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Posted: 5/26/2015 8:59:17 PM EDT
[#1]
You people are fucking ridiculous. If the motorcyclist wants to lane split, then so be it. If you drive a car, check your fucking mirrors, which you should be doing anyway, and move the fuck over and let the cyclist by. It saves you time and I don't see how it could inconvenience you in any way. If some Darwin award winning douche wants to split at 100 mph, oh fucking well. He is going to end up as bumper juice, which he would've if splitting was legal or not. If you car drivers would just calm your Tits and not flip the fuck out because a biker can get somewhere faster, the whole idea would work. Hell, if you're jealous, get a goddamn bike yourself.
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Posted: 5/26/2015 9:10:32 PM EDT
[#2]
every driver I know hates lane splitters.
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Posted: 5/26/2015 9:13:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You people are fucking ridiculous. If the motorcyclist wants to lane split, then so be it. If you drive a car, check your fucking mirrors, which you should be doing anyway, and move the fuck over and let the cyclist by. It saves you time and I don't see how it could inconvenience you in any way. If some Darwin award winning douche wants to split at 100 mph, oh fucking well. He is going to end up as bumper juice, which he would've if splitting was legal or not. If you car drivers would just calm your Tits and not flip the fuck out because a biker can get somewhere faster, the whole idea would work. Hell, if you're jealous, get a goddamn bike yourself. It's easier to bitch and whine about something you don't like. You're fairly new here but allow me to clue you in, while the site may be aimed at a specific kind of rifle and you would think the types of folks that would buy/own one would understand the concept of freedom. There is a very vocal set of folks here that are full on authoritarian narcissists that will never understand the live and let live concept. I cringe at times when I read the comments made by them and no matter what evidence/logic you give them they will never ever bother to read/understand what is going on and in reality they are just like die hard democrats with their "feels ", The only difference I can find is that some of them own guns. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 9:14:00 PM EDT
[#4]
Waaaah! I'm a special snowflake. I shouldn't have to wait in traffic. I should be able to endanger everyone else by flying between vehicles until I reach my exit, then force my way back into traffic, causing the cars around me to slam on their brakes.
Traffic should come to halt for miles just for me. (Which is what happens in rush hour traffic. The motorcyclist doesn't break free of the pack, impeding no one, when traffic is bumper to bumper all the way to the suburbs.) It's dangerous and my bike will get hot because I chose to ride it during rush hour. It's not fair!  |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 9:19:55 PM EDT
[#5]
I think there is a middle ground here that I think the zealots on both sides are failing to miss, just like every other hot topic here on the site.
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Posted: 5/26/2015 9:20:51 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Waaaah! I'm a special snowflake. I shouldn't have to wait in traffic. I should be able to endanger everyone else by flying between vehicles until I reach my exit, then force my way back into traffic, causing the cars around me to slam on their brakes. Traffic should come to halt for miles just for me. (Which is what happens in rush hour traffic. The motorcyclist doesn't break free of the pack, impeding no one, when traffic is bumper to bumper all the way to the suburbs.) It's dangerous and my bike will get hot because I chose to ride it during rush hour. It's not fair! http://www.finerminds.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/33/files/2012/12/shutterstock_82399513.jpg It's been shown (when done safely) by study to reduce congestion, decrease (not increase) accidents and their severity, and benefit YOU stuck in traffic, when other smaller vehicles can filter past larger ones. So, not only are you wrong in asserting it's endangering traffic, you're exemplifying my point that people's objection is based on resentment that another vehicle seems to be getting farther than you....even when they're doing all the traffic a favor. California DOT wanted a rationale to ban it, but their studies came back supporting the practice rather than condemning it. http://blog.caranddriver.com/california-says-motorcycle-lane-splitting-is-hella-safe-really/ How's it feel to be feeling instead of thinking? I imagine it's what an anti-gunner feels when they look at a state like Vermont and still fume that it should be awash in blood and crime. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 9:21:21 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You people are fucking ridiculous. If the motorcyclist wants to lane split, then so be it. If you drive a car, check your fucking mirrors, which you should be doing anyway, and move the fuck over and let the cyclist by. It saves you time and I don't see how it could inconvenience you in any way. If some Darwin award winning douche wants to split at 100 mph, oh fucking well. He is going to end up as bumper juice, which he would've if splitting was legal or not. If you car drivers would just calm your Tits and not flip the fuck out because a biker can get somewhere faster, the whole idea would work. Hell, if you're jealous, get a goddamn bike yourself. Wow, five fucks in one short paragraph. And here I was thinking that Carolina people were all kinds of chill and friendly. 
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Posted: 5/26/2015 9:21:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Waaaah! I'm a special snowflake. I shouldn't have to wait in traffic. I should be able to endanger everyone else by flying between vehicles until I reach my exit, then force my way back into traffic, causing the cars around me to slam on their brakes. Traffic should come to halt for miles just for me. (Which is what happens in rush hour traffic. The motorcyclist doesn't break free of the pack, impeding no one, when traffic is bumper to bumper all the way to the suburbs.) It's dangerous and my bike will get hot because I chose to ride it during rush hour. It's not fair! http://www.finerminds.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/33/files/2012/12/shutterstock_82399513.jpg Pretty sure no one freaked out in the video posted earlier. You might not be able to handle a lane splitting motorcycle and spaz out because it's something different. Get a bike. Buuuut if you can't handle bikes lane splitting without flipping shit, you probably couldn't handle riding a bike. It might be sensory overload for your neuron. Hell, you probably shouldn't have a license in the first place. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 9:23:18 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's been shown (when done safely) by study to reduce congestion, decrease (not increase) accidents and their severity, and benefit YOU stuck in traffic, when other smaller vehicles can filter past larger ones. So, not only are you wrong in asserting it's endangering traffic, you're exemplifying my point that people's objection is based on resentment that another vehicle seems to be getting farther than you....even when they're doing all the traffic a favor. California DOT wanted a rationale to ban it, but their studies came back supporting the practice rather than condemning it. http://blog.caranddriver.com/california-says-motorcycle-lane-splitting-is-hella-safe-really/ How's it feel to be feeling instead of thinking? I imagine it's what an anti-gunner feels when they look at a state like Vermont and still fume that it should be awash in blood and crime. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Waaaah! I'm a special snowflake. I shouldn't have to wait in traffic. I should be able to endanger everyone else by flying between vehicles until I reach my exit, then force my way back into traffic, causing the cars around me to slam on their brakes. Traffic should come to halt for miles just for me. (Which is what happens in rush hour traffic. The motorcyclist doesn't break free of the pack, impeding no one, when traffic is bumper to bumper all the way to the suburbs.) It's dangerous and my bike will get hot because I chose to ride it during rush hour. It's not fair! http://www.finerminds.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/33/files/2012/12/shutterstock_82399513.jpg It's been shown (when done safely) by study to reduce congestion, decrease (not increase) accidents and their severity, and benefit YOU stuck in traffic, when other smaller vehicles can filter past larger ones. So, not only are you wrong in asserting it's endangering traffic, you're exemplifying my point that people's objection is based on resentment that another vehicle seems to be getting farther than you....even when they're doing all the traffic a favor. California DOT wanted a rationale to ban it, but their studies came back supporting the practice rather than condemning it. http://blog.caranddriver.com/california-says-motorcycle-lane-splitting-is-hella-safe-really/ How's it feel to be feeling instead of thinking? I imagine it's what an anti-gunner feels when they look at a state like Vermont and still fume that it should be awash in blood and crime. Its useless. Personal attack removed...krp |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 9:24:51 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow, five fucks in one short paragraph. And here I was thinking that Carolina people were all kinds of chill and friendly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You people are fucking ridiculous. If the motorcyclist wants to lane split, then so be it. If you drive a car, check your fucking mirrors, which you should be doing anyway, and move the fuck over and let the cyclist by. It saves you time and I don't see how it could inconvenience you in any way. If some Darwin award winning douche wants to split at 100 mph, oh fucking well. He is going to end up as bumper juice, which he would've if splitting was legal or not. If you car drivers would just calm your Tits and not flip the fuck out because a biker can get somewhere faster, the whole idea would work. Hell, if you're jealous, get a goddamn bike yourself. Wow, five fucks in one short paragraph. And here I was thinking that Carolina people were all kinds of chill and friendly. Actually live in NC. Here's the REAL kicker, I personally wouldn't lane split. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 9:27:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At which point the vehicle is at fault for changing lanes in front of the idiot riding between cars/lanes.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's a good idea until some changes lanes infront of you. At which point the vehicle is at fault for changing lanes in front of the idiot riding between cars/lanes. Not when he's driving like Crazy Ivan in the video. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 9:31:04 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually live in NC. Here's the REAL kicker, I personally wouldn't lane split. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You people are fucking ridiculous. If the motorcyclist wants to lane split, then so be it. If you drive a car, check your fucking mirrors, which you should be doing anyway, and move the fuck over and let the cyclist by. It saves you time and I don't see how it could inconvenience you in any way. If some Darwin award winning douche wants to split at 100 mph, oh fucking well. He is going to end up as bumper juice, which he would've if splitting was legal or not. If you car drivers would just calm your Tits and not flip the fuck out because a biker can get somewhere faster, the whole idea would work. Hell, if you're jealous, get a goddamn bike yourself. Wow, five fucks in one short paragraph. And here I was thinking that Carolina people were all kinds of chill and friendly. Actually live in NC. Here's the REAL kicker, I personally wouldn't lane split. Lol! I don't do it either. Believe me, I like the idea but I won't do it just because Cali says it's safe to do. So far they haven't been right about anything. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 9:33:56 PM EDT
[#13]
for every instance I see the loud pipes save lives crap I see a half dozen idiots on bikes driving like they don't care for their lives.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see some of those guys going straight up retarded shit on a daily basis .Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
These kids nowadays are really pushing it I see some of those guys going straight up retarded shit on a daily basis . |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 9:34:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see some of those guys going straight up retarded shit on a daily basis .Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
These kids nowadays are really pushing it I see some of those guys going straight up retarded shit on a daily basis .This- every day on "DIE-95" and it just ain't the kids on motorcycles either. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 9:46:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol! I don't do it either. Believe me, I like the idea but I won't do it just because Cali says it's safe to do. So far they haven't been right about anything. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You people are fucking ridiculous. If the motorcyclist wants to lane split, then so be it. If you drive a car, check your fucking mirrors, which you should be doing anyway, and move the fuck over and let the cyclist by. It saves you time and I don't see how it could inconvenience you in any way. If some Darwin award winning douche wants to split at 100 mph, oh fucking well. He is going to end up as bumper juice, which he would've if splitting was legal or not. If you car drivers would just calm your Tits and not flip the fuck out because a biker can get somewhere faster, the whole idea would work. Hell, if you're jealous, get a goddamn bike yourself. Wow, five fucks in one short paragraph. And here I was thinking that Carolina people were all kinds of chill and friendly. Actually live in NC. Here's the REAL kicker, I personally wouldn't lane split. Lol! I don't do it either. Believe me, I like the idea but I won't do it just because Cali says it's safe to do. So far they haven't been right about anything. Cali is control freak central. They've done everything in the universe to ban everything. And because of that loophole and that scary freedom being exerted in some of the worst traffic in the nation, the "not fair" crowd pushed the government to ban it. And, the CalDOT folks wanted a reason to ban it. So, they looked at it with an eye of finding a problem. Those statistics didn't work out, it simply isn't dangerous (when done in a safe manner). If you wouldn't do it, I'd have to ask do you not trust yourself? If you don't trust other drivers, then you're not studying the statistics close enough - you're more at risk in stop-go traffic with less control over an impending accident than filtering through the stopped or slow cars. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 9:48:37 PM EDT
[#16]
Saw a splitter go down about a week ago on 35S about downtown Dallas.. Was not a cars fault it was that big ass piece of rubber off a 18 wheeler tire that sits right on the stripe that got him.
Guess he shouldn't have lane split at night. I slowed down enough to see he was alive and asked if it hurt. And yes someone had already stopped and was calling the po-po. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 9:51:27 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's been shown (when done safely) by study to reduce congestion, decrease (not increase) accidents and their severity, and benefit YOU stuck in traffic, when other smaller vehicles can filter past larger ones. So, not only are you wrong in asserting it's endangering traffic, you're exemplifying my point that people's objection is based on resentment that another vehicle seems to be getting farther than you....even when they're doing all the traffic a favor. California DOT wanted a rationale to ban it, but their studies came back supporting the practice rather than condemning it. http://blog.caranddriver.com/california-says-motorcycle-lane-splitting-is-hella-safe-really/ How's it feel to be feeling instead of thinking? I imagine it's what an anti-gunner feels when they look at a state like Vermont and still fume that it should be awash in blood and crime. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Waaaah! I'm a special snowflake. I shouldn't have to wait in traffic. I should be able to endanger everyone else by flying between vehicles until I reach my exit, then force my way back into traffic, causing the cars around me to slam on their brakes. Traffic should come to halt for miles just for me. (Which is what happens in rush hour traffic. The motorcyclist doesn't break free of the pack, impeding no one, when traffic is bumper to bumper all the way to the suburbs.) It's dangerous and my bike will get hot because I chose to ride it during rush hour. It's not fair! http://www.finerminds.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/33/files/2012/12/shutterstock_82399513.jpg It's been shown (when done safely) by study to reduce congestion, decrease (not increase) accidents and their severity, and benefit YOU stuck in traffic, when other smaller vehicles can filter past larger ones. So, not only are you wrong in asserting it's endangering traffic, you're exemplifying my point that people's objection is based on resentment that another vehicle seems to be getting farther than you....even when they're doing all the traffic a favor. California DOT wanted a rationale to ban it, but their studies came back supporting the practice rather than condemning it. http://blog.caranddriver.com/california-says-motorcycle-lane-splitting-is-hella-safe-really/ How's it feel to be feeling instead of thinking? I imagine it's what an anti-gunner feels when they look at a state like Vermont and still fume that it should be awash in blood and crime. Oh, a random study I never heard of performed by I don't know who, was mentioned on the internet? I totally change my opinion that was based on years of actual observation working traffic and traffic accidents. A truck driving in the median until it reaches it's exit, then forcing it's way back across lanes is no different. No one would thank him for doing everyone else a favour. (He would actually be safer than the bike prior to reaching his exit, as he would be in the median, not aiming a several hundred pound missile at law abiding folks as he blasts by inches away at 100 mph.) As with it's gun laws, California drops the ball once again. How's it feel to be aligning with the anti-gunners because you feel you should get special treatment? Perhaps you should think about that. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 9:55:09 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its useless. His single brain cell can barely handle basic life sustaining functions, let alone rational thought. That's the best you've got? If you guys are going to use up your burner accounts you should at least post some cocks or something. It's like you don't even care anymore. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 9:56:06 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh, a random study I never heard of performed by I don't know who, was mentioned on the internet? I totally change my opinion that was based on years of actual observation working traffic and traffic accidents. A truck driving in the median until it reaches it's exit, then forcing it's way back across lanes is no different. No one would thank him for doing everyone else a favour. (He would actually be safer than the bike prior to reaching his exit, as he would be in the median, not aiming a several hundred pound missile at law abiding folks as he blasts by inches away at 100 mph.) As with it's gun laws, California drops the ball once again. How's it feel to be aligning with the anti-gunners because you feel you should get special treatment? Perhaps you should think about that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Waaaah! I'm a special snowflake. I shouldn't have to wait in traffic. I should be able to endanger everyone else by flying between vehicles until I reach my exit, then force my way back into traffic, causing the cars around me to slam on their brakes. Traffic should come to halt for miles just for me. (Which is what happens in rush hour traffic. The motorcyclist doesn't break free of the pack, impeding no one, when traffic is bumper to bumper all the way to the suburbs.) It's dangerous and my bike will get hot because I chose to ride it during rush hour. It's not fair! http://www.finerminds.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/33/files/2012/12/shutterstock_82399513.jpg It's been shown (when done safely) by study to reduce congestion, decrease (not increase) accidents and their severity, and benefit YOU stuck in traffic, when other smaller vehicles can filter past larger ones. So, not only are you wrong in asserting it's endangering traffic, you're exemplifying my point that people's objection is based on resentment that another vehicle seems to be getting farther than you....even when they're doing all the traffic a favor. California DOT wanted a rationale to ban it, but their studies came back supporting the practice rather than condemning it. http://blog.caranddriver.com/california-says-motorcycle-lane-splitting-is-hella-safe-really/ How's it feel to be feeling instead of thinking? I imagine it's what an anti-gunner feels when they look at a state like Vermont and still fume that it should be awash in blood and crime. Oh, a random study I never heard of performed by I don't know who, was mentioned on the internet? I totally change my opinion that was based on years of actual observation working traffic and traffic accidents. A truck driving in the median until it reaches it's exit, then forcing it's way back across lanes is no different. No one would thank him for doing everyone else a favour. (He would actually be safer than the bike prior to reaching his exit, as he would be in the median, not aiming a several hundred pound missile at law abiding folks as he blasts by inches away at 100 mph.) As with it's gun laws, California drops the ball once again. How's it feel to be aligning with the anti-gunners because you feel you should get special treatment? Perhaps you should think about that. You seem to have an issue with "treatment." I call it personal choice. *edit, there's this word. Ya know, freedom or some shit. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 9:59:04 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Eh, there's a right and a wrong way to do it. /thread |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 10:00:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The segment of motorcyclists that die the most are middle aged Harley dudes that re-enter the sport in their mid to late 30's because they start to feel old and want to be badasses again. This stat has been consistant for over 20 years now. Link to your stat or it's just more arfcom expert bullshit. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 10:00:49 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cali is control freak central. They've done everything in the universe to ban everything. And because of that loophole and that scary freedom being exerted in some of the worst traffic in the nation, the "not fair" crowd pushed the government to ban it. And, the CalDOT folks wanted a reason to ban it. So, they looked at it with an eye of finding a problem. Those statistics didn't work out, it simply isn't dangerous (when done in a safe manner). If you wouldn't do it, I'd have to ask do you not trust yourself? If you don't trust other drivers, then you're not studying the statistics close enough - you're more at risk in stop-go traffic with less control over an impending accident than filtering through the stopped or slow cars. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You people are fucking ridiculous. If the motorcyclist wants to lane split, then so be it. If you drive a car, check your fucking mirrors, which you should be doing anyway, and move the fuck over and let the cyclist by. It saves you time and I don't see how it could inconvenience you in any way. If some Darwin award winning douche wants to split at 100 mph, oh fucking well. He is going to end up as bumper juice, which he would've if splitting was legal or not. If you car drivers would just calm your Tits and not flip the fuck out because a biker can get somewhere faster, the whole idea would work. Hell, if you're jealous, get a goddamn bike yourself. Wow, five fucks in one short paragraph. And here I was thinking that Carolina people were all kinds of chill and friendly. Actually live in NC. Here's the REAL kicker, I personally wouldn't lane split. Lol! I don't do it either. Believe me, I like the idea but I won't do it just because Cali says it's safe to do. So far they haven't been right about anything. Cali is control freak central. They've done everything in the universe to ban everything. And because of that loophole and that scary freedom being exerted in some of the worst traffic in the nation, the "not fair" crowd pushed the government to ban it. And, the CalDOT folks wanted a reason to ban it. So, they looked at it with an eye of finding a problem. Those statistics didn't work out, it simply isn't dangerous (when done in a safe manner). If you wouldn't do it, I'd have to ask do you not trust yourself? If you don't trust other drivers, then you're not studying the statistics close enough - you're more at risk in stop-go traffic with less control over an impending accident than filtering through the stopped or slow cars. I'm still not convinced that I'd be safer dodging and weaving through moving cars, trucks, and semi's. If I'm waiting behind a vehicle in traffic and there's 20-50-100 cars behind me doing the same 5 mph crawl as I am, how could someone, anyone, come speeding up behind me and slam into me? If a vehicle bumps me at 2-5 mph, my bike is plenty long and sturdy enough to keep me from being crushed between it and the vehicle in front of me. (Unless it's a big ass semi!) I prefer to keep back a few feet and ride far right in the low speed lane while watching my mirrors during heavy traffic. I've only had to dip right one time in my entire life and it saved my life. Just makes more sense to me to watch my 6 and leave myself an out rather than have to watch hundreds of cars as I pass by them. Offensive driving makes much more sense riding in the rural areas. Defensive driving works best for me in traffic. I just cannot see how riding through heavy traffic with the mentality of, "OMG, I'm in such danger on my bike that I need to get away from all these moving cars by dodging and weaving through them. I must make sure that every vehicle on the road is behind me". You could drive around the world twice and still have cars behind you. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 10:01:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Eh, there's a right and a wrong way to do it. Damn straight   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XihQeZpwqpE |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 10:06:42 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm still not convinced that I'd be safer dodging and weaving through moving cars, trucks, and semi's. If I'm waiting behind a vehicle in traffic and there's 20-50-100 cars behind me doing the same 5 mph crawl as I am, how could someone, anyone, come speeding up behind me and slam into me? If a vehicle bumps me at 2-5 mph, my bike is plenty long and sturdy enough to keep me from being crushed between it and the vehicle in front of me. (Unless it's a big ass semi!) I prefer to keep back a few feet and ride far right in the low speed lane while watching my mirrors during heavy traffic. I've only had to dip right one time in my entire life and it saved my life. Just makes more sense to me to watch my 6 and leave myself an out rather than have to watch hundreds of cars as I pass by them. A. You're not supposed to dodge and weave. You have a gross misconception about what occurs. You're supposed to slowly and carefully go straight down an opening. If you see a gap ahead (that represents a chance for a car to rapidly change lanes), you have control to avoid that, signal you're coming through, or keep an eye out for a movement. It's not dangerous, unless you're dumb or reckless. Which, I think, is what California DOT found out. B. Being crushed by a vehicle can happen at 5mph. Even the smallest car outweighs you by thousands of pounds. A fender-bender can be incredibly violent, when you're perched atop a motorcycle. The fact is, you're more at risk from collision in stop and go than filtering. If you can't be convinced, fine, stay put but the numbers say otherwise and for damned sure I'd rather be moving slowly than sitting still hoping the lady behind me isn't doing her makeup and careless. When going between slow or parked cars, they can't go anywhere unless there's a gap (which they see, and you see). If you just march on and get clipped, shame on you too. It's safe, if you do it right. Same as all traffic maneuvers, really. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 10:14:24 PM EDT
[#25]
I'll lane split on occasion. It's mostly when other cars are running side by side at or under the speed limit on highways. I will never do it on city streets, too many unknowns to account for.
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Posted: 5/26/2015 10:21:34 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because the safest place for me to be is as far away from cars as I can get at all times. Filtering to the front and getting away from everybody ( after checking some fucktard isn't running the red light ) is the safeset place to be. I could care less if you think it's wrong because I'm not "waiting in line " ready to get crushed by some vapid teenager on her cellphone coming up to all the stopped cars. You should try reading some of the studies about lane filtering and why it's better for folks in cars for traffic reasons and safer for the folks on motorcycles at the same time. The educated tend to call it win win. When you double your experience in years riding motorcycles we can talk about our similar observations. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Eh, there's a right and a wrong way to do it. Yep, I do it at every stoplight and only by cars that are already stopped. I don't trust folks at all. Then wait the fuck in line like everyone else until the light turns green. Why is your destination so much more important than everyone else's? If you get squashed, you'll have no one to blame but yourself....if you survive. ETA: I've been riding for over 19 years and pass other vehicles quite often on open roads, but lane splitting is just stupid especially since I'm never in a big rush when I'm on the bike. Because the safest place for me to be is as far away from cars as I can get at all times. Filtering to the front and getting away from everybody ( after checking some fucktard isn't running the red light ) is the safeset place to be. I could care less if you think it's wrong because I'm not "waiting in line " ready to get crushed by some vapid teenager on her cellphone coming up to all the stopped cars. You should try reading some of the studies about lane filtering and why it's better for folks in cars for traffic reasons and safer for the folks on motorcycles at the same time. The educated tend to call it win win. When you double your experience in years riding motorcycles we can talk about our similar observations. cuts down on congestion also |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 10:29:36 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A. You're not supposed to dodge and weave. You have a gross misconception about what occurs. You're supposed to slowly and carefully go straight down an opening. If you see a gap ahead (that represents a chance for a car to rapidly change lanes), you have control to avoid that, signal you're coming through, or keep an eye out for a movement. It's not dangerous, unless you're dumb or reckless. Which, I think, is what California DOT found out. B. Being crushed by a vehicle can happen at 5mph. Even the smallest car outweighs you by thousands of pounds. A fender-bender can be incredibly violent, when you're perched atop a motorcycle. The fact is, you're more at risk from collision in stop and go than filtering. If you can't be convinced, fine, stay put but the numbers say otherwise and for damned sure I'd rather be moving slowly than sitting still hoping the lady behind me isn't doing her makeup and careless. When going between slow or parked cars, they can't go anywhere unless there's a gap (which they see, and you see). If you just march on and get clipped, shame on you too. It's safe, if you do it right. Same as all traffic maneuvers, really. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm still not convinced that I'd be safer dodging and weaving through moving cars, trucks, and semi's. If I'm waiting behind a vehicle in traffic and there's 20-50-100 cars behind me doing the same 5 mph crawl as I am, how could someone, anyone, come speeding up behind me and slam into me? If a vehicle bumps me at 2-5 mph, my bike is plenty long and sturdy enough to keep me from being crushed between it and the vehicle in front of me. (Unless it's a big ass semi!) I prefer to keep back a few feet and ride far right in the low speed lane while watching my mirrors during heavy traffic. I've only had to dip right one time in my entire life and it saved my life. Just makes more sense to me to watch my 6 and leave myself an out rather than have to watch hundreds of cars as I pass by them. A. You're not supposed to dodge and weave. You have a gross misconception about what occurs. You're supposed to slowly and carefully go straight down an opening. If you see a gap ahead (that represents a chance for a car to rapidly change lanes), you have control to avoid that, signal you're coming through, or keep an eye out for a movement. It's not dangerous, unless you're dumb or reckless. Which, I think, is what California DOT found out. B. Being crushed by a vehicle can happen at 5mph. Even the smallest car outweighs you by thousands of pounds. A fender-bender can be incredibly violent, when you're perched atop a motorcycle. The fact is, you're more at risk from collision in stop and go than filtering. If you can't be convinced, fine, stay put but the numbers say otherwise and for damned sure I'd rather be moving slowly than sitting still hoping the lady behind me isn't doing her makeup and careless. When going between slow or parked cars, they can't go anywhere unless there's a gap (which they see, and you see). If you just march on and get clipped, shame on you too. It's safe, if you do it right. Same as all traffic maneuvers, really. But what about the fact that while your moving through traffic between cars, you now have 4 new possible ladies doing their makeup every few milliseconds on every side? I'm more concerned about being clipped, knocked down, and run over than being rear ended. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 10:33:21 PM EDT
[#28]
OL at the knotted up biker panties.
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Posted: 5/26/2015 10:36:26 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But what about the fact that while your moving through traffic between cars, you now have 4 new possible ladies doing their makeup every few milliseconds on every side? I'm more concerned about being clipped, knocked down, and run over than being rear ended. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm still not convinced that I'd be safer dodging and weaving through moving cars, trucks, and semi's. If I'm waiting behind a vehicle in traffic and there's 20-50-100 cars behind me doing the same 5 mph crawl as I am, how could someone, anyone, come speeding up behind me and slam into me? If a vehicle bumps me at 2-5 mph, my bike is plenty long and sturdy enough to keep me from being crushed between it and the vehicle in front of me. (Unless it's a big ass semi!) I prefer to keep back a few feet and ride far right in the low speed lane while watching my mirrors during heavy traffic. I've only had to dip right one time in my entire life and it saved my life. Just makes more sense to me to watch my 6 and leave myself an out rather than have to watch hundreds of cars as I pass by them. A. You're not supposed to dodge and weave. You have a gross misconception about what occurs. You're supposed to slowly and carefully go straight down an opening. If you see a gap ahead (that represents a chance for a car to rapidly change lanes), you have control to avoid that, signal you're coming through, or keep an eye out for a movement. It's not dangerous, unless you're dumb or reckless. Which, I think, is what California DOT found out. B. Being crushed by a vehicle can happen at 5mph. Even the smallest car outweighs you by thousands of pounds. A fender-bender can be incredibly violent, when you're perched atop a motorcycle. The fact is, you're more at risk from collision in stop and go than filtering. If you can't be convinced, fine, stay put but the numbers say otherwise and for damned sure I'd rather be moving slowly than sitting still hoping the lady behind me isn't doing her makeup and careless. When going between slow or parked cars, they can't go anywhere unless there's a gap (which they see, and you see). If you just march on and get clipped, shame on you too. It's safe, if you do it right. Same as all traffic maneuvers, really. But what about the fact that while your moving through traffic between cars, you now have 4 new possible ladies doing their makeup every few milliseconds on every side? I'm more concerned about being clipped, knocked down, and run over than being rear ended.  Ugh. They're trapped in their lane, man. They can't go sideways because it's filled with another car. You're just taking the space in between. Do you just randomly turn left in stop & go traffic and hit people in the door? No? Well, no one else does either unless there's a gap or a promise of one. As you SLOWLY (read that again, SLOWLY) pick your way down that isle of clear space, if you see a space opening up, that's your cue to pay attention that the car on the closed side doesn't move to occupy it. You can always stop right where you are, slow down, or even speed up to avoid that. It's not complicated. You're at more risk sitting still than moving in between trapped cars. That's the secret. That's the magic. You don't go fast, you pay attention, you don't put yourself blindly into that gap. And, you're safe doing it.  |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 10:37:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OL at the knotted up biker panties. lol at the guy who can't lol. The bunched panties certainly don't belong to the guys fantasizing about wadding up a bike that's filtering. You're paying attention, you win 3 internets. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 10:41:57 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But what about the fact that while your moving through traffic between cars, you now have 4 new possible ladies doing their makeup every few milliseconds on every side? I'm more concerned about being clipped, knocked down, and run over than being rear ended. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm still not convinced that I'd be safer dodging and weaving through moving cars, trucks, and semi's. If I'm waiting behind a vehicle in traffic and there's 20-50-100 cars behind me doing the same 5 mph crawl as I am, how could someone, anyone, come speeding up behind me and slam into me? If a vehicle bumps me at 2-5 mph, my bike is plenty long and sturdy enough to keep me from being crushed between it and the vehicle in front of me. (Unless it's a big ass semi!) I prefer to keep back a few feet and ride far right in the low speed lane while watching my mirrors during heavy traffic. I've only had to dip right one time in my entire life and it saved my life. Just makes more sense to me to watch my 6 and leave myself an out rather than have to watch hundreds of cars as I pass by them. A. You're not supposed to dodge and weave. You have a gross misconception about what occurs. You're supposed to slowly and carefully go straight down an opening. If you see a gap ahead (that represents a chance for a car to rapidly change lanes), you have control to avoid that, signal you're coming through, or keep an eye out for a movement. It's not dangerous, unless you're dumb or reckless. Which, I think, is what California DOT found out. B. Being crushed by a vehicle can happen at 5mph. Even the smallest car outweighs you by thousands of pounds. A fender-bender can be incredibly violent, when you're perched atop a motorcycle. The fact is, you're more at risk from collision in stop and go than filtering. If you can't be convinced, fine, stay put but the numbers say otherwise and for damned sure I'd rather be moving slowly than sitting still hoping the lady behind me isn't doing her makeup and careless. When going between slow or parked cars, they can't go anywhere unless there's a gap (which they see, and you see). If you just march on and get clipped, shame on you too. It's safe, if you do it right. Same as all traffic maneuvers, really. But what about the fact that while your moving through traffic between cars, you now have 4 new possible ladies doing their makeup every few milliseconds on every side? I'm more concerned about being clipped, knocked down, and run over than being rear ended. You're not paying attention are ya, ladies doing their makeup may drift from side to side a bit, but they aren't running between lanes and rear ending you. The top two accidents in the shit not caused by the rider himself because he's a clueless idiot are.... people turning in front of the MCs direction of travel and rear ended. Seriously, some of you guys need to do some research before you continue to be the kid we all knew in school that always stood up and said " but, but but what if " and spouted some ridiculous contrived bullshit thinking they were smart by thinking outside the box. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 10:42:33 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 5/26/2015 10:44:12 PM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 5/26/2015 10:48:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://i.imgur.com/MOlKZ.gif Ugh. They're trapped in their lane, man. They can't go sideways because it's filled with another car. You're just taking the space in between. Do you just randomly turn left in stop & go traffic and hit people in the door? No? Well, no one else does either unless there's a gap or a promise of one. As you SLOWLY (read that again, SLOWLY) pick your way down that isle of clear space, if you see a space opening up, that's your cue to pay attention that the car on the closed side doesn't move to occupy it. You can always stop right where you are, slow down, or even speed up to avoid that. It's not complicated. You're at more risk sitting still than moving in between trapped cars. That's the secret. That's the magic. You don't go fast, you pay attention, you don't put yourself blindly into that gap. And, you're safe doing it. http://img.pandawhale.com/73639-Jim-Carrey-takes-a-bow-gif-Tru-hcHP.gif Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm still not convinced that I'd be safer dodging and weaving through moving cars, trucks, and semi's. If I'm waiting behind a vehicle in traffic and there's 20-50-100 cars behind me doing the same 5 mph crawl as I am, how could someone, anyone, come speeding up behind me and slam into me? If a vehicle bumps me at 2-5 mph, my bike is plenty long and sturdy enough to keep me from being crushed between it and the vehicle in front of me. (Unless it's a big ass semi!) I prefer to keep back a few feet and ride far right in the low speed lane while watching my mirrors during heavy traffic. I've only had to dip right one time in my entire life and it saved my life. Just makes more sense to me to watch my 6 and leave myself an out rather than have to watch hundreds of cars as I pass by them. A. You're not supposed to dodge and weave. You have a gross misconception about what occurs. You're supposed to slowly and carefully go straight down an opening. If you see a gap ahead (that represents a chance for a car to rapidly change lanes), you have control to avoid that, signal you're coming through, or keep an eye out for a movement. It's not dangerous, unless you're dumb or reckless. Which, I think, is what California DOT found out. B. Being crushed by a vehicle can happen at 5mph. Even the smallest car outweighs you by thousands of pounds. A fender-bender can be incredibly violent, when you're perched atop a motorcycle. The fact is, you're more at risk from collision in stop and go than filtering. If you can't be convinced, fine, stay put but the numbers say otherwise and for damned sure I'd rather be moving slowly than sitting still hoping the lady behind me isn't doing her makeup and careless. When going between slow or parked cars, they can't go anywhere unless there's a gap (which they see, and you see). If you just march on and get clipped, shame on you too. It's safe, if you do it right. Same as all traffic maneuvers, really. But what about the fact that while your moving through traffic between cars, you now have 4 new possible ladies doing their makeup every few milliseconds on every side? I'm more concerned about being clipped, knocked down, and run over than being rear ended. http://i.imgur.com/MOlKZ.gif Ugh. They're trapped in their lane, man. They can't go sideways because it's filled with another car. You're just taking the space in between. Do you just randomly turn left in stop & go traffic and hit people in the door? No? Well, no one else does either unless there's a gap or a promise of one. As you SLOWLY (read that again, SLOWLY) pick your way down that isle of clear space, if you see a space opening up, that's your cue to pay attention that the car on the closed side doesn't move to occupy it. You can always stop right where you are, slow down, or even speed up to avoid that. It's not complicated. You're at more risk sitting still than moving in between trapped cars. That's the secret. That's the magic. You don't go fast, you pay attention, you don't put yourself blindly into that gap. And, you're safe doing it. http://img.pandawhale.com/73639-Jim-Carrey-takes-a-bow-gif-Tru-hcHP.gif I understand the premise of what you are saying but I strongly disagree about vehicles being "trapped in their lane". I've been witness to many more side swipe / lane change accidents than rear-endings. (Yes, I said rear-endings! ) As far as I'm concerned your either in one lane or the other. Riding the lane divider line is called J-Walking and those people usually get run over.
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Posted: 5/26/2015 10:56:38 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OL at the knotted up biker panties. I bet it really pisses you off that bikes are pretty well immune to your attempts to play Left Lane Cop 
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Posted: 5/26/2015 10:57:50 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I bet he blamed the "cager"... Quote History |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 10:58:42 PM EDT
[#37]
I got a new motorcycle March of last year. Less than 30 days later i was rear ended on the bike. The woman who hit me had been sitting behind me at the red light. Thiught it was green, so she hit the gas, not looking at the motorcycle that was still in front of her. If i had been allowed to filter to the front of the line, when she hit the gas, and then the car in front of her, would i have been injured as i watched it in my mirror?
Nope. Neither would my bike, less than 30 days old, or helmet. Sitting completely still, all traffic stopped. Search back, i posted about it the day it happened. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 10:59:16 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bet he blamed the "cager"... Quote HistoryIn California the guy in the car would be paying. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 11:01:42 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I understand the premise of what you are saying but I strongly disagree about vehicles being "trapped in their lane". I've been witness to many more side swipe / lane change accidents than rear-endings. (Yes, I said rear-endings! ) As far as I'm concerned your either in one lane or the other. Riding the lane divider line is called J-Walking and those people usually get run over.Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm still not convinced that I'd be safer dodging and weaving through moving cars, trucks, and semi's. If I'm waiting behind a vehicle in traffic and there's 20-50-100 cars behind me doing the same 5 mph crawl as I am, how could someone, anyone, come speeding up behind me and slam into me? If a vehicle bumps me at 2-5 mph, my bike is plenty long and sturdy enough to keep me from being crushed between it and the vehicle in front of me. (Unless it's a big ass semi!) I prefer to keep back a few feet and ride far right in the low speed lane while watching my mirrors during heavy traffic. I've only had to dip right one time in my entire life and it saved my life. Just makes more sense to me to watch my 6 and leave myself an out rather than have to watch hundreds of cars as I pass by them. A. You're not supposed to dodge and weave. You have a gross misconception about what occurs. You're supposed to slowly and carefully go straight down an opening. If you see a gap ahead (that represents a chance for a car to rapidly change lanes), you have control to avoid that, signal you're coming through, or keep an eye out for a movement. It's not dangerous, unless you're dumb or reckless. Which, I think, is what California DOT found out. B. Being crushed by a vehicle can happen at 5mph. Even the smallest car outweighs you by thousands of pounds. A fender-bender can be incredibly violent, when you're perched atop a motorcycle. The fact is, you're more at risk from collision in stop and go than filtering. If you can't be convinced, fine, stay put but the numbers say otherwise and for damned sure I'd rather be moving slowly than sitting still hoping the lady behind me isn't doing her makeup and careless. When going between slow or parked cars, they can't go anywhere unless there's a gap (which they see, and you see). If you just march on and get clipped, shame on you too. It's safe, if you do it right. Same as all traffic maneuvers, really. But what about the fact that while your moving through traffic between cars, you now have 4 new possible ladies doing their makeup every few milliseconds on every side? I'm more concerned about being clipped, knocked down, and run over than being rear ended. http://i.imgur.com/MOlKZ.gif Ugh. They're trapped in their lane, man. They can't go sideways because it's filled with another car. You're just taking the space in between. Do you just randomly turn left in stop & go traffic and hit people in the door? No? Well, no one else does either unless there's a gap or a promise of one. As you SLOWLY (read that again, SLOWLY) pick your way down that isle of clear space, if you see a space opening up, that's your cue to pay attention that the car on the closed side doesn't move to occupy it. You can always stop right where you are, slow down, or even speed up to avoid that. It's not complicated. You're at more risk sitting still than moving in between trapped cars. That's the secret. That's the magic. You don't go fast, you pay attention, you don't put yourself blindly into that gap. And, you're safe doing it. http://img.pandawhale.com/73639-Jim-Carrey-takes-a-bow-gif-Tru-hcHP.gif I understand the premise of what you are saying but I strongly disagree about vehicles being "trapped in their lane". I've been witness to many more side swipe / lane change accidents than rear-endings. (Yes, I said rear-endings! ) As far as I'm concerned your either in one lane or the other. Riding the lane divider line is called J-Walking and those people usually get run over.For the third time, in stop and go traffic unless there's a gap, or promise of one, people don't just turn left or right into each other. Disagree all you want. Argue the statistics. They're demonstrably against you. You stand more chance getting hit from behind (see maggiethecat above). I've been rear-ended too. If you're right, then the numbers don't work that way and they don't. It's as simple as that. I can lead ya to water.... |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 11:03:06 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bet he blamed the "cager"... Quote HistoryWhy not? its his fault. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 11:07:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I got a new motorcycle March of last year. Less than 30 days later i was rear ended on the bike. The woman who hit me had been sitting behind me at the red light. Thiught it was green, so she hit the gas, not looking at the motorcycle that was still in front of her. If i had been allowed to filter to the front of the line, when she hit the gas, and then the car in front of her, would i have been injured as i watched it in my mirror? Nope. Neither would my bike, less than 30 days old, or helmet. Sitting completely still, all traffic stopped. Search back, i posted about it the day it happened. You whiny faggot! How dare you try to make yourself "immune to traffic laws" even if there's a 6 foot wide gap in front of you and your vehicle has twice the horsepower to weight ratio of everything else at the red light. Do you know how those people will feel seeing you in front of them, despite the fact that it won't force them to alter their driving one iota? 
You should go back and apologize to that woman for riding that dangerous POS and not being sufficiently visible for her not to rear end you
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Posted: 5/27/2015 12:36:24 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its useless. Personal attack removed...krp Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Waaaah! I'm a special snowflake. I shouldn't have to wait in traffic. I should be able to endanger everyone else by flying between vehicles until I reach my exit, then force my way back into traffic, causing the cars around me to slam on their brakes. Traffic should come to halt for miles just for me. (Which is what happens in rush hour traffic. The motorcyclist doesn't break free of the pack, impeding no one, when traffic is bumper to bumper all the way to the suburbs.) It's dangerous and my bike will get hot because I chose to ride it during rush hour. It's not fair! http://www.finerminds.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/33/files/2012/12/shutterstock_82399513.jpg It's been shown (when done safely) by study to reduce congestion, decrease (not increase) accidents and their severity, and benefit YOU stuck in traffic, when other smaller vehicles can filter past larger ones. So, not only are you wrong in asserting it's endangering traffic, you're exemplifying my point that people's objection is based on resentment that another vehicle seems to be getting farther than you....even when they're doing all the traffic a favor. California DOT wanted a rationale to ban it, but their studies came back supporting the practice rather than condemning it. http://blog.caranddriver.com/california-says-motorcycle-lane-splitting-is-hella-safe-really/ How's it feel to be feeling instead of thinking? I imagine it's what an anti-gunner feels when they look at a state like Vermont and still fume that it should be awash in blood and crime. Its useless. Personal attack removed...krp Thank you moderator for not banning me over stupid bs. |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 12:40:07 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i always scoot over... your welcome!! 
i just hope you wave back...  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Legal in CA. where you can see a motorcyclist being cleaned up with a shovel at least once a month. As somebody who grew up there and split lanes daily for almost 10 years...bullshit. As somebody that still lives here, and has been riding for 20 years, and splits lanes in a safe manner, I too call BS! BTW I am a commuter so I am on the freeways daily on two wheels! And there is in fact a great deal of folks in cars that will hug the road to let me by, it is amazing! i always scoot over... your welcome!!
i just hope you wave back... And I thank you! you don't have to do it but I respect that you do!
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Posted: 5/27/2015 2:35:02 AM EDT
[#44]
You're doing the Lord's work Swingset.
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Posted: 5/27/2015 8:17:52 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not? its his fault. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not? its his fault. Yep! Had a motherfucker try that on me one time. I wasn't lane splitting though. It was stopped traffic on an interstate. There was a U turn place in the median maybe 5 or 6 car lengths ahead. I went down the shoulder to catch the U turn. One car before I get to the U turn swings his door open while simultaneously getting out of his car and reaching for me screaming "WHAT ARE YOU DOING". I was a noob rider then and some how managed to miss his door. I am 100% certain he intended to grab and pull me off my bike. Lucky for him(had he been successful) I was on my way to work so no CCDW. |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 8:37:30 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're doing the Lord's work Swingset. No shit. |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 9:03:09 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wouldn't blame the biker if he did; that was on purpose. Quote HistoryQuoted:
He looked surprised to me. You've never seen someone jump out of their car at a light or in completely stopped traffic to get something out of the back seat or trunk before? (Not saying that's any more legal than what the bike did, but I see it all the time.) |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 9:09:08 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In California the guy in the car would be paying. Quote HistoryQuoted:
In California the guy in the car would be paying. It's illegal to open your car door into traffic, but the bike was riding illegally through stopped traffic at an unsafe speed. It would be interested to see if they found the biker 100% at fault or if they tried to split it, especially if they had the video. |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 9:11:51 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He looked surprised to me. You've never seen someone jump out of their car at a light or in completely stopped traffic to get something out of the back seat or trunk before? (Not saying that's any more legal than what the bike did, but I see it all the time.) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He looked surprised to me. You've never seen someone jump out of their car at a light or in completely stopped traffic to get something out of the back seat or trunk before? (Not saying that's any more legal than what the bike did, but I see it all the time.) This. By the look on the guys face, you can tell he had no idea what happened. If I were sitting in stopped traffic, I wouldn't expect a vehicle to be coming up in between cars either. |
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Posted: 5/27/2015 9:19:02 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think there is a middle ground here that I think the zealots on both sides are failing to miss, just like every other hot topic here on the site. You're not thinking of the feels, bro. |
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