Agreed :D

This isn't hard. You didn't read the thread.
If you don't like the taxes of the nation who's political and social system provided the stability and opportunity for your success you should help fight the forces of liberalism just like those of us who don't own yachts and can't spend half the year at our London flat do.
If someone cuts and runs they are at best a coward and at worst they may be a liberal hypocrite.
That is why I don't support expatriation for the purposes of tax evasion.

Umm, no!

The fuck?

Divorces are ALWAYS more expensive then weddings...

Taxes.

The United States taxes citizens on their worldwide income.
You obviously need income in your new country. You make money that is taxed by the US.
If you refuse to pay them, the US has extradition treaties with a majority of countries regarding tax evasion.

Otherwise, you need to pay expatriation taxes, if they'll even consider your renunciation.

Expat here-  

US legislation has caused US citizens, visa holders, and residents, very serious problems, including me.  The solution is to just deny financial options to these people, get rid of the accounts, or fee the fuck out of them.  

I am fluent in one of the most difficult languages to learn, on top of English.  It pays better to not have any US connections at all now, and is in fact a benefit while being a US citizen, visa holder, or resident, is a liability.  

The US is erecting and enacting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reich_Flight_Tax.  

Does this only include the US, or does this include the nation in which the expatriate resides/lives owns a business, makes a living, etc.?

Ukraine renouced it's USSR citizen ship. In the end it will work as well for them as it did for the brave souls who wanted to break away from the kinder gentler USA 150 years ago.

US. Canada is $100 and a mail-in form.

I see the class-envy is in full swing now. Here is some of the realities that I have to deal with.

I moved here in 2010 because I was offered a job, in my field (IT) at a time when jobs were hard to find, especially in WV. I was also in the process of getting married to a woman from the Philippines who had been living in Europe. After we were married, Canada gave her a visa to join me here for the duration of my work permit (3 years). Total processing time: less than a week from their embassy in Paris, and around $200. Try getting a Filipina a visa to come to the US, especially a spousal visa when married to a US citizen. Takes months and months, and tons of forms and lots of money. In fact, we tried and failed twice to get her a simple US visitor's visa so she could come with me to visit and meet my family. Spent well over $1000 and lots of time just to be denied. The US finally gave her a visitor's visa once we became Canadian permanent residents.

I make upper-middle five-figures as a salary, no where near six-figures. My wife works on a production line, six days a week to make money to help take care of her family back home, plus to pay our bills here. We are in no way a couple of fat cats portrayed by the MSM.

Here are the things the US government says that I MUST do or face their wrath, even though every dime I make is earned in Canada, and I own no property in the US:
- File a 1040 and other forms yearly. This includes informing them of my residential address and telephone number, and the address and telephone number of my employer.
- File a FBAR report online each year by June 30, reporting ALL the details of any bank account, investment account, life insurance policy, etc. which is valued at or above $10K at any time during the year.
- Comply with new FATCA regulations, which means supplying my bank (if asked) with certification that I am a US person, and furnishing them with my SSN. The bank then relays this info, including my account balances and transaction history, to the IRS.

Simple mistakes on these forms carry a starting penalty of $10K, and only go up from there.

Here are the things the US government is either outright preventing me from doing, or making so difficult and onerous that I give up and not do them:
- Own more than 10 percent of a corporation here in Canada, even a small family business. The US will then consider it a US controlled foreign corporation. This requires annual tax filings by that corporation that are beyond intrusive in their scope. Not to mention the expense of hiring a cross-border tax specialist to wade through the mess.
- Own a sole-proprietorship. Unlike having a business in the US, they consider a business here to be foreign. I would be taxed on my profit by Canada, just like I would if I lived in the US. But since it's a "foreign" business, the US will then tax me on REVENUE. So essentially I can never own a business as long as I live outside of the borders of the US as a US citizen.
- Open a local bank account for checking or savings. Even though it's the TD bank down the street, the US considers it a "foreign" bank, and FATCA requirements come into play. Banks are now (if they are complying) asking for US indicia before opening an account. Some banks, notably in Europe, are refusing to open accounts for Americans, and closing the ones they currently have. Including mortgages.
- Sell my primary home here without paying an assload of taxes to the US government. Like in the US, capital gains have an exemption level in Canada. BUT, the US doesn't exempt ANY capital gains realized on "foreign" real estate. So I'd be on the hook for the full fare if I realized a gain in my home (which I haven't bought yet, I'm just a lowly renter for almost 5 years now). Oh, and that also includes the 3.9 or whatever percent Obamacare tax I would have to pay as well.

A citizen of any other country can move here, get permanent residence, and eventually Canadian citizenship. Their birth country essentially gives them a fare-thee-well and never hears from them again. Americans who move outside the borders of the USA can count on a lifetime of annual paperwork, forms, fees, headaches and reporting every minutiae of their life back to Mordor. Not to mention the nagging fear that somewhere somehow they made a mistake on one of these numerous forms and will be subjected to the wrath of the US government.

But the biggest loss is the loss of opportunity, and of living your overseas life in a sort of shackles, not being able to live up to your potential.

Some people would then tell me "well, you should just move back to the USA then." Well, then what? That would require me to find a job. Those are still hard to find. If my job did not provide health coverage (it sounds like a lot of the will not) I have to provide it for ourselves at an exorbitant price. Last time I checked before I moved here, coverage for me and my wife would have been over $1200 per month. That's more than a mortgage plus utilities. And don't forget the escalating penalties if you don't have coverage. And the bankrupting costs of even simple medical care.

Plus, getting my wife there with me would take six months to a year probably to process a spousal visa, and thousands of dollars in expenses.

And most importantly, why on Earth would I willingly move back into a rapidly-developing police state?

What if I told you, this is no longer America?

 

Cause they (government) hates freedom.

 

And they want to stay that way. That's why they are leaving.



I guess they see the writing on the wall.

Great post but I fear it will fall on deaf ears.

And how is this fighting going for the military, business's, and every other productive citizen?



The leeches are now in charge. Fighting gave us Obama.
I had no idea about these tax laws and how they differ from other countries. Apparently our immigration system favors deadbeats coming in, but those that could actually contribute, both in taxation and production, are punished.

excellent example. Creed doesn't even know what his job is. The others around him are the ones that do the work.
Good find. For this thread anyway.

Wow. more parallels.

This is very true.  For example, I have a friend from South Africa who was interested in immigrating to the US due to the declining situation in SA.  This man has two culinary degrees and has worked not only in major restaurants but also worked in Iraq running a DFAC (C2) for the US Army.  He has a substantial bank account both from his family's business and his own savings and he would like to open a restaurant in the US- which would obviously serve Americans and provide American jobs.  Unfortunately for him, he's of Dutch ancestry so he's white.  He eventually gave up trying and became an Australian citizen.  Contrast that to the millions sweeping across our southern border or most anyone else from anywhere else in Africa.    

Or they have worked all their lives and are tired of being tied to a post to be fleeced for political gain.

Expatriation does not always mean "renouncement" of citizenship.  The author of that article is an idiot.  

Some of you are mistaken how some corporate taxes work.

If I own a percentage in a business headquartered here in the US I pay taxes on that fraction of the income according to my fraction of ownership.

I would pay this regardless if I were a US Citizen, a US Citizen living abroad, or a Not-US-Citizen.


Also, if the company is deemed "US headquartered or owned" or whatever then the company pays taxes on it's business dealings of subsidiaries etc that exist wholly in other countries.  AND, I am personally responsible for those taxes.



It's not quite that simple obviously - i'm not a tax guy.  But I do own a very small percentage of voting shares in a private multi-national partnership.  Dealing with that BS every tax season is a PITA.

They are not the same thing, not even close. You are comparing apples and oranges.

10'er

As it should be.

 










 

Well one's about controlling who goes out and one is about controlling who gets in. I'm sure we can trust the gov't to only use them for the correct purpose.

 




 

Hundreds of thousands if not millions of parasites enter illegally.

Several thousand producers leave.

Which one gets the attention of the Feds? Which ones are rewarded? Which are vilified?

Rather telling, isn't it?

In before "that's different" and "can't happen here."

A country that was founded on a hatred of taxes creates one of the most insane tax regimes in the world - AND taxes its people on work they do outside its own borders.

What the actual fuck?

Living in a small country with low government overhead makes sense once you aren't poor anymore.

 

shouldn't it be free for someone to renounce their citizenship? I mean I dont give two fucks about someone who wants to leave having to pay an exit fee.

Despite what the media and politicians like to pretend, most of these people are not renouncing and expatriating to avoid taxes. It is because it has become such a damn pain in the ass to keep up with reporting and filing requirements that they believe they are putting themselves, their families, and way of life at risk by keeping their citizenship. These are people that do not have a team of attorneys and an accounting firm on retainer to keep them out of trouble. They don't have a list of banks waiting to help legally manage every nuance of their assests. Instead, they look at the costs of compliance and the absurd penalties that can result from even an honest mistake and simply say "F* this."

There's far more to it than the fees.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expatriation_tax#United_States



 

So, if you want to be a US citizen, you need to surrender your money?     Does that include illegals from Mexico, et al?   What is this ethics of which you speak?

I'm wondering which it is; we've only had _A few members who were in favor of bigger government.  

Because the US lays claim to a portion of your income, forever, regardless of where you live or where you earn it.    They're also shaking down anyone leaving.

It basically boils down to neo-feudalism and serfdom.   It's no longer possible to own property without paying the government every year, and they claim a cut of your earnings forever.


You can no longer simply own some land, work it, and mind your own business.  Either you pay off the state or they seize it.   If you move somewhere else you either have to pay up indefinitely or become a fugitive, or pay up and go through the renunciation process under the presumption of being guilty of tax evasion.

 

WTF is so ethical about being robbed at gunpoint that you would stick around while it happens and tell yourself it is for your own good?

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You spelled fee wrong.

I think it is repulsive that most of you are so greedy and selfish that you would rather split from the most blessed nation to ever exist and watch it rot while you jet around the world than use that wealth to work and protect and rekindle the freedom that is integral to this nation. You would shit on your fellow Americans and the future generations to save a buck. I have to hand it to the Liberals who are wealthy because even though they cheat they still work towards their ideals. You bunch of cowards would have turned on George Washington if you were offered a nice parcel of land by the British.

The moral answers aren't determined by killing ones own people. The North was wrong to attack the South simply for declaring independence. The fact that the North won changes nothing morally.

By the same standard, the British were wrong to attack the colonies simply for declaring independence.