"I'm woman, hear me roar!  I'm a strong independent women who don't need no man!  I can do anything a man can do!  The traditional model of domesticity is outdated, archaic, and puts down women!  I have no obligation to do anything for a man!!!!"  

"Now that we have kids, I'm quitting my job, you are obligated to take care of me!"

Often, you will hear and see these attitudes coming from the same woman.  

My first wife......card carrying man hater, EXCEPT when it came to benefiting from one economically.  Couldn't be bothered to keep a clean house, make any dinner, etc.  Bitched about me not helping....even though she quit her full time job and exchanged it for a part time job two days a week for a grand total of 15 hours a week.  She would have quit entirely, except when she decided to trade in her paid-off car that was in great shape for a brand new one....I told her that she would have to make the payments because I wouldn't pay for such a stupid move when we were trying to save up to buy a house.  

Funny story about that - the salesperson was a fellow 20-something girl.  A classmate of mine also worked at that dealership.  Later it was reported to me that my wife said "my husband really doesn't want me to buy it" and the sales girl closed on her by saying "You're not going to let your husband tell you what to do, are you?"    She bought the car.

A year later, she is only working enough to pay that car payment, and a farm comes up for sale near her parents.  Then she is begging me "we should buy it!!!  We need to buy it!!!!  Can we pleeeeeeeeese buy it?"

I made it happen, only to suffer through two years of being house-poor, and then getting fucked over by her in the divorce because she wouldn't sign it over to me.  Her boyfriend that she had been counting on moving into it with, couldn't hold a job, and she couldn't afford it by herself, yet she thought she was entitled to it.  In her words, "if I can't have it, nobody is gonna have it".

Modern American women - having their cake and eating it too since "no fault divorce".  Don't want to contribute anything except to the children, if that.  Lots of take, very little give.  There are still some great women out there.....we have a bunch in this forum.  But you have to really work to sort the wheat from the chaff thanks to the Tribalism that Feminism has become.  Thanks to tribalism, a large percentage of people can be totally fucked up, falsely labeling their positions as good things, gain assistance and validation from a complicit media.....Bam.....a tribe of fucked up people centered around race, sex, creed, religion, whatever.  And invariably, it's about ENTITLEMENT, and getting one over on another group.  

The entitlement runs really deep with some.  11 years later, I'm with my current (and totally awesome) wife, on our way to the courthouse for a hearing with her ex-husband to find him in contempt for stealing her retirement fund in their divorce, among other issues.  My cell phone rings, it's some attorney group representing a credit card company.  They introduce themselves and give me the "this is an attempt to collect a debt" spiel, then ask "when can we expect you to settle this $xxxxx obligation Mr. XXXXX?  I asked "who does this account belong to?"  It was my first ex-wife!  I asked "when was this account opened?"  Two years ago.  "Why are you calling me?"  GET THIS: "Sir, she listed you as the responsible party on the account".    After informing him that we divorced in 2003, he profusely apologised and promised I wouldn't be hearing from them again.  
 
Yeah, I made a horrible decision there, right?  By contrast, a buddy of mine lucked out...or he did it right, you pick.  Married his high school sweetheart.  They started dating Senior year of high school.  After high school he went to work in a printing plant and started playing music, she went to college and then law school.  They got married and eventually when she was named a partner at her firm (not long after having their second child) they decided that he should quit work and stay home with the kids.  He's still playing music and making a little money there.  They bought a huge, beautiful new home and she bought him a shop full of woodworking machines.  He's now making some good money making stuff in his shop while also taking care of the house and watching the kids.  He's a great cook too.  They are really happy and it works for them.  They are BOTH really great people....with flaws, but awesome people nonetheless.      

FPNI......you want "equality"   you're gonna take the bad with the good.

My wife makes a quarter of what I do, she could easily stay home.  However, she has good benefits (state) and what she makes is enough to keep all of our stuff and still eat.

Her job is our insurance policy, it means I can take some chances, it means that if I get outsourced or I am between contracts no one panics, it just means this years vacation is a car trip and cabin somewhere.

It's good that you checked, my friend recently got screwed because he didn't pay attention to this law.

By the way, I did live in Colorado for quite some time before moving back to Alabama.

Many women profess to want "equality" but they don't.  What they want is "everything".  IOW, they want to be financially taken care of, but they don't want to be obligated to return the favor.  They want to be the "fairer sex" when it is advantageous, but quickly ditch that when it's convenient.  Like the race baiters in Ferguson and Baltimore, "equality" has devolved into a nice sounding name for "favorable treatment, at someone else's expense", in this case, men.  

I was the one who brought up that my wife could stay home. It's good as long as they realize they aren't staying home because you're nice and letting them not work. It's because you expect them to take on raising the children and doing the house work.

Many women treat it like retirement. I've been getting on my wife's case for two years about cleaning. She's finally coming around but still has a lot to work on.

Equality baiter!!!


We should trademark that!

The very idea of becoming a dependent, of anyone, grates on my soul.

Interesting.  My wife is a housewife and she didn't forego getting an education.  I have female neighbors, some of whom work and some who are homemakers, and I'm not aware of any who forewent their education.

Oh, so unfair.

Life is hard isn't it?

I don't know many housewives that don't get an education. I think most people in general want an education. Sure, they can choose not to, but most people offered the choice choose to get an education.

That's what happened for my family. We had one child in daycare, I was working in Real Estate (not an agent) and my hours kept getting cut. Finally one day my husband told me I should go into work tomorrow and tell them I was going to cut my hours completely. After all the expenses you mentioned we were actually paying for me to have a job. We made some adjustments to our living situation (got rid of our second car, stopped going out to eat, going to movies, etc) and things are working out really well for us. We had our second child 3 years ago and when he starts school I'll go back to work part time.

I'm not convinced that the legal system doesn't influence people's expectations and choices.  A person who knows that a safety net is in place is more easily influenced to jump than if there were no safety net.

She doesn't want to, "have to deal with kids."  As far as I can tell, her plan is going exactly as she'd prefer it.  I wouldn't be surprised if the kids never become a priority and never come into their relationship.

We do it.  We wait for sales to buy a lot of things like clothes and certain groceries, my car is nothing to brag about, and we were the last in my family to get smartphones, but we budget and make do on a single income.  It can be done.  It just involves adjusting expectations about a lot of "wants".

Have your wife check out http://www.flylady.net/. It's been a huge help in keeping our house clean and clutter-free.

If for no other reason to have in the back pocket should the worst happen.  If I were to die tomorrow my life insurance would help my wife and kids live financially independent long enough for her to polish up her employable skills and re-enter the workforce without having to rush or worry.

Wife currently is SAHM, she works part time (in the salon I built into the house). She may do five or six clients a week and then nothing for two weeks. When all the kids are in school I expect her to pick up the schedule a little but only so she has something to keep her busy. This setup is perfect for her because she can easily bang out a thousand bucks a week only taking 5-6 people. I'm trying to convince her to only work one day a week and keep her clientele at a point where she can take a few new people and kick out the pain in the asses.

I actually had a similar conversation with my ex-wife. At that point we could easily have afforded the old house on my salary at the time. I said that if she were to quit her job and stay home, then it was my expectation that she cook and clean because I wasn't simply paying for her to sit on the couch all day.

She actually changed her mind after that. I remember it scaring me because I believed she really was planning on just sitting around all day watching TV.

My wife and I just had this conversation. Bottom line is we have debt we are paying off that accrued due to the economy, and we are about six months from outright owning our home. At the end of the day though, we don't have the extra cash to spend on guns, vacations, hobbies etc. Our life consists of school/work, home, some baseball or volleyball games for the kids. Our oldest will be out of high school in four years and it scares the hell out of us that she might not remember her childhood as "fun", and "fun" a lot of time these days requires money. All of this on top of keeping the lights on, eating, etc...

However, that's not the reason such decisions get made. Selfishness, lack of consideration, and lack of respect are the reasons. A safety net isn't going to make a loving, respectful, selfless relationship turn sour, or make the people people in those relationships suddenly start making unilateral decisions about the future of their family.

Permission, cute.

Before we had a baby my wife and I decided we wanted a stay at home parent.  We laid out a time table, looked at who could make more by then.  Ta-da, I work, she watches the little one.  Her job is harder and were happier for it.  



He has a right to his opinion, I have a right to mine.  Sounds like the problem is his wife is lazy without a "boss"

Which is why I specifically said, "influence."  Many decisions build up over time and big decisions are often a compilation of little ones.  The legal system is one factor.

Yes, selfishness is a common denominator among many human failings.

Is this a comment from a different thread?  Kids are important to me.  I am very thankful for my wife and children.  I believe the majority of people who skip out on children will regret their decision before the end of their life.

I'm addressing both you and NEASGNoMercy.  I can tell from your previous post that you appreciate and value kids.  I'm just pointing out that, from the information NEASGNoMercy posted, his girlfriend may not want kids at all.  A woman that wants kids usually doesn't agree to putting them off until "much later" than age 30...saying that she doesn't "want to deal with them."

My kids are 28, 27, and 18 (graduating high school in two weeks). What your kids will remember is the sacrifice you made for them, not the expensive "fun" things they didn't have. They remember the time you spent with them and the time the family spent together above anything else.

I wouldn't worry about the looking back on childhood as 'fun' or not.  The best parts I remember as fun were free.  Nobody should hate their childhood cause they didn't get to go to disney land for example.

I talked my wife in to not working so we could have another kid and she's happy with it but talks about wanting to go back to work once school starts.  It was a decision we made together, and if you haven't already talked about those expectations BEFORE marriage you're doing relationships wrong.

She didn't like it. She always finds one particular thing she doesn't like about stuff like that and throws the entire thing out.

 

Forget it.  He's rollin'

I am a stay at home husband, my wife and I love it.  I do the maintenance at her practice and cook and clean.  

Oh. Well the only other thing I've got is this.

http://www.justmommies.com/articles/home-organization-plan.php

blame the courts. she could, at any time, for any reason - divorce him and stay home while the STATE forces him to work, sacrificing everything.
she's doing him a favor by staying there and allowing him to only have to cover rent on one place . . . .

because men and women are equal, or something.

your story should be the poster child story for "the courts are broken and men are being raped." if the roles were reversed, a judge would ABSOLUTELY force you to pay alimony commensurate with your old salary and force you to get that job back.

I am shocked. SHOCKED the more men who get divorced don't just kill their ex's.  MOST that I know would be better off after 4 years of prison with a dead ex than they are now.

my best friends Dad has been paying alimony for 30 something years and my buddy's Mom has been living with the same guy that whole time. She won't marry him because she'd lose the alimony, and the new guy is pretty well off. they have a huge house on a golf course and both drive caddy's.

I am always angry with him because he goes to visit the Mom. I keep telling him that that money-grubbing whore should be cut off until she stops raping his Dad, but of course it's his family. . . .

anyway, so sorry about your story and what happened to you. women who cry about equality should be beaten with your court papers every time they open their cock-holster. funny how none of them ever seem to want to fix selective service either. can you tell that your story has me a bit hot ?

yep. common law.   can't even imagine how many men have been super shocked by this one.

it was refreshing to not hear anything about alimony or pensions in this story. thank god for that, at least.

Your buddy won't do what's right, because he benefits from mom and the money.  

Same reason our stepson keeps kissing his drug addict, abusive, unstable, thieving, refuses to support his own kids in ANY way, soon to be a convicted felon dad's ass.  Because the ONLY time the dad does anything to support either of the kids.....it's ONLY when the son goes to visit, and it's ONLY in the form of taking little Johnny wherever he wants to go, feeding him whatever he wants to eat, and buying him whatever toys/designer clothes/shoes/vids he wants....again only when he is visiting him.  He dumped their health insurance, and has not paid child support consistently at ALL in the three years I've been in the mix.  And now that dad is out on bail sitting on his ass with an ankle bracelet and no money, he's having second thoughts about going there for the summer this year.  Even though it was he who convinced his dad to fight us for it last year (which cost me $10k in attorney fees).  To be fair, it probably didn't take too much convincing, but fuckin A - 15 years old, works it out with his dad to fight us for an extra month of time there, costs me $10k, and the next summer he's not sure he wants to go.    I'm considering putting my foot down and telling wife that he's fucking GOING whether he "wants to" or not.....my mom raised me like that.  "You wanted it, you GOT IT".

brady bunch. and they had one car. yeah, not very realistic today.

geez. change that and you might as well shut this site down.

so you think that's OK, then ?

Yeah, keep dreaming, you won't retire until she does.

[know 4 guys still working because their wife is younger and every time they talk about retiring, their wife has a fit. If she has to work, then HE has to work.]

wow. what a story. it's crazy how much lawyers cost. what a nightmare.

I've got it minus the maid, could probably swing a live in third worlder if I wanted....