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Posted: 8/1/2014 11:39:12 PM EDT
[#1]
Do they land on a treadmill?
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Posted: 8/1/2014 11:40:46 PM EDT
[#2]
In a vacuum they would land at the same time 
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Posted: 8/1/2014 11:41:07 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do they land on a treadmill? |
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Posted: 8/1/2014 11:41:34 PM EDT
[#4]
I flew in a plane once, i was high
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Posted: 8/1/2014 11:45:03 PM EDT
[#5]
The lighter plane flys farther. It's common sense. Jesus Man, look up "induced drag".
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Posted: 8/1/2014 11:47:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The lighter plane flys farther. It's common sense. Jesus Man, look up "induced drag". |
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Posted: 8/1/2014 11:48:50 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I don't know what induced drag is, I must ask the question Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The lighter plane flys farther. It's common sense. Jesus Man, look up "induced drag". If I don't know what induced drag is, I must ask the question It's when you convince a guy to dress up like a girl. Duh. |
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Posted: 8/1/2014 11:49:35 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's when you convince a guy to dress up like a girl. Duh. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The lighter plane flys farther. It's common sense. Jesus Man, look up "induced drag". If I don't know what induced drag is, I must ask the question It's when you convince a guy to dress up like a girl. Duh. 
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Posted: 8/1/2014 11:50:29 PM EDT
[#9]
 Oh, I get it now
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Posted: 8/2/2014 12:12:35 AM EDT
[#10]
Light plane lands farther out. I cant really break it down typing on my tablet but trust me. Glide ratio is based on tested weight. Angle of attack, induced drag, and best glide can all be effected by weight.
In before the treadmill tards and physics professors |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 12:54:29 AM EDT
[#11]
If you can change airspeed to the best glide then A heavier plane will have a better glide angle but require more airspeed. So the heavier plane will go farther, fly faster, descend faster, and land earlier than a light plane. This is why gliders have water ballast tanks for cross country racing, more distance and higher airspeed.
If you fly at a random airspeed and don't change airspeed then it depends on the shape of the climb-descent curves. You can't say for certain because it depends on where on the curves you are operating and the shape of the curves. In other words you could get one answer near stall and a different answer near vne. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 2:22:20 AM EDT
[#12]
My dual engine failure procedure says 265 knots minimum airspeed. If they're both at 265 knots, the heavier plane will have to descend faster to maintain that speed. So heavy plane has to descend at, say, 3000 feet per minute from 30,000 feet and light plane gets to descend at a leisurely 2000 feet per minute.
One plane lands in 10 minutes, one gets to cruise around for 15. The lighter plane will always be able to stay aloft longer and go further. Less lift required= less drag=fly further. Despite the weight differences, the swearing will be equal. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 2:46:32 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Despite the weight differences, the swearing will be equal. Interesting point
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Posted: 8/2/2014 3:41:45 AM EDT
[#14]
Other things being equal, less mass = longer glide.
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Posted: 8/2/2014 3:42:51 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Two planes (identical) flying side-by-side, one is carry substantially more weight then the other. Both planes engines turn off. Which plane land first/farther? I asked a former Navy Aviator (EA-6) 0-5 and he said the lighter plane travels much farther. I also asked a current Marine Aviator (CH-53) 0-3 and he said the same thing. I'm only asking because someone said here in GD a couple days ago that they both land at the same place but the heavier plane lands faster than the lighter plane. It depends which plane as a better glide slope. one plane being lighter has nothing to do with how far it can glide, but how much lift it generates and its optimal speed at glide slope. to everyone saying the lighter plane goes further, what if the heavier plane produces more lift? also balance and trim. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 4:22:42 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It depends which plane as a better glide slope. one plane being lighter has nothing to do with how far it can glide, but how much lift it generates and its optimal speed at glide slope. to everyone saying the lighter plane goes further, what if the heavier plane produces more lift? also balance and trim. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Two planes (identical) flying side-by-side, one is carry substantially more weight then the other. Both planes engines turn off. Which plane land first/farther? I asked a former Navy Aviator (EA-6) 0-5 and he said the lighter plane travels much farther. I also asked a current Marine Aviator (CH-53) 0-3 and he said the same thing. I'm only asking because someone said here in GD a couple days ago that they both land at the same place but the heavier plane lands faster than the lighter plane. It depends which plane as a better glide slope. one plane being lighter has nothing to do with how far it can glide, but how much lift it generates and its optimal speed at glide slope. to everyone saying the lighter plane goes further, what if the heavier plane produces more lift? also balance and trim. They're the same plane. How does the heavier plane just "produce" more lift without sacrifice? Slats and flaps? Sure more lift (along with drag). But the lighter plane can do that also. Anything the heavy plane can do, the light plane can do more efficiently. We're talking two 747s. One max gross weight. One stripped down with minimum fuel. You're saying it's possible for those two planes to stay in the air for the same amount of time and go the same distance from equal altitudes? 
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Posted: 8/2/2014 5:15:34 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It depends which plane as a better glide slope. one plane being lighter has nothing to do with how far it can glide, but how much lift it generates and its optimal speed at glide slope. to everyone saying the lighter plane goes further, what if the heavier plane produces more lift? also balance and trim. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Two planes (identical) flying side-by-side, one is carry substantially more weight then the other. Both planes engines turn off. Which plane land first/farther? I asked a former Navy Aviator (EA-6) 0-5 and he said the lighter plane travels much farther. I also asked a current Marine Aviator (CH-53) 0-3 and he said the same thing. I'm only asking because someone said here in GD a couple days ago that they both land at the same place but the heavier plane lands faster than the lighter plane. It depends which plane as a better glide slope. one plane being lighter has nothing to do with how far it can glide, but how much lift it generates and its optimal speed at glide slope. to everyone saying the lighter plane goes further, what if the heavier plane produces more lift? also balance and trim. Heavier plane has to have greater angle of attack to maintain same glide ratio. So more drag. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 5:23:35 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It depends which plane as a better glide slope. one plane being lighter has nothing to do with how far it can glide, but how much lift it generates and its optimal speed at glide slope. to everyone saying the lighter plane goes further, what if the heavier plane produces more lift? also balance and trim. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Two planes (identical) flying side-by-side, one is carry substantially more weight then the other. Both planes engines turn off. Which plane land first/farther? I asked a former Navy Aviator (EA-6) 0-5 and he said the lighter plane travels much farther. I also asked a current Marine Aviator (CH-53) 0-3 and he said the same thing. I'm only asking because someone said here in GD a couple days ago that they both land at the same place but the heavier plane lands faster than the lighter plane. It depends which plane as a better glide slope. one plane being lighter has nothing to do with how far it can glide, but how much lift it generates and its optimal speed at glide slope. to everyone saying the lighter plane goes further, what if the heavier plane produces more lift? also balance and trim. Here's a hint.....the "Glideslope" will be the same for any airplane flying the same instrument approach. After all it's published. 
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Posted: 8/2/2014 5:26:34 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In a vacuum they would land at the same time I declare this the honorary first post. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 5:26:36 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The lighter plane flys farther. It's common sense. Jesus Man, look up "induced drag". Beware, the GD armchair aviation experts will be along shortly to tell the professional aviators that they are wrong and don't know what they are talking about.... never fails... |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 5:29:04 AM EDT
[#21]
Come n, every one knows it the heavy plane.
Look at a Road Runner cartoon. The Coyote and the Road runner run of the cliff together, the coyote is heavier and falls to the bottom of the valley. The lighter weight roadrunner doesn't. QED. Beep Beep
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Posted: 8/2/2014 5:30:53 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I don't know what induced drag is, I must ask the question Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The lighter plane flys farther. It's common sense. Jesus Man, look up "induced drag". The answer is more complicated than "induced drag". Induced drag is the part of drag attributed to the production of lift. It's sensitive to speed and angle of attack which controls the coefficient of lift. Low aspect ratio wings are more sensitive than high aspect ratio wings (due to the change in momentum of the air flow distribution along the span, the change is less severe with high aspect ratio wings). The coefficient for induced drag in the equation posted above contains several terms dependent on the airplane's configuration, it is not a fixed value. First thing to do is to adjust the speed of each airplane to best glide speed for the weight; the heavier airplane has a higher speed for best glide. The difference in the ratio of lift to drag, which is also the angle of descent, is so small in airplanes of low to moderate aspect ratio that it's barely measurable. Both pilots will be able to wave to each other once they land. Other factors such as ability to hold constant speed and fly the airplane in trim, coordinated flight will have a greater effect than the weights. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 5:33:08 AM EDT
[#23]
and we wonder how obama was elected
glidslope and all |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 5:46:01 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Heavier plane has to have greater angle of attack to maintain same glide ratio. So more drag. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Two planes (identical) flying side-by-side, one is carry substantially more weight then the other. Both planes engines turn off. Which plane land first/farther? I asked a former Navy Aviator (EA-6) 0-5 and he said the lighter plane travels much farther. I also asked a current Marine Aviator (CH-53) 0-3 and he said the same thing. I'm only asking because someone said here in GD a couple days ago that they both land at the same place but the heavier plane lands faster than the lighter plane. It depends which plane as a better glide slope. one plane being lighter has nothing to do with how far it can glide, but how much lift it generates and its optimal speed at glide slope. to everyone saying the lighter plane goes further, what if the heavier plane produces more lift? also balance and trim. Heavier plane has to have greater angle of attack to maintain same glide ratio. So more drag. The heavier airplane needs a greater angle of attack to lift the greater weight, hence greater drag, and not just induced drag. The maximum glide ratio is not constant across configurations, it changes for every operating weight. Glide ratio is the ratio of lift to drag, L/D. If drag can be controlled and kept constant at the increased weight, then the L/D increases! The way ahead is to increase speed slightly in order to reduce the angle of attack required, trading the squared speed effect off against the lift coefficient squared effect. On strong lift days, sailplanes take advantage of this effect by flying with ballast to allow very high speeds with reasonably low drag, then late in the day as the lift starts to weaken, the ballast is dumped, shifting the drag polar of the glider to lower speeds. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 5:48:50 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... Here's a hint.....the "Glideslope" will be the same for any airplane flying the same instrument approach. After all it's published. Tell your survivors to get back to us after your first ILS approach with zero power flown to the chart. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 6:10:11 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Two planes (identical) flying side-by-side, one is carry substantially more weight then the other. Both planes engines turn off. Which plane land first/farther? I asked a former Navy Aviator (EA-6) 0-5 and he said the lighter plane travels much farther. I also asked a current Marine Aviator (CH-53) 0-3 and he said the same thing. I'm only asking because someone said here in GD a couple days ago that they both land at the same place but the heavier plane lands faster than the lighter plane. Read this: http://www.rjplancaster.net/documents/PrinciplesOfGliderFlight-LiftDragPerformance.pdf. The last couple of pages explain the effect on the drag polar. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 6:17:10 AM EDT
[#27]
"So, if two aircraft are identical other than weight, the lighter one glides further.
Incorrect ! Absolutely wrong! Glide ratio (L over D or L/D) is NOT effected by aircraft weight." http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_does_glide_ratio_not_change_with_aircraft_weight |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 6:23:29 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you can change airspeed to the best glide then A heavier plane will have a better glide angle but require more airspeed. So the heavier plane will go farther, fly faster, descend faster, and land earlier than a light plane. This is why gliders have water ballast tanks for cross country racing, more distance and higher airspeed. If you fly at a random airspeed and don't change airspeed then it depends on the shape of the climb-descent curves. You can't say for certain because it depends on where on the curves you are operating and the shape of the curves. In other words you could get one answer near stall and a different answer near vne. this is the correct answer. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 6:28:10 AM EDT
[#29]
Physics how does it work?
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Posted: 8/2/2014 7:04:30 AM EDT
[#30]
Since no one has mentioned how big an effect a good pilot can have in this scenerio ill add this.
Both pilots are idiots, cause a stall, and auger in due to a flat spin. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 7:08:25 AM EDT
[#31]
Because heavier things fall faster than lighter things. Duh.
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Posted: 8/2/2014 7:36:32 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The lighter plane flys farther. It's common sense. Jesus Man, look up "induced drag". If I don't know what induced drag is, I must ask the question It's when you convince a guy to dress up like a girl. Duh. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 7:50:59 AM EDT
[#33]
There are enough variables unaccounted for that I will say 'depends'.
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Posted: 8/2/2014 7:52:26 AM EDT
[#34]
Which direction are they headed?
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Posted: 8/2/2014 8:08:30 AM EDT
[#35]
drag polar of the glider
What in the wide, wide world of sports does a queer bear have to do with the angle of the dangle? 
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Posted: 8/2/2014 8:12:01 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
drag polar of the glider
What in the wide, wide world of sports does a queer bear have to do with the angle of the dangle?
You're one of those guys that dress for the drag, eh? |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 8:20:55 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're one of those guys that dress for the drag, eh? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
drag polar of the glider
What in the wide, wide world of sports does a queer bear have to do with the angle of the dangle?
You're one of those guys that dress for the drag, eh? If both airplanes had vortex generators, one having AC and one having DC, which one would glide farther? 
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Posted: 8/2/2014 8:50:16 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Read this: http://www.rjplancaster.net/documents/PrinciplesOfGliderFlight-LiftDragPerformance.pdf. The last couple of pages explain the effect on the drag polar. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Two planes (identical) flying side-by-side, one is carry substantially more weight then the other. Both planes engines turn off. Which plane land first/farther? I asked a former Navy Aviator (EA-6) 0-5 and he said the lighter plane travels much farther. I also asked a current Marine Aviator (CH-53) 0-3 and he said the same thing. I'm only asking because someone said here in GD a couple days ago that they both land at the same place but the heavier plane lands faster than the lighter plane. Read this: http://www.rjplancaster.net/documents/PrinciplesOfGliderFlight-LiftDragPerformance.pdf. The last couple of pages explain the effect on the drag polar. I'll go ahead and take credit for making the original statement OP is asking about. As usual, AeroE is the aerodynamics master of the subject. But I'll add this before people start rioting; This is more of a theoretical statement so don't get too wrapped around the axel with shit like "which airplane has the better pilot?" My statement is backed up by the last paragraph on page 40 of the hotlink; that being that glide ratio is not effected by weight but the airspeed for best glide ratio changes with weight. Now I'm going to sit back and enjoy the shit show. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 9:09:00 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Two planes (identical) flying side-by-side, one is carry substantially more weight then the other. Both planes engines turn off. Which plane land first/farther? I asked a former Navy Aviator (EA-6) 0-5 and he said the lighter plane travels much farther. I also asked a current Marine Aviator (CH-53) 0-3 and he said the same thing. I'm only asking because someone said here in GD a couple days ago that they both land at the same place but the heavier plane lands faster than the lighter plane. Shoulda asked a glider pilot. But next time you talk to your military buddies, refer them to a manual they should be familiar with. Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators, first paragraph on page 371. Being a government publication it's a free download. I'll harvest this one sentence from it: "Thus, the maximum glide performance of a given airplane configuration will be unaffected by gross weight and altitude when the airplane is operated at (L/D)." |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 9:13:02 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shoulda asked a glider pilot. But next time you talk to your military buddies, refer them to a manual they should be familiar with. [url=http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/media/00-80t-80.pdf]Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators[/url], first paragraph on page 371. Being a government publication it's a free download. I'll harvest this one sentence from it: "Thus, the maximum glide performance of a given airplane configuration will be unaffected by gross weight and altitude when the airplane is operated at (L/D)." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Two planes (identical) flying side-by-side, one is carry substantially more weight then the other. Both planes engines turn off. Which plane land first/farther? I asked a former Navy Aviator (EA-6) 0-5 and he said the lighter plane travels much farther. I also asked a current Marine Aviator (CH-53) 0-3 and he said the same thing. I'm only asking because someone said here in GD a couple days ago that they both land at the same place but the heavier plane lands faster than the lighter plane. Shoulda asked a glider pilot. But next time you talk to your military buddies, refer them to a manual they should be familiar with. [url=http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/media/00-80t-80.pdf]Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators[/url], first paragraph on page 371. Being a government publication it's a free download. I'll harvest this one sentence from it: "Thus, the maximum glide performance of a given airplane configuration will be unaffected by gross weight and altitude when the airplane is operated at (L/D)." This is a most excellent publication! I have a couple of them, one at home and one at the airport..... |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 9:18:37 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is a most excellent publication! I have a couple of them, one at home and one at the airport..... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Two planes (identical) flying side-by-side, one is carry substantially more weight then the other. Both planes engines turn off. Which plane land first/farther? I asked a former Navy Aviator (EA-6) 0-5 and he said the lighter plane travels much farther. I also asked a current Marine Aviator (CH-53) 0-3 and he said the same thing. I'm only asking because someone said here in GD a couple days ago that they both land at the same place but the heavier plane lands faster than the lighter plane. Shoulda asked a glider pilot. But next time you talk to your military buddies, refer them to a manual they should be familiar with. " target="_blank">Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators, first paragraph on page 371. Being a government publication it's a free download. I'll harvest this one sentence from it: "Thus, the maximum glide performance of a given airplane configuration will be unaffected by gross weight and altitude when the airplane is operated at (L/D)." This is a most excellent publication! I have a couple of them, one at home and one at the airport..... I always hated it myself. Makes the topic of aerodynamics incredibly boring and delivered in a damn near unreadable manner. It's both ridiculously detailed and frustratingly vague. But it does come in handy upon occasion. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 9:24:23 AM EDT
[#42]
The heavier plane will have a higher stall (AOA) speed due to the increased weight so it will have to be faster on final.
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Posted: 8/2/2014 9:26:09 AM EDT
[#43]
Depends on what the pilot does.
I'd prefer my AC be lighter rather than heavier if the engine must go out while I'm flying it. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 9:29:56 AM EDT
[#44]
Edit
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Posted: 8/2/2014 9:30:07 AM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Two planes (identical) flying side-by-side, one is carry substantially more weight then the other. Both planes engines turn off. Which plane land first/farther? I asked a former Navy Aviator (EA-6) 0-5 and he said the lighter plane travels much farther. I also asked a current Marine Aviator (CH-53) 0-3 and he said the same thing. I'm only asking because someone said here in GD a couple days ago that they both land at the same place but the heavier plane lands faster than the lighter plane. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 9:32:34 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Depends on what the pilot does.
I'd prefer my AC be lighter rather than heavier if the engine must go out while I'm flying it. I prefer to have a scotch in my hand. Other than that I hope to make it an entertaining show and I'm avoiding the beach. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 9:35:41 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tell your survivors to get back to us after your first ILS approach with zero power flown to the chart. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
... Here's a hint.....the "Glideslope" will be the same for any airplane flying the same instrument approach. After all it's published. Tell your survivors to get back to us after your first ILS approach with zero power flown to the chart. <-- I mean what would you know sarcasm
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Posted: 8/2/2014 9:37:19 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are enough variables unaccounted for that I will say 'depends'. Either pilot may consider 'Depends' to be a valuable item to have equipped themselves with, in that scenario. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 9:54:46 AM EDT
[#49]
If that fan quits there is no question that the aircraft is going to land whether the pilot wants it to or not.
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Posted: 8/2/2014 10:10:23 AM EDT
[#50]
treadmill
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