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Posted: 4/20/2015 6:52:12 PM EDT
[#1]
1. Check with an attorney.
We had a well here in Huntington Beach for many years. We paid for the water. I don't know if this was always the case but ever since the wife and I took ownership we paid twice a year. See #1 |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 6:55:23 PM EDT
[#2]
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You've been annexed = you're fooked. If you ever get hooked into city water I'd secretly keep the well live in case SHTF scenario. Can't say for sure without more details, but this is probably the answer. They charge you a monthly service fee to (at least in theory) cover their costs to keeping your little slice of the water system ready for the eventual day you want to hook to city water. If you ever want city water, you're probably on the hook for the costs to install and connect the later to your house as well. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 6:55:54 PM EDT
[#3]
Go research some Sovereign Citizen material.
I'm sure there's a way you can place fraudulent liens on their ass too. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 6:57:20 PM EDT
[#4]
City limits end at my lot line and my street is kinda' like an island amongst the city properties so I live in fear that one day I will receive a "Congratulations, you have been annexed into the city. You will now be paying for a new water pipe, sewer pipe, sidewalk, streetlights, etc."
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Posted: 4/20/2015 6:58:33 PM EDT
[#5]
Request that they send you written detailed proof of the exact service they are providing you for their fee or compensation.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 6:59:03 PM EDT
[#6]
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So is it a special tax? It doesn't sound like you're being billed for water service. It sounds more like a tax of some kind to pay for a treatment plant? Either way that's messed up if you're not eligible for water service. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What exactly are the billing you for? They are billing me for having a "parcel" within city limits, which they say means I have to help pay for their recent water project. There isn't even a pipe that comes onto my property, much less a curb stop or city water supply of any kind. My property is entirely self-contained for everything except electricity. So basically, they are telling me I have to pay for a service I do not receive or they will place a lien on my home.  So is it a special tax? It doesn't sound like you're being billed for water service. It sounds more like a tax of some kind to pay for a treatment plant? Either way that's messed up if you're not eligible for water service. Not a tax. It's a fee that was amended into the water ordinances. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:00:12 PM EDT
[#7]
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Not a tax. It's a fee that was amended into the water ordinances. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What exactly are the billing you for? They are billing me for having a "parcel" within city limits, which they say means I have to help pay for their recent water project. There isn't even a pipe that comes onto my property, much less a curb stop or city water supply of any kind. My property is entirely self-contained for everything except electricity. So basically, they are telling me I have to pay for a service I do not receive or they will place a lien on my home. So is it a special tax? It doesn't sound like you're being billed for water service. It sounds more like a tax of some kind to pay for a treatment plant? Either way that's messed up if you're not eligible for water service. Not a tax. It's a fee that was amended into the water ordinances. The fee probably has an end date then (like when the water treatment plant is paid off) |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:00:33 PM EDT
[#8]
$70 a month when you have a well... wow the man is fucking you pretty good. I live on a "private" rd so the town doesn't plow it and so I have to pay a hoa fee to cover the cost. bet your ass I still gotta pay the full amount of taxes.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:00:39 PM EDT
[#9]
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Request that they send you written detailed proof of the exact service they are providing you for their fee or compensation. They will most likely just send me another copy of the ordinance, with a little message saying "You have to pay or else 'cause ordinances!" |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:01:14 PM EDT
[#10]
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The fee probably has an end date then (like when the water treatment plant is paid off) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What exactly are the billing you for? They are billing me for having a "parcel" within city limits, which they say means I have to help pay for their recent water project. There isn't even a pipe that comes onto my property, much less a curb stop or city water supply of any kind. My property is entirely self-contained for everything except electricity. So basically, they are telling me I have to pay for a service I do not receive or they will place a lien on my home. So is it a special tax? It doesn't sound like you're being billed for water service. It sounds more like a tax of some kind to pay for a treatment plant? Either way that's messed up if you're not eligible for water service. Not a tax. It's a fee that was amended into the water ordinances. The fee probably has an end date then (like when the water treatment plant is paid off) Well, technically it does. Forty years from now. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:02:29 PM EDT
[#11]
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I like the way you think. 
As someone said above....a lien don't mean shit till you sell. Don't give them a fucking dime.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If I'm ever in that position, I'm suing everyone, for everything. Then, when The Man wins (because he always does), I'm cleaning out all my belongings, walking away, and declaring bankruptcy. Seven years later, I'll be just fine, and the city who annexed the property in order to steal my money and force me to pay for their expansion can go suck a fucking DICK. I like the way you think.
As someone said above....a lien don't mean shit till you sell. Don't give them a fucking dime. What happens when the lien reaches or exceeds the value of the property? |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:02:59 PM EDT
[#12]
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Don't know the answer, but it is shit like this that causes people to build Killdozers. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:04:04 PM EDT
[#13]
call a lawyer.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:05:01 PM EDT
[#14]
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$70 every month forever. But at least it includes the first 1000 gallons of city water for free! The fact that I don't have city water is apparently irrelevant to them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How are they calculating your bill without any kind of meter (or even connection?) How is it they can place a lien against your property for failing to pay a utility bill? Where do you live? They aren't calculating anything. $70 is the base rate to pay for their brand new water project that was just completed. $70 one time, or recurring fee? Were you annexed before the project was started, and did you have a vote on obligating funds for it? If no, this seems a "no taxation without representation" issue. Either way, you have to figure out if lawyering up is even worth it - as in how long would you have to pay for it to cost more than the lawyer fees, even assuming you win... and who owns the courts? $70 every month forever. But at least it includes the first 1000 gallons of city water for free! The fact that I don't have city water is apparently irrelevant to them. Go to the city and get your 1000 gallons and sell it. $1 per gal. Profit. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:06:22 PM EDT
[#15]
Call a lawyer.
Mike |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:07:20 PM EDT
[#16]
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Go to the city and get your 1000 gallons and sell it. $1 per gal. Profit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How are they calculating your bill without any kind of meter (or even connection?) How is it they can place a lien against your property for failing to pay a utility bill? Where do you live? They aren't calculating anything. $70 is the base rate to pay for their brand new water project that was just completed. $70 one time, or recurring fee? Were you annexed before the project was started, and did you have a vote on obligating funds for it? If no, this seems a "no taxation without representation" issue. Either way, you have to figure out if lawyering up is even worth it - as in how long would you have to pay for it to cost more than the lawyer fees, even assuming you win... and who owns the courts? $70 every month forever. But at least it includes the first 1000 gallons of city water for free! The fact that I don't have city water is apparently irrelevant to them. Go to the city and get your 1000 gallons and sell it. $1 per gal. Profit. No one living there will buy it for $1 a gallon because they're getting it for the same price as him. If he bottles it, crates it up, loads it into a truck and tries to sell it for a profit in some place hit by a hurricane or something, the government there will throw him in jail for price gouging. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:08:33 PM EDT
[#17]
They pull that crap around here, especially with sewer. The old sewer system in town is old and leaks, as in groundwater leaks into the sewer system. Of course digging up old sewer and replacing it is expensive and hard to bill for. So they annex what they can, add sewer trunk lines to handle the added load, and upgrade the turd plant to accomodate the increased load. Everyone in the annexed area get hit with the sewer development fees. If a sewer main is run into your area - hello special improvement district fees added to your property taxes. If your septic system fails, or you sell your home, you are mandated to connect to city sewer if there is a main line to access.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:12:34 PM EDT
[#18]
You have no binding agreement with the city, right? Then it's gonna take a court order for you to comply with anything. Make it hard on them.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:12:42 PM EDT
[#19]
Go to the city and get your 1000 gallons and sell it. $1 per gal. Profit. Quote HistoryNo one living there will buy it for $1 a gallon because they're getting it for the same price as him. If he bottles it, crates it up, loads it into a truck and tries to sell it for a profit in some place hit by a hurricane or something, the government there will throw him in jail for price gouging. California needs water. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:12:42 PM EDT
[#20]
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Hook into city service, turn on the spigot into your yard, do not turn off...ever. This would be a bad idea if the sewer service is based on water use. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:18:50 PM EDT
[#21]
70/mo? Holy shit, is that Holy Water or at least laced with LSD?
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:20:35 PM EDT
[#22]
OP, where in the water ordinance does it say anything about non customers having any obligation? What obligation do you think you have? Do undeveloped or primitive buildings with no power have to pay electric? Have you been required to hook up (not sure this is even legal)? If you aren't required to hook up, then how do they justify you paying for a service you've never had?
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:22:53 PM EDT
[#23]
This is the America we now live in.
Do what we say and give us your money. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:25:28 PM EDT
[#24]
You are screwed. You were annexed so by default you now have to pay all the extra crap and follow the extra ordinances etc even though you shouldn't have to.
I suspect that water charges are something like $70 a month, plus a very small rate for the water used, so that MOST city residents are paying $75-90. You get charged $70 +0. It's legal, but I'd like to see laws written against this kind of BS. What generally happens is people use the 'majority' to steal from the 'minority'. Let's say there is a group of 60 people who want service X. They incorporate in 40 people who service X would be redundant for, or of not use. The town then votes, 60 for the service 40 for no service. Getting the service passes, and EVERYONE has to pitch in. A common issue around here is where a township (6 miles x 6 miles) will have 20-30 farm families on it. One area will become residential and 50 families will move into a square mile or two. They will then have enough votes to pass all sorts of laws, and will often link the amount each person pays not to how much of the service they get, but how many feet of road-front they have, which means the residential people pay almost nothing and the long time farm families end up footing almost the entire bill. This is why Democracy is the Tyranny of the Majority, and a Constitutional Republic, where laws check the power of the majority, are such a better option. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:26:00 PM EDT
[#25]
If you are set with a septic system then yes, lawyer up. If you dump to the city sewer system, they're going to charge you.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:27:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: So a nearby city which recently annexed an area that includes my house is now demanding that I pay for city water or they will place a lien against my property. The only problem is that I don't have city water service. I'm on a private well and always have been. The city knows this and they said "Don't care, you still have to pay because it's an ordinance that says even non-curb stop homes have an obligation to pay for city services." So Hive Lawyers, am I stuck paying an outrageous ($70/mo) Water bill for water that I don't even have or use? I have a family of five, two adults and three teenagers. We pay about $25 a month for city water, and we actually use city water. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:28:01 PM EDT
[#27]
Check your state law. Around here, you (a City) annex someone, you are required to make services available within some period of time. This doesn't mean that you won't still have to pay for the hookup, but I assume "make service available" was put into play to keep municipalities from doing land grabs without assuming a liability.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:28:45 PM EDT
[#28]
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What exactly are the billing you for? Schools that he may not send kids to. Roads that he may not drive on. Water system that he does not use. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:31:40 PM EDT
[#29]
I get to pay 20 extra bucks a month to help pay for a pump that broke that doesn't service my area
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:34:33 PM EDT
[#30]
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Schools that he may not send kids to. Roads that he may not drive on. Water system that he does not use. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What exactly are the billing you for? Schools that he may not send kids to. Roads that he may not drive on. Water system that he does not use. Those are TAXES, not FEES. This a fee for water service usage. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:41:32 PM EDT
[#31]
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Those are TAXES, not FEES. This a fee for water service usage. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What exactly are the billing you for? Schools that he may not send kids to. Roads that he may not drive on. Water system that he does not use. Those are TAXES, not FEES. This a fee for water service usage. It's protection money for them not putting a lien on his house, actually. Everything else is just window dressing. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:46:26 PM EDT
[#32]
Hook the well into the city supply and run the meter backwards.
Hey, it works with the electrical utilities 
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:53:32 PM EDT
[#33]
I pay $115 a MONTH for sewer; water is quarterly at $100.
Don't pay? Fuck liens, your shit goes up for sheriff's auction. Tiny town, forced hook ups, it blows. Oh yeah, and the fat disgusting whore was stealing money from people paying cash http://www.wfmz.com/news/news-regional-berks/police-ontelaunee-township-municipal-authority-employee-stole-nearly-100k/32470440 |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:54:55 PM EDT
[#34]
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They aren't calculating anything. $70 is the base rate to pay for their brand new water project that was just completed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How are they calculating your bill without any kind of meter (or even connection?) How is it they can place a lien against your property for failing to pay a utility bill? Where do you live? They aren't calculating anything. $70 is the base rate to pay for their brand new water project that was just completed. People locally signed petitions to get county water. My uncle signed up and basically killed the old wells on the homestead, my father who is still part of the heirship for the property about came to blows with him over the removing one of the wells and getting rid of the pumps for the other two. We kept the pumps and wells on our property and did not hook to the systems (because of the local base rate once a meter is installed), so far we have watched the water get interrupted on for all the people with county water three times, and boil orders at least twice. My dad rolls his eyes every time my uncle talks about how great the county water is. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:56:25 PM EDT
[#35]
Town outspent their means so they annexed more people/land to increase tax flow. Basically expanding their area of 'legal' theft.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:57:44 PM EDT
[#36]
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If I'm ever in that position, I'm suing everyone, for everything. Then, when The Man wins (because he always does), I'm cleaning out all my belongings, walking away, and declaring bankruptcy. Seven years later, I'll be just fine, and the city who annexed the property in order to steal my money and force me to pay for their expansion can go suck a fucking DICK. I'd subscribe to your newsletter. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:57:45 PM EDT
[#37]
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Hook the well into the city supply and run the meter backwards. Hey, it works with the electrical utilities If they find a private water supply connected to a municipal supply they will: Disconnect you Fine the ever lovin' fuck out of you |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 7:58:19 PM EDT
[#38]
Currently the minimum monthly fee is $70, next year who knows, the year after that...not so much.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:00:43 PM EDT
[#39]
You will lose. If you lawyer up, make it a joint effort with lots of your neighbors so it doesn't cost you as much.
Pissed me off so bad I sold the house and moved. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:00:56 PM EDT
[#40]
UPDATE: After checking some more, I discovered that the fee for parcels without hook-ups ("me") was enacted by a simple vote by the city commission. Everything that applies to curb stops ("everything else") is part of an ordinance.
So I'm wondering, can a city commission institute fees arbitrarily with a simple majority vote? If so, that's incredibly fucked up. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:02:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Basically sounds like they annexxed you so that they could shake you down. nice.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:03:32 PM EDT
[#42]
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How are they calculating your bill without any kind of meter (or even connection?) How is it they can place a lien against your property for failing to pay a utility bill? Where do you live? The way my water bill is calculated... I have a minimum bill which is like $45. This is the minimum that I pay if I never even turn on the faucet. It includes 3000 gallons of water, but no sewer. I pay about $3.50 per 1000 gallons of use and about the same for sewer. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:05:17 PM EDT
[#43]
NM? Better call Saul.
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:06:46 PM EDT
[#44]
OP, WHERE DO YOU LIVE??? |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:06:54 PM EDT
[#45]
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This would be a bad idea if the sewer service is based on water use. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hook into city service, turn on the spigot into your yard, do not turn off...ever. This would be a bad idea if the sewer service is based on water use. Use every drop that you are allotted as part of the $70 fee. Then use your own well water for the rest. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:06:57 PM EDT
[#46]
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Don't know the answer, but it is shit like this that causes people to build Killdozers. I dont condone it, but i understand it. Fuck. That. Shit. 
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:07:18 PM EDT
[#47]
I found out a long time ago, I pay for someone elses kids diapers, lunches, schooling, garbage I don't leave out, roads, I've never traveled or even heard of, police services, I have never used, a fire department I have never called...a 911 service that I have yet to use....and so on.
We ought to form a club or something |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:08:52 PM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:12:39 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How are they calculating your bill without any kind of meter (or even connection?) How is it they can place a lien against your property for failing to pay a utility bill? Where do you live? Probably a minimum use fee. You pay $70 whether you use water or not |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:13:18 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
UPDATE: After checking some more, I discovered that the fee for parcels without hook-ups ("me") was enacted by a simple vote by the city commission. Everything that applies to curb stops ("everything else") is part of an ordinance. So I'm wondering, can a city commission institute fees arbitrarily with a simple majority vote? If so, that's incredibly fucked up. Read the ordinances. Ours straight up says if any part of this ordinance is found unconstitutional it will not void the ordinance. |
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