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Posted: 9/1/2015 12:33:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some of these fortresses in ASOIAF don't terribly make a lot of sense, from a practical standpoint or a realistic one. For example, the Theodosian Walls of Constantinople, regarded as the best defensive fortification in Europe until the advent of the cannon, was only about 18 meters, or 65 feet tall at it's highest points, and 16 feet thick at it's thickest.. Contrast that to Storm's End, whose curtain walls are 100 feet high and forty feet thick.  So, going by that logic and what GRRM has told us, we can assume that Harrenhal's walls would at least be 120 feet high and 50 feet thick. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Does anyone know of the exact height and thickness of Harrenhal's walls? I know that they supposed to be among the biggest in Westeros, easily surpassing those of Storm's End, but I can't find any specific measurements on them, except for "as high as the Great Keep in Winterfell." that's the kind of detail grrm likes to leave out to give him flexibility. all i can find is that it's almost more suited to giants than men and the walls are so high you can barely see the towers behind them. the godswood is over 20 acres per asoiaf wiki and the main gate is thick enough for a dozen murder holes. and the 35 hearths were big enough to park a wagon in them if i remember correctly Some of these fortresses in ASOIAF don't terribly make a lot of sense, from a practical standpoint or a realistic one. For example, the Theodosian Walls of Constantinople, regarded as the best defensive fortification in Europe until the advent of the cannon, was only about 18 meters, or 65 feet tall at it's highest points, and 16 feet thick at it's thickest.. Contrast that to Storm's End, whose curtain walls are 100 feet high and forty feet thick. So, going by that logic and what GRRM has told us, we can assume that Harrenhal's walls would at least be 120 feet high and 50 feet thick. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 5:10:33 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, it's like one of two areas where GRRM really goes bonkers. The other is the longevity of the Great Houses. No actual medieval house ruled as long as the Starks, Lannisters, Arryn's, etc. Way to easy to die for a house to last that long. For instance, the Hapsburgs were one of the longest-lived at like 600-700 years of being at least relatively powerful. The Starks were Kings of the North for thousands of years. To be fair, there are maesters in the story that say the 8,000 year timeline is complete poppycock. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 6:42:07 PM EDT
[#3]
Odds to win Best Drama at the 2015 Emmy Awards:
Mad Men -180 Game of Thrones +120 House of Cards +500 Orange is the New Black +1500 Better Call Saul +2500 Downton Abbey +2500 Homeland +5000 |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 7:27:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some of these fortresses in ASOIAF don't terribly make a lot of sense, from a practical standpoint or a realistic one. For example, the Theodosian Walls of Constantinople, regarded as the best defensive fortification in Europe until the advent of the cannon, was only about 18 meters, or 65 feet tall at it's highest points, and 16 feet thick at it's thickest.. Contrast that to Storm's End, whose curtain walls are 100 feet high and forty feet thick.
So, going by that logic and what GRRM has told us, we can assume that Harrenhal's walls would at least be 120 feet high and 50 feet thick. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does anyone know of the exact height and thickness of Harrenhal's walls? I know that they supposed to be among the biggest in Westeros, easily surpassing those of Storm's End, but I can't find any specific measurements on them, except for "as high as the Great Keep in Winterfell." that's the kind of detail grrm likes to leave out to give him flexibility. all i can find is that it's almost more suited to giants than men and the walls are so high you can barely see the towers behind them. the godswood is over 20 acres per asoiaf wiki and the main gate is thick enough for a dozen murder holes. and the 35 hearths were big enough to park a wagon in them if i remember correctly Some of these fortresses in ASOIAF don't terribly make a lot of sense, from a practical standpoint or a realistic one. For example, the Theodosian Walls of Constantinople, regarded as the best defensive fortification in Europe until the advent of the cannon, was only about 18 meters, or 65 feet tall at it's highest points, and 16 feet thick at it's thickest.. Contrast that to Storm's End, whose curtain walls are 100 feet high and forty feet thick.
So, going by that logic and what GRRM has told us, we can assume that Harrenhal's walls would at least be 120 feet high and 50 feet thick. i have no problem with the scale. as is very often the case in the fantasy genre, GRRM sets up a technologically stagnant world that has regressed from an age of magic. as i read it, westeros has been analogous to 'medieval' for some thousands of years. had gunpowder not been developed, the massive star fortifications we see in europe and the US would likely have been bigger evolutions of traditional curtain wall structures. in addition, tyre's walls were almost 200', and that was several hundred years BC, so it's not like there isn't a precedent. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 8:47:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
in addition, Tyre's walls were almost 200', and that was several hundred years BC, so it's not like there isn't a precedent.  
Damn, and it pissed off Alexander so badly that he massacred about 8,000 Tyrians and destroyed half the city, and sold 30,000 of them into slavery. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 9:52:19 PM EDT
[#6]
Danish actor Pilou Asbæk has reportedly been cast to play Euron Greyjoy.
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:01:17 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Danish actor Pilou Asbæk has reportedly been cast to play Euron Greyjoy. http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Pilou+Asbaek+60th+Berlin+Film+Festival+En+xYT4CAiPP8Pl.jpg Nice! Still like to see Ray Stevenson as Victarion, though. 
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Posted: 9/1/2015 11:36:36 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some of these fortresses in ASOIAF don't terribly make a lot of sense, from a practical standpoint or a realistic one. For example, the Theodosian Walls of Constantinople, regarded as the best defensive fortification in Europe until the advent of the cannon, was only about 18 meters, or 65 feet tall at it's highest points, and 16 feet thick at it's thickest.. Contrast that to Storm's End, whose curtain walls are 100 feet high and forty feet thick.
So, going by that logic and what GRRM has told us, we can assume that Harrenhal's walls would at least be 120 feet high and 50 feet thick. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does anyone know of the exact height and thickness of Harrenhal's walls? I know that they supposed to be among the biggest in Westeros, easily surpassing those of Storm's End, but I can't find any specific measurements on them, except for "as high as the Great Keep in Winterfell." that's the kind of detail grrm likes to leave out to give him flexibility. all i can find is that it's almost more suited to giants than men and the walls are so high you can barely see the towers behind them. the godswood is over 20 acres per asoiaf wiki and the main gate is thick enough for a dozen murder holes. and the 35 hearths were big enough to park a wagon in them if i remember correctly Some of these fortresses in ASOIAF don't terribly make a lot of sense, from a practical standpoint or a realistic one. For example, the Theodosian Walls of Constantinople, regarded as the best defensive fortification in Europe until the advent of the cannon, was only about 18 meters, or 65 feet tall at it's highest points, and 16 feet thick at it's thickest.. Contrast that to Storm's End, whose curtain walls are 100 feet high and forty feet thick.
So, going by that logic and what GRRM has told us, we can assume that Harrenhal's walls would at least be 120 feet high and 50 feet thick. the eyrie and his vision of the iron throne (rickety pile of blades vs the ordered show version) don't make practical sense either. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 11:49:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the eyrie and his vision of the iron throne (rickety pile of blades vs the ordered show version) don't make practical sense either. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does anyone know of the exact height and thickness of Harrenhal's walls? I know that they supposed to be among the biggest in Westeros, easily surpassing those of Storm's End, but I can't find any specific measurements on them, except for "as high as the Great Keep in Winterfell." that's the kind of detail grrm likes to leave out to give him flexibility. all i can find is that it's almost more suited to giants than men and the walls are so high you can barely see the towers behind them. the godswood is over 20 acres per asoiaf wiki and the main gate is thick enough for a dozen murder holes. and the 35 hearths were big enough to park a wagon in them if i remember correctly Some of these fortresses in ASOIAF don't terribly make a lot of sense, from a practical standpoint or a realistic one. For example, the Theodosian Walls of Constantinople, regarded as the best defensive fortification in Europe until the advent of the cannon, was only about 18 meters, or 65 feet tall at it's highest points, and 16 feet thick at it's thickest.. Contrast that to Storm's End, whose curtain walls are 100 feet high and forty feet thick.
So, going by that logic and what GRRM has told us, we can assume that Harrenhal's walls would at least be 120 feet high and 50 feet thick. the eyrie and his vision of the iron throne (rickety pile of blades vs the ordered show version) don't make practical sense either. The Iron Throne in the books is better depicted in World of Ice and Fire, and I think GRRM's on record saying that's how he imagined it. It's not a rickety pile of blades, but it's not the show version either. |
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Posted: 9/2/2015 2:47:10 AM EDT
[#10]
i saw some pics that were supposed to be more in scale with his imagination. it's one deviation i think the tv show did extremely well.
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Posted: 9/2/2015 2:49:26 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i saw some pics that were supposed to be more in scale with his imagination. it's one deviation i think the tv show did extremely well. Have you read World of Ice and Fire? |
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Posted: 9/2/2015 3:26:56 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have you read World of Ice and Fire? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
i saw some pics that were supposed to be more in scale with his imagination. it's one deviation i think the tv show did extremely well. Have you read World of Ice and Fire? not yet. i need to see if my library has it or can get it...or check amazon |
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Posted: 9/2/2015 12:06:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: in addition, tyre's walls were almost 200', and that was several hundred years BC, so it's not like there isn't a precedent. |
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Posted: 9/2/2015 12:08:29 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good point in that building such a structure was a feasibility. However, it would still not be practical for the technology of Westeros. Siege weapons were more primitive in the time of Alexander. A medieval trebuchet would turn that into a nice rubble ramp for the army to cross. Constantinople is a better example of an ideal medieval fortification. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
in addition, tyre's walls were almost 200', and that was several hundred years BC, so it's not like there isn't a precedent. Triple layered walls for the mother-fucking win. 
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Posted: 9/2/2015 7:50:18 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good point in that building such a structure was a feasibility. However, it would still not be practical for the technology of Westeros. Siege weapons were more primitive in the time of Alexander. A medieval trebuchet would turn that into a nice rubble ramp for the army to cross. Constantinople is a better example of an ideal medieval fortification. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
in addition, tyre's walls were almost 200', and that was several hundred years BC, so it's not like there isn't a precedent. i'm going to disagree, insofar as the only tangible evidence of westerosi construction technology in hand is that such structures (100-120' curtain walled structures) were indeed built. harren built one of the most formidable structures in the kingdom, and he was a jumped-up minor noble. all it takes is a good architect, a workforce, and time. although siege engineering was well-established, it can't be considered in a vacuum. a fortification is more than just passive walls--it's part of a system of defense. we see counter-battery thinking in the king's landing attack. terrain has to be considered. and more than anything, logistics is the essence of siege warfare. all of these factors make it more complicated to deploy field artillery sufficient to breach the kinds of walls we're discussing (which protect the seats of military/economic power for their respective owners). a wall on its own means nothing. the purpose of a wall is to buy time for the defender. |
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Posted: 9/4/2015 2:19:03 AM EDT
[#16]
Aeron Greyjoy has been cast. No word yet on who will be playing him.
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Posted: 9/4/2015 2:25:26 AM EDT
[#17]
Confirmed location spoiler for Theon:
Click To View Spoiler Probable, but unconfirmed location spoiler regarding Jaime, Ayra, and Bronn: Click To View Spoiler |
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Posted: 9/4/2015 2:38:53 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Triple layered walls for the mother-fucking win. http://pages.usherbrooke.ca/croisades/big_images/v_constantinople_murs3.jpg http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QU7kVNhn_1c/UEL_irAlq0I/AAAAAAAAPxI/yh8RzsmVJBs/s1600/Cross-section%2Bof%2Bwalls%2Bof%2BTheodosius%2Bat%2Btime%2Bof%2Bsiege.png Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
in addition, tyre's walls were almost 200', and that was several hundred years BC, so it's not like there isn't a precedent. Triple layered walls for the mother-fucking win. http://pages.usherbrooke.ca/croisades/big_images/v_constantinople_murs3.jpg http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QU7kVNhn_1c/UEL_irAlq0I/AAAAAAAAPxI/yh8RzsmVJBs/s1600/Cross-section%2Bof%2Bwalls%2Bof%2BTheodosius%2Bat%2Btime%2Bof%2Bsiege.png Yup, it would suck to be the guy whose job it is to bring in rubble to make a ford. |
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Posted: 9/4/2015 9:36:31 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Confirmed location spoiler for Theon: Click To View Spoiler Probable, but unconfirmed location spoiler regarding Jaime, Ayra, and Bronn: Click To View Spoiler Arya Stark sends her regards! 
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Posted: 9/5/2015 1:06:53 AM EDT
[#20]
Freddie Stroma has been cast to play Dickon Tarly.
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Posted: 9/5/2015 9:38:24 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Freddie Stroma has been cast to play Dickon Tarly. https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/318497356/1000077622.jpg Wonder if we get to see Randyll Tarly scowling at everyone?
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Posted: 9/5/2015 9:41:40 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Freddie Stroma has been cast to play Dickon Tarly. https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/318497356/1000077622.jpg Dickon? Like let me put my dick on your forehead? |
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Posted: 9/5/2015 9:54:26 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i'm going to disagree, insofar as the only tangible evidence of westerosi construction technology in hand is that such structures (100-120' curtain walled structures) were indeed built. harren built one of the most formidable structures in the kingdom, and he was a jumped-up minor noble. all it takes is a good architect, a workforce, and time. Constantinople would be a good example of an ideal yet realistic fortification, as would Beaumaris Castle in Wales, probably the pinnacle of medieval castle architecture.
 |
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Posted: 9/5/2015 12:27:21 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i have no problem with the scale. as is very often the case in the fantasy genre, GRRM sets up a technologically stagnant world that has regressed from an age of magic. as i read it, westeros has been analogous to 'medieval' for some thousands of years. had gunpowder not been developed, the massive star fortifications we see in europe and the US would likely have been bigger evolutions of traditional curtain wall structures. in addition, tyre's walls were almost 200', and that was several hundred years BC, so it's not like there isn't a precedent. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Does anyone know of the exact height and thickness of Harrenhal's walls? I know that they supposed to be among the biggest in Westeros, easily surpassing those of Storm's End, but I can't find any specific measurements on them, except for "as high as the Great Keep in Winterfell." that's the kind of detail grrm likes to leave out to give him flexibility. all i can find is that it's almost more suited to giants than men and the walls are so high you can barely see the towers behind them. the godswood is over 20 acres per asoiaf wiki and the main gate is thick enough for a dozen murder holes. and the 35 hearths were big enough to park a wagon in them if i remember correctly Some of these fortresses in ASOIAF don't terribly make a lot of sense, from a practical standpoint or a realistic one. For example, the Theodosian Walls of Constantinople, regarded as the best defensive fortification in Europe until the advent of the cannon, was only about 18 meters, or 65 feet tall at it's highest points, and 16 feet thick at it's thickest.. Contrast that to Storm's End, whose curtain walls are 100 feet high and forty feet thick.
So, going by that logic and what GRRM has told us, we can assume that Harrenhal's walls would at least be 120 feet high and 50 feet thick. i have no problem with the scale. as is very often the case in the fantasy genre, GRRM sets up a technologically stagnant world that has regressed from an age of magic. as i read it, westeros has been analogous to 'medieval' for some thousands of years. had gunpowder not been developed, the massive star fortifications we see in europe and the US would likely have been bigger evolutions of traditional curtain wall structures. in addition, tyre's walls were almost 200', and that was several hundred years BC, so it's not like there isn't a precedent. Part of the charm of the books is that they are written from the perspective of people living in the period. They don't have NIST-traceable measurements, dimensions are related very vaguely relative to other known objects. Refer to my sig line! |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 11:19:41 AM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 9/12/2015 11:22:12 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistorySpeaking of which, are we going to find out more about the White Walkers next season? As in where did they come from, how did they learn necromancy, etc etc? |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 11:33:34 AM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 9/12/2015 11:35:15 AM EDT
[#28]
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Posted: 9/12/2015 11:40:59 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
She going to hit him with her white (I'm blind) stick? Arya Stark sends her regards! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Confirmed location spoiler for Theon: Click To View Spoiler Probable, but unconfirmed location spoiler regarding Jaime, Ayra, and Bronn: Click To View Spoiler She going to hit him with her white (I'm blind) stick? Arya Stark sends her regards! |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 11:41:33 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryWhen it says others does it mean other factions or the others as in white walkers? |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 12:04:23 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Speaking of which, are we going to find out more about the White Walkers next season? As in where did they come from, how did they learn necromancy, etc etc? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Speaking of which, are we going to find out more about the White Walkers next season? As in where did they come from, how did they learn necromancy, etc etc? I just hope we find out eventually. I don't want a repeat of 'Lost.' |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 12:06:50 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 9/12/2015 12:09:35 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When it says others does it mean other factions or the others as in white walkers? Quote HistoryQuoted:
When it says others does it mean other factions or the others as in white walkers? Other factions. I changed it to "more" to avoid confusion. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 12:11:17 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryIt's pretty much a thing in this show, though, that the totally morally black or white characters don't survive. Only the morally grey and pragmatic ones do. So it's pretty much a guarantee at some point that Ramsay and Roose will die; they are just too morally black. Besides, Jon already died once as a result of his actions, and i'm still holding to the belief at this point that he will die fighting the Night's King. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 12:16:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Also, consider the fact that every two-three seasons, they need a new big bad.
I am predicting that this will be the last season that the Boltons are the big bad guys. After that, the big bad will be the Night's King as the show shifts focus to the White Walker's invasion of the human realms. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 8:27:17 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's pretty much a thing in this show, though, that the totally morally black or white characters don't survive. Only the morally grey and pragmatic ones do. So it's pretty much a guarantee at some point that Ramsay and Roose will die; they are just too morally black. Besides, Jon already died once as a result of his actions, and i'm still holding to the belief at this point that he will die fighting the Night's King. Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's pretty much a thing in this show, though, that the totally morally black or white characters don't survive. Only the morally grey and pragmatic ones do. So it's pretty much a guarantee at some point that Ramsay and Roose will die; they are just too morally black. Besides, Jon already died once as a result of his actions, and i'm still holding to the belief at this point that he will die fighting the Night's King. I don't see Jon dying again. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 8:38:26 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Speaking of which, are we going to find out more about the White Walkers next season? As in where did they come from, how did they learn necromancy, etc etc? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Speaking of which, are we going to find out more about the White Walkers next season? As in where did they come from, how did they learn necromancy, etc etc? i doubt it. i'd guess last book, if ever and i don't think necromancy is something they learn. i'm going to guess it comes naturally to them |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 8:40:33 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When it says others does it mean other factions or the others as in white walkers? Quote HistoryQuoted:
When it says others does it mean other factions or the others as in white walkers? Others, capital O are the white walkers. lowercase o is just other factions, people etc |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 8:45:23 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't see Jon dying again. If i may inquire, where do you see him at the end of the story? Him and Dany ruling the Seven Kingdoms together (or what's left of them) sounds a little too story-book to me. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:29:06 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If i may inquire, where do you see him at the end of the story? Him and Dany ruling the Seven Kingdoms together (or what's left of them) sounds a little too story-book to me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't see Jon dying again. If i may inquire, where do you see him at the end of the story? Him and Dany ruling the Seven Kingdoms together (or what's left of them) sounds a little too story-book to me. Yeah, that would be too storybook. Maybe warden of the north at winterfell, maybe Danaerys dies and he winds up on the throne alone. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:35:33 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, that would be too storybook. Maybe warden of the north at winterfell, maybe Danaerys dies and he winds up on the throne alone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't see Jon dying again. If i may inquire, where do you see him at the end of the story? Him and Dany ruling the Seven Kingdoms together (or what's left of them) sounds a little too story-book to me. Yeah, that would be too storybook. Maybe warden of the north at winterfell, maybe Danaerys dies and he winds up on the throne alone. Yeah. I don't see the Aunt marrying Nephew thing happening. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 9:39:45 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah. I don't see the Aunt marrying Nephew thing happening. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
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I don't see Jon dying again. If i may inquire, where do you see him at the end of the story? Him and Dany ruling the Seven Kingdoms together (or what's left of them) sounds a little too story-book to me. Yeah, that would be too storybook. Maybe warden of the north at winterfell, maybe Danaerys dies and he winds up on the throne alone. Yeah. I don't see the Aunt marrying Nephew thing happening. It could -- I just don't see it coming out that way in the end. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:02:48 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, that would be too storybook. Maybe warden of the north at winterfell, maybe Danaerys dies and he winds up on the throne alone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't see Jon dying again. If i may inquire, where do you see him at the end of the story? Him and Dany ruling the Seven Kingdoms together (or what's left of them) sounds a little too story-book to me. Yeah, that would be too storybook. Maybe warden of the north at winterfell, maybe Danaerys dies and he winds up on the throne alone. I think that Rickon being Lord of Winterfell is the most likely, with Jon being King/Emperor of Westeros. IMO, they may be the only Starks left, if the theory of Bran becoming a god has any bearing. I just don't see the Stark sisters surviving. Arya reminds me too much of Hamlet, and Sansa is probably going to die soon after getting revenge on Littlefinger, most likely by her own hand. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:04:34 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think that Rickon being Lord of Winterfell is the most likely, with Jon being King/Emperor of Westeros. IMO, they may be the only Starks left, if the theory of Bran becoming a god has any bearing. I just don't see the Stark sisters surviving. Arya reminds me too much of Hamlet, and Sansa is probably going to die soon after getting revenge on Littlefinger, most likely by her own hand. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't see Jon dying again. If i may inquire, where do you see him at the end of the story? Him and Dany ruling the Seven Kingdoms together (or what's left of them) sounds a little too story-book to me. Yeah, that would be too storybook. Maybe warden of the north at winterfell, maybe Danaerys dies and he winds up on the throne alone. I think that Rickon being Lord of Winterfell is the most likely, with Jon being King/Emperor of Westeros. IMO, they may be the only Starks left, if the theory of Bran becoming a god has any bearing. I just don't see the Stark sisters surviving. Arya reminds me too much of Hamlet, and Sansa is probably going to die soon after getting revenge on Littlefinger, most likely by her own hand. I suspect both of the sisters will survive, but Rickon will still take precedence over either of them. Arya has a different path laid out, and Sansa could still end up with Tyrion in the end. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:06:54 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I suspect both of the sisters will survive, but Rickon will still take precedence over either of them. Arya has a different path laid out, and Sansa could still end up with Tyrion in the end. Arya as the lone wander/bounty hunter.
Sansa ending up with Tyrion (provided that he doesn't find Tysha) would possibly be the best ending for her. But I really don't see Martin going that direction, IMO. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:26:37 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If i may inquire, where do you see him at the end of the story? Him and Dany ruling the Seven Kingdoms together (or what's left of them) sounds a little too story-book to me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't see Jon dying again. If i may inquire, where do you see him at the end of the story? Him and Dany ruling the Seven Kingdoms together (or what's left of them) sounds a little too story-book to me. martin's statement that the end would be 'bittersweet' is suggestive of a "death = new beginning" event. azor ahai quenching lightbringer is an obvious thought, but that's only a 'fire' component. and i'm starting to wonder if R+L=J--where J is the song--might be misdirection. we have a bunch of resurrections via r'hllor (associated with fire), but the white walkers are also necromancers, and we've seen inklings that they aren't some kind of unadulterated evil (like zombies). so it seems like any climax isn't just going to be the unveiling of parentage, but an engagement between these two 'supernatural' entities. and a satisfying conclusion has to be a dialectical synthesis of the two, a la yin/yang perhaps. here's where it goes sideways, because dany has had what amounts to direct intercourse with fire (the unburnt). jon hasn't had the equivalent with ice. we assume that melisandre is going to revive jon, but if she does, then jon is kinda fire also. so i'm starting to wonder if it might not be the white walkers who revive him somehow (via benjen/coldhands). i'm kinda wandering around here, thinking out loud. seems to me that we know certain things that have to happen to bring the story to a conclusion, the only question is who does them, and who is standing at the end. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:32:48 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
martin's statement that the end would be 'bittersweet' is suggestive of a "death = new beginning" event. azor ahai quenching lightbringer is an obvious thought, but that's only a 'fire' component. and i'm starting to wonder if R+L=J--where J is the song--might be misdirection. we have a bunch of resurrections via r'hllor (associated with fire), but the white walkers are also necromancers, and we've seen inklings that they aren't some kind of unadulterated evil (like zombies). so it seems like any climax isn't just going to be the unveiling of parentage, but an engagement between these two 'supernatural' entities. and a satisfying conclusion has to be a dialectical synthesis of the two, a la yin/yang perhaps. here's where it goes sideways, because dany has had what amounts to direct intercourse with fire (the unburnt). jon hasn't had the equivalent with ice. we assume that melisandre is going to revive jon, but if she does, then jon is kinda fire also. so i'm starting to wonder if it might not be the white walkers who revive him somehow (via benjen/coldhands). i'm kinda wandering around here, thinking out loud. seems to me that we know certain things that have to happen to bring the story to a conclusion, the only question is who does them, and who is standing at the end. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't see Jon dying again. If i may inquire, where do you see him at the end of the story? Him and Dany ruling the Seven Kingdoms together (or what's left of them) sounds a little too story-book to me. martin's statement that the end would be 'bittersweet' is suggestive of a "death = new beginning" event. azor ahai quenching lightbringer is an obvious thought, but that's only a 'fire' component. and i'm starting to wonder if R+L=J--where J is the song--might be misdirection. we have a bunch of resurrections via r'hllor (associated with fire), but the white walkers are also necromancers, and we've seen inklings that they aren't some kind of unadulterated evil (like zombies). so it seems like any climax isn't just going to be the unveiling of parentage, but an engagement between these two 'supernatural' entities. and a satisfying conclusion has to be a dialectical synthesis of the two, a la yin/yang perhaps. here's where it goes sideways, because dany has had what amounts to direct intercourse with fire (the unburnt). jon hasn't had the equivalent with ice. we assume that melisandre is going to revive jon, but if she does, then jon is kinda fire also. so i'm starting to wonder if it might not be the white walkers who revive him somehow (via benjen/coldhands). i'm kinda wandering around here, thinking out loud. seems to me that we know certain things that have to happen to bring the story to a conclusion, the only question is who does them, and who is standing at the end. I believe that Jon's purpose (or maybe Bran's) is to bring the two opposing forces back into balance, perhaps by sacrificing his life. Perhaps even by 'killing' Rhllor and the Great Other, and becoming the God of Ice AND Fire. I'm just throwing out ideas for the endgame here. Regardless, we won't know until Dave and Dan publish Season 7 or George finishes A Dream of Spring. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:39:53 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe that Jon's purpose (or maybe Bran's) is to bring the two opposing forces back into balance, perhaps by sacrificing his life. Perhaps even by 'killing' Rhllor and the Great Other, and becoming the God of Ice AND Fire. I'm just throwing out ideas for the endgame here. Regardless, we won't know until Dave and Dan publish Season 7 or George finishes A Dream of Spring. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
... I believe that Jon's purpose (or maybe Bran's) is to bring the two opposing forces back into balance, perhaps by sacrificing his life. Perhaps even by 'killing' Rhllor and the Great Other, and becoming the God of Ice AND Fire. I'm just throwing out ideas for the endgame here. Regardless, we won't know until Dave and Dan publish Season 7 or George finishes A Dream of Spring. would fit with his character--always hovering in between two intractable ideas, doesn't really belong anywhere, and driven by duty. bran is easy to forget, but is going to be tremendously important in the metaphysical scheme of things. arya is the converse--irrelevant to the magical stuff, but very important in the corporeal battle. the two of them meet at the dragons. sansa and dany are going to have an important relationship also, i think, revolving around the slavery theme. (and yes, my mind just went straight into the gutter as i typed that). tyrion is relevant to both. |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:40:32 PM EDT
[#49]
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Yeah, that would be too storybook. Maybe warden of the north at winterfell, maybe Danaerys dies and he winds up on the throne alone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I don't see Jon dying again. If i may inquire, where do you see him at the end of the story? Him and Dany ruling the Seven Kingdoms together (or what's left of them) sounds a little too story-book to me. Yeah, that would be too storybook. Maybe warden of the north at winterfell, maybe Danaerys dies and he winds up on the throne alone. even with robb's letter, i'm not sure he'd take winterfell. maybe back to the Wall or dying in a blaze of glory to become one of the new old nan's stories |
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Posted: 9/12/2015 10:41:57 PM EDT
[#50]
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Arya as the lone wander/bounty hunter.
Sansa ending up with Tyrion (provided that he doesn't find Tysha) would possibly be the best ending for her. But I really don't see Martin going that direction, IMO. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I suspect both of the sisters will survive, but Rickon will still take precedence over either of them. Arya has a different path laid out, and Sansa could still end up with Tyrion in the end. Arya as the lone wander/bounty hunter.
Sansa ending up with Tyrion (provided that he doesn't find Tysha) would possibly be the best ending for her. But I really don't see Martin going that direction, IMO. i think she'll end up with clegane |
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