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Posted: 12/18/2014 12:30:53 PM EDT
[#1]
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I'll listen later, but Ayoob has always been contradictory in his writhing and kind of assclownish. Light years better than Yeager but that's not saying much. Go on. You know, he used to post here... until a bunch of real assclowns piled on him, accused him of being a fraud, teaching classes drunk, etc. Were you one of those folks by chance? |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 12:35:09 PM EDT
[#2]
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Not really. The alternative would have been Zimmerman notifying the police of a suspicious dindu and then going home and calling it a day. No shooting, no trial, no race baiting attention whores, no death threats. Trayvon Martin would still be thugging around but that wouldn't be Zimmerman's problem, he'd still have his life and his stuff. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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His life was indeed ruined. But wouldn't the alternative been worse? Not really. The alternative would have been Zimmerman notifying the police of a suspicious dindu and then going home and calling it a day. No shooting, no trial, no race baiting attention whores, no death threats. Trayvon Martin would still be thugging around but that wouldn't be Zimmerman's problem, he'd still have his life and his stuff. Here's an alternative for you: Brush up on the actual events of that night. Then you'll sound more like you know what you are talking about than you do right now. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 12:36:12 PM EDT
[#3]
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Not quite the bumbling oaf he has been portrayed to be. Imagine that... Please specify which bumbling oaf we're talking about; Ayoob or Zimmerman? 
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Posted: 12/18/2014 12:37:26 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Violent, wannabe gangsta thug or busybody, wannabe hero cop? I'm putting my house up for sale on the quickness if those are my only options.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Seriously, there was an equivalence between Zimmerman and Martin? You wouldn't rather have one as a neighbor over the other? Violent, wannabe gangsta thug or busybody, wannabe hero cop? I'm putting my house up for sale on the quickness if those are my only options.  Yet another poster who validates the collective low opinion of '13ers here. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 12:39:33 PM EDT
[#5]
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"The anti self defense crowd" really being the "don't be a dumbass crowd. You would think that Zimmerman would be a cautionary tale, but people here still rant about how they would leave their house to fight three men breaking into a parked car in their driveway. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He lived there and Trayvon Martin didn't. And his instincts were proved correct - Trayvon Martin was indeed a shitbird. And the cost for being right was having his life ruined. His life was indeed ruined. But wouldn't the alternative been worse? Isn't the anti-self defense crowd trying to make submission (for a law-abiding citizen) seem like a better option? If Trayvon had hurt or killed GZ, we would probably never have heard of this case. But because GZ followed the law, and called the police, he is the bad guy. I would leave my house to ask the perps to stop. If they didn't, I'd be more insistant. If they still didn't, I might move towards them, or perhaps lob any handy object at them. Maybe I'd shout loudly or shove them aside. I do not have to let anyone steal from me. I would stop them. If during any of my attempts to protect what is lawfully mine I feel threatened, I would take the necessary actions to protect myself. It would be to my discretion what I would decide is necessary. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 12:41:27 PM EDT
[#6]
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And the cost for being right was having his life ruined. Seems to be a common theme these days. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 12:42:52 PM EDT
[#7]
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So the fatty dollar-cop Zimmerninja was character-assassinated by the Leftist media? Amazing how many people here bought it too. It seems you might have too. 
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Posted: 12/18/2014 12:44:53 PM EDT
[#8]
tagged for later review. Sounds interesting!
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Posted: 12/18/2014 12:51:58 PM EDT
[#9]
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Yet another poster who validates the collective low opinion of '13ers here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Seriously, there was an equivalence between Zimmerman and Martin? You wouldn't rather have one as a neighbor over the other?
Violent, wannabe gangsta thug or busybody, wannabe hero cop? I'm putting my house up for sale on the quickness if those are my only options.
Yet another poster who validates the collective low opinion of '13ers here. What do you have in addition to the 13'er comment? Anything at all? Or is that what you resort to when you've got nothing? Sorry, you'll just have to live with the fact that I prefer my neighbors and I to mind our own business unless something is actually happening. I don't need some layman with a hero complex playing cops and robbers in my neighborhood. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 12:53:45 PM EDT
[#10]
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+1 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Seriously, there was an equivalence between Zimmerman and Martin? You wouldn't rather have one as a neighbor over the other?
Violent, wannabe gangsta thug or busybody, wannabe hero cop? I'm putting my house up for sale on the quickness if those are my only options.
*click* Sorry... I refuse to deal with that level of nonsense. +1 
Guess that means I won't have to deal with that level of pettiness and butthurt? 
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Posted: 12/18/2014 12:53:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Why hasn't he sued FLA or the court system yet? I'll listen to the radio when I get home.
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Posted: 12/18/2014 12:54:59 PM EDT
[#12]
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I always wondered why Zimmerman didnt fire a few rounds in the air to scare off the attacker? That has to de-escalate all but the most determined assassins. I know if someone fired a round in the air in front of me, my first thought would be the next one won't be in the air, and run as hell. The thugs might be criminal, but they aren't stupid, or completely irrational. Here is why you TL:DR, it was because he was getting his head pounded on the concrete! Or maybe he did fire a shot into the air, but the problem was that TM was on top of him pounding his head into the concrete. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 1:02:40 PM EDT
[#13]
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Here's an alternative for you: Brush up on the actual events of that night. Then you'll sound more like you know what you are talking about than you do right now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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His life was indeed ruined. But wouldn't the alternative been worse? Not really. The alternative would have been Zimmerman notifying the police of a suspicious dindu and then going home and calling it a day. No shooting, no trial, no race baiting attention whores, no death threats. Trayvon Martin would still be thugging around but that wouldn't be Zimmerman's problem, he'd still have his life and his stuff. Here's an alternative for you: Brush up on the actual events of that night. Then you'll sound more like you know what you are talking about than you do right now. Please point out where his post showed ignorance of the "actual events of that night." |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 1:05:58 PM EDT
[#14]
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I'm sure that's in the works. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Linky no play for me. 
Cliff notes? He is $2.5 million in debt. His family is still hounded. He can't get a job. He wishes he had liability insurance. Avoid the fucking media at all costs. It really is worth the listen. I wonder why he doesn't write a book about the whole thing. I'm sure that's in the works. John Wayne Gacey had a better chance at getting a paying book contract with an estsblished publisher than GZ does....ANY real publisher would be villified for giving him a dime... Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 1:06:50 PM EDT
[#15]
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Please point out where his post showed ignorance of the "actual events of that night." Quote HistoryQuoted:
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His life was indeed ruined. But wouldn't the alternative been worse? Not really. The alternative would have been Zimmerman notifying the police of a suspicious dindu and then going home and calling it a day. No shooting, no trial, no race baiting attention whores, no death threats. Trayvon Martin would still be thugging around but that wouldn't be Zimmerman's problem, he'd still have his life and his stuff. Here's an alternative for you: Brush up on the actual events of that night. Then you'll sound more like you know what you are talking about than you do right now. Please point out where his post showed ignorance of the "actual events of that night." Yes, please do. I think Antero pretty much nailed it. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 1:08:13 PM EDT
[#16]
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Please point out where his post showed ignorance of the "actual events of that night." Quote HistoryQuoted:
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His life was indeed ruined. But wouldn't the alternative been worse? Not really. The alternative would have been Zimmerman notifying the police of a suspicious dindu and then going home and calling it a day. No shooting, no trial, no race baiting attention whores, no death threats. Trayvon Martin would still be thugging around but that wouldn't be Zimmerman's problem, he'd still have his life and his stuff. Here's an alternative for you: Brush up on the actual events of that night. Then you'll sound more like you know what you are talking about than you do right now. Please point out where his post showed ignorance of the "actual events of that night." Missed the point where GZ was only attempting to identify cross streets to help the police locate TM. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 1:11:03 PM EDT
[#17]
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Missed the point where GZ was only attempting to identify cross streets to help the police locate TM. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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His life was indeed ruined. But wouldn't the alternative been worse? Not really. The alternative would have been Zimmerman notifying the police of a suspicious dindu and then going home and calling it a day. No shooting, no trial, no race baiting attention whores, no death threats. Trayvon Martin would still be thugging around but that wouldn't be Zimmerman's problem, he'd still have his life and his stuff. Here's an alternative for you: Brush up on the actual events of that night. Then you'll sound more like you know what you are talking about than you do right now. Please point out where his post showed ignorance of the "actual events of that night." Missed the point where GZ was only attempting to identify cross streets to help the police locate TM. And just had to exit his vehicle on order to do so, right? Have you ever had to exit your vehicle in order to read the name of the street you were on or upon? Be serious now. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 1:26:41 PM EDT
[#18]
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Please point out where his post showed ignorance of the "actual events of that night." Quote HistoryQuoted:
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His life was indeed ruined. But wouldn't the alternative been worse? Not really. The alternative would have been Zimmerman notifying the police of a suspicious dindu and then going home and calling it a day. No shooting, no trial, no race baiting attention whores, no death threats. Trayvon Martin would still be thugging around but that wouldn't be Zimmerman's problem, he'd still have his life and his stuff. Here's an alternative for you: Brush up on the actual events of that night. Then you'll sound more like you know what you are talking about than you do right now. Please point out where his post showed ignorance of the "actual events of that night." I did. It is in the quote. You seem unaware of the actual events too.
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Posted: 12/18/2014 1:30:54 PM EDT
[#19]
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Missed the point where GZ was only attempting to identify cross streets to help the police locate TM. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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His life was indeed ruined. But wouldn't the alternative been worse? Not really. The alternative would have been Zimmerman notifying the police of a suspicious dindu and then going home and calling it a day. No shooting, no trial, no race baiting attention whores, no death threats. Trayvon Martin would still be thugging around but that wouldn't be Zimmerman's problem, he'd still have his life and his stuff. Here's an alternative for you: Brush up on the actual events of that night. Then you'll sound more like you know what you are talking about than you do right now. Please point out where his post showed ignorance of the "actual events of that night." Missed the point where GZ was only attempting to identify cross streets to help the police locate TM. Oh, that's all? There was no getting out of his car? There was no following? He just drove by, saw Martin, and called as he drove by the intersection? |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 1:31:17 PM EDT
[#20]
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It seems you might have too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So the fatty dollar-cop Zimmerninja was character-assassinated by the Leftist media? Amazing how many people here bought it too. It seems you might have too. Keep reading. ETA: and have that sarcasm-detector of yours recalibrated... I think it's broke. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 1:32:14 PM EDT
[#21]
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I'll listen later, but Ayoob has always been contradictory in his writhing and kind of assclownish. Light years better than Yeager but that's not saying much. Please post some examples, I've been reading his stuff since the early 80s and I would love to know what you're talking about. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 1:36:11 PM EDT
[#22]
Listening now
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Posted: 12/18/2014 1:46:49 PM EDT
[#23]
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Here's an alternative for you: Brush up on the actual events of that night. Then you'll sound more like you know what you are talking about than you do right now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not really. The alternative would have been Zimmerman notifying the police of a suspicious dindu and then going home and calling it a day. No shooting, no trial, no race baiting attention whores, no death threats. Trayvon Martin would still be thugging around but that wouldn't be Zimmerman's problem, he'd still have his life and his stuff. Here's an alternative for you: Brush up on the actual events of that night. Then you'll sound more like you know what you are talking about than you do right now. While your insinuation that I am uninformed on the event is much appreciated, my opinion on the matter is unchanged. None of this had to happen, he didn't have to have his entire life ruined. If he had made the call about the suspicious kid and then just gone home, none of this would have happened to him. No one forced him to follow that kid, it wasn't his job. He didn't have to get out of his vehicle either, he could have stayed in it and continued to watch the kid. Again, none of this would have happened. A little more apathy and minding his own business would have made the difference. Might Trayvon Martin have broken into a house, robbed the convenience store, or something else that day? Likely. Would Zimmerman have been forced to defend himself setting off a national race-baiting campaign against himself? Only if Trayvon went on to pick his house to rob, which wasn't too likely. When I carry a concealed weapon it isn't because the state has empowered me with the responsibility to uphold laws. That isn't what a carry permit is for. It is for personal self defense. Whatever Trayvon was doing, however suspicious he looked, it posed no immediate threat to Zimmerman. He should have called in a suspicious person and gone home. Let Trayvon be the police's problem. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 1:47:44 PM EDT
[#24]
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I did. It is in the quote. You seem unaware of the actual events too.
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His life was indeed ruined. But wouldn't the alternative been worse? Not really. The alternative would have been Zimmerman notifying the police of a suspicious dindu and then going home and calling it a day. No shooting, no trial, no race baiting attention whores, no death threats. Trayvon Martin would still be thugging around but that wouldn't be Zimmerman's problem, he'd still have his life and his stuff. Here's an alternative for you: Brush up on the actual events of that night. Then you'll sound more like you know what you are talking about than you do right now. Please point out where his post showed ignorance of the "actual events of that night." I did. It is in the quote. You seem unaware of the actual events too.
OK, be specific. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 2:00:25 PM EDT
[#25]
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True, not Zimmerman's problem anymore but sweet little Treyvon was destined to become somebody's nightmare (killing or being killed) eventually. The most disturbing issue is the .gov and MSM response to this. The message being sent is Blacks behaving badly is acceptable and nobody (Black, White, whatever) is allowed to say any different. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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His life was indeed ruined. But wouldn't the alternative been worse? Not really. The alternative would have been Zimmerman notifying the police of a suspicious dindu and then going home and calling it a day. No shooting, no trial, no race baiting attention whores, no death threats. Trayvon Martin would still be thugging around but that wouldn't be Zimmerman's problem, he'd still have his life and his stuff. True, not Zimmerman's problem anymore but sweet little Treyvon was destined to become somebody's nightmare (killing or being killed) eventually. The most disturbing issue is the .gov and MSM response to this. The message being sent is Blacks behaving badly is acceptable and nobody (Black, White, whatever) is allowed to say any different. Yes. And we are seeing that acceptance in the Ferguson rioting/looting sprees, that made it into mainstream media as "mostly peaceful protests, with only a few bad actors" (that even so were never called on the carpet or pursued through channels to find out who these actual criminals were to make sure they stopped tainting the "demonstrations"). These protests and demonstrations have rolled into a multitude of cities and towns that have nothing to do with Ferguson, and you have people stopping traffic on the highways, clogging shopping malls, wearing the "I can't breathe" tshirts (echoes of that group of minority CONGRESSMEN wearing the Trayvon hoodies in unison, making a statement that they stand with the thug, for crap's sake). This shit is making me so mad I can't even see straight. Maybe I need my own tshirt proclaiming that. 
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Posted: 12/18/2014 2:04:35 PM EDT
[#26]
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Understanding the kind of person you may be dealing with well ahead of time conditions how you approach many things. One approaches a grizzly bear much differently than one approaches a deer. +1 Zimmerman went up against a feral person. He should of treated Martin like he was tailing a rabid wolf. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 2:12:24 PM EDT
[#27]
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Zimmerman didn't pull his gun preemtively. He was blindsided, taken to the ground, and was getting pounded from the bottom. At some point in this scuffle his gun was revealed. Trayvon saw the gun and then tried to get the gun. Warning shots are fucking idiotic in the first place, but were utterly impossible in the situation here. Years later and yet a bunch of people STILL do not know even the most basic facts of the case. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I always wondered why Zimmerman didnt fire a few rounds in the air to scare off the attacker? That has to de-escalate all but the most determined assassins. I know if someone fired a round in the air in front of me, my first thought would be the next one won't be in the air, and run as hell. The thugs might be criminal, but they aren't stupid, or completely irrational. Zimmerman didn't pull his gun preemtively. He was blindsided, taken to the ground, and was getting pounded from the bottom. At some point in this scuffle his gun was revealed. Trayvon saw the gun and then tried to get the gun. Warning shots are fucking idiotic in the first place, but were utterly impossible in the situation here. Years later and yet a bunch of people STILL do not know even the most basic facts of the case. Also, I believe warning shots were illegal in FL at the time. (They might be legal in FL now, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're a good idea.) |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 2:15:56 PM EDT
[#28]
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While your insinuation that I am uninformed on the event is much appreciated, my opinion on the matter is unchanged. None of this had to happen, he didn't have to have his entire life ruined. If he had made the call about the suspicious kid and then just gone home, none of this would have happened to him. No one forced him to follow that kid, it wasn't his job. He didn't have to get out of his vehicle either, he could have stayed in it and continued to watch the kid. Again, none of this would have happened. A little more apathy and minding his own business would have made the difference. Might Trayvon Martin have broken into a house, robbed the convenience store, or something else that day? Likely. Would Zimmerman have been forced to defend himself setting off a national race-baiting campaign against himself? Only if Trayvon went on to pick his house to rob, which wasn't too likely. When I carry a concealed weapon it isn't because the state has empowered me with the responsibility to uphold laws. That isn't what a carry permit is for. It is for personal self defense. Whatever Trayvon was doing, however suspicious he looked, it posed no immediate threat to Zimmerman. He should have called in a suspicious person and gone home. Let Trayvon be the police's problem. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not really. The alternative would have been Zimmerman notifying the police of a suspicious dindu and then going home and calling it a day. No shooting, no trial, no race baiting attention whores, no death threats. Trayvon Martin would still be thugging around but that wouldn't be Zimmerman's problem, he'd still have his life and his stuff. Here's an alternative for you: Brush up on the actual events of that night. Then you'll sound more like you know what you are talking about than you do right now. While your insinuation that I am uninformed on the event is much appreciated, my opinion on the matter is unchanged. None of this had to happen, he didn't have to have his entire life ruined. If he had made the call about the suspicious kid and then just gone home, none of this would have happened to him. No one forced him to follow that kid, it wasn't his job. He didn't have to get out of his vehicle either, he could have stayed in it and continued to watch the kid. Again, none of this would have happened. A little more apathy and minding his own business would have made the difference. Might Trayvon Martin have broken into a house, robbed the convenience store, or something else that day? Likely. Would Zimmerman have been forced to defend himself setting off a national race-baiting campaign against himself? Only if Trayvon went on to pick his house to rob, which wasn't too likely. When I carry a concealed weapon it isn't because the state has empowered me with the responsibility to uphold laws. That isn't what a carry permit is for. It is for personal self defense. Whatever Trayvon was doing, however suspicious he looked, it posed no immediate threat to Zimmerman. He should have called in a suspicious person and gone home. Let Trayvon be the police's problem. I would rather have GZ as a neighbor than someone like you. I would almost rather have TM as a neighbor...at least he would be an obvious "person of interest" that I would know to keep a close eye on. I hope your neighbors mind their own business as hard as you do and let scumbags roam the streets around your house with impunity. After all, it's not their business to keep tabs on that sort of thing, and sure, those lowlifes may go on to break into other houses in the neighborhood (most likely not theirs, hopefully--in their MTOB minds minds--ideally the lowlifes target YOUR house so it's not their problem) but they can let the police handle all that nonsense after the fact. People don't have to "play lawman" to keep an eye out for their own home and neighborhood. The more people retreat into the "MYOB, let the authorities handle that" the more we get a nanny-state that makes up ever-invasive laws and regulations to try to do just that. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 2:23:41 PM EDT
[#29]
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People don't have to "play lawman" to keep an eye out for their own home and neighborhood. The more people retreat into the "MYOB, let the authorities handle that" the more we get a nanny-state that makes up ever-invasive laws and regulations to try to do just that. I see what you're saying but TM was just walking down the street. If he's actively breaking into a car or house when GZ confronts him, the narrative changes dramatically. But seeing someone walking down the street with a hoodie on and talking on the phone isn't a reason to begin following or harassing the person. Don't start none, won't be none. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 2:46:44 PM EDT
[#30]
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I see what you're saying but TM was just walking down the street. If he's actively breaking into a car or house when GZ confronts him, the narrative changes dramatically. But seeing someone walking down the street with a hoodie on and talking on the phone isn't a reason to begin following or harassing the person. Don't start none, won't be none. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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People don't have to "play lawman" to keep an eye out for their own home and neighborhood. The more people retreat into the "MYOB, let the authorities handle that" the more we get a nanny-state that makes up ever-invasive laws and regulations to try to do just that. I see what you're saying but TM was just walking down the street. If he's actively breaking into a car or house when GZ confronts him, the narrative changes dramatically. But seeing someone walking down the street with a hoodie on and talking on the phone isn't a reason to begin following or harassing the person. Don't start none, won't be none. Zimmerman did not confront Martin. It was the other way around. Martin came up to him from the bushes, punched him to the ground and proceeded to beat the crap out of him. Another point - where did you learn that Martin was just "walking down the street talking on the phone"? According to the testimony, Martin was lurking around houses, such as looking into the windows and such. That is suspicious behavior Again, please present evidence of Zimmerman confronting Martin. Otherwise, re-read the case. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 2:52:46 PM EDT
[#31]
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I see what you're saying but TM was just walking down the street. If he's actively breaking into a car or house when GZ confronts him, the narrative changes dramatically. But seeing someone walking down the street with a hoodie on and talking on the phone isn't a reason to begin following or harassing the person. Don't start none, won't be none. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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People don't have to "play lawman" to keep an eye out for their own home and neighborhood. The more people retreat into the "MYOB, let the authorities handle that" the more we get a nanny-state that makes up ever-invasive laws and regulations to try to do just that. I see what you're saying but TM was just walking down the street. If he's actively breaking into a car or house when GZ confronts him, the narrative changes dramatically. But seeing someone walking down the street with a hoodie on and talking on the phone isn't a reason to begin following or harassing the person. Don't start none, won't be none. Street? No, TM was walking beside/behind the houses, not in the street or even the sidewalk, but you don't seem too concerned with facts or logic. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 2:55:29 PM EDT
[#32]
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I see what you're saying but TM was just walking down the street. If he's actively breaking into a car or house when GZ confronts him, the narrative changes dramatically. But seeing someone walking down the street with a hoodie on and talking on the phone isn't a reason to begin following or harassing the person. Don't start none, won't be none. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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People don't have to "play lawman" to keep an eye out for their own home and neighborhood. The more people retreat into the "MYOB, let the authorities handle that" the more we get a nanny-state that makes up ever-invasive laws and regulations to try to do just that. I see what you're saying but TM was just walking down the street. If he's actively breaking into a car or house when GZ confronts him, the narrative changes dramatically. But seeing someone walking down the street with a hoodie on and talking on the phone isn't a reason to begin following or harassing the person. Don't start none, won't be none. Oh... so George ASKED for it. He definitely needed his ass beat for asking if Trayvon lived in the neighborhood. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 3:06:56 PM EDT
[#33]
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Zimmerman did not confront Martin. It was the other way around. Martin came up to him from the bushes, punched him to the ground and proceeded to beat the crap out of him. Another point - where did you learn that Martin was just "walking down the street talking on the phone"? According to the testimony, Martin was lurking around houses, such as looking into the windows and such. That is suspicious behavior Again, please present evidence of Zimmerman confronting Martin. Otherwise, re-read the case. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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People don't have to "play lawman" to keep an eye out for their own home and neighborhood. The more people retreat into the "MYOB, let the authorities handle that" the more we get a nanny-state that makes up ever-invasive laws and regulations to try to do just that. I see what you're saying but TM was just walking down the street. If he's actively breaking into a car or house when GZ confronts him, the narrative changes dramatically. But seeing someone walking down the street with a hoodie on and talking on the phone isn't a reason to begin following or harassing the person. Don't start none, won't be none. Zimmerman did not confront Martin. It was the other way around. Martin came up to him from the bushes, punched him to the ground and proceeded to beat the crap out of him. Another point - where did you learn that Martin was just "walking down the street talking on the phone"? According to the testimony, Martin was lurking around houses, such as looking into the windows and such. That is suspicious behavior Again, please present evidence of Zimmerman confronting Martin. Otherwise, re-read the case. "Confronts" was a poor choice of wording and I will re-read the testimony. Was it GZ himself who testified TM was poking around looking into windows or was there an unbiased third party? |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 3:09:05 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:...
I would rather have GZ as a neighbor than someone like you. I would almost rather have TM as a neighbor...at least he would be an obvious "person of interest" that I would know to keep a close eye on. I hope your neighbors mind their own business as hard as you do and let scumbags roam the streets around your house with impunity. After all, it's not their business to keep tabs on that sort of thing, and sure, those lowlifes may go on to break into other houses in the neighborhood (most likely not theirs, hopefully--in their MTOB minds minds--ideally the lowlifes target YOUR house so it's not their problem) but they can let the police handle all that nonsense after the fact... I specifically advocated Zimmerman's reporting of Trayvon, I'm not sure how you missed that. I am all in favor of neighborhood block watches. My neighborhood has one, although I don't think there's ever been any crime here. I have actually called our association security a couple times about suspicious persons who looked out of place. I didn't let it go, because I care about my neighborhood. I called security, gave a description and the direction the person was heading, but that is where it ended. I feel I have an obligation to report anything that looks out of place. But that is where my obligation to my neighbors ends. I have provided for the security of my own family, it is their responsibility to provide for the security of their own families. Of course, were I to be witness to a neighbor being attacked, I would become involved. But that isn't what we are talking about with respect to the Zimmerman case. You might not want me for a neighbor, but my yard is immaculate, my dogs are quiet, my driveway is clear, and my eyes are open. You could do worse. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 3:27:59 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see what you're saying but TM was just walking down the street. If he's actively breaking into a car or house when GZ confronts him, the narrative changes dramatically. But seeing someone walking down the street with a hoodie on and talking on the phone isn't a reason to begin following or harassing the person. Don't start none, won't be none. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
People don't have to "play lawman" to keep an eye out for their own home and neighborhood. The more people retreat into the "MYOB, let the authorities handle that" the more we get a nanny-state that makes up ever-invasive laws and regulations to try to do just that. I see what you're saying but TM was just walking down the street. If he's actively breaking into a car or house when GZ confronts him, the narrative changes dramatically. But seeing someone walking down the street with a hoodie on and talking on the phone isn't a reason to begin following or harassing the person. Don't start none, won't be none. If I'm abiding the law and someone is following me, my first instinct isn't to jump him. Pro-Tip: Criminals tend to act criminally as a course of problem solving. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 3:30:47 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I'm abiding the law and someone is following me, my first instinct isn't to jump him. Pro-Tip: Criminals tend to act criminally as a course of problem solving. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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People don't have to "play lawman" to keep an eye out for their own home and neighborhood. The more people retreat into the "MYOB, let the authorities handle that" the more we get a nanny-state that makes up ever-invasive laws and regulations to try to do just that. I see what you're saying but TM was just walking down the street. If he's actively breaking into a car or house when GZ confronts him, the narrative changes dramatically. But seeing someone walking down the street with a hoodie on and talking on the phone isn't a reason to begin following or harassing the person. Don't start none, won't be none. If I'm abiding the law and someone is following me, my first instinct isn't to jump him. Pro-Tip: Criminals tend to act criminally as a course of problem solving. What if it was a creepy ass cracker? |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 3:31:42 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I'm abiding the law and someone is following me, my first instinct isn't to jump him. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
People don't have to "play lawman" to keep an eye out for their own home and neighborhood. The more people retreat into the "MYOB, let the authorities handle that" the more we get a nanny-state that makes up ever-invasive laws and regulations to try to do just that. I see what you're saying but TM was just walking down the street. If he's actively breaking into a car or house when GZ confronts him, the narrative changes dramatically. But seeing someone walking down the street with a hoodie on and talking on the phone isn't a reason to begin following or harassing the person. Don't start none, won't be none. If I'm abiding the law and someone is following me, my first instinct isn't to jump him. In what way does that make Zimmerman's decision to follow him a good idea? |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 3:34:22 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I'm abiding the law and someone is following me, my first instinct isn't to jump him. Pro-Tip: Criminals tend to act criminally as a course of problem solving. Trayvon was a budding young thug, who felt direspected. Consequently, he felt it was time to beat some ass on that short, dumpy cracker. He received the proper response for his behavior. I'm sorry, but there it is. As somebody in this very thread said, "don't start nothin', won't be nothin'" |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 3:36:38 PM EDT
[#39]
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In what way does that make Zimmerman's decision to follow him a good idea? To help keep tabs until the authorities arrived, per their request. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 3:38:14 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Trayvon was a budding young thug, who felt direspected. Consequently, he felt it was time to beat some ass on that short, dumpy cracker. He received the proper response for his behavior. I'm sorry, but there it is. As somebody in this very thread said, "don't start nothin', won't be nothin'" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If I'm abiding the law and someone is following me, my first instinct isn't to jump him. Pro-Tip: Criminals tend to act criminally as a course of problem solving. Trayvon was a budding young thug, who felt direspected. Consequently, he felt it was time to beat some ass on that short, dumpy cracker. He received the proper response for his behavior. I'm sorry, but there it is. As somebody in this very thread said, "don't start nothin', won't be nothin'" Are you agreeing with me? I'm confused. 
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Posted: 12/18/2014 3:42:39 PM EDT
[#41]
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In the moment where he pulled the gun he had no other option. It's the moments prior to that moment where he had options...and where I betcha if he could do it over again he'd do a whole lot of things differently. It would behoove everyone to consider the potential outcomes before getting into something they can't control. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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His life was indeed ruined. But wouldn't the alternative been worse? In the moment where he pulled the gun he had no other option. It's the moments prior to that moment where he had options...and where I betcha if he could do it over again he'd do a whole lot of things differently. It would behoove everyone to consider the potential outcomes before getting into something they can't control. But.. But, sheepdogs! |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 3:42:40 PM EDT
[#42]
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Are you agreeing with me? I'm confused. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If I'm abiding the law and someone is following me, my first instinct isn't to jump him. Pro-Tip: Criminals tend to act criminally as a course of problem solving. Trayvon was a budding young thug, who felt direspected. Consequently, he felt it was time to beat some ass on that short, dumpy cracker. He received the proper response for his behavior. I'm sorry, but there it is. As somebody in this very thread said, "don't start nothin', won't be nothin'" Are you agreeing with me? I'm confused. Maybe.
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Posted: 12/18/2014 3:44:13 PM EDT
[#43]
The Brain Trust
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Posted: 12/18/2014 3:45:56 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Trayvon was a budding young thug, who felt direspected. Consequently, he felt it was time to beat some ass on that short, dumpy cracker. He received the proper response for his behavior. I'm sorry, but there it is. As somebody in this very thread said, "don't start nothin', won't be nothin'" Right. Martin's actions were every bit as unreasonable as Mike Brown's actions against Officer Wilson...but in both cases their actions were completely ignored so that the white guy (or white hispanic, whatever the fuck that is) could be turned into some sort of menacing racist looking for trouble. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 3:53:53 PM EDT
[#45]
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To help keep tabs until the authorities arrived, per their request. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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In what way does that make Zimmerman's decision to follow him a good idea? To help keep tabs until the authorities arrived, per their request. So things that happened in the future affected his decision. Got it. I'm not even getting into how absurd "the authorities request" that he tell them if he does anything while moving toward Zimmerman warped into "keep tabs on him." 
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Posted: 12/18/2014 3:58:33 PM EDT
[#46]
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To help keep tabs until the authorities arrived, per their request. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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In what way does that make Zimmerman's decision to follow him a good idea? To help keep tabs until the authorities arrived, per their request. Wait a minute, when did "the authorities" request GZ to "keep tabs" on TM? |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 4:12:18 PM EDT
[#47]
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Wait a minute, when did "the authorities" request GZ to "keep tabs" on TM? Didn't the dispatcher request an address? |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 4:18:43 PM EDT
[#48]
I think Massad Ayoob gave one of the best summations of disparity of force I've ever heard in one of his youtube videos. Was a lecture worthy of a law professor on the matter.
Zimmerman didn't exercise the stand your ground option. His attorney selected the standard self-defense affirmative defense. I think 99% of CCW licensed folks are walking around with no clue how great the liability they face really is both criminal and civil. Sure, the majority of States now have shall-issue licenses, but most of those States still have statutes and courts that have set a real high bar when it comes to self-defense. The move to get concealed carry more accepted has been great, but it hasn't been followed with the backing good folks needs in terms of strong stand your ground laws. Until we see protections for CCW holders increase it really is a risky thing to carry concealed. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 4:34:50 PM EDT
[#49]
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Go on. You know, he used to post here... until a bunch of real assclowns piled on him, accused him of being a fraud, teaching classes drunk, etc. Were you one of those folks by chance? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'll listen later, but Ayoob has always been contradictory in his writhing and kind of assclownish. Light years better than Yeager but that's not saying much. Go on. You know, he used to post here... until a bunch of real assclowns piled on him, accused him of being a fraud, teaching classes drunk, etc. Were you one of those folks by chance? No shit. I was happy to see Mas here; I've been reading his stuff since he started writing. He got jumped and left, and took a wealth of knowledge with him. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 4:46:41 PM EDT
[#50]
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I would leave my house to ask the perps to stop. If they didn't, I'd be more insistant. If they still didn't, I might move towards them, or perhaps lob any handy object at them. Maybe I'd shout loudly or shove them aside. I do not have to let anyone steal from me. I would stop them. If during any of my attempts to protect what is lawfully mine I feel threatened, I would take the necessary actions to protect myself. It would be to my discretion what I would decide is necessary. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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"The anti self defense crowd" really being the "don't be a dumbass crowd. You would think that Zimmerman would be a cautionary tale, but people here still rant about how they would leave their house to fight three men breaking into a parked car in their driveway. I would leave my house to ask the perps to stop. If they didn't, I'd be more insistant. If they still didn't, I might move towards them, or perhaps lob any handy object at them. Maybe I'd shout loudly or shove them aside. I do not have to let anyone steal from me. I would stop them. If during any of my attempts to protect what is lawfully mine I feel threatened, I would take the necessary actions to protect myself. It would be to my discretion what I would decide is necessary. So, just to make sure I understand this correctly, you would: 1- Enter a 3:1 force disparity over an unoccupied vehicle, and 2- Escalate force by throwing a projectile, and 3- Close to within contact distance, and 4- In this same disparity of force, now escalated by verbal and less-lethal throwing of a rock or something, in which your are at bad-breath range, further escalate by shoving, and 5- Persist in the belief that in the setting of #4, that you would be physically able to access and effectively use your firearm against 3 opponents, at least some of whom are within the magical 21 foot range, and 6- Be able to protect yourself 360 degrees and be completely certain that "perp" #4 wasn't waiting in the wings as a lookout. If that's your intent, I'm not going to stop you. That mindset ensures job security for me. I trust, in this scenario, that you have no family or loved ones inside the house who would be at risk of retaliation should your plan fail. Personally, I'm not inclined to die over the contents of my car. I'd prefer to stick around and save my dying to protect the living, if it ever comes to that. |
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