User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 8:59:38 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
My wife and I are stumped. My son is doing a family tree project and the title reads "Williams family tree". We can't agree on a apostrophe before or after the s. She says before, but to me that would mean "William is family tree", which is obviously wrong. I think its after the s.But part of me also thinks that there is no apostrophe at all. So, what do ARFCOMs resident grammar Nazis think? /facepalm |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 8:59:52 PM EDT
[#2]
4 year teacher of grammar here. William's if it belongs to him only, Williams' if it belongs to the whole family of Williams. It's not a contraction, it's using the possessive form of the apostrophe.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:00:18 PM EDT
[#3]
William's = singular ownership by William
Williams' plural ownership by those named Williams. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:00:24 PM EDT
[#4]
First world problems...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:00:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
4 year teacher of grammar here. William's if it belongs to him only, Williams' if it belongs to the whole family of Williams. It's not a contraction, it's using the possessive form of the apostrophe. This |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:01:35 PM EDT
[#6]
I don't know what you're problem's are with this grammer.
I'd think its something to do with common, core maybe? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:01:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
First world grade problems... sheesh. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:02:05 PM EDT
[#8]
What Difference Does It Make?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:02:28 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
4 year teacher of grammar here. William's if it belongs to him only, Williams' if it belongs to the whole family of Williams. It's not a contraction, it's using the possessive form of the apostrophe. Thanks, you proved my wife was right  .
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:03:37 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks, you proved my wife was right .Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
4 year teacher of grammar here. William's if it belongs to him only, Williams' if it belongs to the whole family of Williams. It's not a contraction, it's using the possessive form of the apostrophe. Thanks, you proved my wife was right .We know, we read the OP. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:03:41 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks, you proved my wife was right .Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
4 year teacher of grammar here. William's if it belongs to him only, Williams' if it belongs to the whole family of Williams. It's not a contraction, it's using the possessive form of the apostrophe. Thanks, you proved my wife was right .Sweet, where's my wife picture now? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:04:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
sheesh. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
First world grade problems... sheesh. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:04:06 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
My wife and I are stumped. My son is doing a family tree project and the title reads "Williams family tree". We can't agree on a apostrophe before or after the s. She says before, but to me that would mean "William is family tree", which is obviously wrong. I think its after the s.But part of me also thinks that there is no apostrophe at all. So, what do ARFCOMs resident grammar Nazis think? ARFCOM's |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:05:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Can the spelling Nazis partake?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:09:58 PM EDT
[#15]
Never mind.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:14:03 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 4 year teacher of grammar here. William's if it belongs to him only, Williams' if it belongs to the whole family of Williams. It's not a contraction, it's using the possessive form of the apostrophe.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:14:28 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: First world grade problems... sheesh. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:15:04 PM EDT
[#18]
If "Williams" is your last name, then titling the project The Williams Family Tree eliminates the need for an apostrophe.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:16:24 PM EDT
[#19]
William's family tree -- a family tree that belongs to a guy named William
Williams Family Tree -- the title of a document that describes the ancestry of the Williams family Williams' Family Tree -- a document that describes the ancestry of multiple families that share the last name Williams |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:21:08 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
William's family tree -- a family tree that belongs to a guy named William Williams Family Tree -- the title of a document that describes the ancestry of the Williams family Williams' Family Tree -- a document that describes the ancestry of multiple families that share the last name Williams Blade, I am impressed! Good to see ya`! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:28:35 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Blade, I am impressed! Good to see ya`!
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
William's family tree -- a family tree that belongs to a guy named William Williams Family Tree -- the title of a document that describes the ancestry of the Williams family Williams' Family Tree -- a document that describes the ancestry of multiple families that share the last name Williams Blade, I am impressed! Good to see ya`!
Actually, I'm second guessing that Williams' one. That's a plural possessive. So, that should be a family tree that belongs to a multiple families named Williams. ETA: Now that I think about it, I don't know what a Williams' family tree would be . . . a family tree owned by a bunch of guys named William, maybe . . . 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:31:54 PM EDT
[#22]
D'o, not ask m.e I c:ant" he'lp ) you (
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:34:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Is your family's name "Williams" or is it "William"?
If it's "Williams", then "Williams family tree" would be correct. It's the "Family tree of the Williams family". Just like if your last name was Johnson, it would be the "Johnson family tree". Not the "Johnson's family tree" or "Johnsons family tree". Grammatically, you could use "Williams' family tree", because the family tree is that of the Williams family, so it's possessive, but colloquially, you'd just use "Williams family tree". |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:39:43 PM EDT
[#24]
The apostrophe goes after the s. The main question is whether it should be the Williams' family tree or the Williams's family tree. It is largely a stylistic choice. However, both Fowler's Modern English Usage, and the New Oxford Style Guide agree that it should be the latter.
Exceptions are made for names from the ancient world and for names ending in a "iz" sound. The proper title should read "Williams's Family Tree". |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:47:50 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
/facepalm Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My wife and I are stumped. My son is doing a family tree project and the title reads "Williams family tree". We can't agree on a apostrophe before or after the s. She says before, but to me that would mean "William is family tree", which is obviously wrong. I think its after the s.But part of me also thinks that there is no apostrophe at all. So, what do ARFCOMs resident grammar Nazis think? /facepalm Big facepalm. "'s" can be a contraction for "is" but it also signifies possession. Assuming William is your son's first name, "William's Family Tree". If it's a last name that's Williams his last name it should read "Williams' Family Tree" Do you even 3rd grade grammar, Bro? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:50:07 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
D'o, not axt m.e I c:ant" he'lp ) you ( You spailed that 1 wrong. Fixt it fer ya. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:51:28 PM EDT
[#27]
English teacher, 20 years.
Depends on a lot of things. Is "Williams" a first name or last name? If it is a first name, "William", then you are obviously saying that the family tree belongs to William. = "William's" If it is a last name, then is it "William" or "Williams"? If "William", then use apostrophe "S" to show singular possession (i.e., referring to the individual possessor/creator of the family tree by last name). If you are referring to the family collectively, then "Williams' " with the apostrophe afterward. If the last name is "Williams", you should never put an apostrophe after the M. If that's the case, and you are referring to the person who made the family tree and showing possession, it is safe to put "Williams' ". When proper nouns end in "S", you most often put an apostrophe at the end to denote either singular or plural possession. http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/1073/what-is-the-correct-possessive-for-nouns-ending-in-s Thus, if you are referring to the Williams family collectively, or referring to an individual with the last name Williams, and showing possession, it could be "Williams' " in either case. EDIT: As another poster stated, you could also refer to the Williams Family as a title, and not in the possessive. In that case, it wouldn't be any different from any other last name (e.g., Johnson Family Tree, Smith Family Tree) and no apostrophe would be necessary. TL;DR Just put "My Family Tree" at the top and be done with it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:53:46 PM EDT
[#28]
"Grammar"
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:54:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually, I'm second guessing that Williams' one. That's a plural possessive. So, that should be a family tree that belongs to a multiple families named Williams. ETA: Now that I think about it, I don't know what a Williams' family tree would be . . . a family tree owned by a bunch of guys named William, maybe . . .
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
William's family tree -- a family tree that belongs to a guy named William Williams Family Tree -- the title of a document that describes the ancestry of the Williams family Williams' Family Tree -- a document that describes the ancestry of multiple families that share the last name Williams Blade, I am impressed! Good to see ya`!
Actually, I'm second guessing that Williams' one. That's a plural possessive. So, that should be a family tree that belongs to a multiple families named Williams. ETA: Now that I think about it, I don't know what a Williams' family tree would be . . . a family tree owned by a bunch of guys named William, maybe . . .
GD. For when no other place on the web will yield more entertainment.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:55:17 PM EDT
[#30]
This conundrum has vexed doormat makers for time immemorial.
I would go with William's's. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 9:57:30 PM EDT
[#31]
William Family Tree
Smith Family Tree flinch08 Family Tree Why do you need the "s". |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 10:00:22 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We know, we read the OP. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: 4 year teacher of grammar here. William's if it belongs to him only, Williams' if it belongs to the whole family of Williams. It's not a contraction, it's using the possessive form of the apostrophe. Thanks, you proved my wife was right .We know, we read the OP. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 10:03:01 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
English teacher, 20 years. Depends on a lot of things. Is "Williams" a first name or last name? If it is a first name, "William", then you are obviously saying that the family tree belongs to William. = "William's" If it is a last name, then is it "William" or "Williams"? If "William", then use apostrophe "S" to show singular possession (i.e., referring to the individual possessor/creator of the family tree by last name). If you are referring to the family collectively, then "Williams' " with the apostrophe afterward. If the last name is "Williams", you should never put an apostrophe after the M. If that's the case, and you are referring to the person who made the family tree and showing possession, it is safe to put "Williams' ". When proper nouns end in "S", you most often put an apostrophe at the end to denote either singular or plural possession. http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/1073/what-is-the-correct-possessive-for-nouns-ending-in-s Thus, if you are referring to the Williams family collectively, or referring to an individual with the last name Williams, and showing possession, it could be "Williams' " in either case. TL;DR Just put "My Family Tree" at the top and be done with it. Teachers are good people. Hey everyone, let us vote for this posters response. English was always a favorite of mine, but to save my life, I am not sure how to answer the OP`s question. Have been out of school too long and am about to qualify for AARP. I hate getting old......You forget so much over the years. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 10:05:19 PM EDT
[#34]
GrammAr.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 10:06:19 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
My wife and I are stumped. My son is doing a family tree project and the title reads "Williams family tree". We can't agree on a apostrophe before or after the s. She says before, but to me that would mean "William is family tree", which is obviously wrong. I think its after the s.But part of me also thinks that there is no apostrophe at all. So, what do ARFCOMs resident grammar Nazis think? I either see why you'd have to ask for help, or really appreciate your sense of humor. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 10:15:09 PM EDT
[#36]
After the S, or not at all. It would look better with none at all.
And you spelled "grammar" wrong in your title. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 10:15:53 PM EDT
[#37]
Now that we've solved the grammar conundrum, does the family tree include any royalty or Casino-Americans?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 10:22:05 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
William's family tree -- a family tree that belongs to a guy named William Williams Family Tree -- the title of a document that describes the ancestry of the Williams family Williams' Family Tree -- a document that describes the ancestry of multiple families that share the last name Williams Hmmm not sure about the last one. If it refers to multiple families then it should be: Williams' Family Trees |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 10:31:18 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmmm not sure about the last one. If it refers to multiple families then it should be: Williams' Family Trees Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
William's family tree -- a family tree that belongs to a guy named William Williams Family Tree -- the title of a document that describes the ancestry of the Williams family Williams' Family Tree -- a document that describes the ancestry of multiple families that share the last name Williams Hmmm not sure about the last one. If it refers to multiple families then it should be: Williams' Family Trees Yeah, I screwed that one up. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 10:33:40 PM EDT
[#40]
Assuming that Williams is a surname, then I think no punctuation is needed. Don't ask me why. Apostrophes indicate an omission or possession.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 10:34:25 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Grammar" Yes. Fix your title, OP. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 10:38:06 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This conundrum has vexed doormat makers for time immemorial. I would go with William's's. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 10:42:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Do not sweat it as "Common Core" lets you get it wrong as long as the kid can conevy how they arrived at the wrong answer.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 10:42:18 PM EDT
[#44]
Potato. The answer is po-ta-to.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 10:43:36 PM EDT
[#45]
The main question is whether it should be the Williams' family tree or the Williams's family tree.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 10:47:52 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The main question is whether it should be the Williams' family tree or the Williams's family tree.http://2u.lc/LYkn Quote fail. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 10:54:47 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do not sweat it as "Common Core" lets you get it right as long as the kid can convey how they arrived at the wrong answer.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 11:36:11 PM EDT
[#48]
I need a drink after reading this thread
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/24/2014 7:15:58 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I need a drink after reading this thread Try group editing/proofreading a magazine. I did it for 20+ years with three other editors. You'd be amazed at the minutiae that can lead to a knock-down, drag-out argument. There's nothing like going to the mat over the placement of a comma. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/24/2014 7:30:32 AM EDT
[#50]
GRAMMAR
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
