I actually started re-reading the series before this thread.  Currently in the beginning of book 4.

As of this point:
1) there aren't that many wilders, or Aes Sedai for that matter.
2) only 1 in 4 women who learn to channel on their own survive the process
3) Aes Sedai had been declining in power since the Breaking, probably due to culling men who could channel from the population.

I fall on the side of folks that think all of the men are irrationally henpecked by the women.

1) The big reveal about the number of women who can channel (or learn to channel) comes much later, like book 12 or so.
2) Not sure how that's relevant.
3) While they may be in decline, their expectations when interacting with...well, just about anyone...indicate that up until the series they still act with absolute authority.

I fall on the side of folks that think all of the men are irrationally henpecked by the women.

Not much difference, really...I just think hundreds of years of women being inherently more powerful than men (after thousands of years otherwise before the breaking) would lead to a culture where men are henpecked near to death throughout the culture.

I struggled through the first few chapters, hoping it would pick up, then the leper raped the girl. I put it up and haven't gone back. The dialogue and world/character building was lame enough, but that little episode made the book unreadable for me.

How to Curse and use Swear Words in the Wheel of Time You Goat-Kissing, Light Skirt, Milk-Hearted, Goat Spawn Toads!!!!

Bloody - Is a swear word by itself, "bloody" is also used to enhance or illustrate anger or annoyance (e.g. "blood and bloody ashes" [See blood and ashes], "Bloody women!", "Bloody fools!").

Flaming - Is a swear word by itself, "flaming" is also used to preface to another word to show potent expression of anger or annoyance (e.g. "Flaming Aes Sedai").

Blasted - A swear word used in conjunction with another word, similar in usage to "damned" (e.g. "Blasted Dragon Reborn").

Light - Used when astonished (e.g. "Light help us") or an exclamation (e.g. "Light!").

Burn (me, you, other person/group/object) - Similar use as damn (e.g. "Damn you", "Burn you") commonly used in response to some upsetting news (e.g. "Burn my bones").
Insults, Curses, and Vulgar Phrases

Blood and ashes - Expresses anger, disgust, other another negative emotion. Commonly intensified by using bloody ("blood and bloody ashes").

Bloody ox of a thimble-brained man - Combination of insults and swears meaning a big man with a small brain; another way of calling someone an idiot.

Bilge stone - Sea Folk insult, referring to the waste on board a ship.

Boneheaded- Idiotic.

Bull-goose fool - A reckless idiot ("twice he had stepped through a ter'angreal like a bull-goose fool, "still smiling like a bull-goose fool, "a pure bull-goose fool").

Chit - Derogatory term for girl, used like 'bitch' or 'twit' ("a lazy chit," "you ill-tempered little chit,"[9] "if she wore dresses and simpered at him like a brainless chit," etc.).

Crackbrain- Idiotic or crazy.

Daughter/Son of the sands - Extreme Sea Folk insult, usually is followed by violence.

Fish-loving scavenger - Sea Folk insult, probably not as "mild" as Elayne imagines.

Goat-kissing - Describing someone or something as despicable or annoying (e.g. "Goat-kissing Halfman", "straight through to the goat-kissing ferry," or "sisters mingling with those goat-kissing Asha'man.

Goat-spawned toad - Generally berating insult.

Goose-brain- Idiot; also goose-brained.

Light-blinded fool - A righteous, ignorant, misguided, or stupid person ("If you weren't such a Light blinded fool,"or "Burn me for a bloody Light-blinded fool") Also light-blinded idiot.

Light-forsaken - Something that is desolate or wretched ("Even here in this Light-forsaken corner of the world,"or "Light-forsaken axe! Burn me, I wish I had never seen it!")

Lightskirt - A person who is "easy," or a slut.

Lummox - An oaf, idiot, or lump of a man; usually with an adjective, such as "addle-brained lummox,"hairy lummox" (one of Faile's insults toward Perrin,) "wool-headed lummox,", or simply "great lummox."

Milk-faced - Descriptive of a pretty woman, implying she uses her beauty to tempt men ("He wants a milk-faced vixen who runs about half-naked,"that milk-faced chit").

Milk-hearted - Cowardly, weak, or timid; sometimes used by Aiel to describe wetlanders.

Mule - Someone who is stubborn is often compared to a mule ("Stubborn as a cross-eyed mule,"surlier than a mule with four stone-bruised hooves,"or "mule-headed").

Mother's milk in a cup - Expression of disgust, anger; an obscenity considered particularly vulgar.

Muscle-brained cretin - Big, stupid man or one who thinks with his muscles.

Peace! - Shienaran exclamation of surprise or used like "gosh" ("Peace, but it is good to see you").

Sheep swallop - As in, "Oh sheep swallop! Sheep swallop and bloody buttered onions!"Meaning unknown beyond being impressively foul language.

Silverpike - Tairen expression meaning a swarm of small troubles that together create one big one, can mean persistent, immediate trouble ("Samara's a school of silverpike around a chunk of bloody meat").

Summer ham - Coarse and slightly obscure insult.

Thieving fisher-bird - Tairen expression for a sneaky thief ("And burn the thieving fisher-bird, "had her flapping like a fisher-bird whose catch had been stolen,"[10] "a temper in you like a fisher-bird with a bone in its throat,""that fool girl has less brains than a fisher-bird").

Treekillers - Aiel epithet for Cairhienin.

Witches/Tar Valon witches - Epithet used to refer to Aes Sedai, especially common among Whitecloaks.

Wooden-headed buffoon - An idiot.

Woolhead - Stupid or dense person; used extensively, wool-headed used just as frequently, often as a "wool-headed fool"or "wool-headed idiot,"referring to an idiot mistake[64][65] or just a "wool-headed man."

I lost interest in the books when Jordan kept repeating how the dice spun in Mat's mind, and Rand was distraught over those who died in his name, and how it usually took 300+ pages for anyone to do anything in the damned books...  I mean, jeez, Jordan had a good idea but a shitty editor!  That editor ought to be hung, drawn and quartered for putting everyone who read the books through all that!

Sure.  It's a fantasy construct, after all...except that he filled his story with warrior kings.

Thank goodness I wasn't the only one who felt like that. SO kept hyping up the books, so I slogged through the series and told him that he had horrible taste in books.

I LOVE the Kushiel series by Carey.

SoT was great but jesus h christ, he kept dragging it out. Hell, he wrote one set in our world that was a crossover.

I haven't read anything of hers. Guess I will look her up at the library.

Mistborn was GREAT. Loved the "science" of the magic. I need to try The Stormlight Archive.

Same here. Oh I was so angry.

And he totally got me too.



"No...



No, no, no...



Don't you...



Oh you dirty mother fucker!"



 

Same here. I was so angry I yelled and almost woke up my kids. I finished the last one in the middle of the night. I also cried.

I almost swore off the rest of his stuff over it.



Stormlight is redeeming him though.



Elantris was good too.



 

You also have to read all of his stuff with the understanding that it's all in the same universe.  In fact there are about 4 people who are in each and every book he produces, and the last line of the last Stormlight book sent chills up my spine because there is an object that appears from another story that was a....dangerous object.  No spoilers, sorry.

Anyway, re-read all of his books when you can and pay attention to little insignificant things with obscure characters that simply don't seem to fit right.  It's pretty cool.

I'm not knocking his skill as a storyteller.



He's going to the special hell for what he did at the end of Mistborn though.



 

I was a little upset about that too, but after a while I actually really appreciated the dramatic difference between the end of that book and every other book I've read.  Not predictable, yet met all of the foreshadowing that was played out all along.  It was like the movie Sixth Sense, when you have to go back and re-look at the show to realize he was trying to tell you that all along, and you just wouldn't listen.

Without giving up too much, I think the ending of the WOT was handled the same way.  I was pretty stunned after the dust settled on that one.

I'm not sure any of my random musings are relevant.  Just coincidental that I was reading the series again as this thread came up.

That being said, the series is much more poorly written than I remember on my first reading, and I'm not even to the "bad" books yet.  (e,g, books 6+ in earnest, 5 is where it started to fall off for me).

The poor pacing was always a problem, but I hadn't noticed until now how often Jordan repeats phrases and exposition, apparently just for filler's sake.  Like he was getting paid by the word or something.  

this post is fierce--all stony planes and angles.

*tugs braid furiously*



 

arfcom turns as arfcom wills.  arfcom turns and ages come and pass leaving memories that fade to legend.  legend fades to myth, and even myth is forgotten when the age that gave it birth come again.  in one age, called the third age by some, an age yet to come, an age long past, a writer fucked off and vomited words instead of getting to the fucking point.  the writer was not editing, nor was he writing a new book, for the wheel has no beginning or end, but no one was surprised when he keeled over before the series was finished and brandon sanderson had to finish the job...

Well played, well played.

HOOOLY SHHHHHHHHHHHET


I am going to have a lot of ready based on all of these suggestions! Thanks guys!

holy crap!  how did i miss this post?

random thought, if anyone is still reading.

assume that balefire is a metaphor for nuclear weapons.  so given the discussion of balefire in WoT, what was jordan (a combat vet) saying about nuclear weapons?

epic

Ehh, never thought of it that way. It makes sense in one light in that it should never be used, anything hit by it is gone forever, etc. but it had also been used to undo an event that would have resulted in the Dark one winning (however unintentional that might have been)

i don't think nukes had anything to do with it.  seemed more like a commentary on how you can't change or try to edit history.  balefire burns that thread from the pattern, do that to too many threads and the whole weave falls apart.  there are no "do overs" in life,  every decision we make is the start of a new path.

I don't know, not feeling it.



I'll ponder it during my mowing musings today though.



 

To be fair, he probably did that because when you're writing a story that's as long and drawn out as the Wheel of Time, you have to expect a lot of people to pick up in the middle or skip around or just forget what it was they read about four months ago back in the first chapter.



 

I see what you are saying.

I also REALLY enjoyed Warbreaker. The construct for that "magic" was interesting, as was the backstory.

Sanderson is good at setting up foreshadowing if you pay attention but you will more than likely not know how the story will end.

We were checking out well turned calves and tight breeches?

*blushes furiously and denies basic human desires for 800 pages*

Another good one with a reasonable "science" of magic is The Death Gate Cycle by Weis and Hickman (who did a lot of DnD books in the Forgotten Realms world I think).  There's typically an appendix in the back with a short treatise on magic and how it works or something about the history of how the world became the way it is.  It's got a good overarching "how the hell did things get like this" mystery that runs from books 1 - 4 and wraps up quite nicely in books 5 - 7.

The first book I read that addressed the metaphysics of magic directly was Master of The Five Magics.



 

Not sure what you guys are yamering about but I am half way into book 4 and it just keeps getting better.

Books 1, 3, 4, 5, and 6 are the best as far as I'm concerned.  Then they really slow down until book 12 when Brandon Sanderson took over.  



 

Also, somebody should do a "Rand 2016" poster with the dragon banner.

Now that would be something.



 

Here you go, nerds.  87 hours in photoshop

Jordan shit on more interesting characters for a some harridans bitching about dresses and shit, oh and plotting to run rough shod over Rand (who I call betamax).

After five books it was just terminal literary diarrhea.

He's a red-head with grey eyes and one hand.  

That looks like it might be a wimpy version of what I see Lord Luc as.

Maybe Mazrim Taim.

The Golden Crane

How my I help you, Aes Sedai? You wish me to send a message for you via my pigeons? It will be my pleasure.? It was also wise to grant Aes Sedai any favors they asked, and a pigeon was a small favor.
A message to each merchant you correspond with. Tarmon Gai?don is coming soon.?

He shrugged uneasily. ?That is noting to do with me, Aes Sedai. I?m a merchant.? She was asking for a good many pigeons. He corresponded with merchants as far away as Shienar. ?But I will send your message.? He would, too, however many birds it required. Only stone blind idiots failed to keep promises to Aes Sedai. Besides which, he wanted rid of her and her talk of the Last Battle.

I googled those male magic users. That's what showed up.

He's a darkfriend!



 

Ten minutes with paint.net.







 

Actually that situation happens more than once. Rand at several points in the story says something very similar. Heck i think the first time i can recall off the top of my head is in book 6.  Let us not even get into Matt and the Aes Sedai.

You cannot have an open season on Aes Sedai. They are just simply to powerful from an outside perspective. Anyone with the clear knowledge of their weaknesses and limitations is either one or bonded to one. There are no effective imaginable ways and means for the average person to combat them. Nor does your average man every have a reason to. The only males who can rival them in power are systematically hunted down, or go crazy and kill themselves. Everyone else they are a group of mysterious women, who pay well, very often offer healing services to people in dire need, and unless you are in the business of running a country never likely to really deal with them.  Men would absolutely stand for a stable power structure. Especially if at the top is women who can kill you with their minds, who you might see once you life and that is when they cure you of terminal cancer and send you on your way.

IIRC the white tower contains less than 400 Aes Sedai and every country had various levels of relationships with Tar Valon. The borderlanders loved them. You have a 9 foot tall half man half bear with a huge sword and 20 buddies coming at you some woman starts tossing fireballs their direction and puts your buddies guts back in good as new you are going to thank your lucky stars whenever you see one.  

Interesting, but I think of Taim as more of a slimy salesman type with a really dark, dark side.  This guy looks like the devil, maybe Demandred?


If you were casting the motion picture, who would play Rand, Mat and Perrin?  I might pick Ewen MacGregor for Rand, but I can't see anyone playing Mat or Perrin.