in Orgeon will naturally have people on edge, and the concerns over what this means for US Gun ownership is completely
understandable, but attacking other nations for their gun laws is not only utterly irrelevant, it demonstrates a level of emotional immaturity that is unbecoming.
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 7:08:13 AM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:



You really ought to wait and see what has happened before going off one.



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Quoted:
Once again, Obama makes an ass of himself. Here he was yapping on the news about 12 hours ago, ranting about how this kind of thing doesn't happen in nations with strict gun control laws. Yet here we are, a half day later, with a mass shooting in Australia, a nation with very strict gun control laws. Obama is as much a bumbling idiot when it comes to gun violence as he is on matters of foreign and domestic policy. The guy is a walking clusterfuck.



You really ought to wait and see what has happened before going off one.





And Obama didn't exactly wait till facts were known about the recent Oregon killings before blaming it on guns.

This is not the first time Obama has done this. As my ink shows, he's been called out on this before.

If an illegal immigrant commits a heinous crime in the States, folks like Obama go out of their way to downplay this, lest it play into an unsavory agenda. So what does this tell you when Obama fixates on guns?

Link Posted: 10/3/2015 7:10:34 AM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:


And Obama didn't exactly wait till facts were known about the recent Oregon killings before blaming it on guns.

This is not the first time Obama has done this. As my ink shows, he's been called out on this before.

If an illegal immigrant commits a heinous crime in the states, folks like Obama go out of their way to downplay this, lest it play into an unsavory agenda. So what does this tell you when Obama fixates on guns?

View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Once again, Obama makes an ass of himself. Here he was yapping on the news about 12 hours ago, ranting about how this kind of thing doesn't happen in nations with strict gun control laws. Yet here we are, a half day later, with a mass shooting in Australia, a nation with very strict gun control laws. Obama is as much a bumbling idiot when it comes to gun violence as he is on matters of foreign and domestic policy. The guy is a walking clusterfuck.



You really ought to wait and see what has happened before going off one.





And Obama didn't exactly wait till facts were known about the recent Oregon killings before blaming it on guns.

This is not the first time Obama has done this. As my ink shows, he's been called out on this before.

If an illegal immigrant commits a heinous crime in the states, folks like Obama go out of their way to downplay this, lest it play into an unsavory agenda. So what does this tell you when Obama fixates on guns?



Let Obama trip over his own dick if he wants to.  That's his problem and the more he does it the more foolish he looks.

That's not a reason for folks here to do the same.

Link Posted: 10/3/2015 9:50:38 AM EDT
[#15]
I see their restrictive gun laws are working as intended...................
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 9:53:18 AM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
And this is right after Fuckface gives his little "this doesn't happen in other industrialized nations" speech.
View Quote



Yup.  Im sure bag-o-dicks will respond to this.....
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 9:55:35 AM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:

  So you're missing the point that it doesn't matter how armed the society is, this wouldn't have changed a damn thing.


Nobody said there wouldn't be terror attacks when the laws were enacted.  The last time I checked, gun laws in the US haven't stopped terror attacks there either.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Guy got shot in the back at "point blank" range.  He never knew it was coming.

Soon after, the gunman was made into a colander by nearby police while exchanging fire.  Apparently the police that took him out responded quickly and were so adamant on taking him out that they didn't take cover.


Witnesses said they saw the guy with the gun but thought it was a toy since the guy looked so young.


Gun laws wouldn't have changed a thing in this case.  None of you can tell me that you would have stopped someone shooting you in the back while you were walking out of work.


I do know much more than the news is reporting, but I can't say what I know since it could potentially compromise things (my sources are from within the police).  What I will say is that it's obvious that he didn't work alone.


So far there have been 2 acts of terrorism here in the last year or so.  Both have one thing in common.


Yes those two acts of terrorism do have a common denominator:  Your gun laws were passed specifically to prevent this from happening and they failed just as the logical, rational people said they would when your laws were enacted.  

The point is not that a person who was shot in the back may or may not have been able to respond a different way had your laws been different.

The point is your people traded significant freedoms for the promise of preventing and reducing incidents such as this when any person with a brain in their head could have told you the truly determined don't give a damn what your laws may say.






  So you're missing the point that it doesn't matter how armed the society is, this wouldn't have changed a damn thing.


Nobody said there wouldn't be terror attacks when the laws were enacted.  The last time I checked, gun laws in the US haven't stopped terror attacks there either.



That's not what we are saying. What we are saying is that the new restrictive gun laws did not prevent this, as was predicted. Australians are no safer with your more restrictive laws than they were before them.  It is highly illegal for a 15 year old to get his hands on a handgun--but there he was.
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 10:01:34 AM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
The only way to stop a person with a gun is a person WITH a gun.  
How are your strict firearm laws working out there fucktards???
View Quote


Wasn't the community college not a "Gun Free Zone" as originally reported?

How did that work out for them?
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 10:05:48 AM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:



Two (2) people are dead total, which includes the shooter.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Once again, Obama makes an ass of himself. Here he was yapping on the news about 12 hours ago, ranting about how this kind of thing doesn't happen in nations with strict gun control laws. Yet here we are, a half day later, with a mass shooting in Australia, a nation with very strict gun control laws. Obama is as much a bumbling idiot when it comes to gun violence as he is on matters of foreign and domestic policy. The guy is a walking clusterfuck.



Two (2) people are dead total, which includes the shooter.

According to Leftists, if 4 or more people are shot (not killed, SHOT), it is a mass shooting. So, we will have to find out if these officers got hit in a vest or anything.

Furthermore, it was CLEARLY his intention to shoot more than 1 innocent person. And it WAS stopped by an armed individual AND it happened after Our Glorious Leader raised this particular nation up as a bastion of "it doesn't happen" (despite the fact that it has and does there).


Condolences to the families of the Fallen.
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 10:07:12 AM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:



1) Someone with a gun did stop the shooter.

2) You have less strict firearms laws, and yet you still have far more mass shootings, a far higher rate of gun violence per 100,000 people than most first world nations.


See how day it was to turn that around use it against you?

If you are going to make stupid and abusive comments without considering the implications of those comments then you are going to get your arse handed to you.

I appreciate that the horrible events of what happened on Thursday in Orgeon will naturally have people on edge, and the concerns over what this means for US Gun ownership is completely
understandable, but attacking other nations for their gun laws is not only utterly irrelevant, it demonstrates a level of emotional immaturity that is unbecoming.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
The only way to stop a person with a gun is a person WITH a gun.  
How are your strict firearm laws working out there fucktards???



1) Someone with a gun did stop the shooter.

2) You have less strict firearms laws, and yet you still have far more mass shootings, a far higher rate of gun violence per 100,000 people than most first world nations.


See how day it was to turn that around use it against you?

If you are going to make stupid and abusive comments without considering the implications of those comments then you are going to get your arse handed to you.

I appreciate that the horrible events of what happened on Thursday in Orgeon will naturally have people on edge, and the concerns over what this means for US Gun ownership is completely
understandable, but attacking other nations for their gun laws is not only utterly irrelevant, it demonstrates a level of emotional immaturity that is unbecoming.



I would agree that attacking other nations may be irrelevant, but we wouldn't bring it up at all if said nations were not held up by the left as examples to emulate. If the Australian prime minister and Obama had not brought up Australia's laws, we would not be talking about them right now.
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 10:08:47 AM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:


Wasn't the community college not a "Gun Free Zone" as originally reported?

How did that work out for them?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The only way to stop a person with a gun is a person WITH a gun.  
How are your strict firearm laws working out there fucktards???


Wasn't the community college not a "Gun Free Zone" as originally reported?

How did that work out for them?

Thank you for furthering his point.
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 10:12:04 AM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:

Thank you for furthering his point.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The only way to stop a person with a gun is a person WITH a gun.  
How are your strict firearm laws working out there fucktards???


Wasn't the community college not a "Gun Free Zone" as originally reported?

How did that work out for them?

Thank you for furthering his point.


I never said I wasn't.
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 10:14:01 AM EDT
[#23]
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 10:24:01 AM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:
Guy got shot in the back at "point blank" range.  He never knew it was coming.

Soon after, the gunman was made into a colander by nearby police while exchanging fire.  Apparently the police that took him out responded quickly and were so adamant on taking him out that they didn't take cover.


Witnesses said they saw the guy with the gun but thought it was a toy since the guy looked so young.


Gun laws wouldn't have changed a thing in this case.  None of you can tell me that you would have stopped someone shooting you in the back while you were walking out of work.


I do know much more than the news is reporting, but I can't say what I know since it could potentially compromise things (my sources are from within the police).  What I will say is that it's obvious that he didn't work alone.


So far there have been 2 acts of terrorism here in the last year or so.  Both have one thing in common.
View Quote


See good Aussies with guns solve problems.
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 3:03:28 PM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:
So you're missing the point that it doesn't matter how armed the society is, this wouldn't have changed a damn thing.
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So you're missing the point that it doesn't matter how armed the society is, this wouldn't have changed a damn thing.


That isn't the point of this exercise.    Of course that man could have had 3 belt fed machine guns strapped on his body and yet being shot in the back precluded his being able to respond.   That isn't the point.

Your laws exist, right now, to prevent someone from getting a gun and killing people.   Those laws failed.



John Howard's own words on the matter:  



...
His understated way says he isn’t a partisan player anymore, well, not in this non-election year, anyway. And perhaps Mr Howard’s most enduring legacy has nothing to do with economic credentials or party divides. Perhaps it was set six weeks into his 11-year rule, when he was untested, and when he boasted glasses and (mostly) brown hair, and when the bywords of the Howard era – GST, Tampa and economic prosperity – had yet to be forged.

“I still get people who stop me and say that was the best thing you ever did,” he says of his gun laws.

Mr Howard, a practical politician, makes it sound simple.

There was no option. Port Arthur, at the time, represented the largest civilian massacre by one person. It was two months after 17 died in the Dunblane school shooting in Scotland.

Mr Howard can still recall then British PM John Major’s message of sympathy.

A ban on semiautomatic weapons, as used by Martin Bryant at Port Arthur, and all automatic weapons, was “just the right thing to do”.

Yet it wasn’t simple at all. Gun laws were state laws. ­Decent people would lose liberties they’d long enjoyed. And gun owners, especially in the bush, were generally conservative voters. Advisers told Mr Howard he was “biting off more than I could chew”.

“There’s never any political mileage in gratuitously ­declaring war on your own followers,” he says. “That’s madness. You only antagonise them if the cause of the antagonism is in the national interest. And this clearly was.”

By the night of his Tasmania visit in 1996, Mr Howard had flagged his intention. His chief adviser, Grahame Morris, offered to background the media if Mr Howard did not intend to pursue full bans.

Mr Howard told him not to, that he did not care how “rocky and difficult” the path ahead. He fronted up to speak to “grumpy” rural shooters. His one “mistake”, he says, was while addressing a Sale rally. Police had warned of a death threat and Mr Morris had told Mr Howard: “How am I going to explain it to [wife] Janette if it happens?”

Mr Howard wore a bulletproof vest, as advised, and it bulged under his jacket like a spare tyre. Crowd members later said the sight of it enraged them.

“I never did it again,” Mr Howard says. “I never felt threatened.”

At the same time, Mr Howard was being accosted for other reasons. On Sydney streets he would be greeted on his daily walk with comments such as: “I’ve never voted for you in my life and I’m never likely to but I agree with you on this.”

He let it be known he would push the issue to a referendum if the states did not agree – believing a referendum would vindicate him. A gun buyback was announced. A levy would be applied after a “five second” discussion with treasurer Peter Costello. More than 700,000 firearms, an estimated fifth of a national stockpile, were destroyed.

“The footage of all those guns being collected and crushed was terrific,” Mr Howard says.


The new laws were devised, debated and implemented in less than four months. Outraged gun-owners flooded the media at the start of the hand-in process. A decade later, shooters still expressed “disgust” at a “kneejerk” reaction to a crazed act.

Even now, some tell Mr Howard about the prized possession they had to give up. He waves away the gripes, saying there “was no alternative”.

For Mr Howard, in the numbness of 1996, change was a path he was obliged to steer.

“The country was reeling, it really was reeling in disbelief,” he says. “And I’m sure it would have felt let down if I hadn’t had a go.”

The plainest of statistics appear to bear out the effort.

Nationally, there had been 13 mass shootings in the 18 years before the 1996 reforms. There had been none since.

Mr Howard bats away a question about whether his handling of Port Arthur ­defined, as one commentator has suggested, the rest of his prime ministership. That’s for others to judge.

As for personal political achievements? “Every time people talk about my legacy, they mention guns,” he says.


People "just had to" give up their property and their rights because some maniac decided to murder people in cold blood.    Why?  Because "never again."   Well never again keeps on happening except your politicians plug their ears with their fingers while shouting "But... but... only X people died so it's not that bad!"

Here is but one example of such logic and reasoning:   After Port Arthur - Issues of Gun Control in Australia.  

...The events at Port Arthur have focussed the attention of all Australians on whether and how such occurrences can be prevented. But there are other reasons to consider anti-violence measures, including gun control. While mass killings are horrific events they are also relatively rare occurrences and our attention should not be diverted from violence that more commonly occurs in the community. The tragedy at Port Arthur should stimulate community debate and political action about violence prevention strategies in general, as well firearms laws in particular.    ...

It has been estimated that 84 per cent of victims in mass killings between 1987 and 1993 were killed by a licensed gun holder, while 86 per cent of the victims were reportedly killed by a person with no recorded history of violent crime or mental illness.(6)

The recent mass killing at Port Arthur, Tasmania, which left 35 people dead has sparked understandable concern about firearms in Australia. It is important to remember, however, that firearms are also significant contributors to deaths by accident, suicide and in individual killings - in particular, domestic homicides. Firearms are important contributors to death and injury in two ways. First, in terms of their availability and second, because they are lethal. The National Committee on Violence concluded:

The vast majority of firearms homicides are unplanned and impulsive, and in all likelihood would not occur if such a lethal weapon were not to hand. The availability of a firearm in these circumstances makes death a far greater likelihood, for research has demonstrated that the death rate for victims assaulted by guns is several times that of those assaulted with lethal intent by knives or other weapons.(7)
International experience appears to support this finding and the view that the amount of violent death in the community is related to gun ownership
. One study, based on a sample of 18 countries concluded:

Substantial correlations were found between gun ownership and gun-related as well as total suicide and homicide rates. Widespread gun ownership has not been found to reduce the likelihood of fatal events committed with other means. Thus, people do not turn to knives and other potentially lethal instruments less often when more guns are available, but more guns usually means more victims of suicide and homicide.(8)

...

The ICCPR provides (Article 6):

1.Every human being has the inherent right to life. This right shall be protected by law. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his life.
The ICCPR is one of the three central parts of the UN's Bill of Human Rights and this particular provision is a reaffirmation of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights' Article 3 which states that 'Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.'(32)

There is a plausible argument that these provisions could form the legal basis on which to justify gun laws directed at guns the specific purpose of which is to kill people. The argument would be tenuous but is nevertheless viable. Furthermore the tenor of the Human Rights Committee's General Comment on this Article is more categorical than most of its General Comments. They exhort States to take active steps to protect the right enshrined in Article 6,(33) saying that States parties should take 'specific and effective measures' to protect the right to life - a right which 'has been too often narrowly interpreted'.

...

While there are no multilateral treaties which deal directly with the issue of the regulation of gun ownership, there are bodies within the United Nations which have expressed views dealing explicitly with gun ownership and which are also concerned at the issue of violence more generally. The Congress on the Prevention of Crime and the Treatment of Offenders, for instance, has recommended that Member States take the necessary steps to control urban violence by limiting and controlling access to 'weapons, including through international co-operation'.(36)

...


Quoted:Nobody said there wouldn't be terror attacks when the laws were enacted.  The last time I checked, gun laws in the US haven't stopped terror attacks there either.


Laws do not exist to stop or prevent anything and any person or politician who says otherwise is trying to sell you something.   That is not why laws are passed because that is not how laws work.    Laws, in and of themselves, cannot stop any determined person from doing anything.   THAT IS THE POINT YOU ARE MISSING.

This terrorist used a firearm to kill someone.

Many of your laws were passed in the wake of a nut job killing somewhere on the order of 35 +/- people specifically to prevent such a thing from happening.      Your politicans were told those laws wouldn't do a damn thing to prevent a recurrence of some nutjob with a perceived grievance kicking off and taking people with him.

A teenage nut job just killed a person in cold blood is yet another example those people were right and your people gave up their damn rights for absolutely NOTHING.    
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 3:08:29 PM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:
An American making fun of Australia's migration policy.  lol
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I have not made fun of anybody in this thread and I have no intention to do so.

If you cannot grasp the simple concept I have laid at your feet then I cannot help you.

By all means, continue to sit by and do nothing while your Government strips you of your freedoms while shoving a ram rod up your corn hole.

As an America, I have the unique experience of having been party to such an arrangement my entire life so I know what I am looking at when I see it.  
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 3:12:31 PM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:


Tactless.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The only way to stop a person with a gun is a person WITH a gun.  
How are your strict firearm laws working out there fucktards???


Tactless.



Very.
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 3:20:27 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
but australia banned guns after the 1996 massacre. They have not had one single event since.
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It actually eliminated all death.
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 3:25:47 PM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:

  An American making fun of Australia's migration policy.


lol
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I noticed that.
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 3:32:01 PM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



I noticed that.
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How on earth can you notice something that didn't happen?    
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 8:36:00 PM EDT
[#31]
Technically, the gun laws were not there to stop terrorism.  If you want to argue that gun laws stop terrorism, then look no further to your own country to see how that goes.  This event is simply a form of terrorism, nothing more.  No gun laws would have changed this event from happening and it doesn't matter if the victim was an armed arfcommer.  Shot in the back at "point blank" range won't save you nomatter who you are.  Gun laws didn't save Chris Kyle either.



The shooter was 15.  Even if he was in the US, he would have obtained the weapon illegally.




If you guys want to debate gun laws, then you may as well choose an event that is more debatable, like school shootings etc.  I'm not a fan of our gun laws, but some of you are the exact people who people here make fun of because your arguments are ridiculous.  Think rationally here because this is a case of terrorism.




If this was a bombing instead, I'm sure some of you will go on about how "Australia's laws are meant to stop bombs, and look how that went!" and "only the criminals will have bombs" and "if someone else had a bomb, they would have stopped this", etc.  Maybe I should turn ultimate left wing and say "If the US banned pressure cookers..." or "If the US banned planes..." but I'm not a fucking retard.
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 8:36:52 PM EDT
[#32]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The fact that person was able to get a firearm and then use it to kill someone has everything to do with your nation's gun laws and the logic behind their very existence.



Your people traded large chunks of their liberty for a promise from your government they knew they were unable to keep.    



Your immigration problem is not terribly dissimilar from your firearms problem:  the people running your government have **** for brains and intentions that are not in the best interest of their constituents.



You don't have a Muslim problem and you don't have a gun problem:  you have a government problem.



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Quoted:



Quoted:I kinda knew that but this whole things really fucks me off. Fucked gun laws that just make it hard for the reasonable majority have NOTHING to do with this situation. A Radicalised teen immigrant from Iran living in in shithole Sydney walks into a police station and kills a civilian IT worker then gets filled with holes from the cops while yelling Allah....its all fucked.



Its a muslim issue not a gun control issue.




The fact that person was able to get a firearm and then use it to kill someone has everything to do with your nation's gun laws and the logic behind their very existence.



Your people traded large chunks of their liberty for a promise from your government they knew they were unable to keep.    



Your immigration problem is not terribly dissimilar from your firearms problem:  the people running your government have **** for brains and intentions that are not in the best interest of their constituents.



You don't have a Muslim problem and you don't have a gun problem:  you have a government problem.







 
I'm gonna quote this again.



People in glass houses...
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 8:39:33 PM EDT
[#33]
As for immigration policies, I'll leave these here








Link Posted: 10/3/2015 9:56:56 PM EDT
[#34]
Someone is a bit butthurt.
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 10:54:08 PM EDT
[#35]
I think we're missing a point.  Had this nut attacked a school he could have killed a dozen before he was stopped.  But he attacked an armed group and was gunned down after killing only one person, and that person was caught completely unawares.





Link Posted: 10/3/2015 11:06:10 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Technically, the gun laws were not there to stop terrorism.  If you want to argue that gun laws stop terrorism, then look no further to your own country to see how that goes.  This event is simply a form of terrorism, nothing more.  No gun laws would have changed this event from happening and it doesn't matter if the victim was an armed arfcommer.  Shot in the back at "point blank" range won't save you nomatter who you are.  Gun laws didn't save Chris Kyle either.

The shooter was 15.  Even if he was in the US, he would have obtained the weapon illegally.

If you guys want to debate gun laws, then you may as well choose an event that is more debatable, like school shootings etc.  I'm not a fan of our gun laws, but some of you are the exact people who people here make fun of because your arguments are ridiculous.  Think rationally here because this is a case of terrorism.


If this was a bombing instead, I'm sure some of you will go on about how "Australia's laws are meant to stop bombs, and look how that went!" and "only the criminals will have bombs" and "if someone else had a bomb, they would have stopped this", etc.  Maybe I should turn ultimate left wing and say "If the US banned pressure cookers..." or "If the US banned planes..." but I'm not a fucking retard.


View Quote



(1) Are you seriously arguing that your politicians passed laws stripping you of some and infringing further on the rest of your and your fellow citizen's rights regarding firearms to prevent so-called "Gun crime" from ordinary criminals but not terrorists?!     Did you seriously just say such a thing?      

(2) Nowhere have I said, in this thread, that a change in your gun laws would have prevented what occured.    In fact I said the opposite when I said the following:


"The point is not that a person who was shot in the back may or may not have been able to respond a different way had your laws been different.

The point is your people traded significant freedoms for the promise of preventing and reducing incidents such as this when any person with a brain in their head could have told you the truly determined don't give a damn what your laws may say.


...

That isn't the point of this exercise. Of course that man could have had 3 belt fed machine guns strapped on his body and yet being shot in the back precluded his being able to respond. That isn't the point.

Your laws exist, right now, to prevent someone from getting a gun and killing people. Those laws failed. "


Please read what I have written before you respond to points I have not made.


(3) I have not, do not, and will not argue that laws, anywhere, stop anything because I do not believe that to be true.  I actually said this in my last post where I said the following:   "Laws do not exist to stop or prevent anything and any person or politician who says otherwise is trying to sell you something. That is not why laws are passed because that is not how laws work. Laws, in and of themselves, cannot stop any determined person from doing anything. THAT IS THE POINT YOU ARE MISSING. "

You are arguing against a point I have not made and a position I have not taken while you have ignored the entire substance of what I have said in clear, concise English.

(4)   You are attacking points I have not made and positions I have not taken as if you have not read a single sentence I have written.



Let me spell out my position for you as clearly as I can:  

- I do not believe any laws of any kind would have or could have prevented what happened.

-  I do believe your citizens were promised that if they surrendered some of their freedom they would be protected from or enjoy a world where events such as this would be less and less frequent.  

- I do not believe laws can protect good people from evil people and that your people trading their liberty for the promise of something that can never be fully delivered was a foolish choice.


Link Posted: 10/3/2015 11:12:02 PM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

  I'm gonna quote this again.

People in glass houses...
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I am glad you quoted it I just wish you would have READ it before you posted.

Just because I can admit that you have a problem with your government does not mean my government is somehow perfect or has their affairs in order.

If anything I have the unique position of being an American where I expect every single politician I have, from dog catcher to President of the Untied States, to lie to my face while kissing a baby and trying lift the contents of my wallet from me before a pair of Government paid thugs shake me upside down for any remnants I may have.

I have seen my government and the state governments do to me and my countrymen what your government is doing to you.    

Keep that in mind in the future and perhaps you will take a little extra time and READ what I have written before you decide to respond to insults I have not made, positions I have not taken, and points I have not presented.


Link Posted: 10/3/2015 11:15:25 PM EDT
[#38]
If I offended anyone with my earlier comments, I am sorry.  What I said I said quickly as this topic pisses me off to no end.  
I am saddened that a Brother in Blue died, and am very happy that the shooter was stopped without any other bloodshed.
That said, anyone who tries to ban guns to prevent violence is an idiot. Anyone who believes that (banning) is an idiot.   Guns are not the problem.

Work on the mental health issues.  Don't import your problems.

Dont.  Blame.  Guns.
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 11:22:03 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Here's a very good article addressing that claim objectively.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun/22/barack-obama/barack-obama-correct-mass-killings-dont-happen-oth/



It's interesting how the Breivik shootings alone, in light of the small population of Norway, put Norway near the top of the per capita listings.

I find this bit interesting as well:

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Quoted:
Quoted:
And this is right after Fuckface gives his little "this doesn't happen in other industrialized nations" speech.


Here's a very good article addressing that claim objectively.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun/22/barack-obama/barack-obama-correct-mass-killings-dont-happen-oth/

We compared mass shooting incidents across countries is to calculate the number of victims per capita -- that is, adjusted for the country’s total population size.

Calculating it this way shows the United States in the upper half of the list of 11 countries, ranking higher than Australia, Canada, China, England, France, Germany and Mexico.

Still, the U.S. doesn’t rank No. 1. At 0.15 mass shooting fatalities per 100,000 people, the U.S. had a lower rate than Norway (1.3 per 100,000), Finland (0.34 per 100,000) and Switzerland (1.7 per 100,000).


It's interesting how the Breivik shootings alone, in light of the small population of Norway, put Norway near the top of the per capita listings.

I find this bit interesting as well:

Finally, their database doesn’t include acts generally considered to be terrorism, such as the attack in Paris on the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo.

"If these were included, we are likely to see something much different statistically as there have been a number of very high-profile terrorist attacks in Europe, some including the use of firearms, that are excluded from the current analysis," she said. But in all likelihood, this would only make the case against Obama’s claim stronger.

...

The data shows that it clearly happens in other countries, and in at least three of them, there’s evidence that the rate of killings in mass-shooting events occurred at a higher per-capita rate than in the United States between 2000 and 2014. The only partial support for Obama’s claim is that the per-capita gun-incident fatality rate in the United States does rank in the top one-third of the list of 11 countries studied. On balance, we rate the claim Mostly False.



The per capita murder rate in Mexico is more than double that of the US.
Link Posted: 10/3/2015 11:46:43 PM EDT
[#40]
Glad they got the stupid little turd. I wonder who put him up to it?
Link Posted: 10/4/2015 12:39:10 AM EDT
[#41]

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Quoted:


Glad they got the stupid little turd. I wonder who put him up to it?
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Apparently his sister left the country the day before the incident bound for Istanbul. They are speculating she's gone to link up with isis.




She's the probable link.




On the other hand, his brother called the police as soon as he found out and handed himself in and is being fully cooperative. Looks like it wasn't the whole family, just part of it.
Link Posted: 10/4/2015 12:40:01 AM EDT
[#42]
I'm not going to respond to the 15er who is clearly here to go off topic and troll.
Link Posted: 10/4/2015 12:41:21 AM EDT
[#43]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


If I offended anyone with my earlier comments, I am sorry.  What I said I said quickly as this topic pisses me off to no end.  

I am saddened that a Brother in Blue died, and am very happy that the shooter was stopped without any other bloodshed.

That said, anyone who tries to ban guns to prevent violence is an idiot. Anyone who believes that (banning) is an idiot.   Guns are not the problem.



Work on the mental health issues.  Don't import your problems.



Dont.  Blame.  Guns.
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People are looking deep at our asylum seeker policies too. There have been numerous incidences all involving people who were let in as refugees.
Link Posted: 10/4/2015 2:04:43 AM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



The per capita murder rate in Mexico is more than double that of the US.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
And this is right after Fuckface gives his little "this doesn't happen in other industrialized nations" speech.


Here's a very good article addressing that claim objectively.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jun/22/barack-obama/barack-obama-correct-mass-killings-dont-happen-oth/

We compared mass shooting incidents across countries is to calculate the number of victims per capita -- that is, adjusted for the country’s total population size.

Calculating it this way shows the United States in the upper half of the list of 11 countries, ranking higher than Australia, Canada, China, England, France, Germany and Mexico.

Still, the U.S. doesn’t rank No. 1. At 0.15 mass shooting fatalities per 100,000 people, the U.S. had a lower rate than Norway (1.3 per 100,000), Finland (0.34 per 100,000) and Switzerland (1.7 per 100,000).


It's interesting how the Breivik shootings alone, in light of the small population of Norway, put Norway near the top of the per capita listings.

I find this bit interesting as well:

Finally, their database doesn’t include acts generally considered to be terrorism, such as the attack in Paris on the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo.

"If these were included, we are likely to see something much different statistically as there have been a number of very high-profile terrorist attacks in Europe, some including the use of firearms, that are excluded from the current analysis," she said. But in all likelihood, this would only make the case against Obama’s claim stronger.

...

The data shows that it clearly happens in other countries, and in at least three of them, there’s evidence that the rate of killings in mass-shooting events occurred at a higher per-capita rate than in the United States between 2000 and 2014. The only partial support for Obama’s claim is that the per-capita gun-incident fatality rate in the United States does rank in the top one-third of the list of 11 countries studied. On balance, we rate the claim Mostly False.



The per capita murder rate in Mexico is more than double that of the US.


Mexico is never included among the countries the U.S. is compared to for these histrionics.
Link Posted: 10/4/2015 2:24:32 AM EDT
[#45]
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Quoted:
I'm not going to respond to the 15er who is clearly here to go off topic and troll.
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You accused me making arguments I did not make (which I backed up with evidence).

You accused me of attacking your country when I did no such thing.

You ignored the arguments I did make relating to the horrible fact that your politicians lied to you much as my politicians lie to me.

Finally you respond to me calling you out for attacking me for things I have not said chalking up your inability to actually comprehend what I have written and to address my comments to the fact that I registered with this forum in 2015 and you have the audacity to call me a troll?    

I took you for an educated person capable of basic reading comprehension and reasoning skills.   Serves me right for making assumptions.

Please enjoy what's left of your freedom in your beautiful country.   I hope your neighbors in New Zealand learn from your example.  

Have a good day.      
Link Posted: 10/4/2015 2:36:58 AM EDT
[#46]
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Quoted:
That's not what we are saying.What we are saying is that the new restrictive gun laws did not prevent this, as was predicted. Australians are no safer with your more restrictive laws than they were before them.  It is highly illegal for a 15 year old to get his hands on a handgun--but there he was.
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I can't believe I missed this post.

Well said.  

Link Posted: 10/4/2015 3:08:26 AM EDT
[#47]
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Quoted:
Wonder where the criminals get the majority of their guns over there. Smuggled in or stolen from civilians or something else, I mean.
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When there's a market there's always a way. Drugs, Guns, prostitution,  illegal immigrants etc.
I imagine that big coastline they have is both a deterrent to smuggling and a access method for smuggling boats.
Link Posted: 10/4/2015 3:20:25 AM EDT
[#48]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You accused me making arguments I did not make (which I backed up with evidence).



You accused me of attacking your country when I did no such thing.



You ignored the arguments I did make relating to the horrible fact that your politicians lied to you much as my politicians lie to me.



Finally you respond to me calling you out for attacking me for things I have not said chalking up your inability to actually comprehend what I have written and to address my comments to the fact that I registered with this forum in 2015 and you have the audacity to call me a troll?    



I took you for an educated person capable of basic reading comprehension and reasoning skills.   Serves me right for making assumptions.



Please enjoy what's left of your freedom in your beautiful country.   I hope your neighbors in New Zealand learn from your example.  



Have a good day.      

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Quoted:



Quoted:

I'm not going to respond to the 15er who is clearly here to go off topic and troll.




You accused me making arguments I did not make (which I backed up with evidence).



You accused me of attacking your country when I did no such thing.



You ignored the arguments I did make relating to the horrible fact that your politicians lied to you much as my politicians lie to me.



Finally you respond to me calling you out for attacking me for things I have not said chalking up your inability to actually comprehend what I have written and to address my comments to the fact that I registered with this forum in 2015 and you have the audacity to call me a troll?    



I took you for an educated person capable of basic reading comprehension and reasoning skills.   Serves me right for making assumptions.



Please enjoy what's left of your freedom in your beautiful country.   I hope your neighbors in New Zealand learn from your example.  



Have a good day.      





 
I like how you twist words, make shit up and act like what you said isn't making fun of Australia's immigration policies (and I'm not the only one who noticed that).




Yet you act like you're the victim when you're called out as a troll.




You do realise that the 2nd amendment doesn't mean you're more free than any other country?  Even then, gun laws in the US are not unrestricted and vary incredibly from state to state and even county to county.




Welcome to my ignore list, which actually consists of you and Balista.  You join exclusive company.






Link Posted: 10/4/2015 3:24:14 AM EDT
[#49]
A couple news outlets didn't want to name the shooter for fear of backlash against the "community" of richness and vibrancy.  One station went ahead and did.  

The best part is, the second you saw they were hesitant to say anything, ya kinda knew the motive.

I sure hope they investigate the fuck out of that mosque in Paramatta.  

Even after this I still has Aussie's talk shit about America's gun laws, and they were full of excuses when I mentioned the police HQ shooting.  Fifty, you may not see it, but your countrymen get pretty fucking high and mighty towards us Yanks when it comes to firearms.
Link Posted: 10/4/2015 3:24:26 AM EDT
[#50]
Does DUI law stops people from driving while under the influence? Does speeding law stops people from speeding? Does the law stops people from stealing, raping, killing? Hmmm....
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