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Posted: 12/19/2014 4:59:10 PM EDT
[#1]
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I did buy some quality AR's Doubt it. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 4:59:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Why is it that when I go to a website dedicated primarily to Stoner guns most people are fanboys for AR15s and think AKs are junk, but when I go to an AK website they think Stoner guns are flimsy pieces of crap and think that AKs will survive for 1000 years without maintenance?
I've got a lot to think about from this thread. How can two groups of people come to two opposite conclusions? I'm thinking that most people have a conclusion already decided, and congregate where their opinion will be reinforced. It's a new theory of human behavior that needs to be studied, I can't find anything about it on Google. Maybe it's also relevant to politics and religion as well? I'm going to email my militia's colonels and talk to all 87 of them about this. Maybe AKs and ARs are both crap and we need a new platform for us patriot liberty defenders. I'll go buy a Mini 14 for a dry-fire torture test in my backyard this weekend. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 5:01:55 PM EDT
[#3]
Is anybody really surprised that AK's rattle themselves apart? They are pressed together out of folded stamped steel, and then riveted.
At least the Jews had the common sense to use a solid receiver, and then thread the barrel for a nice fit that won't rattle itself apart. Even milled AK's are crap, due to the same silly press fit and rivet design of fitting the barrel into the trunnion.
These things are built like a GM car, designed to be sloppily thrown together quickly, cheaply, and to work (kinda). If they break, there is no maintenance, you just toss it into the trash can, and get another one. I'm glad that my own functions well enough that I didn't have to do exactly that. 
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Posted: 12/19/2014 5:09:37 PM EDT
[#4]
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If I might ask, just what sort of environment are you shooting all these flawless AKs, and all these ARs that won't shoot a routine range session without a malfunction? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You guys are choking on your own bullshit seriously. I have several AK's with over 15K rounds through them each that have never once malfunctioned since I owned them. "Never once malfunctioned" = All malfunctions (so far) have been correctable in the field, so I don't count those. 15k and no malfs is statistically impossible. ALL machines fuck up, sooner or later. Well you could do some research and learn about AK high round count torture tests that were done by their prospective militaries. I'm talking high tens and even some with a few hundred thousand rounds through one rifle. Course they are shot out but they work. However a malfunction is a malfunction- if the weapon stops, that's a malfunction. I am telling you right now, I have had in half of my lifetime of shooting AK's across dozens upon dozens of them- that all the malfunctions I've experienced can be counted in the single digits. As in I can actually remember each single time I've experienced an AK malfunction, that's how few I've had. However I cannot even begin to tell you how many hundreds of malfunctions experienced with AR's for various issues- even in one range trip. Yes I know how to maintain them, but that's just it- blame the person not the rifle eh? In my experience, the AR just isn't as reliable. It requires one of two things always, maintenance and tons of lube- not a good combo for a battle weapon. I would gladly sell all my AK's off today if I could find a better rifle. The AUG is close, it's a good rifle, extremely reliable more so than just about any other NATO rifle but the bullpup thing for me is taking some getting used to. He lives in a reality warp where wild exaggerations become reality. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 5:09:57 PM EDT
[#5]
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We need to follow up this with a Bullpup bash thread.  BEHOLD! ULTIMATE FAILURE! http://i.imgur.com/hD08A5Y.jpg So much gross in one gun |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 5:11:15 PM EDT
[#6]
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I would suggest that if you are having "hundreds of malfunctions" with ARs for various reasons that you do not, in fact, know how to maintain them. Or buy them. Or set them up to run properly. Or lube them. Or basically do anything related to not being a ARtard. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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However I cannot even begin to tell you how many hundreds of malfunctions experienced with AR's for various issues- even in one range trip. Yes I know how to maintain them I would suggest that if you are having "hundreds of malfunctions" with ARs for various reasons that you do not, in fact, know how to maintain them. Or buy them. Or set them up to run properly. Or lube them. Or basically do anything related to not being a ARtard. Same here. I've only encountered few problems with ARs. Stick with quality ARs, or quality parts if you build, and quality mags. Should be GTG. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 5:11:18 PM EDT
[#7]
This thread is proof that opinions can be wrong.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 5:14:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Had the Iraqis been armed with top-tier AFVs, offensive and defensive counter air, and been trained comparably to US forces, I think the first Gulf War may have turned out significantly more costly to the US than it did. They fought a retreating battle with much surrender, including if I remember correctly from my reading a large infantry element saying "FUCK THIS I QUIT" and sitting down with their arms crossed and underwear on sticks when an Apache showed up. They needed far more training, more willpower, more MANPADS, and current AFVs instead of a stock of BMP-1s and T-55s.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 5:17:29 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 12/19/2014 5:29:02 PM EDT
[#10]
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One of the most reliable and durable weapons ever conceived. Love 'em! Especially well-built Arsenals!  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yeah totally original thread I know but humor me.....Why do some of you hate the AK? One of the most reliable and durable weapons ever conceived. Love 'em! Especially well-built Arsenals! True! These things are also true: 5.56 tumbles in flight on purpose and bounces around inside when it hits someone. 5.56 was designed to wound because it takes more people to care for wounded than dead. Mattel made the M16. If you file your firing pin down your gun will be full-auto. HK fluted chambers ruin brass so it isn't reloadable; the stripes aren't just carbon that comes off in the tumbler. Shotguns are best for defense because you don't even have to shoot them, the sound of racking a pump makes everyone run away. Winter jackets made in China are great anti .30 carbine armor. Bullets rise in flight. My friend's dad has a 49 Magnum semi-auto revolver that knocks you off your feet when you shoot it. . |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 5:46:48 PM EDT
[#11]
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No way. My AR shoots groups at 25meters that can fit inside of a quarter. My AK74's groups are like 3-4 inches in diameter at 25meters. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Here's the thing about a 74, they are as accurate as a standard M4, equally off the cold bore. I own both. However, the groups do tend to open more with the 74 once they get heated. The groups don't double or anything, maybe go from 2.5MOA to say around 3.5MOA after a couple mags. If you know this, you can control your rate of fire and keep consistent with accuracy. Removing the cleaning rod also increases the accuracy. No way. My AR shoots groups at 25meters that can fit inside of a quarter. My AK74's groups are like 3-4 inches in diameter at 25meters. Maybe you got one of the Century 5.56 barrels ?? My Interarms Tantal with original polish barrel will do just what he's saying all damn day. So much so that it's almost boring. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 5:51:05 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why is it that when I go to a website dedicated primarily to Stoner guns most people are fanboys for AR15s and think AKs are junk, but when I go to an AK website they think Stoner guns are flimsy pieces of crap and think that AKs will survive for 1000 years without maintenance? I've got a lot to think about from this thread. How can two groups of people come to two opposite conclusions? I'm thinking that most people have a conclusion already decided, and congregate where their opinion will be reinforced. It's a new theory of human behavior that needs to be studied, I can't find anything about it on Google. Maybe it's also relevant to politics and religion as well? I'm going to email my militia's colonels and talk to all 87 of them about this. Maybe AKs and ARs are both crap and we need a new platform for us patriot liberty defenders. I'll go buy a Mini 14 for a dry-fire torture test in my backyard this weekend. Look here, theres even a discussion going on just about it on this AK47 site: http://www.ak47.net/forums/t_1_5/1696148_AK_haters______Why_do_you_hate_the_AK_.html&page=1
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Posted: 12/19/2014 6:35:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shade_1313:
If I might ask, just what sort of environment are you shooting all these flawless AKs, and all these ARs that won't shoot a routine range session without a malfunction? Wasn't it a range somewhere in Ohio? Something about and AR not being able to make it through 3 mags in the brutal winter weather. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 6:37:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Never seen any factory comm-bloc AK with a roll pin holding the gas piston. American converted 922r century AK ?? Yep, those have roll pins and are sometimes welded.
Seems like the AR has gone thru constant revision to make it more like the AK... 1. Convert it to gas piston for more reliability. 2. 5.56 not reliably expanding at range so first they keep increasing the bullet weight, 62 gr. then 77gr. OTM. Then said "fuck it" and went 6.8 SPC. 3. Alum. mags not durable enough so first we redesign the followers to make it stop malf.'ing, then go to SS for material upgrade over alum., now polymer. Hmmmm....... 
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Posted: 12/19/2014 6:38:25 PM EDT
[#15]
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Wasn't it a range somewhere in Ohio? Something about and AR not being able to make it through 3 mags in the brutal winter weather. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Originally Posted By shade_1313:
If I might ask, just what sort of environment are you shooting all these flawless AKs, and all these ARs that won't shoot a routine range session without a malfunction? Wasn't it a range somewhere in Ohio? Something about and AR not being able to make it through 3 mags in the brutal winter weather. I shoot my 308, 300, and 556 AR's in below zero conditions at my cabin all the time. I have yet to see malfunctions. The coldest I've done is -20. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 6:52:07 PM EDT
[#16]
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Never seen any factory comm-bloc AK with a roll pin holding the gas piston. American converted 922r century AK ?? Yep, those have roll pins and are sometimes welded. Seems like the AR has gone thru constant revision to make it more like the AK... 1. Convert it to gas piston for more reliability. 2. 5.56 not reliably expanding at range so first they keep increasing the bullet weight, 62 gr. then 77gr. OTM. Then said "fuck it" and went .300BLK. 3. Alum. mags not durable enough so first we redesign the followers to make it stop malf.'ing, then go to SS for material upgrade over alum., now polymer. Hmmmm....... FIFY
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Posted: 12/19/2014 6:56:17 PM EDT
[#17]
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I shoot my 308, 300, and 556 AR's in below zero conditions at my cabin all the time. I have yet to see malfunctions. The coldest I've done is -20. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Originally Posted By shade_1313:
If I might ask, just what sort of environment are you shooting all these flawless AKs, and all these ARs that won't shoot a routine range session without a malfunction? Wasn't it a range somewhere in Ohio? Something about and AR not being able to make it through 3 mags in the brutal winter weather. I shoot my 308, 300, and 556 AR's in below zero conditions at my cabin all the time. I have yet to see malfunctions. The coldest I've done is -20. What kind of lube? Gun oils like Rem Oil would get too viscous when near freezing and below and would cause malfunctions for me in NY. Light application of CLP like you're supposed to would work fine. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 7:09:20 PM EDT
[#18]
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Never seen any factory comm-bloc AK with a roll pin holding the gas piston. American converted 922r century AK ?? Yep, those have roll pins and are sometimes welded. Seems like the AR has gone thru constant revision to make it more like the AK... 1. Convert it to gas piston for more reliability. 2. 5.56 not reliably expanding at range so first they keep increasing the bullet weight, 62 gr. then 77gr. OTM. Then said "fuck it" and went 6.8 SPC. 3. Alum. mags not durable enough so first we redesign the followers to make it stop malf.'ing, then go to SS for material upgrade over alum., now polymer. Hmmmm....... 
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Posted: 12/19/2014 7:13:23 PM EDT
[#19]
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What kind of lube? Gun oils like Rem Oil would get too viscous when near freezing and below and would cause malfunctions for me in NY. Light application of CLP like you're supposed to would work fine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Originally Posted By shade_1313:
If I might ask, just what sort of environment are you shooting all these flawless AKs, and all these ARs that won't shoot a routine range session without a malfunction? Wasn't it a range somewhere in Ohio? Something about and AR not being able to make it through 3 mags in the brutal winter weather. I shoot my 308, 300, and 556 AR's in below zero conditions at my cabin all the time. I have yet to see malfunctions. The coldest I've done is -20. What kind of lube? Gun oils like Rem Oil would get too viscous when near freezing and below and would cause malfunctions for me in NY. Light application of CLP like you're supposed to would work fine. People really use Rem Oil? 
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Posted: 12/19/2014 7:15:16 PM EDT
[#20]
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What kind of lube? Gun oils like Rem Oil would get too viscous when near freezing and below and would cause malfunctions for me in NY. Light application of CLP like you're supposed to would work fine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Originally Posted By shade_1313:
If I might ask, just what sort of environment are you shooting all these flawless AKs, and all these ARs that won't shoot a routine range session without a malfunction? Wasn't it a range somewhere in Ohio? Something about and AR not being able to make it through 3 mags in the brutal winter weather. I shoot my 308, 300, and 556 AR's in below zero conditions at my cabin all the time. I have yet to see malfunctions. The coldest I've done is -20. What kind of lube? Gun oils like Rem Oil would get too viscous when near freezing and below and would cause malfunctions for me in NY. Light application of CLP like you're supposed to would work fine. LOL... "viscous" and Rem-Oil in the same sentence. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 7:15:17 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've had stuck casings with AK's chambered in 5.56 on a few occasions. I have all Colt's now as far as AR's go, to eliminate the possibility that maybe the reasons I experienced certain malfunctions was that the weapons were out of spec. Factory AK's I could see breaking under high round count would be Egyptian and Romanian with maybe some early Russians. But the Hungarians, Bulgarians, and factory Yugo's I could see going the distance. My personal highest round count rifles are all Bulgarian. I've actually had to replace the hammer after it has gotten so severely deformed from use in two of my rifles. The rifles themselves just keep on going. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well you could do some research and learn about AK high round count torture tests that were done by their prospective militaries. I'm talking high tens and even some with a few hundred thousand rounds through one rifle. Course they are shot out but they work. However a malfunction is a malfunction- if the weapon stops, that's a malfunction. I am telling you right now, I have had in half of my lifetime of shooting AK's across dozens upon dozens of them- that all the malfunctions I've experienced can be counted in the single digits. As in I can actually remember each single time I've experienced an AK malfunction, that's how few I've had. However I cannot even begin to tell you how many hundreds of malfunctions experienced with AR's for various issues- even in one range trip. Yes I know how to maintain them, but that's just it- blame the person not the rifle eh? In my experience, the AR just isn't as reliable. It requires one of two things always, maintenance and tons of lube- not a good combo for a battle weapon. I would gladly sell all my AK's off today if I could find a better rifle. The AUG is close, it's a good rifle, extremely reliable more so than just about any other NATO rifle but the bullpup thing for me is taking some getting used to. Sounds like vismods, or Russian ammo. If the gun was made by the US after-market, with no understanding of materials science and the TDP, it will fart the bed like an AK. I've had AK's with seized cases in the chamber where you had to kick-start the gun using the charge handle on the edge of something. I've seen new AK's break under high volume. A Bushmaster or DPMS will behave the same way much of the time. Funny thing is, my Colt M4's, M16A1's, & M16A2's ran like clocks, and I actually got trigger time behind them all over a 10 year period ranging from conditions in the US to Korea to Panama to the Middle East. If you make a gun like the Russians and Central Asians do, no matter the design, it will fail with regularity. There is nothing mystical about Russian designs. They actually have good engineers, but the concept of QC and standardization in manufacture are very difficult for them, let alone the buffer state regions. I don't think a lot of people in the States could ever gain an appreciation for how primitive things are there. I've had stuck casings with AK's chambered in 5.56 on a few occasions. I have all Colt's now as far as AR's go, to eliminate the possibility that maybe the reasons I experienced certain malfunctions was that the weapons were out of spec. Factory AK's I could see breaking under high round count would be Egyptian and Romanian with maybe some early Russians. But the Hungarians, Bulgarians, and factory Yugo's I could see going the distance. My personal highest round count rifles are all Bulgarian. I've actually had to replace the hammer after it has gotten so severely deformed from use in two of my rifles. The rifles themselves just keep on going. I can believe it. A box of ammo will really fuck up potmetal like that. Nick |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 7:22:50 PM EDT
[#22]
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People really use Rem Oil? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Originally Posted By shade_1313:
If I might ask, just what sort of environment are you shooting all these flawless AKs, and all these ARs that won't shoot a routine range session without a malfunction? Wasn't it a range somewhere in Ohio? Something about and AR not being able to make it through 3 mags in the brutal winter weather. I shoot my 308, 300, and 556 AR's in below zero conditions at my cabin all the time. I have yet to see malfunctions. The coldest I've done is -20. What kind of lube? Gun oils like Rem Oil would get too viscous when near freezing and below and would cause malfunctions for me in NY. Light application of CLP like you're supposed to would work fine. People really use Rem Oil? Yeah, before the days of arfcom, some people actually bought that stuff. I've seen other people use the stuff too. 
That's why I put "like" - hell if I remember what exactly what it was, but I used gun oils with a viscosity you'd expect of oil, not like Break-Free CLP which is like water. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 7:25:25 PM EDT
[#23]
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LOL... "viscous" and Rem-Oil in the same sentence. Apparently bad example... I haven't used the stuff in probably 20 years. *ETA - Thought it was them, but I could be wrong too. It was in a squeeze bottle, not an aerosol can. Switched to Eezox & CLP a looooong time ago. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 7:35:15 PM EDT
[#24]
no hate here, I just don't care for the ergonomics and the sights. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 7:58:02 PM EDT
[#25]
If they offered the K2 in the U.S. once again, threads like these wouldn't exist any longer, and all black rifle owners could live in peace. Those that still vehemently defend their "pure" AR or AK platform will be hunted down, persecuted, and eliminated. No tolerance for BRD ultra-hoplophile extremists. One big happy family. A new world order. Whether you want it or not. As long as you think like me. Kind of like liberalism.
Don't fight it. You'll love it. 
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Posted: 12/19/2014 8:01:57 PM EDT
[#26]
Next up for discussion.....AK's for home defense.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 8:03:57 PM EDT
[#27]
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That's why I put "like" - hell if I remember what exactly what it was, but I used gun oils with a viscosity you'd expect of oil, not like Break-Free CLP which is like water. Break Free CLP is what the Army bought for years. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 8:15:27 PM EDT
[#28]
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Why is it that when I go to a website dedicated primarily to Stoner guns most people are fanboys for AR15s and think AKs are junk, but when I go to an AK website they think Stoner guns are flimsy pieces of crap and think that AKs will survive for 1000 years without maintenance? I've got a lot to think about from this thread. How can two groups of people come to two opposite conclusions? I'm thinking that most people have a conclusion already decided, and congregate where their opinion will be reinforced. It's a new theory of human behavior that needs to be studied, I can't find anything about it on Google. Maybe it's also relevant to politics and religion as well? I'm going to email my militia's colonels and talk to all 87 of them about this. Maybe AKs and ARs are both crap and we need a new platform for us patriot liberty defenders. I'll go buy a Mini 14 for a dry-fire torture test in my backyard this weekend. people have their favorite platforms and will go to great lengths to justify their position... AK's are a fine weapon. Simple to operate, cheap to build, and reliable, and if they were as crappy as people claim them to be I doubt that they would see such widespread usage for so long.. I have one AK, a poly-tech NM Legend. I own it more or less for novelties sake..I like AK's and would like another one, but the fact is I like the AR platform more and would rather buy another AR or upgrade an existing AR before I spend more money on an AK. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 8:42:27 PM EDT
[#29]
I love my AKs - I own eight, but they just can't hang with ARs in the accuracy department. I have tried and tried to make M77 and SGL21s as accurate as my Colt / FN ARs and it simply can't do it. I might get lucky and shoot a 2" group with my AKs then turn around and shoot a 4" group. I do believe AKs are reliable and people posting slam them because they are foreign made or used abused guns in Iraq or Afghanistan. Most of the AKs I seen fail are Romanian or rebuilt parts guns - mainly Polish Tantals / Bulgarian AK 74s from Century, Interarms, or TGI with American barrels. The European made AKs I have been excellent, not American assembled guns which are mostly garbage. I had an Arsenal SLR106UR with a barrel that had a non-concentric bore and shot severely to one side which to me was worse than a canted sight. I have had numerous PSLs that could not properly cycle ammo from jacked up / custom fitted mags. I have numerous WASRs with FCG retention springs fall apart during range use. I have had numerous AKs with canted sights - Romanian and Russian. I have abused AKs and they function fine as long as they were assembled correctly by European factories.
ARs fail just as much as well made AKs. I have had issues with my Colt 6920 and Pmags when it was cold 5-10 degrees outside shooting. I have seen many stuck cases in name brand ARs that dead lined the guns and needed a cleaning rod to pound out the round out - a Rock River and a LMT MWS with surplus issued .308". I refuse to shoot Tula in my ARs because I fear stuck cases. Both AR and AKs fail all the time and maintenance is the key to any reliable firearm. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:40:23 PM EDT
[#30]
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Break Free CLP is what the Army bought for years. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That's why I put "like" - hell if I remember what exactly what it was, but I used gun oils with a viscosity you'd expect of oil, not like Break-Free CLP which is like water. Break Free CLP is what the Army bought for years. I still use it on tons of stuff, including guns & stainless appliances. It's oil. I don't get the oil snob thing. I'll use just about anything. I use lithium grease on pistols I shoot suppressed so they don't get so dirty. Works fine. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:51:19 PM EDT
[#31]
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people have their favorite platforms and will go to great lengths to justify their position... AK's are a fine weapon. Simple to operate, cheap to build, and reliable, and if they were as crappy as people claim them to be I doubt that they would see such widespread usage for so long.. I have one AK, a poly-tech NM Legend. I own it more or less for novelties sake..I like AK's and would like another one, but the fact is I like the AR platform more and would rather buy another AR or upgrade an existing AR before I spend more money on an AK. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why is it that when I go to a website dedicated primarily to Stoner guns most people are fanboys for AR15s and think AKs are junk, but when I go to an AK website they think Stoner guns are flimsy pieces of crap and think that AKs will survive for 1000 years without maintenance? I've got a lot to think about from this thread. How can two groups of people come to two opposite conclusions? I'm thinking that most people have a conclusion already decided, and congregate where their opinion will be reinforced. It's a new theory of human behavior that needs to be studied, I can't find anything about it on Google. Maybe it's also relevant to politics and religion as well? I'm going to email my militia's colonels and talk to all 87 of them about this. Maybe AKs and ARs are both crap and we need a new platform for us patriot liberty defenders. I'll go buy a Mini 14 for a dry-fire torture test in my backyard this weekend. people have their favorite platforms and will go to great lengths to justify their position... AK's are a fine weapon. Simple to operate, cheap to build, and reliable, and if they were as crappy as people claim them to be I doubt that they would see such widespread usage for so long.. I have one AK, a poly-tech NM Legend. I own it more or less for novelties sake..I like AK's and would like another one, but the fact is I like the AR platform more and would rather buy another AR or upgrade an existing AR before I spend more money on an AK. They have been selling a whole bunch of Jennings for a long time, too. Notice how poor all the countries who use AKs are? |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:15:36 PM EDT
[#32]
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I still use it on tons of stuff, including guns & stainless appliances. It's oil. I don't get the oil snob thing. I'll use just about anything. I use lithium grease on pistols I shoot suppressed so they don't get so dirty. Works fine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That's why I put "like" - hell if I remember what exactly what it was, but I used gun oils with a viscosity you'd expect of oil, not like Break-Free CLP which is like water. Break Free CLP is what the Army bought for years. I still use it on tons of stuff, including guns & stainless appliances. It's oil. I don't get the oil snob thing. I'll use just about anything. I use lithium grease on pistols I shoot suppressed so they don't get so dirty. Works fine. I like CLP on my guns, Its my go to lube |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:37:14 PM EDT
[#33]
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I don't know what you saw. I could probably look at them and tell you what's wrong, that either extreme neglect, abuse, or years upon years of use with corrosive ammo destroyed them. Like I said I would gladly sell off my remaining AK's I own if I could find something that would be at least as reliable with better ergonomics. Never found a suitable replacement yet. I did buy some quality AR's thinking maybe they might be able to hang with the lowly 106 Arsenals. I doubt it over the long haul. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You guys are choking on your own bullshit seriously. I have several AK's with over 15K rounds through them each that have never once malfunctioned since I owned them. So all the malfs and broken AK's I have personally experienced, had to document, and put deadline tags on were my imagination. I don't know what you saw. I could probably look at them and tell you what's wrong, that either extreme neglect, abuse, or years upon years of use with corrosive ammo destroyed them. Like I said I would gladly sell off my remaining AK's I own if I could find something that would be at least as reliable with better ergonomics. Never found a suitable replacement yet. I did buy some quality AR's thinking maybe they might be able to hang with the lowly 106 Arsenals. I doubt it over the long haul. lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololollolololololololololololollololololololololololololololoLOLOLOLOLLLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:38:12 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why is it that when I go to a website dedicated primarily to Stoner guns most people are fanboys for AR15s and think AKs are junk, but when I go to an AK website they think Stoner guns are flimsy pieces of crap and think that AKs will survive for 1000 years without maintenance? I've got a lot to think about from this thread. How can two groups of people come to two opposite conclusions? I'm thinking that most people have a conclusion already decided, and congregate where their opinion will be reinforced. It's a new theory of human behavior that needs to be studied, I can't find anything about it on Google. Maybe it's also relevant to politics and religion as well? I'm going to email my militia's colonels and talk to all 87 of them about this. Maybe AKs and ARs are both crap and we need a new platform for us patriot liberty defenders. I'll go buy a Mini 14 for a dry-fire torture test in my backyard this weekend. I grew up sucking down the propaganda like cool-aid, where I read Time articles declaring that US soldiers in Vietnam preferred AK's over their lousy M16's made from plastic, watched Red Dawn, and was in love with black gloss paint and red laminate wood from the AKM. I was thoroughly convinced that the AKM was the ultimate assault rifle on plant earth, and I had to have one. I also noticed that most professional soldiers in that era preferred to carry an XM177E2, so I was a bit torn, and had to have one of them too. In my first unit, we really ran the AK's for fam fire, but when I really started shooting them, they broke, and yes, ROMAK AKM's (real ones, select-fire, acquired through some back channels and on 1st SFG's books) had roll pins holding the pistons onto the bolt carrier, and those are the roll pins that worked out and started trashing the gas tubes. When running high volume courses, I watch Arsenals go down all the time, as soon as we start warming the guns up. FTFire, FTFeed. The Bulgarians have not exempted themselves from Slav/Eastern European "QC". Like I said, the only variants that work well across the board are the Finnish guns, which the Israeli's copied and used as the basis for the Galil, which is another turd in terms of weight/balance, especially for a little male in Israel. The Israeli's have dumped their Galil's off on a bunch of other countries, and don't use them anymore, unless some reserve units have them around. It's a boat anchor, just like the Valmet. 
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:56:01 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Had the Iraqis been armed with top-tier AFVs, offensive and defensive counter air, and been trained comparably to US forces, I think the first Gulf War may have turned out significantly more costly to the US than it did. They fought a retreating battle with much surrender, including if I remember correctly from my reading a large infantry element saying "FUCK THIS I QUIT" and sitting down with their arms crossed and underwear on sticks when an Apache showed up. They needed far more training, more willpower, more MANPADS, and current AFVs instead of a stock of BMP-1s and T-55s. So if they were US, they would have been harder to fight. OMG BECKY WHO KNEW Guess which rifle our military uses?
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:58:53 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love my AKs - I own eight, but they just can't hang with ARs in the accuracy department. I have tried and tried to make M77 and SGL21s as accurate as my Colt / FN ARs and it simply can't do it. I might get lucky and shoot a 2" group with my AKs then turn around and shoot a 4" group. I do believe AKs are reliable and people posting slam them because they are foreign made or used abused guns in Iraq or Afghanistan. Most of the AKs I seen fail are Romanian or rebuilt parts guns - mainly Polish Tantals / Bulgarian AK 74s from Century, Interarms, or TGI with American barrels. The European made AKs I have been excellent, not American assembled guns which are mostly garbage. I had an Arsenal SLR106UR with a barrel that had a non-concentric bore and shot severely to one side which to me was worse than a canted sight. I have had numerous PSLs that could not properly cycle ammo from jacked up / custom fitted mags. I have numerous WASRs with FCG retention springs fall apart during range use. I have had numerous AKs with canted sights - Romanian and Russian. I have abused AKs and they function fine as long as they were assembled correctly by European factories. ARs fail just as much as well made AKs. I have had issues with my Colt 6920 and Pmags when it was cold 5-10 degrees outside shooting. I have seen many stuck cases in name brand ARs that dead lined the guns and needed a cleaning rod to pound out the round out - a Rock River and a LMT MWS with surplus issued .308". I refuse to shoot Tula in my ARs because I fear stuck cases. Both AR and AKs fail all the time and maintenance is the key to any reliable firearm. Rock River doesn't make AR's, they make look-alikes. None of the parts are the same, down to the detents, which I learned the hard way in Arctic conditions. The ROMAK's, Arsenals, Izhmash, Yuogo's, Chinese, Egyptian, North Korean, and every other AK except the Finnish guns have problems symptomatic of their countries of origin. I know guys in the Finnish Defense Forces that have watched 250k rounds go downrange through Valmets and SAKO's, with no malfs. I've heard of them occasionally Kalashing the bed, but haven't seen it yet. I think that is a result of: * Finnish made rifles * Finnish high quality brass-cased ammo * Finnish mags I actually start to see more problems with AK's the colder it gets. I think the tolerances and steel quality are such that things move on you, ending up with FTFire malfs. Every time someone has a malf with an AK, I yell out in heavy Russian accent, "Most reliable system in the world!" It's a crude, terrible design in almost every way, unless you focus on ease of manufacture. Then the true polish of the turd emerges from the layers of brine and waste. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:16:53 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I grew up sucking down the propaganda like cool-aid, where I read Time articles declaring that US soldiers in Vietnam preferred AK's over their lousy M16's made from plastic, watched Red Dawn, and was in love with black gloss paint and red laminate wood from the AKM. I was thoroughly convinced that the AKM was the ultimate assault rifle on plant earth, and I had to have one. I also noticed that most professional soldiers in that era preferred to carry an XM177E2, so I was a bit torn, and had to have one of them too. In my first unit, we really ran the AK's for fam fire, but when I really started shooting them, they broke, and yes, ROMAK AKM's (real ones, select-fire, acquired through some back channels and on 1st SFG's books) had roll pins holding the pistons onto the bolt carrier, and those are the roll pins that worked out and started trashing the gas tubes. When running high volume courses, I watch Arsenals go down all the time, as soon as we start warming the guns up. FTFire, FTFeed. The Bulgarians have not exempted themselves from Slav/Eastern European "QC". Like I said, the only variants that work well across the board are the Finnish guns, which the Israeli's copied and used as the basis for the Galil, which is another turd in terms of weight/balance, especially for a little male in Israel. The Israeli's have dumped their Galil's off on a bunch of other countries, and don't use them anymore, unless some reserve units have them around. It's a boat anchor, just like the Valmet. http://www.suomenasehistoriallinenseura.fi/uploads/images/huutokaupat/kevat2011/RK62.jpg http://armascr.com/cms/images/stories/Articulos/galil/Galil_901.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why is it that when I go to a website dedicated primarily to Stoner guns most people are fanboys for AR15s and think AKs are junk, but when I go to an AK website they think Stoner guns are flimsy pieces of crap and think that AKs will survive for 1000 years without maintenance? I've got a lot to think about from this thread. How can two groups of people come to two opposite conclusions? I'm thinking that most people have a conclusion already decided, and congregate where their opinion will be reinforced. It's a new theory of human behavior that needs to be studied, I can't find anything about it on Google. Maybe it's also relevant to politics and religion as well? I'm going to email my militia's colonels and talk to all 87 of them about this. Maybe AKs and ARs are both crap and we need a new platform for us patriot liberty defenders. I'll go buy a Mini 14 for a dry-fire torture test in my backyard this weekend. I grew up sucking down the propaganda like cool-aid, where I read Time articles declaring that US soldiers in Vietnam preferred AK's over their lousy M16's made from plastic, watched Red Dawn, and was in love with black gloss paint and red laminate wood from the AKM. I was thoroughly convinced that the AKM was the ultimate assault rifle on plant earth, and I had to have one. I also noticed that most professional soldiers in that era preferred to carry an XM177E2, so I was a bit torn, and had to have one of them too. In my first unit, we really ran the AK's for fam fire, but when I really started shooting them, they broke, and yes, ROMAK AKM's (real ones, select-fire, acquired through some back channels and on 1st SFG's books) had roll pins holding the pistons onto the bolt carrier, and those are the roll pins that worked out and started trashing the gas tubes. When running high volume courses, I watch Arsenals go down all the time, as soon as we start warming the guns up. FTFire, FTFeed. The Bulgarians have not exempted themselves from Slav/Eastern European "QC". Like I said, the only variants that work well across the board are the Finnish guns, which the Israeli's copied and used as the basis for the Galil, which is another turd in terms of weight/balance, especially for a little male in Israel. The Israeli's have dumped their Galil's off on a bunch of other countries, and don't use them anymore, unless some reserve units have them around. It's a boat anchor, just like the Valmet. http://www.suomenasehistoriallinenseura.fi/uploads/images/huutokaupat/kevat2011/RK62.jpg http://armascr.com/cms/images/stories/Articulos/galil/Galil_901.jpg Whoever "back channeled" those rifles to your unit as legit AKs needs their ass kicked. ROMAK is a civi. rifle designation...Cugir arsenal makes Romy AKs. You do know that Norinco AKs are maintained as issue weapons with an NSN # ?? Also you won't find any roll pins anywhere on them... |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:24:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Never seen any factory comm-bloc AK with a roll pin holding the gas piston. American converted 922r century AK ?? Yep, those have roll pins and are sometimes welded. Seems like the AR has gone thru constant revision to make it more like the AK... 1. Convert it to gas piston for more reliability. Which decreased reliability in many examples. To my knowledge HK is the only company who has a piston gun that consistently can go high round counts with minimal parts breakage. 2. 5.56 not reliably expanding at range so first they keep increasing the bullet weight, 62 gr. then 77gr. OTM. Then said "fuck it" and went 6.8 SPC. The M16 was designed to fire 55 gr. projectiles through a 1:14 twist. Which performed very well. Shortening the barrel changed that. Obviously changes had to be made to the projectile. 3. Alum. mags not durable enough so first we redesign the followers to make it stop malf.'ing, then go to SS for material upgrade over alum., now polymer. USGI mags are underrated. Poly magazines are better. Just like with AKs. Hmmmm....... |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:26:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So if they were US, they would have been harder to fight. OMG BECKY WHO KNEW Guess which rifle our military uses? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Had the Iraqis been armed with top-tier AFVs, offensive and defensive counter air, and been trained comparably to US forces, I think the first Gulf War may have turned out significantly more costly to the US than it did. They fought a retreating battle with much surrender, including if I remember correctly from my reading a large infantry element saying "FUCK THIS I QUIT" and sitting down with their arms crossed and underwear on sticks when an Apache showed up. They needed far more training, more willpower, more MANPADS, and current AFVs instead of a stock of BMP-1s and T-55s. So if they were US, they would have been harder to fight. OMG BECKY WHO KNEW Guess which rifle our military uses? BTR-80s, BMP-2s, and T-80s, with comparably trained crews, would have been tough. Infantrymen that had balls and half a brain are tough no matter their issued armament. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:30:10 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:But the Hungarians, Bulgarians, and factory Yugo's I could see going the distance. And you would be wrong. Those are all equally bad right out of the crate. Hungarian ones are especially rough.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:30:12 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BTR-80s, BMP-2s, and T-80s, with comparably trained crews, would have been tough. Infantrymen that had balls and half a brain are tough no matter their issued armament. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Had the Iraqis been armed with top-tier AFVs, offensive and defensive counter air, and been trained comparably to US forces, I think the first Gulf War may have turned out significantly more costly to the US than it did. They fought a retreating battle with much surrender, including if I remember correctly from my reading a large infantry element saying "FUCK THIS I QUIT" and sitting down with their arms crossed and underwear on sticks when an Apache showed up. They needed far more training, more willpower, more MANPADS, and current AFVs instead of a stock of BMP-1s and T-55s. So if they were US, they would have been harder to fight. OMG BECKY WHO KNEW Guess which rifle our military uses? BTR-80s, BMP-2s, and T-80s, with comparably trained crews, would have been tough. Infantrymen that had balls and half a brain are tough no matter their issued armament. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLLLLLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:32:25 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rock River doesn't make AR's, they make look-alikes. None of the parts are the same, down to the detents, which I learned the hard way in Arctic conditions. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:36:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread is proof that opinions can be wrong. FACT.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:38:31 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1. Convert it to gas piston for more reliability.  |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:41:14 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wasn't it a range somewhere in Ohio? Something about and AR not being able to make it through 3 mags in the brutal winter weather. Quote HistoryQuoted: Originally Posted By shade_1313: If I might ask, just what sort of environment are you shooting all these flawless AKs, and all these ARs that won't shoot a routine range session without a malfunction? Wasn't it a range somewhere in Ohio? Something about and AR not being able to make it through 3 mags in the brutal winter weather. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:44:50 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whoever "back channeled" those rifles to your unit as legit AKs needs their ass kicked. ROMAK is a civi. rifle designation...Cugir arsenal makes Romy AKs. You do know that Norinco AKs are maintained as issue weapons with an NSN # ?? Also you won't find any roll pins anywhere on them... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why is it that when I go to a website dedicated primarily to Stoner guns most people are fanboys for AR15s and think AKs are junk, but when I go to an AK website they think Stoner guns are flimsy pieces of crap and think that AKs will survive for 1000 years without maintenance? I've got a lot to think about from this thread. How can two groups of people come to two opposite conclusions? I'm thinking that most people have a conclusion already decided, and congregate where their opinion will be reinforced. It's a new theory of human behavior that needs to be studied, I can't find anything about it on Google. Maybe it's also relevant to politics and religion as well? I'm going to email my militia's colonels and talk to all 87 of them about this. Maybe AKs and ARs are both crap and we need a new platform for us patriot liberty defenders. I'll go buy a Mini 14 for a dry-fire torture test in my backyard this weekend. I grew up sucking down the propaganda like cool-aid, where I read Time articles declaring that US soldiers in Vietnam preferred AK's over their lousy M16's made from plastic, watched Red Dawn, and was in love with black gloss paint and red laminate wood from the AKM. I was thoroughly convinced that the AKM was the ultimate assault rifle on plant earth, and I had to have one. I also noticed that most professional soldiers in that era preferred to carry an XM177E2, so I was a bit torn, and had to have one of them too. In my first unit, we really ran the AK's for fam fire, but when I really started shooting them, they broke, and yes, ROMAK AKM's (real ones, select-fire, acquired through some back channels and on 1st SFG's books) had roll pins holding the pistons onto the bolt carrier, and those are the roll pins that worked out and started trashing the gas tubes. When running high volume courses, I watch Arsenals go down all the time, as soon as we start warming the guns up. FTFire, FTFeed. The Bulgarians have not exempted themselves from Slav/Eastern European "QC". Like I said, the only variants that work well across the board are the Finnish guns, which the Israeli's copied and used as the basis for the Galil, which is another turd in terms of weight/balance, especially for a little male in Israel. The Israeli's have dumped their Galil's off on a bunch of other countries, and don't use them anymore, unless some reserve units have them around. It's a boat anchor, just like the Valmet. http://www.suomenasehistoriallinenseura.fi/uploads/images/huutokaupat/kevat2011/RK62.jpg http://armascr.com/cms/images/stories/Articulos/galil/Galil_901.jpg Whoever "back channeled" those rifles to your unit as legit AKs needs their ass kicked. ROMAK is a civi. rifle designation...Cugir arsenal makes Romy AKs. You do know that Norinco AKs are maintained as issue weapons with an NSN # ?? Also you won't find any roll pins anywhere on them... This. Rack the bolt on a Romy and it's rough and drags in spots. Rack the bolt on a Saiga and it's slick as snot. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:48:09 PM EDT
[#47]
Ive built enough AR's that I cant remember exactly how many are sitting downstairs right now. However, I only have 1 AK47 (sold my AK74 last month to consolidate calibers) but as of 30 minutes ago Ive got 3 more on the way and a whole lot more in the hole for after Xmas. I love them both.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:49:10 PM EDT
[#48]
LOL I took that pic
The rifle was from one of my Ranger students, Ranger students can break a anvil with a head of cabbage Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What I am disputing is his 5 round string claim. 5.56 AR heats up faster than as 7.62 AK. During a 5 round stringfrom cold bore, the AK will not widen out 2-3". It starts there. As does an issue M4 with M855. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:56:31 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
1. Convert it to gas piston for more reliability.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFGfWrJR5Ck
I didn't come up with the idea, just noticed it was being done. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 12:03:25 AM EDT
[#50]
Why is the PKM, which is based on the AK, so highly regarded?
I've read some of our BTDT types here refer to it as "the best GPMG in the world". 
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