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Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:41:59 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
I can already sense the gnashing of teeth, so before you beat your chests in frustration, bear with me a bit...

Let's consider this from a few angles:

The daily driver-
For almost five years now, I've been driving a 2009 Civic Sedan. Not the Si, the plain model with an automatic transmission. The 1.8L engine makes 140 hp at 6,300 RPMs. If I don't have any passengers or cargo and I mash it, I can barely get it to 60mph in under 10 seconds. That's an eternity compared to what most cars on the road these days are capable of. But here's the thing- I rarely break 4k RPMs, and I can only think of one time in the last several months that I got close to the top of that power curve at 6,300. You're probably imagining a guy that rolls around going with the flow while thinking about anything but driving. That isn't me. I'm not an angry driver, but I do tend to be assertive. When a light turns green at an intersection, I'm almost always the quickest off the line (without racing), and on the highway, I'm usually one of the fastest vehicles on the road. I casually glide by everyone else, and I'm doing it while rarely putting down more than 80 hp.

The hauler-
My first love was a 1985 Ford F-150. It was a long bed with a 302 and an auto. Wiki says it made 190 hp and 285 ft-lb of torque, but by the time I got behind the wheel of her, she was almost 20 years old and well abused. It wasn't in good shape, and sometimes I was just happy to make it wherever I was going. You can load a lot of crap into an 8 foot bed, and I did. Many times. The suspension was actually in decent shape, but I still overloaded it a few times. And yet, no matter how much weight I had loaded, I rarely had to run the engine hard to pull it. On the exception of busy interchanges and uphill on ramps, I didn't need to run up the RPMs to get my load moving. The majority of the time I spent running that old V8 hard had less to do with me trying to get something done and more to do with the fact that I was a teenager hooning and old truck.

The fun car-
Driving isn't all about business. This year, I bought the first car I've ever bought strictly for the joy of driving. I chose the Mazda Miata, and I dug up a decent 1994 example on Craigslist. This summer has brought me the best weather I ever remember, and I've been out driving in it quite a bit. I've put almost 3k miles on it, and I haven't used it for a single commute. All of that is driving for the sake of driving, and I've had a lot of fun. My car made 131 hp when it was new, and it's not. It could probably also benefit from a fresh coil pack and a timing adjustment. Unlike the Civic, I've had this old Miata up in the higher RPM range quite a bit. It revs nicely, and I like the added responsiveness when going through curves at questionable speeds. I've taken this car to the limits of its traction. I've taken it to the limit of my own testicular fortitude. There hasn't been a single time when I thought it could use more power. The limit holding me back is almost always somewhere else.

I can think of one area where power is as crucial as the hype around it, and it's the drag strip and other long straights without limits on speed. It's the reason kickass cars like the new Dodge Hellcat exist, and I respect that. But I am starting to find myself baffled by the emphasis on power that runs everywhere else in the market. Why the hell are appliances like the Camry and the Altima sold with 270 hp engines? Why do internet parrots banter on about the old GM Vortec 5300s and Ford Modular 5.4s as "underpowered?" What couldn't they move that wouldn't have called for a diesel with HD suspension anyways? And why are buying $25k econoboxes that don't send any power to the rear wheels?

Outside of the drag strip, the horsepower wars have little purpose. Manufacturers are working to make their vehicles more and more powerful to get the biggest numbers for a year or two instead of focusing on the things that would make their cars better in actual use.
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Driving a Civic and a Miata and an old F150 you have never had the joy of raw Horsepower. So its just something that you will never understand.
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:42:00 PM EDT
[#2]

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Quoted:
I guess that depends on what you define as "REAL" power.



I've driven a Challeger R/T, a Chrysler 300C SRT-8, a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8, and a new Camaro SS. With almost all of the above, I got more enjoyment from the sound of the V8 than their actual power.
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Quoted:



Quoted:

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you have never driven a car with REAL power.




I guess that depends on what you define as "REAL" power.



I've driven a Challeger R/T, a Chrysler 300C SRT-8, a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8, and a new Camaro SS. With almost all of the above, I got more enjoyment from the sound of the V8 than their actual power.
So you've handled a few straight line "muscle" cars that handle like battle ships on ice and now you can judge the whole car world?



Go drive a GTR, C7 Corvette, or modern 911/997 variant and get back to us.



 
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:42:04 PM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:42:26 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:


why would I? I can buy a 24 year old motorcycle that will leave a Dodge Hellcat driver embarrassed.

and if your wondering wtf bike that is? its the old, SLOW, 120 ish HP Kawasaki ZX-11D. 600 cc sport bikes of 25 years ago will dust your 400 HP mustangs and camaros and get 40 mpg.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you have never driven a car with REAL power.


why would I? I can buy a 24 year old motorcycle that will leave a Dodge Hellcat driver embarrassed.

and if your wondering wtf bike that is? its the old, SLOW, 120 ish HP Kawasaki ZX-11D. 600 cc sport bikes of 25 years ago will dust your 400 HP mustangs and camaros and get 40 mpg.


Actually, that Hellcat will start to walk away from that bike on the big end.
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:42:29 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:

It definitely helps to start with the slow car. I see lots of guys at autox days trying to man handle their new Z28 or Cobra around the track with reckless abandon and ending up getting schooled by an experience guy in a 96 Saturn.
 
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Quoted:
Quoted:
More fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.


Of course, driving a fast car fast is even better.

It definitely helps to start with the slow car. I see lots of guys at autox days trying to man handle their new Z28 or Cobra around the track with reckless abandon and ending up getting schooled by an experience guy in a 96 Saturn.
 

the best is the episode of "are you faster than a redneck" where a young guy in an Audi S4 estate (station wagon) absolutely crushes the guys driving an assortment of hopped up pony cars.

ar-jedi


Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:44:02 PM EDT
[#6]
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Daum fooled me. I thought he was at the track.
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:44:34 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
If you put one of these on your Honda, and paint it primer gray, it will go faster.

https://meta.discourse.org/uploads/meta_discourse/1885/42a57a3684325b55.jpg
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I scuffed the wheels on my caR avoiding an airborne, dislodged piece of crap like that.

Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:44:37 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:

the best is the episode of "are you faster than a redneck" where a young guy in an Audi estate (station wagon) absolutely crushes the guys driving an assortment of hopped up pony cars.

ar-jedi

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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
More fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.


Of course, driving a fast car fast is even better.

It definitely helps to start with the slow car. I see lots of guys at autox days trying to man handle their new Z28 or Cobra around the track with reckless abandon and ending up getting schooled by an experience guy in a 96 Saturn.
 

the best is the episode of "are you faster than a redneck" where a young guy in an Audi estate (station wagon) absolutely crushes the guys driving an assortment of hopped up pony cars.

ar-jedi


Could have been an RS6 Avant.

ETA: Beat by your edit with the video.  S4 is still no slouch.
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:44:43 PM EDT
[#9]
You're right OP.  

I have a vehicle with damn near as much HP as your honda, and I get along just fine

It's a hayabusa
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:45:02 PM EDT
[#10]
People actually do like power in their cars.  They just don't like to "floor it".

Sounds odd but it is true.  People want a car that can accelerate hard with little throttle because people still believe flooring it is "bad" for the engine.  A 270hp engine at 10% throttle moves a hell of a lot faster than a 100hp engine at 10% throttle.

I need to ask for 50-60% of my Miata in order to keep up with a new Camry leaving a light at a normal pace.  To other people that seems underpowered.  In actuality, as long as I don't need more than 100% for a situation, nothing is underpowered at all.
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:45:16 PM EDT
[#11]
Ricers lulz
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:46:04 PM EDT
[#12]
A lot of things will affect how responsive and 'peppy' a vehicle is.  HP alone is, usually, meaningless.
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:46:50 PM EDT
[#13]
It isn't about the horsepower girls.  It's about the skill of the driver.

One of these days you will figure that out.

Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:47:09 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
You're right OP.  

I have a vehicle with damn near as much HP as your honda, and I get along just fine

It's a hayabusa
View Quote





Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:47:16 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
Torque.




Or something...



I didn't even read.
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Yep.
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:47:20 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
A lot of things will affect how responsive and 'peppy' a vehicle is.  HP alone is, usually, meaningless.
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Horsepower is like sex and oxygen.

It's no big deal 'til you don't have enough.
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:47:28 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:
People actually do like power in their cars.  They just don't like to "floor it".

Sounds odd but it is true.  People want a car that can accelerate hard with little throttle because people still believe flooring it is "bad" for the engine.  A 270hp engine at 10% throttle moves a hell of a lot faster than a 100hp engine at 10% throttle.

I need to ask for 50-60% of my Miata in order to keep up with a new Camry leaving a light at a normal pace.  To other people that seems underpowered.  In actuality, as long as I don't need more than 100% for a situation, nothing is underpowered at all.
View Quote


Ain't that the truth. I cannot count the number of big HP cars I've seen idling away from stoplights. That V6 Camry may have pretty good 0-60 times, but not with Yoda there behind the wheel. "When 900 years old you reach, drive as well you will not!"
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:49:16 PM EDT
[#18]
My 285hp trailblazer ext rolls the fuck out for a big ass SUV. I'm happy with the 5.3L in it and don't know how it could be deemed as underpowered.

 
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:49:29 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:


Yet they were still more powerful than the prior generation, which many claim to yearn for...


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Why do internet parrots banter on about the old GM Vortec 5300s and Ford Modular 5.4s as "underpowered?"


Because they are. The vehicles those engines ended up in were dogs unless mods happened.
 


Yet they were still more powerful than the prior generation, which many claim to yearn for...


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


That too. I've heard many praises about the Ford 300ci I-6 that topped out at 150hp and 260 ft-lbs, and I haven't heard too much bitching about the GM 5.7s that made 225hp and 330 ft-lbs. But, Man... That Ford Modular 5.4 with 300hp and 365 ft-lbs just couldn't get the job done.
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:49:51 PM EDT
[#20]
a friend took me for a ride in a pretty good cobra replica once. i have owned plenty of  sport bikes and i can tell you, this Cobra was FUCKING FAST! biggest rush ever. you should try it once. you might get it then.
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:50:35 PM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:

Could have been an RS6 Avant.

ETA: Beat by your edit with the video.  S4 is still no slouch.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
More fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.


Of course, driving a fast car fast is even better.

It definitely helps to start with the slow car. I see lots of guys at autox days trying to man handle their new Z28 or Cobra around the track with reckless abandon and ending up getting schooled by an experience guy in a 96 Saturn.
 

the best is the episode of "are you faster than a redneck" where a young guy in an Audi estate (station wagon) absolutely crushes the guys driving an assortment of hopped up pony cars.

ar-jedi


Could have been an RS6 Avant.

ETA: Beat by your edit with the video.  S4 is still no slouch.

at the beginning of the show he is talking with the camera crew, and says "i could have brought my 911T but that would not be very sporting; so instead, i brought my wife's S4 wagon, it's her daily driver..."  

ar-jedi
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:51:10 PM EDT
[#22]
Wrong
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:51:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Ain't that the truth. I cannot count the number of big HP cars I've seen idling away from stoplights. That V6 Camry may have pretty good 0-60 times, but not with Yoda there behind the wheel. "When 900 years old you reach, drive as well you will not!"
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
People actually do like power in their cars.  They just don't like to "floor it".

Sounds odd but it is true.  People want a car that can accelerate hard with little throttle because people still believe flooring it is "bad" for the engine.  A 270hp engine at 10% throttle moves a hell of a lot faster than a 100hp engine at 10% throttle.

I need to ask for 50-60% of my Miata in order to keep up with a new Camry leaving a light at a normal pace.  To other people that seems underpowered.  In actuality, as long as I don't need more than 100% for a situation, nothing is underpowered at all.


Ain't that the truth. I cannot count the number of big HP cars I've seen idling away from stoplights. That V6 Camry may have pretty good 0-60 times, but not with Yoda there behind the wheel. "When 900 years old you reach, drive as well you will not!"



Why are you hating on Camrys?  

Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:52:18 PM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:
a friend took me for a ride in a pretty good cobra replica once. i have owned plenty of  sport bikes and i can tell you, this Cobra was FUCKING FAST! biggest rush ever. you should try it once. you might get it then.
View Quote

With thoes the power to weight is more than likely better than most bikes.
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:54:52 PM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:

With thoes the power to weight is more than likely better than most bikes.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
a friend took me for a ride in a pretty good cobra replica once. i have owned plenty of  sport bikes and i can tell you, this Cobra was FUCKING FAST! biggest rush ever. you should try it once. you might get it then.

With thoes the power to weight is more than likely better than most bikes.


You'll notice power to weight appeared nowhere in the OPs "musings".

Thus, lol.

Link Posted: 7/31/2014 2:56:53 PM EDT
[#26]
One of the locals has an Aluminum LS3 in his NB. He claims the car actually lost weight with the swap.



That combo (properly supported with brakes and tires) would change your mind for sure.

Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:03:05 PM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:
You're a strange bird.  This thread, and many others like it, especially as it relates to cars and guns, reinforces this thought.   Just because you can't think of any reason that 400+ HP in a daily driver can be a good thing, doesn't mean no one else can.
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If you're the guy that DDs a car that you also take to the drag strip on the weekends, it makes sense. I haven't met too many people who do that, though.

But 400+ HP is useless on public roads. It's like hunting deer at close range with a .50 BMG rifle. What's the point?
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:04:09 PM EDT
[#28]

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Quoted:


Torque.
Or something...







I didn't even read.
View Quote
This.

 
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:04:10 PM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:


If you're the guy that DDs a car that you also take to the drag strip on the weekends, it makes sense. I haven't met too many people who do that, though.

But 400+ HP is useless on public roads. It's like hunting deer at close range with a .50 BMG rifle. What's the point?
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
You're a strange bird.  This thread, and many others like it, especially as it relates to cars and guns, reinforces this thought.   Just because you can't think of any reason that 400+ HP in a daily driver can be a good thing, doesn't mean no one else can.


If you're the guy that DDs a car that you also take to the drag strip on the weekends, it makes sense. I haven't met too many people who do that, though.

But 400+ HP is useless on public roads. It's like hunting deer at close range with a .50 BMG rifle. What's the point?

to make sure the deer is dead and we fly bye your carolla
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:06:20 PM EDT
[#30]
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Quoted:
One of the locals has an Aluminum LS3 in his NB. He claims the car actually lost weight with the swap.

That combo (properly supported with brakes and tires) would change your mind for sure.
View Quote


BULLSHIT.  No way in fuck it lost weight.  The ENTIRE driveline needs to be upgraded to handle that power.  On top of that, the power plant frame would never be retained which means you would need to create a transmission mount from scratch.  The diff is no where near strong enough.  Sure, block for block the LS3 is probably lighter.  However, only a block does not a swap make.

On top of all that it wouldn't move for shit.  The Miata is simply not a big enough car to fit enough tire under it to effectively use that kind of power.  I knew a guy at a local car meet that put an LS3 in his NB.  A month later it spun 2 bearings so he said, "Fuck it, forced upgrade."  He rebuilt it with a rear mounted turbo and put over 700hp down on a dyno.  It is nothing more than a giant expensive tiny joke.  Completely worthless car.

Then you need to tackle the fact that the Miata is a wet noodle of a chassis.  That kind of power will twist it apart in under a year.  So the only long term solution is to install the FM chassis brace kit as well as the Frog Arms.  Those are just the simple chassis upgrades.  Alone they weigh over 50lbs.
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:06:47 PM EDT
[#31]

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Quoted:





to make sure the deer is dead and we fly bye your carolla
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Quoted:



Quoted:


Quoted:

You're a strange bird.  This thread, and many others like it, especially as it relates to cars and guns, reinforces this thought.   Just because you can't think of any reason that 400+ HP in a daily driver can be a good thing, doesn't mean no one else can.




If you're the guy that DDs a car that you also take to the drag strip on the weekends, it makes sense. I haven't met too many people who do that, though.



But 400+ HP is useless on public roads. It's like hunting deer at close range with a .50 BMG rifle. What's the point?



to make sure the deer is dead and we fly bye your carolla
Lmfao

 
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:07:28 PM EDT
[#32]
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Quoted:


If you're the guy that DDs a car that you also take to the drag strip on the weekends, it makes sense. I haven't met too many people who do that, though.

But 400+ HP is useless on public roads. It's like hunting deer at close range with a .50 BMG rifle. What's the point?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
You're a strange bird.  This thread, and many others like it, especially as it relates to cars and guns, reinforces this thought.   Just because you can't think of any reason that 400+ HP in a daily driver can be a good thing, doesn't mean no one else can.


If you're the guy that DDs a car that you also take to the drag strip on the weekends, it makes sense. I haven't met too many people who do that, though.

But 400+ HP is useless on public roads. It's like hunting deer at close range with a .50 BMG rifle. What's the point?


You forgot the part about the 55mph max speed limit.
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:09:51 PM EDT
[#33]

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Quoted:
BULLSHIT.  No way in fuck it lost weight.  The ENTIRE driveline needs to be upgraded to handle that power.  On top of that, the power plant frame would never be retained which means you would need to create a transmission mount from scratch.  The diff is no where near strong enough.  Sure, block for block the LS3 is probably lighter.  However, only a block does not a swap make.



On top of all that it wouldn't move for shit.  The Miata is simply not a big enough car to fit enough tire under it to effectively use that kind of power.  I knew a guy at a local car meet that put an LS3 in his NB.  A month later it spun 2 bearings so he said, "Fuck it, forced upgrade."  He rebuilt it with a rear mounted turbo and put over 700hp down on a dyno.  It is nothing more than a giant expensive tiny joke.  Completely worthless car.
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Quoted:



Quoted:

One of the locals has an Aluminum LS3 in his NB. He claims the car actually lost weight with the swap.



That combo (properly supported with brakes and tires) would change your mind for sure.





BULLSHIT.  No way in fuck it lost weight.  The ENTIRE driveline needs to be upgraded to handle that power.  On top of that, the power plant frame would never be retained which means you would need to create a transmission mount from scratch.  The diff is no where near strong enough.  Sure, block for block the LS3 is probably lighter.  However, only a block does not a swap make.



On top of all that it wouldn't move for shit.  The Miata is simply not a big enough car to fit enough tire under it to effectively use that kind of power.  I knew a guy at a local car meet that put an LS3 in his NB.  A month later it spun 2 bearings so he said, "Fuck it, forced upgrade."  He rebuilt it with a rear mounted turbo and put over 700hp down on a dyno.  It is nothing more than a giant expensive tiny joke.  Completely worthless car.


I've never weighed it, just what he told me while we were chatting. Its bone stock, and he says that there is zero need for power adders as it is already on the limits of control. He has decent rubber on the back and I'm pretty sure its tied to a T56 (not sure what those weigh). It seems to behave fairly well on the autox tarmac.



 
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:11:12 PM EDT
[#34]
LOL

My motorcycle has more HP than your cars
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:13:09 PM EDT
[#35]
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Quoted:


why would I? I can buy a 24 year old motorcycle that will leave a Dodge Hellcat driver embarrassed.

and if your wondering wtf bike that is? its the old, SLOW, 120 ish HP Kawasaki ZX-11D. 600 cc sport bikes of 25 years ago will dust your 400 HP mustangs and camaros and get 40 mpg.
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Quoted:
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you have never driven a car with REAL power.


why would I? I can buy a 24 year old motorcycle that will leave a Dodge Hellcat driver embarrassed.

and if your wondering wtf bike that is? its the old, SLOW, 120 ish HP Kawasaki ZX-11D. 600 cc sport bikes of 25 years ago will dust your 400 HP mustangs and camaros and get 40 mpg.


Thats where you went wrong assuming 400 crank hp is the norm. Earth to Howie Phelterbush.. It takes a new exhaust system to put down over 450rwhp with those new cars.
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:13:34 PM EDT
[#36]
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Quoted:


I guess that depends on what you define as "REAL" power.

I've driven a Challeger R/T, a Chrysler 300C SRT-8, a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8, and a new Camaro SS. With almost all of the above, I got more enjoyment from the sound of the V8 than their actual power.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you have never driven a car with REAL power.


I guess that depends on what you define as "REAL" power.

I've driven a Challeger R/T, a Chrysler 300C SRT-8, a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8, and a new Camaro SS. With almost all of the above, I got more enjoyment from the sound of the V8 than their actual power.


Neither of those are very fast.
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:14:29 PM EDT
[#37]
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Quoted:


why would I? I can buy a 24 year old motorcycle that will leave a Dodge Hellcat driver embarrassed.

and if your wondering wtf bike that is? its the old, SLOW, 120 ish HP Kawasaki ZX-11D. 600 cc sport bikes of 25 years ago will dust your 400 HP mustangs and camaros and get 40 mpg.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you have never driven a car with REAL power.


why would I? I can buy a 24 year old motorcycle that will leave a Dodge Hellcat driver embarrassed.

and if your wondering wtf bike that is? its the old, SLOW, 120 ish HP Kawasaki ZX-11D. 600 cc sport bikes of 25 years ago will dust your 400 HP mustangs and camaros and get 40 mpg.


400 hp...

Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:16:13 PM EDT
[#38]
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Quoted:
LOL

My motorcycle has more HP than your cars
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pics?
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:16:19 PM EDT
[#39]
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If you're the guy that DDs a car that you also take to the drag strip on the weekends, it makes sense. I haven't met too many people who do that, though.

But 400+ HP is useless on public roads. It's like hunting deer at close range with a .50 BMG rifle. What's the point?
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You're a strange bird.  This thread, and many others like it, especially as it relates to cars and guns, reinforces this thought.   Just because you can't think of any reason that 400+ HP in a daily driver can be a good thing, doesn't mean no one else can.


If you're the guy that DDs a car that you also take to the drag strip on the weekends, it makes sense. I haven't met too many people who do that, though.

But 400+ HP is useless on public roads. It's like hunting deer at close range with a .50 BMG rifle. What's the point?

Nelson disagrees...  
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:16:49 PM EDT
[#40]
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the best is the episode of "are you faster than a redneck" where a young guy in an Audi S4 estate (station wagon) absolutely crushes the guys driving an assortment of hopped up pony cars.

ar-jedi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNJEQ90_wFk
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More fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.


Of course, driving a fast car fast is even better.

It definitely helps to start with the slow car. I see lots of guys at autox days trying to man handle their new Z28 or Cobra around the track with reckless abandon and ending up getting schooled by an experience guy in a 96 Saturn.
 

the best is the episode of "are you faster than a redneck" where a young guy in an Audi S4 estate (station wagon) absolutely crushes the guys driving an assortment of hopped up pony cars.

ar-jedi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNJEQ90_wFk


Audi, handing RWD, shitty handling American muscle cars their ass around a track with corners?

Neva been dun (and then banned from Trans AM) befoe.




Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:17:47 PM EDT
[#41]
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Torque.




Or something...



I didn't even read.
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came to post this.

Ft Lbs for the win.
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:17:56 PM EDT
[#42]

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Neither of those are very fast.
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I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you have never driven a car with REAL power.




I guess that depends on what you define as "REAL" power.



I've driven a Challeger R/T, a Chrysler 300C SRT-8, a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8, and a new Camaro SS. With almost all of the above, I got more enjoyment from the sound of the V8 than their actual power.




Neither of those are very fast.






 
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:18:15 PM EDT
[#43]
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BULLSHIT.  No way in fuck it lost weight.  The ENTIRE driveline needs to be upgraded to handle that power.  On top of that, the power plant frame would never be retained which means you would need to create a transmission mount from scratch.  The diff is no where near strong enough.  Sure, block for block the LS3 is probably lighter.  However, only a block does not a swap make.

On top of all that it wouldn't move for shit.  The Miata is simply not a big enough car to fit enough tire under it to effectively use that kind of power.  I knew a guy at a local car meet that put an LS3 in his NB.  A month later it spun 2 bearings so he said, "Fuck it, forced upgrade."  He rebuilt it with a rear mounted turbo and put over 700hp down on a dyno.  It is nothing more than a giant expensive tiny joke.  Completely worthless car.

Then you need to tackle the fact that the Miata is a wet noodle of a chassis.  That kind of power will twist it apart in under a year.  So the only long term solution is to install the FM chassis brace kit as well as the Frog Arms.  Those are just the simple chassis upgrades.  Alone they weigh over 50lbs.
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One of the locals has an Aluminum LS3 in his NB. He claims the car actually lost weight with the swap.

That combo (properly supported with brakes and tires) would change your mind for sure.


BULLSHIT.  No way in fuck it lost weight.  The ENTIRE driveline needs to be upgraded to handle that power.  On top of that, the power plant frame would never be retained which means you would need to create a transmission mount from scratch.  The diff is no where near strong enough.  Sure, block for block the LS3 is probably lighter.  However, only a block does not a swap make.

On top of all that it wouldn't move for shit.  The Miata is simply not a big enough car to fit enough tire under it to effectively use that kind of power.  I knew a guy at a local car meet that put an LS3 in his NB.  A month later it spun 2 bearings so he said, "Fuck it, forced upgrade."  He rebuilt it with a rear mounted turbo and put over 700hp down on a dyno.  It is nothing more than a giant expensive tiny joke.  Completely worthless car.

Then you need to tackle the fact that the Miata is a wet noodle of a chassis.  That kind of power will twist it apart in under a year.  So the only long term solution is to install the FM chassis brace kit as well as the Frog Arms.  Those are just the simple chassis upgrades.  Alone they weigh over 50lbs.




Hmmm
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:19:24 PM EDT
[#44]
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LOL

My motorcycle has more HP than your cars
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LOL my cars have more armor than your bicycle.  And my cars don't tip over when I leave them alone.  And I can drive my car in the rain.  And my car has A/C and heat.  My car stops sooner.  My car doesn't throw me out of it when I lock up the front wheel.  My car has a comfortable passenger seat for a woman and she doesn't have to wear a helmet every time she rides in it.  It has quality audio.  Quality as in, you can actually hear it, clearly, everything from 20Hz to 20,000Hz.  My car has a reverse gear.  

Suck it!  Sick burn.

Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:19:54 PM EDT
[#45]
HP numbers can be deceptive in advertising but if you look at the Tq / HP graphs that the engine produced on the dyno then you can get an idea how fast of a vehicle it's going to be compared to another.
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:20:39 PM EDT
[#46]
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Quoted:


If you're the guy that DDs a car that you also take to the drag strip on the weekends, it makes sense. I haven't met too many people who do that, though.

But 400+ HP is useless on public roads. It's like hunting deer at close range with a .50 BMG rifle. What's the point?
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You're a strange bird.  This thread, and many others like it, especially as it relates to cars and guns, reinforces this thought.   Just because you can't think of any reason that 400+ HP in a daily driver can be a good thing, doesn't mean no one else can.


If you're the guy that DDs a car that you also take to the drag strip on the weekends, it makes sense. I haven't met too many people who do that, though.

But 400+ HP is useless on public roads. It's like hunting deer at close range with a .50 BMG rifle. What's the point?



Bullshit.

I have about 400 hp worth of small block in a '79 F 150 with 3.00 gears, 32" mud rubber and a bulldog 4 speed. Try towing anything with that set-up and a 225 hp small block and get back to me.

OH yeah, it gets right at 16 mpg. running down the highway at about 75 and is easily capable of 100+mph all day long. The stock motor I put in it got around 11.

Know why?


When it comes to hp, I subscribe to theory that if some is good, more is better and too much is just enough.

YMMV  
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:21:27 PM EDT
[#47]
I disagree. My slow car is a 2013 STi.
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:22:48 PM EDT
[#48]
If, for some reason, I had a spare LS engine and some Corvette parts lying about, I'd build a Factory Five GSM out of them and not bother with trying to shove them in a Miata.
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:22:53 PM EDT
[#49]
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I disagree. My slow car is a 2013 STi.
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You tell the truth.  It is indeed slow.
Link Posted: 7/31/2014 3:24:06 PM EDT
[#50]
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If, for some reason, I had a spare LS engine and some Corvette parts lying about, I'd build a Factory Five GSM out of them and not bother with trying to shove them in a Miata.
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Fact.  Put the right parts in the right platform.
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