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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:10:47 AM EDT
http://time.com/3640529/emma-czornobaj-ducks-death-canada-driver
Gee in the rest of the world it's your fault if you rear end someone because you weren't paying attention
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:13:43 AM EDT
[#1]
I'm glad she got something. people like that are dangerous. I have seen plenty of wrecks / near misses from people stopping or going 40mph on the highway
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:13:54 AM EDT
[#2]
She deserves worse than that.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:14:34 AM EDT
[#3]
she was stopped and out of the car in left lane on highway. no brake lights... it is her fault 187%
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:15:37 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
she was stopped and out of the car in left lane on highway. no brake lights... it is her fault 187% Agree with all of the above. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:16:13 AM EDT
[#5]
Fuck her and teh goose she rode in on!!
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:19:02 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
She deserves worse than that. yup |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:19:19 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
she was stopped and out of the car in left lane on highway. no brake lights... it is her fault 187% |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:21:01 AM EDT
[#8]
Parks her car in the left lane of a highway. Not on the shoulder. Gets out of her car, to round up some freakin ducks that were in the median. Her actions were the direct cause of the accident.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:22:26 AM EDT
[#9]
It was partially the motorcyclist's fault too, but stopping on a highway is very dangerous.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:22:50 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
http://time.com/3640529/emma-czornobaj-ducks-death-canada-driver Gee in the rest of the world it's your fault if you rear end someone because you weren't paying attention
They hit a obstacle left in a lane of traffic. It was her fault. I mean he was doing 80 in a 55 but who the fuck expects a stopped and abandoned car in the highway. Had her car broken down i would have sympathy for her. but she left it in a lane of traffic being a dumb ass |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:25:30 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm glad she got something. people like that are dangerous. I have seen plenty of wrecks / near misses from people stopping or going 40mph on the highway I once say a lady come to a complete stop in the right lane (not the side lane) on a highway (65mph speed limit) to attempt to rescue a dog that was in the middle of the road. I don't know how in the hell she didn't cause one hell of a pile up. Cars were swerving around here on both sides......she jumped back in her car and drove off....stupid people! |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:25:44 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
http://time.com/3640529/emma-czornobaj-ducks-death-canada-driver Gee in the rest of the world it's your fault if you rear end someone because you weren't paying attention
What is your definition of "the rest of the world". Because in Europe, you most definately can be charged if you cause someone to rear end your car. "Clear your rear" |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:27:01 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is your definition of "the rest of the world". Because in Europe, you most definately can be charged if you cause someone to rear end your car. "Clear your rear" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: http://time.com/3640529/emma-czornobaj-ducks-death-canada-driver Gee in the rest of the world it's your fault if you rear end someone because you weren't paying attention What is your definition of "the rest of the world". Because in Europe, you most definately can be charged if you cause someone to rear end your car. "Clear your rear" |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:27:45 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: she was stopped and out of the car in left lane on highway. no brake lights... it is her fault 187% |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:30:16 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
http://time.com/3640529/emma-czornobaj-ducks-death-canada-driver Gee in the rest of the world it's your fault if you rear end someone because you weren't paying attention
This. Pay the fuck attention to what you are driving into. Unless it was insanely foggy, there is no reason he should have made impact. Her motives and reasoning withstanding, what is to say that in another scenario where a car is flipped over and blocking a lane on the highway, is the driver of the flipped over car responsible for the guy who hits his upside down vehicle? Related mention. Two coworkers of mine got into an accident last Friday. Super awesome coworker was stopped at a red light. Super douche and amazingly fat fuck coworker was trying to juggle pizza into his mouth, wasn't paying attention when pizza fell and rear ended the cool guy doing 55mph in a 40. It's obviously the awesome dude's fault because he prevented a lardass neckbeard from proceeding on his way home. 
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:30:20 AM EDT
[#16]
This deserves a "c'mon man?"
I got taken out by a snowboarder yesterday but it was her fault... |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:32:35 AM EDT
[#17]
going 60-70 mph you can't always detect car moving or not, when you come from behind and there are no brake lights...they are there for a reason. or he could of changed lanes into that lane right before that - you can not stop immediately and this was not the case of following too closely. about "keep it under control", do you ride a motorcycle, or are you one of these motorists that automatically assume that every rider is dangerous or incapable or both? |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:33:02 AM EDT
[#18]
On I-35, the minivan in front of us was tailgating the vehicle in front of her. A Chevy Caprice was parked in the median with its bumper hanging about a foot into the lane. Minivan clips the Caprice and goes into a spin, then roll.
Don't park on the highway, people. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:36:17 AM EDT
[#19]
No flashers, no flares, no warning and freaking parked on the highway?!? Very dangerous.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:37:01 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Motorcyclist failed to have his vehicle under control and pay attention. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
she was stopped and out of the car in left lane on highway. no brake lights... it is her fault 187% And was probably driving way too fast. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:38:52 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: going 60-70 mph you can't always detect car moving or not, when you come from behind and there are no brake lights...they are there for a reason. or he could of changed lanes into that lane right before that - you can not stop immediately and this was not the case of following too closely. about "keep it under control", do you ride a motorcycle, or are you one of these motorists that automatically assume that every rider is dangerous or incapable or both? oh and baloney- as you approach a stopped object it's obvious that the object is GETTING BIGGER, which means it's either stationary or not moving quickly. She could have been going 20 mph in a line of traffic that was slowed for construction and motorcycle guy and his passenger would be just as dead
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:39:13 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And was probably driving way too fast. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: she was stopped and out of the car in left lane on highway. no brake lights... it is her fault 187% And was probably driving way too fast. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:39:59 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was partially the motorcyclist's fault too, but stopping on a highway is very dangerous. There's a great deal of fault in this one on everyone's part, the driver for stopping as she did but the motorcyclist clearly didn't have situational awareness and wasn't scanning far enough ahead... if you're a motorcyclist get your eyes up, the more speed you have, the further you need to be scanning ahead, you can't trust anyone for your own personal safety! I admit to stopping many times to save critters in the road but I'm well off the road first, I prefer animals to people anyway... 
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:41:56 AM EDT
[#24]
Czornobaj parked her Honda Civic in the left lane of a highway She should get a lifetime ban on driving just for doing that, never mind whether anyone ran into her. Who the hell parks their car in the left lane of a highway? |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:42:46 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's a great deal of fault in this one on everyone's part, the driver for stopping as she did but the motorcyclist clearly didn't have situational awareness and wasn't scanning far enough ahead... if you're a motorcyclist get your eyes up, the more speed you have, the further you need to be scanning ahead, you can't trust anyone for your own personal safety! I admit to stopping many times to save critters in the road but I'm well off the road first, I prefer animals to people anyway... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It was partially the motorcyclist's fault too, but stopping on a highway is very dangerous. There's a great deal of fault in this one on everyone's part, the driver for stopping as she did but the motorcyclist clearly didn't have situational awareness and wasn't scanning far enough ahead... if you're a motorcyclist get your eyes up, the more speed you have, the further you need to be scanning ahead, you can't trust anyone for your own personal safety! I admit to stopping many times to save critters in the road but I'm well off the road first, I prefer animals to people anyway... |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:44:02 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
a high school teacher was killed in upstate NY trying to get a turtle off an exit ramp I always say a little prayer and root for slow-moving critters that I see trying to make it across a road, but stopping and trying to help them seems like an awfully stupid game to play. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:45:04 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Motorcyclist failed to have his vehicle under control and pay attention. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
she was stopped and out of the car in left lane on highway. no brake lights... it is her fault 187% They were both negligent. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:45:36 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They were both negligent. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: she was stopped and out of the car in left lane on highway. no brake lights... it is her fault 187% They were both negligent. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:46:08 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I always say a little prayer and root for slow-moving critters that I see trying to make it across a road, but stopping and trying to help them seems like an awfully stupid game to play. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: a high school teacher was killed in upstate NY trying to get a turtle off an exit ramp I always say a little prayer and root for slow-moving critters that I see trying to make it across a road, but stopping and trying to help them seems like an awfully stupid game to play. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:46:43 AM EDT
[#30]
In June 2010, Czornobaj parked her Honda Civic in the left lane of a highway in a Montreal suburb after seeing seven ducklings in the road. She said she was trying to gather the ducks and take them home. As she left her parked car to round up the ducklings, Roy crashed his motorcycle into the back of the stationary vehicle.
The incident has been divisive in Canada. A petition on Change.org signed by thousands of people pushed for the country’s legal system to be lenient on a woman who they believe only had the best of intentions in saving the ducks. The victim’s family members, however, have expressed frustration with Czornobaj over the fact that she hasn’t reached out to them. Yeah the motorcyclist should have been paying better attention but it could have been over a rise or bend or any number of reasons. Either way it's still on this dumbass duck lover to not park her car in the fast lane to "save" ducks who managed to make it there safely in the first place. Fuck her. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:46:44 AM EDT
[#31]
Hazard flashers exist for a reason. Way too many people don't use them properly or at all.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:49:13 AM EDT
[#32]
"Sight distance", how does that work?
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:49:29 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And was probably driving way too fast. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
she was stopped and out of the car in left lane on highway. no brake lights... it is her fault 187% And was probably driving way too fast. This is one of those examples of "When Idiots Collide." In this case, literally, with a tragic ending. Not sure what Canadian law says about this, but if it's illegal to stop on the highway for non-emergencies, then yes she deserves some punishment. The motorcyclist would should have been charged with something too, had they survived. From a civil law point of view, there's something called contributory negligence that some states have here, and depending on what their law says, I think it'd be a tough sell for the families of the motorcyclist to recover in a wrongful death suit. Most states have moved to a comparative negligence doctrine, where the court would like at the degree to which each party contributed to the accident, and base any awards on that. It's a shitty situation no matter the outcome. Don't park your car on a highway. /thread |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:50:28 AM EDT
[#34]
It depends on if she stopped in a blind spot too, you cannot always scan several seconds ahead.
Anyone remember the rear end insurance scammers who would park in a dip in the highway and wait to get rear ended? They always had a trunk full of old tires or hay bales to cushion the impact, a guy I used to work with had a gnarly scar where he hit the steering wheel from one of these. edit spelling |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:51:47 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Motorcyclist failed to have his vehicle under control and pay attention. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
she was stopped and out of the car in left lane on highway. no brake lights... it is her fault 187% I'm with Aimless on this... never driver faster than you can see. While "stopping to help ducks" seems stupid in hindsight, she could have just as easily broken down, already been involved in an MVA, or otherwise blocking the lane of travel for a dozen other reasons. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:53:57 AM EDT
[#36]
I've been in a similar situation where some dumb asian broad parked her SUV in the left lane of a 50mph street. It was very hard to tell the vehicle was not moving until I was very close to it. Close enough to have to lock brakes, but not close enough to rear end it. Just as that happened she got out and looked at me like a deer in headlights, then did this stupid "woman in high heels run" across the median to another vehicle parked on the other side of the road.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:54:47 AM EDT
[#37]
I can't believe I'm the first one to look at the picture and decide not guilty.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:55:00 AM EDT
[#38]
The values of stopping sight distance used in design represent a near worst-case situation. For design, a conservative distance is needed to allow a vehicle traveling at design speed to stop before reaching a stationary object in its path. A generous amount of time is given for the perception-reaction process, and a fairly low rate of deceleration is used. The design sight distance allows a below-average driver to stop in time to avoid a collision in most cases.
Driver perception/reaction distance is calculated by: dPRT = 0.278 Vt (Metric) dPRT = 1.47 Vt (US Customary) Where: dPRT = driver perception-reaction distance, m (ft) V = design speed, km/h (mph) t = brake reaction time, in seconds Based on the results of many studies, 2.5 seconds has been chosen for a perception-reaction time. This time will accommodate approximately 90 percent of all drivers when confronted with simple to moderately complex highway situations. Greater reaction time should be allowed in situations that are more complex. Braking distance is calculated by: dMT = 0.039 V2/a (Metric) dMT> = 1.075 V2/a (US Customary) Where: dMT = braking distance, m (ft) V = design speed, km/h (mph) a = deceleration rate, m/s2 (ft/s2) Actual braking distances are affected by the vehicle type and condition, the incline of the road, the available traction, and numerous other factors. A deceleration rate of 3.4 m/s2 (11.2 ft/s2) is used to determine stopping sight distance.[4] Approximately 90 percent of all drivers decelerate at rates greater than that. These values are within most drivers' ability to stay within his or her lane and maintain steering control. Also, most wet pavement surfaces and most vehicle braking systems are capable of providing enough braking force to exceed this deceleration rate. Stopping Sight Distance (SSD) is the sum of reaction distance and braking distance SSD = dPRT + dMT SSD = 0.278 Vt + 0.039 V2/a (Metric) SSD = 1.47 Vt + 1.075 V2/a (US Customary) Motorcycle was traveling too fast for conditions. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:56:07 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
a high school teacher was killed in upstate NY trying to get a turtle off an exit ramp Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It was partially the motorcyclist's fault too, but stopping on a highway is very dangerous. There's a great deal of fault in this one on everyone's part, the driver for stopping as she did but the motorcyclist clearly didn't have situational awareness and wasn't scanning far enough ahead... if you're a motorcyclist get your eyes up, the more speed you have, the further you need to be scanning ahead, you can't trust anyone for your own personal safety! I admit to stopping many times to save critters in the road but I'm well off the road first, I prefer animals to people anyway...
Agreed, I've only done it when it was safe to do so, secondary roads with light traffic. I'd never stop and venture out on a major freeway, the potential for carnage is just too high. In those cases I say a little prayer for the critter and keep moving. In 37 years of street riding I can't even begin to imagine how many times keeping my head and eyes up and 12 to 14 seconds down the road has saved me from drama, it's not a surprise when you've identified a potential situation early giving yourself time to react... |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:56:53 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can't believe I'm the first one to look at the picture and decide not guilty.  |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:57:59 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
same here, I always think of the dude trying to save the turtle and just keep going Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
a high school teacher was killed in upstate NY trying to get a turtle off an exit ramp I always say a little prayer and root for slow-moving critters that I see trying to make it across a road, but stopping and trying to help them seems like an awfully stupid game to play. A buddy and I took the MSF Basic rider course at the same time, but in separate classrooms. He swears that the instructors repeatedly said "if something is squishable, do not take evasive action. Squirrels and cats will probably get out of the way. Turtles? Tough luck. Deer? Hard on the brakes then off 'em and try swerving". |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:58:54 AM EDT
[#42]
IIRC they where riding into the sunset which may have hindered visibility.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:59:44 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd. Nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd. Nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd. Nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd nerd: Nerd = nerd (nerd) Nerd = nerd nerd (US nerd) Nerd: Nerd = nerd nerd-nerd nerd n(nerd) blah too tired to quote all of it End result of all the nerd: Motorcycle was traveling too fast for conditions.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:59:59 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Me and a buddy too the MSF Basic rider course at the same time, but in separate classrooms. He swears that the instructors repeatedly said "if something is squishable, do not take evasive action. Squirrels and cats will probably get out of the way. Turtles? Tough luck. Deer? Hard on the brakes then off 'em and try swerving". Quote HistoryQuoted: Me and a buddy too the MSF Basic rider course at the same time, but in separate classrooms. He swears that the instructors repeatedly said "if something is squishable, do not take evasive action. Squirrels and cats will probably get out of the way. Turtles? Tough luck. Deer? Hard on the brakes then off 'em and try swerving". |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 12:00:24 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Me and a buddy too the MSF Basic rider course at the same time, but in separate classrooms. He swears that the instructors repeatedly said "if something is squishable, do not take evasive action. Squirrels and cats will probably get out of the way. Turtles? Tough luck. Deer? Hard on the brakes then off 'em and try swerving". I've always had the same policy in my car. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 12:02:10 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IIRC they where riding into the sunset which may have hindered visibility. I'd say literally and figuratively. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 12:11:47 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And was probably driving way too fast. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
she was stopped and out of the car in left lane on highway. no brake lights... it is her fault 187% And was probably driving way too fast. According to some news releases, the bikers were in the right lane approaching a large truck. They moved over to pass the truck on a curve and didn't see the parked car until it was too late. The car was in park so there were no break lights or flashing hazard lights on. This woman is a complete idiot and should never operate a vehicle again in her entire life. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 12:15:07 PM EDT
[#48]
And when the motorcyclist hit the ducks, he was going to die. It sounds like it was just his time to go.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 12:17:47 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Motorcyclist failed to have his vehicle under control and pay attention. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
she was stopped and out of the car in left lane on highway. no brake lights... it is her fault 187% I agree with Aimless on this one. What she did was stupid but the Motorcyclist and his daughter are dead because of his own incompetence, no if's, ands or but's about it. If the car was stopped long enough for her to put in into park, get out and walk away then it was stopped more than long enough for the Motorcyclist to see it, recognized that is was stopped and then make the appropriate corrections. He didn't, he died. 100% his fault IMO. And yes in the US, if you reared someone it is always legally your fault. Doesn't matter what the person in front of you did or didn't do. You either failed to maintain a safe distance or you failed to control your vehicle. Quoted:
IIRC they where riding into the sunset which may have hindered visibility. if that's the case that means the Motorcyclist was traveling too fast for the conditions. When visibility is low (glare, rain, snow, fog whatever) you are supposed to reduce your speed appropriately for this exact type of reason. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 12:23:41 PM EDT
[#50]
some dumb woman did the same in the Seattle area in 2011ish; she caused a pileup and traffic jam over a couple of ducks.
idiot. |
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