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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:45:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would return it because it is the moral thing to do based simply on my personal opinion. OK, let me try... I would return the money because I would empathize with the person who lost it. There are very, very few people in this world who wouldn't shit and freak out if they lost that much money. If I lost $5,000, just left it sitting on a bench, I would probably freak out 8 ways from Sunday. Might bust out crying like baby. Getting their money back to them would probably be pretty damn near miraculous for them. Doesn't matter who they are or what they need the money for, or how much money they have. And to be honest, it really doesn't matter how much money is in the purse. Could be $5, could be no money at all. Maybe just getting the purse back would make them happy. Maybe getting their drivers license back would make them happy. I wouldn't do it because I would be afraid that Jesus is watching, or because I thought maybe by doing something nice then maybe someone would do something nice for me. I would do it because it might be a chance for me to help make someone's shitty day better. No "Shoulder Jesus" here... |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:46:46 PM EDT
[#2]
does the money belong to you ? no so IT IS stealing. i would return because that is the damn right thing to do. if i was ever dumb enough to leave that kind of cash somewhere i would hope it would be returned to me, although i also hope i would never be that dumb or absent minded.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:46:52 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That surprises me about you. Not saying that it makes you a bad person, but I am surprised by it. It's either mine, or it isn't mine. Someone else's "feelings" really isn't part of the evaluation for me. I don't really care much about their feelings during the decision of what to do with the money. I might care later, when I see it. But up front it has no bearing on my decision. Stealing from someone who doesn't really give a shit and has plenty to go around..... is still stealing. Using how someone else might "feel" sounds like a slippery slope to start justification of robbing assholes. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:53:09 PM EDT
[#4]
I can say for a fact I would return it ASAP.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:54:19 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's either mine, or it isn't mine. Someone else's "feelings" really isn't part of the evaluation for me. I don't really care much about their feelings during the decision of what to do with the money. I might care later, when I see it. But up front it has no bearing on my decision. Stealing from someone who doesn't really give a shit and has plenty to go around..... is still stealing. Using how someone else might "feel" sounds like a slippery slope to start justification of robbing assholes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That surprises me about you. Not saying that it makes you a bad person, but I am surprised by it. It's either mine, or it isn't mine. Someone else's "feelings" really isn't part of the evaluation for me. I don't really care much about their feelings during the decision of what to do with the money. I might care later, when I see it. But up front it has no bearing on my decision. Stealing from someone who doesn't really give a shit and has plenty to go around..... is still stealing. Using how someone else might "feel" sounds like a slippery slope to start justification of robbing assholes. Interesting. To me, saying 'I wouldn't do it because it's stealing' opens the door to rationalizations. Is it really stealing now that I'm sitting here, worrying about how to pay for my new transmission? When I was a kid, my parents used the phrase "put yourself in their shoes" all the time. I think of how I might feel if someone did whatever to me all the time when I make interpersonal decisions. To me it seems like the purest motivation, if I must say so. Even if the person turns out to be bad or ungrateful, it doesn't matter to me. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I may not consider myself a Christian, but I consider that to be a good guiding principle. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:55:35 PM EDT
[#6]
Make every effort to get it back to its owner
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:56:20 PM EDT
[#7]
I'd return it because I know it is the right thing to do. It doesn't matter if I would get caught if I kept it. It wouldn't matter how much I could use it. I know what is right and that is what I would do. After wrestling temptation....
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:56:49 PM EDT
[#8]
I'd return it, but I'd have fun with it. Like taking the money to the bank and changing it into totally different denominations, or maybe an obscure foreign currency.
It would be a good life lesson for them, when they're about to leave some place, they'll automatically think, "I'd better make sure I have my purse with me, last time I left it somewhere I got it back full of Icelandic króna." Bam! Never lose their purse again. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:59:32 PM EDT
[#9]
Is it a nice purse?
oh wait...
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:00:54 PM EDT
[#10]
It's not mine.
"Do unto others" If I lost $5k I'd want someone who's honest to return it. Why not be that person for someone else? http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/dairy-queen-worker-confronts-woman-blind-man-money-article-1.1460961 seems relevant. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:01:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because I am taking Ethics this semester and I want to know what motivates people to be honest. God? Fear? Desire to do good things? Doing right is it's own reward? Or are you just doing what you were raised to do and don't really know or care why? Ethics, huh? Start reading up on various moral philosophies: moral relativism, utilitarianism, nihilism, categorical and hypothetical imperatives. See the following to get started: Immanuel Kant John Stuart Mill Jeremy Bentham Friedrich Nietzsche BTW, my first undergraduate was in philosophy. 
If you really want to find the ultimate source of human morality, you should look at the culture and social conditioning of the person coupled with their individual experiences in life. Take a guess what else I majored in... 
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:02:28 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Let's say you find a purse. It is sitting on a bench all by itself and no one is around. You open the purse and find a driver's license with the owner's address and you find $5,000 in cash. You can take the money and no one will ever know that it was you. Let's just go ahead and say that it is dishonest to keep the money. But, there is no chance that you will ever get caught, you're technically not stealing and who couldn't use $5,000? So, do you keep the money, or do you return it to the owner? If you return it, then why do you return it? 
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:03:08 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Weeping Jesus on the cross! Go find a fart jokes thread, yeah? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How is taking $5,000 that is not yours NOT stealing?   Weeping Jesus on the cross! Go find a fart jokes thread, yeah? How the fuck do you figure taking something that is not yours is ok? The purse does not belong to you. If you take something out of the purse, you are taking something that does not belong to you, that's stealing something from someone else. Why is this a question?
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:04:49 PM EDT
[#14]
OP returns it or keeps and suffers a horrible death at his own hand. Scumbag.........
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:04:49 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How the fuck do you figure taking something that is not yours is ok? The purse does not belong to you. If you take something out of the purse, you are taking something that does not belong to you, that's stealing something from someone else. Why is this a question? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is taking $5,000 that is not yours NOT stealing? Weeping Jesus on the cross! Go find a fart jokes thread, yeah? How the fuck do you figure taking something that is not yours is ok? The purse does not belong to you. If you take something out of the purse, you are taking something that does not belong to you, that's stealing something from someone else. Why is this a question? I think that his true motive is to find out how people justify or legitimize their beliefs and actions. Possibly. 
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:08:28 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think that his true motive is to find out how people justify or legitimize their beliefs and actions. Possibly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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How is taking $5,000 that is not yours NOT stealing? Weeping Jesus on the cross! Go find a fart jokes thread, yeah? How the fuck do you figure taking something that is not yours is ok? The purse does not belong to you. If you take something out of the purse, you are taking something that does not belong to you, that's stealing something from someone else. Why is this a question? I think that his true motive is to find out how people justify or legitimize their beliefs and actions. Possibly. I guess. Maybe I'm not understanding what OP is going for here. But I'm surprised to say the least. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:12:22 PM EDT
[#17]
you return the fucking purse and all contents. about 5 years ago i found a camera under a coat sitting on a picnic table at a local caving place. called the number on the dog tag attatched to it(great idea), family was visiting from several states away for their daughters college graduation. they didnt give two shits about the camera, even though it was a very nice nikon($500+), they were mostly worried about the memories on the SD card. they sent a prepaid box and 50 bux for me.
came around to me earlier this year. lost my wallet at the local lake, full of cash and cards. called there looking for it and they had it. turned in with all contents intact and accounted for. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:13:51 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How the fuck do you figure taking something that is not yours is ok? The purse does not belong to you. If you take something out of the purse, you are taking something that does not belong to you, that's stealing something from someone else. Why is this a question? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: How is taking $5,000 that is not yours NOT stealing? Weeping Jesus on the cross! Go find a fart jokes thread, yeah? How the fuck do you figure taking something that is not yours is ok? The purse does not belong to you. If you take something out of the purse, you are taking something that does not belong to you, that's stealing something from someone else. Why is this a question? I didn't say it was OK. I NEVER said it was OK. I said that in my scenario it's not stealing. But OK, I'll play MY game by your rules (since you obviously can't play by mine). Why is stealing wrong? Is it because stealing us illegal and the cops will put you in jail if you get caught stealing? Is it bad because Jesus doesn't want you to steal? Is it wrong because your papa always aid that you should never steal? Why is it wrong to steal? If someone has something that you want or need, then why shouldn't you take it? Explain to me why you believe stealing is bad. There, happy? Now we're playing by your rules.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:14:11 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
I guess. Maybe I'm not understanding what OP is going for here. But I'm surprised to say the least. I'm guessing that he created a deliberately controversial and antagonizing scenario to elicit responses from members. Well, at least only 9.9% of AR15.com is willing to screw you over...
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:18:22 PM EDT
[#20]
Anyone that keeps the money is a douche.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:19:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Return it because it is the right thing to do.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:35:35 PM EDT
[#22]
Return it because I'm not a thieving piece of shit.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:47:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't say it was OK. I NEVER said it was OK. I said that in my scenario it's not stealing. But OK, I'll play MY game by your rules (since you obviously can't play by mine). Why is stealing wrong? Is it because stealing us illegal and the cops will put you in jail if you get caught stealing? Is it bad because Jesus doesn't want you to steal? Is it wrong because your papa always aid that you should never steal? Why is it wrong to steal? If someone has something that you want or need, then why shouldn't you take it? Explain to me why you believe stealing is bad. There, happy? Now we're playing by your rules. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is taking $5,000 that is not yours NOT stealing? Weeping Jesus on the cross! Go find a fart jokes thread, yeah? How the fuck do you figure taking something that is not yours is ok? The purse does not belong to you. If you take something out of the purse, you are taking something that does not belong to you, that's stealing something from someone else. Why is this a question? I didn't say it was OK. I NEVER said it was OK. I said that in my scenario it's not stealing. But OK, I'll play MY game by your rules (since you obviously can't play by mine). Why is stealing wrong? Is it because stealing us illegal and the cops will put you in jail if you get caught stealing? Is it bad because Jesus doesn't want you to steal? Is it wrong because your papa always aid that you should never steal? Why is it wrong to steal? If someone has something that you want or need, then why shouldn't you take it? Explain to me why you believe stealing is bad. There, happy? Now we're playing by your rules. By your rules? By your rules it is stealing. You find a purse. You are supposedly a man, and not gay(supposedly) so don't carry a purse. So we assume the purse is not yours. You look in said purse and find $5,000. Is that your $5,000? No. It's not. So if you take that $5,000, out of a purse which does not belong to you, then that is stealing.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:48:23 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm guessing that he created a deliberately controversial and antagonizing scenario to elicit responses from members. Well, at least only 9.9% of AR15.com is willing to screw you over... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I guess. Maybe I'm not understanding what OP is going for here. But I'm surprised to say the least. I'm guessing that he created a deliberately controversial and antagonizing scenario to elicit responses from members. Well, at least only 9.9% of AR15.com is willing to screw you over... I guess. I'll just go pour another drink. Fuck common sense. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:51:08 PM EDT
[#25]
I would return it because it is stealing. It belongs to someone else. Besides karma is a bitch!
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:52:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't say it was OK. I NEVER said it was OK. I said that in my scenario it's not stealing. But OK, I'll play MY game by your rules (since you obviously can't play by mine). Why is stealing wrong? Is it because stealing us illegal and the cops will put you in jail if you get caught stealing? Is it bad because Jesus doesn't want you to steal? Is it wrong because your papa always aid that you should never steal? Why is it wrong to steal? If someone has something that you want or need, then why shouldn't you take it? Explain to me why you believe stealing is bad. There, happy? Now we're playing by your rules. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is taking $5,000 that is not yours NOT stealing? Weeping Jesus on the cross! Go find a fart jokes thread, yeah? How the fuck do you figure taking something that is not yours is ok? The purse does not belong to you. If you take something out of the purse, you are taking something that does not belong to you, that's stealing something from someone else. Why is this a question? I didn't say it was OK. I NEVER said it was OK. I said that in my scenario it's not stealing. But OK, I'll play MY game by your rules (since you obviously can't play by mine). Why is stealing wrong? Is it because stealing us illegal and the cops will put you in jail if you get caught stealing? Is it bad because Jesus doesn't want you to steal? Is it wrong because your papa always aid that you should never steal? Why is it wrong to steal? If someone has something that you want or need, then why shouldn't you take it? Explain to me why you believe stealing is bad. There, happy? Now we're playing by your rules. If you need me to explain why stealing is bad you've got more problems then I'm qualified to help you with. I've worked for and earned everything I have. Finding $5,000 on the side of the road or in some random magically found "purse" doesn't mean I made $5,000. That's not my money. That's someone else's $5,000. I'm not sure how they came into the said $5,000, but whatever they did to get it is not my concern, as that money isn't mine. If I take it I'm stealing it. I'm taking something from someone else that I didn't earn or make on my own. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:53:22 PM EDT
[#27]
My wife dropped $100 bucks at a liquor store, and some lady picked it up and stole it 5 mins later saying it was hers. The girl whole stole the moneys husband even asked her when did she get $100 bucks.
It was a bad day, and the cameras went working either. My wife is a honest girl, but looses everything all the time. I would not take 100,000 that was not mine cause that is some big karma coming back to me. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:59:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Let's say you find a purse. It is sitting on a bench all by itself and no one is around. You open the purse and find a driver's license with the owner's address and you find $5,000 in cash. You can take the money and no one will ever know that it was you. Let's just go ahead and say that it is dishonest to keep the money. But, there is no chance that you will ever get caught, you're technically not stealing and who couldn't use $5,000? So, do you keep the money, or do you return it to the owner? If you return it, then why do you return it? Wat?? You found it. You didn't grab it from her and run. It's my scenario and if I say you're not stealing then you're not stealing...and I say you're not stealing. The Foot has spoken! Ethics course? That explains a lot. University philosophy departments are a jobs program for philosophy grad students to keep them off the street. Work on this phrase: "WHY do you want fries with that?" There is inherent value in not stealing. Your professor/TA will try to persuade that this is not true. Refer back to my jobs program comment. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 10:00:56 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess. I'll just go pour another drink. Fuck common sense. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I guess. Maybe I'm not understanding what OP is going for here. But I'm surprised to say the least. I'm guessing that he created a deliberately controversial and antagonizing scenario to elicit responses from members. Well, at least only 9.9% of AR15.com is willing to screw you over... I guess. I'll just go pour another drink. Fuck common sense. I'll drink to that!
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Posted: 8/26/2014 10:21:29 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you need me to explain why stealing is bad you've got more problems then I'm qualified to help you with. I've worked for and earned everything I have. Finding $5,000 on the side of the road or in some random magically found "purse" doesn't mean I made $5,000. That's not my money. That's someone else's $5,000. I'm not sure how they came into the said $5,000, but whatever they did to get it is not my concern, as that money isn't mine. If I take it I'm stealing it. I'm taking something from someone else that I didn't earn or make on my own. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How is taking $5,000 that is not yours NOT stealing? Weeping Jesus on the cross! Go find a fart jokes thread, yeah? How the fuck do you figure taking something that is not yours is ok? The purse does not belong to you. If you take something out of the purse, you are taking something that does not belong to you, that's stealing something from someone else. Why is this a question? I didn't say it was OK. I NEVER said it was OK. I said that in my scenario it's not stealing. But OK, I'll play MY game by your rules (since you obviously can't play by mine). Why is stealing wrong? Is it because stealing us illegal and the cops will put you in jail if you get caught stealing? Is it bad because Jesus doesn't want you to steal? Is it wrong because your papa always aid that you should never steal? Why is it wrong to steal? If someone has something that you want or need, then why shouldn't you take it? Explain to me why you believe stealing is bad. There, happy? Now we're playing by your rules. If you need me to explain why stealing is bad you've got more problems then I'm qualified to help you with. I've worked for and earned everything I have. Finding $5,000 on the side of the road or in some random magically found "purse" doesn't mean I made $5,000. That's not my money. That's someone else's $5,000. I'm not sure how they came into the said $5,000, but whatever they did to get it is not my concern, as that money isn't mine. If I take it I'm stealing it. I'm taking something from someone else that I didn't earn or make on my own. Yep, you DEFINITELY belong in the fart jokes thread. I don't need you to explain to me why stealing is wrong. I know why I believe that stealing is wrong, so asking myself why I believe that stealing is wrong is pointless. I want you to explain to me why YOU think stealing is wrong. What motivates you not to steal? Stealing could benefit you. If you're a good enough thief then you can get very rich, and even become powerful! Why would you not want to be rich and powerful? Because getting rich and powerful by stealing is wrong? Why is it wrong? Do you not steal because you were raised to believe that stealing is bad? Do you not steal because you believe that God is taking account of all of your actions will one day make you explain them in order to determine whether you spend eternity in heaven or hell? Do you not steal because you're afraid of getting in trouble for stealing? |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 10:24:09 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, do you keep the money, or do you return it to the owner? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Let's say you find a purse. It is sitting on a bench all by itself and no one is around. You open the purse and find a driver's license with the owner's address and you find $5,000 in cash. You can take the money and no one will ever know that it was you. Let's just go ahead and say that it is dishonest to keep the money. But, there is no chance that you will ever get caught, you're technically not stealing and who couldn't use $5,000? So, do you keep the money, or do you return it to the owner? If you return it, then why do you return it? Wat?? You found it. You didn't grab it from her and run. It's my scenario and if I say you're not stealing then you're not stealing...and I say you're not stealing. The Foot has spoken! Ethics course? That explains a lot. University philosophy departments are a jobs program for philosophy grad students to keep them off the street. Work on this phrase: "WHY do you want fries with that?" There is inherent value in not stealing. Your professor/TA will try to persuade that this is not true. Refer back to my jobs program comment.  |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 10:27:43 PM EDT
[#32]
I would do what I would want someone else to do if I put my head in my ass and left five grand sitting on a park bench. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 10:32:21 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess. I'll just go pour another drink. Fuck common sense. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I guess. Maybe I'm not understanding what OP is going for here. But I'm surprised to say the least. I'm guessing that he created a deliberately controversial and antagonizing scenario to elicit responses from members. Well, at least only 9.9% of AR15.com is willing to screw you over... I guess. I'll just go pour another drink. Fuck common sense. Is it common sense? If it were common sense then why would we need to put locks on our doors, keep our money in banks and carry firearms to protect ourselves? There are millions and millions of people who believe that lying, cheating and stealing are perfectly acceptable ways of getting what they want. Some of them are not very good at it, so they wind up robbing liquor stores and getting killed or going to prison. Some of them are very good at it and they wind up running multi-national corporations or getting elected to public office. Also, if you just don't steal because it's common sense that stealing is wrong, then what do you know about yourself? How can you consider yourself to be free, or even free thinking is you don't understand why you do or don't do the things that you do or don't do? How can you know if your actions are more or less just or reasonable than the actions of someone who does the opposite of what you do? What makes you better than the brain washed North Koreans who cry over Dear Leader because they were told that Dear Leader was a great man who made them prosperous, powerful, safe and free? What makes you better than the Jihadis who kill because they were told that killing is the will of Allah and that if the want to go to heaven then they should do as Allah commands? |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 10:34:42 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it were common sense then why would we need to put locks on our doors, keep our money in banks and carry firearms to protect ourselves? There are millions and millions of people who believe that lying, cheating and stealing are perfectly acceptable ways of getting what they want. Some of them are not very good at it, so they wind up robbing liquor stores and getting killed or going to prison. Some of them are very good at it and they wind up running multi-national corporations or getting elected to public office. Also, if you just don't steal because it's common sense that stealing is wrong, then what do you know about yourself? How can you consider yourself to be free, or even free thinking is you don't understand why you do or don't do the things that you do or don't do? How can you know if your actions are more or less just or reasonable than the actions of someone who does the opposite of what you do? What makes you better than the brain washed North Koreans who cry over Dear Leader because they were told that Dear Leader was a great man who made them prosperous, powerful, safe and free? What makes you better than the Jihadis who kill because they were told that killing is the will of Allah and that if the want to go to heaven then they should do as Allah commands? You should take some sociology courses, too.
ETA: I've never taken it, but criminal psychology might offer insights as well. ETA 2: Also, take some cultural anthropology courses with a regional focus on somewhere like the Mediterranean or the Middle East...you'll find a completely different standard on morality and property rights. ETA 3: Basically, there are many different reasons for morality, or lack thereof, in our species... It is highly varied and often subjective.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 10:36:31 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: You can say whatever you want. That doesn't make it so, i.e. "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Let's say you find a purse. It is sitting on a bench all by itself and no one is around. You open the purse and find a driver's license with the owner's address and you find $5,000 in cash. You can take the money and no one will ever know that it was you. Let's just go ahead and say that it is dishonest to keep the money. But, there is no chance that you will ever get caught, you're technically not stealing and who couldn't use $5,000? So, do you keep the money, or do you return it to the owner? If you return it, then why do you return it? Wat?? You found it. You didn't grab it from her and run. It's my scenario and if I say you're not stealing then you're not stealing...and I say you're not stealing. The Foot has spoken! Ethics course? That explains a lot. University philosophy departments are a jobs program for philosophy grad students to keep them off the street. Work on this phrase: "WHY do you want fries with that?" There is inherent value in not stealing. Your professor/TA will try to persuade that this is not true. Refer back to my jobs program comment. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 10:38:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You can say whatever you want. That doesn't make it so, i.e. "Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining." Ethics course? That explains a lot. University philosophy departments are a jobs program for philosophy grad students to keep them off the street. Work on this phrase: "WHY do you want fries with that?" There is inherent value in not stealing. Your professor/TA will try to persuade that this is not true. Refer back to my jobs program comment. Your ignorance refutes itself. I'm not going to college because I want to get a better job. I'm going to college because I want to complete something that I started and never finished, and because I want to obtain knowledge. I am not taking Ethics and did not take Philosophy because I want to be a philosopher, I took it because I needed an elective and found the topic to be interesting. I am not in the least bit worried about my professor or TA trying to convince me of anything. I know what I believe to be true, I know why I believe it to be true and I know when someone is trying to sell me a bill of goods. So, there is no need for me to refute anything you said. It's all completely laughable. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 10:39:27 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you take it, and it isn't yours, you are stealing. You know it belongs to someone else. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 10:44:27 PM EDT
[#38]
The Karma one....
But Karma is not a 'punishment' thing asso often thought about. Karma really means, that your actions define your environment. If you take the money, then you take your society one more person closer to being a place where taking money being an acceptable thing. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 10:48:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How the fuck do you figure taking something that is not yours is ok? The purse does not belong to you. If you take something out of the purse, you are taking something that does not belong to you, that's stealing something from someone else. Why is this a question? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is taking $5,000 that is not yours NOT stealing? Weeping Jesus on the cross! Go find a fart jokes thread, yeah? How the fuck do you figure taking something that is not yours is ok? The purse does not belong to you. If you take something out of the purse, you are taking something that does not belong to you, that's stealing something from someone else. Why is this a question? I think what the OP is trying to ask is: "Why is stealing wrong to you?"...but thought an illustrated example would be easier for people to grasp. ETA: Never mind--exhaustively covered! |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 10:48:14 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You should take some sociology courses, too. ETA: I've never taken it, but criminal psychology might offer insights as well. ETA 2: Also, take some cultural anthropology courses with a regional focus on somewhere like the Mediterranean or the Middle East...you'll find a completely different standard on morality and property rights. ETA 3: Basically, there are many different reasons for morality, or lack thereof, in our species... It is highly varied and often subjective. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If it were common sense then why would we need to put locks on our doors, keep our money in banks and carry firearms to protect ourselves? There are millions and millions of people who believe that lying, cheating and stealing are perfectly acceptable ways of getting what they want. Some of them are not very good at it, so they wind up robbing liquor stores and getting killed or going to prison. Some of them are very good at it and they wind up running multi-national corporations or getting elected to public office. Also, if you just don't steal because it's common sense that stealing is wrong, then what do you know about yourself? How can you consider yourself to be free, or even free thinking is you don't understand why you do or don't do the things that you do or don't do? How can you know if your actions are more or less just or reasonable than the actions of someone who does the opposite of what you do? What makes you better than the brain washed North Koreans who cry over Dear Leader because they were told that Dear Leader was a great man who made them prosperous, powerful, safe and free? What makes you better than the Jihadis who kill because they were told that killing is the will of Allah and that if the want to go to heaven then they should do as Allah commands? You should take some sociology courses, too. ETA: I've never taken it, but criminal psychology might offer insights as well. ETA 2: Also, take some cultural anthropology courses with a regional focus on somewhere like the Mediterranean or the Middle East...you'll find a completely different standard on morality and property rights. ETA 3: Basically, there are many different reasons for morality, or lack thereof, in our species... It is highly varied and often subjective. It's an interesting topic. Why do people do the things that they do? Why do bad people do bad things? Why do good people do bad things? To me the explanation that "They're Evil!" is just too simplistic. They're evil? The Devil made you do it? Superstitious hogwash. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 10:49:06 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think what the OP is trying to ask is: "Why is stealing wrong to you?"...but thought an illustrated example would be easier for people to grasp. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: How is taking $5,000 that is not yours NOT stealing? Weeping Jesus on the cross! Go find a fart jokes thread, yeah? How the fuck do you figure taking something that is not yours is ok? The purse does not belong to you. If you take something out of the purse, you are taking something that does not belong to you, that's stealing something from someone else. Why is this a question? I think what the OP is trying to ask is: "Why is stealing wrong to you?"...but thought an illustrated example would be easier for people to grasp. Turns out he was very, very wrong! I didn't want to look at if from the perspective of stealing either, because that brings in the question of fear of punishment. There are lots of people who don't do bad things because they're afraid that they'll get caught and be punished. They are what we would outwardly consider to be good people, because they don't do bad things...but if their sole motivation for not doing bad things is fear of getting caught and punished, then are they truly good people? If you don't steal because you're afraid that you'll go to jail for stealing, then are you a good person? What about when you remove the prospect of going to jail, or remove the punishment aspect? Also, as I have learned now, there are some people who wouldn't keep the money because it's stealing and stealing is wrong. They don't know why stealing is wrong, they just know that stealing is wrong and therefore they don't steal. They don't understand their actions (or inactions) they just do (or don't do) them. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 10:59:08 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Turns out he was very, very wrong! I'm not college educated, so I didn't get what you were driving at. It is an interesting thing that I hadn't really thought too much about. I guess when you get down to it, I'm not driven by anything so much as how I'm regarded by my fellow men. I want to be thought of as a good person, an honest person, a man to be trusted, admired, and respected. In my mind, I can see a society populated by a people who share similar values, and that is a place that I would want to live. I can also see a place where theft, lying, cowardice, and general boorishness is what is regarded as best in man. That isn't a place I'd like to live, and don't think I could be that way. So...Karma? I want to live in a place where qualities such as truth, logic, property rights, bravery, honor, and kindness are esteemed. In order to live in a place like that, I have to have those same qualities. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 11:03:36 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Let's say you find a purse. It is sitting on a bench all by itself and no one is around. You open the purse and find a driver's license with the owner's address and you find $5,000 in cash. You can take the money and no one will ever know that it was you. Let's just go ahead and say that it is dishonest to keep the money. But, there is no chance that you will ever get caught, you're technically not stealing and who couldn't use $5,000? So, do you keep the money, or do you return it to the owner? If you return it, then why do you return it? Why do you say "technically not stealing?" If you know the rightful owner and can contact her, why is it not stealing? I'm not saying I would not be tempted... but like I told my boss when I got hired: " I won't sell myself cheaply, and by the time you're talking real money, you're also talking about serious jail time." I'd like to think that the owner of the purse would do the same if she found my wallet. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 11:07:29 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not college educated, so I didn't get what you were driving at. It is an interesting thing that I hadn't really thought too much about. I guess when you get down to it, I'm not driven by anything so much as how I'm regarded by my fellow men. I want to be thought of as a good person, an honest person, a man to be trusted, admired, and respected. In my mind, I can see a society populated by a people who share similar values, and that is a place that I would want to live. I can also see a place where theft, lying, cowardice, and general boorishness is what is regarded as best in man. That isn't a place I'd like to live, and don't think I could be that way. So...Karma? I want to live in a place where qualities such as truth, logic, property rights, bravery, honor, and kindness are esteemed. In order to live in a place like that, I have to have those same qualities. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Turns out he was very, very wrong! I'm not college educated, so I didn't get what you were driving at. It is an interesting thing that I hadn't really thought too much about. I guess when you get down to it, I'm not driven by anything so much as how I'm regarded by my fellow men. I want to be thought of as a good person, an honest person, a man to be trusted, admired, and respected. In my mind, I can see a society populated by a people who share similar values, and that is a place that I would want to live. I can also see a place where theft, lying, cowardice, and general boorishness is what is regarded as best in man. That isn't a place I'd like to live, and don't think I could be that way. So...Karma? I want to live in a place where qualities such as truth, logic, property rights, bravery, honor, and kindness are esteemed. In order to live in a place like that, I have to have those same qualities. And I think that is completely reasonable. I think it goes to the golden rule which I mentioned I also believe in; do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I'm not looking to pass judgement on other people's motivations or what they believe is right or wrong, or why they believe something is right or wrong. I am just interested in getting a glimpse into other people's motivations. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 11:07:35 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But why does your dignity hinge on whether or not you give the money back? Why is it important to you in your own eyes to give it back? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I found $80 in the floor of the DMV last week. I was the only one there. I picked it up, handed it to a lady at the counter, and told her someone might come back looking for this. $5,000 isn't enough to buy my dignity. $500,000 might be. But why does your dignity hinge on whether or not you give the money back? Why is it important to you in your own eyes to give it back? M_S, if you TRULY need this answered, then no answer will be good enough. Most people are basically honest, and truly care about others, even strangers. $5000 is a big piece of change, and it'll likely make a big difference in someone's life. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 11:11:00 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's an interesting topic. Why do people do the things that they do? Why do bad people do bad things? Why do good people do bad things? To me the explanation that "They're Evil!" is just too simplistic. They're evil? The Devil made you do it? Superstitious hogwash. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If it were common sense then why would we need to put locks on our doors, keep our money in banks and carry firearms to protect ourselves? There are millions and millions of people who believe that lying, cheating and stealing are perfectly acceptable ways of getting what they want. Some of them are not very good at it, so they wind up robbing liquor stores and getting killed or going to prison. Some of them are very good at it and they wind up running multi-national corporations or getting elected to public office. Also, if you just don't steal because it's common sense that stealing is wrong, then what do you know about yourself? How can you consider yourself to be free, or even free thinking is you don't understand why you do or don't do the things that you do or don't do? How can you know if your actions are more or less just or reasonable than the actions of someone who does the opposite of what you do? What makes you better than the brain washed North Koreans who cry over Dear Leader because they were told that Dear Leader was a great man who made them prosperous, powerful, safe and free? What makes you better than the Jihadis who kill because they were told that killing is the will of Allah and that if the want to go to heaven then they should do as Allah commands? You should take some sociology courses, too.
ETA: I've never taken it, but criminal psychology might offer insights as well. ETA 2: Also, take some cultural anthropology courses with a regional focus on somewhere like the Mediterranean or the Middle East...you'll find a completely different standard on morality and property rights. ETA 3: Basically, there are many different reasons for morality, or lack thereof, in our species... It is highly varied and often subjective. It's an interesting topic. Why do people do the things that they do? Why do bad people do bad things? Why do good people do bad things? To me the explanation that "They're Evil!" is just too simplistic. They're evil? The Devil made you do it? Superstitious hogwash. It becomes even more interesting when you realize that what is "bad" for one group may carry a completely different meaning for another. In some societies, stealing (as long as you don't get caught) will lend the individual a certain amount of honor and status. He has essentially proved his superiority by getting it over on someone else. The flip side is, of course, also true...others will attempt to get it over on you. Honor killings are an extreme example of relative morality in cultures. Individuals in a family may exhibit extreme grief over the loss of a loved one, but society and pressure to defend the honor of a family unit or clan are stronger because of the overall culture and the weight of community opinion. Basically, the ultimate form of peer pressure. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 11:15:35 PM EDT
[#47]
OP is confusing two uses of the word stealing. You aren't robbing someone directly by force - it is still theft in that nobody would ever leave that much money and their license behind on purpose. I voted because I'd feel bad for them, but my real reason is bigger than that.
Our society functions based on the sum of the efforts of its individual members. It is safe to go outside at night not because we have police, but because the average person is law abiding. By being adults in our society we have agreed to the social contract of the laws of the land. There is honor in honesty and integrity, and I value those highly. Sure my father taught me that, and Jesus taught me that, but I have also come to that conclusion through study of ethics, morals, and philosophy. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 11:17:44 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also, as I have learned now, there are some people who wouldn't keep the money because it's stealing and stealing is wrong. They don't know why stealing is wrong, they just know that stealing is wrong and therefore they don't steal. They don't understand their actions (or inactions) they just do (or don't do) them. It might be empathy (as you said), it could be societal conditioning (very likely), or maybe the invisible fear of punishment (people would probably still act if this was the only obstacle). In reality, it is probably the combination of many different factors. Ethics and morality are not subjects that necessarily yield definitive answers. Maybe some of us just haven't decided to Break Bad, yet. 
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Posted: 8/26/2014 11:22:25 PM EDT
[#49]
I have found a wallet lying in a large parking lot and a woman's purse that was forgotten in a shopping cart. Both had ID and money, credit cards, etc. I don't know how much money, I didn't count it.
I called the owners and returned everything intact. Both were elderly and almost cried when they got their stuff back. AND, you are wrong OP. To do anything less or keep the money is stealing and the act of someone with no character or honor. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 11:23:52 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I return it. I know who's property the purse and its contents are. Why? Because I'm not a thief. |
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