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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:14:55 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Arfcoms new obsession with rating countries good betterer or bestestest in geopolitical alliances is fucking ridiculous and juvenile. I think it's pretty much human nature to rate things good, better, best. Everyone wants to know where everyone else stands. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:15:07 PM EDT
[#2]
I'm pretty sure it's a tossup between Canada and Britain.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:16:07 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Arfcoms new obsession with rating countries good betterer or bestestest in geopolitical alliances is fucking ridiculous and juvenile. IMO, the intent of these threads is to encourage anti Israeli sentiment. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:16:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Israel will do what's best for Israel. I have enormous respect for that. When Netanyahu talks about protecting the people, he means it. I wish we had a man at our helm with the same conviction. We're allies as long as we have similar goals. We should have similar goals.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:17:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Israel is for Israel and will sell out the US if it works in Israel's interest. Does OP realize how much spying and lobbying they do here?
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:18:28 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IMO, the intent of these threads is to encourage anti Israeli sentiment. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Arfcoms new obsession with rating countries good betterer or bestestest in geopolitical alliances is fucking ridiculous and juvenile. IMO, the intent of these threads is to encourage anti Israeli sentiment. Turn off the news. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:19:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IMO, the intent of these threads is to encourage anti Israeli sentiment. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Arfcoms new obsession with rating countries good betterer or bestestest in geopolitical alliances is fucking ridiculous and juvenile. IMO, the intent of these threads is to encourage anti Israeli sentiment. Nonsense. I think that one of the leading Conservative voices in the country making the claim that Israel is our closest ally warrants discussion among conservatives. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:19:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd say Canada, Australia or England /this by a large margin. I'd throw Japan in there before Israel. As long as we're spending a billion dollars every couple of years supporting the Israelis they're glad to take our money but at heart their interests are what's driving them. Less so with the other's mention IMHO. When you're that tiny and under that much pressure it is only natural. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:20:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Israel needs the USA more than we need them.
That being said it's the only nation in the Middle East that's not run like it's 200 B.C. And maybe even all of the African Continent or the other neo Asiatic Muslim nations. And there are millions of people in this country including myself that would make quite a showing if some President actually gave real thought of throwing Israel to the figurative wolves. We can count on Israel pretty much if both nations interests are aligned for that sphere of the world. But maybe it's just my older generation thinking here but I believe we can count on the Brits to do the right thing with us more than most. That's my opinion. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:20:38 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why? Now that the Cold War is over, they serve no purpose. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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lol lol - That's stupid! Of course they're are closest ally! or lol - That's stupid! They aren't an our closest ally at all! 
I'm European and therefore, by definition, anti-Semitic - so take a guess.  
Actually, I think the US is an Israeli ally, but Israel is not a US ally, so it's a very one-sided "alliance" But I am okay with that. Israel should be supported. Why? Now that the Cold War is over, they serve no purpose. It was never about the Cold War. Your argument might make sense if we were talking about Turkey. IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature. 
Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:20:41 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think it's pretty much human nature to rate things good, better, best. Everyone wants to know where everyone else stands. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Arfcoms new obsession with rating countries good betterer or bestestest in geopolitical alliances is fucking ridiculous and juvenile. I think it's pretty much human nature to rate things good, better, best. Everyone wants to know where everyone else stands. comparing apples oranges and potatoes and then asking what the best BBQ place is. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:21:43 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: comparing apples oranges and potatoes and then asking what the best BBQ place is. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Arfcoms new obsession with rating countries good betterer or bestestest in geopolitical alliances is fucking ridiculous and juvenile. I think it's pretty much human nature to rate things good, better, best. Everyone wants to know where everyone else stands. comparing apples oranges and potatoes and then asking what the best BBQ place is.  |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:21:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Israel will do what's best for Israel. I have enormous respect for that. When Netanyahu talks about protecting the people, he means it. I wish we had a man at our helm with the same conviction. We're allies as long as we have similar goals. We should have similar goals. Agreed. Israel is a good democracy surrounded by savages and mad men. I support them 110% but I'm not naive enough to consider them a close ally. They will support us when it's in their best interest, much like we do them. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:22:07 PM EDT
[#14]
Not even close. I would not even call them an ally in the traditional sense. We are tied to them for largely domestic political reasons, and actually gain very little from them.....they on the other hand gain much from us. It is more of a parasitic relationship like many of our ME allies.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:22:15 PM EDT
[#15]
Is Israel our closest ally? Haha, no!
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:23:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was never about the Cold War. Your argument might make sense if we were talking about Turkey. IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature.
Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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lol lol - That's stupid! Of course they're are closest ally! or lol - That's stupid! They aren't an our closest ally at all!
I'm European and therefore, by definition, anti-Semitic - so take a guess.
Actually, I think the US is an Israeli ally, but Israel is not a US ally, so it's a very one-sided "alliance" But I am okay with that. Israel should be supported. Why? Now that the Cold War is over, they serve no purpose. It was never about the Cold War. Your argument might make sense if we were talking about Turkey. IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature.
Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. I empathize for the Jews who suffered the Holocaust but I sure as fuck don't feel any guilt. Fuck. That. I probably had an ancestor who owned slaves. At that point in time, family of mine in Georgia were of some means. You know what? Same story. I feel empathy for victims but no guilt whatsoever for the deeds of the perpetrators. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:24:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I empathize for the Jews who suffered the Holocaust but I sure as fuck don't feel any guilt. Fuck. That. I probably had an ancestor who owned slaves. At that point in time, family of mine in Georgia were of some means. You know what? Same story. I feel empathy for victims but no guilt whatsoever for the deeds of the perpetrators. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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... I'm European and therefore, by definition, anti-Semitic - so take a guess.
Actually, I think the US is an Israeli ally, but Israel is not a US ally, so it's a very one-sided "alliance" But I am okay with that. Israel should be supported. Why? Now that the Cold War is over, they serve no purpose. It was never about the Cold War. Your argument might make sense if we were talking about Turkey. IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature.
Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. I empathize for the Jews who suffered the Holocaust but I sure as fuck don't feel any guilt. Fuck. That. I probably had an ancestor who owned slaves. At that point in time, family of mine in Georgia were of some means. You know what? Same story. I feel empathy for victims but no guilt whatsoever for the deeds of the perpetrators. Just my opinion. 
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:24:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Great Britain and Canada
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:24:56 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature.
Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. So is that like white guilt but different?
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:25:37 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So is that like white guilt but different? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature.
Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. So is that like white guilt but different? It's generalized western civilization guilt.
We have basically EVERYTHING ELSE to feel good about and brag about, but that one stain should give us pause. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:26:22 PM EDT
[#21]
No. They're not our best ally. Our intelligence services cooperate, and they buy some weapons from us (with our money), but beyond that, they're out for themselves. How often do we catch the Aussies or the Canadians spying on us or selling our technology to China? And how many times have Israeli soldiers fought alongside ours? The answer to both questions is never. I don't blame the Israelis for their conduct against the Palestinians - it's a zero-sum conflict - but I don't buy the Zionist propaganda about Israeli purity that passes for insight in America, and I certainly don't get a thrill up my leg at the thought of them smiting the Arabs. Their fight isn't ours except insofar as we interject ourselves into it. We don't gain as much from our special relationship as it costs us, either.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:27:44 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's generalized western civilization guilt.
We have basically EVERYTHING ELSE to feel good about and brag about, but that one stain should give us pause. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature.
Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. So is that like white guilt but different? It's generalized western civilization guilt.
We have basically EVERYTHING ELSE to feel good about and brag about, but that one stain should give us pause. The perpetrators are long dead and buried. Brave men and women in your home country suffered at their hands to protect fleeing Jews and help them escape to England and Sweden. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:28:05 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's generalized western civilization guilt.
We have basically EVERYTHING ELSE to feel good about and brag about, but that one stain should give us pause. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature.
Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. So is that like white guilt but different? It's generalized western civilization guilt.
We have basically EVERYTHING ELSE to feel good about and brag about, but that one stain should give us pause. I feel we repaid whatever share of that guilt we had by firebombing the german civilians repeatedly 
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:28:40 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd say Canada, Australia or England And. All hail the Anglosphere. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:29:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not even close. I would not even call them an ally in the traditional sense. We are tied to them for largely domestic political reasons, and actually gain very little from them.....they on the other hand gain much from us. It is more of a parasitic relationship like many of our ME allies. This. Those fuckers spy and have sold us out before. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:29:48 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And. All hail the Anglosphere. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'd say Canada, Australia or England And. All hail the Anglosphere. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:30:35 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's generalized western civilization guilt. We have basically EVERYTHING ELSE to feel good about and brag about, but that one stain should give us pause. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature. Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. So is that like white guilt but different? It's generalized western civilization guilt. We have basically EVERYTHING ELSE to feel good about and brag about, but that one stain should give us pause. I don't know what the Hell for! How many people died destroying The Nazis? If The West should feel bad about anything then it should feel bad for turning over half of Europe to the goddamn Russians after WWII. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:30:49 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I feel we repaid whatever share of that guilt we had by firebombing the german civilians Quote HistoryQuoted:
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IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature.
Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. So is that like white guilt but different? It's generalized western civilization guilt.
We have basically EVERYTHING ELSE to feel good about and brag about, but that one stain should give us pause. I feel we repaid whatever share of that guilt we had by firebombing the german civilians It was a great start. But I feel that the guarantee of the Jewish state of Israel should be a western (mostly European) obligation for the next hundred years or so. Or maybe thousand. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:30:51 PM EDT
[#29]
Canada, Limeys, Australia, and Poland.
I'm almost sure that from time to time there is a Canadian general at the helm in NORAD right here in the good old USA. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:31:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's generalized western civilization guilt.
We have basically EVERYTHING ELSE to feel good about and brag about, but that one stain should give us pause. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature.
Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. So is that like white guilt but different? It's generalized western civilization guilt.
We have basically EVERYTHING ELSE to feel good about and brag about, but that one stain should give us pause. So should the killing of literally millions of non-Jews during that period. This myopic obsession or concentration with the suffering of Jews is a bit tiring honestly. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:31:42 PM EDT
[#31]
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Israel needs the USA more than we need them. That being said it's the only nation in the Middle East that's not run like it's 200 B.C. And maybe even all of the African Continent or the other neo Asiatic Muslim nations. And there are millions of people in this country including myself that would make quite a showing if some President actually gave real thought of throwing Israel to the figurative wolves. We can count on Israel pretty much if both nations interests are aligned for that sphere of the world. But maybe it's just my older generation thinking here but I believe we can count on the Brits to do the right thing with us more than most. That's my opinion. You can insert any country we are allied with in there, and the statement is still true. the main reason I think this new "rating" trend is silly. Ffs the definition of alliance is a pact to secure common interest. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:32:11 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's generalized western civilization guilt.
We have basically EVERYTHING ELSE to feel good about and brag about, but that one stain should give us pause. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature.
Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. So is that like white guilt but different? It's generalized western civilization guilt.
We have basically EVERYTHING ELSE to feel good about and brag about, but that one stain should give us pause. I'm not sure that I would classify the Holocaust as the "one" stain that should give pause to the West? 
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:32:40 PM EDT
[#33]
We got your hat.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:33:02 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not sure that I would classify the Holocaust as the "one" stain that should give pause to the West? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature.
Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. So is that like white guilt but different? It's generalized western civilization guilt.
We have basically EVERYTHING ELSE to feel good about and brag about, but that one stain should give us pause. I'm not sure that I would classify the Holocaust as the "one" stain that should give pause to the West? Never forget... Neanderthalis... 
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:33:28 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know what the Hell for! How many people died destroying The Nazis? If The West should feel bad about anything then it should feel bad for turning over half of Europe to the goddamn Russians after WWII. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature.
Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. So is that like white guilt but different? It's generalized western civilization guilt.
We have basically EVERYTHING ELSE to feel good about and brag about, but that one stain should give us pause. I don't know what the Hell for! How many people died destroying The Nazis? If The West should feel bad about anything then it should feel bad for turning over half of Europe to the goddamn Russians after WWII. Did the US join the war in 1941 for the purpose of saving the Jews?
I'm not saying the US should be primarily responsible. I believe Europe should be primarily responsible for protecting Israel - but I am happy to see the US carry that burden. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:34:10 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd say Canada, Australia or England My thoughts exactly. Anglo-sphere or bust. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:34:59 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was a great start. But I feel that the guarantee of the Jewish state of Israel should be a western (mostly European) obligation for the next hundred years or so. Or maybe thousand. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I feel we repaid whatever share of that guilt we had by firebombing the german civilians It was a great start. But I feel that the guarantee of the Jewish state of Israel should be a western (mostly European) obligation for the next hundred years or so. Or maybe thousand.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:36:52 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. Those fuckers spy and have sold us out before. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not even close. I would not even call them an ally in the traditional sense. We are tied to them for largely domestic political reasons, and actually gain very little from them.....they on the other hand gain much from us. It is more of a parasitic relationship like many of our ME allies. This. Those fuckers spy and have sold us out before. Again, shall we go through the long list of countries that want to see Israel wiped off the map, that the US has and continues to give money to? The entire leadership of the EU has been tapped by the nsa. We'd sell out the Brits tech (lol) to Australia in a heartbeat if it were in our best interest to. Point being, we do what's best for us first, and what's best for everyone else second. As it should be. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:37:03 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did the US join the war in 1941 for the purpose of saving the Jews?
I'm not saying the US should be primarily responsible. I believe Europe should be primarily responsible for protecting Israel - but I am happy to see the US carry that burden. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature.
Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. So is that like white guilt but different? It's generalized western civilization guilt.
We have basically EVERYTHING ELSE to feel good about and brag about, but that one stain should give us pause. I don't know what the Hell for! How many people died destroying The Nazis? If The West should feel bad about anything then it should feel bad for turning over half of Europe to the goddamn Russians after WWII. Did the US join the war in 1941 for the purpose of saving the Jews?
I'm not saying the US should be primarily responsible. I believe Europe should be primarily responsible for protecting Israel - but I am happy to see the US carry that burden. Um... what percentage of blame do you think the USA carries for the holocaust, exactly? NM. I mistook you. At least, I hope I did. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:37:50 PM EDT
[#40]
Lol no
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:38:14 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did the US join the war in 1941 for the purpose of saving the Jews? I'm not saying the US should be primarily responsible. I believe Europe should be primarily responsible for protecting Israel - but I am happy to see the US carry that burden. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So is that like white guilt but different? It's generalized western civilization guilt. We have basically EVERYTHING ELSE to feel good about and brag about, but that one stain should give us pause. I don't know what the Hell for! How many people died destroying The Nazis? If The West should feel bad about anything then it should feel bad for turning over half of Europe to the goddamn Russians after WWII. Did the US join the war in 1941 for the purpose of saving the Jews? I'm not saying the US should be primarily responsible. I believe Europe should be primarily responsible for protecting Israel - but I am happy to see the US carry that burden. Well, we did agree that the primary focus of the war should be to defeat the Nazis, when what brought us into the war in the first place was a Japanese attack. And we kept quiet about having to re-conquer the Pacific, pretty much single handed. I'm just saying. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:38:49 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd say Canada, Australia or England This, and add the Poles. They really want a US base there |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:38:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not in the world, but definitely in the region. This ^ |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:40:00 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All hail the Anglosphere.  |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:40:06 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It was never about the Cold War. Your argument might make sense if we were talking about Turkey. IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature.
Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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lol lol - That's stupid! Of course they're are closest ally! or lol - That's stupid! They aren't an our closest ally at all!
I'm European and therefore, by definition, anti-Semitic - so take a guess.
Actually, I think the US is an Israeli ally, but Israel is not a US ally, so it's a very one-sided "alliance" But I am okay with that. Israel should be supported. Why? Now that the Cold War is over, they serve no purpose. It was never about the Cold War. Your argument might make sense if we were talking about Turkey. IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature.
Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. I understand your answer and Euro guilt, yet if that is your argument... then they should have been given a state carved out of Germany, not the Middle East. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:41:26 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's generalized western civilization guilt.
We have basically EVERYTHING ELSE to feel good about and brag about, but that one stain should give us pause. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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IMO, the Western world still needs another generation of self-flagellation and guilt for the Shoah. Regardless of what justifications and rationalization are raised, the civilized West needs more penitence to erase the horrifying stain on modern civilization that the Holocaust represents. Sure, it reared its head in Germany, but who is to say the same couldn't have happened somewhere else, given similar economic circumstances and a charismatic leader? Anyone who believes so is fundamentally ignorant of human nature.
Israel may not be the perfect vehicle for that, but it's the best we got. So is that like white guilt but different? It's generalized western civilization guilt.
We have basically EVERYTHING ELSE to feel good about and brag about, but that one stain should give us pause. More like generalized Germany's hat guilt... Religious nuttjobbery seems to be the reason the Israel first crowd has so much steam in the US. Not out of some repressed, mass guilt or culture specific psychological disorder. The lesson that should be taken away from the Holocaust is that genocide and oppression demands action, regardless of who the victim is. Not that we some how owe "the Jews" as if Israel represents the complete Jewish diaspora. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:43:23 PM EDT
[#47]
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Never forget... Neanderthalis...
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I'm not sure that I would classify the Holocaust as the "one" stain that should give pause to the West? Never forget... Neanderthalis...
You're going to need a much longer Internet post if you're going to condemn western civilization on past transgressions. |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:43:59 PM EDT
[#48]
Not that my opinion means a fuckstain in the world, but I think we, the US, should gladly take on the role of protecting the Jews in Israel from certain genocide by the arabs & Muslims, even if it may be politically burdensome to do so.
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:44:26 PM EDT
[#49]
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You can insert any country we are allied with in there, and the statement is still true. the main reason I think this new "rating" trend is silly. Ffs the definition of alliance is a pact to secure common interest. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Israel needs the USA more than we need them. That being said it's the only nation in the Middle East that's not run like it's 200 B.C. And maybe even all of the African Continent or the other neo Asiatic Muslim nations. And there are millions of people in this country including myself that would make quite a showing if some President actually gave real thought of throwing Israel to the figurative wolves. We can count on Israel pretty much if both nations interests are aligned for that sphere of the world. But maybe it's just my older generation thinking here but I believe we can count on the Brits to do the right thing with us more than most. That's my opinion. You can insert any country we are allied with in there, and the statement is still true. the main reason I think this new "rating" trend is silly. Ffs the definition of alliance is a pact to secure common interest. In all things military what country has more common interest with us than Canada? |
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Posted: 7/29/2014 7:44:59 PM EDT
[#50]
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This, and add the Poles. They really want a US base there Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'd say Canada, Australia or England This, and add the Poles. They really want a US base there If I were single and we put a base in Poland, I'd join the Army tomorrow if they could guarantee me a post there. |
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