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Posted: 3/5/2015 12:00:22 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not being snarky, but seriously, you should start there. It's not that long or difficult to get through. Texas has many nuances to its laws, so I can't hold that against you, especially since you don't live here. I can, however, hold it against a TX police officer, who is expected to know and enforce the laws, and to abide by them himself. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Fair enough, I don't know Texas law well. I'm speaking in generalities regarding an OC stop. I haven't watched the video in this thread. Not being snarky, but seriously, you should start there. It's not that long or difficult to get through. Texas has many nuances to its laws, so I can't hold that against you, especially since you don't live here. I can, however, hold it against a TX police officer, who is expected to know and enforce the laws, and to abide by them himself. I'll try to watch it later tonight.  From what I read he sounds like a dick.  |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 12:01:19 AM EDT
[#2]
I'm on the officer's side with this. He started off the right way.....the video shows the guy taking off at a brisk pace after he was told nothing was going to happen, who wouldn't be suspicious?
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Posted: 3/5/2015 12:02:05 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep fine by me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This paragraph was right in the middle of your cite...... But how can you tell if an officer asking you to identify yourself has reasonable suspicion? Remember, police need reasonable suspicion to detain you. So one way to tell if they have reasonable suspicion is to determine if you’re free to go. You can do this by saying "Excuse me officer. Are you detaining me, or am I free to go?” If the officer says you’re free to go, leave immediately and don’t answer any more questions. This is precisely what the OC'er in the video did. Except that the officer decided he didn't really mean what he said, swung his car around into the guy's path, and got out with his own rifle in hand (and at the dreaded "low ready", no less  ).
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Posted: 3/5/2015 12:03:24 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm on the officer's side with this. He started off the right way.....the video shows the guy taking off at a brisk pace after he was told nothing was going to happen, who wouldn't be suspicious? Who would be dumb enough to stick around and chat after being told you're not being detained? |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 12:03:56 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is precisely what the OC'er in the video did. Except that the officer decided he didn't really mean what he said, swung his car around into the guy's path, and got out with his own rifle in hand (and at the dreaded "low ready", no less ).Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: This paragraph was right in the middle of your cite...... But how can you tell if an officer asking you to identify yourself has reasonable suspicion? Remember, police need reasonable suspicion to detain you. So one way to tell if they have reasonable suspicion is to determine if you’re free to go. You can do this by saying "Excuse me officer. Are you detaining me, or am I free to go?” If the officer says you’re free to go, leave immediately and don’t answer any more questions. This is precisely what the OC'er in the video did. Except that the officer decided he didn't really mean what he said, swung his car around into the guy's path, and got out with his own rifle in hand (and at the dreaded "low ready", no less ). |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 12:11:21 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm on the officer's side with this. He started off the right way.....the video shows the guy taking off at a brisk pace after he was told nothing was going to happen, who wouldn't be suspicious? Please articulate your suspicion. That is what a lawyer asks a cop on the witness stand when probable cause is being determined. If the cop says that the person walked away briskly after being told he was not being detained, the lawyer just made some easy money. The stupidest thing a cop can say is that he had a gut feeling. Again easy money for the lawyer. The only right answer the cop can give is to cite what law he thought was being broken and why a reasonable person would think that. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 12:16:00 AM EDT
[#7]
Let me state this again at about 14:33 the officer flat out admitted he did not think he had Probable cause to detain the man yet he still detained him. That is pretty damning.
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Posted: 3/5/2015 12:18:36 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A lot of General attacks against open carry people. About 20-30 people should be getting warnings or bans but I guess the mods are okay with it. Give me a break. 
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Posted: 3/5/2015 12:24:20 AM EDT
[#9]
I stopped watching at 15 mins.
Cop seems like a good guy, just got a little ahead of himself. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 12:28:13 AM EDT
[#10]
The cop needs a vacation. He was being a dick from the very start. The way the cop was talking to, or in essence yelling at the OC guy was very unprofessional. You don't talk down to people like that in a field interview. You get the most cooperation by talking as one adult to another adult in a respectful manner and tone. And the comment by the cop about it being his streets was a total dick move.
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Posted: 3/5/2015 12:30:36 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The cop needs a vacation. He was being a dick from the very start. The way the cop was talking to, or in essence yelling at the OC guy was very unprofessional. You don't talk down to people like that in a field interview. You get the most cooperation by talking as one adult to another adult in a respectful manner and tone. And the comment by the cop about it being his streets was a total dick move. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 12:30:51 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A lot of General attacks against open carry people. About 20-30 people should be getting warnings or bans but I guess the mods are okay with it. Give me a break. http://www.perpetualpageturner.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/41806-Emma-Stone-are-you-crying-gif-71rm.gif |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 12:49:13 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A lot of General attacks against open carry people. About 20-30 people should be getting warnings or bans but I guess the mods are okay with it. Give me a break. http://www.perpetualpageturner.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/41806-Emma-Stone-are-you-crying-gif-71rm.gif Only for you  |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 12:59:29 AM EDT
[#14]
I am all for open carrying, But I thought it was illegal in Tx?
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Posted: 3/5/2015 1:26:02 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am all for open carrying, But I thought it was illegal in Tx? To my knowledge rifles and shotguns are okay but handguns are not. http://www.texasgunlaws.org/texas-open-carry.htm |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 1:32:30 AM EDT
[#16]
Man these stupid fucks make me angry. They have no conception whatever of how society works. No tact. No social grace. No. fucking. clue. They will make people hate us, and they will make people hate our cause.I seriously think most of them must be high-functioning autistics.
For the record, I support open carry. I just can't stand it when these idiots go out into metropolitan areas with AR's strapped to their backs wearing crappy clothes and looking like they just escaped from the psych ward. Then when a cop tries to check out the situation they act like complete and utter dicks (and if anyone here is familiar with my views I am usually NOT on the cop's side). |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 1:57:16 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Man these stupid fucks make me angry. They have no conception whatever of how society works. No tact. No social grace. No. fucking. clue. They will make people hate us, and they will make people hate our cause.I seriously think most of them must be high-functioning autistics. For the record, I support open carry. I just can't stand it when these idiots go out into metropolitan areas with AR's strapped to their backs wearing crappy clothes and looking like they just escaped from the psych ward. Then when a cop tries to check out the situation they act like complete and utter dicks (and if anyone here is familiar with my views I am usually NOT on the cop's side). |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 2:19:07 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
what type of open carry do you support Texas only allows open carry of long guns Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Man these stupid fucks make me angry. They have no conception whatever of how society works. No tact. No social grace. No. fucking. clue. They will make people hate us, and they will make people hate our cause.I seriously think most of them must be high-functioning autistics. For the record, I support open carry. I just can't stand it when these idiots go out into metropolitan areas with AR's strapped to their backs wearing crappy clothes and looking like they just escaped from the psych ward. Then when a cop tries to check out the situation they act like complete and utter dicks (and if anyone here is familiar with my views I am usually NOT on the cop's side). Not looking like a douche in a kilt with an AR and a safari hat. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 2:21:02 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, open carry should not be permitted. It that what you mean? Just trying to clarify what ruining it for everyone means. If not please explain. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Open carry activists need to stop being idiots and ruining it for everyone. So, open carry should not be permitted. It that what you mean? Just trying to clarify what ruining it for everyone means. If not please explain. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 2:25:51 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not looking like a douche in a kilt with an AR and a safari hat. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Man these stupid fucks make me angry. They have no conception whatever of how society works. No tact. No social grace. No. fucking. clue. They will make people hate us, and they will make people hate our cause.I seriously think most of them must be high-functioning autistics. For the record, I support open carry. I just can't stand it when these idiots go out into metropolitan areas with AR's strapped to their backs wearing crappy clothes and looking like they just escaped from the psych ward. Then when a cop tries to check out the situation they act like complete and utter dicks (and if anyone here is familiar with my views I am usually NOT on the cop's side). Not looking like a douche in a kilt with an AR and a safari hat. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 2:27:06 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, I never said it shouldn't be permitted. I just see all these open carry activists pushing the limits. You have those guys with full rifles walking through coffee shops. Is it legal? Yes. Is it in poor taste? Yes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Open carry activists need to stop being idiots and ruining it for everyone. So, open carry should not be permitted. It that what you mean? Just trying to clarify what ruining it for everyone means. If not please explain. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 2:49:58 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So instead of giving an answer you give a pointed attack at a person, real clever. Even though this was not pointed at you you decided to answer. What is your answer to the original comment rather than a douche answer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Man these stupid fucks make me angry. They have no conception whatever of how society works. No tact. No social grace. No. fucking. clue. They will make people hate us, and they will make people hate our cause.I seriously think most of them must be high-functioning autistics. For the record, I support open carry. I just can't stand it when these idiots go out into metropolitan areas with AR's strapped to their backs wearing crappy clothes and looking like they just escaped from the psych ward. Then when a cop tries to check out the situation they act like complete and utter dicks (and if anyone here is familiar with my views I am usually NOT on the cop's side). Not looking like a douche in a kilt with an AR and a safari hat. No, actually that's exactly the answer. Whether you like it or not, society is ultimately responsible for the laws it supports. Were the sociological factors present during the penning of the Constitution different from what they were, the Constitution would be different from what it is. Society determines law (I am making no claim about natural rights, which are completely different altogether). Mob rule? Yep, albeit with some buffers. It's really quite simple. Soccer mom sees basement dude walking around with scary looking gun and calls the police. She doesn't know any better. She's soccer mom. Then soccer mom sees basement dude's Youtube video and thinks, "holy shit, that guy's a douche who probably has mental issues." Then soccer mom is conditioned, not by the evil, wicked media, but by basement guy who looks like he just broke out of the psych ward, to associate guns with seemingly unstable douche-bags. That's bad for us, since soccer mom is also voter mom, and her encounter with basement dude mostly likely just raised raised the probably that she will vote for someone who promises to "keep guns off of our kids' streets." Now, is soccer mom being rational? No, but that's entirely beside the point. It's completely irrelevant. As long as soccer mom is also voter mom, we just have to deal with it and try not to look like fucking douchebags. Am I being hyperbolic? No, honestly I don't think I am. We are, all of us, ambassadors for the civil rights movement (of the 2A type). When we look like complete fools, it makes our cause look foolish. It's as simple as that. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 3:15:37 AM EDT
[#23]
You guys living in the free states should take note what happened to us
in Ca when those idiots started hanging out at the beach and coffee shops with their AR15's and finally got open carry banned in this state. Yes they ruined it for everyone. It was perfectly legal in this state until they started having those large group meets solely to walk around with an AR strapped around your chest with nothing else to do, and yes it was scaring all the soccer moms and even some cops so a bill was introduced which easily got passed. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 3:26:48 AM EDT
[#24]
What do cops have to respond to? I had my car broke into and could see 5 other cars with there doors wide open on my street and they would not even send out an officer. There was a case in Madison Wisconsin where a lady called 911 on some OC people at a restaurant and the operator told the lady that OC was legal but the cops still tried to jam up the OC people with some BS charges. This video would not have existed if the COP had followed the law. He admits that he has nothing on the OC person and is trying his best to get something on the OC person who is actually following the law. Unfortunately the cop and many people here think that his following the law and expecting the cop to follow the law makes him a dick
 ETA> Madison 5 link http://www.ammoland.com/2011/07/wisconsin-carry-files-second-lawsuit-in-madison-5-culvers-incident/ |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 3:29:10 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You guys living in the free states should take note what happened to us in Ca when those idiots started hanging out at the beach and coffee shops with their AR15's and finally got open carry banned in this state. Yes they ruined it for everyone. It was perfectly legal in this state until they started having those large group meets solely to walk around with an AR strapped around your chest with nothing else to do, and yes it was scaring all the soccer moms and even some cops so a bill was introduced which easily got passed. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 3:43:06 AM EDT
[#26]
ITT: people who don't like Liberty.
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Posted: 3/5/2015 3:55:22 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I always love this argument. Dont use your rights or you might lose them. Guess what by not using them you already lost them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You guys living in the free states should take note what happened to us in Ca when those idiots started hanging out at the beach and coffee shops with their AR15's and finally got open carry banned in this state. Yes they ruined it for everyone. It was perfectly legal in this state until they started having those large group meets solely to walk around with an AR strapped around your chest with nothing else to do, and yes it was scaring all the soccer moms and even some cops so a bill was introduced which easily got passed. Yea I have no problem with using your rights but there's a time and place for it. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Is it proper to take your AR15 to a nice a steak house with your women and show off your gun in front of everyone? The promoters that kept putting these on were told repeatedly they were doing more harm then good. The way they were putting them on was just shoving it down every ones throat which is not cool in my opinion. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 4:02:00 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yea I have no problem with using your rights but there's a time and place for it. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Is it proper to take your AR15 to a nice a steak house with your women and show off your gun in front of everyone? The promoters that kept putting these on were told repeatedly they were doing more harm then good. The way they were putting them on was just shoving it down every ones throat which is not cool in my opinion. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You guys living in the free states should take note what happened to us in Ca when those idiots started hanging out at the beach and coffee shops with their AR15's and finally got open carry banned in this state. Yes they ruined it for everyone. It was perfectly legal in this state until they started having those large group meets solely to walk around with an AR strapped around your chest with nothing else to do, and yes it was scaring all the soccer moms and even some cops so a bill was introduced which easily got passed. Yea I have no problem with using your rights but there's a time and place for it. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Is it proper to take your AR15 to a nice a steak house with your women and show off your gun in front of everyone? The promoters that kept putting these on were told repeatedly they were doing more harm then good. The way they were putting them on was just shoving it down every ones throat which is not cool in my opinion. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 4:05:43 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yea I have no problem with using your rights but there's a time and place for it. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Is it proper to take your AR15 to a nice a steak house with your women and show off your gun in front of everyone? The promoters that kept putting these on were told repeatedly they were doing more harm then good. The way they were putting them on was just shoving it down every ones throat which is not cool in my opinion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You guys living in the free states should take note what happened to us in Ca when those idiots started hanging out at the beach and coffee shops with their AR15's and finally got open carry banned in this state. Yes they ruined it for everyone. It was perfectly legal in this state until they started having those large group meets solely to walk around with an AR strapped around your chest with nothing else to do, and yes it was scaring all the soccer moms and even some cops so a bill was introduced which easily got passed. Yea I have no problem with using your rights but there's a time and place for it. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Is it proper to take your AR15 to a nice a steak house with your women and show off your gun in front of everyone? The promoters that kept putting these on were told repeatedly they were doing more harm then good. The way they were putting them on was just shoving it down every ones throat which is not cool in my opinion. time and place for RIGHTS? lmao. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 4:07:58 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So out of curiosity other than OCing your rifle while hidden on your own property where do you think an acceptable time and place for it would be? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You guys living in the free states should take note what happened to us in Ca when those idiots started hanging out at the beach and coffee shops with their AR15's and finally got open carry banned in this state. Yes they ruined it for everyone. It was perfectly legal in this state until they started having those large group meets solely to walk around with an AR strapped around your chest with nothing else to do, and yes it was scaring all the soccer moms and even some cops so a bill was introduced which easily got passed. Yea I have no problem with using your rights but there's a time and place for it. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Is it proper to take your AR15 to a nice a steak house with your women and show off your gun in front of everyone? The promoters that kept putting these on were told repeatedly they were doing more harm then good. The way they were putting them on was just shoving it down every ones throat which is not cool in my opinion. I don't know. I have a saxophone, and I'm free to carry my saxophone with me wherever I want to, but it would look weird (and stupid) for me to bring it into a McDonalds. If you insist on bringing your AR-15 into a restaurant (if you really feel that a concealed G19 just isn't enough firepower), then dress like a respectable individual and don't act like a fucking child when people react to seeing something they don't usually see--something that is specifically designed to kill people. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 4:10:07 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not looking like a douche in a kilt with an AR and a safari hat. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Man these stupid fucks make me angry. They have no conception whatever of how society works. No tact. No social grace. No. fucking. clue. They will make people hate us, and they will make people hate our cause.I seriously think most of them must be high-functioning autistics. For the record, I support open carry. I just can't stand it when these idiots go out into metropolitan areas with AR's strapped to their backs wearing crappy clothes and looking like they just escaped from the psych ward. Then when a cop tries to check out the situation they act like complete and utter dicks (and if anyone here is familiar with my views I am usually NOT on the cop's side). Not looking like a douche in a kilt with an AR and a safari hat. So If I wear a business suit, and an AR slung, is that ok then? It's about fashion? Or is it too scary to think about citizens walking around with rifles in public? I think everyone here has been affected by the media, to an extent, including me. But I have realized the slow insidious message being put out in all forms of media, in our schools, in movies and TV series, blogs and newspapers. The message that guns are NOT ok. That they should NOT be seen in a gun rack in your truck, or slung over your shoulder. We have been told guns in public are scary again and again. And you believe it. The NRA and GOA are the only ones talking about all the lives that have been saved by some honest citizen carrying a gun in a public place. So even though we have the right, and the privilege, we are afraid of what others might think. We will be outcasts, fringe gun nuts, the brunt of jokes and criticism. People will call the police and report us because it's frightening. So we dare not do that thing. Is that close? If not please explain. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 4:12:37 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know. I have a saxophone, and I'm free to carry my saxophone with me wherever I want to, but it would look weird (and stupid) for me to bring it into a McDonalds. If you insist on bringing your AR-15 into a restaurant (if you really feel that a concealed G19 just isn't enough firepower), then dress like a respectable individual and don't act like a fucking child when people react to seeing something they don't usually see--something that is specifically designed to kill people. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You guys living in the free states should take note what happened to us in Ca when those idiots started hanging out at the beach and coffee shops with their AR15's and finally got open carry banned in this state. Yes they ruined it for everyone. It was perfectly legal in this state until they started having those large group meets solely to walk around with an AR strapped around your chest with nothing else to do, and yes it was scaring all the soccer moms and even some cops so a bill was introduced which easily got passed. Yea I have no problem with using your rights but there's a time and place for it. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Is it proper to take your AR15 to a nice a steak house with your women and show off your gun in front of everyone? The promoters that kept putting these on were told repeatedly they were doing more harm then good. The way they were putting them on was just shoving it down every ones throat which is not cool in my opinion. I don't know. I have a saxophone, and I'm free to carry my saxophone with me wherever I want to, but it would look weird (and stupid) for me to bring it into a McDonalds. If you insist on bringing your AR-15 into a restaurant (if you really feel that a concealed G19 just isn't enough firepower), then dress like a respectable individual and don't act like a fucking child when people react to seeing something they don't usually see--something that is specifically designed to kill people.  |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 4:13:32 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, I never said it shouldn't be permitted. I just see all these open carry activists pushing the limits. You have those guys with full rifles walking through coffee shops. Is it legal? Yes. Is it in poor taste? Yes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Open carry activists need to stop being idiots and ruining it for everyone. So, open carry should not be permitted. It that what you mean? Just trying to clarify what ruining it for everyone means. If not please explain. explain why? What is in good taste? I don't feel the need to carry often, but if I don't want to leave my $2500 HK93 in the car on the way back from a sand pit shoot, do I need to worry about the fashion police giving me a ticket while I pick up some coffee and a sandwich? |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 4:15:11 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yea I have no problem with using your rights but there's a time and place for it. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Is it proper to take your AR15 to a nice a steak house with your women and show off your gun in front of everyone? The promoters that kept putting these on were told repeatedly they were doing more harm then good. The way they were putting them on was just shoving it down every ones throat which is not cool in my opinion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You guys living in the free states should take note what happened to us in Ca when those idiots started hanging out at the beach and coffee shops with their AR15's and finally got open carry banned in this state. Yes they ruined it for everyone. It was perfectly legal in this state until they started having those large group meets solely to walk around with an AR strapped around your chest with nothing else to do, and yes it was scaring all the soccer moms and even some cops so a bill was introduced which easily got passed. Yea I have no problem with using your rights but there's a time and place for it. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Is it proper to take your AR15 to a nice a steak house with your women and show off your gun in front of everyone? The promoters that kept putting these on were told repeatedly they were doing more harm then good. The way they were putting them on was just shoving it down every ones throat which is not cool in my opinion. OK so I'll play. So when is the right time? Never? |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 4:16:13 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So out of curiosity other than OCing your rifle while hidden on your own property where do you think an acceptable time and place for it would be? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You guys living in the free states should take note what happened to us in Ca when those idiots started hanging out at the beach and coffee shops with their AR15's and finally got open carry banned in this state. Yes they ruined it for everyone. It was perfectly legal in this state until they started having those large group meets solely to walk around with an AR strapped around your chest with nothing else to do, and yes it was scaring all the soccer moms and even some cops so a bill was introduced which easily got passed. Yea I have no problem with using your rights but there's a time and place for it. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Is it proper to take your AR15 to a nice a steak house with your women and show off your gun in front of everyone? The promoters that kept putting these on were told repeatedly they were doing more harm then good. The way they were putting them on was just shoving it down every ones throat which is not cool in my opinion. I believe it's your god given right to carry where ever you want. I just think its dumb for some people to do the things they do to ruin it for everyone especially after being told by many gun owners they were doing more harm then good. Now we lost those rights. What I'm sayin is if these promoters start doing this in your states put a stop to it these people have an agenda and its not for the good. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 4:18:02 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
when people react to seeing something they don't usually see--something that is specifically designed to kill people. Ah...so that's it. Guns are only for killing - and that why we shouldn't OC them. We have heard that before. A Certain congress critter named Feinstein said it way before you. We should hide away our guns like dirty secrets in their cases and bags. locked in the trunk lest someone realize there are men and women with purpose made killing machines walking around. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 4:18:10 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All of them. Pick them all up. Quote HistoryQuoted: All of them. Pick them all up.  |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 4:20:20 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
[So oc is a right you can and should do as long as no one sees it The irony of the is profound.
Please read my comment again, as it is quite obvious that you spectacularly failed at grasping the point the first time around (it's not like I was writing in cryptic metaphors or using esoteric verbiage--pretty simple stuff really). |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 4:22:48 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ah...so that's it. Guns are only for killing - and that why we shouldn't OC them. We have heard that before. A Certain congress critter named Feinstein said it way before you. We should hide away our guns like dirty secrets in their cases and bags. locked in the trunk lest someone realize there are men and women with purpose made killing machines walking around. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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when people react to seeing something they don't usually see--something that is specifically designed to kill people. Ah...so that's it. Guns are only for killing - and that why we shouldn't OC them. We have heard that before. A Certain congress critter named Feinstein said it way before you. We should hide away our guns like dirty secrets in their cases and bags. locked in the trunk lest someone realize there are men and women with purpose made killing machines walking around. Yes, AR-15's were designed to kill people. Am I wrong on this 
And please stop putting words in my mouth. It's getting irritating. I do you the respect of responding to the things you write, not the things I pull out of my ass so I can build a bunch of straw men. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 4:27:28 AM EDT
[#40]
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Yes, AR-15's were designed to kill people. Am I wrong on this
And please stop putting words in my mouth. It's getting irritating. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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when people react to seeing something they don't usually see--something that is specifically designed to kill people. Ah...so that's it. Guns are only for killing - and that why we shouldn't OC them. We have heard that before. A Certain congress critter named Feinstein said it way before you. We should hide away our guns like dirty secrets in their cases and bags. locked in the trunk lest someone realize there are men and women with purpose made killing machines walking around. Yes, AR-15's were designed to kill people. Am I wrong on this
And please stop putting words in my mouth. It's getting irritating. So you are opposed to them being OC'd because they were designed to kill people? Just trying to get a handle on the sentiment. Pretty sure the second amendment wasn't referring to arms designed for sport. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 4:29:19 AM EDT
[#41]
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So you are opposed to them being OC'd because they were designed to kill people? Trying to get a handle on the sentiment. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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when people react to seeing something they don't usually see--something that is specifically designed to kill people. Ah...so that's it. Guns are only for killing - and that why we shouldn't OC them. We have heard that before. A Certain congress critter named Feinstein said it way before you. We should hide away our guns like dirty secrets in their cases and bags. locked in the trunk lest someone realize there are men and women with purpose made killing machines walking around. Yes, AR-15's were designed to kill people. Am I wrong on this
And please stop putting words in my mouth. It's getting irritating. So you are opposed to them being OC'd because they were designed to kill people? Trying to get a handle on the sentiment. No you're not. You're putting words in my mouth because your position is weak and you need to build a bunch of straw men to knock down so you can feel like you've won. Stop being dishonest about the things I say and/or imply and maybe we can have a conversation. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 4:31:46 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OK so I'll play. So when is the right time? Never? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You guys living in the free states should take note what happened to us in Ca when those idiots started hanging out at the beach and coffee shops with their AR15's and finally got open carry banned in this state. Yes they ruined it for everyone. It was perfectly legal in this state until they started having those large group meets solely to walk around with an AR strapped around your chest with nothing else to do, and yes it was scaring all the soccer moms and even some cops so a bill was introduced which easily got passed. Yea I have no problem with using your rights but there's a time and place for it. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Is it proper to take your AR15 to a nice a steak house with your women and show off your gun in front of everyone? The promoters that kept putting these on were told repeatedly they were doing more harm then good. The way they were putting them on was just shoving it down every ones throat which is not cool in my opinion. OK so I'll play. So when is the right time? Never? Well when open carry was legal in Ca for all the years I have lived here I never felt the need to strap my rifle on and walk around the neighborhood or take it to Home Depot to pick up some sprinklers. But if some people want to do it then its up to them I just think its lame to stand around pacing back and forth in front of Starbucks trying to get every ones attention.. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 4:34:21 AM EDT
[#43]
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No you're not. You're putting words in my mouth because your position is weak and you need to build a bunch of straw men to knock down so you can feel like you've won. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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when people react to seeing something they don't usually see--something that is specifically designed to kill people. Ah...so that's it. Guns are only for killing - and that why we shouldn't OC them. We have heard that before. A Certain congress critter named Feinstein said it way before you. We should hide away our guns like dirty secrets in their cases and bags. locked in the trunk lest someone realize there are men and women with purpose made killing machines walking around. Yes, AR-15's were designed to kill people. Am I wrong on this
And please stop putting words in my mouth. It's getting irritating. So you are opposed to them being OC'd because they were designed to kill people? Trying to get a handle on the sentiment. No you're not. You're putting words in my mouth because your position is weak and you need to build a bunch of straw men to knock down so you can feel like you've won. What position is weak, the position that people should be allowed to exercise their rights under the law? And who said I was talking about military weapons exclusively. What if I carry OC a 410 shotgun with modified choke and a 26" barrel. Was that designed for killing people? I know a lot of dove and quail that would disagree. 
Is that shotgun ok to OC, then, since it was never designed to be used on people? I really don't understand your argument. When is OC ok, when isn't it. Or is it never ok according to you. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 4:37:09 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well when open carry was legal in Ca for all the years I have lived here I never felt the need to strap my rifle on and walk around the neighborhood or take it to Home Depot to pick up some sprinklers. But if some people want to do it then its up to them I just think its lame to stand around pacing back and forth in front of Starbucks trying to get every ones attention.. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You guys living in the free states should take note what happened to us in Ca when those idiots started hanging out at the beach and coffee shops with their AR15's and finally got open carry banned in this state. Yes they ruined it for everyone. It was perfectly legal in this state until they started having those large group meets solely to walk around with an AR strapped around your chest with nothing else to do, and yes it was scaring all the soccer moms and even some cops so a bill was introduced which easily got passed. Yea I have no problem with using your rights but there's a time and place for it. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Is it proper to take your AR15 to a nice a steak house with your women and show off your gun in front of everyone? The promoters that kept putting these on were told repeatedly they were doing more harm then good. The way they were putting them on was just shoving it down every ones throat which is not cool in my opinion. OK so I'll play. So when is the right time? Never? Well when open carry was legal in Ca for all the years I have lived here I never felt the need to strap my rifle on and walk around the neighborhood or take it to Home Depot to pick up some sprinklers. But if some people want to do it then its up to them I just think its lame to stand around pacing back and forth in front of Starbucks trying to get every ones attention.. So what you are saying is that exercising the right gets it taken away? But if you don't, what's the point of having it? You sure it wasn't just electing politicians who are bent on taking away gun rights period that didn't cause the problem? I have never felt the need to carry a rifle to home depot either, but I won't criticize anyone who does. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 4:40:51 AM EDT
[#45]
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What position is weak, the position that people should be allowed to exercise their rights under the law? And who said I was talking about military weapons exclusively. What if I carry OC a 410 shotgun with modified choke and a 26" barrel. Was that designed for killing people? I know a lot of dove and quail that would disagree.
Is that shotgun ok to OC, then, since it was never design to be used on people? Then some random guy on the internet whispered to _DR "psssst, hey dude, I don't think that Bizzarolibe guy ever actually said that people shouldn't be allowed to OC..." |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 4:51:53 AM EDT
[#46]
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Then some random guy on the internet whispered to _DR "psssst, hey dude, I don't think that Bizzarolibe guy ever actually said that people shouldn't be allowed to OC..." Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What position is weak, the position that people should be allowed to exercise their rights under the law? And who said I was talking about military weapons exclusively. What if I carry OC a 410 shotgun with modified choke and a 26" barrel. Was that designed for killing people? I know a lot of dove and quail that would disagree.
Is that shotgun ok to OC, then, since it was never design to be used on people? Then some random guy on the internet whispered to _DR "psssst, hey dude, I don't think that Bizzarolibe guy ever actually said that people shouldn't be allowed to OC..." No, you didn't say people shouldn't be allowed to OC, but you seemed to be criticizing some of those who do. I apologize if I misinterpreted your statement. I just see a whole lot of posts this thread clearly expressing their disdain for those who would exercise their right to OC their longarm in public, and I find it somewhat disturbing to see on a gun forum. I would like to see so much of it that it's as common as seeing someone texting on an iPhone or Galaxy. I can remember a time when nobody would raise an eyebrow at someone walking though a hardware store with a shotgun slung over their shoulder. In fact most hardware stores sold shotguns. I was glad to see our local Gebos started carrying guns and ammo again last year after years of nothing but horse tack and hardware. If OC was more common it would be a non issue and we could all move on to better things than discussing whether or not we should OC in public or not. Like discussing whether 9mm is better than .45.
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Posted: 3/5/2015 4:58:21 AM EDT
[#47]
How easy it would be to snag one of those rifles.
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Posted: 3/5/2015 5:01:09 AM EDT
[#48]
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How easy it would be to snag one of those rifles.
http://freakoutnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/RaisingCanes3-1.jpg If the owner of that that Cain's had any kind of decency, he would provide some nice rifle racks for his customers to put them in.
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Posted: 3/5/2015 5:17:52 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, you didn't say people shouldn't be allowed to OC, but you seemed to be criticizing some of those who do. I apologize if I misinterpreted your statement. I just see a whole lot of posts this thread clearly expressing their disdain for those who would exercise their right to OC their longarm in public, and I find it somewhat disturbing to see on a gun forum. I would like to see so much of it that it's as common as seeing someone texting on an iPhone or Galaxy. I can remember a time when nobody would raise an eyebrow at someone walking though a hardware store with a shotgun slung over their shoulder. In fact most hardware stores sold shotguns. I was glad to see our local Gebos started carrying guns and ammo again last year after years of nothing but horse tack and hardware. If OC was more common it would be a non issue and we could all move on to better things than discussing whether or not we should OC in public or not. Like discussing whether 9mm is better than .45.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What position is weak, the position that people should be allowed to exercise their rights under the law? And who said I was talking about military weapons exclusively. What if I carry OC a 410 shotgun with modified choke and a 26" barrel. Was that designed for killing people? I know a lot of dove and quail that would disagree.
Is that shotgun ok to OC, then, since it was never design to be used on people? Then some random guy on the internet whispered to _DR "psssst, hey dude, I don't think that Bizzarolibe guy ever actually said that people shouldn't be allowed to OC..." No, you didn't say people shouldn't be allowed to OC, but you seemed to be criticizing some of those who do. I apologize if I misinterpreted your statement. I just see a whole lot of posts this thread clearly expressing their disdain for those who would exercise their right to OC their longarm in public, and I find it somewhat disturbing to see on a gun forum. I would like to see so much of it that it's as common as seeing someone texting on an iPhone or Galaxy. I can remember a time when nobody would raise an eyebrow at someone walking though a hardware store with a shotgun slung over their shoulder. In fact most hardware stores sold shotguns. I was glad to see our local Gebos started carrying guns and ammo again last year after years of nothing but horse tack and hardware. If OC was more common it would be a non issue and we could all move on to better things than discussing whether or not we should OC in public or not. Like discussing whether 9mm is better than .45.
And I sympathize with your position (I really, truly do). I would also like to see it become a norm once again. The problem is that, until that happens, there is a right way to OC--a way that will cause the public to look on us favorably--and a wrong way to OC--a way that will cause the public to look on us contemptuously--and we should strive to do it the right way and shame those who would do it the wrong way. Many here would sneer at the cultural norms that define our society, and I think they do so to the detriment of the 2A community. Like it or not, one of the reasons democrats attract so many young, college age people is damn good marketing. Libtards know how to dress, what to say, and what kind of font to use on their websites. You and I both know that ideals have little to do with it. We quite literally have to make OC cool, and walking around in a kilt and a silly hat antagonizing a cop who, misguided though he was, was trying to be personable just isn't the way to do it. As much as I hate to say it, our war is as much a PR war as it is an ideological one. |
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Posted: 3/5/2015 5:20:42 AM EDT
[#50]
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No, actually that's exactly the answer. Whether you like it or not, society is ultimately responsible for the laws it supports. Were the sociological factors present during the penning of the Constitution different from what they were, the Constitution would be different from what it is. Society determines law (I am making no claim about natural rights, which are completely different altogether). Mob rule? Yep, albeit with some buffers. It's really quite simple. Soccer mom sees basement dude walking around with scary looking gun and calls the police. She doesn't know any better. She's soccer mom. Then soccer mom sees basement dude's Youtube video and thinks, "holy shit, that guy's a douche who probably has mental issues." Then soccer mom is conditioned, not by the evil, wicked media, but by basement guy who looks like he just broke out of the psych ward, to associate guns with seemingly unstable douche-bags. That's bad for us, since soccer mom is also voter mom, and her encounter with basement dude mostly likely just raised raised the probably that she will vote for someone who promises to "keep guns off of our kids' streets." Now, is soccer mom being rational? No, but that's entirely beside the point. It's completely irrelevant. As long as soccer mom is also voter mom, we just have to deal with it and try not to look like fucking douchebags. Am I being hyperbolic? No, honestly I don't think I am. We are, all of us, ambassadors for the civil rights movement (of the 2A type). When we look like complete fools, it makes our cause look foolish. It's as simple as that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Man these stupid fucks make me angry. They have no conception whatever of how society works. No tact. No social grace. No. fucking. clue. They will make people hate us, and they will make people hate our cause.I seriously think most of them must be high-functioning autistics. For the record, I support open carry. I just can't stand it when these idiots go out into metropolitan areas with AR's strapped to their backs wearing crappy clothes and looking like they just escaped from the psych ward. Then when a cop tries to check out the situation they act like complete and utter dicks (and if anyone here is familiar with my views I am usually NOT on the cop's side). Not looking like a douche in a kilt with an AR and a safari hat. No, actually that's exactly the answer. Whether you like it or not, society is ultimately responsible for the laws it supports. Were the sociological factors present during the penning of the Constitution different from what they were, the Constitution would be different from what it is. Society determines law (I am making no claim about natural rights, which are completely different altogether). Mob rule? Yep, albeit with some buffers. It's really quite simple. Soccer mom sees basement dude walking around with scary looking gun and calls the police. She doesn't know any better. She's soccer mom. Then soccer mom sees basement dude's Youtube video and thinks, "holy shit, that guy's a douche who probably has mental issues." Then soccer mom is conditioned, not by the evil, wicked media, but by basement guy who looks like he just broke out of the psych ward, to associate guns with seemingly unstable douche-bags. That's bad for us, since soccer mom is also voter mom, and her encounter with basement dude mostly likely just raised raised the probably that she will vote for someone who promises to "keep guns off of our kids' streets." Now, is soccer mom being rational? No, but that's entirely beside the point. It's completely irrelevant. As long as soccer mom is also voter mom, we just have to deal with it and try not to look like fucking douchebags. Am I being hyperbolic? No, honestly I don't think I am. We are, all of us, ambassadors for the civil rights movement (of the 2A type). When we look like complete fools, it makes our cause look foolish. It's as simple as that. I agree. I think most people already have their minds made up and no amount of discussion or facts will change their views. For others, who are open to a cultural change, the behavior of the OC activists makes a difference. For example, I don't give a crap if someone is gay but no way will I *ever* support gay marriage because of the behavior of its supporters. |
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