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Posted: 10/2/2015 6:22:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Got to have a lot of steel to survive that 30K Gs of acceleration and side slap when the round hits the forcing cone
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Posted: 10/2/2015 6:40:43 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Rockets are more effective than cannons for the delivery of effects on target The ability to carry 160 rockets is nothing to scoff at. 
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Posted: 10/2/2015 6:41:32 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Czechs don't like Russians, apparently http://www.airsceneuk.org.uk/oldstuff/czechmate/su25.JPG http://masm.fr/Sig/europe/Czech/CzechSU25Frog-2.jpg That tail art is awesome |
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Posted: 10/2/2015 9:23:55 PM EDT
[#4]
This one and another Su-25 and two Mig 21's where pounced on by two F15's while beating feet to Iran ------- they didn't make it... |
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Posted: 10/3/2015 6:13:27 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Iraqi_Su-25_-_Gulf_War_1991.jpg This one and another Su-25 and two Mig 21's where pounced on by two F15's while beating feet to Iran ------- they didn't make it... Were Iraqs flying it by chance? |
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Posted: 10/3/2015 8:33:36 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Were Iraqs flying it by chance? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Iraqi_Su-25_-_Gulf_War_1991.jpg This one and another Su-25 and two Mig 21's where pounced on by two F15's while beating feet to Iran ------- they didn't make it... Were Iraqs flying it by chance? they flew them until 2003, Apparently the new Govt just put in an order for replacements. |
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Posted: 10/3/2015 9:26:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
they flew them until 2003, Apparently the new Govt just put in an order for replacements. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Iraqi_Su-25_-_Gulf_War_1991.jpg This one and another Su-25 and two Mig 21's where pounced on by two F15's while beating feet to Iran ------- they didn't make it... Were Iraqs flying it by chance? they flew them until 2003, Apparently the new Govt just put in an order for replacements. I mean at the time it went down. I'm thinking the Iraq army isn't the best bunch of guys to showcase millitary hardware. |
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Posted: 10/3/2015 9:42:33 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 10/4/2015 6:06:26 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ha, I figured a 105 had a bit more punch Quote HistoryQuoted:
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2.75" FFAR are not that powerful. 10lb or 17lb warheads. The 5" Zuni is the fun one. 10 pounders have 1 Kg and 17 pounders have 2 Kgs of Comp B in each round, only a little less than a 105mm HE round Ha, I figured a 105 had a bit more punch Eh, what sort of frag casing is used? Initial confinement of the explosives does contribute significantly to the over all effects (as I recall there are a couple explosives that can not detonate without confinement). |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 6:16:38 AM EDT
[#10]
Grach stronk!
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Posted: 10/4/2015 6:17:19 AM EDT
[#11]
I haven't waded through all the comments so forgive me if this has been stated.
During the trials for which plane would become the A-10, some other company had submitted a plane in the competition that oddly resembles the Frogfoot. In fact, when I saw it was the Soviet Unions proposed new plane for ground support, I said to myself "did someone sell the design to the Russians?" |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 6:36:54 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I haven't waded through all the comments so forgive me if this has been stated. During the trials for which plane would become the A-10, some other company had submitted a plane in the competition that oddly resembles the Frogfoot. In fact, when I saw it was the Soviet Unions proposed new plane for ground support, I said to myself "did someone sell the design to the Russians?" There was a movie about this. A KGB colonel decided to turn and exposed it, I think it was a French movie. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/6223518/French-spy-movie-reveals-Soviet-secrets-and-reopens-old-wounds-with-Moscow.html |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 6:39:39 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would really like to see what an A-10 with modernized gun pods under the wings could do. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 6:40:17 AM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 10/4/2015 6:41:43 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The internal gun is about the baddest thing ever made. How would wing mount pods provide any advance? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I would really like to see what an A-10 with modernized gun pods under the wings could do. Oh, I dunno, some people might find being able to aim and shoot without using the whole plane to to so might be a perk, as well as using a more appropriate AP round that you can hold more of. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 7:04:41 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh, I dunno, some people might find being able to aim and shoot without using the whole plane to to so might be a perk, as well as using a more appropriate AP round that you can hold more of. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I would really like to see what an A-10 with modernized gun pods under the wings could do. Oh, I dunno, some people might find being able to aim and shoot without using the whole plane to to so might be a perk, as well as using a more appropriate AP round that you can hold more of. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 7:25:33 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryRussian HUD looks funky. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 7:41:22 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ha, I figured a 105 had a bit more punch Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
2.75" FFAR are not that powerful. 10lb or 17lb warheads. The 5" Zuni is the fun one. 10 pounders have 1 Kg and 17 pounders have 2 Kgs of Comp B in each round, only a little less than a 105mm HE round Ha, I figured a 105 had a bit more punch they don't. which is why with the 120 out there, 105 has lost some of its appeal. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:23:07 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You still have to use the aircraft to aim wing pod cannons. All you would get in another 1000 rounds of ammo. Rockets or cluster bombs would be more effective imo on troops. Plus you can pickle them all off on one pass limiting your exposure over target. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
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I would really like to see what an A-10 with modernized gun pods under the wings could do. Oh, I dunno, some people might find being able to aim and shoot without using the whole plane to to so might be a perk, as well as using a more appropriate AP round that you can hold more of. I'm assuming any modern pod developed to enhance the A10 would be steerable. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 8:45:23 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Russian HUD looks funky. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Russian HUD looks funky. I like the older Garmin and antenna stuck to the windscreen on the right. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 12:32:28 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Russian HUD looks funky. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Russian HUD looks funky. Im pretty sure its just a gunsight |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 12:37:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Czechs don't like Russians, apparently http://www.airsceneuk.org.uk/oldstuff/czechmate/su25.JPG http://masm.fr/Sig/europe/Czech/CzechSU25Frog-2.jpg The Czechs hated the fucking Russians... |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 12:43:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
God damn, look at the lines and lines of rivets. Make that bird smooth, it would probably go 100 knots faster...
So many structural members it must be nearly solid. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Great simple, tough, reliable aircraft. Yep http://iliketowastemytime.com/sites/default/files/historical-photos-pt7-su-25-damaged-2008-georgia-war.jpg God damn, look at the lines and lines of rivets. Make that bird smooth, it would probably go 100 knots faster...
So many structural members it must be nearly solid. Parasitic drag most Russian birds do just fine with it. We like to poo poo the old Soviet stuff but we have become the Germans fewer than necessary numbers of quality components. It's not how we won WWII. Show me a US made jet that can take off a dirt road. The older Soviet jets could. We need to push for more of a middle ground, somewhere between the Soviets and where we are now. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 12:50:24 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Parasitic drag most Russian birds do just fine with it. We like to poo poo the old Soviet stuff but we have become the Germans fewer than necessary numbers of quality components. It's not how we won WWII. Show me a US made jet that can take off a dirt road. The older Soviet jets could. We need to push for more of a middle ground, somewhere between the Soviets and where we are now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Great simple, tough, reliable aircraft. Yep http://iliketowastemytime.com/sites/default/files/historical-photos-pt7-su-25-damaged-2008-georgia-war.jpg God damn, look at the lines and lines of rivets. Make that bird smooth, it would probably go 100 knots faster...
So many structural members it must be nearly solid. Parasitic drag most Russian birds do just fine with it. We like to poo poo the old Soviet stuff but we have become the Germans fewer than necessary numbers of quality components. It's not how we won WWII. Show me a US made jet that can take off a dirt road. The older Soviet jets could. We need to push for more of a middle ground, somewhere between the Soviets and where we are now. At least we can sustain our fancy stuff. We try to push that stuff on other countries that never will. Now that's just stupid. People need reliable old jeeps and we insist on corvettes. Which of course necessitates roads and road maintenance, etc. etc. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 12:52:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Parasitic drag most Russian birds do just fine with it. We like to poo poo the old Soviet stuff but we have become the Germans fewer than necessary numbers of quality components. It's not how we won WWII. Show me a US made jet that can take off a dirt road. The older Soviet jets could. We need to push for more of a middle ground, somewhere between the Soviets and where we are now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Great simple, tough, reliable aircraft. Yep http://iliketowastemytime.com/sites/default/files/historical-photos-pt7-su-25-damaged-2008-georgia-war.jpg God damn, look at the lines and lines of rivets. Make that bird smooth, it would probably go 100 knots faster...
So many structural members it must be nearly solid. Parasitic drag most Russian birds do just fine with it. We like to poo poo the old Soviet stuff but we have become the Germans fewer than necessary numbers of quality components. It's not how we won WWII. Show me a US made jet that can take off a dirt road. The older Soviet jets could. We need to push for more of a middle ground, somewhere between the Soviets and where we are now. wasnt the A-10 supposed to be rough-field capable?? Even Western Euro designs like the Jaguar were made to be used from improvised firlds....not to mention Convenient 8K foot straight sections of Autobahn.... 
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Posted: 10/4/2015 1:15:15 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At least we can sustain our fancy stuff. We try to push that stuff on other countries that never will. Now that's just stupid. People need reliable old jeeps and we insist on corvettes. Which of course necessitates roads and road maintenance, etc. etc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Great simple, tough, reliable aircraft. Yep http://iliketowastemytime.com/sites/default/files/historical-photos-pt7-su-25-damaged-2008-georgia-war.jpg God damn, look at the lines and lines of rivets. Make that bird smooth, it would probably go 100 knots faster...
So many structural members it must be nearly solid. Parasitic drag most Russian birds do just fine with it. We like to poo poo the old Soviet stuff but we have become the Germans fewer than necessary numbers of quality components. It's not how we won WWII. Show me a US made jet that can take off a dirt road. The older Soviet jets could. We need to push for more of a middle ground, somewhere between the Soviets and where we are now. At least we can sustain our fancy stuff. We try to push that stuff on other countries that never will. Now that's just stupid. People need reliable old jeeps and we insist on corvettes. Which of course necessitates roads and road maintenance, etc. etc. Don't get me wrong I worked on Hornets when they were fairly new in the fleet, and love the F16. The new birds being designed are nice, but not rugged by any stretch of the imagination. The old Soviet stuff was rugged. As an example we used potentiometer for throttle control, the soviets used an open rheostat system, think the old model Railroad controls. There system goes bad you clean carbon off and its flying. Ours required a new component. IIRC the SU 27 had the flaps closing the lower intake opening an intake over the wings. They literally could take off a dirt road with rocks all over. I cannot imagine any US bird able to do that. There is nothing wrong with wanting advanced, but if it cannot run in harsh environments its worthless. We don't get to choose where we operate. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 2:29:32 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't get me wrong I worked on Hornets when they were fairly new in the fleet, and love the F16. The new birds being designed are nice, but not rugged by any stretch of the imagination. The old Soviet stuff was rugged. As an example we used potentiometer for throttle control, the soviets used an open rheostat system, think the old model Railroad controls. There system goes bad you clean carbon off and its flying. Ours required a new component. IIRC the SU 27 had the flaps closing the lower intake opening an intake over the wings. They literally could take off a dirt road with rocks all over. I cannot imagine any US bird able to do that. There is nothing wrong with wanting advanced, but if it cannot run in harsh environments its worthless. We don't get to choose where we operate. They also have a little dingus that flips down over the nosewheel to catch rocks kicked up....simple. mechanical |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 3:17:28 PM EDT
[#28]
Back in the day I watched a squadron of AV-8B II+ Harriers operate off of a two-lane road on Camp Lejune. Its not exactly a dirt strip, or a grassy field, but its not an airfield either. So we have not completely abandoned that particular capability...yet.
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Posted: 10/4/2015 3:20:02 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I mean at the time it went down. I'm thinking the Iraq army isn't the best bunch of guys to showcase millitary hardware. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Iraqi_Su-25_-_Gulf_War_1991.jpg This one and another Su-25 and two Mig 21's where pounced on by two F15's while beating feet to Iran ------- they didn't make it... Were Iraqs flying it by chance? they flew them until 2003, Apparently the new Govt just put in an order for replacements. I mean at the time it went down. I'm thinking the Iraq army isn't the best bunch of guys to showcase millitary hardware. Izzy's knocked the yard dog shit out of the Russians when the Russians flew for Egypt. The Izzy's were US trained and flying US aircraft. Not SU 25's, but you get the point. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 4:48:55 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Izzy's knocked the yard dog shit out of the Russians when the Russians flew for Egypt. The Izzy's were US trained and flying US aircraft. Not SU 25's, but you get the point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Iraqi_Su-25_-_Gulf_War_1991.jpg This one and another Su-25 and two Mig 21's where pounced on by two F15's while beating feet to Iran ------- they didn't make it... Were Iraqs flying it by chance? they flew them until 2003, Apparently the new Govt just put in an order for replacements. I mean at the time it went down. I'm thinking the Iraq army isn't the best bunch of guys to showcase millitary hardware. Izzy's knocked the yard dog shit out of the Russians when the Russians flew for Egypt. The Izzy's were US trained and flying US aircraft. Not SU 25's, but you get the point. Now imagine if it was Iraqis flying them. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 5:05:08 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... Don't get me wrong I worked on Hornets when they were fairly new in the fleet, and love the F16. The new birds being designed are nice, but not rugged by any stretch of the imagination. The old Soviet stuff was rugged. As an example we used potentiometer for throttle control, the soviets used an open rheostat system, think the old model Railroad controls. There system goes bad you clean carbon off and its flying. Ours required a new component. IIRC the SU 27 had the flaps closing the lower intake opening an intake over the wings. They literally could take off a dirt road with rocks all over. I cannot imagine any US bird able to do that. There is nothing wrong with wanting advanced, but if it cannot run in harsh environments its worthless. We don't get to choose where we operate. All Russian airplanes are designed to operate from unimproved fields in poor condition. I have a photo of the Tu-144 during trials with mud and snow spraying huge rooster tails. Note the comparatively large size of the tires on Russian airplanes, for the same reason. The Russians planned to operated from cul de sacs along the highways to avoid making too many airplanes vulnerable by clustering at large air bases. I wonder if they still follow that philosophy in this day of precision guided weapons. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 5:50:25 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All Russian airplanes are designed to operate from unimproved fields in poor condition. I have a photo of the Tu-144 during trials with mud and snow spraying huge rooster tails. Note the comparatively large size of the tires on Russian airplanes, for the same reason. The Russians planned to operated from cul de sacs along the highways to avoid making too many airplanes vulnerable by clustering at large air bases. I wonder if they still follow that philosophy in this day of precision guided weapons. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
... Don't get me wrong I worked on Hornets when they were fairly new in the fleet, and love the F16. The new birds being designed are nice, but not rugged by any stretch of the imagination. The old Soviet stuff was rugged. As an example we used potentiometer for throttle control, the soviets used an open rheostat system, think the old model Railroad controls. There system goes bad you clean carbon off and its flying. Ours required a new component. IIRC the SU 27 had the flaps closing the lower intake opening an intake over the wings. They literally could take off a dirt road with rocks all over. I cannot imagine any US bird able to do that. There is nothing wrong with wanting advanced, but if it cannot run in harsh environments its worthless. We don't get to choose where we operate. All Russian airplanes are designed to operate from unimproved fields in poor condition. I have a photo of the Tu-144 during trials with mud and snow spraying huge rooster tails. Note the comparatively large size of the tires on Russian airplanes, for the same reason. The Russians planned to operated from cul de sacs along the highways to avoid making too many airplanes vulnerable by clustering at large air bases. I wonder if they still follow that philosophy in this day of precision guided weapons. 
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Posted: 10/4/2015 5:52:11 PM EDT
[#33]
Don't forget the front wheel spats...
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Posted: 10/4/2015 6:04:23 PM EDT
[#34]
The USAF received 6 solicited designs for the AX project.
Boeing Vertol Cessna Fairchild-Hiller / Republic General Dynamics / Convair Lockheed Northrop Two other companies had unsolicited designs. McDonnell Douglas Grumman The A-10 was almost derailed by Congress as they forced the A-10 into a fly-off with the USAF's A-7D. http://crgis.ndc.nasa.gov/crgis/images/7/75/1967_Ray_&_Phillips_Close_Air_Support_(A-X)_Airplane_Model.pdf General Dynamics / Convair proposal http://crgis.ndc.nasa.gov/crgis/images/0/0a/1967_Lockwood_&Philllips_Close_Air_Support_(A-X)_Airplane_Model.pdf McDonnell Douglas proposal |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 6:09:21 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Russians shipped a squadron of Su-24s for medium-ish altitude strike missions, and one of Su-25s for when they have to fly low. If you have to fly in to manpads range you want a Su-25. That's a big difference with the west right there, the USAF doesn't think that it needs to fly low anymore so from that perspective an armored ground attack aircraft isn't that useful. You could write a book on comparing the Su-25 versus the A-10 but the fact is that the Su-25 is still in production while the A-10 will soon be in museums. Not to mention, it's also worth considering whose political leadership is actually willing to use their aircraft. The best ground attack plane ever made is useless if you have some feckless leader like our Dumbass in Chief. |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 6:12:14 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Russians shipped a squadron of Su-24s for medium-ish altitude strike missions, and one of Su-25s for when they have to fly low. If you have to fly in to manpads range you want a Su-25. That's a big difference with the west right there, the USAF doesn't think that it needs to fly low anymore so from that perspective an armored ground attack aircraft isn't that useful. You could write a book on comparing the Su-25 versus the A-10 but the fact is that the Su-25 is still in production while the A-10 will soon be in museums. Fly any aircraft in the MANPAD zone is not a plan for success; whether it is an A10 or a SU25 |
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Posted: 10/4/2015 6:15:05 PM EDT
[#37]
No shit, since modern MANPADS are almost undefeatable in their WEZ.
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Posted: 10/4/2015 10:30:05 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No shit, since modern MANPADS are almost undefeatable in their WEZ. Are they that good, or just not enough time to defeat? |
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Posted: 10/5/2015 3:31:03 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Were Iraqs flying it by chance? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Iraqi_Su-25_-_Gulf_War_1991.jpg This one and another Su-25 and two Mig 21's where pounced on by two F15's while beating feet to Iran ------- they didn't make it... Were Iraqs flying it by chance? Yes -------------------------- Gulf War 1991... |
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Posted: 10/5/2015 3:35:38 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This one and another Su-25 and two Mig 21's where pounced on by two F15's while beating feet to Iran ------- they didn't make it... Is that what's left of the pilot to the right? |
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Posted: 10/5/2015 4:03:09 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is that what's left of the pilot to the right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Iraqi_Su-25_-_Gulf_War_1991.jpg This one and another Su-25 and two Mig 21's where pounced on by two F15's while beating feet to Iran ------- they didn't make it... Is that what's left of the pilot to the right? Looks like a parachute to me. |
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Posted: 10/5/2015 4:10:44 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryWe may have done it better, but they did it first |
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Posted: 10/5/2015 4:27:36 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are they that good, or just not enough time to defeat? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No shit, since modern MANPADS are almost undefeatable in their WEZ. Are they that good, or just not enough time to defeat? You don't know they are there until they have fired. |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 4:20:36 PM EDT
[#44]
Does anyone want to translate a Russian or Czech TM into English?
Russian fighter-bombers take root on delaware farm
Photo: Aviation Week |
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