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Posted: 8/1/2014 9:04:47 PM EDT
[#1]
CSB.
Yawn....... |
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Posted: 8/1/2014 9:07:54 PM EDT
[#2]
They look complicated as hell. I do rotor brakes and pads, drums I let someone else fu k with.
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Posted: 8/1/2014 9:08:47 PM EDT
[#3]
There's a special tool kit? We had to learn with regular hand tools.
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Posted: 8/1/2014 9:12:40 PM EDT
[#4]
Did you notice the difference between the shoes? there should have been a short pair and a long pair..shorts go to the front, longs to the rear...if installed backwards they can make the brakes grabby and noisy...
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Posted: 8/1/2014 9:13:37 PM EDT
[#5]
I've done literally thousands of drum brakes and I could not imagine doing it without the "special tools." Getting the springs back on using screwdrivers or whatever the fuck is a fabulous way to get some really serious puncture wounds. For the 10 or 15 bucks you would spend at Harbor Freight for brake tools it is money well spent if you ever do more than one drum brake job. Anyway, a man is supposed to have the proper tools.
The above does not apply to hipsters, metrosexuals, "alternative lifestylers" and democrats. |
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Posted: 8/1/2014 9:17:33 PM EDT
[#6]
First rule of doing drum brakes:
Jack both sides up and support with jackstands. Pull the drum off both sides, but only do one brake at a time (don't start on the second one, until the first one is back together). That way you have an assembled brake to look at, if you can't remember exactly how one of the springs was connected. |
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Posted: 8/1/2014 9:18:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's a special tool kit? We had to learn with regular hand tools. Most of the instructions I researched recommended the hand driver for the retention springs, a pair of spring pliers, and a tool for the adjuster. I did everything with my large needle nose and a flat screwdriver. HF had a cheap kit that would've done it, but I already spent $120 on new drums, shoes, springs, and cylinders. I figured I could make it work. Also, I think I'm a bit, um, cheerful from the brake-cleaner fumes. I had to close the garage door for a while because of a thunderstorm, and my particulate mask couldn't keep out the good vibrations. 
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Posted: 8/1/2014 9:20:34 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you notice the difference between the shoes? there should have been a short pair and a long pair..shorts go to the front, longs to the rear...if installed backwards they can make the brakes grabby and noisy... Yup, I paid very close attention and took my sweet time. The parking brake and adjuster also fit to the trailing and leading pads, respectively; and they wouldn't have worked if I got 'em wrong. |
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Posted: 8/1/2014 9:23:35 PM EDT
[#9]
I completely rebuilt a pair or drum brakes on my K1500 when I swapped in a junkyard rear axle. My Haynes manual has been invaluable for such things.
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Posted: 8/1/2014 9:24:27 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've done literally thousands of drum brakes and I could not imagine doing it without the "special tools." Getting the springs back on using screwdrivers or whatever the fuck is a fabulous way to get some really serious puncture wounds. For the 10 or 15 bucks you would spend at Harbor Freight for brake tools it is money well spent if you ever do more than one drum brake job. Anyway, a man is supposed to have the proper tools. The above does not apply to hipsters, metrosexuals, "alternative lifestylers" and democrats. I used needle nose vise grips on a couple of the springs. I kept my hands clear and made sure to wear my eye pro. I'm pretty sure this is the first and last time that I'll do drums. It's my '03 minivan and it was still on the original shoes, and they still had half of the material showing. I bet it can go another 15 years without a change, and by then all of my kids will be grown. |
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Posted: 8/1/2014 9:25:01 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
It was a pain, but it could've been worse. I'm glad I didn't bother buying the special tool kit--there wasn't anything that couldn't be done with regular old hand tools. I know, not even a CSB. Still, I tackled it and I'm feeling good, so y'all get to hear about it. I for one salute you. -1 point for not using the proper tools, but that can be forgiven. Tools are never a waste of money. You win because you didn't post a thread asking what brake drums look like, or bitching that the clerk at the parts store isn't ASE certified, or whether $1000 is a fair price at the stealership. You just got the parts and put them on like a man does. 
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Posted: 8/1/2014 9:25:33 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
First rule of doing drum brakes: Jack both sides up and support with jackstands. Pull the drum off both sides, but only do one brake at a time (don't start on the second one, until the first one is back together). That way you have an assembled brake to look at, if you can't remember exactly how one of the springs was connected. Yeah, that's how I did it. I went slooooow on the first one (driver's side). After that the passenger side was a breeze. |
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Posted: 8/1/2014 11:59:54 PM EDT
[#13]
Tool kit? I did the drum brakes on my 1970 Pontiac LeMans with a hammer and a screwdriver. ;)
Haven't messed with brakes in 25 years or more. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 12:02:52 AM EDT
[#14]
Drum brakes aren't bad. Now the emergency brakes inside of rear disc brakes can be a pain in the ass. It is sometimes faster to just remove the axle if you got the gasket and gear oil to put back in the rear end.
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Posted: 8/2/2014 12:09:27 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
It was a pain, but it could've been worse. I'm glad I didn't bother buying the special tool kit--there wasn't anything that couldn't be done with regular old hand tools. I know, not even a CSB. Still, I tackled it and I'm feeling good, so y'all get to hear about it. Great work! Now you have some extra little knowledge and it'll be even easier the next time you do it. I've always used vise grips for the springs but the little black handled tool in the picture below makes life so much easier for the retention caps. 
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Posted: 8/2/2014 2:42:55 AM EDT
[#16]
Yes, you can do it without the special tools, but it's so much easier with them. 
I'm old, so I've done quite a few drum brake jobs in my life. By far, the worst was the e-brake inside of rotor on a Jeep Liberty. The adjuster hole in the backing plate isn't even close to the star wheel. 
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Posted: 8/2/2014 2:48:19 AM EDT
[#17]
Once was enough for me but congrats to you for accomplishing the feat
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Posted: 8/2/2014 2:50:08 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've done literally thousands of drum brakes and I could not imagine doing it without the "special tools." Getting the springs back on using screwdrivers or whatever the fuck is a fabulous way to get some really serious puncture wounds. For the 10 or 15 bucks you would spend at Harbor Freight for brake tools it is money well spent if you ever do more than one drum brake job. Anyway, a man is supposed to have the proper tools. The above does not apply to hipsters, metrosexuals, "alternative lifestylers" and democrats. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 2:57:02 AM EDT
[#19]
Drums are a pain in the butt, heavy, and don't work as well as discs.
What vehicle do you own that still has drums? Regardless, good job on doing it. Now you have a much better understanding how the system works. Men who talk about how much their time is worth and use that as an excuse to not mess up with manicure irritate me to no end. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 3:38:14 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've done literally thousands of drum brakes and I could not imagine doing it without the "special tools." Getting the springs back on using screwdrivers or whatever the fuck is a fabulous way to get some really serious puncture wounds. For the 10 or 15 bucks you would spend at Harbor Freight for brake tools it is money well spent if you ever do more than one drum brake job. Anyway, a man is supposed to have the proper tools. The above does not apply to hipsters, metrosexuals, "alternative lifestylers" and democrats. LOL, I grew up doing drum brakes, never saw a disc brake for a lotta years. FWIW, I was about 17, doing brakes on my '67 Camaro, and was pulling the spring with a pair of needle nose. A friend of my Dad's (mechanic) saw me, knocked me on my ass, and then, once I got up, popped out one of his eyes, and said, "Guess how I lost this?" Wore safety glasses and used the right tools after that! |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 5:44:52 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Drums are a pain in the butt, heavy, and don't work as well as discs. What vehicle do you own that still has drums? Regardless, good job on doing it. Now you have a much better understanding how the system works. Men who talk about how much their time is worth and use that as an excuse to not mess up with manicure irritate me to no end. It's an '03 Caravan with rear drums, no ABS. It wasn't long after that Chrysler went to all disc. I never minded getting dirty, even though my time is valuable. Usually I punt to the pros when something is (1) beyond my capability to do well in a reasonable time frame, or (2) likely to cause more problems in the process of learning how to do it. (1) was not the case with this job, but (2) became an issue since I couldn't figure out which way to turn the adjusters when I needed to back the shoes off to remove the drums. I gorilla'd the drums off and cost myself a bit of time and money in additional parts when I trashed the boots on the wheel cylinders. A pro might've charged me about $120 to replace shoes and springs and surface the drums, and I would've had the car back that day. Instead, I put the car on stands for two days while I got neck deep in the project, and the $120 I spent bought new hydraulics and drums in addition to the wear items. That was worth it to me. Plus now I know how to do it. Do old drums and rotors make good range targets? They're starting to pile up in the garage. 
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Posted: 8/2/2014 5:51:20 AM EDT
[#22]
I am looking to put disc brakes on my 67. Drum brakes suck!
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Posted: 8/2/2014 5:55:00 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Drum brakes aren't bad. Now the emergency brakes inside of rear disc brakes can be a pain in the ass. It is sometimes faster to just remove the axle if you got the gasket and gear oil to put back in the rear end. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 5:56:37 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's an '03 Caravan with rear drums, no ABS. It wasn't long after that Chrysler went to all disc. I never minded getting dirty, even though my time is valuable. Usually I punt to the pros when something is (1) beyond my capability to do well in a reasonable time frame, or (2) likely to cause more problems in the process of learning how to do it. (1) was not the case with this job, but (2) became an issue since I couldn't figure out which way to turn the adjusters when I needed to back the shoes off to remove the drums. I gorilla'd the drums off and cost myself a bit of time and money in additional parts when I trashed the boots on the wheel cylinders. A pro might've charged me about $120 to replace shoes and springs and surface the drums, and I would've had the car back that day. Instead, I put the car on stands for two days while I got neck deep in the project, and the $120 I spent bought new hydraulics and drums in addition to the wear items. That was worth it to me. Plus now I know how to do it. Do old drums and rotors make good range targets? They're starting to pile up in the garage. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Drums are a pain in the butt, heavy, and don't work as well as discs. What vehicle do you own that still has drums? Regardless, good job on doing it. Now you have a much better understanding how the system works. Men who talk about how much their time is worth and use that as an excuse to not mess up with manicure irritate me to no end. It's an '03 Caravan with rear drums, no ABS. It wasn't long after that Chrysler went to all disc. I never minded getting dirty, even though my time is valuable. Usually I punt to the pros when something is (1) beyond my capability to do well in a reasonable time frame, or (2) likely to cause more problems in the process of learning how to do it. (1) was not the case with this job, but (2) became an issue since I couldn't figure out which way to turn the adjusters when I needed to back the shoes off to remove the drums. I gorilla'd the drums off and cost myself a bit of time and money in additional parts when I trashed the boots on the wheel cylinders. A pro might've charged me about $120 to replace shoes and springs and surface the drums, and I would've had the car back that day. Instead, I put the car on stands for two days while I got neck deep in the project, and the $120 I spent bought new hydraulics and drums in addition to the wear items. That was worth it to me. Plus now I know how to do it. Do old drums and rotors make good range targets? They're starting to pile up in the garage. check the tolerance on your old drums. you can take them to a napa and have them turned down to save a few bucks on your next shoe replacement. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 6:00:10 AM EDT
[#25]
Wanna swing by Co. and
get some more practice? My 72 has drums front and rear. You'll be a pro afterwards.
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Posted: 8/2/2014 6:02:59 AM EDT
[#26]
The spring tool is worth every penny.
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Posted: 8/2/2014 6:06:27 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
First rule of doing drum brakes: Jack both sides up and support with jackstands. Pull the drum off both sides, but only do one brake at a time (don't start on the second one, until the first one is back together). That way you have an assembled brake to look at, if you can't remember exactly how one of the springs was connected. That's exactly what my father told me. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 6:14:25 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The spring tool is worth every penny. The one for the retainers? 'Cause on this car I was able to get those on by hand. The horizontal springs on the shoes all went on with needle nose, and the one under the most tension actually has a dual-coil design that made it super easy to grab and push, like so: 
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Posted: 8/2/2014 6:16:59 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
First rule of doing drum brakes: Jack both sides up and support with jackstands. Pull the drum off both sides, but only do one brake at a time (don't start on the second one, until the first one is back together). That way you have an assembled brake to look at, if you can't remember exactly how one of the springs was connected. I do that where there's two of anything. If not then lots of pictures. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 6:19:19 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
First rule of doing drum brakes: Jack both sides up and support with jackstands. Pull the drum off both sides, but only do one brake at a time (don't start on the second one, until the first one is back together). That way you have an assembled brake to look at, if you can't remember exactly how one of the springs was connected. Came here to post this. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 6:19:35 AM EDT
[#31]
The lost eye story above reminded me of a friend of mine who did something similar but it was needle-nose pliers up the nose.......
Yes they can be done without the "special" tools but like was already mentioned just go buy the cheap ones at HF if you work on your own. It may save an eye or nose piercing...... 
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Posted: 8/2/2014 6:22:31 AM EDT
[#32]
My Yukon has rear drums and rear discs.
The parking brake is a drum inside the disc rotor. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 6:34:42 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The worse are the Lincoln and Cadillac e-brakes that are part of the rear caliper. Those things can be a bitch to get adjusted. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Drum brakes aren't bad. Now the emergency brakes inside of rear disc brakes can be a pain in the ass. It is sometimes faster to just remove the axle if you got the gasket and gear oil to put back in the rear end. Rear Drum Brakes are worthwhile just for the ability to get rid of those expensive and shitty 'Drum In Hat' style Park Brakes, IMO. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 6:42:25 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The one for the retainers? 'Cause on this car I was able to get those on by hand. The horizontal springs on the shoes all went on with needle nose, and the one under the most tension actually has a dual-coil design that made it super easy to grab and push, like so: http://i.imgur.com/hXmdK4O.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The spring tool is worth every penny. The one for the retainers? 'Cause on this car I was able to get those on by hand. The horizontal springs on the shoes all went on with needle nose, and the one under the most tension actually has a dual-coil design that made it super easy to grab and push, like so: http://i.imgur.com/hXmdK4O.jpg Yes, the retainer springs. It sounds like your weren't that much of a problem. When you come across the difficult ones, they are a hand saver. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 6:45:19 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, the retainer springs. It sounds like your weren't that much of a problem. When you come across the difficult ones, they are a hand saver.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The spring tool is worth every penny. The one for the retainers? 'Cause on this car I was able to get those on by hand. The horizontal springs on the shoes all went on with needle nose, and the one under the most tension actually has a dual-coil design that made it super easy to grab and push, like so: http://i.imgur.com/hXmdK4O.jpg Yes, the retainer springs. It sounds like your weren't that much of a problem. When you come across the difficult ones, they are a hand saver.
The more I look back on it, the more I think these were pretty much the ideal "training" brake. They were actually pretty easy. I'm not looking to level-up, though.
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Posted: 8/2/2014 6:54:08 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The spring tool is worth every penny. That and the Twist cap tool (what ever its real name is) are priceless |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 7:06:37 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's a special tool kit? We had to learn with regular hand tools. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 7:09:01 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rear Drum Brakes are worthwhile just for the ability to get rid of those expensive and shitty 'Drum In Hat' style Park Brakes, IMO. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Drum brakes aren't bad. Now the emergency brakes inside of rear disc brakes can be a pain in the ass. It is sometimes faster to just remove the axle if you got the gasket and gear oil to put back in the rear end. Rear Drum Brakes are worthwhile just for the ability to get rid of those expensive and shitty 'Drum In Hat' style Park Brakes, IMO. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 7:09:20 AM EDT
[#39]
Fuck drum brakes.
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Posted: 8/2/2014 7:23:32 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've done literally thousands of drum brakes and I could not imagine doing it without the "special tools." Getting the springs back on using screwdrivers or whatever the fuck is a fabulous way to get some really serious puncture wounds. For the 10 or 15 bucks you would spend at Harbor Freight for brake tools it is money well spent if you ever do more than one drum brake job. Anyway, a man is supposed to have the proper tools. The above does not apply to hipsters, metrosexuals, "alternative lifestylers" and democrats. Special tools make drum brakes much easier |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 7:35:31 AM EDT
[#41]
Anyway, a man is supposed to have the proper tools. |
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Posted: 8/2/2014 7:54:38 AM EDT
[#42]
I've got a CJ7. I have drum brakes all around. I have the "special tools". No need for me to own Snap-Ons, but they're worth having around. Why re-invent the wheel?
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Posted: 8/2/2014 8:25:45 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: It was a pain, but it could've been worse. I'm glad I didn't bother buying the special tool kit--there wasn't anything that couldn't be done with regular old hand tools. I know, not even a CSB. Still, I tackled it and I'm feeling good, so y'all get to hear about it. Congrats! I don't know why more men don't do their own brakes. Occasionally, if I'm extremely busy, it still bothers me to pay ~$300 to get someone to do my brakes. I'm a tightwad. |
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Posted: 8/3/2014 6:55:37 AM EDT
[#44]
Good on you OP.
I put new OEM discs and pads on my 95' Wrangler a year ago. The rear drums are squeaking pretty bad, but I think I will let the local Midas place redo them for me so I don't screw anything up.
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Posted: 8/3/2014 7:10:20 AM EDT
[#45]
The spring tool is the only thing I can think of. Slip a set of needle nose vice grips and punch yourself in the face.
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Posted: 8/3/2014 7:17:50 AM EDT
[#46]
Congrats. They really aren't that complex and the springs aren't that hard to figure out, they typically only fit in one way. I find it easier to put the two main springs on first, tip the shoes back, then set the bundle into the slots and push in. Then put the third smaller spring in with needle nose pliers.
For my vintage truck the only "special" tool necessary is a brake spoon. |
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Posted: 8/3/2014 7:25:34 AM EDT
[#47]
The "specialty" tool makes it ridiculously easy.
A Bendix spring tool is like $7.50 and worth far more once you use it. |
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Posted: 8/3/2014 7:30:27 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The spring tool is worth every penny. It really is. Makes the job effortless. They're not expensive, either. |
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Posted: 8/3/2014 9:45:57 AM EDT
[#49]
So for some backstory:
We drove out to Albuquerque a few weeks ago to visit family. While there we drove up to the peak (10,000+ elevation) for a picnic hike. As soon as we loaded back up, the van had a major brake fade--literally while backing out of the parking lot. I nursed it down the mountain road and back in to town, where everything started working fine again. I chalked it up to the change in pressure, going from ~600' (here in IA) all the way up to 10K. The drive back to Iowa was perfectly normal, but ever since we got back there's been a grunting noise when stopping from certain speeds. The noise seemed to be coming from the fronts, which got new pads and rotors a couple years ago. They looked okay, without taking the calipers off, so I checked the rears. Since I'd never done anything with the rears I figured I'd just do a full rebuild and call it good. Success and thus, this thread. But the grunting noise persists, and I'm almost certain it's in the front. I'm headed out now to take them apart. Hopefully I can find something to fix. Report coming later. |
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Posted: 8/3/2014 11:52:59 AM EDT
[#50]
Bleed the brakes for good measure.
Kharn |
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