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Link Posted: 7/27/2015 1:33:33 PM EDT
[#1]

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No. Direct democracy is bad for liberty.
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We have zero use for the electoral college.  We need to move to direct voting where each vote counts not just the majority in each state.
No. Direct democracy is bad for liberty.
we've almost reached a tipping point, where it doesn't matter anymore.  There are major urban areas in nearly every state, so that most states now vote for the liberal agenda.  

 
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 1:35:49 PM EDT
[#2]
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Don't forget Gadsden County.  
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So the rest of FL will sorta get the "feels" of a Panhandle resident now?


Yeah, I'm confused. From like Pcola to almost Tallahassee is hella hard Republican.



Get rid of Tallahassee and the panhandle would be solid red.
Don't forget Gadsden County.  



Didn't realize Gadsden was that infested with libtards.  But get rid of Leon County and the rest of the district can easily overcome Gadsden County.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 1:36:20 PM EDT
[#3]
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Negative. County by county, as voter registrations are handled now.
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That's why we need to dump the electoral college and go straight up popular vote. You have all the trash in NYC dictating what way the rest of the state will go. It's bullshit. Let every vote count.


Negative. County by county, as voter registrations are handled now.


This, but it is up to the state and some states split their delegates.  The popular vote, or a true democracy, is two wolves and a sheep voting on "whats for lunch?"
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 1:50:49 PM EDT
[#4]
Didn't realize Gadsden was that infested with libtards. But get rid of Leon County and the rest of the district can easily overcome Gadsden County
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Gadsden county is over 50 percent African American in population.  African American's usually vote democrat.   Leon, Jefferson, Hamilton and Madison counties to the east of it are all over 30 percent African American in population.  Those counties are the highest for African American population in the state.  When you add that base that will heavily vote democrat to the caucasian base that will vote democrat, it's a majority that will never vote republican or other party.  

The panhandle is conservative and republican leaning.  I can remember when the democratic party was much more prevelent in the area, that changed a lot when Clinton's last term was almost up and after Bush came into office.  A lot of conservative democratic incumbents and voters decided the republican party was a much better fit with their ideas of being conservatives and switched.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 1:56:14 PM EDT
[#5]
Hawaii I kind of get, but I've never understood how the relationship between mainland USA and Puerto Rico started.




 
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 1:58:34 PM EDT
[#6]
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That's why we need to dump the electoral college and go straight up popular vote. You have all the trash in NYC dictating what way the rest of the state will go. It's bullshit. Let every vote count.
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NO!
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:02:57 PM EDT
[#7]
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What amazes me is hispanic culture is really very conservative and due to perception they seem to vote against their own values.
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Black culture is fairly conservative as well and you see who they vote for at a 95% rate.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:04:02 PM EDT
[#8]
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Hawaii I kind of get, but I've never understood how the relationship between mainland USA and Puerto Rico started.
 
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Spanish-American war. Claimed it as war booty. Fell under our caretaking as a colony. All inhabitants granted citizenship, then it was declared a commonwealth. U.S. military liked it for it's location and Monroe Doctrine yadadaddada.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:06:21 PM EDT
[#9]
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Negative. County by county, as voter registrations are handled now.  
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That's why we need to dump the electoral college and go straight up popular vote. You have all the trash in NYC dictating what way the rest of the state will go. It's bullshit. Let every vote count.  


Negative. County by county, as voter registrations are handled now.  


THIS

Proportional allocation of Electoral College vote IS what is needed.

In early talk about Hillary running for the White House back in 1998, it was said that with no Electoral College she could have "a 5 city strategy", where she only had to campaign in 5 major cities that carried the 5 states they were in plus surrounding media market area, and she have enough votes to win.

The Electoral College system prevents such a "play to the big cities" strategy and moving to proportional allocation would make candidates have to campaign in every state and not just the big states that have lots of Electoral votes while leaving "fly over country" out of the picture.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:06:40 PM EDT
[#10]
This is proof that socialists are exactly equivalent to a parasite. When they kill their host, they move to another host and will eventually kill it too.

No one is naive enough to think that Puerto Ricans, or Mexicans, will have learned their lesson and vote differently when they come here...
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:08:28 PM EDT
[#11]
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What amazes me is hispanic culture is really very conservative and due to perception they seem to vote against their own values.
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Saying "Hispanic" is about as narrow as saying "European". It's a pretty broad brush.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:14:52 PM EDT
[#12]
I don't see this trend reversing until there is total financial collapse.  At that point, most Americans will be destitute refugees seeking salvation in other lands.  



Things are going to get a lot worse before they have any hope of getting better, I'm afraid.  By then I will most likely be dead.  I worry for my kids, though.  
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:15:40 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:16:37 PM EDT
[#14]
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we've almost reached a tipping point, where it doesn't matter anymore.  There are major urban areas in nearly every state, so that most states now vote for the liberal agenda.    
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We have zero use for the electoral college.  We need to move to direct voting where each vote counts not just the majority in each state.
No. Direct democracy is bad for liberty.
we've almost reached a tipping point, where it doesn't matter anymore.  There are major urban areas in nearly every state, so that most states now vote for the liberal agenda.    



Yeah it's a pretty good argument that we live under the illusion of liberty. That the defacto bureaucratic government is in fact a socialist form disguising itself as a representative republic. Simply going through the motions, while conceding the idea of three separate but equal branches of government is dead. Having ceded all authority to the executive and does not exist except as a formal pretense...

But still,I'd rather the pretense at this point than them actually dropping the pretenses...
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:17:48 PM EDT
[#15]
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I don't see this trend reversing until there is total financial collapse.  At that point, most Americans will be destitute refugees seeking salvation in other lands.  

Things are going to get a lot worse before they have any hope of getting better, I'm afraid.  By then I will most likely be dead.  I worry for my kids, though.  
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It's not going to be better anywhere else that has a large metropolitan population.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:19:51 PM EDT
[#16]
The panhandle is less populated because it's mostly Federal Property.  Military bases and ranges....thank God.
And some St. Forests.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:26:09 PM EDT
[#17]
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The panhandle is less populated because it's mostly Federal Property.  Military bases and ranges....thank God.
And some St. Forests.
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Don't Forget the St. Joe Company's current and previous land holdings in the area.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:44:03 PM EDT
[#18]
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Sounds like the settlers from Commiefornia repopulating Colorado, Wyoming, and Texas . . . screw up your location bad enough to move, then re-start the process somewhere where it isn't screwed up
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And they all came, originally, from places like the Midwest and New England.  Those Californians typically are either imports or the children thereof.  They came here, screwed up our State, and now they're fleeing the mess they've made.  Of course, some of our imports are that changed things came from outside of the U.S., but they don't seem to leave their mess behind as much as the ones that came from other States.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:47:44 PM EDT
[#19]
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And less populated areas of the State....  
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So the rest of FL will sorta get the "feels" of a Panhandle resident now?

No idea what you are trying to say... the fl panhandle is one of the most lopsidedly Republican locations in the US.
And less populated areas of the State....  


Don't get me wrong, I love living here. It's just that at times, Southern FL has interests that are completely counter to what some of the folks in this area want. Vastly different population demographics.

My response was more a comment on the thread title and content of the article. I read that as a lamentation, that FL will have "deal" with the changing interests because of the changing demographics.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:50:18 PM EDT
[#20]

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You seem to be implying this is an "immigration" issue.....when it's clearly not.  



Puerto Ricans are US citizens...the same as you and I.  They (and us) can move freely between the states and island whenever they choose and can decide to move to any state they like....they are also fully eligible to vote if they move to the states.  You know, because they are citizens.



They are not going to become an independent state.  They have held several referendums and overwhelmingly voted to become a US state.  If anything changes, it will be in the direction of statehood.
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This is why I'll happily sit home on election day instead of voting for a RINO turd. The GOP has committed treason against main street America. Fuck them to the pits of hell. IF Trump or Cruz win the nomination, I might reconsider.




You seem to be implying this is an "immigration" issue.....when it's clearly not.  



Puerto Ricans are US citizens...the same as you and I.  They (and us) can move freely between the states and island whenever they choose and can decide to move to any state they like....they are also fully eligible to vote if they move to the states.  You know, because they are citizens.



They are not going to become an independent state.  They have held several referendums and overwhelmingly voted to become a US state.  If anything changes, it will be in the direction of statehood.




 
You're right on everything except the vote for statehood. The last referendum was clearly in favor of statehood.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:50:36 PM EDT
[#21]
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Pretty much....  

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a3/Florida_Senate_2012.svg/600px-Florida_Senate_2012.svg.png


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/California_presidential_election_results_2012.svg/335px-California_presidential_election_results_2012.svg.png


Both States are controlled by major liberal population centers even though the majority of both States geographically are Conservative. The issue with that is that the game is numbers and not land.


Florida will go through a interesting change in the next twenty years.
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Sounds like the settlers from Commiefornia repopulating Colorado, Wyoming, and Texas . . . screw up your location bad enough to move, then re-start the process somewhere where it isn't screwed up
Pretty much....  

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a3/Florida_Senate_2012.svg/600px-Florida_Senate_2012.svg.png


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/California_presidential_election_results_2012.svg/335px-California_presidential_election_results_2012.svg.png


Both States are controlled by major liberal population centers even though the majority of both States geographically are Conservative. The issue with that is that the game is numbers and not land.


Florida will go through a interesting change in the next twenty years.


Before the unconstitutional Reynolds vs. Sims ruling, many States had structures meant to ensure that geographical areas would not be overwhelmed by numbers from population centres.  In California, we still had 40 Senators, but they were assigned to counties (we have 58).  The largest-population counties would get one Senator and up to three adjacent counties with smaller populations could be joined together to form one district so that 40 Senators could be distributed among 58 counties.  No county could be divided.  Without taking into account the fact that things skewed more to the Left because this was done away with, if this form of the Senate were still around in California a Republican Senate majority would still be quite plausible, although it could only be narrow barring an exceptional circumstance.  The Democrats could never achieve a large majority or supermajority.  Most likely, the Senate would go back and forth between ties or slight majorities for either party.  Compare that to our population-based Senate, which has a huge Democratic majority, and in which supermajorities on their part are achievable from time to time (and with current trends that could eventually become a permanent thing).
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:51:36 PM EDT
[#22]

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Didn't realize Gadsden was that infested with libtards.  But get rid of Leon County and the rest of the district can easily overcome Gadsden County.

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So the rest of FL will sorta get the "feels" of a Panhandle resident now?




Yeah, I'm confused. From like Pcola to almost Tallahassee is hella hard Republican.






Get rid of Tallahassee and the panhandle would be solid red.
Don't forget Gadsden County.  






Didn't realize Gadsden was that infested with libtards.  But get rid of Leon County and the rest of the district can easily overcome Gadsden County.

Have you seen the demographics of Gadsden?

 
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:52:26 PM EDT
[#23]
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That's why we need to dump the electoral college and go straight up popular vote. You have all the trash in NYC dictating what way the rest of the state will go. It's bullshit. Let every vote count.
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Hell no.  The President should not be popularly elected in the first place (even though the perversion of the EC election is such that it is tantamount to the same).  It also tends to mitigate, to some degree, the influence of the major population-centres.  The popular vote would not actually help the cause.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:53:17 PM EDT
[#24]
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Yeah, I'm confused. From like Pcola to almost Tallahassee is hella hard Republican.
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So the rest of FL will sorta get the "feels" of a Panhandle resident now?


Yeah, I'm confused. From like Pcola to almost Tallahassee is hella hard Republican.



That goes for most of everything north of marion county.... Well except Gainesville.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:53:45 PM EDT
[#25]
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:53:47 PM EDT
[#26]

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Hawaii I kind of get, but I've never understood how the relationship between mainland USA and Puerto Rico started.

 
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Spanish American War and the need for bodies and World War 1.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:54:54 PM EDT
[#27]

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That's why we need to dump the electoral college and go straight up popular vote. You have all the trash in NYC dictating what way the rest of the state will go. It's bullshit. Let every vote count.
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No,  R controlled states like FL that risk going D nationally should grant electoral votes by congressional district and not winner takes all.

 



It helps to contain the big city liberal cancer to big cities.









Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:56:39 PM EDT
[#28]
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What amazes me is hispanic culture is really very conservative and due to perception they seem to vote against their own values.
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What amazes me is hispanic culture is really very conservative and due to perception they seem to vote against their own values.


What amazes me is that people still think that Hispanics are or should be culturally inclined towards conservatism.  Most are not, especially the types coming here.

from another thread:

People fail to realize just how inclined Hispanics from most Spanish-speaking countries are towards Leftism, the countries with major cultural admixtures with the aboriginal populations, in particular (which is, as said, most of them). That cultural admixture combined with the neglect the Church had for proper teaching of the Faith in many of these countries in the past (affecting today's culture) has resulted in a situation where the fact that they are Catholic is irrelevant. It doesn't play the role people think it should in their societal interactions or in their politics. It presents a façade of social conservatism, but it is skin deep in most cases and manifests itself even less in politics. Outside of that realm, they aren't really conservative at all (as a whole, anyways; there are always exceptional persons).

I recall a good saying from an Austro-Hungarian nobleman (and late founding contributor and columnist for National Review), Erik Ritter von Kuehnelt-Leddihn, from his article in The Freeman, "Latin America in Perspective," in which he states, "Christianity being only 400 years old in many parts of Latin America (where it is not Euro­pean Christianity transplanted, but superimposed!), it has af­fected only the blood and the hearts of the people, not the bones and the mind [he's speaking mainly about the Indians and mestizos here]...The Church has, in the past, concentrated too much on devotion (especially on Marian devotion) and not sufficiently on ethics, as Professor Fredrick B. Pike of Notre Dame pointed out in a brilliant paper. She did not preach energetically enough the natural virtues: respect for personal prop­erty, thrift, truthfulness, frugal­ity, responsibility for the family, chastity, cleanliness. (In certain Latin American nations 85 per cent of all children are illegitimate and get their entire moral educa­tion from benign grandmothers.) Piety is impressive in Latin Amer­ica, but the Mestizo who prays in mystical ecstasy, tears streaming down his face, may vote com­munist tomorrow or slit his neigh­bor’s throat from ear to ear." It's not an inaccurate way to characterize all but the most European parts of the populations in these countries (they have their Leftists, to be sure, but they resemble southern European Leftists more than the sort we are talking about here).

Republicans are foolish to think they've found a natural constituency in these people that just needs cultivation simply on account of their Roman Catholicism, because it represents orthodox Christianity and thus is inherently, as a Faith, conservative. The imprint is too shallow, and thus it does not influence how they vote a whole lot (but again, one can find exceptions, at least in the social realm, such as gay marriage, where Hispanics failed to support it as much as non-Hispanic white Leftists or the Left as a whole). Appeals to their assumed social conservatism will fall flat. Outside of that realm, they are most certainly not conservative and favour nationalism (for their own ethnicity), centralization, redistribution of wealth, government management of the economy and parts of society, the provider state, etc. Aiding them in things which will increase their political prominence, such as supporting amnesty, is suicidal for the Right. They will not only fail to appeal to their supposed social conservatism, but will also fail to receive anything but the most temporary and limited gratitude, and much of the credit will still be seized by the Left.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:56:57 PM EDT
[#29]

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This is proof that socialists are exactly equivalent to a parasite. When they kill their host, they move to another host and will eventually kill it too.



No one is naive enough to think that Puerto Ricans, or Mexicans, will have learned their lesson and vote differently when they come here...
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You're an idiot in comparing Puerto Ricans to Mexicans. That's like comparing French and German as being the same.

 
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 2:59:17 PM EDT
[#30]
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  You'd be hard pressed to find a more (relatively) obscure ruling that has had a more negative impact on this country than Reynolds.


With it, we've been clinging to a narrow "Republican" majority in the NYS Senate for most of the last couple decades.  Without it, and we'd have an actual Republican majority and this state would be far more tolerable.
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Sounds like the settlers from Commiefornia repopulating Colorado, Wyoming, and Texas . . . screw up your location bad enough to move, then re-start the process somewhere where it isn't screwed up
Pretty much....  

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a3/Florida_Senate_2012.svg/600px-Florida_Senate_2012.svg.png


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e7/California_presidential_election_results_2012.svg/335px-California_presidential_election_results_2012.svg.png


Both States are controlled by major liberal population centers even though the majority of both States geographically are Conservative. The issue with that is that the game is numbers and not land.


Florida will go through a interesting change in the next twenty years.


Before the unconstitutional Reynolds vs. Sims ruling, many States had structures meant to ensure that geographical areas would not be overwhelmed by numbers from population centres.  In California, we still had 40 Senators, but they were assigned to counties (we have 58).  The largest-population counties would get one Senator and up to three adjacent counties with smaller populations could be joined together to form one district so that 40 Senators could be distributed among 58 counties.  No county could be divided.  Without taking into account the fact that things skewed more to the Left because this was done away with, if this form of the Senate were still around in California a Republican Senate majority would still be quite plausible, although it could only be narrow barring an exceptional circumstance.  The Democrats could never achieve a large majority or supermajority.  Most likely, the Senate would go back and forth between ties or slight majorities for either party.  Compare that to our population-based Senate, which has a huge Democratic majority, and in which supermajorities on their part are achievable from time to time (and with current trends that could eventually become a permanent thing).

  You'd be hard pressed to find a more (relatively) obscure ruling that has had a more negative impact on this country than Reynolds.


With it, we've been clinging to a narrow "Republican" majority in the NYS Senate for most of the last couple decades.  Without it, and we'd have an actual Republican majority and this state would be far more tolerable.


Yeah, here a lot of stuff would never have been passed and I think it would have slowed the rate to which this State turned blue.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 3:01:07 PM EDT
[#31]
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You're an idiot in comparing Puerto Ricans to Mexicans. That's like comparing French and German as being the same.  
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This is proof that socialists are exactly equivalent to a parasite. When they kill their host, they move to another host and will eventually kill it too.

No one is naive enough to think that Puerto Ricans, or Mexicans, will have learned their lesson and vote differently when they come here...
You're an idiot in comparing Puerto Ricans to Mexicans. That's like comparing French and German as being the same.  


I would say that in terms of the basics, they are culturally closer to one another than most French are to most Germans.  In terms of the cultural traits that matter in a political context, they are quite comparable, even if somewhat different.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 3:06:04 PM EDT
[#32]
I think it might be time to move to Texas. Should I? I'm getting out of the Army and I'll be going where the work is. If someone could PM me and we could contact each other to talk about this I would appreciate it. I'm saddened to see my home state fall apart. I really want to go back to it but if this is the trend well..... I am an analyst after all and in my line of work trends and patterns are a big indicator towards future action.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 3:08:39 PM EDT
[#33]
The pattern you see there is coming to every single state and eventually the nation as a whole.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 3:10:08 PM EDT
[#34]
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The pattern you see there is coming to every single state and eventually the nation as a whole.
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Texas looks like from my research the state that will hold out the longest. That is why I would really like to talk to someone from TX after work.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 3:12:07 PM EDT
[#35]
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Didn't realize Gadsden was that infested with libtards.  But get rid of Leon County and the rest of the district can easily overcome Gadsden County.
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So the rest of FL will sorta get the "feels" of a Panhandle resident now?


Yeah, I'm confused. From like Pcola to almost Tallahassee is hella hard Republican.



Get rid of Tallahassee and the panhandle would be solid red.
Don't forget Gadsden County.  



Didn't realize Gadsden was that infested with libtards.  But get rid of Leon County and the rest of the district can easily overcome Gadsden County.


This. Tallacrappy is what powered Gwen Graham to take Steve Southerland's House seat, and kept Allen Boyd in that same seat for years before ObamaCare got him. North of I-4, the only districts that typically go blue are the immediate Gainesville, Tallahassee, and J-ville areas.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 3:14:44 PM EDT
[#36]
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Don't get me wrong, I love living here. It's just that at times, Southern FL has interests that are completely counter to what some of the folks in this area want. Vastly different population demographics.

My response was more a comment on the thread title and content of the article. I read that as a lamentation, that FL will have "deal" with the changing interests because of the changing demographics.
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So the rest of FL will sorta get the "feels" of a Panhandle resident now?

No idea what you are trying to say... the fl panhandle is one of the most lopsidedly Republican locations in the US.
And less populated areas of the State....  


Don't get me wrong, I love living here. It's just that at times, Southern FL has interests that are completely counter to what some of the folks in this area want. Vastly different population demographics.

My response was more a comment on the thread title and content of the article. I read that as a lamentation, that FL will have "deal" with the changing interests because of the changing demographics.


Been saying for years cut it off just south of Ocala.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 3:18:36 PM EDT
[#37]

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Don't get me wrong, I love living here. It's just that at times, Southern FL has interests that are completely counter to what some of the folks in this area want. Vastly different population demographics.



My response was more a comment on the thread title and content of the article. I read that as a lamentation, that FL will have "deal" with the changing interests because of the changing demographics.

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So the rest of FL will sorta get the "feels" of a Panhandle resident now?


No idea what you are trying to say... the fl panhandle is one of the most lopsidedly Republican locations in the US.
And less populated areas of the State....  




Don't get me wrong, I love living here. It's just that at times, Southern FL has interests that are completely counter to what some of the folks in this area want. Vastly different population demographics.



My response was more a comment on the thread title and content of the article. I read that as a lamentation, that FL will have "deal" with the changing interests because of the changing demographics.





 
Won't do anything since the majority of South Floridians with money are moving to North Florida and Georgia for retirement and bringing their voting patterns with them.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 3:18:40 PM EDT
[#38]
When need to have elections determined by the popular vote with runoffs until one candidate gets >50% of the total vote.  
The electoral college needs to just die already.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 3:20:07 PM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:
When need to have elections determined by the popular vote with runoffs until one candidate gets >50% of the total vote.  
The electoral college needs to just die already.
View Quote


The electoral college needs to be reformed to restore it to its proper function.  Eliminating it can only make things worse.  Why the heck would you think the popular vote is a good idea?
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 3:24:15 PM EDT
[#40]
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I would say that in terms of the basics, they are culturally closer to one another than most French are to most Germans.  In terms of the cultural traits that matter in a political context, they are quite comparable, even if somewhat different.
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This is proof that socialists are exactly equivalent to a parasite. When they kill their host, they move to another host and will eventually kill it too.

No one is naive enough to think that Puerto Ricans, or Mexicans, will have learned their lesson and vote differently when they come here...
You're an idiot in comparing Puerto Ricans to Mexicans. That's like comparing French and German as being the same.  


I would say that in terms of the basics, they are culturally closer to one another than most French are to most Germans.  In terms of the cultural traits that matter in a political context, they are quite comparable, even if somewhat different.



Little observation from my past.  When I was TDY in Honduras, we (the Air Force) were requested to give preference to any airmen that spoke Spanish to serve as interpreters for the Honduran forces we would be working with and the Hondurans we would encounter when operating off base.  A large majority of the Spanish speakers that the AF sent were Puerto Ricans.  The Hondurans had a difficult time understanding the airmen.  They attributed this to the accent and dialect that the Puerto Ricans used.  They also said that the Puerto Ricans spoke at a fast rate of speech.   they didn't have the same problems with Latinos from the Texas and California areas for example. One of the Puerto Rican was being ribbed about it and the airmen took it in stride and told us English speakers that it would be the equivalent of a guy from the Bronx talking to a guy from New Orleans.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 3:27:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Fundamentally xformed. I think 2000 really is responsible for the hyperactive immigration. The dems swore to do everything to never lose power again on any level. I am curious just how many million votes will be the discrepancy between the two. It not be 8m, probably 15 m or more.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 3:28:51 PM EDT
[#42]
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Quoted:


The electoral college needs to be reformed to restore it to its proper function.  Eliminating it can only make things worse.  Why the heck would you think the popular vote is a good idea?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
When need to have elections determined by the popular vote with runoffs until one candidate gets >50% of the total vote.  
The electoral college needs to just die already.


The electoral college needs to be reformed to restore it to its proper function.  Eliminating it can only make things worse.  Why the heck would you think the popular vote is a good idea?

Because that's what democracy is?  If the majority want something they should get it unless it involves violating the constitutional rights of a minority.

The US is probably the only modern democratic country to use an archaic system like the electoral college.  Most developed nations now use the popular vote with runoffs.

Anyway, what IS the proper function of the electoral college other than to suppress the will of the people?
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 3:30:42 PM EDT
[#43]
I'm Cuban and Mrs. Miami_JBT is Boricua. Our Spanish is totally different. As is food and culture to a degree. For the both of us we're the difference of Baltimore to New York City. For the both of us compared to Mexico where difference between the United States to the United Kingdom. Sure, the same languages spoken but pretty much culturally nothing else connects.



What many people fail to grasp is that Hispanic culture doesn't exist its nationalistic culture that everyone happens to be Hispanic in.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 3:31:22 PM EDT
[#44]

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Quoted:





Because that's what democracy is?  If the majority want something they should get it unless it involves violating the constitutional rights of a minority.



The US is probably the only modern democratic country to use an archaic system like the electoral college.  Most developed nations now use the popular vote with runoffs.
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Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

When need to have elections determined by the popular vote with runoffs until one candidate gets >50% of the total vote.  

The electoral college needs to just die already.




The electoral college needs to be reformed to restore it to its proper function.  Eliminating it can only make things worse.  Why the heck would you think the popular vote is a good idea?


Because that's what democracy is?  If the majority want something they should get it unless it involves violating the constitutional rights of a minority.



The US is probably the only modern democratic country to use an archaic system like the electoral college.  Most developed nations now use the popular vote with runoffs.


It was designed to keep the populous states from running roughshod over the less-populous ones.



 
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 3:33:51 PM EDT
[#45]
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  You're right on everything except the vote for statehood. The last referendum was clearly in favor of statehood.
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This is why I'll happily sit home on election day instead of voting for a RINO turd. The GOP has committed treason against main street America. Fuck them to the pits of hell. IF Trump or Cruz win the nomination, I might reconsider.


You seem to be implying this is an "immigration" issue.....when it's clearly not.  

Puerto Ricans are US citizens...the same as you and I.  They (and us) can move freely between the states and island whenever they choose and can decide to move to any state they like....they are also fully eligible to vote if they move to the states.  You know, because they are citizens.

They are not going to become an independent state.  They have held several referendums and overwhelmingly voted to become a US state.  If anything changes, it will be in the direction of statehood.

  You're right on everything except the vote for statehood. The last referendum was clearly in favor of statehood.


Yes, that's what I said lol....maybe I confused you when I used "independent state" instead of "sovereign state" or "country" in the first sentence.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 3:34:06 PM EDT
[#46]
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Quoted:

It was designed to keep the populous states from running roughshod over the less-populous ones.
 
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Quoted:
Quoted:
When need to have elections determined by the popular vote with runoffs until one candidate gets >50% of the total vote.  
The electoral college needs to just die already.


The electoral college needs to be reformed to restore it to its proper function.  Eliminating it can only make things worse.  Why the heck would you think the popular vote is a good idea?

Because that's what democracy is?  If the majority want something they should get it unless it involves violating the constitutional rights of a minority.

The US is probably the only modern democratic country to use an archaic system like the electoral college.  Most developed nations now use the popular vote with runoffs.

It was designed to keep the populous states from running roughshod over the less-populous ones.
 

That was relevant before the internet and tv advertising.  The intention was to keep politicians from dedicating all of their resources only to the large states.  Now with TV ads and internet information it's not really a good reason to keep it anymore.

Can we all agree that "every voice should have an equal say" in a democracy?  Under our current electoral college system certain voices are worth MUCH more than others.
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 3:36:39 PM EDT
[#47]

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Yes, that's what I said lol....maybe I confused you when I used "independent state" instead of "sovereign state" or "country" in the first sentence.
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Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

This is why I'll happily sit home on election day instead of voting for a RINO turd. The GOP has committed treason against main street America. Fuck them to the pits of hell. IF Trump or Cruz win the nomination, I might reconsider.




You seem to be implying this is an "immigration" issue.....when it's clearly not.  



Puerto Ricans are US citizens...the same as you and I.  They (and us) can move freely between the states and island whenever they choose and can decide to move to any state they like....they are also fully eligible to vote if they move to the states.  You know, because they are citizens.



They are not going to become an independent state.  They have held several referendums and overwhelmingly voted to become a US state.  If anything changes, it will be in the direction of statehood.


  You're right on everything except the vote for statehood. The last referendum was clearly in favor of statehood.





Yes, that's what I said lol....maybe I confused you when I used "independent state" instead of "sovereign state" or "country" in the first sentence.
Yup... got confused.

 
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 3:51:20 PM EDT
[#48]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:





That was relevant before the internet and tv advertising.  The intention was to keep politicians from dedicating all of their resources only to the large states.  Now with TV ads and internet information it's not really a good reason to keep it anymore.



Can we all agree that "every voice should have an equal say" in a democracy?  Under our current electoral college system certain voices are worth MUCH more than others.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

When need to have elections determined by the popular vote with runoffs until one candidate gets >50% of the total vote.  

The electoral college needs to just die already.




The electoral college needs to be reformed to restore it to its proper function.  Eliminating it can only make things worse.  Why the heck would you think the popular vote is a good idea?


Because that's what democracy is?  If the majority want something they should get it unless it involves violating the constitutional rights of a minority.



The US is probably the only modern democratic country to use an archaic system like the electoral college.  Most developed nations now use the popular vote with runoffs.


It was designed to keep the populous states from running roughshod over the less-populous ones.

 


That was relevant before the internet and tv advertising.  The intention was to keep politicians from dedicating all of their resources only to the large states.  Now with TV ads and internet information it's not really a good reason to keep it anymore.



Can we all agree that "every voice should have an equal say" in a democracy?  Under our current electoral college system certain voices are worth MUCH more than others.


Even with the mass media, a lot of campaigning is still done in person.



 
Link Posted: 7/27/2015 3:56:10 PM EDT
[#49]
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We should have let PR become their own country a long time ago.
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We should  have indeed  but  it wouldn't  really  make  any difference  because  with our politicians  doing nothing  about  our porous  borders  they would  end up here anyway.



Link Posted: 7/27/2015 4:06:29 PM EDT
[#50]
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Can we all agree that "every voice should have an equal say" in a democracy?  
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Can we all agree that "every voice should have an equal say" in a democracy?  


You want Democracy?   Change the constitution:

Article IV, Section 4:

The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence.


https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articleiv#section4

We were not founded as a Democracy and for good reason:

Federalist #10:

From this view of the subject it may be concluded that a pure democracy, by which I mean a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person, can admit of no cure for the mischiefs of faction. A common passion or interest will, in almost every case, be felt by a majority of the whole; a communication and concert result from the form of government itself; and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party or an obnoxious individual. Hence it is that such democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths. Theoretic politicians, who have patronized this species of government, have erroneously supposed that by reducing mankind to a perfect equality in their political rights, they would, at the same time, be perfectly equalized and assimilated in their possessions, their opinions, and their passions.

A republic, by which I mean a government in which the scheme of representation takes place, opens a different prospect, and promises the cure for which we are seeking. Let us examine the points in which it varies from pure democracy, and we shall comprehend both the nature of the cure and the efficacy which it must derive from the Union.

The two great points of difference between a democracy and a republic are: first, the delegation of the government, in the latter, to a small number of citizens elected by the rest; secondly, the greater number of citizens, and greater sphere of country, over which the latter may be extended.


http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa10.htm
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