O_P, not all of this is directed at you, but it provides a good segue into the rest of my post:

I'm as pro-cop as it gets, but yes, cops are responsible for determining what is and is not constitutional. When they take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States and enforce the laws, that oath is to uphold and defend the Constitution as they understand it. A police officer really can't be expected to do anything else.

The problem is that like most citizens, police officers' understanding of the Constitution is often limited solely to what the courts say is "okay." If the state or federal courts [erroneously] say that various gun control legislation is good-to-go, the average cop like the average citizen assumes that is correct. Same goes for things like checkpoints, civil asset forfeiture, drug laws, vehicle inventory searches, etc. For better or worse, this online community is much more attuned to the Constitution and its proper meaning than the rest of the public; police, citizen, or otherwise.

All of the bitching here about cops enforcing unconstitutional laws really ought to be directed toward the citizenry in general. Remember folks, cops are made up of a cross-section of the society at large. They get the same crappy constitutional education that everyone else gets. You want to fix the problem of cops enforcing unconstitutional laws? Fix our country's education system! Fix our courts! Fix our elected officials! To expect that the average officer with the same crappy constitutional education from the public school system tocome up with a proper understanding of the Constitution all on their own is a wee bit ridiculous. Should it be this way? No, but that's how it is. The average cop has only his own understanding of case law as related to him by his training and education to guide him.

The average cop, like the average citizen, is not as invested in constitutional law and theory as the average Arfcommer. For better or worse, the majority of America is not like us here on this site. A substantial segment of American citizens can't even be persuaded to vote, much less to care about their constitutional rights! I don't like this fact, but I recognize that it is the reality. Fortunately, there are many cops out there that do have a decent respect and understanding of the Constitution. There are entire law enforcement agencies that go out of their way to ensure that their officers are well educated in regards to the Constitution. But that is a reflection of that agency's community. The agencies in Wyoming are probably going to have a healthier respect for the Constitution than the agencies in California and New York because the citizenry that they serve have a healthier respect for the Constitution.

I am just so fucking sick of this attitude from cops. It's all about the accountability not the equipment.
How do I know police have a generally poor accountability. They get accused of being militarized, heavy handed, corrupt whatever and instead of looking at the situation and thinking how they have a responsibility, an oath to be better, they say things like " you get elected, you become a cop, you make the changes you want to see"
Well that's bullshit

I'm so sorry that so much is expected of you.

Shamefull

Damn penguin..that was well said......

absolutely not.....

Why don't you try not being a troll?

Sad but true.

Agree 100%.

No I get that, and that's not at all what I'm talking about. This thread seems to be moving way to fast to have a good dialog on it. Maybe when it slows down or I get more nicotine and caffeine ill expound on what I ( and I think krpind) were referring to.

You should heed your own advice.


Now that is a kick in the ass.

No, it's a legalistic dodge of the ethical argument.



It evades the responsibility for enforcing unConsitutional laws by taking the populist view that just because it's the law, it's right.



Most people are best only for doing what they're told.



 

You draw the line at writing hurt feelings reports for mods.

Apparently you haven't spent much time on the internet.

Perhaps he needs one of his own.

are you trying to have the "talk" in this thread? Seems a little off topic.

Read Aimless's post again.  It might be the most profound thing he's said in the last 13 years.   Especially considering the context.

Yes, the guy who nailed Jesus to the cross was probably a "Godly" man.  Just doing his Job.  He probably meant no ill will.     He probably washed his hands of the whole thing.  

As I see it, there are two camps here. Both agree that LE works under authority and can't just decide for themselves what to enforce. One group says that that authority is what their direct superiors say is The Law. The other group says that LE should exercise their own conscience and hold the Constitution as the standard and make judgements accordingly.



 

agree with this as well but it's all abour protecting the benefits and union monies

FIFY

Yet lawyers do theirs for sixty pieces of silver and call it legal.  

You are so full of shit, just like most lawyers.  

You could start by following your own advice and getting a job at Home Depot or something. As far as I'm aware there is no lawyer draft in progress.

Or you could continue to hide behind the (We have a judicial system) part of the statement which ironically is exactly the same defense used while jabbing others.

lol this thread is getting so good.

I don't recall the last toddler flash-banged by a squad of attorneys.....

The Court system decides what is Constitutional or not, and finally the Supreme Court.  Cops cannot do that.
Um..no the Constitution decides what is constitutional......... Judges interpret it...but evey citizen that can read it should be able to understand what it means..meaning it means exactly what it says..so yes a leo should be able to understand if the law he is enforcing is legal or not....(such as check points...even the supreme court said they are unconstitutional)

yup

No, the Court system does not decide what is constitutional or not. It interprets the Constitution. However, the Executive and the Legislative are also responsible for interpreting the Constitution according to their own understanding. For example: the Legislative is responsible for interpreting the Constitution in order that it does not pass unconstitutional laws. The Executive is responsible for interpreting the Constitution in order to avoid enforcing unconstitutional laws (first through the use of the veto power, and second, through the use of prosecutorial discretion). The problem is that once the Supreme Court asserted that the final interpretation of the Constitution was left to the Court alone, the other two branches abdicated their own responsibilities and forfeited them to the courts. If the Court says that a law passed by Congress is constitutional but the President disagrees, the President violates his oath of office if he defers to the Court's interpretation. Laws are supposed to undergo at least three layers of constitutional interpretation, not only one.

This responsibility to interpret the Constitution belongs to every government officer, including police officers. But I'll reiterate what I said in my earlier post: cops in general are taught exactly what the average citizen is taught. They're taught that the courts interpret the Constitution and whatever the Court says is okay, goes. As an example, I'll refer you to your own post.

It's indeed a bit of a conundrum.



But it's fun watching cops jump back and forth over the fence regarding it. Because ultimately, it's about them, and the authority they assert.



They need to decide if they're "just following orders" or are actually interested in doing the right thing.



 

really, throw any thread on any board attacking the profession and see how long it lasts.....I"m waiting....

Well sense people are personally attacking site staff now I will go ahead and say IBTL.

If you do not vote for the party who enacts laws, do you feel obligated to follow those laws?

This is turning out to be the most interesting thread in a long time.  

Do you want a page average? That will take some time to gather the stats but on here they usually go into the thirties at least before people get bored then it's duped 5 more times over the rest of the month. Wait a couple years and someone with their new fangled internet machine will post it again, rinse repeat...