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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:36:48 AM EDT
[#1]
The Supreme Court ruled eminent domain can be used to put private land in the hands of private concerns if it will be for "the greater good", instead of just for public works projects.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:42:28 AM EDT
[#2]
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And when more land developers die of lead poisoning they might Reconsider their decisions. One day some land owner with special skills is not gonna roll over And sell his land. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The SCOTUS pretty much killed any concept of property rights in this country when it ruled the the government can take your land to give to a developer so that they can increase their tax base. To do good things with the new money of course. One day some land owner with special skills is not gonna roll over And sell his land. Gotta do what you gotta do. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:44:11 AM EDT
[#3]
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You mean like this? Enron and its employees were the largest contributors to President Bush's campaigns over the years, and Enron gave more money to politicians in the last election cycle than did any other energy company. Since 1993, its employees and its chairman, Kenneth L. Lay, have donated nearly $2 million to Mr. Bush. In the 2000 election cycle, more than $1 million was donated to federal political campaigns, most of it to Republicans. Mr. Lay also had powerful friends. He recruited Wendy L. Gramm, the top commodities regulator in the administration of President Bush's father and the wife of Senator Phil Gramm, Republican of Texas, to serve on Enron's board in 1993. The appointment came just five weeks after Ms. Gramm helped push through a ruling at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission that exempted many energy contracts from regulation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Who wants to take a bet that the owners of the these companies and the politicians who support them are 100% republican? Not all republicans love freedom. Just look at some of those in congress and other parts of lower gov. Freedom is hard. Corporate Crony-ists are generally Democrats from what I've seen. Then you aren't looking very close then broseph. You mean like this? Enron and its employees were the largest contributors to President Bush's campaigns over the years, and Enron gave more money to politicians in the last election cycle than did any other energy company. Since 1993, its employees and its chairman, Kenneth L. Lay, have donated nearly $2 million to Mr. Bush. In the 2000 election cycle, more than $1 million was donated to federal political campaigns, most of it to Republicans. Mr. Lay also had powerful friends. He recruited Wendy L. Gramm, the top commodities regulator in the administration of President Bush's father and the wife of Senator Phil Gramm, Republican of Texas, to serve on Enron's board in 1993. The appointment came just five weeks after Ms. Gramm helped push through a ruling at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission that exempted many energy contracts from regulation. Ken Lay was a friend of the Clintons as well. Clinton and Lay had many interactions during the Clinton years in the White House. Lay was on Clinton's Council for Sustainable Development. Lay gave a lot of money to both parties since the 80's. http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/newsletter/2002/0302d.shtml According to The Washington Post, Enron or its executives have given money to nearly half of all current members of the House of Representatives and almost three-quarters of all of the Senators. Clearly, Judicial Watch is the only organization that can effectively and impartially investigate Enron because the company?s ties to the politically powerful run far too deep. Consider the following: Democrats •The Washington Post reports, ?According to internal Enron documents and the recollections of former employees, Chairman Kenneth L. Lay had the ear of top Democrats in the 1980s and ?90s.? •According to PoliticalMoneyLine, Enron contributed $532,000 in unregulated ?soft money? to Democratic candidates during Election 2000. •Enron?s political action committee gave $10,000 to the New Democrat Network, headed by Senator Joseph Lieberman. Lieberman is now Chairman of the Government Affairs Committee, which will now lead the investigation into the collapse of Enron. •Time magazine, among others, reports that Bill Clinton personally brokered a ?sweetheart? deal between Enron and India, which allowed the company to build a $3 billion power plant near Bombay. Four days before the deal went through, Enron gave $100,000 to the Democrats. •Enron participated in several of the illegal Clinton-Gore trade missions, to India and Russia, that are the subject of JW?s Chinagate lawsuit. •Lawyers who helped cover up Bill Clinton?s crimes are now trying to save Enron. Robert Bennett (a defendant in JW?s case on behalf of Dolly Kyle Browning for defamation of character) and Earl J. Silbert (who helped cover up emailgate) are now on Enron?s legal team. Republicans •The Washington Post reports that Republicans received 73% of total donations from Enron, its executives and employees over the past 12 years. •According to PoliticalMoneyLine, Enron contributed $623,000 to GOP groups during Election 2000. •Enron CEO Kenneth Lay personally contributed $325,000 in unregulated soft money to GOP campaigns during Election 2000. He donated $100,000 to Bush?s inaugural festivities. •The Bush Administration refuses to honor the law and Judicial Watch?s Freedom of Information Act requests regarding Enron, suggesting they may have something to hide. •At a White House press conference, Press Secretary Ari Fleischer dodged questions as to whether or not the Bush Administration is looking into ties between Enron and the Bush and Clinton Administrations. Fleischer also lied to the media when he said the White House was not called by Bush cabinet secretaries over the Enron scandal. JW began probing the Enron collapse in Fall 2001 and currently has four lawsuits to get to the truth of the matter. JW will soon file suit on behalf of the employees and investors left penniless by corruption at Enron. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:44:44 AM EDT
[#4]
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Of course those who come out to your property and tell you how much its worth works for the gov. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've always thought that when the government takes someone's property, that it should be market value multiplied by a facture of 10. This "fair market value" is a bunch of bullshit. Of course those who come out to your property and tell you how much its worth works for the gov. How's the game is played. Pretty simple, collage got an appraiser that appraised my land as farmland. I got an appraiser that appraised my land as prime multi family development. We met somewhere in the middle. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:48:45 AM EDT
[#5]
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Of course those who come out to your property and tell you how much its worth works for the gov. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've always thought that when the government takes someone's property, that it should be market value multiplied by a facture of 10. This "fair market value" is a bunch of bullshit. Of course those who come out to your property and tell you how much its worth works for the gov. Actually, in Texas, it has to be three disinterested landowners who live in the county - with preference given to those that both parties agree on (meaning the parties can agree to choose specific landowners if both agree) Another good link on the process: http://recenter.tamu.edu/pdf/394.pdf |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:49:17 AM EDT
[#6]
Ken Lay was a friend of the Clintons as well. Clinton and Lay had many interactions during the Clinton years in the White House. Lay was on Clinton's Council for Sustainable Development. Lay gave a lot of money to both parties since the 80's.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/archive/newsletter/2002/0302d.shtml According to The Washington Post, Enron or its executives have given money to nearly half of all current members of the House of Representatives and almost three-quarters of all of the Senators. Clearly, Judicial Watch is the only organization that can effectively and impartially investigate Enron because the company?s ties to the politically powerful run far too deep. Consider the following: Democrats •The Washington Post reports, ?According to internal Enron documents and the recollections of former employees, Chairman Kenneth L. Lay had the ear of top Democrats in the 1980s and ?90s.? •According to PoliticalMoneyLine, Enron contributed $532,000 in unregulated ?soft money? to Democratic candidates during Election 2000. •Enron?s political action committee gave $10,000 to the New Democrat Network, headed by Senator Joseph Lieberman. Lieberman is now Chairman of the Government Affairs Committee, which will now lead the investigation into the collapse of Enron. •Time magazine, among others, reports that Bill Clinton personally brokered a ?sweetheart? deal between Enron and India, which allowed the company to build a $3 billion power plant near Bombay. Four days before the deal went through, Enron gave $100,000 to the Democrats. •Enron participated in several of the illegal Clinton-Gore trade missions, to India and Russia, that are the subject of JW?s Chinagate lawsuit. •Lawyers who helped cover up Bill Clinton?s crimes are now trying to save Enron. Robert Bennett (a defendant in JW?s case on behalf of Dolly Kyle Browning for defamation of character) and Earl J. Silbert (who helped cover up emailgate) are now on Enron?s legal team. Republicans •The Washington Post reports that Republicans received 73% of total donations from Enron, its executives and employees over the past 12 years. •According to PoliticalMoneyLine, Enron contributed $623,000 to GOP groups during Election 2000. •Enron CEO Kenneth Lay personally contributed $325,000 in unregulated soft money to GOP campaigns during Election 2000. He donated $100,000 to Bush?s inaugural festivities. •The Bush Administration refuses to honor the law and Judicial Watch?s Freedom of Information Act requests regarding Enron, suggesting they may have something to hide. •At a White House press conference, Press Secretary Ari Fleischer dodged questions as to whether or not the Bush Administration is looking into ties between Enron and the Bush and Clinton Administrations. Fleischer also lied to the media when he said the White House was not called by Bush cabinet secretaries over the Enron scandal. JW began probing the Enron collapse in Fall 2001 and currently has four lawsuits to get to the truth of the matter. JW will soon file suit on behalf of the employees and investors left penniless by corruption at Enron. Nothing will ever come about it either. The courts are just as corrupt as the corperations. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:55:07 AM EDT
[#7]
I'd love to have a gov't entity come and serve me with papers for an eminent domain process.
The Kelo case was shepherded to the SC because it was flawed, typical smoke and mirrors to mislead the public. ED is hated because people do not fully understand what is happening, and feel that they are being cheated. Well, that's true, they are being short changed. What is not recognized is the fact that there are two "takings" of an ED action; the first is the property itself; the second is the taking of the right to own that particular property. The taking of a right is a tort, an injury. It is incumbent of the property owner to assert these two claims at the beginning of the action. And, based on well establish SC cases, the compensation of the tort damage in an ED case is valued at ten times the value of the actual property. That is, the owner making a proper claim of both takings places the cost of the ED at 11 eleven times the actual property value. Would you accept payment of 11x as settlement of an ED action? Makes it a whole lot less painful. And after giving proper notice to the agency serving the ED it's amazing how pipelines roads, parks, etc. can suddenly be relocated and routed differently! That's why Kelo was chosen, the property owner did not make a claim for just compensation of their tort injury, only bitched about unfair real estate compensation. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 1:11:32 PM EDT
[#8]
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A private company isn't making anyone do anything. When push comes to shove, it would be government guns that were pointed at people that didn't want to accept this. There you have it. So the private company buys a few Congresscritters (money, scotch, women, little boys, whatever it takes) and lets gov do the dirty work. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 1:14:06 PM EDT
[#9]
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Who wants to take a bet that the owners of the these companies and the politicians who support them are 100% republican? In MA it would be Dems. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 1:15:46 PM EDT
[#10]
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Roads, schools, highways, water, fuel, sewer, power lines all come under the eminent domain laws. Power Company needs new powerline what are they to do if someone doesn't want to sell? Now shopping malls are an entirely different thing. Route around the property. <<shrugs>> |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 1:20:58 PM EDT
[#11]
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http://michellemalkin.com/2011/04/22/donald-trumps-eminent-domain-empire/ Trump: I happen to agree with [the Kelo decision] 100 percent, not that I would want to use it. But the fact is, if you have a person living in an area that’s not even necessarily a good area, and government, whether it’s local or whatever, government wants to build a tremendous economic development, where a lot of people are going to be put to work and make area that’s not good into a good area, and move the person that’s living there into a better place — now, I know it might not be their choice — but move the person to a better place and yet create thousands upon thousands of jobs and beautification and lots of other things, I think it happens to be good. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Corporate Crony-ists are generally Democrats from what I've seen. http://michellemalkin.com/2011/04/22/donald-trumps-eminent-domain-empire/ Trump: I happen to agree with [the Kelo decision] 100 percent, not that I would want to use it. But the fact is, if you have a person living in an area that’s not even necessarily a good area, and government, whether it’s local or whatever, government wants to build a tremendous economic development, where a lot of people are going to be put to work and make area that’s not good into a good area, and move the person that’s living there into a better place — now, I know it might not be their choice — but move the person to a better place and yet create thousands upon thousands of jobs and beautification and lots of other things, I think it happens to be good. People like Trump are aware that the Kelo property never got developed right? |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 1:20:58 PM EDT
[#12]
Texas repealed Texas Title 10. General Government, Subtitle E, Chapter 2206 because TransCanada, the energy company behind the Keystone XL pipeline, was using it to force private property owners out of their property so they could run a pipeline ... just like this story from South Carolina. At issue are the legal rights of landowners to prevent corporations from condemning private lands to build oil and gas infrastructure projects. The Keystone XL is being constructed to carry oil from Canada's tar sands mines to Texas, and its 485-mile southern leg from Oklahoma to near Houston was completed this month. Depending on the outcome of Crawford's case, TransCanada possibly could be forced to dig up the section of the pipe that runs through her property. The northern segment still needs State Department approval because it crosses an international boundary. Nothing in the news story about the ranch owners killing anybody. 
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Posted: 8/2/2015 1:27:20 PM EDT
[#13]
Because corporations own this country. Why shouldn't they have this ability? Why do you hate capitalism, bro?
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Posted: 8/2/2015 1:28:49 PM EDT
[#14]
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Route around the property. <<shrugs>> Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Roads, schools, highways, water, fuel, sewer, power lines all come under the eminent domain laws. Power Company needs new powerline what are they to do if someone doesn't want to sell? Now shopping malls are an entirely different thing. Route around the property. <<shrugs>> And if the property that they route around will not sell? |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 1:30:38 PM EDT
[#15]
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And if the property that they route around will not sell? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Roads, schools, highways, water, fuel, sewer, power lines all come under the eminent domain laws. Power Company needs new powerline what are they to do if someone doesn't want to sell? Now shopping malls are an entirely different thing. Route around the property. <<shrugs>> And if the property that they route around will not sell? Why should I be forced to sell my property for the good of a corperation? |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 1:43:31 PM EDT
[#16]
Are corporations people?
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Posted: 8/2/2015 1:45:43 PM EDT
[#17]
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Are corporations people? According to certian parts of gov they are. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 1:49:54 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And when more land developers die of lead poisoning they might Reconsider their decisions. No one needs to get shot. 50-100 citizens with rifles would stop the whole process just as it did at the Bundy ranch. Problem is, few people want to risk themselves to save someone else because the government has shown that if they can ID you they'll come after each citizen that individually who stands against them. I think we're reaching the point where anyone who groups up to stand against the government needs to wear masks. Which is a mark of a third world nation. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 2:01:10 PM EDT
[#19]
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Because corporations own this country. Why shouldn't they have this ability? Why do you hate capitalism, bro? Not capitalism. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 2:06:26 PM EDT
[#20]
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' You clearly do not know what a libertarian is. Libertarians are not MYOB, they are "Get the fucking government out of peoples business. Unless someone is violating someone else's rights, it isn't the government business." Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A true Libertarian would claim "not my land, not my business." If it meets the criteria for a public work then take you money and move on. Its a bitch but without the law there would be no power lines, sewer, water or even roads. I understand some here want a return to the caveman days but that isn't going to happen. We know those with the "Pushing up Daisies talk" are just smoke blowers. You clearly do not know what a libertarian is. Libertarians are not MYOB, they are "Get the fucking government out of peoples business. Unless someone is violating someone else's rights, it isn't the government business." GOP-e believers are always trying to misinterpret that because it's the ideal they think they want to be, but in actuality cannot be due to their desire to control the actions of others when those actions have no bearing on their own lives. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 2:08:02 PM EDT
[#21]
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No one needs to get shot. 50-100 citizens with rifles would stop the whole process just as it did at the Bundy ranch. Problem is, few people want to risk themselves to save someone else because the government has shown that if they can ID you they'll come after each citizen that individually who stands against them. I think we're reaching the point where anyone who groups up to stand against the government needs to wear masks. Which is a mark of a third world nation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And when more land developers die of lead poisoning they might Reconsider their decisions. Problem is, few people want to risk themselves to save someone else because the government has shown that if they can ID you they'll come after each citizen that individually who stands against them. I think we're reaching the point where anyone who groups up to stand against the government needs to wear masks. Which is a mark of a third world nation. That isn't your SOP anyway? I try to stay as anonymous as possible. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 2:14:47 PM EDT
[#22]
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That isn't your SOP anyway? I try to stay as anonymous as possible. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And when more land developers die of lead poisoning they might Reconsider their decisions. Problem is, few people want to risk themselves to save someone else because the government has shown that if they can ID you they'll come after each citizen that individually who stands against them. I think we're reaching the point where anyone who groups up to stand against the government needs to wear masks. Which is a mark of a third world nation. That isn't your SOP anyway? I try to stay as anonymous as possible. Not to mention that if Bundy paid his grazing allotment (which is about 1/20th of what an AUM costs on private/state lands), he would have been golden and would not have had to go the way he did. He did what he did for a fucking stupid reason. All the people who came out and defended him are equally as stupid. But he's not going by reason. A Fed AUM is less than $2. A private AUM runs an AVERAGE of ~$20. He was getting a fucking deal if he was comparing what the feds charge vs. what private/states charge. But I guess state land is different than Fed land. Oh wait, it's still owned by .gov. Which is ironic, because if he was grazing on private land like he wants to be, he'd have paid 20x what he was supposed to pay (on average, over the entire west, not just where he was). But let's not get mired in the facts. Let's just be outraged because we hate the feds, because Obama. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 5:46:26 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not to mention that if Bundy paid his grazing allotment (which is about 1/20th of what an AUM costs on private/state lands), he would have been golden and would not have had to go the way he did. He did what he did for a fucking stupid reason. All the people who came out and defended him are equally as stupid. But he's not going by reason. A Fed AUM is less than $2. A private AUM runs an AVERAGE of ~$20. He was getting a fucking deal if he was comparing what the feds charge vs. what private/states charge. But I guess state land is different than Fed land. Oh wait, it's still owned by .gov. Which is ironic, because if he was grazing on private land like he wants to be, he'd have paid 20x what he was supposed to pay (on average, over the entire west, not just where he was). But let's not get mired in the facts. Let's just be outraged because we hate the feds, because Obama. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: And when more land developers die of lead poisoning they might Reconsider their decisions. Problem is, few people want to risk themselves to save someone else because the government has shown that if they can ID you they'll come after each citizen that individually who stands against them. I think we're reaching the point where anyone who groups up to stand against the government needs to wear masks. Which is a mark of a third world nation. That isn't your SOP anyway? I try to stay as anonymous as possible. Not to mention that if Bundy paid his grazing allotment (which is about 1/20th of what an AUM costs on private/state lands), he would have been golden and would not have had to go the way he did. He did what he did for a fucking stupid reason. All the people who came out and defended him are equally as stupid. But he's not going by reason. A Fed AUM is less than $2. A private AUM runs an AVERAGE of ~$20. He was getting a fucking deal if he was comparing what the feds charge vs. what private/states charge. But I guess state land is different than Fed land. Oh wait, it's still owned by .gov. Which is ironic, because if he was grazing on private land like he wants to be, he'd have paid 20x what he was supposed to pay (on average, over the entire west, not just where he was). But let's not get mired in the facts. Let's just be outraged because we hate the feds, because Obama. I'm not really arguing the right/wrong, or smart/stupid of Bundy and his followers because I'm not educated enough on the issue. I'll defer to your superior knowledge in that regard. What I'm saying is that those people with rifles caused the government machine to grind to a halt and retreat, at least temporarily, without shots being fired. The rifles didn't even need to be loaded, yet without them the .gov machine would have steamrolled right over those people. Probably rounded them up, cracked some skulls, arrested a few, sent some home and put the rest into a "first amendment zone" to pick up cans. My feeling is that the government is scared to death of another Waco, this time broadcast live on Youtube from 50 different smart phones. So they'll back off, let everyone disperse then send the machine after individuals. Hence my comment on wearing masks. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 2:01:41 AM EDT
[#24]
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Are corporations people? Yes and they should be held to the same high standads as people and be personally accountable. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 2:05:42 AM EDT
[#25]
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Not all republicans love freedom. Just look at some of those in congress and other parts of lower gov. Freedom is hard. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Who wants to take a bet that the owners of the these companies and the politicians who support them are 100% republican? Not all republicans love freedom. Just look at some of those in congress and other parts of lower gov. Freedom is hard. Most of them... |
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