Care to share your dealer experience?  I've *never* bought a new car before....always bought used, even if it was only a year or two old.  Most purchases have been private party as well.  However, apparently 4runners hold their value well enough a few year old model with 30 or 40k miles is within 5 grand or so what I think I can get a brand new one for.

Anyway, I'm not looking at the limited model (too much $$$ for me)...I was thinking about trying to get a deal on a 2014 since the 2015s are now in stock.  Truecar.com says barely coming off msrp (less than 3%) is a good deal.  Doesn't sound that good to me.

Also, I am considering trading a couple cars in on it, if they'll meet or beat KBB trade in value.  Again, I have no experience dealing wit trades.  One of the cars (Corvette)  I could certainly get more money from selling outright, but it's winter and if I can snag a particularly good deal on a closeout 2014, it might bring the delta down enough I wouldn't care.

Just looking for advice on "handling of a dealer", negotiating, and that sort of thing.  I know what the KBB states the value of my trades are, I have a general idea of what I want to pay for the car.

**update**

So, I've visited a couple dealers now.  I'm down to two different 4runners, each at a different dealer.  Based on Edmunds and Truecar, I feel the price I've been given is fair.  They offered about what I expected for one of my trades (daily driver), and I should be selling my play car tomorrow.  

There are a few things I plan to push back on.  1) documentation/title and "admin" fees.  They don't have to do shit other than hand over the title, because I'm buying in a neighboring state, so they have nothing to do with titling the car.  These fees are around $500 on top of "car price".  2) I am going to try for $500 more on my trade , and/or ask them to throw in the "clear bra" paint protection for bumper and hood.  The trade is KBB valued at $11500 private party, trade value $8500-9000, they offered $8500.

In summary, I agree to price they've offered on the car (about $500 over invoice), I want the "admin" fees waived or extremely reduced, and I want the bumper and hood protection thrown in free (~$800 MSRP, probably costs them less than 1/4 that to install it).

Thoughts?

bump

I've never bought a new car either so in for potential info

as you already alluded to, better to sell the "trades" private party

For what its worth I hear the local dealership doesn't come down very much but my experience is from a sample size of one.

1. Pick out car you want, options you want, color you want.

2. Go to edmunds or other site that has invoice pricing on it. Price out vehicle.

3. Invoice price - (MSRP * .03) is basically what you're looking for...or better.

4. Email several dealers around your area (as big as you want to go) with vehicle/options you want. Tell them you want their best out the door price.

5. Get prices, email back everyone but the one with the best price to see if they can beat the best price. Rinse, repeat.

6. Never mention you have a trade in. The trade-in is a separate transaction.

yep email the dealers. ask them to email a copy of price, line by line with taxes fees , and grand total out the door.  Beats negotiating for several hours in person at dealership.

truecar shows decent prices for vehicles. just make sure its not demo vehicles.

Toyota came off 8k on a 45k Toyota Tundra for me back the last of august.  Just be patient.  I don't see how a forerunner would be much difference.
I made initial contact and then I just made them come to me.

honda civic

Good info, thanks.  I tried getting info/pricing on each dealers website but they of course want to call you and get you to come in before you'll get a number.  I imagine that gives them the upper hand.

Yup.  Some will also respond saying something like "we will match the best price you get from another dealer, plus give you ______ (ie- extended warrentee; service agreement, etc.).

Next time I shop for a vehicle, I am going to expressly write " I will not buy from a dealer that does not give me a price in writing."

yea dont fall for their games. Tell them you dont have time to be traveling around to dealerships, just email me the price. just make sure you know exactly which car you want , including trim and accessories.

Have fun, buying a car from a dealer is almost always a horrible experience.
I hate all the games.

when you finally agree to price and go in , if they make you wait several hours to wait for the finance guy,  I suspect its some tactic to deplete you of energy.  Be on top of your math and reading game when you meet the finance guy, the forms they give you are loaded with numbers and fine print to try to confuse people. take your time and read line by line and ask if you dont understand. Make sure the final price is what it is and they dont try to tack on anything extra. if you see some extra figure, ask what it is, if they cant explain it or show something written proof, ask the manager and show them what you agreed to initially.

Excellent advice.  I've used this method to buy 2 new cars, and got decent deals on both.  I'll add 2 more steps:

7. If a dealer refuses to give a price, or just gives MSRP, politely inform them that no email price = no possibility of a sale.
8. Make it a requirement that they have you in-and-out in <2hrs.  Select a specific stock number (or numbers), prearrange financing, etc.  I told them "I'm leaving in 2 hours, it's your choice whether I leave with a car or not."

I have only bought 3 new cars.

1993 Dodge Cummins diesel - Dodge bought it back 1 year later I won my 'Lemon Law' arbitration - $23K dealer in person

1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4 - Fleet ordered via credit union - $24K ( kinda like todays online - no dickering way )

2007 GMC Yukon - in person cash deal at dealership using my pops family GM discount - $27K I think

Have never done the online thing ... Probably OK with cars the next 12-15 years so who knows what my next purchase will be like ?

Very unlikely I ever buy a brand new 0 miles car / truck again.

Best of luck in your purchase and keep us updated

All you really have to do is say "no" more than they do.

Just had a GREAT experience at Chino Hills Ford...Best rebates and customer service by far, with no run arounds...leaving the dealer now..Good Luck!

Talk with Chris..909 717 0892..

Get the VIN number. Although this is a Chevy site it'll still decode the Toyota VIN. Scroll down and you'll see the MSRP and invoice prices.
http://chevroletforum.com/forum/vindecoder.php?vin=1NXBR32E76Z720983

Prepare your anus OP.

good advice already but if you want to get that final $1000 off... here is my last trick I use when buying a new car. Once all the haggling is done and the guy gets to what he says is his very best price or he has to let you walk. Just take $1,000 off that price and say that is your bottom dollar. Then thank him for his time and leave. He will either come get you as you start walking out to your car or call you once you leave the lot and figure out a way to get an extra $1000 off. It has worked for me 3 times in a row now. Drives my wife crazy to go thru all that ordeal every time we get a new car but I've never had luck negotiating over phone or the net. It always ends up being in person where he sees me with checkbook in hand ready to write check for down payment that gets them to seriously negotiate. Good luck!

DON'T TELL THE SALESMAN YOU HAVE A TRADE IN OR DOWNPAYMENT. .......

Make it appear you will finance 100% of the agreed price.
They may lower the asking price thinking the few thousand off may be the difference between your bank saying yes or no.

Truck is listed at $20,000, bank loan value is $17,000, so dealer knows that $3,000 is going to decide the sale. And a sale is better than no sale.

Then at the end slap the cash on the table.


I bought my last car in May. I fought with the dealer for two days before I bought it.
I even showed them on my phone that I found one in Houston for $2,000 less and a one way flight would cost me $180.

I wrote a check for what I would pay and sat it on his desk. He rejected the offer so I got in my truck to drive off and the sales manager came running after me.

He said come back in let's talk. So I went in and told him now I'll pay $200 less than my first offer cause he made me look like an ass.

He showed me the ticket from the auction, they lost $200 on the car by taking the offer.
I got it $4200 or 20% under asking price, and $5800 under loan value.

Go with a new 4Runner. Trail editions are harder to find but are even better on resale. I went SR5 with NAV package. IF YOU ARE BUYING, trading in May not be a bad idea, you get a tax break in OHIO anyways. $35,000 - $10,000trade in you only pay tax on $25,000.

4runner is one of the last real truck based SUV's it is a dinosaur. Heavy, bad mpg ,18 mpg and a very old 5 spd auto trans.

That being said it is  one of the most reliable trucks made. Everything just works. Toyota sacrificed being a technology leader with this SUV. TO BUILD A TANK,  A JUGGERNAUGHT OF RELIABILITY.

Toyota normally won't offer a lot of money off on the 4Runner. They are all made in Japan and have to be shipped over. This adds to cost and cuts profit margins. Very often you will have to look far and wide to find the one you want.

See the site below it has all the info you will need.



http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/

How much should I expect them to come off the price of a 2014 for the "it's last year's model" effect compared to a 2015?  I found a 14 "Trail" that has everything I want at a dealer real close to my house.

I figure the 14 is going to lose more value when I drive it off the lot compared to a 15 (since at that point itd be a 1 year old used car) so I figure they have to work a little due to that fact alone.

They have it priced at $36.5K "msrp".  I was hoping to get it closer to $30k.  Maybe 31-32.

My guess 34.5.

ALL of your negotiating 'leverage'  is inverted when you bring a 'trade-in'.

Just making a wild stab in the dark ... I would say you are WAY HIGH at 31-32. You need to practice / hone your skills at another dealership before this guy who has the rig you want.

Its a dance ... and thousands of your dollars are at stake. You have to look at it as a strictly business decision vs an emotional one.

Playing the email game gives you a 'ballpark' idea of their true out the door price ... inperson haggling gets them even lower.

Like a BOSS

 

Say you get them to agreeable price without mentioning trade.  If I agree to said price, the only way they can "penetrate" me would be on the trade side, and only if I'd agree to said trade offer.  I assume what you're saying is they'll try to lowball the trade.

Remember it is not a Chevy truck. Toyota will not sell 4Runners at $6500 off.

You can't buy a two year old 4Runner with 20,000 for 30k.

You think so - not disputing, just curious?

Because here's what Edmunds has with similarly configured (I'm probably missing an option or two since they MSRP comes in low)

If you are a USAA member, or Costco---you can use their car buying services as well to help negeotiate

I am only going off of the 2-3 vehicles I purchased brand new ( 1 of them was the Jeep - which I really didn't see the dealer MSRP tag until it was fleet delivered )

From my recollection ( and I am a cheap frugal bastard ) I recall the dealer MSRP price being some ultra high bull shit ( smoke and mirrors ) number they had doctored up on the window invoice displayed for God and everyone to see on the car itself. In my car buying experiences ... any dumbass who did not deduct a MINIMUM of 15% off the MSRP was getting ass raped. 10% on a $25K car is $2500 ... do the math

Maybe times have changed with the MSRP displayed price. 2007 was the last new car I bought. A 2007 GMC Yukon. I paid $27K for it and it had an MSRP of nearly $40K  

A lot of good advice above. I've bought multiple new cars, and here's few things I would add:

The advice to not mention trade or down payment is important. I would check with your
local credit union about financing if you need to finance. Ideally, have the out-the-door
price from them before you ever mention how you're paying, and avoid taking a test
drive at a dealer you're going to buy from. They will ask for your driver's license
"for insurance purposes" but they're running a credit check on you -- the last test drive
I made, my phone went off with a credit check alert 2 minutes into the test drive.
Good credit means they'll try to charge you more.

Hopefully you follow the email all the dealers advice and get a hard out the door price,
if you don't, I guarantee you there will be some totally BS charges on the dealer's
invoice, where I'm at, two things that are always on them are what amounts to a
$300-$1000 wax job (in my area it's usually called zaktek.) There's also usually a
doc prep fee that's insane (like $300 as well.)

Single most important thing I can tell you is walk out the door and leave if they're even
$1 off the out the door price. Also, don't let them waste your time, they'll burn 4 or more
hours prepping paperwork and jacking the price around if you let them. If you agree to
the deal at the price, say fine and if they can't have you out the door in 15 minutes
tell them you'll be back in 4 hours.

The internet and fleet sales though a different organization (credit union or whatever)
are your friends. The dealer is 100% out to screw you.

They can't pull your credit report without your social.

Could be that's a GM and this is a Toyota, no idea there.

When shopping for a new vehicle for the business I had an option to buy any 1-2yr old vehicle at a very low price, compared to retail, as a sister company to the one j work for has a dealers license & I can shop at car auctions that are dealer only. These are wholesale auctions for dealers & dealers only.

I looked through months of end sales reports looking at retail new vs wholesale vs retail used prices.

What I came away with after months of research was the best option, from a retail value, as is important from a business perspective, including maintanance & overall cost of operation, was to buy a Toyota. A New Toyota. After 5 yrs of ownership the resale value will be astoundingly better than any other make.

Take it as you may. Some may disagree with me, but I did the research &crunched the numbers. Based on what we purchased we made the best investment at the time that was available. Our ownership & businesses have now purchased 3 new Toyotas.

That only works if the VIN fully decodes the cars options and trim levels.

Were you buying Toyota cars .... make model? Or were you buying Toyota trucks - make model?

Went and looked at/drove one this afternoon....loved it.  Definitely going to get one, just not sure if right now or not.  I didn't get the impression they were going to move much on the price, even for a 14 model.  The difference between MSRP and invoice on the 4runner is about $3-3.5k for most of the models I am looking at, so $31-32k may be unrealistic as that's under invoice.  Doesnt mean I won't try though.  

Here's my advice make your best offer then tell the salesman to comeback with a signed deal from the manager.
never offer/give a deposit

Ok, another question - is the invoice price (whether an estimate from Edmunds or what the dealer claims the invoice to be) actually the price the dealer pays, or close to it?

I.E. if I know invoice is $33.5K, I am reasonably certain that's what the dealer has in it, and they obviously need to make money still so I shouldn't bother anything below invoice?

So far, two highlanders & one Toyota Truck.

One highlander was a basic model w/ FWD. The other Highlander was well equipped with Leather, Moonroof, Back-up camera, etc & in 4wd. The truck was 4wd also.

One was purchased in La Crosse WI, 1 in Eau Claire, WI, the last one in White Bear, MN.

A little back ground history is I have been attending Dealer auctions in three states for about 20yrs. Been in or around the car business for that long as well. In-fact, the sales management team at the MN dealer were individuals I had worked with at a Ford Dealership about 15yrs prior.

When I first started looking we looked at a number of vehicle types including mid & Full-size cars. Most all that I compared in the base domestic market proved to be about the same, catgoricaly, regardless of product lines. There were a few that showed some anomalies of increases & decreases in specific models over a short period, but the general analysis showed the best used markets belonging to Toyota.

The interesting fact is that Toyotas simply do not go trough the auctions. They are sold privately or dealers retain them upon trade in. "Money in the Bank", so to speak. Toyota dealers in general do not take off-lease or trade vehicles to auction, at least around me, because they don't need to. Their reputation for durability means that people generally will spend a premium to know their vehicle will be a wise monetary decision.

In a number of months I see only handfuls of Toyotas go through vs thousands & thousands of other makes & models. When they do, they fetch a premium.

1-2yr old Chevy & Fords, as an example, fetch approx. 1/2 of new retail. 4-5 yr old Toyotas fetch 70-80% of new retail.... Wholesale. That's what my research discovered.

OP, we considered the 4-runner as well. It was an "Option" but the price & substance difference didn't justify the price increase. Me personally, at this time in the model year, I would get the 2015.

You hit the nail on the he'd. Be firm, and more importantly, be willing to just walk out the door. They REALLY hate it when they lose a sale that way and will do anything to make a deal once they know you are serious about buying and just as serious about walking away from a deal you don't like.

One of the reasons Toyota's hold their value so well is they dont do those crazy $15,000 off MSRP deals all the time.  You are lucky to get a $500 incentive on most models.

That being said.

Dealer will typically offer you less than trade value on blue book because they go off of black book or auction rates unless it is a very in demand vehicle (jeep rubicon or toyota tacoma for instance)

Go in with as much info as you can, bring your laptop/tablet/phone or what not so you can look up stuff on the fly (or surf Arf while they play the stupid 4 square or waiting game) and have patience.  

If you dont get it in writing, you dont get it. If it isnt on the due bill, you wont get it.  

Dont let them hold your vehicle hostage.  Sometimes they will play that game.  

Be aware of other offers even if they are in different parts of the country and what it would cost you to fly/fuel to get it.  Sometimes you can save big bucks.  

The sales guy is not your friend no matter how friendly and chummy he is.  You are just another number on the sales board.

Dont be afraid to walk out the door, to hold your ground and say no.  There are more vehicles out there.  They dont have the only xxx model in the country.

I walked out of a dealership on a deal because the dealer played dick games on my trade, the next day the manager called and said they would take my offer (which was very reasonable, but they low balled the fuck out of my trade by almost $3000 originally).  I agreed but only if they delivered the car to me on a roll back at my place of business 100 miles away before I got off work that day.  They did.

The invoice price is NOT their price, the manufacturer always has dealer hold backs and other promotions to help the dealer.
They all know the dealer invoice is now public so they use other means to hide the actual dealer cost.

Btw, get a steel push bar for the front end. There have been a lot of incidents of protester closing roads. This might change their mind!

So the games just continue through other means, got it.

Yup, just act bored with it, act as if it's just a vehicle you need. It's not some awesome shiny new vehicle you are drooling over.

This is what we did for two of our last three cars. We used a FAX instead of email. Sent it to five dealers. Asked for their best price with ALL charges shown. You don't want to accept a bid, show up for delivery and have them  start trying to add on charges they left out.

It may help if you give leeway on colors or trim packages that you don't care abou. If you say you will take red, blue, or white but not black or green they will know you are not in love with the vehicle. In fact, don't show up in person until it is time to pay and drive off. No time for them to size you up and figure out what you really want. We specified we didn't want a tow package on one vehicle, and they threw a vehicle in with that at almost no extra charge.

After we did this on two vehicles and got the same dealer for the deal cloth times, we just went to them the third time and said give us your best price, and they didn't haggle.

I love how car dealerships are not supposed to make money. Every other form of retail is allowed to make money, just not car dealerships.

They make plenty of money, the Mini dealer I got mine from has nicer floors in their garage than most people have in their kitchens!
Why should I pay them a couple grand extra just to have the privilege of buying a car?
I  literally reduced the price of my latest car by 5k off their initial offer.
Many people don't bargain and the dealers make plenty off of them.