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Frankly I'm sick of this bullshit. I'm of the opinion we make it all one big glass parking lot

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Shias are not going to fight for a Sunni town

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Shias are not going to fight for a Sunni town

"But if we give them training, we give them equipment, and give them support, and give them some time, I hope they will develop the will to fight, because only if they fight can ISIL remain defeated."

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No shit Sherlock. Where has this bozo been? Oh, that's right....he's had his nose up oblamo's ass for years and now he figured it out. Great job Mr. Know it All.

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So...if I may...who cares at this point?  I mean really...why do we care?

Their country...theirs heads getting chopped off...their women getting raped...their cities getting destroyed.  Why do we care?  If they don't...why should we?  Seriously?

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So...if I may...who cares at this point?  I mean really...why do we care?

Their country...theirs heads getting chopped off...their women getting raped...their cities getting destroyed.  Why do we care?  If they don't...why should we?  Seriously?

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Every senior military leader who jumped on board with the 'nation-building', COIN bullshit the politicians were selling should be forced to go to the family of a dead service member and apoligize.
The greatest nation on earth threw thousands of its citizens and trillions of its dollars at a smelly shithole, populated by people who meet none of the standards required to be considered human beings- and somehow could not maintain a military victory.
Now some of them (John McCain) want to go do it again.

Secure our border and remove the savages who have managed to get to our shores. The Middle East will cease to be a problem if we take appropriate measures to keep Muslim terrorists from coming into contact with average Americans.

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I don't think many really understand the situation in Iraq.

Let's say there was an American company guarding a major installation against insurgents. Early on in the war, the Iraqi insurgents could barely conduct a proper attack without losing significant lives, mostly with small arms attacks, RPGs, some 107mm rockets, sporadic and inaccurate mortars, very poorly coordinated assaults, poor command and control. And even then, the Americans would have to rely on air support to usually stop the enemy's attack. In comparison, the Iraqi Army does not have this luxury. They don't have air support either from assault helicopters or fixed wing, unless the Americans decide to help. They have no real way of being supported in the best of times.  

Now let's look at the realities of fighting ISIS. These aren't the JV team. Yeah, they mostly don't aim their rifles either, fight in man dresses, and act unprofessional. But they are planning and coordinating their attacks. They are using sand tables to plan. They are conducting rehearsals. Their leaders are communicating with each other by ICOM radios the whole time. They are using good tactics, like leading attacks with multiple, upwards of five massive suicide VBIEDs, using vehicles that are armored against small arms fire and RPGs. They drive into the base, blow the entry control point, multiple times, create a breach, and then exploit it with company or even battalion strength dismounted attacks, who are planned to go for specific parts of the base (based on intelligence gathered).

To defend this, the IA has questionable performing conventional forces, often led by corrupt officers and their ranks filled with "ghost soldiers," and there are some higher tier units like SWAT and Iraqi SF that are more willing and capable to fight. But without support, these units will not be able to hold for long. They aren't receiving air support from themselves (other than some small planes firing hellfires they have no real Iraqi air support) and other conventional forces from other towns that can possibly come to support them are tied down themselves by local attacks specifically designed to prevent reinforcements.

In Ramadi, these types of attacks happened throughout October, November, December, and then started again in March before they finally broke and abandoned the city center to ISIS. And yet right now, they are attempting to rally and counterattack. So I wouldn't discount the Iraqis as quickly as many want. To be honest, in Iraq and Afghanistan there have been a bunch of close calls where concerted attacks were only defeated thanks to air support or accurate and massed arty. How well would we have done without those things? I'm 100% sure we would have lost entire bases, with near 100% casualties, with only those playing dead or running away being the survivors. It happened before in American history and to all other countries. Americans don't have a monopoly on heroism, we are only as good as we ensure ourselves to be.

This whole thing is becoming politicized. I find it kind of sad that some will use the words of a democratic hack like SecDef Carter to try to make sense out of what happened. Right now everyone is trying to play the blame game. The Iraqis are doing it, their Kurdish Sunni PM might have to step down over this. Many are stating over there that the Americans specifically pressured the Iraqi govt not to use Shi'a Militia to help support Ramadi before it fell. And now in Washington, you have the US Sec. of Defense saying that the Iraqis lack the will to fight, even though they have been well trained and equipped by the US. I'm calling bullshit on that. Its a simplification designed to divert the responsibility America has in that country.

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It's real easy to talk shit when they had no air support, indirect fire, or intel to keep the enemy at bay. Fucking 0bama administration.

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There are two types of Iraqi soldiers. 1) those that turn and run when the fighting starts 2) those that sit down, take their boots off, and turn and run.

They hide behind women and children, using them as shields. They knew we would not shoot at women and children and if they accidentally hit one they would blame it on us. They set IEDs and think that makes them manly. For the most part, they are cowards and will only fight an opponent that can't fight back or is overwhelmed.

I think if those ninja pajama wearers, ISIS are ever faced with fighting a real military, they will shed those black pjs and run. They will blend in with civilian population and wait for another opportunity.

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Okay, maybe he's not a total hack like Hagel was. But Carter is political. All his positions of influence were under Clinton and then under Obama. I think we can all safely say is that at this point in his administration Obama doesn't appoint anyone to cabinet positions unless he controls them. Carter is an Obama-man. And what he said about Ramadi and the Iraqi Army was a political response to divert blame away from the US for abandoning the Iraqis.

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[
Did you forget that all those ninja pajama wears in ISIS did face off against the US military and that they did pretty well and were only defeated because we destroyed their alliance system, not because we beat them militarily?

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 Unfortunately, ISIS represents a threat we can not disengage from.

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Can't blame them:  If the Americans don't have the will to fight ISIS, what chance do they have?

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And then an Iraqi official retorts by then blaming the US for not giving enough air assets and weapons. Fucking please. Those pussies still would have run.