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Posted: 6/25/2015 1:44:12 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmmmm, become worm food or be transported to the place the Christian Bible tells us we should go, where we will gaze upon the Lord with adulation forever and ever, and ever, and ever. I'll take the worm food. If there was a happy hunting ground? Sign me up for that. Also not what the Bible says Though your reply does bring to mind CS Lewis' theory on "hell" The doors of Hell are locked on the inside. I do not mean that the ghosts may not wish to come out of Hell, in the vague fashion wherein an envious man 'wishes' to be happy: but they certainly do not will even the first preliminary stages of that self-abandonment through which alone the soul can reach any good. They enjoy forever the horrible freedom they have demanded, and are therefore self-enslaved: just as the blessed, forever submitting to obedience, become through all eternity more and more free." |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 1:55:25 PM EDT
[#2]
These days? Hell. I don't think I will notice the difference.
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Posted: 6/25/2015 2:28:04 PM EDT
[#3]
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NRA2; Thank you. I am off to go read what you had referenced. Before doing so - I have an ignorant question; sorry if it seems crude. The reoccurring concept of being saved vs. not; can it ever be too late to earn that salvation? In the reading that I have done (limited), it seems like one can be forgiven if they forgive themselves, and love everything and everyone around them (I know I am extremely paraphrasing here, I apologize). With that being said, it seems like it is never too late? Do you believe there is some cut off point where you cannot redeem from your sins? Thanks, Mike Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:This. The dead know not anything. It is like a dreamless sleep. One doesn't know they died until they wake at the resurrection. If somebody died three thousand years ago or last week, you are not aware of time passing. That is what was really meant when the Bible says, he who is absent from the body is with God. It will seem like a split second before Jesus comes back. If one went to heaven or hell immediately after death, what would be the point of the second coming? I know others will bring up their version but punctuation was not inspired. 
Mike, one of my favorite scriptures is 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 verses 13-18. It lays out exactly what will happen to those who are "saved" both the dead ones and the ones alive at the second coming. There are plenty of scriptures about what happens to those who are not saved, but why bother with that when the gift of eternal life is free for the taking...... NRA2; Thank you. I am off to go read what you had referenced. Before doing so - I have an ignorant question; sorry if it seems crude. The reoccurring concept of being saved vs. not; can it ever be too late to earn that salvation? In the reading that I have done (limited), it seems like one can be forgiven if they forgive themselves, and love everything and everyone around them (I know I am extremely paraphrasing here, I apologize). With that being said, it seems like it is never too late? Do you believe there is some cut off point where you cannot redeem from your sins? Thanks, Mike remember we do not and can not "earn" our salvation -- that is a free gift from God that we must choose to accept as far as being too late, there were two thieves crucified with jesus one cursed him one repented and asked Jesus to remember him Jesus replied, today you will be with me in paradise no matter what you've done or how you've lived it's never too late to accept the gift of God I'll be praying for you |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 4:34:20 PM EDT
[#4]
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Why, exactly? I don't find it depressing at all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Every study done of human brain function and consciousness has shown that our personality, the thing that makes you "you," is very very dependent on biological processes that go on in your body. Physical changes can cause personality changes. A brain injury can totally change who you are and how you act. Some people who've had brain injuries suddenly have new favorite colors and new tastes in clothes and friends and lovers, or no longer have any impulse control and give in to every bit of temptation. We also can see that our personality changes as we mature and we are no longer very similar to the person we were when we were children or, for those who are older, when we were in our 20s or 30s. So that tells me that the thing that makes you the person you are is very intimately tied to your brain and the chemical processes that affect it. This leads to the inevitable question: how could that combination of physical, chemical reactions be somehow "duplicated" in some theoretical incorporeal "soul" that goes somewhere to live forever after your physical body dies? Even if you could somehow "upload" your memories into some sort of ectoplasmic copy of your brain, it would not be you, it would be a copy of you. You would still be dead and God would be punishing or rewarding a Xerox. This leads me to disbelieve in any sort of afterlife whatsoever. You die and that's it. It also leads me to the conclusion that the idea we have of a disembodied "self" is really an illusion. There's no little homunculus behind our eyes that sees the world through the lens of our body...we ARE our body. What we consider our "self" is just the biological software running on our biological hardware. Well that's depressing Why, exactly? I don't find it depressing at all. Your logic is sound and I'm not smart enough to argue with it. Your theory makes more sense than anybody else's in this thread. I just think it would be sad if that is all there is to the universe, that the nature of existence was that straightforward. I understand that my response is based on emotion and not logic. The atoms and energy that make up 'me' were present at the dawn of time and will exist in some form at the end. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Beyond that, I have no idea what goes on after something cuts the strings to my personal marionette 
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Posted: 6/25/2015 4:41:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your logic is sound and I'm not smart enough to argue with it. Your theory makes more sense than anybody else's in this thread. I just think it would be sad if that is all there is to the universe, that the nature of existence was that straightforward. I understand that my response is based on emotion and not logic. The atoms and energy that make up 'me' were present at the dawn of time and will exist in some form at the end. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Beyond that, I have no idea what goes on after something cuts the strings to my personal marionette
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Every study done of human brain function and consciousness has shown that our personality, the thing that makes you "you," is very very dependent on biological processes that go on in your body. Physical changes can cause personality changes. A brain injury can totally change who you are and how you act. Some people who've had brain injuries suddenly have new favorite colors and new tastes in clothes and friends and lovers, or no longer have any impulse control and give in to every bit of temptation. We also can see that our personality changes as we mature and we are no longer very similar to the person we were when we were children or, for those who are older, when we were in our 20s or 30s. So that tells me that the thing that makes you the person you are is very intimately tied to your brain and the chemical processes that affect it. This leads to the inevitable question: how could that combination of physical, chemical reactions be somehow "duplicated" in some theoretical incorporeal "soul" that goes somewhere to live forever after your physical body dies? Even if you could somehow "upload" your memories into some sort of ectoplasmic copy of your brain, it would not be you, it would be a copy of you. You would still be dead and God would be punishing or rewarding a Xerox. This leads me to disbelieve in any sort of afterlife whatsoever. You die and that's it. It also leads me to the conclusion that the idea we have of a disembodied "self" is really an illusion. There's no little homunculus behind our eyes that sees the world through the lens of our body...we ARE our body. What we consider our "self" is just the biological software running on our biological hardware. Well that's depressing Why, exactly? I don't find it depressing at all. Your logic is sound and I'm not smart enough to argue with it. Your theory makes more sense than anybody else's in this thread. I just think it would be sad if that is all there is to the universe, that the nature of existence was that straightforward. I understand that my response is based on emotion and not logic. The atoms and energy that make up 'me' were present at the dawn of time and will exist in some form at the end. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Beyond that, I have no idea what goes on after something cuts the strings to my personal marionette
Your atoms were not around at the dawn of time. Your atoms other than the H that is in you, came from a star which went super nova. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 4:57:07 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your logic is sound and I'm not smart enough to argue with it. Your theory makes more sense than anybody else's in this thread. I just think it would be sad if that is all there is to the universe, that the nature of existence was that straightforward. I understand that my response is based on emotion and not logic. The thing is, I don't disbelieve in the possibility of a Creator, or the idea that there is a purpose to our universe. I think it's very possible that there is an intelligence behind the existence of this universe and that it has an intent that life exist here. I simply don't see any evidence that the continuation of our consciousness after death is a necessary part of that, even if the existence of our lives is. Let's look at it this way: say this universe is part of an experiment by a being so powerful that it makes us look like bacteria by comparison. This being has decided that it's a big, lonely multiverse and the best thing to do would be to make a universe designed to produce life, and this being wants to create that universe and then sit back and let life unfold according to its own free will. It wants to observe and learn from us, which means we are part of a bigger plan but not necessarily on an individual level. That's all just a mental exercise in what-if, of course...no proof either way. I was just suggesting something that would allow a greater purpose without supposing an eternal soul. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 5:00:37 PM EDT
[#7]
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Poll fail for lack of "I don't know and neither does anyone else." option. Was going to post this: How the fuck am I supposed to know? |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 5:01:48 PM EDT
[#8]
It's like what happens when someone gets knocked out and comes to, they have zero perception of lost time or anything. I think that's where we "go", to a place without consciousness of time or self.
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Posted: 6/25/2015 5:01:57 PM EDT
[#9]
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Your atoms were not around at the dawn of time. Your atoms other than the H that is in you, came from a star which went super nova. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Every study done of human brain function and consciousness has shown that our personality, the thing that makes you "you," is very very dependent on biological processes that go on in your body. Physical changes can cause personality changes. A brain injury can totally change who you are and how you act. Some people who've had brain injuries suddenly have new favorite colors and new tastes in clothes and friends and lovers, or no longer have any impulse control and give in to every bit of temptation. We also can see that our personality changes as we mature and we are no longer very similar to the person we were when we were children or, for those who are older, when we were in our 20s or 30s. So that tells me that the thing that makes you the person you are is very intimately tied to your brain and the chemical processes that affect it. This leads to the inevitable question: how could that combination of physical, chemical reactions be somehow "duplicated" in some theoretical incorporeal "soul" that goes somewhere to live forever after your physical body dies? Even if you could somehow "upload" your memories into some sort of ectoplasmic copy of your brain, it would not be you, it would be a copy of you. You would still be dead and God would be punishing or rewarding a Xerox. This leads me to disbelieve in any sort of afterlife whatsoever. You die and that's it. It also leads me to the conclusion that the idea we have of a disembodied "self" is really an illusion. There's no little homunculus behind our eyes that sees the world through the lens of our body...we ARE our body. What we consider our "self" is just the biological software running on our biological hardware. Well that's depressing Why, exactly? I don't find it depressing at all. Your logic is sound and I'm not smart enough to argue with it. Your theory makes more sense than anybody else's in this thread. I just think it would be sad if that is all there is to the universe, that the nature of existence was that straightforward. I understand that my response is based on emotion and not logic. The atoms and energy that make up 'me' were present at the dawn of time and will exist in some form at the end. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Beyond that, I have no idea what goes on after something cuts the strings to my personal marionette
Your atoms were not around at the dawn of time. Your atoms other than the H that is in you, came from a star which went super nova. And the star I came from, it's atoms/matter/energy came from where? If you subscribe to the big bang theory, doesn't everything and everyone come from that, by definition? Aren't we just the Universe experiencing itself? |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 5:03:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Soiled underwear.
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Posted: 6/25/2015 5:04:14 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: But none of the options are correct. When you die, you go to either paradise (abraham's bosom), or hell (torture in the earth's center) to await final judgment. People in hell think it's bad, but it gets worse. Afterwards, the resurrection, those in paradise go on to the Bema Seat Judgment of Christ, where Christ will reward them for their works on earth. Note that salvation itself is not based on works, these people are already saved. Some rewards mentioned are specific crowns, which they will in turn throw at Christ's feet. Those in hell stand before the Great White Throne then get thrown into the lake of fire to begin an absolute eternity of never ending TORTURE, unimaginable. Atheists will wish they had oblivion, or any relief from the pain  "if you give your earthly treasures to our religion, you'll be rewarded in paradise!"  |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 5:06:21 PM EDT
[#12]
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"if you give your earthly treasures to our religion, you'll be rewarded in paradise!"
That would truly be a terrible religion. Fortunately, Christianity doesn't believe that has anything to do with the Salvation of our eternal soul. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 5:58:05 PM EDT
[#13]
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remember we do not and can not "earn" our salvation -- that is a free gift from God that we must choose to accept as far as being too late, there were two thieves crucified with jesus one cursed him one repented and asked Jesus to remember him Jesus replied, today you will be with me in paradise no matter what you've done or how you've lived it's never too late to accept the gift of God I'll be praying for you Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:This. The dead know not anything. It is like a dreamless sleep. One doesn't know they died until they wake at the resurrection. If somebody died three thousand years ago or last week, you are not aware of time passing. That is what was really meant when the Bible says, he who is absent from the body is with God. It will seem like a split second before Jesus comes back. If one went to heaven or hell immediately after death, what would be the point of the second coming? I know others will bring up their version but punctuation was not inspired.
Mike, one of my favorite scriptures is 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 verses 13-18. It lays out exactly what will happen to those who are "saved" both the dead ones and the ones alive at the second coming. There are plenty of scriptures about what happens to those who are not saved, but why bother with that when the gift of eternal life is free for the taking...... NRA2; Thank you. I am off to go read what you had referenced. Before doing so - I have an ignorant question; sorry if it seems crude. The reoccurring concept of being saved vs. not; can it ever be too late to earn that salvation? In the reading that I have done (limited), it seems like one can be forgiven if they forgive themselves, and love everything and everyone around them (I know I am extremely paraphrasing here, I apologize). With that being said, it seems like it is never too late? Do you believe there is some cut off point where you cannot redeem from your sins? Thanks, Mike remember we do not and can not "earn" our salvation -- that is a free gift from God that we must choose to accept as far as being too late, there were two thieves crucified with jesus one cursed him one repented and asked Jesus to remember him Jesus replied, today you will be with me in paradise no matter what you've done or how you've lived it's never too late to accept the gift of God I'll be praying for you So I can murder and rape all I want, but if I ask for be forgiven then it's really no big deal? |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 7:11:27 PM EDT
[#14]
No. God knows whether you are sincere or not. ymmv
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Posted: 6/25/2015 7:16:24 PM EDT
[#15]
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"if you give your earthly treasures to our religion, you'll be rewarded in paradise!"
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But none of the options are correct. When you die, you go to either paradise (abraham's bosom), or hell (torture in the earth's center) to await final judgment. People in hell think it's bad, but it gets worse. Afterwards, the resurrection, those in paradise go on to the Bema Seat Judgment of Christ, where Christ will reward them for their works on earth. Note that salvation itself is not based on works, these people are already saved. Some rewards mentioned are specific crowns, which they will in turn throw at Christ's feet. Those in hell stand before the Great White Throne then get thrown into the lake of fire to begin an absolute eternity of never ending TORTURE, unimaginable. Atheists will wish they had oblivion, or any relief from the pain "if you give your earthly treasures to our religion, you'll be rewarded in paradise!"
God does not need your money, why would one who could speak the entire universe into existence the Alpha & Omega and who uses the earth as his footstool have need of your money? God wants YOU. And so he expects you to contribute to the local church out of your own resources, including your Time, Money, Talent, anything YOU have been blessed with.It's never as simplistic as nonbelievers try to make it. Either you are going to willfully use your time on earth to die to your own sinful nature/flesh and glorify God though everything, or your eternity will be a testament to what happens to God's enemies and will glorify him through your suffering. There's no magic little incantation on a tract that you can say and make God leave you alone, and he does not care about money. He cares about what goes on inside your heart since you were created in HIS IMAGE. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 7:56:29 PM EDT
[#16]
Somebody's wrong.
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Posted: 6/25/2015 8:30:42 PM EDT
[#17]
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No. God knows whether you are sincere or not. ymmv What if I am though? Like someone that murders and rapes all sorts of stuff, and then while doing 87 consecutive life sentences they read the bible and sincerely ask for forgiveness? Does it suddenly become just fine and dandy, because it seems like things would get tarnished after the first few murders |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 8:41:02 PM EDT
[#18]
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What if I am though? Like someone that murders and rapes all sorts of stuff, and then while doing 87 consecutive life sentences they read the bible and sincerely ask for forgiveness? Does it suddenly become just fine and dandy, because it seems like things would get tarnished after the first few murders Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No. God knows whether you are sincere or not. ymmv What if I am though? Like someone that murders and rapes all sorts of stuff, and then while doing 87 consecutive life sentences they read the bible and sincerely ask for forgiveness? Does it suddenly become just fine and dandy, because it seems like things would get tarnished after the first few murders If they sincerely repent and accept Jesus as Savior, their sins are totally forgiven. However, they must still pay the legal penalty for their crimes, even life or capital punishment. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 8:52:14 PM EDT
[#19]
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If they sincerely repent and accept Jesus as Savior, their sins are totally forgiven. However, they must still pay the legal penalty for their crimes, even life or capital punishment. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No. God knows whether you are sincere or not. ymmv What if I am though? Like someone that murders and rapes all sorts of stuff, and then while doing 87 consecutive life sentences they read the bible and sincerely ask for forgiveness? Does it suddenly become just fine and dandy, because it seems like things would get tarnished after the first few murders If they sincerely repent and accept Jesus as Savior, their sins are totally forgiven. However, they must still pay the legal penalty for their crimes, even life or capital punishment. Did God require the founding fathers to accept their legal penalty under the British Crown? Would God require an american Gun Owner to accept the Legal Penalty for having 11 Foreign Parts? Why or why not? The Bible requires us to pay taxes in the new testament, and for Jews to accept the laws of Jewish Land, but that's about it. It acknowledges the devil as God of this world, so are you saying God would require Christians to accept punishment for violating the Devil's laws? |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 9:03:49 PM EDT
[#20]
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Fade to black The intricacies of this life/world and you think it's just ...... black.... .......................................highly doubtful |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 9:11:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Try reading your Bible instead of using it for a paperweight !
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Posted: 6/25/2015 9:18:09 PM EDT
[#22]
Don't know. Don't really care. I'll be dead.
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Posted: 6/25/2015 9:20:14 PM EDT
[#23]
Whichever other Immortal took our head, gets our Quickening.
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Posted: 6/25/2015 9:26:13 PM EDT
[#24]
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But none of the options are correct. When you die, you go to either paradise (abraham's bosom), or hell (torture in the earth's center) to await final judgment. People in hell think it's bad, but it gets worse. Afterwards, the resurrection, those in paradise go on to the Bema Seat Judgment of Christ, where Christ will reward them for their works on earth. Note that salvation itself is not based on works, these people are already saved. Some rewards mentioned are specific crowns, which they will in turn throw at Christ's feet. Those in hell stand before the Great White Throne then get thrown into the lake of fire to begin an absolute eternity of never ending TORTURE, unimaginable. Atheists will wish they had oblivion, or any relief from the pain Is this a scifi channel show plot? |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 9:31:31 PM EDT
[#25]
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The Bible teaches it, I believe it.
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You believe in election, right? The Bible teaches it, I believe it.
Could you quote me the scriptures, please? I'm not outright disagreeing with you about the existence of this in the bible...I would just like to see which passages you are supporting this with, and why or how you are interpreting them as evidence of election among Christians. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 9:34:30 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If they sincerely repent and accept Jesus as Savior, their sins are totally forgiven. However, they must still pay the legal penalty for their crimes, even life or capital punishment. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: No. God knows whether you are sincere or not. ymmv What if I am though? Like someone that murders and rapes all sorts of stuff, and then while doing 87 consecutive life sentences they read the bible and sincerely ask for forgiveness? Does it suddenly become just fine and dandy, because it seems like things would get tarnished after the first few murders If they sincerely repent and accept Jesus as Savior, their sins are totally forgiven. However, they must still pay the legal penalty for their crimes, even life or capital punishment. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 9:37:07 PM EDT
[#27]
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If they sincerely repent and accept Jesus as Savior, their sins are totally forgiven. However, they must still pay the legal penalty for their crimes, even life or capital punishment. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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No. God knows whether you are sincere or not. ymmv What if I am though? Like someone that murders and rapes all sorts of stuff, and then while doing 87 consecutive life sentences they read the bible and sincerely ask for forgiveness? Does it suddenly become just fine and dandy, because it seems like things would get tarnished after the first few murders If they sincerely repent and accept Jesus as Savior, their sins are totally forgiven. However, they must still pay the legal penalty for their crimes, even life or capital punishment. So what is the point of those commandments if it doesn't matter either way? |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 9:39:18 PM EDT
[#28]
We leave our body
I view it as we are not the body, the body is basically a machine we use. |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 9:42:11 PM EDT
[#29]
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We leave our body I view it as we are not the body, the body is basically a machine we use. 
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Posted: 6/25/2015 9:43:03 PM EDT
[#30]
what happens before you are born?
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Posted: 6/25/2015 9:50:36 PM EDT
[#31]
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what happens before you are born? Well, your mommy and daddy meet and fall in love, and when two people love each other very much... 
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Posted: 6/25/2015 9:51:02 PM EDT
[#32]
Dead means dead. Nothingness. Lack of consciousness. Sleep with no waking up or dreams.
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Posted: 6/25/2015 9:55:23 PM EDT
[#33]
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Well, your mommy and daddy meet and fall in love, and when two people love each other very much... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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what happens before you are born? Well, your mommy and daddy meet and fall in love, and when two people love each other very much... given those enlightening facts; you will return to seminal fluid, sperm, vaginal fluid, and an egg when you die
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Posted: 6/25/2015 10:15:18 PM EDT
[#34]
Within about the 1st hour you will shit and piss yourself. It's called algor mortis.
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Posted: 6/25/2015 10:22:31 PM EDT
[#35]
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Could you quote me the scriptures, please? I'm not outright disagreeing with you about the existence of this in the bible...I would just like to see which passages you are supporting this with, and why or how you are interpreting them as evidence of election among Christians. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You believe in election, right? The Bible teaches it, I believe it.
Could you quote me the scriptures, please? I'm not outright disagreeing with you about the existence of this in the bible...I would just like to see which passages you are supporting this with, and why or how you are interpreting them as evidence of election among Christians. Go to this site: https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?search=elect&version=KJV&searchtype=all&bookset=2 It is a short list of the scriptures where "elect" or "election" are mentioned in the NT. The Bible teaches it. What are we to do? |
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Posted: 6/25/2015 10:26:14 PM EDT
[#36]
You are reincarnated as a transgender liberal.
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Posted: 6/25/2015 10:37:46 PM EDT
[#37]
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It is a short list of the scriptures where "elect" or "election" are mentioned in the NT. The Bible teaches it. What are we to do? From your link: Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? Based on these verses in the scriptures, tell me what constitutes the "elect" as described in the gospels! Also, what does this mean in terms of the average believer? |
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Posted: 6/26/2015 9:16:42 AM EDT
[#38]
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So what is the point of those commandments if it doesn't matter either way? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No. God knows whether you are sincere or not. ymmv What if I am though? Like someone that murders and rapes all sorts of stuff, and then while doing 87 consecutive life sentences they read the bible and sincerely ask for forgiveness? Does it suddenly become just fine and dandy, because it seems like things would get tarnished after the first few murders If they sincerely repent and accept Jesus as Savior, their sins are totally forgiven. However, they must still pay the legal penalty for their crimes, even life or capital punishment. So what is the point of those commandments if it doesn't matter either way? The commandments were for the Israelites, pre-dating Christ. Christ made it clear that no one can keep that Law perfectly. The commandments that he clarified or amended or changed in some cases aren't requirements so much as instruction on how to continue in the walk toward being closer to God. The Bible does also state (through a parable) that those who lived sinful lives, at the end of the road, if they solemnly recognize at last that Christ is who He said He was, that they will be given the same "payment" as those who'd been believers and living accordingly all along. So the next reply will be "so I can do (insert sin) up until the end of my life, knowing i can just do all this and everything will be cool"? My thought there is that doing so would not be a real faith and surrender. It would be trying to cheat the system. |
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Posted: 6/26/2015 9:17:38 AM EDT
[#39]
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That would truly be a terrible religion. Fortunately, Christianity doesn't believe that has anything to do with the Salvation of our eternal soul. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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"if you give your earthly treasures to our religion, you'll be rewarded in paradise!"
That would truly be a terrible religion. Fortunately, Christianity doesn't believe that has anything to do with the Salvation of our eternal soul. Yep |
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Posted: 6/26/2015 10:29:36 AM EDT
[#40]
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From your link: Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? Based on these verses in the scriptures, tell me what constitutes the "elect" as described in the gospels! Also, what does this mean in terms of the average believer? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It is a short list of the scriptures where "elect" or "election" are mentioned in the NT. The Bible teaches it. What are we to do? From your link: Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. Luke 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? Based on these verses in the scriptures, tell me what constitutes the "elect" as described in the gospels! Also, what does this mean in terms of the average believer? Sorry for the slow response, I was asleep.
We can go to Strong's Concordance and look up the Greek word for elect: "1588. eklektos ek-lek-tos' from 1586; select; by implication, favorite:--chosen, elect." In those you mentioned, it simply means "the chosen or the selected". So, to answer your first question, that would be born again Christians, all of us. To the "average believer" it means "those of us that are Christians". An Armenian would look at that and say, "That means those that have decided to accept Jesus as Savior, and are now members of the 'elect'. " A Calvinist would look at that and say, "That means those that God has elected from before the foundation of the world." Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: And in Revelation, we see an example of the non-elect: Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him (the anti-Christ), whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 8:18:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Eternal oblivion, most likely. Permanent unconsciousness. That sounds so much more attractive than the life I've been given in the last 10 years, which is forecast to be the same, or more likely worse, in the next 10. |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 9:33:51 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And in Revelation, we see an example of the non-elect: Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him (the anti-Christ), whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Sorry for not responding sooner. I've been busy with work. Are you saying that all of these "non-elect" will be worshippers of the anti-Christ in the future? Could you tell me who or what exactly this anti-Christ will be...is it an unknown metaphorical personification, a systemic form of religion or set of beliefs, or is it an individual? If it's the later, what exactly would cause all of the "non-elect" to worship an individual? Free will being what it is, surely there would be some who were neither Christians nor worshipers of the "anti-Christ." |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 9:52:56 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sorry for not responding sooner. I've been busy with work. Are you saying that all of these "non-elect" will be worshippers of the anti-Christ in the future? Could you tell me who or what exactly this anti-Christ will be...is it an unknown metaphorical personification, a systemic form of religion or set of beliefs, or is it an individual? If it's the later, what exactly would cause all of the "non-elect" to worship an individual? Free will being what it is, surely there would be some who were neither Christians nor worshipers of the "anti-Christ." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And in Revelation, we see an example of the non-elect: Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him (the anti-Christ), whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Sorry for not responding sooner. I've been busy with work. Are you saying that all of these "non-elect" will be worshippers of the anti-Christ in the future? Could you tell me who or what exactly this anti-Christ will be...is it an unknown metaphorical personification, a systemic form of religion or set of beliefs, or is it an individual? If it's the later, what exactly would cause all of the "non-elect" to worship an individual? Free will being what it is, surely there would be some who were neither Christians nor worshipers of the "anti-Christ." You and I seem to be busy guys.
I am a Calvinist. We believe that the non-elect are known to God (He is Omniscient and knows everything). The anti-Christ is an individual according to the Bible. "Free will" is not what you and many others think it is. All men have free will to reject Christ, but only the elect have the ability to accept Him through Faith, which is a free gift from God, allowing them to accept Jesus through Grace. If you are interested, read more here: http://www.desiringgod.org/seminars/tulip-part-1#full-audio It is long and complicated, but so is this subject. Good luck.
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Posted: 7/5/2015 10:09:48 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You and I seem to be busy guys.
I am a Calvinist. We believe that the non-elect are known to God (He is Omniscient and knows everything). The anti-Christ is an individual according to the Bible. "Free will" is not what you and many others think it is. All men have free will to reject Christ, but only the elect have the ability to accept Him through Faith, which is a free gift from God, allowing them to accept Jesus through Grace. If you are interested, read more here: http://www.desiringgod.org/seminars/tulip-part-1#full-audio It is long and complicated, but so is this subject. Good luck.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
And in Revelation, we see an example of the non-elect: Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him (the anti-Christ), whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Sorry for not responding sooner. I've been busy with work. Are you saying that all of these "non-elect" will be worshippers of the anti-Christ in the future? Could you tell me who or what exactly this anti-Christ will be...is it an unknown metaphorical personification, a systemic form of religion or set of beliefs, or is it an individual? If it's the later, what exactly would cause all of the "non-elect" to worship an individual? Free will being what it is, surely there would be some who were neither Christians nor worshipers of the "anti-Christ." You and I seem to be busy guys.
I am a Calvinist. We believe that the non-elect are known to God (He is Omniscient and knows everything). The anti-Christ is an individual according to the Bible. "Free will" is not what you and many others think it is. All men have free will to reject Christ, but only the elect have the ability to accept Him through Faith, which is a free gift from God, allowing them to accept Jesus through Grace. If you are interested, read more here: http://www.desiringgod.org/seminars/tulip-part-1#full-audio It is long and complicated, but so is this subject. Good luck.
To quote Keanu Reeves, whoa. Even when I was a believer, I didn't believe that. In fact, my father (who was a Baptist preacher and ran a Bible college in PA) wrote a whole book denouncing TULIPs, which was the acronym he used to describe 5-point Calvinists. |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 10:13:58 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You and I seem to be busy guys.
I am a Calvinist. We believe that the non-elect are known to God (He is Omniscient and knows everything). The anti-Christ is an individual according to the Bible. "Free will" is not what you and many others think it is. All men have free will to reject Christ, but only the elect have the ability to accept Him through Faith, which is a free gift from God, allowing them to accept Jesus through Grace. If you are interested, read more here: http://www.desiringgod.org/seminars/tulip-part-1#full-audio It is long and complicated, but so is this subject. Good luck.
I guess we are...
I'm too tired too ask you about how the concept of "only the elect [having] the ability to accept [Christ]" works, or about why some people are ultimately fated for eternal damnation. However, please tell be exactly how this anti-Christ is going to be able to accomplish the feat of convincing the entire population of our planet to worship him/it/she/whatever, when human belief systems vary so widely among our species? I cannot see a reality where every single individual is willing to worship a single person... |
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Posted: 7/5/2015 10:14:23 PM EDT
[#46]
"Endless are the arguments of mages."
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Posted: 7/6/2015 7:35:46 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryYour atoms were not around at the dawn of time. Your atoms other than the H that is in you, came from a star which went super nova. Quote HistoryYour atoms were not around at the dawn of time. Your atoms other than the H that is in you, came from a star which went super nova. And the star I came from, it's atoms/matter/energy came from where? If you subscribe to the big bang theory, doesn't everything and everyone come from that, by definition? Aren't we just the Universe experiencing itself? Yep, BB and all. Just because we have no theory for before the big bang, YET, does not mean that "god" did it. People who subscribe to the current crop of Abrahamic faiths wish to ascribe their god did it when we have figured out that most of what is in those texts is wrong. Like I stated before, believe in a god or gods all you want, but Abrahamic religions are horrible at the root. The only element that came out of the BB was H, others are formed in stars. (Some physicists think there was a tiny bit of He also but that is debated). |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 8:33:32 AM EDT
[#48]
Unfortunately true in some cases.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Family starts fighting over who gets what. |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 8:51:29 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You go to the same place you were before you were born. Indiana? Fuck, my mom was pregnant in Ft. Wayne.  |
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Posted: 7/6/2015 9:37:05 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To quote Keanu Reeves, whoa. Even when I was a believer, I didn't believe that. In fact, my father (who was a Baptist preacher and ran a Bible college in PA) wrote a whole book denouncing TULIPs, which was the acronym he used to describe 5-point Calvinists. To quote Charles Spurgeon, " I am not a Calvinist because of Calvin, but because that theology is taught throughout the entire Bible."
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