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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:15:19 PM EDT
[#1]
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As a Washingtonian, and a NRA member, I don't blame the NRA. Would have been nice to see ads, but I don't think it would have saved us, not by a long shot. This is the fault of moronic voters, the lairs behind I-594, and the major news networks in this state not giving a shit about the truth or what the law actually says. I'm no longer optimistic about the outcome, that said don't forget to vote, though! |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:15:57 PM EDT
[#2]
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If Gottlieb wants background checks then why is he fighting 594? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If Alan Gottlieb had his way, we'd have a nationwide universal background check supported by Chuckie Schumer. Which would be great for WA since that was still better than I-594. Kind of shitty for the rest of us though. If Gottlieb wants background checks then why is he fighting 594? http://www.guns.com/2014/05/01/gottlieb-gun-rights-lobby-needs-to-lead-not-follow-on-background-checks-video/ My guess would be that he thinks sticking everybody else with background checks will save states like WA from bills like I-594. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:16:03 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd have an eagle if it weren't for all that junk mail...  |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:16:59 PM EDT
[#4]
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We don't have a good state-level org here and, even as conservative and pro-gun as AL is, we never would have gotten rid of the law prohibiting SBRs and SBSs here if the NRA had not gotten directly involved. Same with some other pro gun measures we have passed in recent years... but, to be fair, I think the few anti-gun ones were DOA here with or without them (we were still glad to have their help). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What have your local groups had repealed? Well, we've gotten SBR's and Suppressors back in the last 3 years without any help from those useless fucks. NRA didn't have to do anything for us to get them. It just took electing Republican Attorney Generals in the state who legalized them all through legal opinions. Well at least that is consistent with the NRA's attitude of doing nothing.
We don't have a good state-level org here and, even as conservative and pro-gun as AL is, we never would have gotten rid of the law prohibiting SBRs and SBSs here if the NRA had not gotten directly involved. Same with some other pro gun measures we have passed in recent years... but, to be fair, I think the few anti-gun ones were DOA here with or without them (we were still glad to have their help). Our law enforcement organizations (WACOPS specifically which represents a majority of police guilds in the state) were more active and supportive than the NRA in helping us on getting SBR's and Suppressors back. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:17:15 PM EDT
[#5]
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As a Washingtonian, and a NRA member, I don't blame the NRA. Would have been nice to see ads, but I don't think it would have saved us, not by a long shot. This is the fault of moronic voters, the lairs behind I-594, and the major news networks in this state not giving a shit about the truth or what the law actually says. Actually sums up my thoughts as well, on the topic at hand. With our recent school shooting, it would of undone most of anything the NRA could of done to defeat this garbage. I'll continue to tell as many people as I can, of how horrible 594 is but my gaze is being shifted some to the courts. (Lifetime NRA member as well but no Eagle) |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:17:44 PM EDT
[#6]
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It's not a bill. Those were all defeated in the legislature. It's a ballot referendum to the people. Which is scarier. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maybe if Washington didn't have a far left governor and the state legislature in the state house wasn't controlled by democrats you wouldn't have to worry about anti-gun bills. It's not a bill. Those were all defeated in the legislature. It's a ballot referendum to the people. Which is scarier. So it's a state level vote, that somehow the NATIONAL Rifle Association is supposed to save you from with money from their magical money pot. Or take from another state, whichever. Makes perfect sense. Stop blaming others on the national scale for your state level failures. It isn't the NRA's fault we haven't passed open carry here in Texas. That's a state level issue, and one that if we received $500,000 in support of the last thing I'd be doing is whining about how they hung us out to dry. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:17:51 PM EDT
[#7]
I'm an NRA lifetime member - how do I get my eagle?
Also I594 as it's described in the voters pamphlet is VERY misleading and the rebuttal is poor in my opinion. WA is fucked here because it looks like little to no effort was put forth to stop 594. NRA could have made the difference with one ad explaining how crazy the whole "transfer" thing is going to be...
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:18:14 PM EDT
[#8]
Yeah, no.
Washington and its denizens is hanging Washington out to dry.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:19:21 PM EDT
[#9]
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Our law enforcement organizations (WACOPS specifically which represents a majority of police guilds in the state) were more active and supportive than the NRA in helping us on getting SBR's and Suppressors back. And our LEO groups had the measure all but dead in committee until the NRA stepped in to help get it out and passed. Very different experiences, at the very least. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:20:11 PM EDT
[#10]
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I'm an NRA lifetime member - how do I get my eagle? Send a picture of your Life membership card or the address label of your NRA magazine showing life membership to a site staff member, I think Striker but not positive. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:20:51 PM EDT
[#11]
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It's true, icons validate my otherwise empty and meaningless existence.  Whatever you want to tell yourself.
Look, no one is saying you have to have an eagle to comment about things, but the general trend in these sort of anti-NRA threads are that the ones complaining the most vocally about how the NRA should be doing things tend to be the guys who don't support the organization they're expecting so much from with even so much as an annual membership, much less Life, ILA donations, volunteer work, etc..... You shouldn't get your feels hurt by that kind of observation unless you're doing things like starting undeserved NRA bashing threads. Easy enough? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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<-----NRA Life Member - No Eagle <-----Veteran - No Tank Not everyone needs shiny logos to feel good about themselves. It's true, icons validate my otherwise empty and meaningless existence. Whatever you want to tell yourself.
Look, no one is saying you have to have an eagle to comment about things, but the general trend in these sort of anti-NRA threads are that the ones complaining the most vocally about how the NRA should be doing things tend to be the guys who don't support the organization they're expecting so much from with even so much as an annual membership, much less Life, ILA donations, volunteer work, etc..... You shouldn't get your feels hurt by that kind of observation unless you're doing things like starting undeserved NRA bashing threads. Easy enough? Now, where is my hurt feelings report? <rummage rummage> |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:22:29 PM EDT
[#12]
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Our law enforcement organizations (WACOPS specifically which represents a majority of police guilds in the state) were more active and supportive than the NRA in helping us on getting SBR's and Suppressors back. If enough state level organization were mobilized to effectively get that bill passed, then why would you need the NRA to spend more money? |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:22:30 PM EDT
[#13]
How much is the NRA spending in the 2014 election cycle for democrat politicians?
From what I was able to find, not much. Independent Expenditures: $30,318,464 For Democrats: $12,066 Against Democrats: $16,774,319 For Republicans: $12,824,970 Against Republicans: $35,072 Electioneering Communications: $0 Electioneering Communications Communication Costs: $274,067 |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:22:53 PM EDT
[#14]
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Now, where is my hurt feelings report? <rummage rummage> I think xb40shooter has some left over from the cop thread he was trying to pass them out in.... 
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:25:14 PM EDT
[#15]
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If enough state level organization were mobilized to effectively get that bill passed, then why would you need the NRA to spend more money? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Our law enforcement organizations (WACOPS specifically which represents a majority of police guilds in the state) were more active and supportive than the NRA in helping us on getting SBR's and Suppressors back. If enough state level organization were mobilized to effectively get that bill passed, then why would you need the NRA to spend more money? Lol are you serious? You never know if this shit is going to pass until it does. Until that point you need all the help you can get. Our most recent one (SBR's) wouldn't have made it out of committee if the speaker for the state house (ironically, a democrat) hadn't pulled brian blakes(ironically, a democrat) bill to the floor at the last minute, and then it passed with like 95-3 in the house and 47-0 in the senate. , |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:25:59 PM EDT
[#16]
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If enough state level organization were mobilized to effectively get that bill passed, then why would you need the NRA to spend more money? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Our law enforcement organizations (WACOPS specifically which represents a majority of police guilds in the state) were more active and supportive than the NRA in helping us on getting SBR's and Suppressors back. If enough state level organization were mobilized to effectively get that bill passed, then why would you need the NRA to spend more money? Difference between that situation and this is 594 isn't a bill. It is up to vote for the majority and the majority get a chance to trample on our rights. A lot easier to bomb politicians with communication vs raiding the television sets on the liberal stations. That being stated, not advocating that the NRA should of "done more". As is, our states voting guide is screwed up and has a few out right lies from the Attorney Generals office, how the hell can anyone combat that? |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:26:55 PM EDT
[#17]
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I think xb40shooter has some left over from the cop thread he was trying to pass them out in.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Now, where is my hurt feelings report? <rummage rummage> I think xb40shooter has some left over from the cop thread he was trying to pass them out in.... 
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:27:49 PM EDT
[#18]
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Lol are you serious? You never know if this shit is going to pass until it does. Until that point you need all the help you can get. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Our law enforcement organizations (WACOPS specifically which represents a majority of police guilds in the state) were more active and supportive than the NRA in helping us on getting SBR's and Suppressors back. If enough state level organization were mobilized to effectively get that bill passed, then why would you need the NRA to spend more money? Lol are you serious? You never know if this shit is going to pass until it does. Until that point you need all the help you can get. Actually there are very good barometers of how a particular bill is going to fair in a legislature, and the NRA can see who is mobilized. Do you have any clue how lobbying and political organizations work, other than Monday morning quarterbacking? |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:28:41 PM EDT
[#19]
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Difference between that situation and this is 594 isn't a bill. It is up to vote for the majority and the majority get a chance to trample on our rights. A lot easier to bomb politicians with communication vs raiding the television sets on the liberal stations. That being stated, not advocating that the NRA should of "done more". As is, our states voting guide is screwed up and has a few out right lies from the Attorney Generals office, how the hell can anyone combat that? And the reason they chose a ballot initiative instead of legislative action is likely at least partially due to the fact that the NRA spent more money in Washington state than any other state in 2012 to help pro gun politicians get elected. Hung out to dry, indeed. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:30:18 PM EDT
[#20]
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Actually there are very good barometers of how a particular bill is going to fair in a legislature, and the NRA can see who is mobilized. Do you have any clue how lobbying and political organizations work, other than Monday morning quarterbacking? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Our law enforcement organizations (WACOPS specifically which represents a majority of police guilds in the state) were more active and supportive than the NRA in helping us on getting SBR's and Suppressors back. If enough state level organization were mobilized to effectively get that bill passed, then why would you need the NRA to spend more money? Lol are you serious? You never know if this shit is going to pass until it does. Until that point you need all the help you can get. Actually there are very good barometers of how a particular bill is going to fair in a legislature, and the NRA can see who is mobilized. Do you have any clue how lobbying and political organizations work, other than Monday morning quarterbacking? I think you give them too much credit. It cost's no money to endorse a measure so why wouldn't they have done that? Maybe they thought it was too "deep blue moontard" to pass. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:30:46 PM EDT
[#21]
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How much is the NRA spending in the 2014 election cycle for democrat politicians? From what I was able to find, not much. Independent Expenditures: $30,318,464 For Democrats: $12,066 Against Democrats: $16,774,319 For Republicans: $12,824,970 Against Republicans: $35,072 Electioneering Communications: $0 Electioneering Communications Communication Costs: $274,067 There are about 4 million NRA members and about 90 million gun owners. Where are the 85 million non NRA members that want to stop more gun control laws? Waiting for the few to save them? |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:31:00 PM EDT
[#22]
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And the reason they chose a ballot initiative instead of legislative action is likely at least partially due to the fact that the NRA spent more money in Washington state than any other state in 2012 to help pro gun politicians get elected. Hung out to dry, indeed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Difference between that situation and this is 594 isn't a bill. It is up to vote for the majority and the majority get a chance to trample on our rights. A lot easier to bomb politicians with communication vs raiding the television sets on the liberal stations. That being stated, not advocating that the NRA should of "done more". As is, our states voting guide is screwed up and has a few out right lies from the Attorney Generals office, how the hell can anyone combat that? And the reason they chose a ballot initiative instead of legislative action is likely at least partially due to the fact that the NRA spent more money in Washington state than any other state in 2012 to help pro gun politicians get elected. Hung out to dry, indeed. Lol that is a completely bogus statistic you cited, you're saying 68grand is the most the NRA spent in any state in 2012? I find that extremely hard to believe. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:31:18 PM EDT
[#23]
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Difference between that situation and this is 594 isn't a bill. It is up to vote for the majority and the majority get a chance to trample on our rights. A lot easier to bomb politicians with communication vs raiding the television sets on the liberal stations. That being stated, not advocating that the NRA should of "done more". As is, our states voting guide is screwed up and has a few out right lies from the Attorney Generals office, how the hell can anyone combat that? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Our law enforcement organizations (WACOPS specifically which represents a majority of police guilds in the state) were more active and supportive than the NRA in helping us on getting SBR's and Suppressors back. If enough state level organization were mobilized to effectively get that bill passed, then why would you need the NRA to spend more money? Difference between that situation and this is 594 isn't a bill. It is up to vote for the majority and the majority get a chance to trample on our rights. A lot easier to bomb politicians with communication vs raiding the television sets on the liberal stations. That being stated, not advocating that the NRA should of "done more". As is, our states voting guide is screwed up and has a few out right lies from the Attorney Generals office, how the hell can anyone combat that? I understand that, but Keekleberrys argument is confused and he is comparing two very different legislative processes to criticize the NRA inappropriately. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:31:19 PM EDT
[#24]
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And the reason they chose a ballot initiative instead of legislative action is likely at least partially due to the fact that the NRA spent more money in Washington state than any other state in 2012 to help pro gun politicians get elected. Hung out to dry, indeed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Difference between that situation and this is 594 isn't a bill. It is up to vote for the majority and the majority get a chance to trample on our rights. A lot easier to bomb politicians with communication vs raiding the television sets on the liberal stations. That being stated, not advocating that the NRA should of "done more". As is, our states voting guide is screwed up and has a few out right lies from the Attorney Generals office, how the hell can anyone combat that? And the reason they chose a ballot initiative instead of legislative action is likely at least partially due to the fact that the NRA spent more money in Washington state than any other state in 2012 to help pro gun politicians get elected. Hung out to dry, indeed. I wasn't agreeing with OP, on us being hung out to dry sir. My state is screwed because of the overwhelming flood of liberals, I do not deny this. I'm betting most of "hate" found in this thread is simply from individuals in disbelief that our own neighbors are selling us out and are in a state of denial/disbelief. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:32:37 PM EDT
[#25]
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I wasn't agreeing with OP, on us being hung out to dry sir. My state is screwed because of the overwhelming flood of liberals, I do not deny this. I'm betting most of "hate" found in this thread is simply from individuals in disbelief that our own neighbors are selling us out and are in a state of denial/disbelief. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Difference between that situation and this is 594 isn't a bill. It is up to vote for the majority and the majority get a chance to trample on our rights. A lot easier to bomb politicians with communication vs raiding the television sets on the liberal stations. That being stated, not advocating that the NRA should of "done more". As is, our states voting guide is screwed up and has a few out right lies from the Attorney Generals office, how the hell can anyone combat that? And the reason they chose a ballot initiative instead of legislative action is likely at least partially due to the fact that the NRA spent more money in Washington state than any other state in 2012 to help pro gun politicians get elected. Hung out to dry, indeed. I wasn't agreeing with OP, on us being hung out to dry sir. My state is screwed because of the overwhelming flood of liberals, I do not deny this. I'm betting most of "hate" found in this thread is simply from individuals in disbelief that our own neighbors are selling us out and are in a state of denial/disbelief. I know you weren't, just trying to drive the point through OPs thick skull.....
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:33:23 PM EDT
[#26]
NRA has to make calculations on where to put their money.
NRA would LOVE to put millions into every State in the Republic, but it needs more members. I'm proud to say that this year I took the plunge and am now an EPL Member and hope to be a full blown Life Member by year's end. My wife also became a member this year although she only has a year membership right now. We should be able to make my wife a Life Member by the end of next year. What I would like to do is become an NRA Benefactor, but right now there are a lot of financial priorities competing against that. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:39:23 PM EDT
[#27]
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Oh, I'm sorry I was under the false assumption that the NRA was in the business of advancing gun rights, and that there's an anti-gun measure on the ballot they might be interested in fighting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What is the likely hood of any GOP winning any political office in Washington State? They are picking their battles with the goal of a GOP controlled Senate. Oh, I'm sorry I was under the false assumption that the NRA was in the business of advancing gun rights, and that there's an anti-gun measure on the ballot they might be interested in fighting. I am in agreement with the above statement. I also see a lot of people talking shit about not having an NRA Icon. Not everyone cares enough to have an Icon on a message board. I'm prior military and have been an NRA member for eight years and I don't have Icons under my name. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:41:18 PM EDT
[#28]
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I understand that, but Keekleberrys argument is confused and he is comparing two very different legislative processes to criticize the NRA inappropriately. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Our law enforcement organizations (WACOPS specifically which represents a majority of police guilds in the state) were more active and supportive than the NRA in helping us on getting SBR's and Suppressors back. If enough state level organization were mobilized to effectively get that bill passed, then why would you need the NRA to spend more money? Difference between that situation and this is 594 isn't a bill. It is up to vote for the majority and the majority get a chance to trample on our rights. A lot easier to bomb politicians with communication vs raiding the television sets on the liberal stations. That being stated, not advocating that the NRA should of "done more". As is, our states voting guide is screwed up and has a few out right lies from the Attorney Generals office, how the hell can anyone combat that? I understand that, but Keekleberrys argument is confused and he is comparing two very different legislative processes to criticize the NRA inappropriately. They had no problem spending 3.2 million to defeat a trigger lock initiative in 1997 which was favored to pass by a large margin at the time as well... so they do get involved in state matters as well as initiative processes, just not so much for us this year. So something has clearly changed. Either they think Washington is a lost cause, which I would greatly disagree with considering recent 2A gains in the state, but will admit could be their reasoning for lack of support. Or There are fuck fuck games going on behind the scenes due to the on-going feud with Alan Gottlieb and the NRA. If thats the case it would be a pretty petty reason to withhold support, and yet that is the only thing that makes sense as to why they refuse to support or even verbally endorse the competing pro-gun initiative. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:42:19 PM EDT
[#29]
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There are about 4 million NRA members and about 90 million gun owners. Where are the 85 million non NRA members that want to stop more gun control laws? Waiting for the few to save them? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How much is the NRA spending in the 2014 election cycle for democrat politicians? From what I was able to find, not much. Independent Expenditures: $30,318,464 For Democrats: $12,066 Against Democrats: $16,774,319 For Republicans: $12,824,970 Against Republicans: $35,072 Electioneering Communications: $0 Electioneering Communications Communication Costs: $274,067 There are about 4 million NRA members and about 90 million gun owners. Where are the 85 million non NRA members that want to stop more gun control laws? Waiting for the few to save them? NRA added a million members after Sandy Hook. They now have 5 million members and with those new members and the many that became Life members when they ran the $300.00 membership deal they were able to get a short term influx of money for their war chest. I wonder how many of those 1 million new members came from Washington? |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:42:43 PM EDT
[#30]
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Lol that is a completely bogus statistic you cited, you're saying 68grand is the most the NRA spent in any state in 2012? I find that extremely hard to believe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Difference between that situation and this is 594 isn't a bill. It is up to vote for the majority and the majority get a chance to trample on our rights. A lot easier to bomb politicians with communication vs raiding the television sets on the liberal stations. That being stated, not advocating that the NRA should of "done more". As is, our states voting guide is screwed up and has a few out right lies from the Attorney Generals office, how the hell can anyone combat that? And the reason they chose a ballot initiative instead of legislative action is likely at least partially due to the fact that the NRA spent more money in Washington state than any other state in 2012 to help pro gun politicians get elected. Hung out to dry, indeed. Lol that is a completely bogus statistic you cited, you're saying 68grand is the most the NRA spent in any state in 2012? I find that extremely hard to believe. That is direct political contributions to candidates. Of course they spent more on ads, etc. source Washington
Twenty-five bills related to gun-control were introduced during Washington’s 2013 legislative session. All but two would have strengthened gun-control laws. So far, only HB 1612 has passed, creating a new registry of people convicted of firearm felonies. The other bills remained in committee at the end of the regular 2013 session and have not yet seen further action. The NRA contributed $68,300 to candidates in Washington in 2011–2012, with $40,500 going to incumbent Republican lawmakers. Another anti-gun-control group, Gun Owners Action League of Washington, contributed $106,175 to candidates and political parties in 2011–2012. The $174,475 contributed by these groups is the most given by both pro-gun-control and anti-gun-control groups in Washington since 2000. Losing supreme court candidate Richard Sanders, along with winning house candidates Cathy Dahlquist and Christopher Hurst, received the maximum amount allowed from both the NRA and the Gun Owners Action League of Washington.14 The two groups contributed to 105 candidates, with all but three receiving at least $900 from one of the groups. The NRA and the Gun Owners Action League of Washington contributed $10,800 to nine candidates who went on to sponsor gun bills in the 2013 legislative session. No pro-gun-control groups donated to any 2012 legislative campaigns in Washington. Ceasefire Action Committee was the only pro-gun-control group to make contributions since 2000, giving $11,025 in 2000 and $1,000 in 2006. They contributed more money to candidates in WA than any other state in 2012. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:48:34 PM EDT
[#31]
Just an observation. Two guys talking shit about the NRA from what I can tell from here are not members nor send them money. Small hijack. Never really gave a shit about it but how do I go about getting an eagle? NRA life member. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:48:36 PM EDT
[#32]
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Send a picture of your Life membership card or the address label of your NRA magazine showing life membership to a site staff member, I think Striker but not positive.[email protected] Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm an NRA lifetime member - how do I get my eagle? Send a picture of your Life membership card or the address label of your NRA magazine showing life membership to a site staff member, I think Striker but not positive.[email protected] FIFY |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:48:41 PM EDT
[#33]
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NRA added a million members after Sandy Hook. They now have 5 million members and with those new members and the many that became Life members when they ran the $300.00 membership deal they were able to get a short term influx of money for their war chest. I wonder how many of those 1 million new members came from Washington? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How much is the NRA spending in the 2014 election cycle for democrat politicians? From what I was able to find, not much. Independent Expenditures: $30,318,464 For Democrats: $12,066 Against Democrats: $16,774,319 For Republicans: $12,824,970 Against Republicans: $35,072 Electioneering Communications: $0 Electioneering Communications Communication Costs: $274,067 There are about 4 million NRA members and about 90 million gun owners. Where are the 85 million non NRA members that want to stop more gun control laws? Waiting for the few to save them? NRA added a million members after Sandy Hook. They now have 5 million members and with those new members and the many that became Life members when they ran the $300.00 membership deal they were able to get a short term influx of money for their war chest. I wonder how many of those 1 million new members came from Washington? No idea. What is frustrating though is seeing shit on kickstarter for a video game like Star Citizen which can get 60million in donations but we can't raise anywhere close to that amount for a fundamental right. We need to figure something out soon to be able to compete with bloomturd money. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 5:54:59 PM EDT
[#34]
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They had no problem spending 3.2 million to defeat a trigger lock initiative in 1997 which was favored to pass by a large margin at the time as well... so they do get involved in state matters as well as initiative processes, just not so much for us this year. So something has clearly changed. Either they think Washington is a lost cause, which I would greatly disagree with considering recent 2A gains in the state, but will admit could be their reasoning for lack of support. Or There are fuck fuck games going on behind the scenes due to the on-going feud with Alan Gottlieb and the NRA. If thats the case it would be a pretty petty reason to withhold support, and yet that is the only thing that makes sense as to why they refuse to support or even verbally endorse the competing pro-gun initiative. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Our law enforcement organizations (WACOPS specifically which represents a majority of police guilds in the state) were more active and supportive than the NRA in helping us on getting SBR's and Suppressors back. If enough state level organization were mobilized to effectively get that bill passed, then why would you need the NRA to spend more money? Difference between that situation and this is 594 isn't a bill. It is up to vote for the majority and the majority get a chance to trample on our rights. A lot easier to bomb politicians with communication vs raiding the television sets on the liberal stations. That being stated, not advocating that the NRA should of "done more". As is, our states voting guide is screwed up and has a few out right lies from the Attorney Generals office, how the hell can anyone combat that? I understand that, but Keekleberrys argument is confused and he is comparing two very different legislative processes to criticize the NRA inappropriately. They had no problem spending 3.2 million to defeat a trigger lock initiative in 1997 which was favored to pass by a large margin at the time as well... so they do get involved in state matters as well as initiative processes, just not so much for us this year. So something has clearly changed. Either they think Washington is a lost cause, which I would greatly disagree with considering recent 2A gains in the state, but will admit could be their reasoning for lack of support. Or There are fuck fuck games going on behind the scenes due to the on-going feud with Alan Gottlieb and the NRA. If thats the case it would be a pretty petty reason to withhold support, and yet that is the only thing that makes sense as to why they refuse to support or even verbally endorse the competing pro-gun initiative. You really don't get it, do you? NRA slapping their name on something can cause more harm than good in a blue state. Let's say NRA spends $5 million on your state. Bloomberg and Gates each send $10 mil to your opposition. Ballot initiative still passes, NRA is out $5 million that would have been better spent on Senate races. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:02:07 PM EDT
[#35]
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NRA contributions to 2014 elections North Carolina: $5.1 million Colorado: $4.7 million Iowa: $4.06 million Arkansas: $2.9 million Washington state where there's an actual anti-gun measure on the ballot for the first time in 20 years: 485k you fuckers are one of the states more messed up by liberals than the shit state I live in. Shut up, lost cause. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:03:52 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They had no problem spending 3.2 million to defeat a trigger lock initiative in 1997 which was favored to pass by a large margin at the time as well... so they do get involved in state matters as well as initiative processes, just not so much for us this year. So something has clearly changed. Either they think Washington is a lost cause, which I would greatly disagree with considering recent 2A gains in the state, but will admit could be their reasoning for lack of support. Or There are fuck fuck games going on behind the scenes due to the on-going feud with Alan Gottlieb and the NRA. If thats the case it would be a pretty petty reason to withhold support, and yet that is the only thing that makes sense as to why they refuse to support or even verbally endorse the competing pro-gun initiative. this is it exactly. the NRA refused to even publish a position supporting 591. the feud between the NRA and the SAF is directly responsible for the mess we're in. that, and the fact the NRA is simply not taking this initiative tactic seriously at all. they didn't do squat in Nevada, where this exact same bill is happening AGAIN, RIGHT NOW! gottlieb saw this coming years ago and wrote articles warning about it. the initiative tactic changes everything. you can't hold lawmakers accountable, it's the voters voting the legislation in. it's immune from lobbying representatives which has been the traditional battlefield of the NRA. there are only two ways to combat this new tactic: * outspend the opposition. ain't gonna happen with bloomy backing it. * outmaneuver the opposition with our own bills. this will require the support of the NRA and the SAF and other groups. the NRA must end their feuding, NOW. or we will lose everything. this election cycle it was "background checks". next election cycle, probably mandatory storage or some other bullshit. we can either write our own initative, or have another draconian initiative rammed down our throats. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:07:30 PM EDT
[#37]
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Washington is a lost cause. The gun laws are constantly rated in the bottom 25 states no matter how you'd like to see them. Its getting more and more liberal all the time. There are really two options for you. A) You live in western Washington, which in that case you're fucked and wouldn't know pro gun or a conservative lifestyle if it slapped you in the face. Or B) You live in eastern Washington which in that case you should move to Idaho and never look back. Pumping money into the state of Washington would be an absolute waste of money for the NRA. I feel the same way about western vs eastern Oregon, (and even to some extent western vs eastern California! )
Earlier this year I spoke with the NRA rep that covers WA (and UT). He was very concerned about Washington's ballot initiative and told me then that it looked like it would probably pass and they'd end up fighting it in the courts. 'Course, that was like 7 months ago, so ... 
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:10:07 PM EDT
[#38]
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You really don't get it, do you? NRA slapping their name on something can cause more harm than good in a blue state. Let's say NRA spends $5 million on your state. Bloomberg and Gates each send $10 mil to your opposition. Ballot initiative still passes, NRA is out $5 million that would have been better spent on Senate races. You don't get it, WA is an extremely pro-gun state that has passed 2 pro-NFA measures more or less unanimously in the last 3 years. Shall issue CCW, no training requirements, no state AWB, no mag limitations. In light of the recent NFA victories WA is better off gun law wise today than they were in 1997 when they plopped down 3.2 mil to defeat trigger locks. No-one expects them to match them dollar for dollar financially, we all know that's unrealistic at this point. But I don't think its a stretch to get a little bit of money to run a few TV ads opposite of the anti-gun ones to spell out the truth and expose the outright lies being perpetuated by the other side. If this initiative strategy is successful in this state it will be used elsewhere, and that's a terrifying thought. Because lying is protected speech and bloomberg can out spend us and out advertise everywhere. Our big chance was to squash it here and discourage future attempts. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:14:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:If this initiative strategy is successful in this state it will be used elsewhere, and that's a terrifying thought. Because lying is protected speech and bloomberg can out spend us and out advertise everywhere. Our big chance was to squash it here and discourage future attempts. it IS being used elsewhere, right now. they're already pushing it in nevada and arizona. and have publically stated intentions to take it to idaho, montana, and texas. and I don't see the NRA doing anything about it. the local gun groups aren't taking it seriously either. they don't realize how bad of a threat it is. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:19:44 PM EDT
[#40]
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It's not a bill. Those were all defeated in the legislature. It's a ballot referendum to the people. Which is scarier. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maybe if Washington didn't have a far left governor and the state legislature in the state house wasn't controlled by democrats you wouldn't have to worry about anti-gun bills. It's not a bill. Those were all defeated in the legislature. It's a ballot referendum to the people. Which is scarier. I think you have answered all of your own question. The people. There are an awful lot of liberals on the coasts of this nation |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:22:14 PM EDT
[#41]
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this is it exactly. the NRA refused to even publish a position supporting 591. the feud between the NRA and the SAF is directly responsible for the mess we're in. Or, as someone mentioned.....NRA is hesitant to throw their name into a vote in a blue state, especially when the polling for the initiative is so high. Which is worse: 1) NRA throws money at your cause (as they're doing) and helps with the ground game, while focusing on critical national elections, leaving the state level guys to take care of this state issue. 2) NRA throws all their weight behind 591 polling at 30%, spends 5 million dollars, it fails, anti gunners tout how they "beat the NRA". Yall keep trying to blame the NRA for a Washington voter problem.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:24:36 PM EDT
[#42]
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I think you have answered all of your own question. The people. There are an awful lot of liberals on the coasts of this nation Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maybe if Washington didn't have a far left governor and the state legislature in the state house wasn't controlled by democrats you wouldn't have to worry about anti-gun bills. It's not a bill. Those were all defeated in the legislature. It's a ballot referendum to the people. Which is scarier. I think you have answered all of your own question. The people. There are an awful lot of liberals on the coasts of this nation There's liberals at the helm of most major population centers. This is a trend, you're next, hope the NRA helps you guys more than they helped us. 
When your turn is up I'll be completely apathetic just like everyone here. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:25:53 PM EDT
[#43]
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Or, as someone mentioned.....NRA is hesitant to throw their name into a vote in a blue state, especially when the polling for the initiative is so high. Which is worse: 1) NRA throws money at your cause (as they're doing) and helps with the ground game, while focusing on critical national elections, leaving the state level guys to take care of this state issue. 2) NRA throws all their weight behind 591 polling at 30%, spends 5 million dollars, it fails, anti gunners tout how they "beat the NRA". Yall keep trying to blame the NRA for a Washington voter problem.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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this is it exactly. the NRA refused to even publish a position supporting 591. the feud between the NRA and the SAF is directly responsible for the mess we're in. Or, as someone mentioned.....NRA is hesitant to throw their name into a vote in a blue state, especially when the polling for the initiative is so high. Which is worse: 1) NRA throws money at your cause (as they're doing) and helps with the ground game, while focusing on critical national elections, leaving the state level guys to take care of this state issue. 2) NRA throws all their weight behind 591 polling at 30%, spends 5 million dollars, it fails, anti gunners tout how they "beat the NRA". Yall keep trying to blame the NRA for a Washington voter problem.
early polls had 591 polling to pass alongside 594 the elway polls have been all over the place with both issues. Who cares if they say they defeated NRA. NRA should have an interested in stopping this trend early and it costs no money to say they support 591, and can only help by getting pro-gunners on board. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:26:05 PM EDT
[#44]
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When your turn is up I'll be completely apathetic just like everyone here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
When your turn is up I'll be completely apathetic just like everyone here.
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Actively involved, but being outspent 10-1 What, you think we aren't fighting it? Lol Okay, so the NRA throws $10 million at WA to stop this state level ballot initiative, but we lose the US Senate and Democrats hold control with 51 seats. Every single NRA member from the other 49 states would be right to say "NRA hung us out to dry NATIONALLY to save WA". This one is on yall. Sorry, but in a year like this that's the reality of the situation. Now, for the 3rd time: Is your state level organization fighting this? Are you a member? Send me a link and I"ll sign up as a member too. This is a state level problem that your state level organization needs to fight. I am eager to help you fight it, but I wish you would quit saying retarded shit about the NRA being to blame here. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:26:55 PM EDT
[#45]
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NRA has to make calculations on where to put their money. NRA would LOVE to put millions into every State in the Republic, but it needs more members. I'm proud to say that this year I took the plunge and am now an EPL Member and hope to be a full blown Life Member by year's end. My wife also became a member this year although she only has a year membership right now. We should be able to make my wife a Life Member by the end of next year. What I would like to do is become an NRA Benefactor, but right now there are a lot of financial priorities competing against that. oh c'mon man, you can eat next week. the NRA would be happy to spend BILLIONS if the money was there. this is absolutely the MOST important subject concerning this country |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:30:02 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or, as someone mentioned.....NRA is hesitant to throw their name into a vote in a blue state, especially when the polling for the initiative is so high. Which is worse: 1) NRA throws money at your cause (as they're doing) and helps with the ground game, while focusing on critical national elections, leaving the state level guys to take care of this state issue. 2) NRA throws all their weight behind 591 polling at 30%, spends 5 million dollars, it fails, anti gunners tout how they "beat the NRA". Yall keep trying to blame the NRA for a Washington voter problem.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
this is it exactly. the NRA refused to even publish a position supporting 591. the feud between the NRA and the SAF is directly responsible for the mess we're in. Or, as someone mentioned.....NRA is hesitant to throw their name into a vote in a blue state, especially when the polling for the initiative is so high. Which is worse: 1) NRA throws money at your cause (as they're doing) and helps with the ground game, while focusing on critical national elections, leaving the state level guys to take care of this state issue. 2) NRA throws all their weight behind 591 polling at 30%, spends 5 million dollars, it fails, anti gunners tout how they "beat the NRA". Yall keep trying to blame the NRA for a Washington voter problem.
no, I blame the NRA for not cooperating with the SAF to get a bill to protect our ass against this initiative. the NRA is right now leaving arizona hanging out to dry against the EXACT SAME THING. their initiative is even worse in some ways than 594. and TX is next. unless the NRA starts taking this seriously, it's game over. bloomberg's tactic is they know they cannot win with the traditional legislative process - congress or state legislatures - where the NRA has strong influence. the initiative process is an end run around that whole system. it does not matter how much influence the NRA has over legislators now. bloomy can just buy initiatives in every state. nobody seems to understand how bad this is. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:31:58 PM EDT
[#47]
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There's liberals at the helm of most major population centers. This is a trend, you're next, hope the NRA helps you guys more than they helped us.
When your turn is up I'll be completely apathetic just like everyone here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maybe if Washington didn't have a far left governor and the state legislature in the state house wasn't controlled by democrats you wouldn't have to worry about anti-gun bills. It's not a bill. Those were all defeated in the legislature. It's a ballot referendum to the people. Which is scarier. I think you have answered all of your own question. The people. There are an awful lot of liberals on the coasts of this nation There's liberals at the helm of most major population centers. This is a trend, you're next, hope the NRA helps you guys more than they helped us.
When your turn is up I'll be completely apathetic just like everyone here. not so sure, we have been moving to the right at a fairly steady pace. We shall see after tuesday. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:36:40 PM EDT
[#48]
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not so sure, we have been moving to the right at a fairly steady pace. We shall see after tuesday. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Maybe if Washington didn't have a far left governor and the state legislature in the state house wasn't controlled by democrats you wouldn't have to worry about anti-gun bills. It's not a bill. Those were all defeated in the legislature. It's a ballot referendum to the people. Which is scarier. I think you have answered all of your own question. The people. There are an awful lot of liberals on the coasts of this nation There's liberals at the helm of most major population centers. This is a trend, you're next, hope the NRA helps you guys more than they helped us.
When your turn is up I'll be completely apathetic just like everyone here. not so sure, we have been moving to the right at a fairly steady pace. We shall see after tuesday. It IS a trend, they spend millions to get people to lie to folks and sign their bullshit petitions. Bullshit petition is then put before the people as a referendum/initiative, then they spam the fuck out of airwaves and outspend the pro-gunners by a healthy margin because they have much deeper pockets than us right now. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:36:48 PM EDT
[#49]
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What is the likely hood of any GOP winning any political office in Washington State? They are picking their battles with the goal of a GOP controlled Senate. 2004 WA Governor's Race 2008 Governor's Race for WA 2012 Governor's Race WA It is actually A LOT closer than you think. WA has a fairly conservative base with a lot of imported liberals from California, Colorado and, of course, their own homegrown socialists in Seattle. Voter fraud is RAMPANT amongst Dem voters here.  
The newest governor is awful too. He has slashed MANY jobs in the state. Someone I know works for the state and her job was the only one out of her office of about 20 that did not get cut. She has 28 years with the state, as did many of the others (we're talking CPAs and whatnot). WA is not a lost cause, but many people think so. The phrasing on the ballot for the upcoming election makes it sound like I-594 is everybody's best friend. It is basically making it such that you cannot sell a firearm to ANYONE unless you go through a dealer, save for direct family. Can't even lend them to a friend.
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Posted: 10/30/2014 6:37:38 PM EDT
[#50]
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NRA contributions to 2014 elections North Carolina: $5.1 million Colorado: $4.7 million Iowa: $4.06 million Arkansas: $2.9 million Washington state where there's an actual anti-gun measure on the ballot for the first time in 20 years: 485k I was just thinking about this today. I use SGN, ARMS, WAguns and have been a paying NRA member for a long time. I'm beyond upset at the lack of support provided by NRA. I will not be renewing my membership. |
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