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Posted: 7/29/2015 6:26:12 PM EDT
[#1]
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I'm annoyed by the phrase "gun crime". If you're killed with a knife or bat, it's not real crime? If you're robbed by a perp with a knife, you're not as robbed as someone that was robbed with a gun? Crime is crime. Guns make you extra dead Ban them for the children@ |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 6:27:15 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll never understand the quasi gun control defense some UK posters put on here. Very odd. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 6:34:00 PM EDT
[#3]
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If you like your gun control, then you can keep your gun control. Me? I'll keep my guns. 
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2009? C'mon, you can do better'n that So you're proud of British gun control? Irrelevant response to made up US NRA stastistics is.....irrelevant A daily read of GD's US "gun crime" usurps anything happening here Carry on If you like your gun control, then you can keep your gun control. Me? I'll keep my guns.
I just ordered another 2 full cases of 230 grain Fiocchi .45 ACP this morning because I felt like it. PSA $139.90/ 500 plus $22.50 shipping. Murica.....FUCH YEAH.
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Posted: 7/29/2015 6:34:48 PM EDT
[#4]
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I'm annoyed by the phrase "gun crime". If you're killed with a knife or bat, it's not real crime? If you're robbed by a perp with a knife, you're not as robbed as someone that was robbed with a gun? Crime is crime. Mitt Romney said it best, that NO Nation on Earth has outlawed Ammonium Nitrate, yet that was what used to murder the people at the Oklahoma City building. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 6:35:22 PM EDT
[#5]
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I don't support the handgun and semi-auto rifle bans we have in place, and a few other technical/administrative stupidities. In principle I have no issues with a system that keeps (mostly), guns out of the hands of clearly crazy people and/or those too irresponsible to be trusted with them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll never understand the quasi gun control defense some UK posters put on here. Very odd. But that's not the system you have. 
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Posted: 7/29/2015 6:40:41 PM EDT
[#6]
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I don't support the handgun and semi-auto rifle bans we have in place, and a few other technical/administrative stupidities. In principle I have no issues with a system that keeps (mostly), guns out of the hands of clearly crazy people and/or those too irresponsible to be trusted with them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll never understand the quasi gun control defense some UK posters put on here. Very odd. Don't worry old chap, government knows what's best for you. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 6:41:19 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just ordered another 2 full cases of 230 grain Fiocchi .45 ACP this morning because I felt like it. PSA $139.90/ 500 plus $22.50 shipping. Murica.....FUCH YEAH. Yes, I do envy your prices..... |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 6:41:38 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 7/29/2015 6:44:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But that's not the system you have. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'll never understand the quasi gun control defense some UK posters put on here. Very odd. But that's not the system you have. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 6:48:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't worry old chap, government knows what's best for you. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'll never understand the quasi gun control defense some UK posters put on here. Very odd. Don't worry old chap, government knows what's best for you. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 6:55:26 PM EDT
[#11]
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Don't be silly, but I'm not so scared of my government such that I think I might need to take up arms against it...do you even do democracy.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll never understand the quasi gun control defense some UK posters put on here. Very odd. Don't worry old chap, government knows what's best for you. We did, in 1776 
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Posted: 7/29/2015 6:59:57 PM EDT
[#12]
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Yes, I do envy your prices..... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I just ordered another 2 full cases of 230 grain Fiocchi .45 ACP this morning because I felt like it. PSA $139.90/ 500 plus $22.50 shipping. Murica.....FUCH YEAH. Yes, I do envy your prices..... How about the fact that I can go online, click a mouse, and purchase as much ammunition as I feel like and have it delivered to my home without explaining a damned thing to the government? FREEDOM.....that's what's important; not the price of the ammunition itself. 
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Posted: 7/29/2015 7:02:52 PM EDT
[#13]
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Don't be silly, but I'm not so scared of my government such that I think I might need to take up arms against it...do you even do democracy.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll never understand the quasi gun control defense some UK posters put on here. Very odd. Don't worry old chap, government knows what's best for you. It's doing a great job of placing the boot firmly on your neck regarding gun rights though. Perhaps you should reconsider......and be certain that your television licenses are up to date. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 7:04:39 PM EDT
[#14]
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We did, in 1776 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll never understand the quasi gun control defense some UK posters put on here. Very odd. Don't worry old chap, government knows what's best for you. We did, in 1776 Did you, though? You still pay taxes, you are still subject to government imposed restrictions, you can still have your liberty denied, and you are subjected to some of the most insidious nationalist propaganda since the rise of communism where you are convinced that most if the world hates you and you are under constant threat so that the Govt can impose further controls by keeping the flock fearful. You are no more free than any other democracy. You simply swapped one government for another. 
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Posted: 7/29/2015 7:05:39 PM EDT
[#15]
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You have to make the underline black with this one weird trick. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Op couldn't even make the link red or underlined.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Grow up and get over it. Link to post for those who missed it You forgot to make it bold You have to make the underline black with this one weird trick. This crazy notlinking trick will make you ARFamous!!! |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 7:09:20 PM EDT
[#16]
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It could do better if it were actually applied. It hasn't been in the past, as our three most notorious shootings were all licensed holders, albeit at least two of them could likely have been prevented .. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll never understand the quasi gun control defense some UK posters put on here. Very odd. But that's not the system you have. Your bizarre response is reminiscent of an old saying......"if the queen had balls she'd be the king." What you described is actually a form of tyranny and it's a bad system. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 7:14:14 PM EDT
[#17]
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This crazy notlinking trick will make you ARFamous!!! It's the new RickRoll. 
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Posted: 7/29/2015 7:44:41 PM EDT
[#18]
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Get both... The data is in our favor from what I've seen. Most of it has been posted here already. My idea is just to have a central source so that the pro-gun arguments can "go forth and multiply." And, for quick access for when it's needed by the membership. Thing is, hearts and minds are not changed nor are arguments won or lost with facts, but with words. This document represents the level at which you will be able to do what you want to do; reciting facts will get you nowhere. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 8:06:16 PM EDT
[#19]
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I'm annoyed by the phrase "gun crime". If you're killed with a knife or bat, it's not real crime? If you're robbed by a perp with a knife, you're not as robbed as someone that was robbed with a gun? Crime is crime. Equally annoying is the liberal concept that eliminating guns makes everyone safe. When I bought my first SD handgun it was not to defend myself against someone with a gun. I am armed with the best tools available. Whatever he (or they) is armed with is irrelevant to the degree to which he is fucked. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 8:06:22 PM EDT
[#20]
just like the fail in Chicago
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Posted: 7/29/2015 8:07:08 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't support the handgun and semi-auto rifle bans we have in place, and a few other technical/administrative stupidities. In principle I have no issues with a system that keeps (mostly), guns out of the hands of clearly crazy people and/or those too irresponsible to be trusted with them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll never understand the quasi gun control defense some UK posters put on here. Very odd. The problem comes down to one simple thing: who decides what "clearly crazy people and/or those too irresponsible" actually means. If it's you or me, I'm ok with that. But it won't be. It'll be the Brady Center for gun Violence or some other assclown. Even if it starts as you or me, they're the sort of people who will try and try to gain control over other people. Eventually, they get it because as the saying goes, for the triumph of evil all that is necessary is that good men do nothing. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 8:13:23 PM EDT
[#22]
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sounds like a common trend... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Lots of crime went up over there due to immigration. sounds like a common trend... Engineered. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 8:29:49 PM EDT
[#23]
France was bankrupting due to socialized medicine.....so we move to socialized medicine.
England bans guns and gun violence increases.....so we want to ban guns. Stupid is as stupid does. |
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Posted: 7/29/2015 8:43:30 PM EDT
[#24]
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Are you kidding? It's working great. Violence is getting more and more common, people are getting more and more scared, and happy to give away more and more freedom to police and government. Just like the play was drawn up.  More cameras! Please, sir, can we have some more... cameras? |
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Posted: 7/30/2015 2:06:27 AM EDT
[#25]
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France was bankrupting due to socialized medicine.....so we move to socialized medicine. England bans guns and gun violence increases.....so we want to ban guns. Stupid is as stupid does. Wrong on both counts. But it's a good example of you guys believing every crackpot story you believe. |
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Posted: 7/30/2015 2:14:43 AM EDT
[#26]
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Wrong on both counts. But it's a good example of you guys believing every crackpot story you believe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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France was bankrupting due to socialized medicine.....so we move to socialized medicine. England bans guns and gun violence increases.....so we want to ban guns. Stupid is as stupid does. Wrong on both counts. But it's a good example of you guys believing every crackpot story you believe. Wait until you tell him that there are less restrictions on shotguns in England than there are in the US. His mind will be blown.
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Posted: 7/30/2015 2:19:39 AM EDT
[#27]
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I'll never understand why some of you guys will swallow any bullshit story as long as it fits an agenda you support. It pays to question and test the data presented to you, even by people who claim to be on your side, because you can be sure that your adversaries will question it and damage your credibility when they highlight the flaws you choose to ignore or may be unaware of. Taking such data at face value without an accurate or at least representative comparison could not only undermine your position but actually set out an argument in favour of your opposition. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll never understand the quasi gun control defense some UK posters put on here. Very odd. I'll never understand why some of you guys will swallow any bullshit story as long as it fits an agenda you support. It pays to question and test the data presented to you, even by people who claim to be on your side, because you can be sure that your adversaries will question it and damage your credibility when they highlight the flaws you choose to ignore or may be unaware of. Taking such data at face value without an accurate or at least representative comparison could not only undermine your position but actually set out an argument in favour of your opposition. lol have you payed any attention to how the U.S. news media works? Tell a lie enough times and it becomes the truth. Look at the "Hands Up Don't Shoot" movement. They were still chanting that lie all over the national news today at a protest in Cincinnati. Liberals use this tactic all the time. The fact is the majority of the public doesn't care what the facts are as long as the information presented is interesting or controversial (and they can repost it all over Facebook). |
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Posted: 7/30/2015 3:23:18 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The problem comes down to one simple thing: who decides what "clearly crazy people and/or those too irresponsible" actually means. If it's you or me, I'm ok with that. But it won't be. It'll be the Brady Center for gun Violence or some other assclown. Even if it starts as you or me, they're the sort of people who will try and try to gain control over other people. Eventually, they get it because as the saying goes, for the triumph of evil all that is necessary is that good men do nothing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'll never understand the quasi gun control defense some UK posters put on here. Very odd. The problem comes down to one simple thing: who decides what "clearly crazy people and/or those too irresponsible" actually means. If it's you or me, I'm ok with that. But it won't be. It'll be the Brady Center for gun Violence or some other assclown. Even if it starts as you or me, they're the sort of people who will try and try to gain control over other people. Eventually, they get it because as the saying goes, for the triumph of evil all that is necessary is that good men do nothing. |
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Posted: 7/30/2015 3:26:02 AM EDT
[#29]
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lol have you payed any attention to how the U.S. news media works? Tell a lie enough times and it becomes the truth. Look at the "Hands Up Don't Shoot" movement. They were still chanting that lie all over the national news today at a protest in Cincinnati. Liberals use this tactic all the time. The fact is the majority of the public doesn't care what the facts are as long as the information presented is interesting or controversial (and they can repost it all over Facebook). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll never understand the quasi gun control defense some UK posters put on here. Very odd. I'll never understand why some of you guys will swallow any bullshit story as long as it fits an agenda you support. It pays to question and test the data presented to you, even by people who claim to be on your side, because you can be sure that your adversaries will question it and damage your credibility when they highlight the flaws you choose to ignore or may be unaware of. Taking such data at face value without an accurate or at least representative comparison could not only undermine your position but actually set out an argument in favour of your opposition. lol have you payed any attention to how the U.S. news media works? Tell a lie enough times and it becomes the truth. Look at the "Hands Up Don't Shoot" movement. They were still chanting that lie all over the national news today at a protest in Cincinnati. Liberals use this tactic all the time. The fact is the majority of the public doesn't care what the facts are as long as the information presented is interesting or controversial (and they can repost it all over Facebook). Yeah. That's the impression I'm getting. It is a form of lazy intellectual dishonesty and reactionary asshattery upon which the burgeoning nanny state will thrive |
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Posted: 7/30/2015 3:28:09 AM EDT
[#30]
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Wait until you tell him that there are less restrictions on shotguns in England than there are in the US. His mind will be blown. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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France was bankrupting due to socialized medicine.....so we move to socialized medicine. England bans guns and gun violence increases.....so we want to ban guns. Stupid is as stupid does. Wrong on both counts. But it's a good example of you guys believing every crackpot story you believe. Wait until you tell him that there are less restrictions on shotguns in England than there are in the US. His mind will be blown. I'm not even sure that is true. I'm not that familiar with US gun laws. It would be rather amusing if that were the case though. 
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Posted: 7/30/2015 3:44:49 AM EDT
[#31]
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Absolutely correct, and our countries have taken opposite approaches. The UK says you can't have a gun unless you can show a lawful recognised(even though you may not agree with what constitutes that) use for it and agree to act responsibly with it. The US says everyone can have guns until they prove they shouldn't by slaughtering a bunch of people or doing something incredibly stupid with it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll never understand the quasi gun control defense some UK posters put on here. Very odd. The problem comes down to one simple thing: who decides what "clearly crazy people and/or those too irresponsible" actually means. If it's you or me, I'm ok with that. But it won't be. It'll be the Brady Center for gun Violence or some other assclown. Even if it starts as you or me, they're the sort of people who will try and try to gain control over other people. Eventually, they get it because as the saying goes, for the triumph of evil all that is necessary is that good men do nothing. That statement proves you are as ignorant as the people you are trying to mock. |
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Posted: 7/30/2015 3:58:43 AM EDT
[#32]
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I'll never understand the quasi gun control defense some UK posters put on here. Very odd. I take from it that they aren't so much defending gun control as pointing out that the information posted is incorrect and doesn't help make our case, because it's incorrect. It actually works against us in some ways because not questioning it makes us look stupid. |
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Posted: 7/30/2015 4:01:50 AM EDT
[#33]
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I take from it that they aren't so much defending gun control as pointing out that the information posted is incorrect and doesn't help make our case, because it's incorrect. It actually works against us in some ways because not questioning it makes us look stupid. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll never understand the quasi gun control defense some UK posters put on here. Very odd. I take from it that they aren't so much defending gun control as pointing out that the information posted is incorrect and doesn't help make our case, because it's incorrect. It actually works against us in some ways because not questioning it makes us look stupid. Precisely.
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Posted: 7/30/2015 4:07:34 AM EDT
[#34]
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Precisely. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll never understand the quasi gun control defense some UK posters put on here. Very odd. I take from it that they aren't so much defending gun control as pointing out that the information posted is incorrect and doesn't help make our case, because it's incorrect. It actually works against us in some ways because not questioning it makes us look stupid. Precisely. 
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Posted: 7/30/2015 4:07:42 AM EDT
[#35]
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Absolutely correct, and our countries have taken opposite approaches. The UK says you can't have a gun unless you can show a lawful recognised(even though you may not agree with what constitutes that) use for it and agree to act responsibly with it. The US says everyone can have guns until they prove they shouldn't by slaughtering a bunch of people or doing something incredibly stupid with it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll never understand the quasi gun control defense some UK posters put on here. Very odd. The problem comes down to one simple thing: who decides what "clearly crazy people and/or those too irresponsible" actually means. If it's you or me, I'm ok with that. But it won't be. It'll be the Brady Center for gun Violence or some other assclown. Even if it starts as you or me, they're the sort of people who will try and try to gain control over other people. Eventually, they get it because as the saying goes, for the triumph of evil all that is necessary is that good men do nothing. Lol, okay mate. Enjoy that pump action AR-15. I bet with some practice, you can get real quick, mate. |
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Posted: 7/30/2015 6:37:14 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We did, in 1776 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'll never understand the quasi gun control defense some UK posters put on here. Very odd. Don't worry old chap, government knows what's best for you. We did, in 1776 40-45% is not a majority... |
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Posted: 7/30/2015 6:43:33 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about the fact that I can go online, click a mouse, and purchase as much ammunition as I feel like and have it delivered to my home without explaining a damned thing to the government? FREEDOM.....that's what's important; not the price of the ammunition itself. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I just ordered another 2 full cases of 230 grain Fiocchi .45 ACP this morning because I felt like it. PSA $139.90/ 500 plus $22.50 shipping. Murica.....FUCH YEAH. Yes, I do envy your prices..... How about the fact that I can go online, click a mouse, and purchase as much ammunition as I feel like and have it delivered to my home without explaining a damned thing to the government? FREEDOM.....that's what's important; not the price of the ammunition itself. |
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Posted: 7/30/2015 6:45:55 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's doing a great job of placing the boot firmly on your neck regarding gun rights though. Perhaps you should reconsider......and be certain that your television licenses are up to date. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'll never understand the quasi gun control defense some UK posters put on here. Very odd. Don't worry old chap, government knows what's best for you. It's doing a great job of placing the boot firmly on your neck regarding gun rights though. Perhaps you should reconsider......and be certain that your television licenses are up to date. |
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Posted: 7/30/2015 6:50:43 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That statement proves you are as ignorant as the people you are trying to mock. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Absolutely correct, and our countries have taken opposite approaches. The UK says you can't have a gun unless you can show a lawful recognised(even though you may not agree with what constitutes that) use for it and agree to act responsibly with it. The US says everyone can have guns until they prove they shouldn't by slaughtering a bunch of people or doing something incredibly stupid with it. That statement proves you are as ignorant as the people you are trying to mock. |
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Posted: 7/30/2015 6:36:31 PM EDT
[#40]
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Lol, okay mate. Enjoy that pump action AR-15. I bet with some practice, you can get real quick, mate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll never understand the quasi gun control defense some UK posters put on here. Very odd. The problem comes down to one simple thing: who decides what "clearly crazy people and/or those too irresponsible" actually means. If it's you or me, I'm ok with that. But it won't be. It'll be the Brady Center for gun Violence or some other assclown. Even if it starts as you or me, they're the sort of people who will try and try to gain control over other people. Eventually, they get it because as the saying goes, for the triumph of evil all that is necessary is that good men do nothing. Lol, okay mate. Enjoy that pump action AR-15. I bet with some practice, you can get real quick, mate. Quick and accurate. 10 rounds down range in under 30 seconds at 600yds with a 10 wash score not uncommon. And that is with a straight pull AR15. There's no point having a gun that can shoot fast if you couldn't hit a fucking barn if you were stood inside it. |
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Posted: 7/30/2015 9:25:55 PM EDT
[#41]
Another example of the UK media creating a storm over nothing, and then Politicians having to decry it, or face the wrath of the UK media for 'doing nothing'
Short story, UK policeman is in trouble for posted a photo of a couple of kids holding guns (clearly empty) on his facebook. WTF: the Photo was taken in 2008, in New Zealand. 
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-firearms-officer-carpeted-bosses-6167705 |
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Posted: 7/31/2015 3:22:29 AM EDT
[#42]
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Another example of the UK media creating a storm over nothing, and then Politicians having to decry it, or face the wrath of the UK media for 'doing nothing' Short story, UK policeman is in trouble for posted a photo of a couple of kids holding guns (clearly empty) on his facebook. WTF: the Photo was taken in 2008, in New Zealand. http://i4.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article6161494.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/utils.jpg http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-firearms-officer-carpeted-bosses-6167705 Police firearms officer giving his kids the opportunity to experience some supervised shooting with instruction in perfectly legal circumstances? Yeah, the lefty media who have no experience are gonna hate that. Add the agravating factor that it is Scotland which is about as anti-gun as it gets and you have a recipe for considerable herpity-derp. I believe they call this a "witch hunt". The legitimised bullying and reputational destruction of a law abiding person for no reason other than ignorant exploitation. |
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Posted: 7/31/2015 3:44:46 AM EDT
[#43]
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Absolutely correct, and our countries have taken opposite approaches. The UK says you can't have a gun unless you can show a lawful recognised(even though you may not agree with what constitutes that) use for it and agree to act responsibly with it. The US says everyone can have guns until they prove they shouldn't by slaughtering a bunch of people or doing something incredibly stupid with it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Absolutely correct, and our countries have taken opposite approaches. The UK says you can't have a gun unless you can show a lawful recognised(even though you may not agree with what constitutes that) use for it and agree to act responsibly with it. The US says everyone can have guns until they prove they shouldn't by slaughtering a bunch of people or doing something incredibly stupid with it. Do you believe there is a way for a Government (the UK or the USA) to know beyond a reasonable doubt that the person with the firearm with never, ever do anything stupid or illegal with said firearm (such as slaughtering a bunch of people)? Do you believe there is a way for a Government (the UK or the USA) to know beyond a reasonable doubt that the person with the firearm is not likely to do anything stupid or illegal with said firearm (such as slaughtering a bunch of people)? Quoted:
I shall. Don't forget to pay your tax stamp on your SBR's and suppressors (WTF is that all about?) It's $200 and it applies to machine guns as well. Explosives require a few more hoops to jump through but all in all are not impoosible to acquire legally. In other words all you need is cash, a clean background, and the right paper work and you can have machine guns, explosives, tanks, helicopters, hand grenades (depending on the state) Of course that's on the Federal level. There are some states within the USA where I cannot own these things however there are many more where I can. How difficult is it where you live to acquire a legal machine gun? How about a hand grenade? A tank? What are the places within the UK where you are allowed to own such things? Quoted:...oh, and be careful you don't accidentally take a magazine with more than 10 rounds, somewhere you shouldn't... That is an excellent point. There are some places I cannot take an otherwise lawfully possessed 10 round magazine in the USA although there aren't many, thankfully. Are there any places you can take your lawfully owned machine gun in the UK? What happens if you accidentally have a gas tube near your bolt action AR 15? |
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Posted: 7/31/2015 4:13:18 AM EDT
[#44]
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I do not understand the message your are attempting to convey via the part I have highlighted in bold taken in context with the entire statement comparing and contrasting the UK and the USA so perhaps you can help me: what, exactly, are you trying to say? Are you implying there is a way for a Government (the UK or the USA) to know beyond a reasonable doubt that the person with the firearm with never, ever do anything stupid or illegal with said firearm (such as slaughtering a bunch of people)? Or are you implying there is a way for a Government (the UK or the USA) to know beyond a reasonable doubt that the person with the firearm is not likely to do anything stupid or illegal with said firearm (such as slaughtering a bunch of people)? Or have I misread what you have written? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Absolutely correct, and our countries have taken opposite approaches. The UK says you can't have a gun unless you can show a lawful recognised(even though you may not agree with what constitutes that) use for it and agree to act responsibly with it. The US says everyone can have guns until they prove they shouldn't by slaughtering a bunch of people or doing something incredibly stupid with it. I do not understand the message your are attempting to convey via the part I have highlighted in bold taken in context with the entire statement comparing and contrasting the UK and the USA so perhaps you can help me: what, exactly, are you trying to say? Are you implying there is a way for a Government (the UK or the USA) to know beyond a reasonable doubt that the person with the firearm with never, ever do anything stupid or illegal with said firearm (such as slaughtering a bunch of people)? Or are you implying there is a way for a Government (the UK or the USA) to know beyond a reasonable doubt that the person with the firearm is not likely to do anything stupid or illegal with said firearm (such as slaughtering a bunch of people)? Or have I misread what you have written? Doesn't seem to be implying anything. Seems to be a fair observation of the current position to me. One government is taking preventative measures to minimise (where possible) the risk of someone doing something bad with a gun. The other Government is adopting an approach of minimal intervention until there is a problem. Neither system is 100% effective in stopping gun crime and protecting the rights of law abiding gun owners. Nor can they be. It is down to you to consider the differences, what interventions are appropriate and most effective, and how best to enable and facilitate the rights of law abiding people while reducing the risk of criminal use. It goes to the very heart of the gun control debate. |
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Posted: 7/31/2015 4:47:37 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Doesn't seem to be implying anything. Seems to be a fair observation of the current position to me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Doesn't seem to be implying anything. Seems to be a fair observation of the current position to me. This part of the quote, for some reason, in my opinion, is not phrased in an accurate way: "until they prove they shouldn't by slaughtering a bunch of people or doing something incredibly stupid with it. " On the one hand IcarusY625 seems to argue a person must do something “incredibly stupid” or commit mass murder using a firearm before being disbarred from ownership and then on the other hand IcarusY625 makes reference to the NFA (26 USC) and various state law restrictions (magazine capacities; i.e. 10 round limits) that should serve as evidence that various governments within the USA do indeed attempt to take preventative measures (i.e. background checks; 18 USC 922 (d)(3) ) when it comes to firearm ownership. In other words, IcarusY625 is trying to have the cake and eat it too. That does not strike me as a fair observation at all. Quoted:One government is taking preventative measures to minimise (where possible) the risk of someone doing something bad with a gun. The other Government is adopting an approach of minimal intervention until there is a problem. I understand the argument but the premise is wrong. There are an abundance of laws on the books and IcarusY625 appears to understand this when both 26 USC (NFA) and magazine restrictions that may be found in some states were referenced in other posts. Quoted:Neither system is 100% effective in stopping gun crime. Nor can they be. May I ask a seemingly unrelated question: do you believe capital punishment works as a deterrent against future crimes such as murder? Quoted:It is down to you to consider the differences, what interventions are appropriate and most effective, and how best to enable and facilitate the rights of law abiding people while reducing the risk of criminal use.
It goes to the very heart of the gun control debate. The phrase "while reducing the risk of criminal use. " is something that gives me pause. I have seen how various governments define "criminal use" and when a government can make a man into a criminal for inserting the wrong magazine into the wrong weapon (New Zealand) or having a pistol with too short a barrel (Canada) or having a gas tube installed on a rifle (UK), or have too many foreign parts on an imported weapon (USA), I tend to be leery of trusting the reasons given by various governments for their actions. |
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Posted: 7/31/2015 6:57:08 AM EDT
[#46]
Meh UK and European law systems that tell my 80 YO mother she basically is dependant of her physical strength to duke it out with an attacker are evil.
The biggest on record lobbyists against self defence here in the Netherlands ARE the police. Off record it's a differnt story especially with older officers. Arfcom lies anyway because UK police apparently are fine with guns because they dont even bother to mention them. 
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Posted: 7/31/2015 7:14:50 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not trying to mock anyone. Neither of our countries has solved the problem of misuse of firearms and likely never will, because it involves people.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Absolutely correct, and our countries have taken opposite approaches. The UK says you can't have a gun unless you can show a lawful recognised(even though you may not agree with what constitutes that) use for it and agree to act responsibly with it. The US says everyone can have guns until they prove they shouldn't by slaughtering a bunch of people or doing something incredibly stupid with it. That statement proves you are as ignorant as the people you are trying to mock. If you like your fucked up draconian gun laws you can keep your fucked up draconian gunlaws. And you do like your fucked up draconian gun laws. A serf looking down at free men,,,,,,fucking laughable. |
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Posted: 7/31/2015 7:20:11 AM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 7/31/2015 7:20:32 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm annoyed by the phrase "gun crime". If you're killed with a knife or bat, it's not real crime? If you're robbed by a perp with a knife, you're not as robbed as someone that was robbed with a gun? Crime is crime. It makes sense. Like "Golf Crime" when someone is attacked or killed with a golf club. If I am not mistaken, Tiger Woods was a victim of a domestic "Golf Crime". Its much more descriptive. |
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Posted: 7/31/2015 7:21:59 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not trying to mock anyone. Neither of our countries has solved the problem of misuse of firearms and likely never will, because it involves people.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Absolutely correct, and our countries have taken opposite approaches. The UK says you can't have a gun unless you can show a lawful recognised(even though you may not agree with what constitutes that) use for it and agree to act responsibly with it. The US says everyone can have guns until they prove they shouldn't by slaughtering a bunch of people or doing something incredibly stupid with it. That statement proves you are as ignorant as the people you are trying to mock. In England could a justifiable reason be "to guard against tyranny and lawlessness" when answering why you want the gun? |
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