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Posted: 8/2/2015 9:43:39 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your *own* source *states* fourteen or fifteen... Good grief. Even that is a reach, because *your* source states that the only record is that it took place before Smith was killed in 1844. If she was born in 1828, she could have been -per *your* source- as old as 16... And... You have absolutely no formal record that he consummated the "sealing" to the girl... Your own source is not absolute... But yet you claim absolutely 14... As if your source was chiseled concrete... Good grief. My claim that it there was only one proven 14 year old --who claimed to her grave, and in two published books that Smith never touched her... Stands as accurate... Even *your* sources back me up... And make *you* look disingenuous... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Actually he married two, Nancy Winchester was the other. Also, Fanny Alger and Flora Ann Woodworth were both 16. Your *own* source *states* fourteen or fifteen... Good grief. Even that is a reach, because *your* source states that the only record is that it took place before Smith was killed in 1844. If she was born in 1828, she could have been -per *your* source- as old as 16... And... You have absolutely no formal record that he consummated the "sealing" to the girl... Your own source is not absolute... But yet you claim absolutely 14... As if your source was chiseled concrete... Good grief. My claim that it there was only one proven 14 year old --who claimed to her grave, and in two published books that Smith never touched her... Stands as accurate... Even *your* sources back me up... And make *you* look disingenuous... Pretty messed up for a 38y.o. church leader to isolate a pubescent teenager in his house then marry her when the wife was away. Add to that the adultery with Fanny Alger. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 9:46:37 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. It is sacred worship. Christ-centered worship. To say otherwise is to be purposefully ignorant of others beliefs and faith. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's idolatry. People should know this and not be fed "milk" before they get sucked in. No. It is sacred worship. Christ-centered worship. To say otherwise is to be purposefully ignorant of others beliefs and faith. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 9:47:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
]Actually no. Jesus taught in the synagogues, the places of Jewish worship, yes He went to the Temple in Jerusalem (the only one accepted in Judaism), but once His sacrifice was complete, the Temple became obsolete. The apostles briefly went to the Temple in Jerusalem because they were Jews. After Pentecost, and once the ministries started, they worshiped in houses. There was only one temple at a time, and the last one was destroyed in 70 AD. The New Testament NEVER tells us we must worship in a temple, any temple. Our Temple is in our hearts (1 Cor. 3:16-17) Christ worshipped in the Temple. Christ cleansed the Temple. After Christs ascension... New Testament apostles continued to worship in the Jerusalem temple after Christ's ascension (Acts 2:46, 3:1-10, 5:20-42). Even Paul worshipped there (Acts 21:26-30, 22:17, 24:6-18, 25:8, 26:21). Paul is explicitly said to have performed purification rituals (Acts 21:26, 24:18), and prayed in the temple (22:17, cf. 3:1); he claims that he has not offended "against the temple," (25:8). Indeed, Paul also offered sacrifice (prosfora) in the temple (21:26, cf. Numbers 6:14-18), a very odd thing for him to do if the temple had been completely superceded after Christ's ascension. Finally, and most importantly, Paul had a vision of Christ ("The Just One" ton dikaion) in the temple (Acts 22:14-21), Just as Christ and the Apostles worshipped in the Temple, and kept it sacred. So do we. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 9:47:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's idolatry. People should know this and not be fed "milk" before they get sucked in. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well, I don't have any secret ceremonies to hide, so there's no plank in my eye. The point was that it was very un-gentlemanly of you to post something that was sacred to the LDS members of arfcom... You have been caught in several lies in this thread. You have made unsubstantiated claims about LDS beliefs and practices. You have said that a video was about a Mormon and a Christian discussing the Bible, and it turned-out to be an anti-Mormon production. You have *zero* credibility, and I highly suspect your claims to Christianity with your links to at least one *active* homosexual. Plus your reliance on atheists, and your demand for "works," and "science." I had an anti-Mormon "minister" braggingly show me his copy of our Temple ritual. I know that ungentlemanly people who mock the sacred have it. That does not surprise me... We invite folks to come worship with us. We send thousands of missionaries out. The thing is... It is our obligation to follow Christ. Christ treated the Temple sacredly. The Apostles treated the Temple sacredly after His ascension. We now treat the Temple sacredly...  Do you even know what idolatry is? "Fed milk" Oh wow, where do you come up with some of this stuff? Uh huh, if I listened to you, I'd end up on a plane to Guyana with a refreshing cup of kool-aid awaiting me... |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 9:48:58 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's idolatry. People should know this and not be fed "milk" before they get sucked in. You really have a lot of anger issues towards LDS faith and families... Wow. Milk-before-meat is a Biblically-taught doctrine. It was taught in the ancient Biblical Church... And it is taught in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. It is a sacred principle. It is how God works. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 9:54:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You really have a lot of anger issues towards LDS faith and families... Wow. Milk-before-meat is a Biblically-taught doctrine. It was taught in the ancient Biblical Church... And it is taught in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. It is a sacred principle. It is how God works. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's idolatry. People should know this and not be fed "milk" before they get sucked in. You really have a lot of anger issues towards LDS faith and families... Wow. Milk-before-meat is a Biblically-taught doctrine. It was taught in the ancient Biblical Church... And it is taught in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. It is a sacred principle. It is how God works. ETA: Now I really do want cookies. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 9:57:30 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You again? I thought your account would have been locked by now. I am more-surprised at other so-called "Christians" who have supported his open-mocking of Christ-centered Temple-worship... Than I am that he has not been locked. Honestly. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:01:21 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Christ worshipped in the Temple. Christ cleansed the Temple. After Christs ascension... New Testament apostles continued to worship in the Jerusalem temple after Christ's ascension (Acts 2:46, 3:1-10, 5:20-42). Even Paul worshipped there (Acts 21:26-30, 22:17, 24:6-18, 25:8, 26:21). Paul is explicitly said to have performed purification rituals (Acts 21:26, 24:18), and prayed in the temple (22:17, cf. 3:1); he claims that he has not offended "against the temple," (25:8). Indeed, Paul also offered sacrifice (prosfora) in the temple (21:26, cf. Numbers 6:14-18), a very odd thing for him to do if the temple had been completely superceded after Christ's ascension. Finally, and most importantly, Paul had a vision of Christ ("The Just One" ton dikaion) in the temple (Acts 22:14-21), Just as Christ and the Apostles worshipped in the Temple, and kept it sacred. So do we. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ]Actually no. Jesus taught in the synagogues, the places of Jewish worship, yes He went to the Temple in Jerusalem (the only one accepted in Judaism), but once His sacrifice was complete, the Temple became obsolete. The apostles briefly went to the Temple in Jerusalem because they were Jews. After Pentecost, and once the ministries started, they worshiped in houses. There was only one temple at a time, and the last one was destroyed in 70 AD. The New Testament NEVER tells us we must worship in a temple, any temple. Our Temple is in our hearts (1 Cor. 3:16-17) Christ worshipped in the Temple. Christ cleansed the Temple. After Christs ascension... New Testament apostles continued to worship in the Jerusalem temple after Christ's ascension (Acts 2:46, 3:1-10, 5:20-42). Even Paul worshipped there (Acts 21:26-30, 22:17, 24:6-18, 25:8, 26:21). Paul is explicitly said to have performed purification rituals (Acts 21:26, 24:18), and prayed in the temple (22:17, cf. 3:1); he claims that he has not offended "against the temple," (25:8). Indeed, Paul also offered sacrifice (prosfora) in the temple (21:26, cf. Numbers 6:14-18), a very odd thing for him to do if the temple had been completely superceded after Christ's ascension. Finally, and most importantly, Paul had a vision of Christ ("The Just One" ton dikaion) in the temple (Acts 22:14-21), Just as Christ and the Apostles worshipped in the Temple, and kept it sacred. So do we. So can I. Still there is no requirement in the New Testament by Paul. He had his own reasons, probably to appease the Jews, but it is clear in the epistles that Christ is the final sacrifice. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:05:27 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Fed milk" Oh wow, where do you come up with some of this stuff? Uh huh, if I listened to you, I'd end up on a plane to Guyana with a refreshing cup of kool-aid awaiting me... "Some are so near spiritual death that they must be spoonfed on the broth of fellowship, or nourished carefully on activities and programs. As the scriptures say, they must have milk before meat. (See 1 Cor. 3:2;D&C 19:22.) But we must take care lest the only nourishment they receive thereafter is that broth." Boyd K . Packer. In other words, not given the whole truth of the LDS belief system before they commit. Hence the secret rituals. By contrast, all of Biblical Christianity is between Genesis 1:1 and Rev 22:21. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:08:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am more-surprised at other so-called "Christians" who have supported his open-mocking of Christ-centered Temple-worship... Than I am that he has not been locked. Honestly. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You again? I thought your account would have been locked by now. I am more-surprised at other so-called "Christians" who have supported his open-mocking of Christ-centered Temple-worship... Than I am that he has not been locked. Honestly. I actually have no answers on that. The question itself is hard for me to grasp. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:10:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You really have a lot of anger issues towards LDS faith and families... Wow. Milk-before-meat is a Biblically-taught doctrine. It was taught in the ancient Biblical Church... And it is taught in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. It is a sacred principle. It is how God works. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's idolatry. People should know this and not be fed "milk" before they get sucked in. You really have a lot of anger issues towards LDS faith and families... Wow. Milk-before-meat is a Biblically-taught doctrine. It was taught in the ancient Biblical Church... And it is taught in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. It is a sacred principle. It is how God works. And no, it is not a Biblically supported doctrine. Disciples at the time were taught the scriptures; they weren't kept from secret rituals like we see with temple endowment. The Bible is all there is. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:17:29 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:17:38 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am more-surprised at other so-called "Christians" who have supported his open-mocking of Christ-centered Temple-worship... Than I am that he has not been locked. Honestly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You again? I thought your account would have been locked by now. I am more-surprised at other so-called "Christians" who have supported his open-mocking of Christ-centered Temple-worship... Than I am that he has not been locked. Honestly. You guy's attempt to get someone locked because they disagree with you is as disgusting as Arocking someone. You ought to be ashamed. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:21:53 PM EDT
[#14]
What happened to them? Three words: Lake of Fire. Sorry.
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:25:44 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your own historian says she regretted it. Pretty messed up for a 38y.o. church leader to isolate a pubescent teenager in his house then marry her when the wife was away. Add to that the adultery with Fanny Alger. This is a perfect example of your posts. You get caught lying that Smith married a second 14 year old... Your own post completely refutes your original claim puts her age closer to 16... Shows that you are purposefully disingenuous... So then you make additional claims... That no *reliable* source can back-up... There is no *verifiable* source that Alger was anything other than "married" to Smith... According to Hancock, Smith was formally "married" to Alger... http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/history-2/plural-wives-overview/fanny-alger/ According to the Bible, Gods anointed practiced Polygamy... You can question polygamy all you want... But it was practiced in the Bible, and by all accounts, Smith was "married" to Alger... But... Even with all the evidence Smith was married to Alger, only circumstantial and second-hand evidence ever says that Smith consummated the marriage in the Biblical sense of polygamy... |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:28:28 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL, so you can copy and paste. So can I. Still there is no requirement in the New Testament by Paul. He had his own reasons, probably to appease the Jews, but it is clear in the epistles that Christ is the final sacrifice. The source is accurate... The scriptures are clear. Christ worshipped in the Temple, and kept it free from those who are not supposed to be there. The Apostles worshipped in the Temple. You can question Paul's motives. He went to the Temple to worship. So do we... |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:29:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You guy's attempt to get someone locked because they disagree with you is as disgusting as Arocking someone. You ought to be ashamed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You again? I thought your account would have been locked by now. I am more-surprised at other so-called "Christians" who have supported his open-mocking of Christ-centered Temple-worship... Than I am that he has not been locked. Honestly. You guy's attempt to get someone locked because they disagree with you is as disgusting as Arocking someone. You ought to be ashamed. Changed my mind,,, Ashamed like when in a discussion in a thread where I was talking to someone else and you came at me guns blazing, cussing me out, telling me to go fuck myself, etc. Shamed like you should have been? I believe I IMed you about it as I was pretty upset, you and I had no history then, this makes the 2nd time you have made shit personal between you and I. You have the nerve to call me AROCK? Whatever.. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:29:42 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote History[b]Quoted:[/b
In other words, not given the whole truth of the LDS belief system before they commit. Hence the secret rituals. You have quite the imagination... That is a stretch, even for you... The milk-before-meat principle applied in the Bible, and it applies today... |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:31:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
God works by writing it all in the Bible. Not with secret masonic-inspired rituals. And no, it is not a Biblically supported doctrine. Disciples at the time were taught the scriptures; they weren't kept from secret rituals like we see with temple endowment. The Bible is all there is. Christ worshipped in Temples. After his ascension, the Apostles worshipped in Temples. We worship in Temples. The milk-before-meat principle is Biblically-taught... There is a difference (to those who have faith) between secret and sacred... The scriptures, and the words of prophets is all there is... The Bible is certainly part of it... |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:34:08 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You guy's attempt to get someone locked because they disagree with you is as disgusting as Arocking someone. You ought to be ashamed. Seriously? I thought you were all-about being a gentleman...? His posting sacred ordinances to openly-mock arfcoms LDS members would offend your gentlemanly senses, I honestly thought... Honestly. I guess not?-?-!-! |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:36:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is a perfect example of your posts. You get caught lying that Smith married a second 14 year old... Your own post completely refutes your original claim puts her age closer to 16... Shows that you are purposefully disingenuous... So then you make additional claims... That no *reliable* source can back-up... There is no *verifiable* source that Alger was anything other than "married" to Smith... According to Hancock, Smith was formally "married" to Alger... http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/history-2/plural-wives-overview/fanny-alger/ According to the Bible, Gods anointed practiced Polygamy... You can question polygamy all you want... But it was practiced in the Bible, and by all accounts, Smith was "married" to Alger... But... Even with all the evidence Smith was married to Alger, only circumstantial and second-hand evidence ever says that Smith consummated the marriage in the Biblical sense of polygamy... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Your own historian says she regretted it. Pretty messed up for a 38y.o. church leader to isolate a pubescent teenager in his house then marry her when the wife was away. Add to that the adultery with Fanny Alger. This is a perfect example of your posts. You get caught lying that Smith married a second 14 year old... Your own post completely refutes your original claim puts her age closer to 16... Shows that you are purposefully disingenuous... So then you make additional claims... That no *reliable* source can back-up... There is no *verifiable* source that Alger was anything other than "married" to Smith... According to Hancock, Smith was formally "married" to Alger... http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/history-2/plural-wives-overview/fanny-alger/ According to the Bible, Gods anointed practiced Polygamy... You can question polygamy all you want... But it was practiced in the Bible, and by all accounts, Smith was "married" to Alger... But... Even with all the evidence Smith was married to Alger, only circumstantial and second-hand evidence ever says that Smith consummated the marriage in the Biblical sense of polygamy... Polyandry was never endorsed in the Bible, and adultery is condemned. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:36:54 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The source is accurate... The scriptures are clear. Christ worshipped in the Temple, and kept it free from those who are not supposed to be there. The Apostles worshipped in the Temple. You can question Paul's motives. He went to the Temple to worship. So do we... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: LOL, so you can copy and paste. So can I. Still there is no requirement in the New Testament by Paul. He had his own reasons, probably to appease the Jews, but it is clear in the epistles that Christ is the final sacrifice. The source is accurate... The scriptures are clear. Christ worshipped in the Temple, and kept it free from those who are not supposed to be there. The Apostles worshipped in the Temple. You can question Paul's motives. He went to the Temple to worship. So do we... |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:38:27 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Christ worshipped in Temples. After his ascension, the Apostles worshipped in Temples. We worship in Temples. The milk-before-meat principle is Biblically-taught... There is a difference (to those who have faith) between secret and sacred... The scriptures, and the words of prophets is all there is... The Bible is certainly part of it... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: God works by writing it all in the Bible. Not with secret masonic-inspired rituals. And no, it is not a Biblically supported doctrine. Disciples at the time were taught the scriptures; they weren't kept from secret rituals like we see with temple endowment. The Bible is all there is. Christ worshipped in Temples. After his ascension, the Apostles worshipped in Temples. We worship in Temples. The milk-before-meat principle is Biblically-taught... There is a difference (to those who have faith) between secret and sacred... The scriptures, and the words of prophets is all there is... The Bible is certainly part of it... 1 Cor 3:16-17 |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:41:03 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seriously? I thought you were all-about being a gentleman...? His posting sacred ordinances to openly-mock arfcoms LDS members would offend your gentlemanly senses, I honestly thought... Honestly. I guess not?-?-!-! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You guy's attempt to get someone locked because they disagree with you is as disgusting as Arocking someone. You ought to be ashamed. Seriously? I thought you were all-about being a gentleman...? His posting sacred ordinances to openly-mock arfcoms LDS members would offend your gentlemanly senses, I honestly thought... Honestly. I guess not?-?-!-! All these dudes want to do it bash and trash, I'm starting to get sucked into their bullshit games and become angry. So, I am walking away from this thread for now. Painless with his AROCK comment and M-1975 with his posting of temple videos, child molester comments as to Joseph smith and countless other slams has me pretty disgusted. It's not worth my night... |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:45:36 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Changed my mind,,, Ashamed like when in a discussion in a thread where I was talking to someone else and you came at me guns blazing, cussing me out, telling me to go fuck myself, etc. Shamed like you should have been? I believe I IMed you about it as I was pretty upset, you and I had no history then, this makes the 2nd time you have made shit personal between you and I. You have the nerve to call me AROCK? Whatever.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You again? I thought your account would have been locked by now. I am more-surprised at other so-called "Christians" who have supported his open-mocking of Christ-centered Temple-worship... Than I am that he has not been locked. Honestly. You guy's attempt to get someone locked because they disagree with you is as disgusting as Arocking someone. You ought to be ashamed. Changed my mind,,, Ashamed like when in a discussion in a thread where I was talking to someone else and you came at me guns blazing, cussing me out, telling me to go fuck myself, etc. Shamed like you should have been? I believe I IMed you about it as I was pretty upset, you and I had no history then, this makes the 2nd time you have made shit personal between you and I. You have the nerve to call me AROCK? Whatever.. Still more 'lost souls' claiming to worship the 'same' Jesus? lol I was at a wedding last month - at the reception we were chatting with our table mates. One guy, a muslim, went on and on about how 'we all' worship the same God. It was not the time/place to express my opinion, so I found other subjects to discuss. No such thing as 'same God'. The Bible clearly states that there is but one God, one Son and one Holy Spirit. 'No man comes to the Father, except through Me'. Pretty clear and simple. If you are reading/trusting/worshipping/praying to/comparing anyone/thing to God....you are wrong. End of story. Now, if you want to ignore the Bible - well, that is your call - free will and all. I can't help you with that because the Bible clearly accounts for that and says you are a fool....and we all should know better than to argue with fool. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:46:25 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You guy's attempt to get someone locked because they disagree with you is as disgusting as Arocking someone. You ought to be ashamed. I guess I need to clarify... I *honestly* took O_P as a man of honesty and integrity... *Nobody* wanted M-1975 for disagreeing. Of course folks are going to disagree. Sometimes folks have to agree to disagree. What M-1975 did was not simply "disagreeing." Well... In addition to his questionable claims of LDS beliefs.. The first thing he did that got on my radar was he openly claimed that Smith was a sexual predator. Then he posted what he claimed to be clandestine videos from inside LDS Temples where Christ-centered worship takes place. Nobody complained about him being disagreeable. Nobody complained about his outright fabrications and lies about LDS beliefs. The complaint... My complaint is his claim that Smith was a sexual predator, and his posting videos he claimed were clandestine from inside the LDS temple. Your friend is pathetic. I doubt he is a *real* Christian from his links to *active* homosexuals and his reliance on atheists... Nobody complained about him being disagreeable. The point was his attack on LDS arfcommers for Smith being a sexual predator, and his posting his clandestine videos from inside an LDS Temple to mock LDS arfcommers... I hope this clarifies the issue... As far as "shame?" None here. Your guy left the arfcom reservation, and needed to know about it. It was more than disagreeing... |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:50:33 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I need to clarify... I *honestly* took O_P as a man of honesty and integrity... *Nobody* wanted M-1975 for disagreeing. Of course folks are going to disagree. Sometimes folks have to agree to disagree. What M-1975 did was not simply "disagreeing." Well... In addition to his questionable claims of LDS beliefs.. The first thing he did that got on my radar was he openly claimed that Smith was a sexual predator. Then he posted what he claimed to be clandestine videos from inside LDS Temples where Christ-centered worship takes place. Nobody complained about him being disagreeable. Nobody complained about his outright fabrications and lies about LDS beliefs. The complaint... My complaint is his claim that Smith was a sexual predator, and his posting videos he claimed were clandestine from inside the LDS temple. Your friend is pathetic. I doubt he is a *real* Christian from his links to *active* homosexuals and his reliance on atheists... Nobody complained about him being disagreeable. The point was his attack on LDS arfcommers for Smith being a sexual predator, and his posting his clandestine videos from inside an LDS Temple to mock LDS arfcommers... I hope this clarifies the issue... As far as "shame?" None here. Your guy left the arfcom reservation, and needed to know about it. It was more than disagreeing... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You guy's attempt to get someone locked because they disagree with you is as disgusting as Arocking someone. You ought to be ashamed. I guess I need to clarify... I *honestly* took O_P as a man of honesty and integrity... *Nobody* wanted M-1975 for disagreeing. Of course folks are going to disagree. Sometimes folks have to agree to disagree. What M-1975 did was not simply "disagreeing." Well... In addition to his questionable claims of LDS beliefs.. The first thing he did that got on my radar was he openly claimed that Smith was a sexual predator. Then he posted what he claimed to be clandestine videos from inside LDS Temples where Christ-centered worship takes place. Nobody complained about him being disagreeable. Nobody complained about his outright fabrications and lies about LDS beliefs. The complaint... My complaint is his claim that Smith was a sexual predator, and his posting videos he claimed were clandestine from inside the LDS temple. Your friend is pathetic. I doubt he is a *real* Christian from his links to *active* homosexuals and his reliance on atheists... Nobody complained about him being disagreeable. The point was his attack on LDS arfcommers for Smith being a sexual predator, and his posting his clandestine videos from inside an LDS Temple to mock LDS arfcommers... I hope this clarifies the issue... As far as "shame?" None here. Your guy left the arfcom reservation, and needed to know about it. It was more than disagreeing... The Bible says different, however. PS: if those weren't real videos of real ceremonies you guys wouldn't have freaked out like you did. Now you are just trying to cover it up. But...they're already old, and have made their rounds around the 'net. Seriously though, the SLC temple looks like a Vegas hotel. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:53:52 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL a LDS website? Seriously? Dude they were caught having sex by Emma, and she kicked Fanny out of the house. This was before any claim that God told him to practice polygamy (as if). Polyandry was never endorsed in the Bible, and adultery is condemned. There is no source that Smith ever consummated any sealing to any woman that was married... You have no source. The formal announcement to practice polygamy was *after* it had already began, and after Smith claims God told him to practice it... Smith never committed adultery with Alger. Any claim that Smith and Alger were caught by Emma is not known for sure, and is absolutely not first-hand... You do not know what Emma saw, if anything, and Emma claimed later in her life that there were no other women... But there are multiple sources who make Alger one of the women Smith was sealed to... If Smith *was* married to Alger, and it was in the Biblical sense... And Emma *did* catch them in relations (which is suspect)... Smith, Biblically, would be doing nothing-wrong... Did Smith practice polygamy in the Biblical sense with Alger? And what if he actually did? It does not bother me in the least-bit... |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:56:28 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no source that Smith ever consummated any sealing to any woman that was married... You have no source. The formal announcement to practice polygamy was *after* it had already began, and after Smith claims God told him to practice it... Smith never committed adultery with Alger. Any claim that Smith and Alger were caught by Emma is not known for sure, and is absolutely not first-hand... You do not know what Emma saw, if anything, and Emma claimed later in her life that there were no other women... But there are multiple sources who make Alger one of the women Smith was sealed to... If Smith *was* married to Alger, and it was in the Biblical sense... And Emma *did* catch them in relations (which is suspect)... Smith, Biblically, would be doing nothing-wrong... Did Smith practice polygamy in the Biblical sense with Alger? And what if he actually did? It does not bother me in the least-bit... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: LOL a LDS website? Seriously? Dude they were caught having sex by Emma, and she kicked Fanny out of the house. This was before any claim that God told him to practice polygamy (as if). Polyandry was never endorsed in the Bible, and adultery is condemned. There is no source that Smith ever consummated any sealing to any woman that was married... You have no source. The formal announcement to practice polygamy was *after* it had already began, and after Smith claims God told him to practice it... Smith never committed adultery with Alger. Any claim that Smith and Alger were caught by Emma is not known for sure, and is absolutely not first-hand... You do not know what Emma saw, if anything, and Emma claimed later in her life that there were no other women... But there are multiple sources who make Alger one of the women Smith was sealed to... If Smith *was* married to Alger, and it was in the Biblical sense... And Emma *did* catch them in relations (which is suspect)... Smith, Biblically, would be doing nothing-wrong... Did Smith practice polygamy in the Biblical sense with Alger? And what if he actually did? It does not bother me in the least-bit... Hey if that was the only issue..you might be able to snow everyone here. However, there's the other 30 or 40 stories. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:01:01 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You already don't think I'm a real Christian because I don't submit to the LDS or their false prophets. The Bible says different, however. PS: if those weren't real videos of real ceremonies you guys wouldn't have freaked out like you did. Now you are just trying to cover it up. But...they're already old, and have made their rounds around the 'net. Seriously though, the SLC temple looks like a Vegas hotel. I respected O_P... Why he is defending you is beyond me... *You* posted the Temple videos in an attempt to offend the LDS members of arfcom... Nobody tried to stop you, and you did it to be *purposefully* antagonistic. The SLC Temple is important to LDS members of arfcom... |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:02:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL just honest LDS historians. Hey if that was the only issue..you might be able to snow everyone here. However, there's the other 30 or 40 stories. I put more trust in LDS historians than I do in your sources... *You* have sourced atheists. *You* have sourced at least one *active* homosexual. Yeah... I trust my sources... Over yours. I trust my foundation... Over yours. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:11:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Millions have been born and died all around the world in the past never knowing the Jewish peoples exsisted, or of their god. Like the native peoples of the Americas they never knew the Jewish peoples, they never knew that Jesus lived and died until peoples from Europe told them. So what happened to the souls of the millions of others that were not chosen to be privileged with this knowledge. Do you really think God would would not have a plan to deal with this? |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:15:29 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Changed my mind,,, Ashamed like when in a discussion in a thread where I was talking to someone else and you came at me guns blazing, cussing me out, telling me to go fuck myself, etc. Shamed like you should have been? I believe I IMed you about it as I was pretty upset, you and I had no history then, this makes the 2nd time you have made shit personal between you and I. You have the nerve to call me AROCK? Whatever.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You again? I thought your account would have been locked by now. I am more-surprised at other so-called "Christians" who have supported his open-mocking of Christ-centered Temple-worship... Than I am that he has not been locked. Honestly. You guy's attempt to get someone locked because they disagree with you is as disgusting as Arocking someone. You ought to be ashamed. Changed my mind,,, Ashamed like when in a discussion in a thread where I was talking to someone else and you came at me guns blazing, cussing me out, telling me to go fuck myself, etc. Shamed like you should have been? I believe I IMed you about it as I was pretty upset, you and I had no history then, this makes the 2nd time you have made shit personal between you and I. You have the nerve to call me AROCK? Whatever.. I never "cussed you out". You are a liar. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:17:27 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Changed my mind,,, Ashamed like when in a discussion in a thread where I was talking to someone else and you came at me guns blazing, cussing me out, telling me to go fuck myself, etc. Shamed like you should have been? I believe I IMed you about it as I was pretty upset, you and I had no history then, this makes the 2nd time you have made shit personal between you and I. You have the nerve to call me AROCK? Whatever.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You again? I thought your account would have been locked by now. I am more-surprised at other so-called "Christians" who have supported his open-mocking of Christ-centered Temple-worship... Than I am that he has not been locked. Honestly. You guy's attempt to get someone locked because they disagree with you is as disgusting as Arocking someone. You ought to be ashamed. Changed my mind,,, Ashamed like when in a discussion in a thread where I was talking to someone else and you came at me guns blazing, cussing me out, telling me to go fuck myself, etc. Shamed like you should have been? I believe I IMed you about it as I was pretty upset, you and I had no history then, this makes the 2nd time you have made shit personal between you and I. You have the nerve to call me AROCK? Whatever.. Old Painless never cussed you out or told you to go fuck yourself. That is a lie, prove me wrong if you can. 
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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:53:20 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Old Painless never cussed you out or told you to go fuck yourself. That is a lie, prove me wrong if you can. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You again? I thought your account would have been locked by now. I am more-surprised at other so-called "Christians" who have supported his open-mocking of Christ-centered Temple-worship... Than I am that he has not been locked. Honestly. You guy's attempt to get someone locked because they disagree with you is as disgusting as Arocking someone. You ought to be ashamed. Changed my mind,,, Ashamed like when in a discussion in a thread where I was talking to someone else and you came at me guns blazing, cussing me out, telling me to go fuck myself, etc. Shamed like you should have been? I believe I IMed you about it as I was pretty upset, you and I had no history then, this makes the 2nd time you have made shit personal between you and I. You have the nerve to call me AROCK? Whatever.. Old Painless never cussed you out or told you to go fuck yourself. That is a lie, prove me wrong if you can. When their beliefs, which they insist are Christian, are compared to the Bible and historical, true Christianity, they are so blatantly - obviously - irrefutably - UNChristian... ...that they have no other course but to personally attack those that can make the distinctions clear to others. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 12:10:23 AM EDT
[#36]
Why do you dudes get so upset at videos being taken? The church I used to go to would video every mass and put it online. No shame. They wanted to spread "the word".
Do you not want people to know what lds worship is like? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 12:18:41 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do you dudes get so upset at videos being taken? The church I used to go to would video every mass and put it online. No shame. They wanted to spread "the word". Do you not want people to know what lds worship is like? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile No they most certainly do not want that information out. Their approach is to entice people into joining their religion by claiming they are Christians. When the true doctrines and rituals are made known, then it is more than apparent that the religion is anything but Christian. So, their SOP is to call people who expose these differences hateful, liars, bigots or any other derogatory term they can think of. And they will try to get a guy banned for merely posting a video that reveals what they actually do believe and practice. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 1:05:20 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All these dudes want to do it bash and trash, I'm starting to get sucked into their bullshit games and become angry. So, I am walking away from this thread for now. Painless with his AROCK comment and M-1975 with his posting of temple videos, child molester comments as to Joseph smith and countless other slams has me pretty disgusted. It's not worth my night... Yeah... Don't let it get to you... They consider it a victory when they call-names, make enemies, and castigate others of faith, I guess. You are a good dude... O_P is usually a good dude... I am surprised, more than anything, honestly... |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 1:21:49 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never "cussed you out". You are a liar. You may be right... But his emotions got pretty hot when he realized you were going to support your boy for posting the LDS Temple videos, and claiming that Smith was a sexual predator... You supporting your boy, and sacrificing the sites long-trusted COC to hang LDS members out to dry really surprised a lot of us... We used to be able to count on your gentlemanliness... And when that didn't work... We used to be able to look to the COC when an antagonist got out of line... Now? Emotions are hot in a few people?-? I guess. Me? I served a mission, I know anti-LDS folks will sacrifice their ethics, sacrifice their reputation... just for the chance to take a cheap-shot at folks of faith who honor Christ... |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 1:31:18 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do you dudes get so upset at videos being taken? The church I used to go to would video every mass and put it online. No shame. They wanted to spread "the word". Do you not want people to know what lds worship is like? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile There was a time in the not-too-distant past when LDS folks could count on the gentlemanliness and the generosity of a *small* handful of anti-Mormon "Christians" to keep the *real* antagonists in-line... There was a time in the not-too-distant past when the kinds of things... Accusing Smith of being a sexual predator, posting clandestine LDS videos... Would lead to trouble for the anti-Mormon antagonist... Of course anti-Mormons are going to post clandestine videos. Its what they do. I had an anti-Mormon "minister" brag that he had the entire Temple ceremony in a book he had. Meh. Of course we know anti-Mormons are going to anti-Mormon. The issue here is that we consider the Temple sacred. Jesus cast-out folks from the Temple who were not supposed to be there. Same with us. We don't talk about it. We don't discuss it outside the Temple... Why? Because Christ treated the Temple with so much respect... The issue isn't that an antagonist purposefully tried to rile-up the LDS arfcommers... It is that the usual "respectful," "gentlemanly" antagonists let it ride, and supported their fellow so-called "Christian." And to top that off, when they would not regulate themselves, site-staff didn't do anything to the antagonist... I guess that is the issue... Antagonists are going to antagonize. They do what they do... But Christ actually formed a whip to drive-away the folks trying to defile the Temple... And *we* have the same obligation today... Why do we treat the Temple so sacred? Because Christ did. And I do not think the issue here is the antagonist himself... It is that folks who want positive back-and-forth on the site have usually stepped-in to regulate the antagonist... And that didn't happen here. And that is disappointing. Why do Latter-Day followers of Christ treat the Temple so sacred? Because Christ did. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 1:32:30 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You may be right... But his emotions got pretty hot when he realized you were going to support your boy for posting the LDS Temple videos, and claiming that Smith was a sexual predator... You supporting your boy, and sacrificing the sites long-trusted COC to hang LDS members out to dry really surprised a lot of us... We used to be able to count on your gentlemanliness... And when that didn't work... We used to be able to look to the COC when an antagonist got out of line... Now? Emotions are hot in a few people?-? I guess. Me? I served a mission, I know anti-LDS folks will sacrifice their ethics, sacrifice their reputation... just for the chance to take a cheap-shot at folks of faith who honor Christ... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I never "cussed you out". You are a liar. You may be right... But his emotions got pretty hot when he realized you were going to support your boy for posting the LDS Temple videos, and claiming that Smith was a sexual predator... You supporting your boy, and sacrificing the sites long-trusted COC to hang LDS members out to dry really surprised a lot of us... We used to be able to count on your gentlemanliness... And when that didn't work... We used to be able to look to the COC when an antagonist got out of line... Now? Emotions are hot in a few people?-? I guess. Me? I served a mission, I know anti-LDS folks will sacrifice their ethics, sacrifice their reputation... just for the chance to take a cheap-shot at folks of faith who honor Christ... May be right, wow
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Posted: 8/3/2015 1:44:14 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
May be right, wow What is your point...? Emotions got pretty hot. People see things differently when they get hot... I usually give O_P the benefit of the doubt... And do here... But... calling Smith a sexual predator, and posting LDS Temple videos was no-go in the not too distant past... Folks who *honestly* wanted two-way discussions would keep the hardcore antagonists in line... I guess folks got hot when they realized that wasn't going to be the case here... |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 1:57:10 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Old Painless never cussed you out or told you to go fuck yourself. That is a lie, prove me wrong if you can. Yeah, he did... Prove you wrong if I can? You're nothing and no one, you weren't a part of the conversation other than your appearance now to belly in and act like some wanna be tough guy. I guess I should be scared, you might get all mental and pound on your Enter key until your keyboard breaks, in that event, go get me, tiger! In the mean time, I'll let you and your crew of fellow sophisticates in on a tender morsel, the Atheists are having a field day with this thread... |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 2:00:41 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is your point...? Emotions got pretty hot. People see things differently when they get hot... I usually give O_P the benefit of the doubt... And do here... But... calling Smith a sexual predator, and posting LDS Temple videos was no-go in the not too distant past... Folks who *honestly* wanted two-way discussions would keep the hardcore antagonists in line... I guess folks got hot when they realized that wasn't going to be the case here... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
May be right, wow What is your point...? Emotions got pretty hot. People see things differently when they get hot... I usually give O_P the benefit of the doubt... And do here... But... calling Smith a sexual predator, and posting LDS Temple videos was no-go in the not too distant past... Folks who *honestly* wanted two-way discussions would keep the hardcore antagonists in line... I guess folks got hot when they realized that wasn't going to be the case here... LOL Delete all you want Old Painless never said what he was accused of saying You can delete it away it doesn't change the quote. I quoted it. Emotions get hot, Deny away.. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 2:03:08 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, he did... Prove you wrong if I can? You're nothing and no one, you weren't a part of the conversation other than your appearance now to belly in and act like some wanna be tough guy. I guess I should be scared, you might get all mental and pound on your Enter key until your keyboard breaks, in that event, go get me, tiger! In the mean time, I'll let you and your crew of fellow sophisticates in on a tender morsel, the Atheists are having a field day with this thread... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Old Painless never cussed you out or told you to go fuck yourself. That is a lie, prove me wrong if you can. Yeah, he did... Prove you wrong if I can? You're nothing and no one, you weren't a part of the conversation other than your appearance now to belly in and act like some wanna be tough guy. I guess I should be scared, you might get all mental and pound on your Enter key until your keyboard breaks, in that event, go get me, tiger! In the mean time, I'll let you and your crew of fellow sophisticates in on a tender morsel, the Atheists are having a field day with this thread... Liar, delete the quote. Typical |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 2:07:02 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: May be right, wow Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I never "cussed you out". You are a liar. You may be right... But his emotions got pretty hot when he realized you were going to support your boy for posting the LDS Temple videos, and claiming that Smith was a sexual predator... You supporting your boy, and sacrificing the sites long-trusted COC to hang LDS members out to dry really surprised a lot of us... We used to be able to count on your gentlemanliness... And when that didn't work... We used to be able to look to the COC when an antagonist got out of line... Now? Emotions are hot in a few people?-? I guess. Me? I served a mission, I know anti-LDS folks will sacrifice their ethics, sacrifice their reputation... just for the chance to take a cheap-shot at folks of faith who honor Christ... May be right, wow No wows from you needed, it happened, and was this your whole reason for your appearance here, kind of like drunk driving into a circus tent... So, we've gone from the "Fundies" loving us, to trying to save us from ourselves, to trying to save the world from us, to calling us hateful crap, to posting videos of our temple endowments that we hold sacred and then mocking it, to calling our church founder a predator, to telling us off, google cut-n-paste kung fu, to "My buddy didn't say no mean stuff to you, prove me wrong you meanie, if you can, while i wave my fist in the insubstantial air and show you my bass assness". That's capital! You guys should be PREACHERS! Yup! Funny how that works, when your kind has no where to move and we don't budge, you go from we love you and god bless you to you dog gone bad Mormons you! We're going to make fun of your whole religion, get mad, wave our fists, pound on our keyboards.. Boy, you sure showed us a thing or two! |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 2:09:33 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL Delete all you want Old Painless never said what he was accused of saying You can delete it away it doesn't change the quote. I quoted it. Emotions get hot, Deny away.. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: May be right, wow What is your point...? Emotions got pretty hot. People see things differently when they get hot... I usually give O_P the benefit of the doubt... And do here... But... calling Smith a sexual predator, and posting LDS Temple videos was no-go in the not too distant past... Folks who *honestly* wanted two-way discussions would keep the hardcore antagonists in line... I guess folks got hot when they realized that wasn't going to be the case here... LOL Delete all you want Old Painless never said what he was accused of saying You can delete it away it doesn't change the quote. I quoted it. Emotions get hot, Deny away.. You don't like trimming quote trees? Anyone who knows anything knows to scroll up a few posts to see what was said, so now you're inferring deception through deletion, don't give yourself a headache overthinking this, there's no secret meaning in trimming a quote tree down to size to address you. |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 2:13:38 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Liar, delete the quote. Typical Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Old Painless never cussed you out or told you to go fuck yourself. That is a lie, prove me wrong if you can. Yeah, he did... Prove you wrong if I can? You're nothing and no one, you weren't a part of the conversation other than your appearance now to belly in and act like some wanna be tough guy. I guess I should be scared, you might get all mental and pound on your Enter key until your keyboard breaks, in that event, go get me, tiger! In the mean time, I'll let you and your crew of fellow sophisticates in on a tender morsel, the Atheists are having a field day with this thread... Liar, delete the quote. Typical Now you're calling me names too? Wow, you're even more priceless than the last so called "christian" that floundered on in slinging crap. As I said, anyone with half a brain, even you, can scroll up a few posts to read the content of the whole tree. Quote tree trimming is so I can specifically address YOU, side swiping me, well, it cheapens you for starters. Is that all you've got? I thought you wanted to discuss what happens to the people who died but never heard of the so called "correct God"? Or did you just want to fight with me? If so, hammer that keyboard some more! |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 2:17:16 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is your point...? Emotions got pretty hot. People see things differently when they get hot... I usually give O_P the benefit of the doubt... And do here... But... calling Smith a sexual predator, and posting LDS Temple videos was no-go in the not too distant past... Folks who *honestly* wanted two-way discussions would keep the hardcore antagonists in line... I guess folks got hot when they realized that wasn't going to be the case here... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: May be right, wow What is your point...? Emotions got pretty hot. People see things differently when they get hot... I usually give O_P the benefit of the doubt... And do here... But... calling Smith a sexual predator, and posting LDS Temple videos was no-go in the not too distant past... Folks who *honestly* wanted two-way discussions would keep the hardcore antagonists in line... I guess folks got hot when they realized that wasn't going to be the case here... Nah, they came in with "We love you, but if you don't believe as we do, you're all wrong and going to hell, and while we're at it, here's videos of your temple ordinances, we're going to call your church founder a predator, you guys the terrible husbands of multiple wives and 14 year old daughters, AND then we're going to get really mad and show you Christian love! You, you, you mean ol' Mormons, you! Next thing they'll do is accuse us of changing them into newts, but later saying they got better. ETA: Fixed typo, but Pokernut will reply that I deleted material facts and that will show the world how I am a evil mean ol' Mormon, I make delicious apples spoil, baby girls grow mustaches, and eat devil's food cake because "Mormons are The Debil". |
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Posted: 8/3/2015 2:21:49 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now you're calling me names too? Wow, you're even more priceless than the last so called "christian" that floundered on in slinging crap. As I said, anyone with half a brain, even you, can scroll up a few posts to read the content of the whole tree. Quote tree trimming is so I can specifically address YOU, side swiping me, well, it cheapens you for starters. Is that all you've got?
I thought you wanted to discuss what happens to the people who died but never heard of the so called "correct God"? Or did you just want to fight with me? If so, hammer that keyboard some more! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Old Painless never cussed you out or told you to go fuck yourself. That is a lie, prove me wrong if you can. Yeah, he did... Prove you wrong if I can? You're nothing and no one, you weren't a part of the conversation other than your appearance now to belly in and act like some wanna be tough guy. I guess I should be scared, you might get all mental and pound on your Enter key until your keyboard breaks, in that event, go get me, tiger! In the mean time, I'll let you and your crew of fellow sophisticates in on a tender morsel, the Atheists are having a field day with this thread... Liar, delete the quote. Typical Now you're calling me names too? Wow, you're even more priceless than the last so called "christian" that floundered on in slinging crap. As I said, anyone with half a brain, even you, can scroll up a few posts to read the content of the whole tree. Quote tree trimming is so I can specifically address YOU, side swiping me, well, it cheapens you for starters. Is that all you've got?
I thought you wanted to discuss what happens to the people who died but never heard of the so called "correct God"? Or did you just want to fight with me? If so, hammer that keyboard some more! Go ahead and drop the link to Old Painless cussing you out or telling you to go fuck your self. Remember according to your link, he did, I underlined your words incase you forgot them. |
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