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Link Posted: 1/25/2015 1:17:45 PM EDT
[#1]
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Tough enough to watch your buddy take an arrow to the face and keep moving.  We're talking about a group of individuals who are used to seeing the fella on the left and the right get killed on a regular basis.  A group of 5,000 of those types would quickly quell a riot.  

Sure they would get stomped by even a loosely organized group with modern weapons but it's not like your typical rioter is heavily armed with a ton of resolve.  You're talking about a bunch of cowards who only crawl out of the woodwork to steal shit when the law is absent or overwhelmed.  Riot police break these types of events up with shields, sticks, and tear gas.  Now we are upping the ante to a Roman Legion with no fucks left to give?  Slaughter.

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It isn't like the Roman legions never broke ranks and ran.  I think it is very reasonable to think that when faced with a completely foreign technology, one that seems to magically kill you from a distance and is fucking loud to boot, would cause them to do so.  Especially when only a few can wield such weapons and quickly mow down the first rank.  And again, no Roman ever saw a one and a half ton truck plow into the line at a speed they couldn't even comprehend.  That'll likely make even the most hardened legion break rank and GTFO.

And again, the rioters weren't just the opportunistic looters looking for free shit.  There were some definite agitators present.  If set upon not by riot police with just non-lethal weapons, but a legion sent in to kill, I suspect they'd fight back with more than just throwing rocks and breaking windows.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 1:28:11 PM EDT
[#2]

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If they had to go in, which according to Roman tactics they wouldn't, they would just move to the sides, throw the spears, then reform. The flaming mass of FSA would a) not unite because lootz yo, b) barely hold a GED never mind understand tactics, c) would run after the first person is skewered. Yea you could sit around in the imaginary dump truck trying to run over people but Romans weren't stupid. If I transported you into Star Trek you would be awed but you wouldn't get retarded and forget that you can run into the ally to escape a hovercar.
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Everyone is also focusing on a few looters having firearms.  Imagine a tight standard formation of Legionaries and how they might react if one single looter decides to plow head on into that formation in a pickup truck or SUV at 50 or 60 miles per hour.





They would get out of the way, while throwing spears at the vehicle. Same as if they were being charged by chariots.
Dump trucks aren't as vulnerable as the horses leading a chariot, only one of which needs to be taken out to stop it. At dump truck at 40 miles per hour aiming for the section of line where the legion's eagle is stationed, followed by hordes screaming protestors armed with Molotov cocktails and other assorted weapons would break and rout any Roman force in its history. These are the same dudes who were scared to enter haunted forests. If they encounter the ususual they don't do well.  


If they had to go in, which according to Roman tactics they wouldn't, they would just move to the sides, throw the spears, then reform. The flaming mass of FSA would a) not unite because lootz yo, b) barely hold a GED never mind understand tactics, c) would run after the first person is skewered. Yea you could sit around in the imaginary dump truck trying to run over people but Romans weren't stupid. If I transported you into Star Trek you would be awed but you wouldn't get retarded and forget that you can run into the ally to escape a hovercar.
Let's recap what I'm stating. A cohort of Roman legionaires marches into a intersection of Ferguson to confront rioters. They are in a line formation, with all the small unit leaders and best fighters in the front ranks. Their entire system revolves are maintained unit integrity, IE. Not running away as a group. Panic turns cohesive units into a massive group of individuals, running away.

 



Now the 1st time the Romans encountered elephants against Pyrhhus the Epirote, they routed. Natural, since an elephant is a pretty formidable opponent, though not too hard to turn away using trained and disciplined troops who know how to stop it. However, a dump truck has a few things over a war elephant. One, it has no mind of its own, so wont panic. Two, it doesn't bleed and is made of metal, so javelins and sling stones probably aren't going to do jack shit to it. More so, it is far heavier and can move much faster, meaning it can slam into the front rank of a Roman formation (or better yet, at an oblique angle), taking out all the ranks of a century, push right through the front battle line and then slam through the second or third ranks in the echelon. Lastly, since the Romans never encountered anything like a massive metal motorized chariot, I seriously doubt they would already have a preplanned method for fighting them. Besides which, the openning files techniques only worked with horses and elephants but animals will only choose an opening to run through versus a wall of spears, javelins, swords and shields. Trucks don't get scared and the driver isn't going to veer off, instead, he's going to purposely aim his 50,000 lb truck into the section of the line that has the most people, the most standards, and the most important looking people.




Now even the biggest Roman army fanboi (and I'm one of them) has to admit that this is going to be pretty effective. When the Roman formation of 80ish soldiers, fighting in a 10x8 or 20x4 rank and file formation, whose best defense is a plywood shield and thin metal helmet and curaiss, gets a dump truck to run through it, killing or mangling everyone its hits, without even really slowing down, followed by hordes of screaming barbarians throwing magic fireballs (molotov cocktails) and using thunder sticks (pistols and rifles) that make centurions and tribunes fall down dead, that force would end up killing half its numbers when they trample one another to run away.






Link Posted: 1/25/2015 1:30:19 PM EDT
[#3]
The entire exercise is silly.  It's on par with Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.

The whole Arthur C. Clarke concept of "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".

I thinK the whole Final Countdown alternate history is more plausible.  What would 5 Abrams have done against the Germans in WWII?  What impact would ONE modern heavy infantry platoon do in the Revolutionary War?  Until they ran out of ammo of course.

Maybe the right way to look at the question, what would the Premiere Military force on the planet today (Americans) put down the "uprising" if they had the same moral and ethical framework and value for human life as the Legions?  Forget the oath to support and defend the constitution and change it to live and die for the Legion and the Senate.  They tell you to put down an insurrection with extreme prejudice....
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 1:32:51 PM EDT
[#4]

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I still don't know how you figure a large unit in a box formation suddenly moves to the sides to avoid a speeding dump truck when there are buildings on either side of the street.  Or that the dump truck has this thing called a steering wheel, and can quickly adjust to crush a shit ton of those soldiers hemmed on either side.



Also, underestimating your enemy is the ultimate folly.  A lot of those hippy douchebags protesting out there were educated, and I guarantee you, some were veterans (because some just swig that way.)  Don't assume for a second that they would be nothing but a mindless rabble incapable of any level of organization or tactics.



And that rabble holds a significant technology advantage both in communications and improvisable weapons.
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Everyone is also focusing on a few looters having firearms.  Imagine a tight standard formation of Legionaries and how they might react if one single looter decides to plow head on into that formation in a pickup truck or SUV at 50 or 60 miles per hour.





They would get out of the way, while throwing spears at the vehicle. Same as if they were being charged by chariots.
Dump trucks aren't as vulnerable as the horses leading a chariot, only one of which needs to be taken out to stop it. At dump truck at 40 miles per hour aiming for the section of line where the legion's eagle is stationed, followed by hordes screaming protestors armed with Molotov cocktails and other assorted weapons would break and rout any Roman force in its history. These are the same dudes who were scared to enter haunted forests. If they encounter the ususual they don't do well.  


If they had to go in, which according to Roman tactics they wouldn't, they would just move to the sides, throw the spears, then reform. The flaming mass of FSA would a) not unite because lootz yo, b) barely hold a GED never mind understand tactics, c) would run after the first person is skewered. Yea you could sit around in the imaginary dump truck trying to run over people but Romans weren't stupid. If I transported you into Star Trek you would be awed but you wouldn't get retarded and forget that you can run into the ally to escape a hovercar.




I still don't know how you figure a large unit in a box formation suddenly moves to the sides to avoid a speeding dump truck when there are buildings on either side of the street.  Or that the dump truck has this thing called a steering wheel, and can quickly adjust to crush a shit ton of those soldiers hemmed on either side.



Also, underestimating your enemy is the ultimate folly.  A lot of those hippy douchebags protesting out there were educated, and I guarantee you, some were veterans (because some just swig that way.)  Don't assume for a second that they would be nothing but a mindless rabble incapable of any level of organization or tactics.



And that rabble holds a significant technology advantage both in communications and improvisable weapons.
He's envisioning the Romans performing a "mouse trap" maneuver like against Chariots, or when they'd open lanes in their lines to channel elephants into to. Unfortunately, both those tactics only work against animals, not dump trucks. The drivers of chariots and the manhouts of elephants usually wouldn't be able to stop their chargers from diverting into the less threatening openings. Meanwhile, if a Roman force opened up a similar hole for a truck to pass through and I was driving, I'd lay on the gas pedal, turn the wheel just a big, and slam right into the formation, at a shallow angle, so I'd run over the better part of the whole line. After I plowed through the line, I'd brake hard, thrown in reverse, back through formation again, get some distance while they are in total shock, and then do it again.

 
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 1:34:31 PM EDT
[#5]
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Let's recap what I'm stating. A cohort of Roman legionaires marches into a intersection of Ferguson to confront rioters. They are in a line formation, with all the small unit leaders and best fighters in the front ranks. Their entire system revolves are maintained unit integrity, IE. Not running away as a group. Panic turns cohesive units into a massive group of individuals, running away.    

Now the 1st time the Romans encountered elephants against Pyrhhus the Epirote, they routed. Natural, since an elephant is a pretty formidable opponent, though not too hard to turn away using trained and disciplined troops who know how to stop it. However, a dump truck has a few things over a war elephant. One, it has no mind of its own, so wont panic. Two, it doesn't bleed and is made of metal, so javelins and sling stones probably aren't going to do jack shit to it. More so, it is far heavier and can move much faster, meaning it can slam into the front rank of a Roman formation (or better yet, at an oblique angle), taking out all the ranks of a century, push right through the front battle line and then slam through the second or third ranks in the echelon. Lastly, since the Romans never encountered anything like a massive metal motorized chariot, I seriously doubt they would already have a preplanned method for fighting them. Besides which, the openning files techniques only worked with horses and elephants but animals will only choose an opening to run through versus a wall of spears, javelins, swords and shields. Trucks don't get scared and the driver isn't going to veer off, instead, he's going to purposely aim his 50,000 lb truck into the section of the line that has the most people, the most standards, and the most important looking people.

Now even the biggest Roman army fanboi (and I'm one of them) has to admit that this is going to be pretty effective. When the Roman formation of 80ish soldiers, fighting in a 10x8 or 20x4 rank and file formation, whose best defense is a plywood shield and thin metal helmet and curaiss, gets a dump truck to run through it, killing or mangling everyone its hits, without even really slowing down, followed by hordes of screaming barbarians throwing magic fireballs (molotov cocktails) and using thunder sticks (pistols and rifles) that make centurions and tribunes fall down dead, that force would end up killing half its numbers when they trample one another to run away.


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Everyone is also focusing on a few looters having firearms.  Imagine a tight standard formation of Legionaries and how they might react if one single looter decides to plow head on into that formation in a pickup truck or SUV at 50 or 60 miles per hour.


They would get out of the way, while throwing spears at the vehicle. Same as if they were being charged by chariots.
Dump trucks aren't as vulnerable as the horses leading a chariot, only one of which needs to be taken out to stop it. At dump truck at 40 miles per hour aiming for the section of line where the legion's eagle is stationed, followed by hordes screaming protestors armed with Molotov cocktails and other assorted weapons would break and rout any Roman force in its history. These are the same dudes who were scared to enter haunted forests. If they encounter the ususual they don't do well.  

If they had to go in, which according to Roman tactics they wouldn't, they would just move to the sides, throw the spears, then reform. The flaming mass of FSA would a) not unite because lootz yo, b) barely hold a GED never mind understand tactics, c) would run after the first person is skewered. Yea you could sit around in the imaginary dump truck trying to run over people but Romans weren't stupid. If I transported you into Star Trek you would be awed but you wouldn't get retarded and forget that you can run into the ally to escape a hovercar.
Let's recap what I'm stating. A cohort of Roman legionaires marches into a intersection of Ferguson to confront rioters. They are in a line formation, with all the small unit leaders and best fighters in the front ranks. Their entire system revolves are maintained unit integrity, IE. Not running away as a group. Panic turns cohesive units into a massive group of individuals, running away.    

Now the 1st time the Romans encountered elephants against Pyrhhus the Epirote, they routed. Natural, since an elephant is a pretty formidable opponent, though not too hard to turn away using trained and disciplined troops who know how to stop it. However, a dump truck has a few things over a war elephant. One, it has no mind of its own, so wont panic. Two, it doesn't bleed and is made of metal, so javelins and sling stones probably aren't going to do jack shit to it. More so, it is far heavier and can move much faster, meaning it can slam into the front rank of a Roman formation (or better yet, at an oblique angle), taking out all the ranks of a century, push right through the front battle line and then slam through the second or third ranks in the echelon. Lastly, since the Romans never encountered anything like a massive metal motorized chariot, I seriously doubt they would already have a preplanned method for fighting them. Besides which, the openning files techniques only worked with horses and elephants but animals will only choose an opening to run through versus a wall of spears, javelins, swords and shields. Trucks don't get scared and the driver isn't going to veer off, instead, he's going to purposely aim his 50,000 lb truck into the section of the line that has the most people, the most standards, and the most important looking people.

Now even the biggest Roman army fanboi (and I'm one of them) has to admit that this is going to be pretty effective. When the Roman formation of 80ish soldiers, fighting in a 10x8 or 20x4 rank and file formation, whose best defense is a plywood shield and thin metal helmet and curaiss, gets a dump truck to run through it, killing or mangling everyone its hits, without even really slowing down, followed by hordes of screaming barbarians throwing magic fireballs (molotov cocktails) and using thunder sticks (pistols and rifles) that make centurions and tribunes fall down dead, that force would end up killing half its numbers when they trample one another to run away.




The hood rats would run after first volley of spears. Stand their ground----no.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 1:35:03 PM EDT
[#6]
What I would want to see is the effects on the rioters of the exploding fire pots, would they stand their ground, they seem to relish the use of fire. Would they fear fire when used on them? One way or the other catapult projected fire pots would surely be a crowd pleaser .
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 1:35:42 PM EDT
[#7]
The body count is over 9000!
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 1:40:06 PM EDT
[#8]


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The hood rats would run after first volley of spears. Stand their ground----no.
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They would get out of the way, while throwing spears at the vehicle. Same as if they were being charged by chariots.
Dump trucks aren't as vulnerable as the horses leading a chariot, only one of which needs to be taken out to stop it. At dump truck at 40 miles per hour aiming for the section of line where the legion's eagle is stationed, followed by hordes screaming protestors armed with Molotov cocktails and other assorted weapons would break and rout any Roman force in its history. These are the same dudes who were scared to enter haunted forests. If they encounter the ususual they don't do well.  



If they had to go in, which according to Roman tactics they wouldn't, they would just move to the sides, throw the spears, then reform. The flaming mass of FSA would a) not unite because lootz yo, b) barely hold a GED never mind understand tactics, c) would run after the first person is skewered. Yea you could sit around in the imaginary dump truck trying to run over people but Romans weren't stupid. If I transported you into Star Trek you would be awed but you wouldn't get retarded and forget that you can run into the ally to escape a hovercar.
Let's recap what I'm stating. A cohort of Roman legionaires marches into a intersection of Ferguson to confront rioters. They are in a line formation, with all the small unit leaders and best fighters in the front ranks. Their entire system revolves are maintained unit integrity, IE. Not running away as a group. Panic turns cohesive units into a massive group of individuals, running away.    





Now the 1st time the Romans encountered elephants against Pyrhhus the Epirote, they routed. Natural, since an elephant is a pretty formidable opponent, though not too hard to turn away using trained and disciplined troops who know how to stop it. However, a dump truck has a few things over a war elephant. One, it has no mind of its own, so wont panic. Two, it doesn't bleed and is made of metal, so javelins and sling stones probably aren't going to do jack shit to it. More so, it is far heavier and can move much faster, meaning it can slam into the front rank of a Roman formation (or better yet, at an oblique angle), taking out all the ranks of a century, push right through the front battle line and then slam through the second or third ranks in the echelon. Lastly, since the Romans never encountered anything like a massive metal motorized chariot, I seriously doubt they would already have a preplanned method for fighting them. Besides which, the openning files techniques only worked with horses and elephants but animals will only choose an opening to run through versus a wall of spears, javelins, swords and shields. Trucks don't get scared and the driver isn't going to veer off, instead, he's going to purposely aim his 50,000 lb truck into the section of the line that has the most people, the most standards, and the most important looking people.





Now even the biggest Roman army fanboi (and I'm one of them) has to admit that this is going to be pretty effective. When the Roman formation of 80ish soldiers, fighting in a 10x8 or 20x4 rank and file formation, whose best defense is a plywood shield and thin metal helmet and curaiss, gets a dump truck to run through it, killing or mangling everyone its hits, without even really slowing down, followed by hordes of screaming barbarians throwing magic fireballs (molotov cocktails) and using thunder sticks (pistols and rifles) that make centurions and tribunes fall down dead, that force would end up killing half its numbers when they trample one another to run away.






The hood rats would run after first volley of spears. Stand their ground----no.
That first volley of spears will never touch the hood rats because some Honda Civics and Escalades and stolen school buses, city dump trucks, garbage trucks, etc. will make road kill out of the brave Legio V Alauda.

 
 
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 1:41:24 PM EDT
[#9]
Romans would get really frustrated when they realized there was no place to sell the slaves.  
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 1:43:48 PM EDT
[#10]
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The hood rats would run after first volley of spears. Stand their ground----no.
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Yes, run, retreat back to another area, grab a dump truck, then start fucking shit up.

I'm a huge Roman fanboi too, but they really would be out of their element entirely here.  The technology gap would be massive.

The Romans wouldn't know what a dump truck was...to them it would be some mythical beast akin to a god.

The protesters could just fall back and Google roman tactics on their smartphones and have a strategic advantage in 10 minutes.

Even dipshit looters and protesters might as well be sorcerers and gods to a Roman transported through time.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 1:47:23 PM EDT
[#11]
The Roman legion will set up camp near one of Ferguson's creeks and ponds use them as a water source, since they now fuck all about modern plumbing and water pollution levels. Within a few days they will all be sick from various illnesses and most will be dead within a few weeks. Survivors will ask for govt handouts and become the new rabble of Ferguson, supported completely by the govt with bread and circuses and they are used to. If not, they will riot. Or are we making believe that most Romans wouldn't vote Democrat in heart beat? The Roman Populares party and the modern liberal progressives differed only slightly.  
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 1:50:31 PM EDT
[#12]

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That video is more choreographed than dancing with the stars. Let's see how the South Koreans do against an actual group of people who aren't fucking around, not OPFOR.

 



This is more of how a Roman fight would go:




Link Posted: 1/25/2015 1:53:16 PM EDT
[#13]
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The Roman legion will set up camp near one of Ferguson's creeks and ponds use them as a water source, since they now fuck all about modern plumbing and water pollution levels. Within a few days they will all be sick from various illnesses and most will be dead within a few weeks. Survivors will ask for govt handouts and become the new rabble of Ferguson, supported completely by the govt with bread and circuses and they are used to. If not, they will riot. Or are we making believe that most Romans wouldn't vote Democrat in heart beat? The Roman Populares party and the modern liberal progressives differed only slightly.  
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Great point, they might be very sympathetic to the protesters and join outright.  Rome's FSA culture was like ours on steroids.  If the wealthy didn't dole out fish and bread to feed the people, Rome got food riots on the regular.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 1:57:22 PM EDT
[#14]
This whole concept has been written about already in David Drake's "Ranks of Bronze" except in this case alien businesses bought Roman soldiers to use on low-tech worlds to achieve business objectives.  A similar book by David Weber is "The Excalibur Alternative".

Link Posted: 1/25/2015 1:57:40 PM EDT
[#15]
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It isn't like the Roman legions never broke ranks and ran.  I think it is very reasonable to think that when faced with a completely foreign technology, one that seems to magically kill you from a distance and is fucking loud to boot, would cause them to do so.  Especially when only a few can wield such weapons and quickly mow down the first rank.  And again, no Roman ever saw a one and a half ton truck plow into the line at a speed they couldn't even comprehend.  That'll likely make even the most hardened legion break rank and GTFO.

And again, the rioters weren't just the opportunistic looters looking for free shit.  There were some definite agitators present.  If set upon not by riot police with just non-lethal weapons, but a legion sent in to kill, I suspect they'd fight back with more than just throwing rocks and breaking windows.
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Tough enough to watch your buddy take an arrow to the face and keep moving.  We're talking about a group of individuals who are used to seeing the fella on the left and the right get killed on a regular basis.  A group of 5,000 of those types would quickly quell a riot.  

Sure they would get stomped by even a loosely organized group with modern weapons but it's not like your typical rioter is heavily armed with a ton of resolve.  You're talking about a bunch of cowards who only crawl out of the woodwork to steal shit when the law is absent or overwhelmed.  Riot police break these types of events up with shields, sticks, and tear gas.  Now we are upping the ante to a Roman Legion with no fucks left to give?  Slaughter.



It isn't like the Roman legions never broke ranks and ran.  I think it is very reasonable to think that when faced with a completely foreign technology, one that seems to magically kill you from a distance and is fucking loud to boot, would cause them to do so.  Especially when only a few can wield such weapons and quickly mow down the first rank.  And again, no Roman ever saw a one and a half ton truck plow into the line at a speed they couldn't even comprehend.  That'll likely make even the most hardened legion break rank and GTFO.

And again, the rioters weren't just the opportunistic looters looking for free shit.  There were some definite agitators present.  If set upon not by riot police with just non-lethal weapons, but a legion sent in to kill, I suspect they'd fight back with more than just throwing rocks and breaking windows.


I guess that's the critical point on which we differ.

I don't disagree at all that any organized group equipped with modern weapons could scatter a Roman legion.  I just don't see much in the way of organization or resolve at your typical race baiter sponsored riot.  I think a couple guys taking sideways shots with fo-tays aren't going to be enough to panic them.  

A dozen or so with rifles holding their ground?  Sure, but that's no something I've ever seen at a riot...at least not on the side of those doing the rioting.


Link Posted: 1/25/2015 2:00:03 PM EDT
[#16]
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This whole concept has been written about already in David Drake's "Ranks of Bronze" except in this case alien businesses bought Roman soldiers to use on low-tech worlds to achieve business objectives.  A similar book by David Weber is "The Excalibur Alternative".

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Interesting. Thank you
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 2:00:51 PM EDT
[#17]
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I guess that's the critical point on which we differ.

I don't disagree at all that any organized group equipped with modern weapons could scatter a Roman legion.  I just don't see much in the way of organization or resolve at your typical race baiter sponsored riot.  
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Tough enough to watch your buddy take an arrow to the face and keep moving.  We're talking about a group of individuals who are used to seeing the fella on the left and the right get killed on a regular basis.  A group of 5,000 of those types would quickly quell a riot.  

Sure they would get stomped by even a loosely organized group with modern weapons but it's not like your typical rioter is heavily armed with a ton of resolve.  You're talking about a bunch of cowards who only crawl out of the woodwork to steal shit when the law is absent or overwhelmed.  Riot police break these types of events up with shields, sticks, and tear gas.  Now we are upping the ante to a Roman Legion with no fucks left to give?  Slaughter.



It isn't like the Roman legions never broke ranks and ran.  I think it is very reasonable to think that when faced with a completely foreign technology, one that seems to magically kill you from a distance and is fucking loud to boot, would cause them to do so.  Especially when only a few can wield such weapons and quickly mow down the first rank.  And again, no Roman ever saw a one and a half ton truck plow into the line at a speed they couldn't even comprehend.  That'll likely make even the most hardened legion break rank and GTFO.

And again, the rioters weren't just the opportunistic looters looking for free shit.  There were some definite agitators present.  If set upon not by riot police with just non-lethal weapons, but a legion sent in to kill, I suspect they'd fight back with more than just throwing rocks and breaking windows.


I guess that's the critical point on which we differ.

I don't disagree at all that any organized group equipped with modern weapons could scatter a Roman legion.  I just don't see much in the way of organization or resolve at your typical race baiter sponsored riot.  


Point is though, it only take s a few to turn the advantage to the protesters.  One guy decides to hop in a truck and plow into the Romans, and the entire tide of battle shifts.  A few more protesters quickly see how their technological advantage is insurmountable, and pretty soon you have a potential rout on.

Hell, just a few gangbangers on rooftops with firearms could probably cause the legion to flee.  

One massive advantage the protesters would have is the ability to fight in the third dimension...vertical.  Raining down either bullets or molotov cocktails on the legion below from elevated positions in building windows.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 2:01:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
They are given one order---Break up this riot as you would in Rome.

What would the body count be?  
(Using their standard weapons and with their standard unit configuration---alla of cavalry, ballistae etc. )http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/9b/84/29/9b8429ddac0cd87b9e9a47bf0eb8ffa4.jpg
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All of them!  Seriously.  And their bodies would be displayed as a warning to neighboring counties.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 2:02:23 PM EDT
[#19]
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The Roman legion will set up camp near one of Ferguson's creeks and ponds use them as a water source, since they now fuck all about modern plumbing and water pollution levels. Within a few days they will all be sick from various illnesses and most will be dead within a few weeks. Survivors will ask for govt handouts and become the new rabble of Ferguson, supported completely by the govt with bread and circuses and they are used to. If not, they will riot. Or are we making believe that most Romans wouldn't vote Democrat in heart beat? The Roman Populares party and the modern liberal progressives differed only slightly.  
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Or, because of their habit of rapine they would introduce a formerly unknown gonorrhea and the pro Michael crowd would be dead after a few years anyway.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 2:03:34 PM EDT
[#20]
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That would give the rioters an undeniable force multiplier but you'd be naive if you think that men who had fought and marched and killed and watched people die appallingly all their lives would just break formation and run away with the first casualty. As if they never faced war elephants, war dogs, incendiary pigs, scythed chariots, horse archers and cataphracts, balista and onagers, blue celts fighting naked and high on druid potions, northern berserkers in uncontrollable bloodlust trance and battle-axes that cleave man and horse in two. War, killing and dying was their business and they were its professionals.
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They would flee in terror and confusion at the sight of the modern world.


Correct.

A pickup truck with three or four guys in the bed with semi autos (either pistols or rifles) or shotguns would break any Roman formation pretty damn quick.

That would give the rioters an undeniable force multiplier but you'd be naive if you think that men who had fought and marched and killed and watched people die appallingly all their lives would just break formation and run away with the first casualty. As if they never faced war elephants, war dogs, incendiary pigs, scythed chariots, horse archers and cataphracts, balista and onagers, blue celts fighting naked and high on druid potions, northern berserkers in uncontrollable bloodlust trance and battle-axes that cleave man and horse in two. War, killing and dying was their business and they were its professionals.

If a Roman broke formation, they most likely would die anyway. The Romans were not a forgiving bunch. You have nothing to gain by breaking formation.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 2:05:17 PM EDT
[#21]
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Point is though, it only take s a few to turn the advantage to the protesters.  One guy decides to hop in a truck and plow into the Romans, and the entire tide of battle shifts.  A few more protesters quickly see how their technological advantage is insurmountable, and pretty soon you have a potential rout on.

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Tough enough to watch your buddy take an arrow to the face and keep moving.  We're talking about a group of individuals who are used to seeing the fella on the left and the right get killed on a regular basis.  A group of 5,000 of those types would quickly quell a riot.  

Sure they would get stomped by even a loosely organized group with modern weapons but it's not like your typical rioter is heavily armed with a ton of resolve.  You're talking about a bunch of cowards who only crawl out of the woodwork to steal shit when the law is absent or overwhelmed.  Riot police break these types of events up with shields, sticks, and tear gas.  Now we are upping the ante to a Roman Legion with no fucks left to give?  Slaughter.



It isn't like the Roman legions never broke ranks and ran.  I think it is very reasonable to think that when faced with a completely foreign technology, one that seems to magically kill you from a distance and is fucking loud to boot, would cause them to do so.  Especially when only a few can wield such weapons and quickly mow down the first rank.  And again, no Roman ever saw a one and a half ton truck plow into the line at a speed they couldn't even comprehend.  That'll likely make even the most hardened legion break rank and GTFO.

And again, the rioters weren't just the opportunistic looters looking for free shit.  There were some definite agitators present.  If set upon not by riot police with just non-lethal weapons, but a legion sent in to kill, I suspect they'd fight back with more than just throwing rocks and breaking windows.


I guess that's the critical point on which we differ.

I don't disagree at all that any organized group equipped with modern weapons could scatter a Roman legion.  I just don't see much in the way of organization or resolve at your typical race baiter sponsored riot.  


Point is though, it only take s a few to turn the advantage to the protesters.  One guy decides to hop in a truck and plow into the Romans, and the entire tide of battle shifts.  A few more protesters quickly see how their technological advantage is insurmountable, and pretty soon you have a potential rout on.



I'm not disagree with the mechanisms by which it could be done.  I'm just saying that finding people that bold at a riot to climb in a truck and charge 5,000 legionaries might be a tall order.

I'm a modern human and I would be shit my pants terrified at the sight of 5,000 guys with spears coming my way on the street.  I would have zero comfort in the numbers of fellow rioters around me.  We're not talking about a band of brothers in the Steven Spielberg sense.

Link Posted: 1/25/2015 2:06:55 PM EDT
[#22]

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Or, because of their habit of rapine they would introduce a formerly unknown gonorrhea and the pro Michael crowd would be dead after a few years anyway.
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Quoted:

The Roman legion will set up camp near one of Ferguson's creeks and ponds use them as a water source, since they now fuck all about modern plumbing and water pollution levels. Within a few days they will all be sick from various illnesses and most will be dead within a few weeks. Survivors will ask for govt handouts and become the new rabble of Ferguson, supported completely by the govt with bread and circuses and they are used to. If not, they will riot. Or are we making believe that most Romans wouldn't vote Democrat in heart beat? The Roman Populares party and the modern liberal progressives differed only slightly.  


Or, because of their habit of rapine they would introduce a formerly unknown gonorrhea and the pro Michael crowd would be dead after a few years anyway.
Actually, it would go the opposite. All current living human ancestors were exposed to whatever veneral diseases the Romans would have. Meanwhile, we got a whole shitload of stuff they've never had. The first time a protester sneezes on one of them would see half their camp dead.

 
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 2:07:48 PM EDT
[#23]

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If a Roman broke formation, they most likely would die anyway. The Romans were not a forgiving bunch. You have nothing to gain by breaking formation.
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They would flee in terror and confusion at the sight of the modern world.




Correct.



A pickup truck with three or four guys in the bed with semi autos (either pistols or rifles) or shotguns would break any Roman formation pretty damn quick.



That would give the rioters an undeniable force multiplier but you'd be naive if you think that men who had fought and marched and killed and watched people die appallingly all their lives would just break formation and run away with the first casualty. As if they never faced war elephants, war dogs, incendiary pigs, scythed chariots, horse archers and cataphracts, balista and onagers, blue celts fighting naked and high on druid potions, northern berserkers in uncontrollable bloodlust trance and battle-axes that cleave man and horse in two. War, killing and dying was their business and they were its professionals.


If a Roman broke formation, they most likely would die anyway. The Romans were not a forgiving bunch. You have nothing to gain by breaking formation.
And yet they did it constantly. Rome lost about 1/4 to 1/3 the battles it fought in its history. They weren't unbeatable.

 
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 2:08:29 PM EDT
[#24]
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I'm not disagree with the mechanisms by which it could be done.  I'm just saying that finding people that bold at a riot to climb in a truck and charge 5,000 legionaries might be a tall order.

I'm a modern human and I would be shit my pants terrified at the sight of 5,000 guys with spears coming my way on the street.  I would have zero comfort in the numbers of fellow rioters around me.  We're not talking about a band of brothers in the Steven Spielberg sense.

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All true, but even among those protesters, again, there were at least some veterans, and at least some slightly more educated folk who would know that simply fleeing would result in certain death.  And given the gross technology gap, it only takes a couple to act.

Might be a tall order, sure, but I think in a full on engagement where it quickly became clear this is not just a tear gas and rubber bullets situation, somebody fights back.  They always do.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 2:09:26 PM EDT
[#25]
It would be like facing 5000 Frankie Edgars.



Very few rioters and protestors are armed and those who have firearms are rarely trained and organized.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 2:10:30 PM EDT
[#26]
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And yet they did it constantly. Rome lost about 1/4 to 1/3 the battles it fought in its history. They weren't unbeatable.  
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Most people don't realize this.  Rome failed a lot.  One of the their strong suits was persistence and resources.  Raise more legions, go try again.

ETA, let us not forget, they had to take several cracks at quelling a slave rebellion (Spartacus).  And none of those slaves had access to dump trucks and guns.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 2:25:17 PM EDT
[#27]

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Most people don't realize this.  Rome failed a lot.  One of the their strong suits was persistence and resources.  Raise more legions, go try again.



ETA, let us not forget, they had to take several cracks at quelling a slave rebellion (Spartacus).  And none of those slaves had access to dump trucks and guns.
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And yet they did it constantly. Rome lost about 1/4 to 1/3 the battles it fought in its history. They weren't unbeatable.  




Most people don't realize this.  Rome failed a lot.  One of the their strong suits was persistence and resources.  Raise more legions, go try again.



ETA, let us not forget, they had to take several cracks at quelling a slave rebellion (Spartacus).  And none of those slaves had access to dump trucks and guns.
Yep. Not only that, but people are describing the Roman army as if it was a singular entity that didn't change over the course of 1,000 years. It varied so much that even during a specific year, two legions serving in two different armies would be near night and day different from one another. Even the best legions in Rome's history suffered losses in battle, mutinies, mass hysteria, and loss of morale and discipline. Having to encounter even some "simple" field expedients modern weapons like heavy trucks used for ramming (ultimate shock troops 1,000 times more efficient than elephants or cataphracts), molotov cocktails, pistols, rifles, etc. How hard would it be to come up with a modern type of naphtha, which was a major terror weapon in the ancient period. How about explosives? Explode a propane tank or gas station near the legion as it marches and they'll think the world is ending.





 
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 2:41:21 PM EDT
[#28]
I am on the side of a slaughter of the Romans.

The have no offense that will effect a car, and no defensive against a car driven into the.  You can kill an elephant, but how is the Roman Legion going to kill a Toyota Camry.  


If they form a phalanx, more of them die.    Those that survive the first day would adapt, but their training is not going to apply to what they need to do.  But even a Molotv Cocktail is going to be hi tech for them to figure out.  It isn't obvious that a gas pump will give you an inflammable liquid.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 2:44:07 PM EDT
[#29]
It would take 15 minutes to teach the legionaires to use a break action rifle. Show them how it works and what it does. Simple H&R in 223 with a red dot.

Ok you just put the dot on your target and boom, reload. Rinse, lather, and repeat.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 2:54:20 PM EDT
[#30]
Jesus fuck, the retard level has gotten out of control.

First we had rioters.
Then we had rioters with guns.
Then we had organized rioters with guns.
Then we had organized rioters with guns and molotov cocktails.
Then we had organized rioters with guns, molotov cocktails, and are fearless.
Then we had organized rioters with guns, molotov cocktails, are fearless, and drive pickup trucks.
Then we had organized rioters with guns, molotov cocktails, are fearless, drive pickup trucks, and have possession of an impenetrable dump truck of doom.

I KNOW! One of those rioters is actually a part of a tank unit and now the Romans are against a M1A1 Abrams.

What will the rioters get next time? Also, why exactly would the Romans skip throwing their pilums into the car/truck and turning the driver, radiator, and tires into porcupines?
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 2:56:53 PM EDT
[#31]


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It would take 15 minutes to teach the legionaires to use a break action rifle. Show them how it works and what it does. Simple H&R in 223 with a red dot.





Ok you just put the dot on your target and boom, reload. Rinse, lather, and repeat.
View Quote




It would take 15 minutes to teach the legionaires not to rob, rape, and murder the instructor that's supposed to teach them how to use a rifle. Then it would take them about 2 weeks for them to come to terms with concepts such as guns, gun powder, electricity, etc. Lots of suicides. You'd go through about four instructors during that period, as the pissed off barbarians would lose control and kill the people that say things that counter what they believe about the world. The first person who plays Richard Dawkins/Its Cool to Shit on People's Beliefs and poopoos their pantheon of religions is going to get crucified.







Meanwhile, the officers will be having drinking binge parties every night and during the day will be in the surrounding National Wildlife Areas around Missouri hunting white tail.







The worst modern African warlord scum would still do better learning new methods of warfare than a typical Roman soldier.

 
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 3:01:28 PM EDT
[#32]



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Jesus fuck, the retard level has gotten out of control.
First we had rioters.



Then we had rioters with guns.



Then we had organized rioters with guns.



Then we had organized rioters with guns and molotov cocktails.



Then we had organized rioters with guns, molotov cocktails, and are fearless.



Then we had organized rioters with guns, molotov cocktails, are fearless, and drive pickup trucks.



Then we had organized rioters with guns, molotov cocktails, are fearless, drive pickup trucks, and have possession of an impenetrable dump truck of doom.
I KNOW! One of those rioters is actually a part of a tank unit and now the Romans are against a M1A1 Abrams.
What will the rioters get next time? Also, why exactly would the Romans skip throwing their pilums into the car/truck and turning the driver, radiator, and tires into porcupines?
View Quote
If you want to play this game, imagining a fully armed Roman Legion is going to quell a riot, then it goes both ways.


Rioters don't mean unarmed people. As it is in real life, they have molotov cocktails, guns, and other stuff. Most have things like cars. The only reason they didn't drive them into the cops, or shoot at the cops with more guns, is because of the issues of the modern police and Nat'l Guard going Kent State on their asses.










It seems the point of this thread is to jerk off to ideas of rioters getting pinned with pilum and gutted with swords. But that's bullshit. First, modern police are far deadlier than a Roman legion and are only held back by ROEs. Second, the Legion itself would likely get their asses handed up on a platter when they encounter weapons and field expedient tactics that would to them seem like magic and be far deadlier than a spear, javelin, stone, or sword.










Lastly, if you think a 50 mph truck is going to stop instantly because a lucky javelin hit one of its tires, it might be you who is retarded. Momentum would carry it though the entire battle line. Followed up with two or three others, battles fucking over right there. Luckily, modern rioters wouldn't have a means of chasing down and killing the fleeing soldiers (who'd toss their weapons and armor), at least not too many. The surviving Romans would run back to their camp which would then be bombarded with molotov cocktails launched by bungee cords, which would light all their tents on fire. Freezing and without shelter or weapons, with lots of their leadership being splattered messes on the highways, they'd surrender and the rioters would turn them into slaves...


 
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 3:02:08 PM EDT
[#33]
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Actually, it would go the opposite. All current living human ancestors were exposed to whatever veneral diseases the Romans would have. Meanwhile, we got a whole shitload of stuff they've never had. The first time a protester sneezes on one of them would see half their camp dead.  
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The Roman legion will set up camp near one of Ferguson's creeks and ponds use them as a water source, since they now fuck all about modern plumbing and water pollution levels. Within a few days they will all be sick from various illnesses and most will be dead within a few weeks. Survivors will ask for govt handouts and become the new rabble of Ferguson, supported completely by the govt with bread and circuses and they are used to. If not, they will riot. Or are we making believe that most Romans wouldn't vote Democrat in heart beat? The Roman Populares party and the modern liberal progressives differed only slightly.  

Or, because of their habit of rapine they would introduce a formerly unknown gonorrhea and the pro Michael crowd would be dead after a few years anyway.
Actually, it would go the opposite. All current living human ancestors were exposed to whatever veneral diseases the Romans would have. Meanwhile, we got a whole shitload of stuff they've never had. The first time a protester sneezes on one of them would see half their camp dead.  

Hell, they'd just drink another quart of grape vinegar and keep  on fighting.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 3:08:23 PM EDT
[#34]

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Hell, they'd just drink another quart of grape vinegar and keep  on fighting.
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Quoted:


Quoted:


Quoted:

The Roman legion will set up camp near one of Ferguson's creeks and ponds use them as a water source, since they now fuck all about modern plumbing and water pollution levels. Within a few days they will all be sick from various illnesses and most will be dead within a few weeks. Survivors will ask for govt handouts and become the new rabble of Ferguson, supported completely by the govt with bread and circuses and they are used to. If not, they will riot. Or are we making believe that most Romans wouldn't vote Democrat in heart beat? The Roman Populares party and the modern liberal progressives differed only slightly.  


Or, because of their habit of rapine they would introduce a formerly unknown gonorrhea and the pro Michael crowd would be dead after a few years anyway.
Actually, it would go the opposite. All current living human ancestors were exposed to whatever veneral diseases the Romans would have. Meanwhile, we got a whole shitload of stuff they've never had. The first time a protester sneezes on one of them would see half their camp dead.  


Hell, they'd just drink another quart of grape vinegar and keep  on fighting.
Are you referring to posca? If so, it had some mild antiseptic and antibacterial properties from the acidic vinegar, but its not going to stop their dicks from falling off. Or the various cold, flus, and other shit from killing them in large numbers.

 
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 3:11:18 PM EDT
[#35]
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Quoted:

It would take 15 minutes to teach the legionaires not to rob, rape, and murder the instructor that's supposed to teach them how to use a rifle. Then it would take them about 2 weeks for them to come to terms with concepts such as guns, gun powder, electricity, etc. Lots of suicides. You'd go through about four instructors during that period, as the pissed off barbarians would lose control and kill the people that say things that counter what they believe about the world. The first person who plays Richard Dawkins/Its Cool to Shit on People's Beliefs and poopoos their pantheon of religions is going to get crucified.


Meanwhile, the officers will be having drinking binge parties every night and during the day will be in the surrounding National Wildlife Areas around Missouri hunting white tail.

The worst modern African warlord scum would still do better learning new methods of warfare than a typical Roman soldier.
 
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Quoted:
It would take 15 minutes to teach the legionaires to use a break action rifle. Show them how it works and what it does. Simple H&R in 223 with a red dot.

Ok you just put the dot on your target and boom, reload. Rinse, lather, and repeat.

It would take 15 minutes to teach the legionaires not to rob, rape, and murder the instructor that's supposed to teach them how to use a rifle. Then it would take them about 2 weeks for them to come to terms with concepts such as guns, gun powder, electricity, etc. Lots of suicides. You'd go through about four instructors during that period, as the pissed off barbarians would lose control and kill the people that say things that counter what they believe about the world. The first person who plays Richard Dawkins/Its Cool to Shit on People's Beliefs and poopoos their pantheon of religions is going to get crucified.


Meanwhile, the officers will be having drinking binge parties every night and during the day will be in the surrounding National Wildlife Areas around Missouri hunting white tail.

The worst modern African warlord scum would still do better learning new methods of warfare than a typical Roman soldier.
 

Link Posted: 1/25/2015 3:27:35 PM EDT
[#36]
Body count? Hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions.

Would you transport a Roman Legion to every city?  Because after trying to brutally put down a protest in Fergason that's what you'd have to do.  But on the upside, they won't have to deal with chaotic riots anymore.  It would morph into a full-fledged sectarian guerilla war.   It wouldn't just be "race war" either.  It would draw in other demographics to fight.

...the sad part is the poor little dudes (average height 5'5") in your Roman legions teleported in from the first millennium wouldn't last very long, as you'd probably not have enough latin speaking military trainers to retrain them and bring them up to speed.

You'd have a real problem.  Ultimately your regime would fail, it's leaders imprisoned or killed.  

THE END.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 3:43:58 PM EDT
[#37]
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That video is more choreographed than dancing with the stars. Let's see how the South Koreans do against an actual group of people who aren't fucking around, not OPFOR.    

This is more of how a Roman fight would go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bgcwkNLY814#!

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That video is more choreographed than dancing with the stars. Let's see how the South Koreans do against an actual group of people who aren't fucking around, not OPFOR.    

This is more of how a Roman fight would go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bgcwkNLY814#!



That's a lot of pissed off lab techs... pretty effective use of science sticks there..
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 3:49:11 PM EDT
[#38]
I think the Romans would simply put everyone to the sword.

Drop them in Ferguson and tell them "restore order however you see fit." They'd show up, take a few rounds from guys with Jennings and Lorcins and Hi-points lurking back, decide "enough of this" and charge the rioters, probably in open order and with cavalry support. The shooters would probably be the equivalent of skirmishers or harassing archers. The shooters would run, and the legion would get all stabby with anyone they caught up with, shooter or not. Once on the run the effectiveness of the shooters drops, and they've probably only got a mag or two apiece. There are probably a few hundred armed rioters.

Anyone not stabbed gets sold into slavery or crucified.  The legion takes casualties, but not all that many.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 3:49:36 PM EDT
[#39]
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If you want to play this game, imagining a fully armed Roman Legion is going to quell a riot, then it goes both ways. Rioters don't mean unarmed people. As it is in real life, they have molotov cocktails, guns, and other stuff. Most have things like cars. The only reason they didn't drive them into the cops, or shoot at the cops with more guns, is because of the issues of the modern police and Nat'l Guard going Kent State on their asses.

It seems the point of this thread is to jerk off to ideas of rioters getting pinned with pilum and gutted with swords. But that's bullshit. First, modern police are far deadlier than a Roman legion and are only held back by ROEs. Second, the Legion itself would likely get their asses handed up on a platter when they encounter weapons and field expedient tactics that would to them seem like magic and be far deadlier than a spear, javelin, stone, or sword.

Lastly, if you think a 50 mph truck is going to stop instantly because a lucky javelin hit one of its tires, it might be you who is retarded. Momentum would carry it though the entire battle line. Followed up with two or three others, battles fucking over right there. Luckily, modern rioters wouldn't have a means of chasing down and killing the fleeing soldiers (who'd toss their weapons and armor), at least not too many. The surviving Romans would run back to their camp which would then be bombarded with molotov cocktails launched by bungee cords, which would light all their tents on fire. Freezing and without shelter or weapons, with lots of their leadership being splattered messes on the highways, they'd surrender and the rioters would turn them into slaves...
 
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Jesus fuck, the retard level has gotten out of control.

First we had rioters.
Then we had rioters with guns.
Then we had organized rioters with guns.
Then we had organized rioters with guns and molotov cocktails.
Then we had organized rioters with guns, molotov cocktails, and are fearless.
Then we had organized rioters with guns, molotov cocktails, are fearless, and drive pickup trucks.
Then we had organized rioters with guns, molotov cocktails, are fearless, drive pickup trucks, and have possession of an impenetrable dump truck of doom.

I KNOW! One of those rioters is actually a part of a tank unit and now the Romans are against a M1A1 Abrams.

What will the rioters get next time? Also, why exactly would the Romans skip throwing their pilums into the car/truck and turning the driver, radiator, and tires into porcupines?
If you want to play this game, imagining a fully armed Roman Legion is going to quell a riot, then it goes both ways. Rioters don't mean unarmed people. As it is in real life, they have molotov cocktails, guns, and other stuff. Most have things like cars. The only reason they didn't drive them into the cops, or shoot at the cops with more guns, is because of the issues of the modern police and Nat'l Guard going Kent State on their asses.

It seems the point of this thread is to jerk off to ideas of rioters getting pinned with pilum and gutted with swords. But that's bullshit. First, modern police are far deadlier than a Roman legion and are only held back by ROEs. Second, the Legion itself would likely get their asses handed up on a platter when they encounter weapons and field expedient tactics that would to them seem like magic and be far deadlier than a spear, javelin, stone, or sword.

Lastly, if you think a 50 mph truck is going to stop instantly because a lucky javelin hit one of its tires, it might be you who is retarded. Momentum would carry it though the entire battle line. Followed up with two or three others, battles fucking over right there. Luckily, modern rioters wouldn't have a means of chasing down and killing the fleeing soldiers (who'd toss their weapons and armor), at least not too many. The surviving Romans would run back to their camp which would then be bombarded with molotov cocktails launched by bungee cords, which would light all their tents on fire. Freezing and without shelter or weapons, with lots of their leadership being splattered messes on the highways, they'd surrender and the rioters would turn them into slaves...
 

No organzied group did anything except steal wigs and burn buildings. They didn't firebomb the police, because they knew the consequences. They didn't shoot. They didn't ambush. They didn't find trucks to drive through the lines. They didn't make molotov slingshots.

They ran. They ran away quickly, they scattered like cockroaches, and the few people who caused problems got dealt with quickly. The only difference is that the Romans aren't going to sit and bash away stones and bottles being thrown without throwing some javelins in return, if not outright charging the group.

There's more chances of a Roman Legion coming through a time warp then organized FSA resistance.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 3:52:23 PM EDT
[#40]
A man can dream.  A man can dream.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 4:04:37 PM EDT
[#41]
Come for the massacre and stay for the crucifixions.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 4:13:21 PM EDT
[#42]
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Quoted:
Are you referring to posca? If so, it had some mild antiseptic and antibacterial properties from the acidic vinegar, but its not going to stop their dicks from falling off. Or the various cold, flus, and other shit from killing them in large numbers.  
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The Roman legion will set up camp near one of Ferguson's creeks and ponds use them as a water source, since they now fuck all about modern plumbing and water pollution levels. Within a few days they will all be sick from various illnesses and most will be dead within a few weeks. Survivors will ask for govt handouts and become the new rabble of Ferguson, supported completely by the govt with bread and circuses and they are used to. If not, they will riot. Or are we making believe that most Romans wouldn't vote Democrat in heart beat? The Roman Populares party and the modern liberal progressives differed only slightly.  

Or, because of their habit of rapine they would introduce a formerly unknown gonorrhea and the pro Michael crowd would be dead after a few years anyway.
Actually, it would go the opposite. All current living human ancestors were exposed to whatever veneral diseases the Romans would have. Meanwhile, we got a whole shitload of stuff they've never had. The first time a protester sneezes on one of them would see half their camp dead.  

Hell, they'd just drink another quart of grape vinegar and keep  on fighting.
Are you referring to posca? If so, it had some mild antiseptic and antibacterial properties from the acidic vinegar, but its not going to stop their dicks from falling off. Or the various cold, flus, and other shit from killing them in large numbers.  

Yeah maybe, probably find it hard to find coriander seeds in Michael's neighborhood.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 4:13:56 PM EDT
[#43]

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Quoted:





No organzied group did anything except steal wigs and burn buildings. They didn't firebomb the police, because they knew the consequences. They didn't shoot. They didn't ambush. They didn't find trucks to drive through the lines. They didn't make molotov slingshots.



They ran. They ran away quickly, they scattered like cockroaches, and the few people who caused problems got dealt with quickly. The only difference is that the Romans aren't going to sit and bash away stones and bottles being thrown without throwing some javelins in return, if not outright charging the group.



There's more chances of a Roman Legion coming through a time warp then organized FSA resistance.
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Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

Jesus fuck, the retard level has gotten out of control.



First we had rioters.

Then we had rioters with guns.

Then we had organized rioters with guns.

Then we had organized rioters with guns and molotov cocktails.

Then we had organized rioters with guns, molotov cocktails, and are fearless.

Then we had organized rioters with guns, molotov cocktails, are fearless, and drive pickup trucks.

Then we had organized rioters with guns, molotov cocktails, are fearless, drive pickup trucks, and have possession of an impenetrable dump truck of doom.



I KNOW! One of those rioters is actually a part of a tank unit and now the Romans are against a M1A1 Abrams.



What will the rioters get next time? Also, why exactly would the Romans skip throwing their pilums into the car/truck and turning the driver, radiator, and tires into porcupines?
If you want to play this game, imagining a fully armed Roman Legion is going to quell a riot, then it goes both ways. Rioters don't mean unarmed people. As it is in real life, they have molotov cocktails, guns, and other stuff. Most have things like cars. The only reason they didn't drive them into the cops, or shoot at the cops with more guns, is because of the issues of the modern police and Nat'l Guard going Kent State on their asses.



It seems the point of this thread is to jerk off to ideas of rioters getting pinned with pilum and gutted with swords. But that's bullshit. First, modern police are far deadlier than a Roman legion and are only held back by ROEs. Second, the Legion itself would likely get their asses handed up on a platter when they encounter weapons and field expedient tactics that would to them seem like magic and be far deadlier than a spear, javelin, stone, or sword.



Lastly, if you think a 50 mph truck is going to stop instantly because a lucky javelin hit one of its tires, it might be you who is retarded. Momentum would carry it though the entire battle line. Followed up with two or three others, battles fucking over right there. Luckily, modern rioters wouldn't have a means of chasing down and killing the fleeing soldiers (who'd toss their weapons and armor), at least not too many. The surviving Romans would run back to their camp which would then be bombarded with molotov cocktails launched by bungee cords, which would light all their tents on fire. Freezing and without shelter or weapons, with lots of their leadership being splattered messes on the highways, they'd surrender and the rioters would turn them into slaves...

 


No organzied group did anything except steal wigs and burn buildings. They didn't firebomb the police, because they knew the consequences. They didn't shoot. They didn't ambush. They didn't find trucks to drive through the lines. They didn't make molotov slingshots.



They ran. They ran away quickly, they scattered like cockroaches, and the few people who caused problems got dealt with quickly. The only difference is that the Romans aren't going to sit and bash away stones and bottles being thrown without throwing some javelins in return, if not outright charging the group.



There's more chances of a Roman Legion coming through a time warp then organized FSA resistance.
In Ferguson, things didn't escalate out of control because the police and protesters both knew what the stakes were. Stores could get looted and robbed, and the occasional rock thrown at police, but nothing crazier happened because each side knew if it escalated, it would get a whole lot worse. That goes both ways. While the police could break out shotguns and AR15s and mow down the crowds protesting, the people themselves, FSA types or not, could do their thing and fight back.




Now if you bring in the Romans, all you are doing is stating that you are removing the ROEs, allowing the counter-riot force a free hand. In addition, since Romans possessed less effective weapons and equipment, they'd do worse at it.




Every method I've brought up has in the past been used in riots.

Gun > Sword  

Car > Horse  

Year 2015 mind > Year 100 AD mind




2,000 years of innovation, especially on the cultural side, have occurred since a Roman army last sacked a city. While you might like the idea of FSA getting stabbed to death, the reality is that the first day the Legion came out to play (Romans rarely fought at night), in formed and dressed ranks, with shined armed and honed blades, they'd run like the devil was on their asses the second three stolen Ferguson township school buses plowed into their battle line. Whatever protesters in the area that could see that and would give chase, which is as natural for humans in conflict as breathing. It would be a fucking massacre but not the ones you think it would be.




Ancient Romans were barely civilized warriors, extremely superstitious, from a well organized and highly populous ANCIENT state that lost nearly as many battles as they won but dominated the surrounding areas over their abilities to make allies, their economic might, and by winning wars through occasional brilliance mixed with sheer persistence. Rome was the Hyrda, cut off a head (destroy an army in battle) and two would rise in its place. Jerk off fantasies notwithstanding, they weren't invincible MMA fighters who fought like machines.






Link Posted: 1/25/2015 4:15:15 PM EDT
[#44]
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Quoted:
I think the Romans would simply put everyone to the sword.

Drop them in Ferguson and tell them "restore order however you see fit." They'd show up, take a few rounds from guys with Jennings and Lorcins and Hi-points lurking back, decide "enough of this" and charge the rioters, probably in open order and with cavalry support. The shooters would probably be the equivalent of skirmishers or harassing archers. The shooters would run, and the legion would get all stabby with anyone they caught up with, shooter or not. Once on the run the effectiveness of the shooters drops, and they've probably only got a mag or two apiece. There are probably a few hundred armed rioters.

Anyone not stabbed gets sold into slavery or crucified.  The legion takes casualties, but not all that many.
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damn, wouldn't want to start that cycle again.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 4:16:42 PM EDT
[#45]

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Quoted:


I think the Romans would simply put everyone to the sword.



Drop them in Ferguson and tell them "restore order however you see fit." They'd show up, take a few rounds from guys with Jennings and Lorcins and Hi-points lurking back, decide "enough of this" and charge the rioters, probably in open order and with cavalry support. The shooters would probably be the equivalent of skirmishers or harassing archers. The shooters would run, and the legion would get all stabby with anyone they caught up with, shooter or not. Once on the run the effectiveness of the shooters drops, and they've probably only got a mag or two apiece. There are probably a few hundred armed rioters.



Anyone not stabbed gets sold into slavery or crucified.  The legion takes casualties, but not all that many.
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How would the Roman cohort system do against Honda Civics? Which formation is the best for stopping a 1 ton car going 40 mph? Testudo?



This is a horse (like those used in cavalry) getting hit by a car. Pretty messy:




Link Posted: 1/25/2015 4:18:38 PM EDT
[#46]
OP, in Rome itself, riot suppression was handled by the Cohortes Urbanae who were a paramilitary police organization and basically Roman SWAT.



They would probably be much more effective at dealing with the rioters than a legion.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 4:24:26 PM EDT
[#47]
I read the thread title and a smile crept across my face.
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 4:30:48 PM EDT
[#48]

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Quoted:

The shooters would probably be the equivalent of skirmishers or harassing archers.
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LOL, no. You can't take cover behind your shield when facing modern firearms. If the legion started killing the protesters, the gloves would come off and the rioters would put up fierce resistance.



A dozen Arfcommers armed with AR-15s and sufficient ammo would easily rout and defeat a legion from a distance. By the time they dumped their third mag, there could be up to a thousand Roman casualties. Not sure why one would assume that the rioters have no access to similar firepower, or are not capable of using it.



 
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 4:36:03 PM EDT
[#49]
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Quoted:
Ferguson, things didn't escalate out of control because the police and protesters both knew what the stakes were. Stores could get looted and robbed, and the occasional rock thrown at police, but nothing crazier happened because each side knew if it escalated, it would get a whole lot worse. That goes both ways. While the police could break out shotguns and AR15s and mow down the crowds protesting, the people themselves, FSA types or not, could do their thing and fight back.

Now if you bring in the Romans, all you are doing is stating that you are removing the ROEs, allowing the counter-riot force a free hand. In addition, since Romans possessed less effective weapons and equipment, they'd do worse at it.

Every method I've brought up has in the past been used in riots.
Gun > Sword  
Car > Horse  
Year 2015 mind > Year 100 AD mind

2,000 years of innovation, especially on the cultural side, have occurred since a Roman army last sacked a city. While you might like the idea of FSA getting stabbed to death, the reality is that the first day the Legion came out to play (Romans rarely fought at night), in formed and dressed ranks, with shined armed and honed blades, they'd run like the devil was on their asses the second three stolen Ferguson township school buses plowed into their battle line. Whatever protesters in the area that could see that and would give chase, which is as natural for humans in conflict as breathing. It would be a fucking massacre but not the ones you think it would be.

Ancient Romans were barely civilized warriors, extremely superstitious, from a well organized and highly populous ANCIENT state that lost nearly as many battles as they won but dominated the surrounding areas over their abilities to make allies, their economic might, and by winning wars through occasional brilliance mixed with sheer persistence. Rome was the Hyrda, cut off a head (destroy an army in battle) and two would rise in its place. Jerk off fantasies notwithstanding, they weren't invincible MMA fighters who fought like machines.




View Quote

Gonna call BS.

SJWs aren't going to hang around when the ballista start shooting.
Nuffin-Folk aren't going to hang around when 6,000 pissed off Romans start making kebobs out of the FSA.
The line being crossed at Kent State didn't see a bunch of hippies taking up arms against the National Guard.

Outside of Revolutionary War era things, how many times have people put up an organized resistance in the manner people are talking about. Jermaine and his Merry Band of Fergadishu Crips may have a few guns with a few dozen rounds available for them. The last time we heard about a bus hijacking during an emergency it was someone that stole a municipal bus in NOLA, he turned out to be a good guy.

Lets call it what it is: The Romans come in, pike a few SJWs or Thugs, everyone runs. A few folks "pop caps" in the general direction and miss wildly because they forgot to sight in their Homeboy Sights. The president calls off the legion because "Dear god they killed people who were acting like retards, PROTECT THE RETARDS!"
Link Posted: 1/25/2015 4:43:09 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Jesus fuck, the retard level has gotten out of control.

First we had rioters.
Then we had rioters with guns.
Then we had organized rioters with guns.
Then we had organized rioters with guns and molotov cocktails.
Then we had organized rioters with guns, molotov cocktails, and are fearless.
Then we had organized rioters with guns, molotov cocktails, are fearless, and drive pickup trucks.
Then we had organized rioters with guns, molotov cocktails, are fearless, drive pickup trucks, and have possession of an impenetrable dump truck of doom.

I KNOW! One of those rioters is actually a part of a tank unit and now the Romans are against a M1A1 Abrams.

What will the rioters get next time? Also, why exactly would the Romans skip throwing their pilums into the car/truck and turning the driver, radiator, and tires into porcupines?
View Quote


There are a tremendous number of guns in any city in America.  Some of them will be AR-15s and AK clones.  A lot of them will be shotguns.  There are many vehicles in any city.  All it takes to make a Molotov cocktail is a little bit of gas and an empty Colt 45 Malt Liquor bottle, which I am sure there are many lying around.

If the residents of Ferguson were fighting for their lives they would be a much more formidable force than when they were rioting around Thanksgiving and during the summer when they knew their lives were not in danger and they could go home at any time.

There would be a number of veterans of the  groups and men that could be leaders if the situation demanded it.

I know it is trendy on ARFCOM to demean the FSA and I certainly do my share of that but these are Americans and as we saw during the Civil Rights era they can get organized if they want to.

The Romans were a formidable force in their time fighting against mostly inferior forces but by today's standards they are far less formidable than the military of the worse 3rd or 4th world countries on earth.


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