My gf brother has BPD.

He stabbed a guy 2 days ago over a laptop. Nicked a kidney.

I think they are gonna keep him for a LOOOOONG time. This time.

The difference between a malfunctioning brain and a malformed brain.

It would appear that every ex wife has this, however my ex wife didn't/doesn't have this so I suspect there may be a few others out there.

Good boy.

WRT "resource drain", the difference between manic & borderline is the intensity level.  Hyper manics run at redline, while borderlines are lower on the scale, although more persistent.  The real fun is when a borderline is in the same room with another high-maintenance (non-borderline) DO, & feels compelled to "compete" for top-dog attention status.

So by this logic since I have BPD I am eventually going to attempt to kill someone?  

That dude has more going on than bpd.  Hes fucking insane.

Yes. A mix of BPD and NPD. Super long story short, you can`t win, or break even, they will not allow it, ever. If you have your heart set on being masochistic, find quicksand, jump in it and escape it everyday. That is what it`s like dealing with these people.

For those looking for a diagnosis on an internet thread, I'd recommend seeing a doc. I'm not trying to be rude. There just isn't enough information to go on. Anyone can get angry (even Jesus flipped a table over). People can be depressed or anxious for long periods of time for lots of reasons (job sucks, no friends, married the wrong person, etc.) and it doesn't mean they have a problem. Genetics seem to play a part according to the data but so does upbringing. It seems more likely that there are genetic predispositions but that there needs to be a sustained environmental context that triggers and then helps to mold the cognitions. Said differently, if you have a kid with someone with a mental disorder then get them out of that situation, if possible, then be the best damn parent you can be. I got lucky, my mom is an angle (at least she was to me when I was a kid). It is kind of on you now. You married a person with a problem, knowingly or unknowingly, and now it is time to man-up. Blaming the problems on the kid (if there are any) or kid's genetics doesn't do much. Kind of like when an alcoholic says they cannot stop drinking because it is genetic and no matter what they try they will always be an alcoholic.

For all those who are saying that there is no change, I don't totally agree but the chances of change are very small. The meds work (to some extent) and the people have to be willing to change (but even then it is just about a crap shoot). Beck's work is really good but one of the things he really fails to describe well is the fact that the biases in reasoning he describes are not explicit. People don't realize they are using biased logic. It is applied automatically and outside of conscious awareness. And for those of you dealing with these people, no, they really cannot see what they are doing is wrong (at least not in the situation, and maybe never). Most of what they are doing is ego protective. They are engaging in substantial defensive behaviors in order to protect their own self-esteem and self-views that they are actually good and well socialized people (like: I had to attack that person because they were about to attack me. If I hadn't defended myself I would have been harmed. -- places the blame on other individual, who was likely not about to attack, and let's the person think they were making good choices).  

When someone does finally realize that it might be them and not everyone else, then you've got a chance. At least for as long as they are are willing to work on it. But the biases in reasoning have been developed though years of applying them and generally have plenty of supporting data (as far as the individual is concerned). They have to work to not engage in those automatic processes and catch themselves using those automatic processes and then try to back out. Imagine if we swapped the gas and brake pedals in your car. You could probably eventually relearn which was which, but it would be difficult and you'd still occasionally mess up. But the worst would be in emergency situations when you needed to slam the brakes. That's the kind of thing we're dealing with. In highly evocative, stress inducing, emotionally laden situations that require quick processing they just can't react to their natural reactions to try to stop them via conscious processing in time. So they apply the same old shit.

I'm glad I don't work in a clinical setting where we were trying to change these things. I'd likely get so depressed from the lack of progress I'd probably end up on the other side.

Good points.  

 


1. IF Genetic are a factor-I believe that no one has yet documented spontaneously genetic changes , I mean due to adaptation as a result of trauma.  I believe this is what has happened in the brain.


2. properly stated.  The issue is "can the changed behaviors be generalized".  Most will say it is POSSIBLE with BPD but most do not get the right treatment.


3. this is why I have very little hope for healing or even adapted learned behaviors.  It is DEEP in the brain, I would say beyond PRE LINGUAL when the brain had to SORT emotional information into the schematic of the child.  If I handed an 18 month old baby a calculator ,the baby will have no idea what to do with it and SORT the new information as a toy rather than a tool.  Simplified of course. Any break from what the baby already knows is illogical and MUST be discarded to protect itself from mental anguish. I am reminded of the Nope, Nope, Nope.gif


 

The frustration level is astounding. It is worse when they slide to the anti-social side because the MR or psychotic patients need more attention sometimes. The BPD patients can get downright evil towards the others and it is hard to remain compassionate with them because they aren't cognitively limited or psychotic so your logical brain thinks they should understand these needs. The BPD patients can also "snap" and get pretty violent in these situations.

Our units swing to situations where we have a predominance of certain illnesses at any one time (mostly schizophrenia/schizoaffective, mostly manic, etc). The worst swings are when we have mostly BPD patients. It is draining. We have more injuries (not just from assaults, but all kinds), more resignations, more med errors, etc. It takes its toll on the units.

I am not violent in the least.  I was towards myself but not towards others.  Are you making the accusation all witg bpd are violent in nature?

I didn't get that from his post. BPDs can vent inward or outward or be physically harmless. BPDs are people so no 2 are the same. They just share certain behavior patterns.



 

This.  Dated one girl who turned out to have this.  Well it explained why she acted the way she did.  Only truly crazy girl I ever dated.  She is doing better now from what I know, but no way I would put myself through that again.  Medicine and counseling seemed to help her OP, but she still has issues.

Absolutely not! Some, however, will get so frustrated at lack of attention that they will lash outward instead of inward. There are instances where psychotic features will emerge too. Certainly not everyone suffering from BPD, but it does happen.

There are a lot of different flavors of borderline. From the kid that grew up being raped, to the person raised by sociopaths, to some that have just suffered from repeated deaths in the family, abandonments, etc. Everyone is different and everyone's expression of a given illness (be it physical or mental) is different.

No offense meant.

You are correct, he is a drug user as well.

You have to understand that there are "types" and degrees of personality disorders. The recent breakdown of personality disorders into clusters of traits does make some sense. Some people fit the bill of the old "borderline personality disorder" diagnosis to a T. Others only have some traits, maybe only barely. Others still might have some traits of histrionics, some of anti-socials, some of borderline, and even some from other clusters.

At their core, the "personality disorders" are mainly defensive mechanisms gone awry and become ingrained. My psych hospital has inpatient childrens units (down to 2.5 years!), adolescent, and adult units. I have literally watched some folks have borderline personalities created. They have spent so much time inpatient from a young age that you can see the traits form and solidify. Other possible underlying (formerly Axis I) mental illnesses can help create, or mold a personality disorder too. Someone with underlying anxiety will form differently than someone with profound depression, etc.

The counselor (phD) said that my soon to be ex-wife has it and attempted to refer her to a physician.

She refused to go. Things continually got worse.

See first sentence highlighted red portion.

This. The only woman I wanted to punch repeatedly in the face. Over and over. She was / is an evil person.

My SIL. Because of this, I no longer have a relationship with my brother, niece or nephew.  It got to be to much, they have nothing to do with anyone on our side of the family. It's been going on for so long I don't really even think about them that often... until someone brings something like this up.

When I'm asked if I have siblings, I say I have an older sister.

My mom has it, probably for her entire life. It was horrible dealing with her and her manipulating everyone into thinking she was the victim when she was the abuser. Luckily for me my mom now has severe dementia so that kind of overrides the BPD, I can actually stand being around her now. Best way to deal with them in to not deal with them at all. Wish I would have told her to fuck off many years ago. it has been hell on earth dealing with her especially when I let her live with me for a long time. If it is someone you are not married to run, if you are married to them get a divorce as they never really get better.

Nobody is talking about you personally.  

Nobody.

Nothing in this thread sounds fun.

Guess I have never met one.

Txl

Makes sense.

+1

I was just thinking that myself.



 

I had a mate who had a BPD client with an opioid addiction, epilepsy, red hair and was transitioning from female to male. Now that would have been one wild ride!
 

don't believe him..
we are...

shitttttttttttttttttttt

a trifecta plus 1.

This.

To amplify my "this", bpd is a catchall diagnosis for shit we can identify and fix, but can categorize.

Only for a few days out of each 28.

You guys are describing my ex-wife. She was raped by her older brother for years when she was a child. I was and am sure that is the source of her behavior.  The only thing I could count on is that she would hurt me and then try to make it my fault.

She is manageable as an ex, I don't take any of her shit at all, I have to be terse.

I would love to never see her again but unfortunately we have two children. The threat of rejection and abandonment are great behavior modifiers but only if you are in a position where you can't be hurt. Dominating her personality has been helpful.

She would do almost anything to be back with me, so she could hurt me again.

I've posted my MIL stories before.
Stay away OP.

We will have to pay the pallbearers at her funeral.,

I already was going to ask but this is a good place to do so-

Is BPD a heritable trait? (If that's the correct terminology).

Or is it learned/environmental/not connected to parental genes?

Could be both, I guess, if inherited susceptibility and upbringing both contribute.

I remember the good old days when we just called crazy people crazy.

We have such a smorgasbord now we have to try and categorize. These we are talking about can be high functioning  people, and it`s usually  late in the game before you figure it out. It helps to have a list of symptoms available for reference.

 

Classic symptom.

 

Seems to be both. It's a heritable trait that will lie dormant until brought out by some trauma.

 

I've got a question about someone i know.

This person has poor coping skills with negative emotion. Usually dealt with by denial. "My relationship is going perfect" "I'm not at a funeral" etc.


When faced with a disagreement, will twist the argument to be about anything other than the original disagreement. To the point of denying events happened.


Social anxiety.


Sound like anything? I keep getting this "somethings not right" feeling but can't put my finger on it.

Step father molestation for the ex/gf, which was never dealt with by the mother. Her life became an everyday search for validation of her victimization. It was a personal vendetta against her if the mailman was late delivering the mail. She`s a nurse which she actually hates, but gets a narcissistic feeding being a "martyr" for "thanklessly saving lives and dealing with patient deaths."

 

They are blameless, which makes them near impossible to treat. The misery and pain she caused makes it hard to pity her, but I do, from a (I don`t know or care where she is or what she`s doing) distance. You can`t even get "revenge" on someone like that, they love the attention even if it`s negative. That`s why I mentioned quicksand in my other post, the more you struggle the more stuck you get. You just have to get out and stay out.

Interesting stuff.

I think my second ex-wife was strongly HPD or BPD.  I hate you.....don't leave me!  That was the classic argument.  When she went hands on, I pulled the plug.  And yes, you can pick up those behaviors when you are subject to them, and it can take some work to untrain them too.  I had a great therapist off and on over the last five years who said "you can exhibit behaviors similar to a histrionic, or a borderline, or a narcissist.....without actually clinically being one".

I've been to plenty of therapy over the years, but one thing I do know is that I've always been open to examining my own behavior and learning ways to do things better.  I had a really shitty upbringing so I have had plenty to learn, and relearn.  Am I doing it wrong?  Show me how to handle it better.

Ex-wife, there was absolutely not a shred of self doubt, remorse, or anything to indicate that she ever felt she might be in the wrong somehow.  EVER.  Even in a counseling session.

My mom is BPD/NPD. She is also a hoarder.
My brothers and sisters and I have mostly ejected.
We will visit her every few years for about a day.

There is no way to deal with them because their reality has nothing to do with reality.

You my friend, are on the right track. Many who are not clinical don't do this and we ALL need to do this and really is preventive of most mental health issues.  True story. When we learn what is influencing our behaviors, we better can prevent distorted thinking errors that MOST mental health issues arise from.

 

It's a very common occurrence that family will abandon them, and for their own sanity. GD must realize that a person who is truly BPD will have severed and an overwhelming byproduct of alienation.  A so called "crazy" wife which most have is NOT BPD and is primarily due to sex differences in thinking and lack of effective communication. They could also be, and most likely be suffering from a mood disorder or hormonal changes.  

 

Funny, I used to say that my then-wife was only nice one weekend a month.

I swear I could get a PTSD diagnosis from my time with her.

Yes.  I dated one.  

You've got my number if you want to talk sometime.

ETA: The recommendations about this book are spot-on.  At one of my lowest moments, I was wandering a Barnes & Noble and saw it on a shelf.  I just sat and started reading.  I Hate You, Don't Leave Me

Mike

Updated the above.

Mike

My ex wife was BiPolar / Borderline.

Drug abuse problems and other issues.


She killed herself last year.

Damn that`s tough. Girl I mentioned in this thread came close. She posted something on FB insinuating she was going to. Cop friend of hers who was on duty saw it and raced to her house. After knocking with no response he went around back and looked over the privacy fence. He saw her standing in the rain holding a pistol.

He got her to let him in and found some suicide notes, one was to me, I still have it. Took her to psych ward, let her sign in voluntarily, she was out the next day. Found out one week later she was banging this married dude again.


I decided not to confront her but start being more and more absent. She had one more rage meltdown about how I was dirt a hundred different ways, but mostly for not being around much anymore. I told her what I knew, ignored all the predictable tricks she tried to pull to get me not leave her, in between blaming me for it all of course. Went and got my things off the porch, tossed her key under the mat and havn`t spoken to her since. I`m thankful everyday to be free of that.

BPD is a billable designation for "You're an asshole."

I thought they thought very B&W. Like someone was either wonderful or terrible.
But I don't know much about it.