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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:40:04 PM EDT
[#1]
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Do you know what happens when a fixed gear aircraft touches down on water? They're not just going to settle in. Most likely the aircraft flips, and the people on board get knocked unconscious and/or drown. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Dick should have went for the water Seriously this. No, he shouldn't have. Do you know what happens when a fixed gear aircraft touches down on water? They're not just going to settle in. Most likely the aircraft flips, and the people on board get knocked unconscious and/or drown. Better than mowing down a family. Maybe he should have landed farther inland. Anywhere but there. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:40:22 PM EDT
[#2]
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Whistle tips... TRG Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They need to put horns on those fucking things.. Whistle tips... TRG The Germans already invented that. See also Jericho Trumpet. 
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:40:26 PM EDT
[#3]
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So it is morally acceptable to risk the death of uninvolved persons rather than your own? I'm sure the pilot is elated that he killed someone. 
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:40:48 PM EDT
[#4]
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Oh I get it. The mans life was less important than the asshole and his passenger Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Seriously this. No, he shouldn't have. Do you know what happens when a fixed gear aircraft touches down on water? They're not just going to settle in. Most likely the aircraft flips, and the people on board get knocked unconscious and/or drown. +1 I'm going to side with this. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:41:55 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So it is morally acceptable to risk the death of uninvolved persons rather than your own? No. Planes should be banned. ...and cars. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:42:15 PM EDT
[#6]
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Better than mowing down a family. Maybe he should have landed farther inland. Anywhere but there. You do know that it is possible to make the best possible decision at the time and still have a bad outcome? |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:42:31 PM EDT
[#7]
Was the engine out....? wondering how they didn't hear it and see it approaching.
Pilot probably didn't see the people until it was too late to turn around/change course. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:43:17 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He followed the ditching procedure for the Cherokee exactly. It sucks that the guy got hit and killed, but the pilot most likely didn't even see him until it was too late. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Oh I get it. The mans life was less important than the asshole and his passenger He followed the ditching procedure for the Cherokee exactly. It sucks that the guy got hit and killed, but the pilot most likely didn't even see him until it was too late. "The aircraft was ditched successfully in the sea after a burning smell and smoke became apparent in the cabin and the engine began to run roughly. The two occupants were able to vacate the aircraft and board their life raft before the aircraft sank. " "At about 1030 Eastern Standard Time on 23 May 2007, a Piper Aircraft Inc. PA-32-260 aircraft, registered VH-PYD (PYD), departed Horn Island, Queensland, for a visual flight rules charter flight to Warraber Island, Queensland, with the pilot and three passengers onboard. Approximately 25 NM from Warraber Island, the aircraft experienced difficulties with the powerplant and was forced to ditch into the waters of the Torres Strait. Having received only minor injuries, the occupants exited the aircraft before it sank. The occupants were located and rescued within an hour of the ditching." "Beaches with long, straight stretches, where you can land on wet, hard sand, are attractive landing sites. Unfortunately, these beaches are often covered with people. The only alternative in such a situation might be to land offshore. Remember to touch down beyond the breaking waves; landing in high surf often overturns the aircraft, trapping the occupants. If you're near islands, land along the lee shore where seas and swells are smaller. The greatest challenge in surviving a ditching is not the landing. Hypothermia, the reduction of body temperature, claims nearly half the victims of ditchings. If you're over open water, look for boats and land near one to get assistance. If you can, overfly the boat to attract attention before ditching." The list goes on and on. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:43:53 PM EDT
[#9]
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You do know that it is possible to make the best possible decision at the time and still have a bad outcome? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Better than mowing down a family. Maybe he should have landed farther inland. Anywhere but there. You do know that it is possible to make the best possible decision at the time and still have a bad outcome? If that dick pilot had just killed your wife and critically injured your kid, would you be sympathizing with the pilot for safely landing his plane on a narrow stretch of sand other than miles of open water? I'll just go ahead and say no, you wouldn't be. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:43:58 PM EDT
[#10]
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Was the engine out....? wondering how they didn't hear it and see it approaching. I'd wager so. Gliders are spooky quiet, and the sound of the surf couldn't have helped. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:44:50 PM EDT
[#11]
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Whether you get out of bed or not, everyone assumes the risk of bad things happening every day.......... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Do you know what happens when a fixed gear aircraft touches down on water? They're not just going to settle in. Most likely the aircraft flips, and the people on board get knocked unconscious and/or drown. Assuming he had the chance to hit the water or clip a random guy walking on the beach (perhaps a big assumption) he should hit the water. Pilot and his passengers assumed the risk of bad things happening. Guy walking down the beach ... not so much. Whether you get out of bed or not, everyone assumes the risk of bad things happening every day.......... Horseshit. People manage their day to day activities based on acceptable risk. The chance of getting killed by an airplane while strolling down the beach is not a risk anyone should have an expectation of. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:45:07 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Was the engine out....? wondering how they didn't hear it and see it approaching. Pilot probably didn't see the people until it was too late to turn around/change course. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:45:40 PM EDT
[#13]
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I'd wager so. Gliders are spooky quiet, and the sound of the surf couldn't have helped. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Was the engine out....? wondering how they didn't hear it and see it approaching. I'd wager so. Gliders are spooky quiet, and the sound of the surf couldn't have helped. I'd agree, with the only obvious prop strike is where it impacted ground at the end. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:46:43 PM EDT
[#14]
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The surf can be pretty loud and the wind direction play a huge part in whether you can hear something like that coming or not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Was the engine out....? wondering how they didn't hear it and see it approaching. Pilot probably didn't see the people until it was too late to turn around/change course. Well sitting on the beach two weeks ago you could hear the Cessna's coming from thousands of yards out. Which is why I ask if the engine was out. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:47:18 PM EDT
[#15]
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If that dick pilot had just killed your wife and critically injured your kid, would you be sympathizing with the pilot for safely landing his plane on a narrow stretch of sand other than miles of open water? I'll just go ahead and say no, you wouldn't be. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Better than mowing down a family. Maybe he should have landed farther inland. Anywhere but there. You do know that it is possible to make the best possible decision at the time and still have a bad outcome? If that dick pilot had just killed your wife and critically injured your kid, would you be sympathizing with the pilot for safely landing his plane on a narrow stretch of sand other than miles of open water? I'll just go ahead and say no, you wouldn't be. So the determination about whether a person made the right decision should be made by those most emotionally invested in the event? |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:47:48 PM EDT
[#16]
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I'd agree, with the only obvious prop strike is where it impacted ground at the end. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Was the engine out....? wondering how they didn't hear it and see it approaching. I'd wager so. Gliders are spooky quiet, and the sound of the surf couldn't have helped. I'd agree, with the only obvious prop strike is where it impacted ground at the end. Looking at the far side of the prop, it looks undamaged, so it may not have been under power. One of the comments mentions 1000ft without engine power. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:49:36 PM EDT
[#17]
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So the determination about whether a person made the right decision should be made by those most emotionally invested in the event? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Better than mowing down a family. Maybe he should have landed farther inland. Anywhere but there. You do know that it is possible to make the best possible decision at the time and still have a bad outcome? If that dick pilot had just killed your wife and critically injured your kid, would you be sympathizing with the pilot for safely landing his plane on a narrow stretch of sand other than miles of open water? I'll just go ahead and say no, you wouldn't be. So the determination about whether a person made the right decision should be made by those most emotionally invested in the event? 1) Land in open water where there's nobody. 2) Land safely on a beach and likely injure or kill other people. There's no emotional decision here. There's only the right and wrong decision. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:49:44 PM EDT
[#18]
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Was the engine out....? wondering how they didn't hear it and see it approaching. Pilot probably didn't see the people until it was too late to turn around/change course. The engine was not running when the plane touched down (look at the prop). This means the man on the beach never heard it coming and the pilot had few options. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:49:59 PM EDT
[#19]
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http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Piper%20PA-32-300%20Cherokee%20Six,%20G-BBSM%2002-11.pdf"The aircraft was ditched successfully in the sea after a burning smell and smoke became apparent in the cabin and the engine began to run roughly. The two occupants were able to vacate the aircraft and board their life raft before the aircraft sank. " http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2007/aair/ao-2007-007.aspx "At about 1030 Eastern Standard Time on 23 May 2007, a Piper Aircraft Inc. PA-32-260 aircraft, registered VH-PYD (PYD), departed Horn Island, Queensland, for a visual flight rules charter flight to Warraber Island, Queensland, with the pilot and three passengers onboard. Approximately 25 NM from Warraber Island, the aircraft experienced difficulties with the powerplant and was forced to ditch into the waters of the Torres Strait. Having received only minor injuries, the occupants exited the aircraft before it sank. The occupants were located and rescued within an hour of the ditching." http://flighttraining.aopa.org/students/flighttestprep/skills/emergency.html "Beaches with long, straight stretches, where you can land on wet, hard sand, are attractive landing sites. Unfortunately, these beaches are often covered with people. The only alternative in such a situation might be to land offshore. Remember to touch down beyond the breaking waves; landing in high surf often overturns the aircraft, trapping the occupants. If you're near islands, land along the lee shore where seas and swells are smaller. The greatest challenge in surviving a ditching is not the landing. Hypothermia, the reduction of body temperature, claims nearly half the victims of ditchings. If you're over open water, look for boats and land near one to get assistance. If you can, overfly the boat to attract attention before ditching." The list goes on and on. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Oh I get it. The mans life was less important than the asshole and his passenger He followed the ditching procedure for the Cherokee exactly. It sucks that the guy got hit and killed, but the pilot most likely didn't even see him until it was too late. and the engine began to run roughly. The two occupants were able to vacate the aircraft and board their life raft before the aircraft sank. " http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2007/aair/ao-2007-007.aspx "At about 1030 Eastern Standard Time on 23 May 2007, a Piper Aircraft Inc. PA-32-260 aircraft, registered VH-PYD (PYD), departed Horn Island, Queensland, for a visual flight rules charter flight to Warraber Island, Queensland, with the pilot and three passengers onboard. Approximately 25 NM from Warraber Island, the aircraft experienced difficulties with the powerplant and was forced to ditch into the waters of the Torres Strait. Having received only minor injuries, the occupants exited the aircraft before it sank. The occupants were located and rescued within an hour of the ditching." http://flighttraining.aopa.org/students/flighttestprep/skills/emergency.html "Beaches with long, straight stretches, where you can land on wet, hard sand, are attractive landing sites. Unfortunately, these beaches are often covered with people. The only alternative in such a situation might be to land offshore. Remember to touch down beyond the breaking waves; landing in high surf often overturns the aircraft, trapping the occupants. If you're near islands, land along the lee shore where seas and swells are smaller. The greatest challenge in surviving a ditching is not the landing. Hypothermia, the reduction of body temperature, claims nearly half the victims of ditchings. If you're over open water, look for boats and land near one to get assistance. If you can, overfly the boat to attract attention before ditching." The list goes on and on. Both of your actual examples the plane is 13 - 25 nm over water already. The plane was going to crash, ditching was the only option. For the AOPA link it actually states that the beach is a good place if expected to not be covered with people, like an undeveloped beach. There was just as much chance of swimmers or a jetskier/boater as someone on that beach. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:51:18 PM EDT
[#20]
For the many well reasoned and though out points mentioned above and some personal experience with small planes, I am sympathizing with the pilot.
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:51:58 PM EDT
[#21]
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1) Land in open water where there's nobody. 2) Land safely on a beach and likely injure or kill other people. There's no emotional decision here. There's only the right and wrong decision. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Better than mowing down a family. Maybe he should have landed farther inland. Anywhere but there. You do know that it is possible to make the best possible decision at the time and still have a bad outcome? If that dick pilot had just killed your wife and critically injured your kid, would you be sympathizing with the pilot for safely landing his plane on a narrow stretch of sand other than miles of open water? I'll just go ahead and say no, you wouldn't be. So the determination about whether a person made the right decision should be made by those most emotionally invested in the event? 1) Land in open water where there's nobody. 2) Land safely on a beach and likely injure or kill other people. There's no emotional decision here. There's only the right and wrong decision. Maybe they couldn't swim and had thought they hand't seen anyone on the beach from higher up? |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:52:03 PM EDT
[#22]
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Dick should have went for the water Willful manslaughter. Hang the POS. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:52:05 PM EDT
[#23]
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Dick should have went for the water Bullshit ETA: I love all the posters with zero aviation knowledge thinking they have a clue what was involved in the accident and what the pilot could or could not do. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:53:12 PM EDT
[#24]
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Willful manslaughter. Hang the POS. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Dick should have went for the water Willful manslaughter. Hang the POS. 
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:53:34 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Willful manslaughter. Hang the POS. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Dick should have went for the water Willful manslaughter. Hang the POS. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:55:16 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Both of your actual examples the plane is 13 - 25 nm over water already. The plane was going to crash, ditching was the only option. For the AOPA link it actually states that the beach is a good place if expected to not be covered with people, like an undeveloped beach. There was just as much chance of swimmers or a jetskier/boater as someone on that beach. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Oh I get it. The mans life was less important than the asshole and his passenger He followed the ditching procedure for the Cherokee exactly. It sucks that the guy got hit and killed, but the pilot most likely didn't even see him until it was too late. and the engine began to run roughly. The two occupants were able to vacate the aircraft and board their life raft before the aircraft sank. " http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2007/aair/ao-2007-007.aspx "At about 1030 Eastern Standard Time on 23 May 2007, a Piper Aircraft Inc. PA-32-260 aircraft, registered VH-PYD (PYD), departed Horn Island, Queensland, for a visual flight rules charter flight to Warraber Island, Queensland, with the pilot and three passengers onboard. Approximately 25 NM from Warraber Island, the aircraft experienced difficulties with the powerplant and was forced to ditch into the waters of the Torres Strait. Having received only minor injuries, the occupants exited the aircraft before it sank. The occupants were located and rescued within an hour of the ditching." http://flighttraining.aopa.org/students/flighttestprep/skills/emergency.html "Beaches with long, straight stretches, where you can land on wet, hard sand, are attractive landing sites. Unfortunately, these beaches are often covered with people. The only alternative in such a situation might be to land offshore. Remember to touch down beyond the breaking waves; landing in high surf often overturns the aircraft, trapping the occupants. If you're near islands, land along the lee shore where seas and swells are smaller. The greatest challenge in surviving a ditching is not the landing. Hypothermia, the reduction of body temperature, claims nearly half the victims of ditchings. If you're over open water, look for boats and land near one to get assistance. If you can, overfly the boat to attract attention before ditching." The list goes on and on. Both of your actual examples the plane is 13 - 25 nm over water already. The plane was going to crash, ditching was the only option. For the AOPA link it actually states that the beach is a good place if expected to not be covered with people, like an undeveloped beach. There was just as much chance of swimmers or a jetskier/boater as someone on that beach. hauslp mentioned that the pilot followed ditching procedure. I would argue that ditching on a beach with people would hardly be procedure. Also, my first two links demonstrate that it's possible to land in water and in doing so wouldn't mean certain death for the pilot/passengers on the plane.
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:57:12 PM EDT
[#27]
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I'm sure the pilot is elated that he killed someone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So it is morally acceptable to risk the death of uninvolved persons rather than your own? I'm sure the pilot is elated that he killed someone. I'm sure that he said, "Better you than me". 
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:57:54 PM EDT
[#28]
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]I want you to wrap your head around this so I'll explain it to you slooowwwwlllllyyyyyyy. hauslp mentioned that the pilot followed ditching procedure. I would argue that ditching on a beach with people would hardly be procedure. Also, my first two links demonstrate that it's possible to land in water and in doing so wouldn't mean certain death for the pilot/passengers on the plane. So you know for a fact there was no one in the water? |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 4:58:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the many well reasoned and though out points mentioned above and some personal experience with small planes, I am sympathizing with the pilot.  |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:00:02 PM EDT
[#30]
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Horseshit. People manage their day to day activities based on acceptable risk. The chance of getting killed by an airplane while strolling down the beach is not a risk anyone should have an expectation of. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Do you know what happens when a fixed gear aircraft touches down on water? They're not just going to settle in. Most likely the aircraft flips, and the people on board get knocked unconscious and/or drown. Assuming he had the chance to hit the water or clip a random guy walking on the beach (perhaps a big assumption) he should hit the water. Pilot and his passengers assumed the risk of bad things happening. Guy walking down the beach ... not so much. Whether you get out of bed or not, everyone assumes the risk of bad things happening every day.......... Horseshit. People manage their day to day activities based on acceptable risk. The chance of getting killed by an airplane while strolling down the beach is not a risk anyone should have an expectation of. 450 people per year die falling out of bed and I don't think anyone expects that. People don't think about being hit by a falling plane because it happens so infrequently that it's close to impossible to find statistics for it. Car crashes kill over 4000 pedestrians per year. 
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:04:09 PM EDT
[#31]
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I want you to wrap your head around this so I'll explain it to you slooowwwwlllllyyyyyyy. hauslp mentioned that the pilot followed ditching procedure. I would argue that ditching on a beach with people would hardly be procedure. Also, my first two links demonstrate that it's possible to land in water and in doing so wouldn't mean certain death for the pilot/passengers on the plane. Just for the record the pilot didn't ditch. He executed an emergency landing. Ditching is an emergency landing into water. A lot of folks in this thread sound like libs explaining their emotional responses to a gun crime (He could have just shot the gun from his hand). |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:04:49 PM EDT
[#32]
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450 people per year die falling out of bed and I don't think anyone expects that. People don't think about being hit by a falling plane because it happens so infrequently that it's close to impossible to find statistics for it. Car crashes kill over 4000 pedestrians per year. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Do you know what happens when a fixed gear aircraft touches down on water? They're not just going to settle in. Most likely the aircraft flips, and the people on board get knocked unconscious and/or drown. Assuming he had the chance to hit the water or clip a random guy walking on the beach (perhaps a big assumption) he should hit the water. Pilot and his passengers assumed the risk of bad things happening. Guy walking down the beach ... not so much. Whether you get out of bed or not, everyone assumes the risk of bad things happening every day.......... Horseshit. People manage their day to day activities based on acceptable risk. The chance of getting killed by an airplane while strolling down the beach is not a risk anyone should have an expectation of. 450 people per year die falling out of bed and I don't think anyone expects that. People don't think about being hit by a falling plane because it happens so infrequently that it's close to impossible to find statistics for it. Car crashes kill over 4000 pedestrians per year. I read your post to see whether there was a point you were trying to make. I couldn't find it. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:07:29 PM EDT
[#33]
A small plane like the Cherokee has poor forward visibility when landing, the engine and prop are in the way. He more than likely never saw the people.
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:10:23 PM EDT
[#34]
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I read your post to see whether there was a point you were trying to make. I couldn't find it. I'll help you out: Shit happens. You are part of the crowd that has determined that because there was a negative outcome there had to be negligence from the pilot in his choice. Sometimes you can make the best decision and it still turns out poorly. There are few guarantees in this world but one of the is that if a pilot made an error the NTSB will have no qualms putting it in the report. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:12:07 PM EDT
[#35]
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Horseshit. People manage their day to day activities based on acceptable risk. The chance of getting killed by an airplane while strolling down the beach is not a risk anyone should have an expectation of. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Do you know what happens when a fixed gear aircraft touches down on water? They're not just going to settle in. Most likely the aircraft flips, and the people on board get knocked unconscious and/or drown. Assuming he had the chance to hit the water or clip a random guy walking on the beach (perhaps a big assumption) he should hit the water. Pilot and his passengers assumed the risk of bad things happening. Guy walking down the beach ... not so much. Whether you get out of bed or not, everyone assumes the risk of bad things happening every day.......... Horseshit. People manage their day to day activities based on acceptable risk. The chance of getting killed by an airplane while strolling down the beach is not a risk anyone should have an expectation of. I'd put it there with getting struck by a meteorite...... But, bad things happen.... That is part of life...... You manage the risks you can, but accept the ones you can't....... We don't even know what hit the dead guy..... It could have been a piece of debris thrown up by the plane......... |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:12:29 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I want you to wrap your head around this so I'll explain it to you slooowwwwlllllyyyyyyy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Oh I get it. The mans life was less important than the asshole and his passenger He followed the ditching procedure for the Cherokee exactly. It sucks that the guy got hit and killed, but the pilot most likely didn't even see him until it was too late. and the engine began to run roughly. The two occupants were able to vacate the aircraft and board their life raft before the aircraft sank. " http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2007/aair/ao-2007-007.aspx "At about 1030 Eastern Standard Time on 23 May 2007, a Piper Aircraft Inc. PA-32-260 aircraft, registered VH-PYD (PYD), departed Horn Island, Queensland, for a visual flight rules charter flight to Warraber Island, Queensland, with the pilot and three passengers onboard. Approximately 25 NM from Warraber Island, the aircraft experienced difficulties with the powerplant and was forced to ditch into the waters of the Torres Strait. Having received only minor injuries, the occupants exited the aircraft before it sank. The occupants were located and rescued within an hour of the ditching." http://flighttraining.aopa.org/students/flighttestprep/skills/emergency.html "Beaches with long, straight stretches, where you can land on wet, hard sand, are attractive landing sites. Unfortunately, these beaches are often covered with people. The only alternative in such a situation might be to land offshore. Remember to touch down beyond the breaking waves; landing in high surf often overturns the aircraft, trapping the occupants. If you're near islands, land along the lee shore where seas and swells are smaller. The greatest challenge in surviving a ditching is not the landing. Hypothermia, the reduction of body temperature, claims nearly half the victims of ditchings. If you're over open water, look for boats and land near one to get assistance. If you can, overfly the boat to attract attention before ditching." The list goes on and on. Both of your actual examples the plane is 13 - 25 nm over water already. The plane was going to crash, ditching was the only option. For the AOPA link it actually states that the beach is a good place if expected to not be covered with people, like an undeveloped beach. There was just as much chance of swimmers or a jetskier/boater as someone on that beach. hauslp mentioned that the pilot followed ditching procedure. I would argue that ditching on a beach with people would hardly be procedure. Also, my first two links demonstrate that it's possible to land in water and in doing so wouldn't mean certain death for the pilot/passengers on the plane. Depending on his altitude, that pilot had very little time to select a landing site. But I suppose because your on genius level at the basement ground school, you have already plugged in all the variables to determine that he hit them on purpose. Tell me, Mr. Smart guy, did he avoid a building with families in it? Did he miss a parking lot because he saw a lady and her toddler walking across it? Could he have made it to ditch in the water? I'm going with you don't know. In fact, you don't know much of anything in regard to the accident unless you were there. I don't know a pilot that given the chance, would willfully take the life of someone on the ground in a situation like this. Too bad you weren't in there with him to help him see the right thing to do. I'm sure your intellect alone would have saved the day with only the most excellent decisions that you are obviously capable of handing out. Wrap your head with that. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:12:37 PM EDT
[#37]
One procedure for landing fixed gear in the water is a hard left turn before the gear hits.
Theory is that the wing will keep it from flipping. Another idea I have heard is to full stall and pancake. Expensive to practice. Landing in the water would suck, but killing people sucks more. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:13:36 PM EDT
[#38]
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I'll help you out: Shit happens. You are part of the crowd that has determined that because there was a negative outcome there had to be negligence from the pilot in his choice. Sometimes you can make the best decision and it still turns out poorly. There are few guarantees in this world but one of the is that if a pilot made an error the NTSB will have no qualms putting it in the report. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I read your post to see whether there was a point you were trying to make. I couldn't find it. I'll help you out: Shit happens. You are part of the crowd that has determined that because there was a negative outcome there had to be negligence from the pilot in his choice. Sometimes you can make the best decision and it still turns out poorly. There are few guarantees in this world but one of the is that if a pilot made an error the NTSB will have no qualms putting it in the report. You should take a step back and read my posts. I specifically caveated everything I said about the pilot's ability to avoid this accident. And I expressly said I would defer to those in the know about how these airplanes operate. So don't lump me in with the others. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:14:54 PM EDT
[#39]
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A jogger was killed the same way a few years ago. Sad. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1013441_Bet_he_didn_t_see_this_one_coming___Plane_Hits__Kills_Man_Beach.html |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:16:43 PM EDT
[#40]
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I'll help you out: Shit happens. You are part of the crowd that has determined that because there was a negative outcome there had to be negligence from the pilot in his choice. Sometimes you can make the best decision and it still turns out poorly. There are few guarantees in this world but one of the is that if a pilot made an error the NTSB will have no qualms putting it in the report. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I read your post to see whether there was a point you were trying to make. I couldn't find it. I'll help you out: Shit happens. You are part of the crowd that has determined that because there was a negative outcome there had to be negligence from the pilot in his choice. Sometimes you can make the best decision and it still turns out poorly. There are few guarantees in this world but one of the is that if a pilot made an error the NTSB will have no qualms putting it in the report. I think that "Pilot error" is the NTSB's default setting. I believe if they don't work in at least one mention of it per report they get a demerit. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:17:18 PM EDT
[#41]
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You should try saying less stupid shit. I mean I don't know if you do it a lot, but less is better. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Dick should have went for the water You should try saying less stupid shit. I mean I don't know if you do it a lot, but less is better. Agree. Surf with 20k+ of flight time. And the flight time of (deersniper) is _________? And deersniper .... does the airplane takeoff from the treadmill? |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:17:46 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll help you out: Shit happens. You are part of the crowd that has determined that because there was a negative outcome there had to be negligence from the pilot in his choice. Sometimes you can make the best decision and it still turns out poorly. There are few guarantees in this world but one of the is that if a pilot made an error the NTSB will have no qualms putting it in the report. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I read your post to see whether there was a point you were trying to make. I couldn't find it. I'll help you out: Shit happens. You are part of the crowd that has determined that because there was a negative outcome there had to be negligence from the pilot in his choice. Sometimes you can make the best decision and it still turns out poorly. There are few guarantees in this world but one of the is that if a pilot made an error the NTSB will have no qualms putting it in the report. Doesn't matter what happened, 87% + of the time it's Pilot Error.......... |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:20:15 PM EDT
[#43]
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Oh I get it. The mans life was less important than the asshole and his passenger That guy had a lot more leeway to get the fuck out of the way than the pilot had to put down the plane somewhere where it wouldn't blow up, kill everyone on board, cartwheel all over the place, or some combination of the three. If you get hit by a light plane you either suck at dodging or aren't paying attention. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:20:51 PM EDT
[#44]
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Dick should have went for the water No kidding. 
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:20:59 PM EDT
[#45]
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I think that "Pilot error" is the NTSB's default setting. I believe if they don't work in at least one mention of it per report they get a demerit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I read your post to see whether there was a point you were trying to make. I couldn't find it. I'll help you out: Shit happens. You are part of the crowd that has determined that because there was a negative outcome there had to be negligence from the pilot in his choice. Sometimes you can make the best decision and it still turns out poorly. There are few guarantees in this world but one of the is that if a pilot made an error the NTSB will have no qualms putting it in the report. I think that "Pilot error" is the NTSB's default setting. I believe if they don't work in at least one mention of it per report they get a demerit. A Airliner could be shot down by a Stinger, & they'd find some sort of Pilot Error involved...........
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:21:27 PM EDT
[#46]
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You should take a step back and read my posts. I specifically caveated everything I said about the pilot's ability to avoid this accident. And I expressly said I would defer to those in the know about how these airplanes operate. So don't lump me in with the others. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I read your post to see whether there was a point you were trying to make. I couldn't find it. I'll help you out: Shit happens. You are part of the crowd that has determined that because there was a negative outcome there had to be negligence from the pilot in his choice. Sometimes you can make the best decision and it still turns out poorly. There are few guarantees in this world but one of the is that if a pilot made an error the NTSB will have no qualms putting it in the report. You should take a step back and read my posts. I specifically caveated everything I said about the pilot's ability to avoid this accident. And I expressly said I would defer to those in the know about how these airplanes operate. So don't lump me in with the others. So then what was your point about people shouldn't have to expect getting hit by a plane if not stating that the outcome that happened shouldn't have? |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:22:18 PM EDT
[#47]
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A Airliner could be shot down by a Stinger, & they'd find some sort of Pilot Error involved........... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I read your post to see whether there was a point you were trying to make. I couldn't find it. I'll help you out: Shit happens. You are part of the crowd that has determined that because there was a negative outcome there had to be negligence from the pilot in his choice. Sometimes you can make the best decision and it still turns out poorly. There are few guarantees in this world but one of the is that if a pilot made an error the NTSB will have no qualms putting it in the report. I think that "Pilot error" is the NTSB's default setting. I believe if they don't work in at least one mention of it per report they get a demerit. A Airliner could be shot down by a Stinger, & they'd find some sort of Pilot Error involved........... At least at that point it would only be listed as a contributing factor. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:23:53 PM EDT
[#48]
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This is my thought too. Killing people to save your own life is fucked up when the option exists to keep innocents safe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Dick should have went for the water This is my thought too. Killing people to save your own life is fucked up when the option exists to keep innocents safe. And the source of the danger is yours to claim. |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:24:16 PM EDT
[#49]
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That guy had a lot more leeway to get the fuck out of the way than the pilot had to put down the plane somewhere where it wouldn't blow up, kill everyone on board, cartwheel all over the place, or some combination of the three. If you get hit by a light plane you either suck at dodging or aren't paying attention. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Oh I get it. The mans life was less important than the asshole and his passenger That guy had a lot more leeway to get the fuck out of the way than the pilot had to put down the plane somewhere where it wouldn't blow up, kill everyone on board, cartwheel all over the place, or some combination of the three. If you get hit by a light plane you either suck at dodging or aren't paying attention. :facepalm: |
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Posted: 7/27/2014 5:24:36 PM EDT
[#50]
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Dick should have went for the water With fixed landing gear...? |
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