User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 4:27:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Definitely looks like two different powders in that picture.
I'm no reloader and have no idea what significance mixed powder is but I needed and OST anyways. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 4:41:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
double tap got bit a few years back by their brass supplier. suddenly mcnetts ammo started kabooming g20s. but the pressures were spot on within saami spec. it was bad brass. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I also had an AR-15 blow up. I managed to get the brass case out of the chamber. The upper receiver and bolt and bolt carrier were destroyed. The barrel was just fine because all the pressure went out the back end. The case in the chamber looked as if someone had EDM machined a channel the width of the primer at the 3 O'clock position. I sent ammo from that lot off to a lab for testing, and they said that they set max pressures at 60,000 (I forget if that was CPU or PSI), and ALL the ammo in that lot was very consistently around 49,000 PSI with an extremely low variance between rounds. The powder manufacturer said that the powder was designed for 5.56 rounds and if you scooped a case full, and compressed a bullet on top of it, you couldn't develop enough pressure to go over max. As the rifle had been shot many times before with that ammo, the lab's conclusion was that I had a faulty cartridge case. They said that this happens very rarely, but it does happen. Fortunately, no one was hurt, although it did frighten the royal crap out of my wife. double tap got bit a few years back by their brass supplier. suddenly mcnetts ammo started kabooming g20s. but the pressures were spot on within saami spec. it was bad brass. Do they use starline brass? This may be why my Georgia Arms 10mm that uses Starline brass has some bulged cases with the warmer loads that I bought a few years ago.  
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 4:49:01 PM EDT
[#3]
   Here is a round I sacrificed for the thread, my findings. seems like the powder in this round was a bit higher than those so could be reloads using pulled down brass which is what would explain the primers all being the same crimp. the powder looked about the same as the picture posted in this thread.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 4:53:44 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm no expert but does this not look like 4 different primers in these? I'm thinking reloads for sure. http://i58.tinypic.com/10xzhcp.jpg Primers look the same... I'm assuming that lighting is changing the color temp of the photo from left to right. What I DO see is that the primer crimp has been removed, which indicates reloaded ammo. Plus, ammo with LC headstamps spanning a 10-year range indicates reloads from bulk surplus brass. I stick by my original hypotheses: bullet setback while round was chambered, OR a double charge of powder by a reloader who wasn't paying attention to what he was doing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 5:18:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Primers look the same... I'm assuming that lighting is changing the color temp of the photo from left to right. What I DO see is that the primer crimp has been removed, which indicates reloaded ammo. Plus, ammo with LC headstamps spanning a 10-year range indicates reloads from bulk surplus brass. I stick by my original hypotheses: bullet setback while round was chambered, OR a double charge of powder by a reloader who wasn't paying attention to what he was doing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm no expert but does this not look like 4 different primers in these? I'm thinking reloads for sure. http://i58.tinypic.com/10xzhcp.jpg Primers look the same... I'm assuming that lighting is changing the color temp of the photo from left to right. What I DO see is that the primer crimp has been removed, which indicates reloaded ammo. Plus, ammo with LC headstamps spanning a 10-year range indicates reloads from bulk surplus brass. I stick by my original hypotheses: bullet setback while round was chambered, OR a double charge of powder by a reloader who wasn't paying attention to what he was doing. All ammunition produced by LCAAP is government property, the only way title to such goods can be transferred is through foreign military sales. This is law. Law also has it that only components, minus primers, may be salvaged and sold as scrap, this is handled through the installation's DRMO. Primers and any explosive materials must be rendered inert. Any components over .50 caliber must be mutilated or demiled in accordance with federal regulations. Scrap from LCAAP is handled exactly like fired cartridge cases, also sold through DRMO by their contractor, Government Liquidations. When a commercial reloader processes fired brass, extensive polishing is done. This is why Black Hills blue box is as shiny as a brass bed in a sporting house. Federal Cartridge has been playing the market with their XM line, made using LCAAP produced brass and bullets, making shooters believe it is straight from Missouri when if the purchaser reads the box, comes from Anoka MN. And real M855 doesn't have mixed head stamp dates in each box. There was NEVER a NATO spec for M193, yet the XM193 I have seen comes in NATO stamped brass. A clear sign this isn't LCAAP ammo.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 5:18:09 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Primers look the same... I'm assuming that lighting is changing the color temp of the photo from left to right. What I DO see is that the primer crimp has been removed, which indicates reloaded ammo. Plus, ammo with LC headstamps spanning a 10-year range indicates reloads from bulk surplus brass. I stick by my original hypotheses: bullet setback while round was chambered, OR a double charge of powder by a reloader who wasn't paying attention to what he was doing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm no expert but does this not look like 4 different primers in these? I'm thinking reloads for sure. http://i58.tinypic.com/10xzhcp.jpg Primers look the same... I'm assuming that lighting is changing the color temp of the photo from left to right. What I DO see is that the primer crimp has been removed, which indicates reloaded ammo. Plus, ammo with LC headstamps spanning a 10-year range indicates reloads from bulk surplus brass. I stick by my original hypotheses: bullet setback while round was chambered, OR a double charge of powder by a reloader who wasn't paying attention to what he was doing. Those crimps are intact, not removed. One still has visible sealant. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 5:20:48 PM EDT
[#7]
The crimped/sealed primers dont prove it as factory ammo nearly as much as the tar/sealant on the projectile.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 5:25:24 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The crimped/sealed primers dont prove it as factory brass nearly as much as the tar/sealant on the projectile. Well, they prove it's factory primed brass, but as has been pointed out, it's possible that a reloader bought primed brass. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 9:17:41 PM EDT
[#9]
Delta, were the disassembled cartridges you weighed the powder from 55gr 193 or 62gr 855? I know one was FC .223 but didn't notice what the others were.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 9:42:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Delta, were the disassembled cartridges you weighed the powder from 55gr 193 or 62gr 855? I know one was FC .223 but didn't notice what the others were. Let me go out and weigh them. Be back shortly. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 9:50:05 PM EDT
[#11]
62 gr. bullets
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 10:15:37 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I pulled all the bullets and they all looked alike in shape. I did not weigh them. The powder in each case (except the first one) was weighed. Without a microscope inspection, the powder all looked the same. See photo below. The low was 23.9 gr. and the high was 25.3 gr. Here are the weights by headstamp: LC02 - 23.9, 24.7 LC03 - 24.9 and one I did not weigh LC04 - 24.7 LC05 - 25.2, 25.3, 24.7, 24.7, 25.3, 24.7 LC06 - 24.8, 25.3, 24.8, 25.1, 24.8, 24.8, 25.0, 24.8 LC07 - 25.0, 25.3 ETA. for correction  LC12 - 24.8 FC 223 - 24.8 http://i59.tinypic.com/2a5zlgx.jpg Looks like TAC powder. and in that range for that podwer edit I misunderstood what he said, it looks like mixed powder to me in that picture. the darker stuff looks round like tac. iraqvet8888 did a video showing what mixed powder can do to a mosin......it blew it up |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 10:16:14 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those all look like they have the primer crimp intact, so probably not reloads. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm no expert but does this not look like 4 different primers in these? I'm thinking reloads for sure. http://i58.tinypic.com/10xzhcp.jpg Those all look like they have the primer crimp intact, so probably not reloads. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 10:18:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Primers look the same... I'm assuming that lighting is changing the color temp of the photo from left to right. What I DO see is that the primer crimp has been removed, which indicates reloaded ammo. Plus, ammo with LC headstamps spanning a 10-year range indicates reloads from bulk surplus brass. I stick by my original hypotheses: bullet setback while round was chambered, OR a double charge of powder by a reloader who wasn't paying attention to what he was doing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm no expert but does this not look like 4 different primers in these? I'm thinking reloads for sure. http://i58.tinypic.com/10xzhcp.jpg Primers look the same... I'm assuming that lighting is changing the color temp of the photo from left to right. What I DO see is that the primer crimp has been removed, which indicates reloaded ammo. Plus, ammo with LC headstamps spanning a 10-year range indicates reloads from bulk surplus brass. I stick by my original hypotheses: bullet setback while round was chambered, OR a double charge of powder by a reloader who wasn't paying attention to what he was doing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 8:01:51 AM EDT
[#15]
Bullet setback does not cause higher pressure in rifle rounds. Yes, in pistol as the peak pressure is reached before the bullet moves. In a rifle, peak pressure is inches down the bore. Setback in a rifle reduces pressure since the bullet has more free travel.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 8:11:37 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, he could have bought primed cases. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm no expert but does this not look like 4 different primers in these? I'm thinking reloads for sure. http://i58.tinypic.com/10xzhcp.jpg Those all look like they have the primer crimp intact, so probably not reloads. I know several years ago Wideners for one was selling unfired primed LC brass. A friend of mine bought several thousand of these. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 8:13:53 AM EDT
[#17]
Did the FC .223 case also have a 62gr bullet, or was it 55gr?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 9:19:29 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, they prove it's factory primed brass, but as has been pointed out, it's possible that a reloader bought primed brass. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The crimped/sealed primers dont prove it as factory AMMO nearly as much as the tar/sealant on the projectile. Well, they prove it's factory primed brass, but as has been pointed out, it's possible that a reloader bought primed brass. Sorry I typed the wrong word there.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 1:21:47 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
62 gr. bullets Thanks Delta. That explains the lighter powder charge vs 55gr XM193 that was mentioned earlier. That sounds about right for 62gr 855 other than pretty wide powder weight variations. For those that keep bringing up a "double charge", again that would amount to stuffing 50+ grains of powder in that little case. Can't do it. Unless a totally wrong powder was used, like maybe Red Dot or something, it just isn't possible. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 1:26:52 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee419/my2dogs/20141021_163627_RichtoneHDR.jpg http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee419/my2dogs/20141021_163539_RichtoneHDR.jpg http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee419/my2dogs/20141021_163001_RichtoneHDR.jpg Here is a round I sacrificed for the thread, my findings. seems like the powder in this round was a bit higher than those so could be reloads using pulled down brass which is what would explain the primers all being the same crimp. the powder looked about the same as the picture posted in this thread. Yours is a 55gr FMJ, the picture OP posted clearly shows a 62gr SS109 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 1:28:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The crimped/sealed primers dont prove it as factory AMMO nearly as much as the tar/sealant on the projectile. Well, they prove it's factory primed brass, but as has been pointed out, it's possible that a reloader bought primed brass. Sorry I typed the wrong word there.... Also I'm going back on my comment here. I thought the other guy was the OP.... There is NO sealant on that SS109, without a picture of the mouth of the brass its impossible to tell, but to me it looks like there isn't any meaning it didn't come from federal. Also the ring above the cannelure on the projectile is making me think that either the projectiles were seated too deep and past the cannelure, or they were pulls. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 1:48:23 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is NO sealant on that SS109, without a picture of the mouth of the brass its impossible to tell, but to me it looks like there isn't any meaning it didn't come from federal. Various lots of XM ammo have been produced without case mouth sealant over the years. Very inconsistant from one lot to the next, and one year to the next. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 2:05:10 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bullet setback does not cause higher pressure in rifle rounds. Yes, in pistol as the peak pressure is reached before the bullet moves. In a rifle, peak pressure is inches down the bore. Setback in a rifle reduces pressure since the bullet has more free travel. Er - so - er - why don't we do that all the time in rifle rounds? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 2:07:19 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Er - so - er - why don't we do that all the time in rifle rounds? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Bullet setback does not cause higher pressure in rifle rounds. Yes, in pistol as the peak pressure is reached before the bullet moves. In a rifle, peak pressure is inches down the bore. Setback in a rifle reduces pressure since the bullet has more free travel. Er - so - er - why don't we do that all the time in rifle rounds? I would assume there is a pressure spike when that free traveling accelerating projectile meets the rifling. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 2:16:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ah. i only reload pistol but that seems to be quite a big spread of weights, especially for factory ammo Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I pulled all the bullets and they all looked alike in shape. I did not weigh them. The powder in each case (except the first one) was weighed. Without a microscope inspection, the powder all looked the same. See photo below. The low was 23.9 gr. and the high was 25.3 gr. Here are the weights by headstamp: LC02 - 23.9, 24.7 LC03 - 24.9 and one I did not weigh LC04 - 24.7 LC05 - 25.2, 25.3, 24.7, 24.7, 25.3, 24.7 LC06 - 24.8, 25.3, 24.8, 25.1, 24.8, 24.8, 25.0, 24.8 LC07 - 25.0, 53.3 LC12 - 24.8 FC 223 - 24.8 http://i59.tinypic.com/2a5zlgx.jpg we have a winner Whoops, I made an error, it should have been 25.3. Sorry about that. ah. i only reload pistol but that seems to be quite a big spread of weights, especially for factory ammo Actually that is normal for factory ammo. Unless you are weighing every charge by hand there will be a slight difference from round to round, |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 2:35:12 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm no expert but does this not look like 4 different primers in these? I'm thinking reloads for sure. http://i58.tinypic.com/10xzhcp.jpg I don't think the ones on the outside are factory. The crimps haven't been completely removed, but they are not in contact with the primer either. I am going to say these are reloads, or at least some of them are. Something about them just seems off. I have some LC XM 855 at home from this era. Mixed headstamps from 2000-2004 came in a sealed 1000 box loose, I can pull a few down and weigh the powder charges when I get back to my reloading bench this weekend if need be. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 3:01:42 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had a squib once with WOLF ammo that was what my gunsmith called a goldilocks squib. Fucking bullet did get to the gas port, did cycle the rifle but as a short stroke and it wouldn't have if I had been running a heavy buffer. It felt "off" though so I stopped and checked. Bullet was caught just after the port. Glad I didn't fire another round. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Would the barrel be bulged or split if it was a squib?  http://youtu.be/A5bs6epOYLw
Yeah I would bet the barrel would have a bulge. The froward assist is a great way to take a fixable malfunction to a catastrophic blow out. It is also possible to leave a bullet in the chamber/leade if the round was improperly crimped of the bullet seated too far out. The round may not allow the bolt to go into battery and the bullet stays in as an obstruction. the next round will not allow the bolt to go into battery without the mechanical advantage of the forward assist then BOOM. No, it's not gonna happen like that. 1. If you had a squib, there would be a little bang but the bolt won't cycle. 2. Then you'd have to manually cycle it. 3. If there is a bullet stuck not allowing the bolt to go into battery, you aren't going to get it into battery with the forward assist using your thumb. More like beat on it with a hammer. And if you had to do that, and still didn't have a clue that something is really wrong, you deserve to blow up the gun.
I had a squib once with WOLF ammo that was what my gunsmith called a goldilocks squib. Fucking bullet did get to the gas port, did cycle the rifle but as a short stroke and it wouldn't have if I had been running a heavy buffer. It felt "off" though so I stopped and checked. Bullet was caught just after the port. Glad I didn't fire another round. There was an AK some of the guys would blast away with when I was in Iraq. We almost lost an Australian O6 one day due to a squib like that while he was firing full auto. Luckiest thing I've ever seen. The barrel ruptured and blew off at the gas port, and had the previous round's slug stuck in just behind the muzzle. How it cycled that action without exiting the bbl I'll never know. We stopped firing captured weapons and ammo after that. Turns out there was a good reason for the policy.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 8:42:22 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Er - so - er - why don't we do that all the time in rifle rounds? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Bullet setback does not cause higher pressure in rifle rounds. Yes, in pistol as the peak pressure is reached before the bullet moves. In a rifle, peak pressure is inches down the bore. Setback in a rifle reduces pressure since the bullet has more free travel. Er - so - er - why don't we do that all the time in rifle rounds? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 8:43:50 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would assume there is a pressure spike when that free traveling accelerating projectile meets the rifling. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Bullet setback does not cause higher pressure in rifle rounds. Yes, in pistol as the peak pressure is reached before the bullet moves. In a rifle, peak pressure is inches down the bore. Setback in a rifle reduces pressure since the bullet has more free travel. Er - so - er - why don't we do that all the time in rifle rounds? I would assume there is a pressure spike when that free traveling accelerating projectile meets the rifling. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 8:46:44 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not necessarily. Most factory ammo is loaded short of leave. In other words it jumps into the rifling. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Bullet setback does not cause higher pressure in rifle rounds. Yes, in pistol as the peak pressure is reached before the bullet moves. In a rifle, peak pressure is inches down the bore. Setback in a rifle reduces pressure since the bullet has more free travel. Er - so - er - why don't we do that all the time in rifle rounds? I would assume there is a pressure spike when that free traveling accelerating projectile meets the rifling. True. If it was set back far enough into the case, could it have yawed in the chamber before getting to the rifling, causing high pressure by slowing the bullet? Another poster in this thread reported having a bulet set back almost all the way to the neck. Guessing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 9:09:23 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: True. If it was set back far enough into the case, could it have yawed in the chamber before getting to the rifling, causing high pressure by slowing the bullet? Another poster in this thread reported having a bulet set back almost all the way to the neck. Guessing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Bullet setback does not cause higher pressure in rifle rounds. Yes, in pistol as the peak pressure is reached before the bullet moves. In a rifle, peak pressure is inches down the bore. Setback in a rifle reduces pressure since the bullet has more free travel. Er - so - er - why don't we do that all the time in rifle rounds? I would assume there is a pressure spike when that free traveling accelerating projectile meets the rifling. True. If it was set back far enough into the case, could it have yawed in the chamber before getting to the rifling, causing high pressure by slowing the bullet? Another poster in this thread reported having a bulet set back almost all the way to the neck. Guessing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 9:17:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At 23 grains that case is pretty full. I just can't see it. If they are reloads, I'm voting for some pistol powder mixed in. Guy didn't clean his hopper good, and his first load or two dropped mixed powder. I gotta think 10 grains of H110 mixed in with rifle powder could be pretty rough. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I would assume there is a pressure spike when that free traveling accelerating projectile meets the rifling. True. If it was set back far enough into the case, could it have yawed in the chamber before getting to the rifling, causing high pressure by slowing the bullet? Another poster in this thread reported having a bulet set back almost all the way to the neck. Guessing. This is craptastic Federal Cartridge ammo made from reclaimed Lake City brass. Brass that was rejected for military ammo. Yet you suckers keep buying into the idea it is quality, fresh from contract over runs. There has never been any M193 produced to NATO spec. So why do you buy XM193 with the NATO bunting? That XM855 without bullet sealant comes from MINNESOTA. Not Missouri. Suckers. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 9:57:27 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are not reloads. ANNEAL MARKS, are you cretins blind? What reloader, commercial or private, has the ability to match the inductive heating that SCAMP has? No flame, short of plasma, can do that Job. And why would a reloader do that? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I would assume there is a pressure spike when that free traveling accelerating projectile meets the rifling. True. If it was set back far enough into the case, could it have yawed in the chamber before getting to the rifling, causing high pressure by slowing the bullet? Another poster in this thread reported having a bulet set back almost all the way to the neck. Guessing. This is craptastic Federal Cartridge ammo made from reclaimed Lake City brass. Brass that was rejected for military ammo. Yet you suckers keep buying into the idea it is quality, fresh from contract over runs. There has never been any M193 produced to NATO spec. So why do you buy XM193 with the NATO bunting? That XM855 without bullet sealant comes from MINNESOTA. Not Missouri. Suckers.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 10:13:41 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are not reloads. ANNEAL MARKS, are you cretins blind? What reloader, commercial or private, has the ability to match the inductive heating that SCAMP has? No flame, short of plasma, can do that Job. And why would a reloader do that? This is craptastic Federal Cartridge ammo made from reclaimed Lake City brass. Brass that was rejected for military ammo. Yet you suckers keep buying into the idea it is quality, fresh from contract over runs. There has never been any M193 produced to NATO spec. So why do you buy XM193 with the NATO bunting? That XM855 without bullet sealant comes from MINNESOTA. Not Missouri. Suckers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would assume there is a pressure spike when that free traveling accelerating projectile meets the rifling. True. If it was set back far enough into the case, could it have yawed in the chamber before getting to the rifling, causing high pressure by slowing the bullet? Another poster in this thread reported having a bulet set back almost all the way to the neck. Guessing. This is craptastic Federal Cartridge ammo made from reclaimed Lake City brass. Brass that was rejected for military ammo. Yet you suckers keep buying into the idea it is quality, fresh from contract over runs. There has never been any M193 produced to NATO spec. So why do you buy XM193 with the NATO bunting? That XM855 without bullet sealant comes from MINNESOTA. Not Missouri. Suckers. THEY SELL PULL DOWN BRASS OMFG!!!! ITS EVEN IN STOCK |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 10:29:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryThey are not reloads. ANNEAL MARKS, are you cretins blind? What reloader, commercial or private, has the ability to match the inductive heating that SCAMP has? No flame, short of plasma, can do that Job. And why would a reloader do that? This is craptastic Federal Cartridge ammo made from reclaimed Lake City brass. Brass that was rejected for military ammo. Yet you suckers keep buying into the idea it is quality, fresh from contract over runs. There has never been any M193 produced to NATO spec. So why do you buy XM193 with the NATO bunting? That XM855 without bullet sealant comes from MINNESOTA. Not Missouri. Suckers. THEY SELL PULL DOWN BRASS OMFG!!!! ITS EVEN IN STOCK |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 10:37:46 PM EDT
[#36]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 10:38:13 PM EDT
[#37]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 10:42:18 PM EDT
[#38]
I am not going to guess but want to watch the purse fight . Keith J they sell that brass I have a bag from Wideners
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 10:42:59 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are not reloads. ANNEAL MARKS, are you cretins blind? What reloader, commercial or private, has the ability to match the inductive heating that SCAMP has? No flame, short of plasma, can do that Job. And why would a reloader do that? This is craptastic Federal Cartridge ammo made from reclaimed Lake City brass. Brass that was rejected for military ammo. Yet you suckers keep buying into the idea it is quality, fresh from contract over runs. There has never been any M193 produced to NATO spec. So why do you buy XM193 with the NATO bunting? That XM855 without bullet sealant comes from MINNESOTA. Not Missouri. Suckers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would assume there is a pressure spike when that free traveling accelerating projectile meets the rifling. True. If it was set back far enough into the case, could it have yawed in the chamber before getting to the rifling, causing high pressure by slowing the bullet? Another poster in this thread reported having a bulet set back almost all the way to the neck. Guessing. This is craptastic Federal Cartridge ammo made from reclaimed Lake City brass. Brass that was rejected for military ammo. Yet you suckers keep buying into the idea it is quality, fresh from contract over runs. There has never been any M193 produced to NATO spec. So why do you buy XM193 with the NATO bunting? That XM855 without bullet sealant comes from MINNESOTA. Not Missouri. Suckers. This looks like a flame: 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 11:07:54 PM EDT
[#40]
Unless the brass is polished heavily the annealing stains will be there. Half of the brass I bought when I first started loading 223 was LC pull down, factory primed. It works fine but its dirty looking. After going to SS tumbling I have been eyeing the old ammo and want to shoot it to clean it up lol
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 11:18:18 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ah. i only reload pistol but that seems to be quite a big spread of weights, especially for factory ammo Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I pulled all the bullets and they all looked alike in shape. I did not weigh them. The powder in each case (except the first one) was weighed. Without a microscope inspection, the powder all looked the same. See photo below. The low was 23.9 gr. and the high was 25.3 gr. Here are the weights by headstamp: LC02 - 23.9, 24.7 LC03 - 24.9 and one I did not weigh LC04 - 24.7 LC05 - 25.2, 25.3, 24.7, 24.7, 25.3, 24.7 LC06 - 24.8, 25.3, 24.8, 25.1, 24.8, 24.8, 25.0, 24.8 LC07 - 25.0, 53.3 LC12 - 24.8 FC 223 - 24.8 http://i59.tinypic.com/2a5zlgx.jpg we have a winner Whoops, I made an error, it should have been 25.3. Sorry about that. ah. i only reload pistol but that seems to be quite a big spread of weights, especially for factory ammo Those are all different lots of gunpowder with the charge weight adjusted. The difference from high to low is not all that large in any case. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 11:27:21 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are not reloads. ANNEAL MARKS, are you cretins blind? What reloader, commercial or private, has the ability to match the inductive heating that SCAMP has? No flame, short of plasma, can do that Job. And why would a reloader do that? This is craptastic Federal Cartridge ammo made from reclaimed Lake City brass. Brass that was rejected for military ammo. Yet you suckers keep buying into the idea it is quality, fresh from contract over runs. There has never been any M193 produced to NATO spec. So why do you buy XM193 with the NATO bunting? That XM855 without bullet sealant comes from MINNESOTA. Not Missouri. Suckers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would assume there is a pressure spike when that free traveling accelerating projectile meets the rifling. True. If it was set back far enough into the case, could it have yawed in the chamber before getting to the rifling, causing high pressure by slowing the bullet? Another poster in this thread reported having a bulet set back almost all the way to the neck. Guessing. This is craptastic Federal Cartridge ammo made from reclaimed Lake City brass. Brass that was rejected for military ammo. Yet you suckers keep buying into the idea it is quality, fresh from contract over runs. There has never been any M193 produced to NATO spec. So why do you buy XM193 with the NATO bunting? That XM855 without bullet sealant comes from MINNESOTA. Not Missouri. Suckers. Annealing is very common in the reloading field. They sell quite a few annealing products. My local small shop sells custom reloads and anneals as well. Also, I buy factory primed brass regularly (mainly from Wiedners(sp?)) I'm not sure why anyone is a sucker to believe that normal reloaders can't anneal.....I don't always run my brass forever in a tumbler and sometimes the sealant will still be around the primer pocket slightly, and annealing is visible around the neck. I don't know any reloaders that crimp their primers, BUT if you ream instead of swage it will still have some of the edge of the crimping visible. And people irritated with the different "color" powder, its the camera making the shiny powder look like that. And powder isn't completely uniform. It looks OK to me. Almost all of my 6.8 loads are compressed btw and I have to use a drop tube to get the powder in. Bullet setback is not as much of an issue in a rifle vs handgun. Look at this Anyway, beyond the spazzing. If you are using a kinetic puller, could you show us several pulled bullets? I'd like to see if there are mechanical pull marks. I'm betting money that they are reloads, just based off the uniform bullets in different casings. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 11:35:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shoot PSA products at your own risk......  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
This is what happens when you purchase from PSA. Their manufacturing is obviously by a bunch of incompetents, it also explains the very cheap pricing... ETA: You get what you pay for. So, nothing PSA sells is any good?
Shoot PSA products at your own risk...... Asinine and childish posts, but this is GD not the Tech forums. Pull your head from your *third/fourth point of contact. PSA products are GTG, even BCM, LMT, and other high end AR15's have seen these type of failures. * Depends whether your Armor or Airborne, in other words it means your rear end. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/22/2014 11:51:35 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuote History |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 12:11:52 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think it's one of two possibilities, both of which would cause overpressure problems: 1) Rounds were reloads, and one of the cases got a double charge of powder; or 2) Bullet set back into the case during its trip from the mag into the breech. That last one happened to me and I almost didn't catch it. Was using factory ammo at the range, when they called a cease fire for target changing. I had time to fire one more round, but decided to wait, so I pulled back the charging handle to eject the round from the chamber. The bullet was set back so that only 1mm of the nose was above the rim. If I had fired that round, the cartridge case would have separated (best case scenario) or it would have blown up the rifle (worst case). Lets go with "no" for $1000, Alex. 1) With a rifle powder specified for the .223, a double charge means you spill a bunch of powder all over the place. Just about every load out there fills the case up to the shoulder if not a bit higher. Some loads are even compressed. Not enough case volume for a double charge of rifle powder. Pistol powder on the other hand...maybe a possibility if it is a reload. 2) Bullet set back in the .223 is not likely either. The .223 can shoot some REALLY long bullets (which would be like a light bullet set back in the case) at very similar charge weights. If the charge was correct, you might get a little more pressure, but not a sudden catastrophic spike like you get in some pistol rounds. After seeing pictures I'm going with either A) Defective case (i.e. bad luck) B) Reloads with an incorrect powder. I'm leaning towards "B" right now as that ammo looks like it was someone's left over rounds they threw in a box and just gave away as "bulk pack." |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 12:45:39 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lets go with "no" for $1000, Alex. 1) With a rifle powder specified for the .223, a double charge means you spill a bunch of powder all over the place. Just about every load out there fills the case up to the shoulder if not a bit higher. Some loads are even compressed. Not enough case volume for a double charge of rifle powder. Pistol powder on the other hand...maybe a possibility if it is a reload. 2) Bullet set back in the .223 is not likely either. The .223 can shoot some REALLY long bullets (which would be like a light bullet set back in the case) at very similar charge weights. If the charge was correct, you might get a little more pressure, but not a sudden catastrophic spike like you get in some pistol rounds. After seeing pictures I'm going with either A) Defective case (i.e. bad luck) B) Reloads with an incorrect powder. I'm leaning towards "B" right now as that ammo looks like it was someone's left over rounds they threw in a box and just gave away as "bulk pack." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think it's one of two possibilities, both of which would cause overpressure problems: 1) Rounds were reloads, and one of the cases got a double charge of powder; or 2) Bullet set back into the case during its trip from the mag into the breech. That last one happened to me and I almost didn't catch it. Was using factory ammo at the range, when they called a cease fire for target changing. I had time to fire one more round, but decided to wait, so I pulled back the charging handle to eject the round from the chamber. The bullet was set back so that only 1mm of the nose was above the rim. If I had fired that round, the cartridge case would have separated (best case scenario) or it would have blown up the rifle (worst case). Lets go with "no" for $1000, Alex. 1) With a rifle powder specified for the .223, a double charge means you spill a bunch of powder all over the place. Just about every load out there fills the case up to the shoulder if not a bit higher. Some loads are even compressed. Not enough case volume for a double charge of rifle powder. Pistol powder on the other hand...maybe a possibility if it is a reload. 2) Bullet set back in the .223 is not likely either. The .223 can shoot some REALLY long bullets (which would be like a light bullet set back in the case) at very similar charge weights. If the charge was correct, you might get a little more pressure, but not a sudden catastrophic spike like you get in some pistol rounds. After seeing pictures I'm going with either A) Defective case (i.e. bad luck) B) Reloads with an incorrect powder. I'm leaning towards "B" right now as that ammo looks like it was someone's left over rounds they threw in a box and just gave away as "bulk pack." Agreed, too many armchair re-loaders are all to quick to post about bullet set back and double charged loads. LOL If it's factory ammo the owner of the rifle should be on the phone with the factory.... Always question free ammo. AHAHAHHH |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 1:50:42 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
These are not reloads. There is no commercial reloader that neck anneals. This is brass Federal Cartridge obtains through their parent corporation, ATK, that is sourced from ATKs operation at the government owned, contractor operated Lake City Army Ammunition Plant (LCAAP). All ammunition produced by LCAAP is government property, the only way title to such goods can be transferred is through foreign military sales. This is law. Law also has it that only components, minus primers, may be salvaged and sold as scrap, this is handled through the installation's DRMO. Primers and any explosive materials must be rendered inert. Any components over .50 caliber must be mutilated or demiled in accordance with federal regulations. Scrap from LCAAP is handled exactly like fired cartridge cases, also sold through DRMO by their contractor, Government Liquidations. When a commercial reloader processes fired brass, extensive polishing is done. This is why Black Hills blue box is as shiny as a brass bed in a sporting house. Federal Cartridge has been playing the market with their XM line, made using LCAAP produced brass and bullets, making shooters believe it is straight from Missouri when if the purchaser reads the box, comes from Anoka MN. And real M855 doesn't have mixed head stamp dates in each box. There was NEVER a NATO spec for M193, yet the XM193 I have seen comes in NATO stamped brass. A clear sign this isn't LCAAP ammo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm no expert but does this not look like 4 different primers in these? I'm thinking reloads for sure. http://i58.tinypic.com/10xzhcp.jpg Primers look the same... I'm assuming that lighting is changing the color temp of the photo from left to right. What I DO see is that the primer crimp has been removed, which indicates reloaded ammo. Plus, ammo with LC headstamps spanning a 10-year range indicates reloads from bulk surplus brass. I stick by my original hypotheses: bullet setback while round was chambered, OR a double charge of powder by a reloader who wasn't paying attention to what he was doing. All ammunition produced by LCAAP is government property, the only way title to such goods can be transferred is through foreign military sales. This is law. Law also has it that only components, minus primers, may be salvaged and sold as scrap, this is handled through the installation's DRMO. Primers and any explosive materials must be rendered inert. Any components over .50 caliber must be mutilated or demiled in accordance with federal regulations. Scrap from LCAAP is handled exactly like fired cartridge cases, also sold through DRMO by their contractor, Government Liquidations. When a commercial reloader processes fired brass, extensive polishing is done. This is why Black Hills blue box is as shiny as a brass bed in a sporting house. Federal Cartridge has been playing the market with their XM line, made using LCAAP produced brass and bullets, making shooters believe it is straight from Missouri when if the purchaser reads the box, comes from Anoka MN. And real M855 doesn't have mixed head stamp dates in each box. There was NEVER a NATO spec for M193, yet the XM193 I have seen comes in NATO stamped brass. A clear sign this isn't LCAAP ammo. So how does patsreloading.com have new unfired 308 LC US military primed brass for sale right now? I've bought 5.56x45 primed brass (with the crimp still in place) from them before. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 2:00:57 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At 23 grains that case is pretty full. I just can't see it. If they are reloads, I'm voting for some pistol powder mixed in. Guy didn't clean his hopper good, and his first load or two dropped mixed powder. I gotta think 10 grains of H110 mixed in with rifle powder could be pretty rough. THEY SELL PULL DOWN BRASS OMFG!!!! ITS EVEN IN STOCK Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would assume there is a pressure spike when that free traveling accelerating projectile meets the rifling. True. If it was set back far enough into the case, could it have yawed in the chamber before getting to the rifling, causing high pressure by slowing the bullet? Another poster in this thread reported having a bulet set back almost all the way to the neck. Guessing. THEY SELL PULL DOWN BRASS OMFG!!!! ITS EVEN IN STOCK CAN'T BE SO! It even has annealed marks! |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 11:33:19 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are not reloads. ANNEAL MARKS, are you cretins blind? What reloader, commercial or private, has the ability to match the inductive heating that SCAMP has? No flame, short of plasma, can do that Job. And why would a reloader do that? This is craptastic Federal Cartridge ammo made from reclaimed Lake City brass. Brass that was rejected for military ammo. Yet you suckers keep buying into the idea it is quality, fresh from contract over runs. There has never been any M193 produced to NATO spec. So why do you buy XM193 with the NATO bunting? That XM855 without bullet sealant comes from MINNESOTA. Not Missouri. Suckers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would assume there is a pressure spike when that free traveling accelerating projectile meets the rifling. True. If it was set back far enough into the case, could it have yawed in the chamber before getting to the rifling, causing high pressure by slowing the bullet? Another poster in this thread reported having a bulet set back almost all the way to the neck. Guessing. This is craptastic Federal Cartridge ammo made from reclaimed Lake City brass. Brass that was rejected for military ammo. Yet you suckers keep buying into the idea it is quality, fresh from contract over runs. There has never been any M193 produced to NATO spec. So why do you buy XM193 with the NATO bunting? That XM855 without bullet sealant comes from MINNESOTA. Not Missouri. Suckers. Do anneal marks vanish when the round is fired? I'm not a reloader so I'm wondering why annealed XM193 or XM885 once fired brass would not still appear annealed when reloaded? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/23/2014 11:36:22 AM EDT
[#50]
As for anneal marks, here is my FIRST time annealing brass. I could have made them more consistent and lower down if I wanted too... I only used a hand torch, people with fancier setups could easily replicate LC annealing marks.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
