You would need to have some pretty friggin' loud pipes to be louder than wind at speed. On the few bikes I've ridden with loud exhausts, none were louder than wind when you got up to reasonable speeds (but I also haven't ridden anything with true straight pipes, just louder slip-ons).

Lots of people really underestimate how loud wind really is - it is literally deafening.



The real point is that if loud exhausts have any true effect, the effect is exceedingly small - as I said in my first reply, statistically insignificant.
Why invest all of the time and money to buy and install a new exhaust system, which of course requires completely retuning the bike (and may end up running significantly worse for the intended use, mind you), for what amounts to not even a blip on the radar of rider safety?

They hatus because they anus.



 

You haven't ridden my bike lol.  But you are right, wind is fucking loud at 70 mph.

 

The thing is you've got it backwards, I bought a new exhaust system because it makes way more power and it is way lighter, and I also like the sound.  Tuning is a given when modifying and engine, and many vehicles factory calibration can be improved upon.


The blip on the radar of rider safety is a bonus

Gay.

I absolutely love loud pipes on a Harley. I have a Fatboy with Rinehart Racing 2 into 2 pipes that were loud but not loud enough for my liking so I pulled the baffles and replaced them with Big City Thunder Monster baffles which are louder with a deeper tone that sound awesome. I didn't do it for anyone else because I couldn't care less what anyone else thinks, I did it because I like it.

I don't care if it annoys you sitting at a red light next to me, I don't care if it wakes your child up in the middle of the night and you spend 2 hours rocking him back to sleep, I don't care if it sets off your car alarm. All those things are what I call "your problem".

I'm also the one blipping my throttle while sitting at the red light. Why you ask? Because the little kid sitting in the back of the Prius next to me thinks it's bad ass and grins from ear to ear when I look over at him and do it. The only down side is I kinda feel sorry for the kid because I know that poor little bastard is gonna have to listen to his metrosexual father bitch and whine all the way home about the big bad biker's loud exhaust while pissing in his pleated khaki pants and almost spilling his Caramel Ribbon Crunch Crème Frappuccino because he can't wait to get home and log onto arfcom to tell his buddies how some scary biker dared to attack his sensitive feelings with such deplorable micro aggression.

But I don't mind, people can bitch and cry big ole crocodile tears all they want to online because we all know that pansy ass metrosexual will sit quietly in his Prius and stew in his hatred for me but never in a million years would he roll down his window and have the balls to say a damn thing to me about it. Why wouldn't he you ask? Because he and I both know that if he were to roll that window down and mouth off to me about my loud exhaust, my size 14 Harley boot would kick that jiffy stand down and I'd walk over to his Prius, snatch those "Where's Waldo" hipster black horned rimmed glasses off his face and stomp them under my heal as I drag him out through the window by his collar and commence beating the plaid off his Brooks Brothers Polo shirt with my skid lid. Of course his wife won't do anything either because she's sitting in the passenger seat smiling with her panties so wet you could drown a puppy in them from seeing what a real man looks like and his kid is in the back seat giving me a thumbs up because his sissy father would rather look at tranny threads on arfcom than teach the kid how to be a man and throw a football.

Oh yeah, as far as what I wear when I ride, I wear boots or tennis shoes, jeans, short sleeve t-shirt and a skid lid because I'm not a scared little pussy. You can wear the 20 lb knee high boots with reinforced steel, a 30 lb leather jumpsuit with Kevlar knee and elbow pads, spinal brace, kidney protection and shoulder pads with your full face helmet but honestly you just look like a giant black dildo. If you're not a dominatrix in a porn video or cosplaying Darth Vader at a Comic Con, you just look ridiculous.

People get killed in car wrecks all the time and they have a steel cage wrapped around them. When it's your time to go, it's just your time. Sure that 50 lbs of riding gear will help with a little road rash if you slide but it wont help a damn bit when that MAC truck plows into the side of you and crushes you into the ass end of a Ford F250.

I also don't wear a life preserver, life vest and water wings when I dive into a pool and people drown all the time but I'm just edgy and cool like that.

As a long time Harley owner I must stand in agreement. a little louder than stock is cool but when I can hear you a half a mile down the road with my windows up something is clearly wrong with you.

Nope. Annoying and faggotry.

I have heard a more interesting version , loud pipes get cigarette butts flipped out the window.



[

.

... tossed cigarettes were determined to be the number one cause of range fires
in  the Southwest the last ten years



So, "Loud Pipes Cause Forest Fires"







 

Never thought of it that way. Hmmm, ok, ban loud pipes.  

Only quite pipes can prevent forest fires.

I've seen some of those posts you're talking about and agree they are over the line.  

I've heard bikes of all makes blip the throttle a couple of times, but never to the extent that you crybabies make it out to be. Rev, reeev, reevvving? Nope. I've spent the last two weeks working on Washington Ave in Downtown Minneapolis, a major thoroughfare. I've heard all manner of motorcycles by ALL the major manufacturers with aftermarket exhaust, including a pair of KLR650s with punched out mufflers and even a moped without a muffler. Yea, a fuckin moped.

My post is no more full of fucktard than the posts by those who think you should MYOB or move if your neighbor trespasses, cranks their stereo, or has a dog that runs loose and shits on your property.


ETA: Once a week? OMG! What the fuck is this world coming too? For a whole 10 or 15 seconds too I bet.

Yeah - drivers who are half asleep.

I need my loud pipes to help save my life...while not wearing a helmet.

Yeah...that makes sense.  

I never understood the desire for loud. I briefly had a different muffler/silencer/can/exhaust device on my Tiger. I did it purely for the size for an experiment with the panniers. Hated the noise. Went back to stock a couple weeks later.

I'd rather have quiet bike and riding skills to "save lives".  Riding skills work even when you're the only one there.

Ahhh, Harleys. I think they look great, but I don't understand why people make 'em so damn loud.

Back when I was machining engines, we called a super loud, super slow car a "Shakespeare". Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

My brother has a Shakespeare. Beautiful bike, loud as shit, slow as molasses.

Probably already been said multiple times, but...



Get outta my blind spot.

Saved. Off to Facebook.

Common sense, you say?

My current bike is a 1,100 cc Moto Guzzi adventure tourer. I run bright fork lights on my sliders also. Bouncing on every road irregularity they definitely help to be seen by those in front of you. So much so that I will never own a bike without them. I'm also running a Mistral crossover and a Supertrapp can with 13 disks. It's no where even close to as loud as a HD with open drag pipes. I like the sound of a Moto Guzzi big block twin. There is nothing else that sounds so sweet in motorcycle world to me. If it helps me get noticed by distracted drivers it is a side benefit.

Try driving anywhere within 50 miles of Milwaukee during the summer.  Guys around here do it all the time.

poll is dumb. i dont care if they save lives or not all my shit is loud. bikes, cars quads

I just love how you can hear them a mile away while youre laying in your bed trying to go to sleep and yet if they actually had to push them for speed, they're weaker than fuck.

If I can hear you a mile away you better have some serious speed otherwise its just well, gay.
Its american rice to me. Fartcans attached to weak ass engines.

 
I have to say- What the fuck is wrong with us?  I'm relatively new to the motorcycle world (well, I guess I have to say "biker world" cause I have a Harley) and I honestly can't believe the number of self proclaimed "motorcyclists" that wish harm on other "motorcyclists".  The guy on the BMW that hopes the guy with the loud Harley splats himself into a bridge abutment.  The guy on the loud Harley that hopes the guy on a Ninja gets smeared across the pavement by a garbage truck.  It's sad.  They're all out there on 2 wheels doing something they presumably enjoy.  I assume that they can conclude the other guy is doing the same, but they wish him dead.  What the fuck is that?


In a way, it's worse than the soccer mom that wants the shooting range closed down, because she doesn't see the enjoyment in shooting and doesn't understand it.


It's worse than the fudd that wants my AR banned, because at least he doesn't publicly proclaim that he wants me dead for having a different gun than him.


Why?  What the fuck is wrong with us?

I have to say that I *am* surprised at the animosity throughout this thread!

I started it after experiencing yet another motorcycle with obnoxious exhaust.  For the record I was passing him and noted that once I pulled up level and in front of him the exhaust was notably muted.  Of course the Loud Pipes Save Lives T-shirt (Ok, honestly I don't remember exactly what he wore with this slogan) caused me to laugh.


For the record, IMO:  Loud pipes 'cuz you want them are one thing, just don't pretend it's for safety.

I'm SO glad someone brought up sirens on emergency vehicles.  While no one has done a study on loud pipes that I know of  plenty of them exist about sirens. Note that sirens are a hell of a lot louder than pipes.  So much so that  hearing loss in EM personnel is an occupational issue


(from NOED)
To be effective, a siren signal must compete with the masking noise generated by the road, car radios, and ventilation fans and must overcome modern sound insulation techniques. A US Department of Transportation (DOT) report (44, 47) showed that over a siren's effective frequency range, the average signal attenuation (through closed-windowed automobile bodies combined with typical masking noise) resulted in a maximal siren effective distance of siren penetration of only 8 to 12 m at urban intersections. Only modest improvement in the situation occurred at suburban intersections and straight-ahead highway conditions. These findings have been corroborated  and from the data a maximum safe entry speed of 10 mph (15 km/hr) for intersections is recommended . The Department of Transportation report concluded that sirens will never become an effective warning device.


The theoretical and practical aspects of visual warning methods in use on emergency vehicles, (John Killeen)
[Solomon (pp 58-9) describes the outcomes of audiometric testing between an emergency vehicle mounted siren (115 decibels) and passenger vehicle compartments at different distances and angles.

The road noise at 60 kph (with no air conditioner or radio noise), effectively cancels out the siren sound inside the vehicle until the ambulance is within 100 metres. If the radio volume in the car was low and the air conditioner switched on, the siren's audible distance decreased to 30 metres. When the radio volume was raised further (not to maximum), the internal sound level was 90 decibels against the lower penetrating siren intensity of 82 decibels. No siren sound was audible inside the car at a distance of 15 meters. The siren could be heard inside only at a distance of one or two meters separating the vehicles.

There was a marked reduction in the audible intensity of the siren between the two vehicles when the approach angle was altered by an intersection (90 degrees), this angled approach resulting in no siren sounds being audible within the passenger vehicle.

From the same article
The warning sound generated by a siren causes individuals to turn and search for the source. Life experience tells the person that an emergency vehicle is close by and they may need to take evasive action. The siren tones are usually non-directional: - the US National Safety Council newsletter3 (April 1997, p1) reporting that the USDoT study found that only 26% of the occupants of a closed car could determine from which direction the siren noise came from. The time taken to search for and locate the emergency vehicle after hearing the siren is a crucial factor in decreasing the reaction time.

What this tells you is that the car you are MOST concerned with, the one coming at you in intersections etc, has no chance of hearing you. The cars you are travelling with can only hear you at incredibly close distances.  Far too close when you account for response times from inattentive drivers.

From the article summary.

The visual conspicuity of the emergency vehicle is the key to a fast and reactive response by nearby drivers, pedestrians and onlookers.


There is a term in Emergency Services, "Sirencide".  Essentially, relying on the siren gets you killed.

If you think this is bad you should read the forums at ADVRider.com    

This place is mild in comparison.

I think the root issue is that all motorcyclists tend to be highly individualistic and aren't afraid of sharing their opinions.  We all tend to be a bit adversarial so that doesn't help either.

Individualistic, you say?

Yeah, I thought of that as I was typing it.  That's why I included "tend to be", as in "most of the time".

I agree that it's more the ideal than it is the reality.

 
Great info, will fall on pipe-induced-deaf-ears, I fear.






The only data that's really been done on loud verses quiet pipe was from a California study IIRC, which came from crash data, but it showed that bikes with modified exhausts were far more likely to be involved in accidents than non-modified.






There's more going on there than exhaust alone, but if there was one fucking ounce of truth to the "saves lives" myth, that wouldn't be possible.






This is all just people lying to themselves and outloud. And, in their hearts they know it's a lie. They're even a bit delusional about the sound itself, everyone but them thinks it sounds like ass. Why would you intentionally blare a sound that annoys the fuck out of everyone, with marginal or zero benefit, at additional cost and concern, against zoning and legality issues, when doing so might even harm your own community of riders?




 

It's hard to even fathom the mindset. I guess it's like people who just throw their trash out the car window. Like the guy above said, that's YOUR problem.

 
A better analogy might be that motorcyclists taken together is like a huge band full of nothing but lead guitarists.

That's a great way to express it.

Most of us outgrew this:



And this:

That was beautiful. Bravo.

It's nice how you conveniently forget the much more recent and thorough Nevada and Washington studies, IIRC, that also tracked the accident rate of bikes with modified exhausts vs. factory exhausts, plus, performed their own controlled experiments.  Those studies found there was a slight increase in driver awareness of louder motorcycles.

Interesting debate...

First, I own 2 bikes currently.  One is a fairly loud cruiser and the other a comparatively quiet sport touring bike.  (VTX1800F and VFR1200 respectively) I ride about 10,000 miles a year.

The sport touring bike is more fun to ride but I notice that on the cruiser I get much fewer close calls from people pulling out in front of me, turning in front of me, changing lanes into me etc. I also get a lot fewer deer deciding to play chicken with me.  So I do think loud pipes have the potential to save lives.  Honestly "save lives" is a pretty low bar to meet, we could probably find a situation where a kitchen spoon saved someone's life if we cared to look hard enough.

The amusing thing to me is we keep hearing how ineffective loud pipes are because of Doppler effect, wind noise, quieter than ever vehicles etc.  If that is all true, then tell me why my loud pipes you apparently cant hear bother you so much?  The fact that they bother you is THE POINT, if you are irritated by hearing them, then you know exactly where I am and that makes you a hell of a lot less likely to run over me.

Define "slight": 10%? 1%? .001%?

I'm also curious as to the type of "controlled experiments" performed and the control data that were used.

Loud pipes won't save your dumbass.

Wierd how you decide to quote only a small part of my post then add some sort of ridiculous rambling on with it.
First, if you actually read and comprehended the entirety of my post you might have seen that I actually said that you DO have a right to the loud pipes. Most of them aren't loud enough to disturb anybody enough that something should be done about it. But, like always, your rights will be taken when you start infringing on the rights of or endangering the lives of others. But why would you want to ride around attention whoring and making everybody pay attention to you? Sure it's your right, like it's your right to drive a Monte Carlo on 40's with a Marlboro cigarette wrap on it. Why would you if not so everybody looks at you?

Secondly, why is it that every time anybody says there should be a law on anything, they get called a liberal? Do you have to be a liberal to believe anything should be outlawed? I believe underage drinking prodtiution should be illegal. Guess I'm a liberal. I don't know if you're  aware of this but, our founding fathers actually made lots of laws. For all kinds of stuff. Because they saw a situation where a law was needed. So, to you, I guess they're all just leverage sacks of shit. Because they didn't just sit down and let anybody do what they wanted. It is a free country after all. Making laws would restrict that and lower the quality of life.

Lastly, who just runs over a bike rider and gets away with it? Yet again you are being overly dramatic trying to make it seem like you are a hated group. That motorcyclist are just being cut down all over the country and no one is being punished for it. When in reality they aren't. No one is just running over riders and getting away with it because the person they injured was in a bike. If they did, it was either a failure of our court system and its not nearly as common as you seem to wish if it was. Or the riders death was their own fault. Hard to imagine that you special snowflakes could be at fault for something but sometimes you are. Why would you make something like this up? Is it some overly dramatic plea while you justify annoying everybody else with your rights?

If there are two or more people saved, the answer to the op's question is still yes. If you answered no, you are claiming that in the history of riding less than 2 people have been saved.  With all the miles logged by motorcycles, that would be a rediculous.

For what it's worth, my brother's Harley sounds awesome. I also like cammed V8's and open headers. When cruising or idling, either one makes my teeth sweat. But there's a time and place to open it up. Be reasonable, have fun, and stop trying to convince yourself that being loud correlates to safety.

If your question would have been "do loud pipes save a lot of lives" the answer would be no, but that is not what you asked.

This man gets it.

I looked up SIREN studies.  I already know your pipes don't do shit. I've run over loud pipe guys before.

Apples to oranges.  Not mutually exclusive, your statement is illogical.  Should you turn your headlight off if you dont wear a helmet?

Most people go through their whole lives without running over a single motorcyclist and you've got multiples under your belt.

Maybe you should get some new glasses.

 
Slight increase of driver awareness, that's great. Does it translate into less accidents? Does awareness equal avoidance?


The awareness doesn't mean they will see you, and not turn left in front of you....it has to coincide with identification, then action, or it's totally fucking meaningless.


As a driver, I can be aware of a motorcycle by virtue of many cues, noise being one of them - but noise isn't directional in traffic settings (or seldom is), and vision is. When I see a bike, I know to avoid it. When I hear one, first I must identify the origins of that sound. Seeing the problem yet?


No, of course not.


Like I said, if the loud pipes dementia had any merit, it would show that riders who had loud pipes get in less accidents. Period. End of fucking story.


We see that with hi-viz, we see it with emergency vehicles who are painted certain colors, but we don't see it with cackling badass pipes.


Rationalize till you're fucking blue in the face.

lol

It was a joke.  Just like your "California study, IIRC" is a fabrication.

It's quite logical, actually.

Claiming that you need loud pipes to help save your life is pretty much defeated by not wearing a helmet.  Folks aren't going to take your safety concern seriously if you don't appear to care about your melon.