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Posted: 8/26/2015 6:48:14 AM EDT
[#1]
For the build quality of the case, the keyboard, screen, and all day battery, yes. Have one, quite happy.
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Posted: 8/26/2015 7:48:09 AM EDT
[#2]
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There's more to it than that IMO. I was playing around on Lenovo's site, and just to upgrade a Thinkpad to SSD, 1080p screen, and mid level i5 was $1187. No option for AC wireless, 13" rMBP screen is 2560x1600 while the one I was configuring topped out at 1080. For that price you are still getting a plastic shell, plastic screen, etc. Another of the T series I just checked tops out at 1600x900 and was over $1000 just upgrading it to an i5 while still coming with 4GB of RAM and HDD instead of SSD. For giggles I checked a 3rd model of T series, one that can get a 3k screen (2880x1680), and with SSD + i5 it was $200 more than a 13" rMBP with same CPU and SSD specs coming in at over $1500. I am sure for a business they can get bulk discounts, and ThinkPad's can be configured with a wide range of options to fit user's needs in a business environment. I just think the people claiming you can get as good of specs for half the price are either talking about bulk purchases where they're buying hundreds of laptops at a time or missing the fact half the specs aren't even close to the same. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You make a good point, usually the price difference for same specs is not 2-3x, its usually in the 50-100% range. A few years ago, I was able to do T420's with 16 gigs ram and 250gig SSD for about half of what a 13" macbook pro with same specs were going for, but I think it was just that one year. Apple HAS gotten a bit better on pricing as of late. There's more to it than that IMO. I was playing around on Lenovo's site, and just to upgrade a Thinkpad to SSD, 1080p screen, and mid level i5 was $1187. No option for AC wireless, 13" rMBP screen is 2560x1600 while the one I was configuring topped out at 1080. For that price you are still getting a plastic shell, plastic screen, etc. Another of the T series I just checked tops out at 1600x900 and was over $1000 just upgrading it to an i5 while still coming with 4GB of RAM and HDD instead of SSD. For giggles I checked a 3rd model of T series, one that can get a 3k screen (2880x1680), and with SSD + i5 it was $200 more than a 13" rMBP with same CPU and SSD specs coming in at over $1500. I am sure for a business they can get bulk discounts, and ThinkPad's can be configured with a wide range of options to fit user's needs in a business environment. I just think the people claiming you can get as good of specs for half the price are either talking about bulk purchases where they're buying hundreds of laptops at a time or missing the fact half the specs aren't even close to the same. This. I've repeatedly tried to spec out a 13"-14" Windows laptop comparable to a 13" Macbook (Pro or Air) to save money, and you'll spend the same either way if you are truly honest about matching all specs as closely as possible. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 7:53:54 AM EDT
[#3]
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The current "MacBook" (released a couple months ago) might be underpowered for any heavy computing. It's sleek, fast, and incredibly light, with advanced features, but it may not be right for someone who needs a lot of processing power. Quote HistoryQuoted:
The current "MacBook" (released a couple months ago) might be underpowered for any heavy computing. It's sleek, fast, and incredibly light, with advanced features, but it may not be right for someone who needs a lot of processing power. This is true. The concept is great for an ultraportable, ultralight, silent laptop for road use, but I wouldn't use one as my primary computer. It's simply too limited. Pro or Air are both actually usable, with a nod toward a Pro as a sole/primary computer. But definitely get a Mac. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 7:57:42 AM EDT
[#4]
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Macs have hardware problems just like windows computers do. They also get malware (although admittedly not as frequent) Most problems with windows machines can be traced back to the user not knowing how to computer. Macs were designed specifically to combat this. People that have even the slightest knowledge of how a computer works will be far better served by a windows machine. It isn't hard to keep a windows machine running right and infection free. For those whose forward progress stopped with the microwave, a mac is a fantastic idea.  Nope. Macs run the only successful consumer version of Unix. OSX is the best OS available, hands down, in user interface and capability -- it's just very different from Windows because BSD was developed in a very different way over the last thirty years. Windows is good too, I'm typing this on a Windows 10 machine at the moment (though my Mac is right next to me) -- but the beauty of OSX is that it can work very well for the computer retarded, while allowing people like me to be extremely productive as well. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 7:57:44 AM EDT
[#5]
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I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not only yes, but they are the same price as identical Windows laptops. Apple doesn't do low-end, and too many people confuse the $300 ACER they got from Tiger Direct for being comparable to a 15" MBP or whatnot. They ain't. Spec out a 15" Windows laptop to the same standards as the MBP, and it will cost the same. That's not true. I got a Dell XPS for ~$750 with the specs of a MBP that cost about $2,500. (looked almost identical to a MBP too, which is probably why it got stolen). I'm gonna go ahead and call bullshit. Yeah. Post the specific model number you bought, any custom specs you ordered, and when you bought it. I'd like to see that for myself. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 7:59:01 AM EDT
[#6]
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yes. worth it in the long run |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 7:59:23 AM EDT
[#7]
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It's a valid point, honestly. Though, the entrails of IOS can be quite geeky and thrilling, the IOS is designed for people who don't pooter other than basic needs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Macs have hardware problems just like windows computers do. They also get malware (although admittedly not as frequent) Most problems with windows machines can be traced back to the user not knowing how to computer. Macs were designed specifically to combat this. People that have even the slightest knowledge of how a computer works will be far better served by a windows machine. It isn't hard to keep a windows machine running right and infection free. For those whose forward progress stopped with the microwave, a mac is a fantastic idea. It's a valid point, honestly. Though, the entrails of IOS can be quite geeky and thrilling, the IOS is designed for people who don't pooter other than basic needs. iOS -- yes. OSX not so much, though the UI is extremely effective for those people as well. Honestly, the people he's talking about have no business having a computer. A tablet will do whatever they need just fine. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:00:20 AM EDT
[#8]
If peeps are bent out of shape about the OS just dual-boot the thing. It isn't like it's hard to set up.
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:02:41 AM EDT
[#9]
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I'm not talking the consumer grade shit you'd get at Sleaze Buy, Office Crap, etc. I'm talking business grade / enterprise grade systems. And trust me, Apple quality can be just as hit or miss as any other similar grade laptop. I've seen PLENTY of their gear having thermal issues from poorly designed heatsinks, or poorly applied thermal compound (their 2011 macbook pros were NOTORIOUS for this, I trouble shoot'ed about 5 of them that would go into thermal shutdown from running a small matlab job for less than 5 minutes). There was a 100+ page thread on Apple''s tech support web site on this one problem alone. Don't get me wrong, they're not trash. They're fairly decent quality items. But they're not magic. Its commodity parts slapped into a pretty looking chassis. And Apple has a REALLY bad reputation for ignoring things like proper cooling (which can make a box heavier and louder - more heatsink mass and a fan that moves more air), and hoping their users don't push the machine hard enough to notice. Usually they can get away with it (or Intel comes out with a newer model cpu that draws less power), but sometimes it does blow up in their face. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If you want to run Mac OS X, yes, its worth it (because nothing else will run it outside Apple products) If you have no burning desire for OS X, or need Windows specific apps, then Apple products are WILDLY over priced and not the best option. For every else, spare me the " just boot camp it" or "run parallels on it" crap. Yes those do work, but all they do is enable you to spend 2-3x as much on a laptop to do the SAME goddamn thing you could do on a quality T series notebook, or similar quality laptop from Dell, HP, etc. The only LOGICAL reason to buy a Mac, is to run Mac OS X. Similar quality? Keep dreaming. I've had them all and there is no comparison when it comes to build quality, aesthetics, size/weight, and materials. I had a good quality Thinkpad once, but they haven't made them like that in years. And there's no way they're 2-3x as much as the same specs in a Windows laptop. If you can even FIND the same specs (you probably won't because Dell and HP aim for the low end so you'd probably have to custom build a lot of it), they're going to price out very similarly and the Macbook will be lighter, have a better screen, and a lot longer-lasting battery.  I'm not talking the consumer grade shit you'd get at Sleaze Buy, Office Crap, etc. I'm talking business grade / enterprise grade systems. And trust me, Apple quality can be just as hit or miss as any other similar grade laptop. I've seen PLENTY of their gear having thermal issues from poorly designed heatsinks, or poorly applied thermal compound (their 2011 macbook pros were NOTORIOUS for this, I trouble shoot'ed about 5 of them that would go into thermal shutdown from running a small matlab job for less than 5 minutes). There was a 100+ page thread on Apple''s tech support web site on this one problem alone. Don't get me wrong, they're not trash. They're fairly decent quality items. But they're not magic. Its commodity parts slapped into a pretty looking chassis. And Apple has a REALLY bad reputation for ignoring things like proper cooling (which can make a box heavier and louder - more heatsink mass and a fan that moves more air), and hoping their users don't push the machine hard enough to notice. Usually they can get away with it (or Intel comes out with a newer model cpu that draws less power), but sometimes it does blow up in their face. Apple puts millions of dollars into proper cooling and designing the internals of their machines. The other manufacturers in general just go big and lots of fans because that's easy. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:03:18 AM EDT
[#10]
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That must be why all the computer science and electrical engineering students (among other majors) use Macs. I prefer a UNIX environment and yes I progressed past using a microwave. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Macs have hardware problems just like windows computers do. They also get malware (although admittedly not as frequent) Most problems with windows machines can be traced back to the user not knowing how to computer. Macs were designed specifically to combat this. People that have even the slightest knowledge of how a computer works will be far better served by a windows machine. It isn't hard to keep a windows machine running right and infection free. For those whose forward progress stopped with the microwave, a mac is a fantastic idea.
That must be why all the computer science and electrical engineering students (among other majors) use Macs. I prefer a UNIX environment and yes I progressed past using a microwave. Yep. Finishing my MSIA now -- did my BSCS on a Mac exclusively as well. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:07:41 AM EDT
[#11]
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OSX is very handy if you're a developer. It's Unix, runs MS Office natively, and you can spin up a Windows or Linux VM if you have to. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Which sums up my point. If you're doing Apple related stuff, get a mac. If your doing something thats not Apple related, then get the best tool for the job. OSX is very handy if you're a developer. It's Unix, runs MS Office natively, and you can spin up a Windows or Linux VM if you have to. And this is why I use it. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:09:16 AM EDT
[#12]
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That's not true. I got a Dell XPS for ~$750 with the specs of a MBP that cost about $2,500. (looked almost identical to a MBP too, which is probably why it got stolen). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not only yes, but they are the same price as identical Windows laptops. Apple doesn't do low-end, and too many people confuse the $300 ACER they got from Tiger Direct for being comparable to a 15" MBP or whatnot. They ain't. Spec out a 15" Windows laptop to the same standards as the MBP, and it will cost the same. That's not true. I got a Dell XPS for ~$750 with the specs of a MBP that cost about $2,500. (looked almost identical to a MBP too, which is probably why it got stolen). No, you didn't. Go ahead and post the spec sheet from Dell's website, and I'll do what I always have to do in these threads and explain to you why you didn't get anything equivalent to that macbook. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:10:43 AM EDT
[#13]
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Are you sure about that? That's like saying Windows and OSX are both software and therefore identical. You can take a batch of the exact same electronic components and have very different PCB designs offering very different outcomes. There are also many different grades or levels of components with different MTBF, Temperature and V/I tolerance. These components can look identical but are not. Add to that engineers can design something without much testing and put out a product only slightly tested, or can test the crap out of it and fine tune the design for greater functionality and longevity. Along the same vein since Apple chooses its HW and that HW range is limited throughout their entire line they can fine tune the drivers for top performance. I can't prove Apple uses better components but I don't think you can prove they don't and lots of people, including myself have experienced Apple computers lasting much longer than PCs. My two Macs are ancient (2007 MBP and 2008 MBP) and I still use them everyday without any problems. I have a desktop PC that was giving me several BSODs with XP (atleast two per day) and the first year of W7 release (about one per couple days). I put OSX on it and never had a problem. I put linux on it and most flavors never gave me a problem after initial setup. Also just because the design of an operating system is well thought out and purposely easy to use does not mean it is not powerful or have advanced features (most of which the average user will never know about) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Macs have hardware problems just like windows computers do. They also get malware (although admittedly not as frequent) Most problems with windows machines can be traced back to the user not knowing how to computer. Macs were designed specifically to combat this. People that have even the slightest knowledge of how a computer works will be far better served by a windows machine. It isn't hard to keep a windows machine running right and infection free. For those whose forward progress stopped with the microwave, a mac is a fantastic idea. I've yet to see a windows laptop that has a battery that will be useful three or four years down the road. Mac batteries are still going strong 4,5, and even 6 years down the road. In my experience, windows machines need to be reformatted after 2-3 years, otherwise they'll begin to slow down. Not the case w/ macs. Windows drivers do not always play well with each other. I've had problems w/ routers, printers and scanners, all b/c of drivers. I showed up to a job site where everybody had to bring their own laptop. We had to printout our work product. My MBP recognized the company's network printer and I had no problem printing. All the guys w/ windows machines had to go to the printer manufacturers website to download the drivers and then install them and then some had to restart to be able to finally print. I bought my MBP six months ago, but before I did, I did an apples to apples (no pun intended) comparison and the window's machines were just as expensive as my MBP. In a way the windows or apple computer argument is similar to the android or apple phone os argument. Apple designs and/or manufactures their hardware and controls the operating system, so things work extremely well together. Microsoft does not control the hardware and therefore you often have issues that cause problems. When I was in college, I didn't mind having to figure out why some piece of hardware wasn't working - I enjoyed learning what was happening. Now that I depend on my computer to make money, I just want it to work. I bought my MBP from Best Buy, they price matched b & h photo's price on the web, and I stacked on a 10% discount from the USPS moving packet, even though I didn't move. Apple doesn't have any spooky battery tech that I'm aware of. They have a lifespan. My personal experience is that I'll get a new laptop before the battery ever runs dead. The more charge/discharge cycles you put the battery through, the faster it wears out. The rest of your post essentially confirms what I said. Macs are ideal for people that don't know how to computer. I'm glad they work for you. 
By the way..macs by and large use hardware that's more or less identical to what is found in windows machines. Sometimes it's shaped a little funny or plugs in a little different but it's essentially the same stuff. The only "advantage" Mac computers have in that regard is they have tighter control over what hardware goes into their machines (and what can physically fit), so there's less 'incompatibility' but again, this is so people that can't computer won't mess it up. Are you sure about that? That's like saying Windows and OSX are both software and therefore identical. You can take a batch of the exact same electronic components and have very different PCB designs offering very different outcomes. There are also many different grades or levels of components with different MTBF, Temperature and V/I tolerance. These components can look identical but are not. Add to that engineers can design something without much testing and put out a product only slightly tested, or can test the crap out of it and fine tune the design for greater functionality and longevity. Along the same vein since Apple chooses its HW and that HW range is limited throughout their entire line they can fine tune the drivers for top performance. I can't prove Apple uses better components but I don't think you can prove they don't and lots of people, including myself have experienced Apple computers lasting much longer than PCs. My two Macs are ancient (2007 MBP and 2008 MBP) and I still use them everyday without any problems. I have a desktop PC that was giving me several BSODs with XP (atleast two per day) and the first year of W7 release (about one per couple days). I put OSX on it and never had a problem. I put linux on it and most flavors never gave me a problem after initial setup. Also just because the design of an operating system is well thought out and purposely easy to use does not mean it is not powerful or have advanced features (most of which the average user will never know about) Apple designs all their own PCBs. They have even paid Intel to build specific CPU designs for them as well (see the original Air). They are absolutely NOT the same as commodity hardware or some generic design from Foxconn, they pay Foxconn to build their design that they develop. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:11:25 AM EDT
[#14]
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Not only yes, but they are the same price as identical Windows laptops. Apple doesn't do low-end, and too many people confuse the $300 ACER they got from Tiger Direct for being comparable to a 15" MBP or whatnot. They ain't. Spec out a 15" Windows laptop to the same standards as the MBP, and it will cost the same. Unless they have changed their pricing, no, they are more expensive. And I've always compared like for like on hardware. They typically have nicer cases than many Windows PCs, but they should be viewed as disposable tech that will be upgraded in a relatively short period of time. 3 most common strategeries: You can spend a ton on high-end, avoiding the upgrade as long as possible (unless you enjoy spending $$ and always having high end hardware) 
You can buy middle of the road, upgrading every 2-3 years You can buy the cheapest thing you can get your hands on and get the job done and hope it lasts |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:13:44 AM EDT
[#15]
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Nope. Macs run the only successful consumer version of Unix. OSX is the best OS available, hands down, in user interface and capability -- it's just very different from Windows because BSD was developed in a very different way over the last thirty years. Windows is good too, I'm typing this on a Windows 10 machine at the moment (though my Mac is right next to me) -- but the beauty of OSX is that it can work very well for the computer retarded, while allowing people like me to be extremely productive as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Macs have hardware problems just like windows computers do. They also get malware (although admittedly not as frequent) Most problems with windows machines can be traced back to the user not knowing how to computer. Macs were designed specifically to combat this. People that have even the slightest knowledge of how a computer works will be far better served by a windows machine. It isn't hard to keep a windows machine running right and infection free. For those whose forward progress stopped with the microwave, a mac is a fantastic idea. Nope. Macs run the only successful consumer version of Unix. OSX is the best OS available, hands down, in user interface and capability -- it's just very different from Windows because BSD was developed in a very different way over the last thirty years. Windows is good too, I'm typing this on a Windows 10 machine at the moment (though my Mac is right next to me) -- but the beauty of OSX is that it can work very well for the computer retarded, while allowing people like me to be extremely productive as well. Let me echo that nope. I'm not a professional geek, nor am I the same level of hacker/coder as some people in this discussion, but I am also *not* a person who "doesn't know how to use a computer." I administrate my own heterogenous network of windows, Mac, and *nix, including firewalls, IDS, and *nix-based PBXs. I have a friggin' server rack in my house for pity sake. And my new MBP has really grown on me (used to be a Lenovo guy before they got a Chicom-ey and spyware/adware-ey). This MacBook Pro gives me BSD as the OS base, I can (and do) run Windows and *nix as virtual machines on the same laptop... it literally does everything in a nice sleek package. Shoulda done this years ago |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:15:23 AM EDT
[#16]
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15-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display Processor: Intel I7 2.5GHz Ram: 16 GB Video Card: None- Utilizes onboard CPU graphics. Screen Size: 15 inches Retail Price: 2500.00$ DELL Alienware ANW15-5357SLV Processor: Intel I7 2.5GHz Ram: 16 GB Video Card: GTX 970 (An Amazing Card) Screen Size: 15.6 inches Retail Price: 1500.00$ The difference in screen alone makes up for most of that price. Also, that is *NOT* a GTX 970. It is a GTX 970**M**, which is a completely different card. The onboard graphics in the Mac runs a screen with double the number of pixels that 970M is running. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:27:27 AM EDT
[#17]
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The difference in screen alone makes up for most of that price. Also, that is *NOT* a GTX 970. It is a GTX 970**M**, which is a completely different card. The onboard graphics in the Mac runs a screen with double the number of pixels that 970M is running. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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15-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display Processor: Intel I7 2.5GHz Ram: 16 GB Video Card: None- Utilizes onboard CPU graphics. Screen Size: 15 inches Retail Price: 2500.00$ DELL Alienware ANW15-5357SLV Processor: Intel I7 2.5GHz Ram: 16 GB Video Card: GTX 970 (An Amazing Card) Screen Size: 15.6 inches Retail Price: 1500.00$ The difference in screen alone makes up for most of that price. Also, that is *NOT* a GTX 970. It is a GTX 970**M**, which is a completely different card. The onboard graphics in the Mac runs a screen with double the number of pixels that 970M is running. Yeah, no shit. My 2012 MBP is non-Retina - because the last 3 (non-Apple) laptops I'd had before I got this one had the screen backlight shit the bed on me, and the Retina screen is a sealed unit. It's a 15" and the native resolution is 1680x1050. That's comparable than most 15" commodity laptops sold today, and it's 3-year-old second-tier Apple hardware. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:35:26 AM EDT
[#18]
They are not worth it to me, for what I do.
I use a laptop for word processing, surfing the web and on occasion (when I am away from home) backing up my camera memory cards and taking a first look at my photography. I already have all the software I need and don't feel like buying any new stuff. When I get a new computer, I install Word 2007, Adobe Photoshop CS4 and the latest Canon software and that's it. In the last 6 years, I've had three laptops. One was a netbook that cost $220, one was a 2-in-1 that cost $300 and my current laptop is a Toshiba that I paid $288 for at Best Buy open box. The netbook got smashed during a vacation, the 2-in-1's touch screen got cracked in a fall (it still works with the keyboard but the touch screen doesn't and it would cost almost as much to repair as to get a new one.) Now, I COULD have spent over a grand for a MacBook that would have lasted those six years...but why would I? This laptop will last me a good 3 years or so, minimum----more if I don't physically break it. That means I will have spent about $800 over 9 years for a computer that meets my needs. Why would I spend $1000 for a MacBook to last about the same amount of time AND then have to spend hundreds (maybe as much as a thousand) dollars more for the software I'd have to buy? That would make no sense, financially, not to mention that, having messed around with the Apple OS at schools I've taught at, I prefer Windows. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:57:37 AM EDT
[#19]
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No. But if she wants/needs OSX then get it. More than likely she doesn't need OSX and can do everything on Windows... Windows tends to support more software. Again, if she "just wants a MAC Book" then she probably doesn't know any software that does not work on OSX/Windows because the average person won't be limited by either OS. Meaning she wants it as a fashion statement. Which is fine. If that is what she wants, get it. My father was the same. Recently made the switch after using Windows since Windows 95. After much swearing, frustration and wasting hours of time & multiple trips to the Apple store and talking to various uneducated dumbass "geniuses" he blabbers on how awesome and painless it was to switch, even though it wasn't for him. But it was a fashion statement, had the money so he will enjoy it for those purposes. He wouldn't stoop to a "lowly Android" either. Long story short, does she want it? Can you afford it? Then go for it. Money tight and just want to get her something practical? Look for a good Windows based OS (non Mac book pros are really not worth the money). But you'll have to research, because build quality varies a lot between models of Windows based laptops. There really isn't anything special a Macbook Pro can do that any other PC can't. If you can't make money without a certain logo on the side of your PC you're doing it wrong. Likewise, desktops are far superior for work than any laptop. The extra screen(s) size & speed make it superior to any laptop out there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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we are shopping for new laptop for my daughter for college. She really wants a mac book. checking the pricing they are not cheap. So are they worth the extra money over a windows based laptop? No. But if she wants/needs OSX then get it. More than likely she doesn't need OSX and can do everything on Windows... Windows tends to support more software. Again, if she "just wants a MAC Book" then she probably doesn't know any software that does not work on OSX/Windows because the average person won't be limited by either OS. Meaning she wants it as a fashion statement. Which is fine. If that is what she wants, get it. My father was the same. Recently made the switch after using Windows since Windows 95. After much swearing, frustration and wasting hours of time & multiple trips to the Apple store and talking to various uneducated dumbass "geniuses" he blabbers on how awesome and painless it was to switch, even though it wasn't for him. But it was a fashion statement, had the money so he will enjoy it for those purposes. He wouldn't stoop to a "lowly Android" either. Long story short, does she want it? Can you afford it? Then go for it. Money tight and just want to get her something practical? Look for a good Windows based OS (non Mac book pros are really not worth the money). But you'll have to research, because build quality varies a lot between models of Windows based laptops. Quoted:
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$1,500 facebook machine. Yes, Apple built a multi-billion dollar product lineup with millions upon millions of users because there computers are only capable of checking facebook or You are mad because your not making $1,500 a day WITH a macbook pro as your main computer. There really isn't anything special a Macbook Pro can do that any other PC can't. If you can't make money without a certain logo on the side of your PC you're doing it wrong. Likewise, desktops are far superior for work than any laptop. The extra screen(s) size & speed make it superior to any laptop out there. Know how I know you're wrong? I'm an iOS developer. Can't run Xcode/build iOS apps on a PC. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 8:59:08 AM EDT
[#20]
My 2011 MacBook Air starts up immediately and runs like new.
I will never buy another PC. I'm a convert. Buy once, cry once. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 9:08:49 AM EDT
[#21]
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The difference in screen alone makes up for most of that price. Also, that is *NOT* a GTX 970. It is a GTX 970**M**, which is a completely different card. The onboard graphics in the Mac runs a screen with double the number of pixels that 970M is running. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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15-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display Processor: Intel I7 2.5GHz Ram: 16 GB Video Card: None- Utilizes onboard CPU graphics. Screen Size: 15 inches Retail Price: 2500.00$ DELL Alienware ANW15-5357SLV Processor: Intel I7 2.5GHz Ram: 16 GB Video Card: GTX 970 (An Amazing Card) Screen Size: 15.6 inches Retail Price: 1500.00$ The difference in screen alone makes up for most of that price. Also, that is *NOT* a GTX 970. It is a GTX 970**M**, which is a completely different card. The onboard graphics in the Mac runs a screen with double the number of pixels that 970M is running. Not only that, but the 15-inch MBP at $2500 has an AMD Radeon R9 M370X with 2GB discreet graphics card. The lower model at $2k has only an Intel Iris (which while not a gaming GPU is actually a pretty dang good onboard GPU). I have multiple times specifically tried to get a Windows laptop that spec'd out close to a MBP and every time, I either had to compromise on important things (most people comparing "specs" neglect the important difference between a battery that lasts 8-10 hours on a Mac and one that lasts 2 on a PC) or the PC laptop spec'd out at or above the cost of the Mac (even with corporate discounts). Every time. I challenge one of these "PCs are half the price for more laptop" people to find one and post it. I guarantee the price will be very close or there will be significant compromises in screen, battery, or other areas. And using a 13" Retina MBP every day at work, I can say with 100% certainty that the Retina screen is worth every penny and my next personal MBP will definitely have it (our current 2011 model doesn't, but I'm not looking to replace it anytime soon). ETA: For clarity |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 9:31:09 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
15-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display Processor: Intel I7 2.5GHz Ram: 16 GB Video Card: None- Utilizes onboard CPU graphics. Screen Size: 15 inches Retail Price: 2500.00$ DELL Alienware ANW15-5357SLV Processor: Intel I7 2.5GHz Ram: 16 GB Video Card: GTX 970 (An Amazing Card) Screen Size: 15.6 inches Retail Price: 1500.00$ Comparing a 4.5lb .7" thick MBP to a 7.3lb 1.4" Windows laptop? Try comparing apples to apples. And yes I made a funny. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 9:42:14 AM EDT
[#23]
Add $299 to the MacBook price for AppleCare. The standard 1 year warranty is worthless.
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Posted: 8/26/2015 9:53:19 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My 2011 MacBook Air starts up immediately and runs like new. I will never buy another PC. I'm a convert. Buy once, cry once. Computers/tech in general is disposable, the comment "buy once, cry once" does not apply to something that is worthless in 4-5 years anyways. You are not buying a 69 DZ 302 camaro when you buy a mac book. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 9:56:34 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Computers/tech in general is disposable, the comment "buy once, cry once" does not apply to something that is worthless in 4-5 years anyways. You are not buying a 69 DZ 302 camaro when you buy a mac book. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My 2011 MacBook Air starts up immediately and runs like new. I will never buy another PC. I'm a convert. Buy once, cry once. Computers/tech in general is disposable, the comment "buy once, cry once" does not apply to something that is worthless in 4-5 years anyways. You are not buying a 69 DZ 302 camaro when you buy a mac book. I'm still using the MacBook Pro I bought in 2010. The Mac mini on my wife's desk is a core solo, I don't even remember when I got it, it was one of the earliest models. And neither one is worthless and they both still do their jobs well. I earned my BSCS and have almost finished my MSIA with my laptop. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 10:08:36 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm still using the MacBook Pro I bought in 2010. The Mac mini on my wife's desk is a core solo, I don't even remember when I got it, it was one of the earliest models. And neither one is worthless and they both still do their jobs well. I earned my BSCS and have almost finished my MSIA with my laptop. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My 2011 MacBook Air starts up immediately and runs like new. I will never buy another PC. I'm a convert. Buy once, cry once. Computers/tech in general is disposable, the comment "buy once, cry once" does not apply to something that is worthless in 4-5 years anyways. You are not buying a 69 DZ 302 camaro when you buy a mac book. I'm still using the MacBook Pro I bought in 2010. The Mac mini on my wife's desk is a core solo, I don't even remember when I got it, it was one of the earliest models. And neither one is worthless and they both still do their jobs well. I earned my BSCS and have almost finished my MSIA with my laptop. I bought my wife a core i3 toshiba laptop in 2010 and it still works perfectly. My 2008 MBP overheats and can barely process a webpage with too many pictures/videos. My point? We're really arguing hardware within the laptop, not the name of the brand. This stuff is still disposable, to fight that concept just means you're wasting more money then the person who's accepted this. I have no data tied to any one computer and could buy a new cheap laptop and be back working before you could make it to your "genius" appointment. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 10:08:52 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Add $299 to the MacBook price for AppleCare. The standard 1 year warranty is worthless. It's less worthless than most PC manufacturer's warranties. In most areas of the country, you make an online appointment and go get your Macbook fixed (sometimes on the spot, sometimes in 24-48 hours). Every other brand requires you to send it to them sometimes for weeks. Outside warranty repairs with Apple are not insanely priced either. I've never bought AppleCare for a Macbook and never felt I needed it. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 10:14:08 AM EDT
[#28]
My inlaws bought a super expensive Mac computer for my sister in law that was going to college. She ended up not using it for anything other than social media and it eventually got stolen at a party.
Any iProduct you're paying a large amount of money for an apple sticker. The people saying a windows machine and apple machine with similar specs cost the same are crazy IMO. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 10:31:58 AM EDT
[#29]
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No, you didn't. Go ahead and post the spec sheet from Dell's website, and I'll do what I always have to do in these threads and explain to you why you didn't get anything equivalent to that macbook. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not only yes, but they are the same price as identical Windows laptops. Apple doesn't do low-end, and too many people confuse the $300 ACER they got from Tiger Direct for being comparable to a 15" MBP or whatnot. They ain't. Spec out a 15" Windows laptop to the same standards as the MBP, and it will cost the same. That's not true. I got a Dell XPS for ~$750 with the specs of a MBP that cost about $2,500. (looked almost identical to a MBP too, which is probably why it got stolen). No, you didn't. Go ahead and post the spec sheet from Dell's website, and I'll do what I always have to do in these threads and explain to you why you didn't get anything equivalent to that macbook. http://www.dell.com/us/dfh/p/xps-15z/pd (it looks like the main site only has a placeholder, and this is an incomplete list, since Dell has replaced the 15z with a different model) EDIT: Found the system configuration for my order: http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/en/19/product-support/servicetag/7RTBDT1/configuration Comparing to the 2012 MBP 15", which I believe was the one that was available when I bought it: https://support.apple.com/kb/SP694?locale=en_US Screen: 15.4" 1680x1050 (Mac) 15.6" 1920x1080 (Dell) Processor: 2.6GHz (3.6 Turbo) Core i7 (Mac), 2.8GHz (3.5 Turbo) Intel Core i7-2640M (Dell) RAM: 8GB 1600MHz (Mac), 8GB 1333MHz (Dell) Note that the Dell was expandable to 16GB, where AFAIK that model Mac was not Hard Drive: 750GB HDD (Mac), 320GB HDD (Dell) I couldn't configure hard drives on a refurbed model, and the base model Macs then didn't come with SSDs, though they were an expensive option Graphics: nVIDIA geForce GT 650M 1GB (Mac), nVIDIA geForce GT 525M 2GB (Dell) The card in the Mac, despite less memory is about 40% better performing, though the 525M could handle most games of the day at decent settings Size: 0.95"x14.35"x9.82", 5.6lbs (Mac), 0.97"x14.9",9.8", 5.5lbs (Dell) DVD Drive: 8x SuperDrive (Mac), 8x DVD Burner (Dell) Construction: Aluminum (both) Keyboard: Backlit (both) Wireless: I don't know what model the Dell had, but it was 802.11n compatible and it had Bluetooth, I don't know what version. The Mac came with 802.11n and Bluetooth 4.0 Battery: 77.5wHr up to 7 Hrs (Mac), 64wHr up to 8 Hrs, 22 mins (Dell) Camera: 720p (Mac), 1.3MP (Dell) So similar size, weight, and construction - the Dell has a nicer screen and worse graphics, a smaller hard drive (which is not a difficult upgrade - SSDs were running about 0.8$/GB then, so you could have picked up a 512GB SSD for about $400, or a 1TB HDD for somewhere around $200-300). Battery life on the Dell is probably a little worse in practice, everything else is pretty much a wash. At a price difference of well over a grand, it was no contest. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 10:36:00 AM EDT
[#30]
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A $300-$400 intel i3-i5 laptop with $100 samsung evo 250gb SSD upgrade is probably enough laptop for 95% of the population. Toss in it the gutter and go buy another if you have any major issues which you probably wont. A Yugo would probably be enough car for 95% of the population too. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 10:46:45 AM EDT
[#31]
I've never understood why some people care so much how other people spend their own money.
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Posted: 8/26/2015 10:51:03 AM EDT
[#32]
I always say this about Macs and OS X - it's easier for less computer literate people to use (while still being quite powerful), but more difficult to fuck up.
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Posted: 8/26/2015 11:14:12 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A Yugo would probably be enough car for 95% of the population too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A $300-$400 intel i3-i5 laptop with $100 samsung evo 250gb SSD upgrade is probably enough laptop for 95% of the population. Toss in it the gutter and go buy another if you have any major issues which you probably wont. A Yugo would probably be enough car for 95% of the population too. Core i3-i5 proc and all the things that go with it plus a sumsung EVO SSD is yugo class stuff? It's official, ARFcom is gone full derp. Do you wear desinger jeans? |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 11:16:54 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've never understood why some people care so much how other people spend their own money. Did you read the thread title? Hint: OP is asking people if they feel a mac is worth it or not and people are responding.
What is going on with this site lately? |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 11:20:59 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you read the thread title? Hint: OP is asking people if they feel a mac is worth it or not and people are responding.
What is going on with this site lately? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've never understood why some people care so much how other people spend their own money. Did you read the thread title? Hint: OP is asking people if they feel a mac is worth it or not and people are responding.
What is going on with this site lately? These threads always turn into fights about what is more expensive, hence my comment. To answer the original question, I feel they are worth every penny. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 11:24:16 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Core i3-i5 proc and all the things that go with it plus a sumsung EVO SSD is yugo class stuff? It's official, ARFcom is gone full derp. Do you wear desinger jeans? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A $300-$400 intel i3-i5 laptop with $100 samsung evo 250gb SSD upgrade is probably enough laptop for 95% of the population. Toss in it the gutter and go buy another if you have any major issues which you probably wont. A Yugo would probably be enough car for 95% of the population too. Core i3-i5 proc and all the things that go with it plus a sumsung EVO SSD is yugo class stuff? It's official, ARFcom is gone full derp. Do you wear desinger jeans? What do you drive? |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 11:27:50 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do you drive? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A $300-$400 intel i3-i5 laptop with $100 samsung evo 250gb SSD upgrade is probably enough laptop for 95% of the population. Toss in it the gutter and go buy another if you have any major issues which you probably wont. A Yugo would probably be enough car for 95% of the population too. Core i3-i5 proc and all the things that go with it plus a sumsung EVO SSD is yugo class stuff? It's official, ARFcom is gone full derp. Do you wear desinger jeans? What do you drive? Depends on the day, why does that matter? |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 12:12:50 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Depends on the day, why does that matter? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A $300-$400 intel i3-i5 laptop with $100 samsung evo 250gb SSD upgrade is probably enough laptop for 95% of the population. Toss in it the gutter and go buy another if you have any major issues which you probably wont. A Yugo would probably be enough car for 95% of the population too. Core i3-i5 proc and all the things that go with it plus a sumsung EVO SSD is yugo class stuff? It's official, ARFcom is gone full derp. Do you wear desinger jeans? What do you drive? Depends on the day, why does that matter? Why drive anything but a Yugo if it'll get you there? |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 12:40:57 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Apple puts millions of dollars into proper cooling and designing the internals of their machines. The other manufacturers in general just go big and lots of fans because that's easy. With all due respect, if Apple really invests that much money into proper cooling, they need to fire their engineers. As mentioned in previous posts, I've PERSONALLY have documented thermal issues they've had with several of their models. Try this for a google search. Google searrch of keywords "macbook pro 2011 overheating" Some of their models run fine, and don't overheat. But some of their models Apple cut a few corners on (heatsink wise), and people pushing the machine a little harder run into problems. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 12:47:07 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
With all due respect, if Apple really invests that much money into proper cooling, they need to fire their engineers. As mentioned in previous posts, I've PERSONALLY have documented thermal issues they've had with several of their models. Try this for a google search. https://www.google.com/search?q=macbook+pro+2011+overheating&oq=mac+book+pro+2011+over&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.7423j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8 Some of their models run fine, and don't overheat. But some of their models Apple cut a few corners on (heatsink wise), and people pushing the machine a little harder run into problems. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Apple puts millions of dollars into proper cooling and designing the internals of their machines. The other manufacturers in general just go big and lots of fans because that's easy. With all due respect, if Apple really invests that much money into proper cooling, they need to fire their engineers. As mentioned in previous posts, I've PERSONALLY have documented thermal issues they've had with several of their models. Try this for a google search. https://www.google.com/search?q=macbook+pro+2011+overheating&oq=mac+book+pro+2011+over&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.7423j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8 Some of their models run fine, and don't overheat. But some of their models Apple cut a few corners on (heatsink wise), and people pushing the machine a little harder run into problems. There's design issues and production issues. Apple has had runs of machines with production issues. That wasn't Apple cutting corners, it was Foxconn or whoever made that particular batch cutting corners or outright fucking up in production. There's definitely more than one factory at play. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 1:05:15 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why drive anything but a Yugo if it'll get you there? So you're saying you have a Mac because you want to look cool? 
Just playin' with you, bro. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 1:09:30 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryWhy drive anything but a Yugo if it'll get you there? So every car has a yugo engine, transmission etc? Remember, mac laptops have the same hardware inside of them as a PC but rapped up in a nice looking package. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 1:18:28 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
DELL Alienware ANW15-5357SLV I think every Alienware a co-worker has bought has blown up or failed horribly. BTW, I'd also stay away from a brand new model Apple laptop or phone. Some friends who have a habit of purchasing the new Intel Core i87 whizbang the same day they became available seem to have a high failure rate. Then they get stuck in a cycle of fail as their faulty mobo is replaced with another early production mobo. I think their production processes settle down after a couple months and they become a lot more reliable. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 1:30:06 PM EDT
[#44]
We got our daughter a MacBook Pro for college. She loves it and they are proven laptops.
However, take a peek at the Dell 13 7000s. I have about 7 of them in play at customer sites (EHR and production/manufacturing floor) and they have been awesome performers so far. I think we'll slowly start replacing all of the HP Revolves currently in play. I liked them so much that I ordered one for myself...a Dell 13 7000 i7, 8GB, 256GB SSD, 1920x1080 FHD, Windows 10. I love the damn thing and I have already retired my other two work laptops. During the day it fills the role of my work laptop (IT solutions provider) and in the off time it makes a very nice tablet/game/consumption device--absolutely beautiful display. I do wish it had a built-in ethernet port for router/switch configs but a USB dongle fills the requirement. I haven't had this much fun with a new device for a long time. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 2:10:11 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So every car has a yugo engine, transmission etc? Remember, mac laptops have the same hardware inside of them as a PC but rapped up in a nice looking package. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why drive anything but a Yugo if it'll get you there? So every car has a yugo engine, transmission etc? Remember, mac laptops have the same hardware inside of them as a PC but rapped up in a nice looking package. *sigh* This is why I try to stay out of computer religion threads. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 3:05:47 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's less worthless than most PC manufacturer's warranties. In most areas of the country, you make an online appointment and go get your Macbook fixed (sometimes on the spot, sometimes in 24-48 hours). Every other brand requires you to send it to them sometimes for weeks. Outside warranty repairs with Apple are not insanely priced either. I've never bought AppleCare for a Macbook and never felt I needed it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Add $299 to the MacBook price for AppleCare. The standard 1 year warranty is worthless. It's less worthless than most PC manufacturer's warranties. In most areas of the country, you make an online appointment and go get your Macbook fixed (sometimes on the spot, sometimes in 24-48 hours). Every other brand requires you to send it to them sometimes for weeks. Outside warranty repairs with Apple are not insanely priced either. I've never bought AppleCare for a Macbook and never felt I needed it. No. HP's business-class warranties are on-site, meaning they come to you. Extended care packs are available, should you wish to extend the warranty period. Standard warranty on most HP business-class machines are three years, all of that on-site. Can't speak for anyone else, but that's how HP works. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 3:09:59 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. HP's business-class warranties are on-site, meaning they come to you. Extended care packs are available, should you wish to extend the warranty period. Standard warranty on most HP business-class machines are three years, all of that on-site. Can't speak for anyone else, but that's how HP works. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Add $299 to the MacBook price for AppleCare. The standard 1 year warranty is worthless. It's less worthless than most PC manufacturer's warranties. In most areas of the country, you make an online appointment and go get your Macbook fixed (sometimes on the spot, sometimes in 24-48 hours). Every other brand requires you to send it to them sometimes for weeks. Outside warranty repairs with Apple are not insanely priced either. I've never bought AppleCare for a Macbook and never felt I needed it. No. HP's business-class warranties are on-site, meaning they come to you. Extended care packs are available, should you wish to extend the warranty period. Standard warranty on most HP business-class machines are three years, all of that on-site. Can't speak for anyone else, but that's how HP works. Who's talking about business-class warranties and service contracts? It was said the standard 1 year warranty on Macbooks is worthless. It's not and most consumer laptops come with a worse one (similar term, typically harder to get service). Dude's looking to buy a laptop for his daughter, so let's compare apples to apples. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 3:35:53 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who's talking about business-class warranties and service contracts? It was said the standard 1 year warranty on Macbooks is worthless. It's not and most consumer laptops come with a worse one (similar term, typically harder to get service). Dude's looking to buy a laptop for his daughter, so let's compare apples to apples. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Add $299 to the MacBook price for AppleCare. The standard 1 year warranty is worthless. It's less worthless than most PC manufacturer's warranties. In most areas of the country, you make an online appointment and go get your Macbook fixed (sometimes on the spot, sometimes in 24-48 hours). Every other brand requires you to send it to them sometimes for weeks. Outside warranty repairs with Apple are not insanely priced either. I've never bought AppleCare for a Macbook and never felt I needed it. No. HP's business-class warranties are on-site, meaning they come to you. Extended care packs are available, should you wish to extend the warranty period. Standard warranty on most HP business-class machines are three years, all of that on-site. Can't speak for anyone else, but that's how HP works. Who's talking about business-class warranties and service contracts? It was said the standard 1 year warranty on Macbooks is worthless. It's not and most consumer laptops come with a worse one (similar term, typically harder to get service). Dude's looking to buy a laptop for his daughter, so let's compare apples to apples. What do you think an HP Probook costs? They are VERY competitively-priced, when compared to MBPs, but I couldn't tell you how the specs compare. (and I haven't seen ANYTHING here that suggests she need a high-end LT or that a Probook wouldn't fit her needs) There's no reason he cannot buy her a business-class laptop and many of us here would suggest just that, should she not need something Apple-specific or OSX-specific. One of the reasons I'd suggest a business-class laptop is for the superior STANDARD warranty. If you're buying an HP consumer-grade LT, no warranty in the world will help you. The same could be said for a LOT of other consumer-grade latops. |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 4:11:15 PM EDT
[#49]
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*sigh* This is why I try to stay out of computer religion threads. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why drive anything but a Yugo if it'll get you there? So every car has a yugo engine, transmission etc? Remember, mac laptops have the same hardware inside of them as a PC but rapped up in a nice looking package. *sigh* This is why I try to stay out of computer religion threads. I have a mac book pro along with a bunch of windows laptops. Are you saying macs have different hardware under the hood? |
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Posted: 8/26/2015 4:40:29 PM EDT
[#50]
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I have a mac book pro along with a bunch of windows laptops. Are you saying macs have different hardware under the hood? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why drive anything but a Yugo if it'll get you there? So every car has a yugo engine, transmission etc? Remember, mac laptops have the same hardware inside of them as a PC but rapped up in a nice looking package. *sigh* This is why I try to stay out of computer religion threads. I have a mac book pro along with a bunch of windows laptops. Are you saying macs have different hardware under the hood?
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