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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:00:46 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Trespassing in NYS is a violation, punishable by at most 15 days in jail ( 10 with good time ) and /or a small monetary fine In other words, nothing even close to justifying the use of deadly physical force Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If it is after dark here and someone opens any of my doors they will have a bad night. Just because it is not locked doesn't mean it is not trespassing. Out of control police state. He deserved to have his face chewed off and then shot in the face. Trespassing in NYS is a violation, punishable by at most 15 days in jail ( 10 with good time ) and /or a small monetary fine In other words, nothing even close to justifying the use of deadly physical force I don't care. Someone opens my front door at night it will end badly for them. Thank God I don't live in a commie state. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:01:04 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does VA have a castle doctrine? No. That's not really correct. Virginia doesn't have a statutory "castle doctrine," but what we have is actually BETTER. There is no duty to retreat ANYWHERE in the state, inside or outside your home, as long as you did not contribute to causing the altercation. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:01:11 PM EDT
[#3]
I feel like this thread is starting over again. People that have not read all 7 pages are just vomiting out their mouth because they don't have all the facts that the OP has posted throughout said 7 pages.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:03:23 PM EDT
[#4]
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I don't care. Someone opens my front door at night it will end badly for them. Thank God I don't live in a commie state. You have to care because your actions have to be legally defensible for the offense being committed, and that applies in any state And as I noted in my last post, it is actually Criminal Trespass, not simple trespass. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:03:38 PM EDT
[#5]
You got bluffed by the "dog prosecutor". You should have taken the attorney to Court and told that other bozo to go pound his pud.
I know....the above is easy for me to say, but you got railroaded big time. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:04:18 PM EDT
[#6]
What kind of freaking city do you live in. Register your dog. WTF?
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:05:15 PM EDT
[#7]
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You, should have called the cops on him while he was standing there with your shotgun on him. At a minimum. The fact the cops were not called lends even more suspicion that this never even happened. Is anyone really so naive, so out of tune with the issues at hand, that they would just let someone go in a situation as this? 
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:08:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Firstly, the guy would be dead if he opened my front door at 10pm at night.
Secondly, if by chance he survived to tell his "story" and the court decided my dog was dangerous and should be put down, I would hire the best damn lawyer in the world to fight it. Thirdly, if we lost the case, they would have to send SWAT to get my dog. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:12:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What kind of freaking city do you live in. Register your dog. WTF? I have not heard of a city that lacks a Dog registry top be honest. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:13:39 PM EDT
[#10]
Haven't read the whole thread. But as I read the OP I had one image in my head (if they'd have put your dog down for doing its job!)...
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:17:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or.... Have morals, and realize the situation for what it is. Jesus, you guys really want to murder someone don't you? FFS Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You should have killed him. He said he had a gun and almost shot your dog, as soon as he said that, kill him, tell the police that he was forced out of the house by the dog and was drawing his pistol on you. Dead men don't talk. Have morals, and realize the situation for what it is. Jesus, you guys really want to murder someone don't you? FFS Killing somebody on the porch (on these facts) is beyond the pale. That said, I have to think that the death of a process server who would enter a residence at night without permission would not be a great loss to civilization. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:17:50 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have to care because your actions have to be legally defensible for the offense being committed, and that applies in any state And as I noted in my last post, it is actually Criminal Trespass, not simple trespass. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't care. Someone opens my front door at night it will end badly for them. Thank God I don't live in a commie state. You have to care because your actions have to be legally defensible for the offense being committed, and that applies in any state And as I noted in my last post, it is actually Criminal Trespass, not simple trespass. Are we supposed to ask the intruder, who may well be armed...may have armed buddies outside or elsewhere in the house and knowing that scum do kill innocent people for no reason....whether he is there just to watch TV, make a sandwich, is just looking around or intends to injure or kill? |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:19:38 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Killing somebody on the porch (on these facts) is beyond the pale. That said, I have to think that the death of a process server who would enter a residence at night without permission would not be a great loss to civilization. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You should have killed him. He said he had a gun and almost shot your dog, as soon as he said that, kill him, tell the police that he was forced out of the house by the dog and was drawing his pistol on you. Dead men don't talk. Have morals, and realize the situation for what it is. Jesus, you guys really want to murder someone don't you? FFS Killing somebody on the porch (on these facts) is beyond the pale. That said, I have to think that the death of a process server who would enter a residence at night without permission would not be a great loss to civilization. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:20:59 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are we supposed to ask the intruder, who may well be armed...may have armed buddies outside or elsewhere in the house and knowing that scum do kill innocent people for no reason....whether he is there just to watch TV, make a sandwich, is just looking around or intends to injure or kill? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't care. Someone opens my front door at night it will end badly for them. Thank God I don't live in a commie state. You have to care because your actions have to be legally defensible for the offense being committed, and that applies in any state And as I noted in my last post, it is actually Criminal Trespass, not simple trespass. Are we supposed to ask the intruder, who may well be armed...may have armed buddies outside or elsewhere in the house and knowing that scum do kill innocent people for no reason....whether he is there just to watch TV, make a sandwich, is just looking around or intends to injure or kill? The question of whether he's armed is answered when he says, "I almost shot your dog," and the question about his intent is answered when he tells you to go fuck yourself. Or at least, that's the conclusion I'd come to. Whether he gets shot at that point really depends on how delicately he can un-ass the area without further provocation. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:21:53 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have not heard of a city that lacks a Dog registry top be honest. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What kind of freaking city do you live in. Register your dog. WTF? I have not heard of a city that lacks a Dog registry top be honest. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:23:05 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have not heard of a city that lacks a Dog registry top be honest. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What kind of freaking city do you live in. Register your dog. WTF?
I have not heard of a city that lacks a Dog registry top be honest. If by register you mean get a rabies tag, then yes. Otherwise I've never heard of it. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:24:17 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You think if Obama's third cousin, a black high school exchange student from Kenya walks into the wrong house by mistake while visiting friends and gets sawed in half by some arfcommer's Mossberg in Arizona or Texas or where ever there won't be an arrest? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I would hope that people 1- read their state's self defense laws, don't take the word of some guy who taught you a CCW class, or your cousin or whatever 2-keep in mind that even a justified shooting can ruin you financially and cause a huge amount of terrible stress. https://allhiphop.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/george_zimmerman_mugshot_120410_620x350.jpg Using Zimmerman in a house intrusion is not a good analogy. Especially when racist black and liberal America wants to screw over all white folks. google "Joe Horn" and "Texas", and mull that one over. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:25:08 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Killing somebody on the porch (on these facts) is beyond the pale. That said, I have to think that the death of a process server who would enter a residence at night without permission would not be a great loss to civilization. Did you miss the part where the guy who entered at night without permission said, "I almost shot your dog" (thus declaring that he was armed) and "Go fuck yourself?" While I think that in good conscience I'd refrain from shooting him until he made a move toward me or a weapon, those facts don't really strike me as being "beyond the pale" if one were to have shot him. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:25:11 PM EDT
[#19]
Dead men tell no tales. You should have shot the intruder.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:26:09 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So why didn't you beat the fuck out of someone standing inside your home at 10pm? this, X10. armed intruder? seems like a potential clean shoot. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:26:15 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have to care because your actions have to be legally defensible for the offense being committed, and that applies in any state And as I noted in my last post, it is actually Criminal Trespass, not simple trespass. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't care. Someone opens my front door at night it will end badly for them. Thank God I don't live in a commie state. You have to care because your actions have to be legally defensible for the offense being committed, and that applies in any state And as I noted in my last post, it is actually Criminal Trespass, not simple trespass. The laws might be similar,but the legal culture is different.I'm not saying he should have shot the guy,but I do believe he had the right to.Out here,no one with good intentions will enter a private residence in that fashion,because they know that there's a very good chance of being shot.ETA..the legal system has a track record of not catering to the guilty party. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:30:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Why 10 PM?
It seems to me that the state should have set limits on when and where a process server could serve papers. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:32:17 PM EDT
[#23]
Should have called the cops on him and had him arrested for trespass.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:34:14 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why 10 PM? It seems to me that the state should have set limits on when and where a process server could serve papers. Why SWAT raids at 300 AM or 400 AM? The person should be home. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:36:03 PM EDT
[#25]
tl,dr the OP.
Also, didn't read any of the other posts. Nice pic of dog and OP. Did that guy just walk in unannounced? TAGGED |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:42:44 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why SWAT raids at 300 AM or 400 AM? The person should be home. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why 10 PM? It seems to me that the state should have set limits on when and where a process server could serve papers. Why SWAT raids at 300 AM or 400 AM? The person should be home. Wait...there are SWAT raids at 3-4 AM? |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:45:25 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor’s occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment; 
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I'm betting it wouldn't fly in Texas either. http://www.rc123.com/texas_castle_doctrine.html I doubt opening an unlocked front door qualifies Doesn't matter if the door is locked or not. He had no lawful reason to enter the house. Even if he had, there's a good chance OP wouldn't have been charged for shooting him here. People have been no-billed after shooting cops serving actual warrants at the right house. A process server breaking into the wrong house, especially with a gun, would be a good shoot.
You moving my book bag/suitcase/sneakers/rug that gets hung up on the door that was preventing you from fully opening my unlocked door is FORCED entry. All I have to do is toss a book bag down, or other, by the door. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:45:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The laws might be similar,but the legal culture is different.I'm not saying he should have shot the guy,but I do believe he had the right to.Out here,no one with good intentions will enter a private residence in that fashion,because they know that there's a very good chance of being shot.ETA..the legal system has a track record of not catering to the guilty party. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't care. Someone opens my front door at night it will end badly for them. Thank God I don't live in a commie state. You have to care because your actions have to be legally defensible for the offense being committed, and that applies in any state And as I noted in my last post, it is actually Criminal Trespass, not simple trespass. The laws might be similar,but the legal culture is different.I'm not saying he should have shot the guy,but I do believe he had the right to.Out here,no one with good intentions will enter a private residence in that fashion,because they know that there's a very good chance of being shot.ETA..the legal system has a track record of not catering to the guilty party. We're talking about New York here...... They have a track record of not catering to law abiding citizens! 
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:46:50 PM EDT
[#29]
Would have shot the guy as soon as I had angle on him under those circumstances. There would not have been any conversation.
Late at night, opened the door, and trying to enter the house. I would have absolutely believed he was breaking in to rob the place and may harm me. That is not considering what a dick the guy turned out to be after the fact, just based on any unknown adult male trying to gain unauthorized entry to the house. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:53:37 PM EDT
[#30]
Went into your house? After dark? I would have blown that guy away.
At the very least he would have been giving my rifle a blowjob. You should sue him. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:55:20 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You should have killed him. He said he had a gun and almost shot your dog, as soon as he said that, kill him, tell the police that he was forced out of the house by the dog and was drawing his pistol on you. Dead men don't talk. Great advice. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:56:10 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My mom once wandered off in her old age while staying with my sister and walked into some house. The guys renting it were cool but I do wonder how many people here would end up in prison for shooting some old duffer with dementia if they forgot to lock their front door. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You have castle doctrine? Just shoot the fucker next time. Fuck trespassers. Some old lady? Pretty safe. A working age male after dark? Good way to die. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 5:58:25 PM EDT
[#33]
To all the people that do not believe me...whatever helps you sleep at night. I wish it did not happen
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:18:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are we supposed to ask the intruder, who may well be armed...may have armed buddies outside or elsewhere in the house and knowing that scum do kill innocent people for no reason....whether he is there just to watch TV, make a sandwich, is just looking around or intends to injure or kill? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are we supposed to ask the intruder, who may well be armed...may have armed buddies outside or elsewhere in the house and knowing that scum do kill innocent people for no reason....whether he is there just to watch TV, make a sandwich, is just looking around or intends to injure or kill? I never said that...but you have to base your use and amount of force on the force being encountered. The easiest rule of thumb is whether or not you are responding to an amount of force that could result in loss of life or serious bodily injury The guy at the doorway has not yet displayed any amount of force that would cause you to believe that you the homeowner are dealing with a deadly force incident that you must respond to with deadly force. Quoted:
The laws might be similar,but the legal culture is different.I'm not saying he should have shot the guy,but I do believe he had the right to.Out here,no one with good intentions will enter a private residence in that fashion,because they know that there's a very good chance of being shot.ETA..the legal system has a track record of not catering to the guilty party. You don't have the right to do so if the laws don't say you can use deadly force Quoted:
We're talking about New York here...... They have a track record of not catering to law abiding citizens!
Actually, most of our use of force laws are pretty straight-forward Always some aspects to them I don't agree with |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:19:33 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you miss the part where the guy who entered at night without permission said, "I almost shot your dog" (thus declaring that he was armed) and "Go fuck yourself?" While I think that in good conscience I'd refrain from shooting him until he made a move toward me or a weapon, those facts don't really strike me as being "beyond the pale" if one were to have shot him. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Killing somebody on the porch (on these facts) is beyond the pale. That said, I have to think that the death of a process server who would enter a residence at night without permission would not be a great loss to civilization. Did you miss the part where the guy who entered at night without permission said, "I almost shot your dog" (thus declaring that he was armed) and "Go fuck yourself?" While I think that in good conscience I'd refrain from shooting him until he made a move toward me or a weapon, those facts don't really strike me as being "beyond the pale" if one were to have shot him. As I understand it, the BG was outside the house proper and on the porch when confronted by the homeowner. You can't shoot a stationary person who has completed a burglary/trespass and is in a place which is open to the mailman, UPS, lost strangers, et al. unless he presents a threat. When he declared himself armed, I'd have overtly covered him with the SG and shot him dead if he'd moved. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:21:20 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You moving my book bag/suitcase/sneakers/rug that gets hung up on the door that was preventing you from fully opening my unlocked door is FORCED entry. All I have to do is toss a book bag down, or other, by the door. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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I'm betting it wouldn't fly in Texas either. http://www.rc123.com/texas_castle_doctrine.html I doubt opening an unlocked front door qualifies Doesn't matter if the door is locked or not. He had no lawful reason to enter the house. Even if he had, there's a good chance OP wouldn't have been charged for shooting him here. People have been no-billed after shooting cops serving actual warrants at the right house. A process server breaking into the wrong house, especially with a gun, would be a good shoot.
You moving my book bag/suitcase/sneakers/rug that gets hung up on the door that was preventing you from fully opening my unlocked door is FORCED entry. All I have to do is toss a book bag down, or other, by the door. In many jurisdictions, turning the knob or pushing the door open for an unlawful entry makes the entry forcible. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:22:45 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In many jurisdictions, turning the knob or pushing the door open for an unlawful entry makes the entry forcible. Then I think that's an extreme interpretation. "Force" should require some degree of force beyond simply turning the knob as was intended by the designer or pushing a door open with a normal amount of force |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:24:53 PM EDT
[#38]
There are common law definitions of forcible entry as opening a partially open door, but I would be wary of thinking that still held true for new criminal statutes
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:28:13 PM EDT
[#39]
You should have just kept your story under your hat and just posted the dog pics. It's making blood boil including mine.
An intruder is in your house telling you to Fuc- yourself and threatens your dog? Should have had a busted face at the least. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:31:28 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He couldn't have reported your dog if you had just shot him when he came into your house.  this |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:31:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You might want to reread both posts closely before trying to make a smartass comment as is typical in this forum. Here is what he wrote as I was typing my comment: "Yes, there was blood in the house which proves he was in the house and not just on the porch. This was immediately shot down by the judge because he kept saying that he was proven to be there although by mistake not illegal intent." His comment was that the blood proved the guy was in the house. I asked if the guy was in the house when the OP first saw him. Those are two different issues. What the heck is "lulz?" Using asinine words does not make you look educated. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Can we get a definitive response from the OP whether the guy was INSIDE your house...meaning he passed through the front door opening...when you first saw him? You might want to reread both posts closely before trying to make a smartass comment as is typical in this forum. Here is what he wrote as I was typing my comment: "Yes, there was blood in the house which proves he was in the house and not just on the porch. This was immediately shot down by the judge because he kept saying that he was proven to be there although by mistake not illegal intent." His comment was that the blood proved the guy was in the house. I asked if the guy was in the house when the OP first saw him. Those are two different issues. What the heck is "lulz?" Using asinine words does not make you look educated. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:33:47 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You went to court without a lawyer??? This. I would have called the cops and pressed charges for B and E. That would have given you a lot of protection for what happened later. Server can claim all he wants he was there legally but he wasn't as he was not at the correct address and he didn't have any rights to enter ANY doors. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:35:56 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you tell you mom to ....PAY HER FUCKING BILLS! FSA is FSA...family or not. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:36:26 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are common law definitions of forcible entry as opening a partially open door, but I would be wary of thinking that still held true for new criminal statutes I've worked more than a few cases where good, legitimate evidence was tossed over some bullshit. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:39:03 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dead men tell no tales. You should have shot the intruder. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:39:28 PM EDT
[#46]
I thought Virginia was a free state.
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:41:03 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then I think that's an extreme interpretation. "Force" should require some degree of force beyond simply turning the knob as was intended by the designer or pushing a door open with a normal amount of force Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In many jurisdictions, turning the knob or pushing the door open for an unlawful entry makes the entry forcible. Then I think that's an extreme interpretation. "Force" should require some degree of force beyond simply turning the knob as was intended by the designer or pushing a door open with a normal amount of force It will do in Nebraska |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:44:28 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He couldn't have reported your dog if you had just shot him when he came into your house. That is the way it works in Texas. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:45:46 PM EDT
[#49]
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I'm amazed by dogs. How incredible is it that the dog, upstairs and out of sight, heard someone come in and knew for a certainty that it was opened by someone who doesn't belong there. Amazing animals. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The Weimeraner does that stuff all the time. Her biggest issue is that she is like an 80 pound Houdini. She can open the gates, or dig under the fence quick as hell. She will run circles around joggers barking like an attack dog. I'm surprised she hasn't been shot yet. That damn dog did a running face plant against the bay window in the living room. The Sheriff came by to deliver papers, only to be greeted by one hell of a thump and the bark of death. He was tripping over his feet, trying to get his retention strap undone on the holster. He damn near fell off the front porch. It was funny as hell. He was white as a ghost and shaking when he figured out what just happened. The whole event lasted about 3 seconds. Thankfully he was a great guy and very understanding. Slow on the pistol draw, too. 
The Weimeraner had obedience training. I'd like to see if my neghibors could go through the same program. The fuckers on both sides have been bit because they stuck their fingers through the fence. Who the fuck sticks their fingers through a fence that is holding back a pissed off 80 dog, barking its ass off? The new implants to the neghiborhood threatened to sue for damages because we didn't have a beware of dog sign on the fence. They quit bitching as soon as the attorney word showed up. Assholes. |
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Posted: 2/27/2015 6:45:57 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My mom once wandered off in her old age while staying with my sister and walked into some house. The guys renting it were cool but I do wonder how many people here would end up in prison for shooting some old duffer with dementia if they forgot to lock their front door. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You have castle doctrine? Just shoot the fucker next time. Fuck trespassers. I would wager few if any.  |
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