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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:18:22 PM EDT
[#1]
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Funny, many LE on this site disagree with you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just get out of the fuckin' car, let them hold your pistol for a bit (you'll get it back - and you know it), take the fuckin' ticket, and be on your merry way. 
You're not going to win this one on the side of the road, and honestly? You're not "winning" anything even if they agree with you (and they won't). There's no need to ramp the dickhead level up to 11, when the officer is being over the top polite with you. Jesus H. Christ, I'm beginning to see why some people go through life not understanding why so much drama follows them around. Funny, many LE on this site disagree with you. Well guess what? I wouldn't have asked the guy to get out of his vehicle, or disarm him. But that's not the point. The only reason they didn't (legally) go full on felony stop on that guy and his passenger when he decided to be a YouTube star, was because they were extremely polite and level headed (and good on 'em) - quite unlike the driver being a dick and needlessly escalating a situation that didn't warrant it. Ask. Tell. Make. If it went to step 3, the video would have only served to exonerate the officers. Everybody wants to be a lawyer, until it's time to learn some lawyer-ass shit. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:18:55 PM EDT
[#2]
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An officer could also ASK. Or is being a dick and always ordering a way to make them feel superior? Yeah, not breaking the law or anything close, they can 'disarm' you because, fuck rights. There seems to be a minor disagreement but, most of the Fla people replying say that Fla has no rule to inform. If so, then the cop was being a dick, an uninformed one at that. Sure, the other guy was probably a dick too but he was only stopped for speeding, not for being a serial killer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Two more dip shits that think they know the law. An officer can order any all passengers in or out of a vehicle at anytime. And at this point in case law an officer can disarm anyone permit or not. Yeah, not breaking the law or anything close, they can 'disarm' you because, fuck rights. There seems to be a minor disagreement but, most of the Fla people replying say that Fla has no rule to inform. If so, then the cop was being a dick, an uninformed one at that. Sure, the other guy was probably a dick too but he was only stopped for speeding, not for being a serial killer. The Trooper "Asked" him twice to step out of the vehicle at first contact. 
I have no idea on FL law and duty to inform. Officer Philip Davis was shot in the face after stopping a CCW permit person for speedin. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:19:22 PM EDT
[#3]
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The part in bold I am 99% sure is untrue. I believe some states have a law stating that the office must have RS before disarming a subject. I don't have time to provide proof right this minute but I did some research on this years ago and unless things have changed, that is a fact. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Two more dip shits that think they know the law. An officer can order any all passengers in or out of a vehicle at anytime. And at this point in case law an officer can disarm anyone permit or not. The part in bold I am 99% sure is untrue. I believe some states have a law stating that the office must have RS before disarming a subject. I don't have time to provide proof right this minute but I did some research on this years ago and unless things have changed, that is a fact. It is true, but I think it is inconvenient for those who wish to assume greater power. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:19:25 PM EDT
[#4]
Driver broke the law by refusing to get out of the car. It is a lawful order and he filmed himself doing it.
If you are going to assert your rights, you had better be right. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/police-stops-when-pulled-over-30186.html Folks, if a cop instructs you to get out of your car, you have to get out of your car. He may use force to get you out of your car if you refuse. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:19:30 PM EDT
[#5]
I don't get his argument that because it's a dealer tag he doesn't have an insurance card. His argument that he got singled out and "the other cars were going the same speed" is
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:19:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well guess what? I wouldn't have asked the guy to get out of his vehicle, or disarm him. But that's not the point. The only reason they didn't (legally) go full on felony stop on that guy and his passenger when he decided to be a YouTube star, was because they were extremely polite and level headed (and good on 'em) - quite unlike the driver being a dick and needlessly escalating a situation that didn't warrant it. Ask. Tell. Make. If it went to step 3, the video would have only served to exonerate the officers. Everybody wants to be a lawyer, until it's time to learn some lawyer-ass shit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Just get out of the fuckin' car, let them hold your pistol for a bit (you'll get it back - and you know it), take the fuckin' ticket, and be on your merry way. You're not going to win this one on the side of the road, and honestly? You're not "winning" anything even if they agree with you (and they won't). There's no need to ramp the dickhead level up to 11, when the officer is being over the top polite with you. Jesus H. Christ, I'm beginning to see why some people go through life not understanding why so much drama follows them around. Funny, many LE on this site disagree with you. Well guess what? I wouldn't have asked the guy to get out of his vehicle, or disarm him. But that's not the point. The only reason they didn't (legally) go full on felony stop on that guy and his passenger when he decided to be a YouTube star, was because they were extremely polite and level headed (and good on 'em) - quite unlike the driver being a dick and needlessly escalating a situation that didn't warrant it. Ask. Tell. Make. If it went to step 3, the video would have only served to exonerate the officers. Everybody wants to be a lawyer, until it's time to learn some lawyer-ass shit.  |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:21:04 PM EDT
[#7]
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So? I do that on every traffic stop I conduct.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Notice the white cop that had his hand on his gun? He had the "hood" flipped down on his holster ready to draw. So? I do that on every traffic stop I conduct.... I had my hand on my gun for almost every stop too. We didn't have holsters with the hood though and it wasn't unsnapped. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:21:14 PM EDT
[#8]
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The part in bold I am 99% sure is untrue. I believe some states have a law stating that the office must have RS before disarming a subject. I don't have time to provide proof right this minute but I did some research on this years ago and unless things have changed, that is a fact. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Two more dip shits that think they know the law. An officer can order any all passengers in or out of a vehicle at anytime. And at this point in case law an officer can disarm anyone permit or not. The part in bold I am 99% sure is untrue. I believe some states have a law stating that the office must have RS before disarming a subject. I don't have time to provide proof right this minute but I did some research on this years ago and unless things have changed, that is a fact. There might be some state law but on federal level it is the law of the land. Now GA has state court ruling that an officer cannot seize and run serial numbers as a matter of routine absent any real belief the firearms might be stolen. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:22:02 PM EDT
[#9]
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Driver broke the law by refusing to get out of the car. It is a lawful order and he filmed himself doing it. If you are going to assert your rights, you had better be right. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/police-stops-when-pulled-over-30186.html Folks, if a cop instructs you to get out of your car, you have to get out of your car. He may use force to get you out of your car if you refuse. He asked the driver to get out of the car after he heard the word "gun" If the officer is too scared to deal with CCW holders, perhaps he should apply for Walmart loss prevention. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:22:34 PM EDT
[#10]
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Agreed. Don't fuck with the hood until you're drawing. All one movement. Plus, you're 100x more likely to get into a fight as opposed to a gunfight, and when you do, bye bye pistol. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Notice the white cop that had his hand on his gun? He had the "hood" flipped down on his holster ready to draw. I noticed that also. Set up for failure. Agreed. Don't fuck with the hood until you're drawing. All one movement. Plus, you're 100x more likely to get into a fight as opposed to a gunfight, and when you do, bye bye pistol. Exactly. Do the same draw stroke and retention defeats every time. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:24:26 PM EDT
[#11]
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Driver broke the law by refusing to get out of the car. It is a lawful order and he filmed himself doing it. If you are going to assert your rights, you had better be right. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/police-stops-when-pulled-over-30186.html Folks, if a cop instructs you to get out of your car, you have to get out of your car. He may use force to get you out of your car if you refuse. Do you guys remember the Veitnam vet that was just executed for killing a Georgia cop during a traffic stop? Not saying that CHL holders are evil like him but the LEO doesn't know you or your intentions and just wants a peaceful resolution. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vietnam-veteran-convicted-in-cop-shooting-executed-in-georgia/ |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:24:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Are they really that stupid?
Isolated incident. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:24:50 PM EDT
[#13]
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I had my hand on my gun for almost every stop too. We didn't have holsters with the hood though and it wasn't unsnapped. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Notice the white cop that had his hand on his gun? He had the "hood" flipped down on his holster ready to draw. So? I do that on every traffic stop I conduct.... I had my hand on my gun for almost every stop too. We didn't have holsters with the hood though and it wasn't unsnapped. 
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:25:03 PM EDT
[#14]
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And this is why you should never mention you have a concealed firearm during a routine stop. It's none of their business. not sure if they saw it, but the officer did ask, and in Florida it is law to inform if asked. not sure what the charge is if you get caught lying about not having one. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:25:24 PM EDT
[#15]
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He asked the driver to get out of the car after he heard the word "gun" If the officer is too scared to deal with CCW holders, perhaps he should apply for Walmart loss prevention. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Driver broke the law by refusing to get out of the car. It is a lawful order and he filmed himself doing it. If you are going to assert your rights, you had better be right. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/police-stops-when-pulled-over-30186.html Folks, if a cop instructs you to get out of your car, you have to get out of your car. He may use force to get you out of your car if you refuse. He asked the driver to get out of the car after he heard the word "gun" If the officer is too scared to deal with CCW holders, perhaps he should apply for Walmart loss prevention. Your opinion doesnt change the law. Even if you are right. The guy broke the law, and filmed it. Again, if you are going to assert your rights, you had better be right. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:25:56 PM EDT
[#16]
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So? I do that on every traffic stop I conduct... once I make contact with the driver, the hood is flipped back up (usually). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Notice the white cop that had his hand on his gun? He had the "hood" flipped down on his holster ready to draw. So? I do that on every traffic stop I conduct... once I make contact with the driver, the hood is flipped back up (usually). If shit goes down, it will be A)NOT when you expect it, and B)You will do what have trained yourself to do. In other words, there is a good chance you will attempt to draw without activating the hood, because you have inculcated yourself that the hood will be down when something goes down. Except this time, it won't be. Not to mention, someone with some training of their own could theoretically get inside your OODA loop and disarm you....and with that hood down it's a LOT easier. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:27:44 PM EDT
[#17]
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Your opinion doesnt change the law. Even if you are right. The guy broke the law, and filmed it. Again, if you are going to assert your rights, you had better be right. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Driver broke the law by refusing to get out of the car. It is a lawful order and he filmed himself doing it. If you are going to assert your rights, you had better be right. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/police-stops-when-pulled-over-30186.html Folks, if a cop instructs you to get out of your car, you have to get out of your car. He may use force to get you out of your car if you refuse. He asked the driver to get out of the car after he heard the word "gun" If the officer is too scared to deal with CCW holders, perhaps he should apply for Walmart loss prevention. Your opinion doesnt change the law. Even if you are right. The guy broke the law, and filmed it. Again, if you are going to assert your rights, you had better be right. I guess we will have to disagree on who broke the law. I'll stick with the second and fourth amendment. As written. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:29:32 PM EDT
[#18]
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Do you guys remember the Veitnam vet that was just executed for killing a Georgia cop during a traffic stop? Not saying that CHL holders are evil like him but the LEO doesn't know you or your intentions and just wants a peaceful resolution. any resolution that keeps him safe and gets him home to his family alive and in one piece, no matter what that means for the dirtbags he has to interact with all day on his shift. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vietnam-veteran-convicted-in-cop-shooting-executed-in-georgia/ Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Driver broke the law by refusing to get out of the car. It is a lawful order and he filmed himself doing it. If you are going to assert your rights, you had better be right. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/police-stops-when-pulled-over-30186.html Folks, if a cop instructs you to get out of your car, you have to get out of your car. He may use force to get you out of your car if you refuse. Do you guys remember the Veitnam vet that was just executed for killing a Georgia cop during a traffic stop? Not saying that CHL holders are evil like him but the LEO doesn't know you or your intentions and just wants a peaceful resolution. any resolution that keeps him safe and gets him home to his family alive and in one piece, no matter what that means for the dirtbags he has to interact with all day on his shift. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vietnam-veteran-convicted-in-cop-shooting-executed-in-georgia/ Fixed it for you........... I saw a group of dumb fucks in the video...some with uniforms and some without.
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:30:29 PM EDT
[#19]
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I guess we will have to disagree on who broke the law. I'll stick with the second and fourth amendment. As written. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Driver broke the law by refusing to get out of the car. It is a lawful order and he filmed himself doing it. If you are going to assert your rights, you had better be right. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/police-stops-when-pulled-over-30186.html Folks, if a cop instructs you to get out of your car, you have to get out of your car. He may use force to get you out of your car if you refuse. He asked the driver to get out of the car after he heard the word "gun" If the officer is too scared to deal with CCW holders, perhaps he should apply for Walmart loss prevention. Your opinion doesnt change the law. Even if you are right. The guy broke the law, and filmed it. Again, if you are going to assert your rights, you had better be right. I guess we will have to disagree on who broke the law. I'll stick with the second and fourth amendment. As written. You cant opinion your way past the law. There is no agree to disagree. You are wrong. Again, even if you should be right. The cop could have taken him to jail and it would have been a good charge. Being instructed to step out of the car is a lawful order. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:31:08 PM EDT
[#20]
Meh. Last time I was stopped for doing something stupid, yes I deserved it, I presented my CCW with my DL. Deputy ordered me out of the car, took my pistols and spare mags with my DL and CCW back to the cruiser, probably ran me six ways from Sunday. I had a smoke while I waited.
Deputy returned with a ticket for me being stupid, gave me back my guns and now empty magazines and a couple handsful of ammo, then told me to stop being a dipshit and don't lubricate my magazines 'cause shit will get stuck in the oil and jam them. Gawddam JBT. Whoddathunkit, don't act like a used tampon and you won't be treated like one. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:31:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Not something I would do but the cop has a right to ask for it. As a CCW'er he should have known this.
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:32:20 PM EDT
[#22]
Dumbass driver! Keep your mouth shut about the guns. Problem solved.
No duty to inform in Florida, ever. You do have to get out when told. Guys are lucky the FHP bent over backward to accommodate his douchbaggery and did not spray/Taser them and drag the out and then arrest for obstruction. 
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:32:44 PM EDT
[#23]
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So? I do that on every traffic stop I conduct... once I make contact with the driver, the hood is flipped back up (usually). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Notice the white cop that had his hand on his gun? He had the "hood" flipped down on his holster ready to draw. So? I do that on every traffic stop I conduct... once I make contact with the driver, the hood is flipped back up (usually). Bro...that is bad form and setting you up for failure one day. Defeating the retention devices should be memory ingrained. I feel that way about a single snap holster or some LVL 3 rig. I've seen officers weapons go spilling out during a fight because they defeated the retention device. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:34:02 PM EDT
[#24]
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You cant opinion your way past the law. There is no agree to disagree. You are wrong. Again, even if you should be right. The cop could have taken him to jail and it would have been a good charge. Being instructed to step out of the car is a lawful order. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Driver broke the law by refusing to get out of the car. It is a lawful order and he filmed himself doing it. If you are going to assert your rights, you had better be right. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/police-stops-when-pulled-over-30186.html Folks, if a cop instructs you to get out of your car, you have to get out of your car. He may use force to get you out of your car if you refuse. He asked the driver to get out of the car after he heard the word "gun" If the officer is too scared to deal with CCW holders, perhaps he should apply for Walmart loss prevention. Your opinion doesnt change the law. Even if you are right. The guy broke the law, and filmed it. Again, if you are going to assert your rights, you had better be right. I guess we will have to disagree on who broke the law. I'll stick with the second and fourth amendment. As written. You cant opinion your way past the law. There is no agree to disagree. You are wrong. Again, even if you should be right. The cop could have taken him to jail and it would have been a good charge. Being instructed to step out of the car is a lawful order. And we will agree to disagree on if we should obey unlawful laws.
I know what you're saying. But the laws are bad laws, and I'm not going to throw stones at people when they disobey them. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:34:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Stop answering their questions folks.
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:34:30 PM EDT
[#26]
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Do you guys remember the Veitnam vet that was just executed for killing a Georgia cop during a traffic stop? Not saying that CHL holders are evil like him but the LEO doesn't know you or your intentions and just wants a peaceful resolution. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vietnam-veteran-convicted-in-cop-shooting-executed-in-georgia/ Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Driver broke the law by refusing to get out of the car. It is a lawful order and he filmed himself doing it. If you are going to assert your rights, you had better be right. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/police-stops-when-pulled-over-30186.html Folks, if a cop instructs you to get out of your car, you have to get out of your car. He may use force to get you out of your car if you refuse. Do you guys remember the Veitnam vet that was just executed for killing a Georgia cop during a traffic stop? Not saying that CHL holders are evil like him but the LEO doesn't know you or your intentions and just wants a peaceful resolution. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/vietnam-veteran-convicted-in-cop-shooting-executed-in-georgia/ Do you remember the cops that shot at the random women delivering news papers? |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:34:48 PM EDT
[#27]
Going with cops on this one.
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:35:09 PM EDT
[#28]
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Bro...that is bad form and setting you up for failure one day. Defeating the retention devices should be memory ingrained. I feel that way about a single snap holster or some LVL 3 rig. I've seen officers weapons go spilling out during a fight because they defeated the retention device. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Notice the white cop that had his hand on his gun? He had the "hood" flipped down on his holster ready to draw. So? I do that on every traffic stop I conduct... once I make contact with the driver, the hood is flipped back up (usually). Bro...that is bad form and setting you up for failure one day. Defeating the retention devices should be memory ingrained. I feel that way about a single snap holster or some LVL 3 rig. I've seen officers weapons go spilling out during a fight because they defeated the retention device. Agreed. I see people do this on qualification. You should be just as fast and efficient with full retention if you train with it. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:35:13 PM EDT
[#29]
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not sure if they saw it, but the officer did ask, and in Florida it is law to inform if asked. not sure what the charge is if you get caught lying about not having one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And this is why you should never mention you have a concealed firearm during a routine stop. It's none of their business. not sure if they saw it, but the officer did ask, and in Florida it is law to inform if asked. not sure what the charge is if you get caught lying about not having one. Pretty sure the officer was looking at the CWP in the guys hand before he asked if there was a weapon. Speeder was being courteous informing the officer that he was armed. Officer turned it into a dick measuring contest that butthead was only too willing to oblige (of course the law always has the longer dick). |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:36:00 PM EDT
[#30]
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I guess we will have to disagree on who broke the law. I'll stick with the second and fourth amendment. As written. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Driver broke the law by refusing to get out of the car. It is a lawful order and he filmed himself doing it. If you are going to assert your rights, you had better be right. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/police-stops-when-pulled-over-30186.html Folks, if a cop instructs you to get out of your car, you have to get out of your car. He may use force to get you out of your car if you refuse. He asked the driver to get out of the car after he heard the word "gun" If the officer is too scared to deal with CCW holders, perhaps he should apply for Walmart loss prevention. Your opinion doesnt change the law. Even if you are right. The guy broke the law, and filmed it. Again, if you are going to assert your rights, you had better be right. I guess we will have to disagree on who broke the law. I'll stick with the second and fourth amendment. As written. You could ask who they swore the oath too....
But I agree with you..theres a piece of paper out there that trumps case law..course, cops DA's and judges will never admit it does.... 
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:36:39 PM EDT
[#31]
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Says Judges. And I have no chance in that fight. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I don't care much for it either, frankly, but that's how it works. Says who? That's the problem. It's a power the judiciary has given itself, and can only be remedied by the legislature acting in uniformity with the executive to overrule it by codifying it into law. The problem is, the judges can then rule that to be unconstitutional. It's like they've declared themselves to be kings and queens. When the president tries to do it with executive orders there is an uproar, when the judges act like tyrants we call it case law. Complete bullshit. And I have no chance in that fight. Thanks for making my point, it's a power they gave themselves, usurping the separation of powers. Case law is the very definition of tyranny. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:37:09 PM EDT
[#32]
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Meh. Last time I was stopped for doing something stupid, yes I deserved it, I presented my CCW with my DL. Deputy ordered me out of the car, took my pistols and spare mags with my DL and CCW back to the cruiser, probably ran me six ways from Sunday. I had a smoke while I waited. Deputy returned with a ticket for me being stupid, gave me back my guns and now empty magazines and a couple handsful of ammo, then told me to stop being a dipshit and don't lubricate my magazines 'cause shit will get stuck in the oil and jam them. Gawddam JBT. Whoddathunkit, don't act like a used tampon and you won't be treated like one. Cop taking your guns and running the serial numbers on a fishing expedition and then returning your guns with empty mags and a handful of loose ammo is being a douche.... |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:37:22 PM EDT
[#33]
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Great job! Not only is that a perfect translation of what I said, it perfectly echos what I meant! You're a wizard! Fucking drama up in here.
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"..............the right of the People to Keep and Bear arms, shall not be infringed, except in cases of interaction with an agent of the government, in which case The People temporarily lose the right to Bear said arms, in favor of the Agent's right to disarm The People in order to reduce perceived risk and increase the Agent's safety"............. Said no Founding Father, ever. Well, that certainly justifies any arbitrary violation of the Constitution you might envision. Congratulations. You're a wizard! Fucking drama up in here.
Wait a minute. Your response was "well GW did X". Was that not the some total of your rebuttal? Seems like a pretty arbitrary defense to me, with no discernible boundaries. Perhaps you might want to think your argument through a little more thoroughly next time. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:38:35 PM EDT
[#34]
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This started out as the first cp being genuinely concerned about his safety. Then it turned in to pissing match of "we're going to win because we're the SP no matter what." Yep. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:39:04 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryAnd we will agree to disagree on if we should obey unlawful laws.
I know what you're saying. But the laws are bad laws, and I'm not going to throw stones at people when they disobey them. Right or wrong, we all have choices to make. If you dont step out of the car, even if the cop could have done it a lot of other ways, even if the laws are bad....even if they drop the charges after you get yanked out of the car. The most you are going to end up with is a bunch of people online who agree with you. Even if you think you should be able to fuck a rattlesnake, doing so is not a good idea. We all have choices to make. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:41:15 PM EDT
[#36]
Slow kid won a badge
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:42:45 PM EDT
[#37]
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Still am working. Only now I run patrol division and I'd jump on my guys pulling crap like this...seriously. There are enough people out there deserving of our attention to get bogged down with one CPL guy who may or may not have a point. Run him, write the damned ticket and move on....But we have a bunch of good guys. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Honestly. Once there was additional officers on scene to continually observe the driver and his actions the original trooper should have just gone back, run the driver and issue the ticket. Even if its law in FL, having been LE for 20 years, sometimes there are other ways to accomplish the same goal rather than press the issue and create confrontation. Ding ding!!! Or he could have just unwadded his panties and written the ticket and been done with it. wow, but how would the driver know that he wasn't in charge? you have to make sure every command is obeyed! Easy, where were you LEO, state wise? that seems like good common sense. Did your department back you guys up when you used discretion? Still am working. Only now I run patrol division and I'd jump on my guys pulling crap like this...seriously. There are enough people out there deserving of our attention to get bogged down with one CPL guy who may or may not have a point. Run him, write the damned ticket and move on....But we have a bunch of good guys. I'd respectfully ask that you reevaluate the totality of what transpired, and more importantly, WHY it went down like it did. There was clear ill intent on the part of the driver to create conflict. Driver handed the Trooper his CC License from the start w/o there being a reason... he wanted the Trooper to ask about firearms so he could tell the Trooper no if asked to surrender the firearm(s) or get out of the vehicle... this was a clearly calculated move on the part of the driver. This was nothing more than a gun-rights tard baiting up a situation so it would go down just like it went down... the driver wanted a confrontation and got it. I've posted 1000+ times on tis site I generally DO NOT ask for people's firearms so spare me the retort... had this been one of my guy's/gal's traffic stops (I'm a road supervisor), driver would have been arrested for obstruction for failing to exit the vehicle when asked. Some supervisors may allow citizens to dictate the course of interaction, and I will admit there are times when that is prudent... but I would not have allowed it in this case... because it was a clear attempt to attract attention and create a confrontation... there was no reason to offer up the CC License in the beginning like the driver did. Like others have posted... you want to draw a line in the sand and make a point... you better be right or rich, or both. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:43:17 PM EDT
[#38]
Don't even have to tell them I'm carrying here, it'd be polite but not required.
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:44:40 PM EDT
[#39]
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And this is why you should never mention you have a concealed firearm during a routine stop. It's none of their business. as other have probably already posted...In some states it is the law to notify |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:45:08 PM EDT
[#40]
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I'd respectfully ask that you reevaluate the totality of what transpired, and more importantly, WHY it went down like it did. There was clear ill intent on the part of the driver to create conflict. Driver handed the Trooper his CC License from the start w/o there being a reason... he wanted the Trooper to ask about firearms so he could tell the Trooper no if asked to surrender the firearm(s) or get out of the vehicle... this was a clearly calculated move on the part of the driver. This was nothing more than a gun-rights tard baiting up a situation so it would go down just like it went down... the driver wanted a confrontation and got it. I've posted 1000+ times on tis site I generally DO NOT ask for people's firearms so spare me the retort... had this been one of my guy's/gal's traffic stops (I'm a road supervisor), driver would have been arrested for obstruction for failing to exit the vehicle when asked. Some supervisors may allow citizens to dictate the course of interaction, and I will admit there are times when that is prudent... but I would not have allowed it in this case... because it was a clear attempt to attract attention and create a confrontation... there was no reason to offer up the CC License in the beginning like the driver did. Like others have posted... you want to draw a line in the sand and make a point... you better be right or rich, or both. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Honestly. Once there was additional officers on scene to continually observe the driver and his actions the original trooper should have just gone back, run the driver and issue the ticket. Even if its law in FL, having been LE for 20 years, sometimes there are other ways to accomplish the same goal rather than press the issue and create confrontation. Ding ding!!! Or he could have just unwadded his panties and written the ticket and been done with it. wow, but how would the driver know that he wasn't in charge? you have to make sure every command is obeyed! Easy, where were you LEO, state wise? that seems like good common sense. Did your department back you guys up when you used discretion? Still am working. Only now I run patrol division and I'd jump on my guys pulling crap like this...seriously. There are enough people out there deserving of our attention to get bogged down with one CPL guy who may or may not have a point. Run him, write the damned ticket and move on....But we have a bunch of good guys. I'd respectfully ask that you reevaluate the totality of what transpired, and more importantly, WHY it went down like it did. There was clear ill intent on the part of the driver to create conflict. Driver handed the Trooper his CC License from the start w/o there being a reason... he wanted the Trooper to ask about firearms so he could tell the Trooper no if asked to surrender the firearm(s) or get out of the vehicle... this was a clearly calculated move on the part of the driver. This was nothing more than a gun-rights tard baiting up a situation so it would go down just like it went down... the driver wanted a confrontation and got it. I've posted 1000+ times on tis site I generally DO NOT ask for people's firearms so spare me the retort... had this been one of my guy's/gal's traffic stops (I'm a road supervisor), driver would have been arrested for obstruction for failing to exit the vehicle when asked. Some supervisors may allow citizens to dictate the course of interaction, and I will admit there are times when that is prudent... but I would not have allowed it in this case... because it was a clear attempt to attract attention and create a confrontation... there was no reason to offer up the CC License in the beginning like the driver did. Like others have posted... you want to draw a line in the sand and make a point... you better be right or rich, or both. I didn't realize they were teaching telepathy at the academy these days. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:46:33 PM EDT
[#41]
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Seizing a gun during a traffic stop for no other reason than to conclude a traffic violation investigation that in most states cannot lead to an arrest should be a 4th amendment violation. The "for your safety and mine" argument is fucking retarded. Yup |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:46:41 PM EDT
[#42]
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Outside of the major cities, many LE's are paid about as well as elementary school teachers. You get what you pay for. Our teachers pull about $80k/year. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:48:40 PM EDT
[#43]
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CHL holders? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wow! Officer safety? yeah, some people shoot cops CHL holders? Yes it happened in my state. The shooter's brother was a cop too. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:48:42 PM EDT
[#44]
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So? I do that on every traffic stop I conduct... once I make contact with the driver, the hood is flipped back up (usually). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Notice the white cop that had his hand on his gun? He had the "hood" flipped down on his holster ready to draw. So? I do that on every traffic stop I conduct... once I make contact with the driver, the hood is flipped back up (usually). Stop doing that (deactivating retention)... who ever showed you that needs a ball-kick... if you came up with it on your own, stop doing it. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:50:32 PM EDT
[#45]
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as other have probably already posted...In some states it is the law to notify Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And this is why you should never mention you have a concealed firearm during a routine stop. It's none of their business. as other have probably already posted...In some states it is the law to notify And if you are in one of those states then act accordingly, but it is not required in FL where this incident occurred, nor is it required in my state or most other states in the country. |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:50:45 PM EDT
[#46]
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And we will agree to disagree on if we should obey unlawful laws.
I know what you're saying. But the laws are bad laws, and I'm not going to throw stones at people when they disobey them. I'm pragmatic, and outcome-based. It's a probability thing. All laws (including the ones I vociferously disagree with - it's a looooong fuckin' list, and a lot of them are pretty chickenshit) are ultimately enforced and the end of a gun, depending on how important I think it is to assert my disagreement with them. Knowing that little fact, is what forms the basis of any strategy I have. These two knuckleheads in the video? Poor strategy. Really poor. They rolled the dice, and it wasn't snake eyes. They "won" (we're setting the bar pretty fookin' low, but I'll grant them a moral victory). Good for them. Me? I'm more risk averse. 
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:50:56 PM EDT
[#47]
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Our teachers pull about $80k/year. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Outside of the major cities, many LE's are paid about as well as elementary school teachers. You get what you pay for. Our teachers pull about $80k/year. I'm outside a large area... I've made on average 76K over the last three years... I don't think our teachers are that well paid but I could be wrong... 
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:51:31 PM EDT
[#48]
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Because its is established already There is nothing to debate Officers can secure firearms on traffic stops Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Seizing a gun during a traffic stop for no other reason than to conclude a traffic violation investigation that in most states cannot lead to an arrest should be a 4th amendment violation. The "for your safety and mine" argument is fucking retarded. Officers have the right to disarm the driver for the course of the stop The driver in the video is ridiculous for arguing and demanding a supervisor. he is ensuring he'll be sitting there for 30 minutes while the supervisor responds Not like we carry them around in our trunk Talk about predictability. Because its is established already There is nothing to debate Officers can secure firearms on traffic stops I've had them take the firearm, remove the ammo, and return the firearm without the ammo after writing the ticket. In OK the law requires you give an LEO notice if they pull you over. When I asked for the ammo, he told me I could pick it up at the PD the next morning. It wasn't there after the discussion I had with the chief of police the next day. Had I not had the County Commissioner and my State Senator call before I arrived, the chief probably wouldn't have given a damn and that officer would still be pulling that shit. That was 10 years ago. A year ago before my TKR I pulled over on I35 behind a car broken down to help an eldely couple. Their lower radiator hose had a hole in it. I was under the car duck taping the hole up when a female HP pulled in behind me. She asked if she could be of assistance and the old gentlemen told her to ask me. I was under the car when I told her we needed water to get them home and that I had a 9mm in my pocket. (just following the law). She told me to come out from under the car and to keep my hands in plain sight and away from my pockets. I couldn't fucking believe she was worried about officer safety. I put my hands behind my head like I was being arrested. She told me that wasn't necessary and to put my hands down. I told her to leave then I could get them the water but that I wasn't putting my hands down or moving until she left. I was worried about my safety while she was there and I told her so. I firmly believe because I carry a firearm the police consider me extremely dangerous and are trained that way from the get go. Every experience I have had with LEOs when they know I have a firearm has been very distasteful. I will follow the law if they initiate the contact but that is all.
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:52:14 PM EDT
[#49]
good thing they did not have a dog with them.
ok this driver is retarded no doubt about that. he is unable to articulate what his real problem is and sounds like a whiney bitch even if I somewhat agree with his sentiment. the no speaky cop is a whiney tool box as well . I think this is an outgrowth of the feelings are all important generation. the cops and everyone else should have some reasonable expectation of safety in a civilized society we all pay for it and are individually responsible for our own and societies safety. the" for officer safety" bullshit is about how the officer feels and the inability to articulate that feeling so whitewashing with "officer safety" your a sketchy dickhead , you look like the priest that tried to molest me is better than" officer safety" if its true . was the officer in real danger of being shot by a guy that just told him "I am armed here is my license" realistically no. the argument that you might wait till I return to my car then shoot me is fantasy at best. he might have shot you when you walked up to the car and did not so he has not shot you in 100% of your interactions so far. this guy is also demanding you call for backup and supervisors clearly trying to draw you in for a gunfight. so the public being uncomfortable with armed cops is crazy but the cops being afraid of armed citizens is reasonable? this whole thing is enforcing unwritten laws." I don't like you carrying a gun open or otherwise so ima fuq wit you about it by disarming you by force demands of i.d. serial number checks et all until it becomes more hassle than its worth to carry." if you are afraid of dogs, rednecks, black people, stupid people , assholes , old ladies , brown people or kids maybe being a police officer is not for you. maybe try sanitation or dairy queen. the longer this us and them routine goes the more of them become your real enemy. you cannot police Americans that no longer trust you or help you by general compliance with the law. we are all invested in this being better than it is now. 2 million cops are better suited to change than 350 million citizens |
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:52:30 PM EDT
[#50]
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"..............the right of the People to Keep and Bear arms, shall not be infringed, except in cases of interaction with an agent of the government, in which case The People temporarily lose the right to Bear said arms, in favor of the Agent's right to disarm The People in order to reduce perceived risk and increase the Agent's safety"............. Said no Founding Father, ever. Best response ever. Shut down the interwebz because no truer statement will ever be written. |
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