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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:06:49 AM EDT
[#1]
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Well, we have a society which is messed up in many ways. The double-standard of men are awesome if they are promiscuous, but women are whores. (Many, MANY men here embrace this wholeheartedly and love the double standard.) There are a multitude of ways we are screwed up. The false accusations are horrible, but the solution isn't going to materialize overnight. If the accusations are commonplace enough (are they?) to be worrisome, then again I can only repeat that men should become more prudent and think twice about banging the drunk chicks. If the accusations are not that commonplace, then I guess guys can keep doing what they're doing. If they feel the risks are serious, but they still keep banging the drunk chicks anyway, then they are foolish. A woman continuing to take "serious" risks would be met with frustration and exasperation, and the same would apply with the guys as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I should have clarified, I meant frequency of false rape allegations that lead to prosecution. There are a large number of false rape allegations, but they generally don't lead to any unfair punishment, aside from it adding fuel to the feminazi "men are da debul and fuck da patriarchy" which is what I think a lot of men have a problem with. Instead of there being legal ramifications, there are social stigmas and such associated with men in general that are used to propagate how big of victims women are in general (which to me seems to do women a disservice by victimizing them and making them seem weak, as well as detracting from legitimate rape allegations.) Well, we have a society which is messed up in many ways. The double-standard of men are awesome if they are promiscuous, but women are whores. (Many, MANY men here embrace this wholeheartedly and love the double standard.) There are a multitude of ways we are screwed up. The false accusations are horrible, but the solution isn't going to materialize overnight. If the accusations are commonplace enough (are they?) to be worrisome, then again I can only repeat that men should become more prudent and think twice about banging the drunk chicks. If the accusations are not that commonplace, then I guess guys can keep doing what they're doing. If they feel the risks are serious, but they still keep banging the drunk chicks anyway, then they are foolish. A woman continuing to take "serious" risks would be met with frustration and exasperation, and the same would apply with the guys as well. Yeah, that double standard is based in biology, males and females have very different strategies when it comes to reproducing and successfully passing on their genes. Male animals can adopt the shotgun strategy of siring as many offspring as possible to maximize their potential genetic propagation. Female animals must be much more selective of the males they allow to mate with them because they are by nature much more committed to each offspring they birth, due to the term of gestation and raising the offspring. This means women who procreate indiscriminately are less likely to pass on their genes successfully than men who do the same. Society has attempted to twist and ignore this simple truth, as in so many other cases. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:07:03 AM EDT
[#2]
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If she "owes" it and isn't giving what she "owes," then how do you claim what is "owed" to you? What action do you take? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So there isn't an expectation and obligation of sexual intercourse in a relationship? Or even in marriage? So if my wife doesn't sleep with me except for once every month, it's totally okay, because she doesn't owe me an orgasm? No one "owes" you anything. Regular sex is part of a good and healthy relationship, and a relationship may whither and die without it, but it isn't an entitlement. I've never said that it's "ok", but rather that it isn't an obligation. In other words, if she isn't giving it up, you can leave, but you don't have the right to just "take what's owed." In a marriage I would say the wife owes sex to the husband. The wife gave consent to the husband when they were married and she can't revoke it willy-nilly. Then again, I am a barbarian. If she "owes" it and isn't giving what she "owes," then how do you claim what is "owed" to you? What action do you take? In marriage there are obligations on the husband and the wife. The wife owes the husband sex or else she is violating the terms of the marriage. There is a reason it used to be called the 'wifely duty'. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:07:52 AM EDT
[#3]
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And if she is falling down drunk or passing out drunk? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I dont think having sex with a drunk woman who is outwardly willing qualifies as rape. How would you know she is unwilling unless she communicates it? If she says no, or tries to end it, and the man doesn't oblidge, then yeah, that is kinda rapey. And if she is falling down drunk or passing out drunk? I dont know. I'd never do it. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:07:58 AM EDT
[#4]
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Just another manipulative tool in their baggage.  This. Women throw around the term, "creeper" a lot too. "Omg he talked to me in public but I don't find him attractive. What a creeper!" "He glanced at me while I was sunbathing by the pool. What a creeper!" |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:07:59 AM EDT
[#5]
Being the chauvinistic, misogynistic dude that I am, women in this country need to start taking responsibility for their bad choices.
They need to band together and protect their female buddies from making bad decisions. Finally, there needs to be a TV, radio, social media campaign to warn women about making false allegations against men. Finally one more time, women who do make false accusations need to be prosecuted and punished. As for men, do not hurt women. Do not rape them. Stay away from women who are not sober. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:08:29 AM EDT
[#6]
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In marriage there are obligations on the husband and the wife. The wife owes the husband sex or else she is violating the terms of the marriage. There is a reason it used to be called the 'wifely duty'. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So there isn't an expectation and obligation of sexual intercourse in a relationship? Or even in marriage? So if my wife doesn't sleep with me except for once every month, it's totally okay, because she doesn't owe me an orgasm? No one "owes" you anything. Regular sex is part of a good and healthy relationship, and a relationship may whither and die without it, but it isn't an entitlement. I've never said that it's "ok", but rather that it isn't an obligation. In other words, if she isn't giving it up, you can leave, but you don't have the right to just "take what's owed." In a marriage I would say the wife owes sex to the husband. The wife gave consent to the husband when they were married and she can't revoke it willy-nilly. Then again, I am a barbarian. If she "owes" it and isn't giving what she "owes," then how do you claim what is "owed" to you? What action do you take? In marriage there are obligations on the husband and the wife. The wife owes the husband sex or else she is violating the terms of the marriage. There is a reason it used to be called the 'wifely duty'. You're not answering my question. I'm asking WHAT DO YOU DO? What action do you take if a wife refuses what she "owes" you? |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:09:35 AM EDT
[#7]
And Renata, I will answer your question directly. If a wife is withholding sex from her husband she is in violation of the marriage agreement. I don't agree with divorce except in cases of spousal infidelity, so the husband should just put up with it. However, the wife should know that she is violating her marriage vows.
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:09:45 AM EDT
[#8]
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Yeah, that double standard is based in biology, males and females have very different strategies when it comes to reproducing and successfully passing on their genes. Male animals can adopt the shotgun strategy of siring as many offspring as possible to maximize their potential genetic propagation. Female animals must be much more selective of the males they allow to mate with them because they are by nature much more committed to each offspring they birth, due to the term of gestation and raising the offspring. This means women who procreate indiscriminately are less likely to pass on their genes successfully than men who do the same. Society has attempted to twist and ignore this simple truth, as in so many other cases. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I should have clarified, I meant frequency of false rape allegations that lead to prosecution. There are a large number of false rape allegations, but they generally don't lead to any unfair punishment, aside from it adding fuel to the feminazi "men are da debul and fuck da patriarchy" which is what I think a lot of men have a problem with. Instead of there being legal ramifications, there are social stigmas and such associated with men in general that are used to propagate how big of victims women are in general (which to me seems to do women a disservice by victimizing them and making them seem weak, as well as detracting from legitimate rape allegations.) Well, we have a society which is messed up in many ways. The double-standard of men are awesome if they are promiscuous, but women are whores. (Many, MANY men here embrace this wholeheartedly and love the double standard.) There are a multitude of ways we are screwed up. The false accusations are horrible, but the solution isn't going to materialize overnight. If the accusations are commonplace enough (are they?) to be worrisome, then again I can only repeat that men should become more prudent and think twice about banging the drunk chicks. If the accusations are not that commonplace, then I guess guys can keep doing what they're doing. If they feel the risks are serious, but they still keep banging the drunk chicks anyway, then they are foolish. A woman continuing to take "serious" risks would be met with frustration and exasperation, and the same would apply with the guys as well. Yeah, that double standard is based in biology, males and females have very different strategies when it comes to reproducing and successfully passing on their genes. Male animals can adopt the shotgun strategy of siring as many offspring as possible to maximize their potential genetic propagation. Female animals must be much more selective of the males they allow to mate with them because they are by nature much more committed to each offspring they birth, due to the term of gestation and raising the offspring. This means women who procreate indiscriminately are less likely to pass on their genes successfully than men who do the same. Society has attempted to twist and ignore this simple truth, as in so many other cases. Ah, I love it. An example of an ARFCOMMER embracing the double standard because it favors men. When a double-standard favors women, oh boy, that's a different story! 
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:11:24 AM EDT
[#9]
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What you wand and what you need are very different things.If you are driven by your wants, ignoring your needs, you will find trouble. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Here's my point...because several of you do not get it. You're being handed a revolver with one bullet in it. Odds are, if you put it in your mouth and pull the trigger, you won't die. But WHY would you put the damn thing in your mouth? For the thrill of not dying? Stupid.... Guys want to get laid. A good many of us don't care to get entangled in relationships anymore to meet that goal That's a pretty powerful drive Where would you tell these guys they should get their needs fulfilled? Prostitutions illegal most places Actually, regular intercourse is essential to maintaining good brain health in men. Otherwise, you start getting a seriously bad cascade of brain chemicals and hormones. Jacking in a sock doesn't stop it either. Stress hormones start getting out of whack, both testosterone and estrogen start spiking, and a dude is left with pussy on his mind and his mind on pussy. Happens in women too. Just chemical birth control keeps it in check. Which is why a woman can get married, not have sex for months at a time and be indifferent. While the husband is constantly looking for the next piece of tail. Hence affairs. Granted this an overall view of human biology, and it varies person to person. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:12:03 AM EDT
[#10]
Renata, if a husband fails to provide for his wife (which he owes her) what recourse does the woman have? The wife can take the man to court and have a judge order that the husband forfeit a large percentage of his income for the rest of his life. My answer to your question is infinitely more forgiving than society has deemed for men who violate their vows.
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:12:32 AM EDT
[#11]
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I meant that there is an obligation for sexual intercourse, and if it isn't occurring, there are grounds for breaking up (whether it be boyfriend/girlfriend or marriage.) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So there isn't an expectation and obligation of sexual intercourse in a relationship? Or even in marriage? So if my wife doesn't sleep with me except for once every month, it's totally okay, because she doesn't owe me an orgasm? No one "owes" you anything. Regular sex is part of a good and healthy relationship, and a relationship may whither and die without it, but it isn't an entitlement. I've never said that it's "ok", but rather that it isn't an obligation. In other words, if she isn't giving it up, you can leave, but you don't have the right to just "take what's owed." I meant that there is an obligation for sexual intercourse, and if it isn't occurring, there are grounds for breaking up (whether it be boyfriend/girlfriend or marriage.) Like I said, you aren't owed anything. Grounds for break up? Of course. But that still doesn't mean one is entitled to sex. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:12:56 AM EDT
[#12]
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And Renata, I will answer your question directly. If a wife is withholding sex from her husband she is in violation of the marriage agreement. I don't agree with divorce except in cases of spousal infidelity, so the husband should just put up with it. However, the wife should know that she is violating her marriage vows. Well, actually, I'd support you divorcing in such a case. I'd also say that both man and woman should marry with the expectation that there will be intimacy, and it would be completely wrong if one or the other refused intimacy merely because they didn't want it anymore. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:13:10 AM EDT
[#13]
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In a marriage I would say the wife owes sex to the husband. The wife gave consent to the husband when they were married and she can't revoke it willy-nilly. Then again, I am a barbarian. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So there isn't an expectation and obligation of sexual intercourse in a relationship? Or even in marriage? So if my wife doesn't sleep with me except for once every month, it's totally okay, because she doesn't owe me an orgasm? No one "owes" you anything. Regular sex is part of a good and healthy relationship, and a relationship may whither and die without it, but it isn't an entitlement. I've never said that it's "ok", but rather that it isn't an obligation. In other words, if she isn't giving it up, you can leave, but you don't have the right to just "take what's owed." In a marriage I would say the wife owes sex to the husband. The wife gave consent to the husband when they were married and she can't revoke it willy-nilly. Then again, I am a barbarian. So raping your wife is ok by you? |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:14:15 AM EDT
[#14]
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Ah, I love it. An example of an ARFCOMMER embracing the double standard because it favors men. When a double-standard favors women, oh boy, that's a different story!
I don't think that most of us have problems with double standards for men and women. Men and women are different. That is just a plain fact. The problem happens when feminists claim that men and women are equal and then want a double standard anyways. That is just hypocrisy. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:15:31 AM EDT
[#15]
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Renata, if a husband fails to provide for his wife (which he owes her) what recourse does the woman have? The wife can take the man to court and have a judge order that the husband forfeit a large percentage of his income for the rest of his life. My answer to your question is infinitely more forgiving than society has deemed for men who violate their vows. Or she could get a job. 
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:15:47 AM EDT
[#16]
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Renata, if a husband fails to provide for his wife (which he owes her) what recourse does the woman have? The wife can take the man to court and have a judge order that the husband forfeit a large percentage of his income for the rest of his life. My answer to your question is infinitely more forgiving than society has deemed for men who violate their vows. This is why it's increasingly foolish for Western men to get married at all. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:16:41 AM EDT
[#17]
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So raping your wife is ok by you? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So there isn't an expectation and obligation of sexual intercourse in a relationship? Or even in marriage? So if my wife doesn't sleep with me except for once every month, it's totally okay, because she doesn't owe me an orgasm? No one "owes" you anything. Regular sex is part of a good and healthy relationship, and a relationship may whither and die without it, but it isn't an entitlement. I've never said that it's "ok", but rather that it isn't an obligation. In other words, if she isn't giving it up, you can leave, but you don't have the right to just "take what's owed." In a marriage I would say the wife owes sex to the husband. The wife gave consent to the husband when they were married and she can't revoke it willy-nilly. Then again, I am a barbarian. So raping your wife is ok by you? See above. However, in many cases with which our society defines rape it would be okay. Take for example, drinking. If your wife gets drunk and you have sex with her, is it rape? I would say no, since she gave consent at the wedding. If you were to have sex with a drunk girl outside of marriage, many feminists would consider it rape. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:17:20 AM EDT
[#18]
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This is why it's increasingly foolish for Western men to get married at all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Renata, if a husband fails to provide for his wife (which he owes her) what recourse does the woman have? The wife can take the man to court and have a judge order that the husband forfeit a large percentage of his income for the rest of his life. My answer to your question is infinitely more forgiving than society has deemed for men who violate their vows. This is why it's increasingly foolish for Western men to get married at all. I tend to agree. Unless, you find the right woman uncorrupted by feminism, its a bad choice. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:17:47 AM EDT
[#19]
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Or she could get a job. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Renata, if a husband fails to provide for his wife (which he owes her) what recourse does the woman have? The wife can take the man to court and have a judge order that the husband forfeit a large percentage of his income for the rest of his life. My answer to your question is infinitely more forgiving than society has deemed for men who violate their vows. Or she could get a job. lol |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:20:00 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I tried the "relationship route to an orgasm" All that does is make lawyers rich in the end, and is no assured path to an orgasm. So lets try again Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: No one owes you an orgasm. Find someone willing to sell you one and buy it. If the market price of an orgasm is a relationship and you're not willing to pay it... tough shit.[/span][/span][/span] Highlighted this for truth. Perfect answer. I tried the "relationship route to an orgasm" All that does is make lawyers rich in the end, and is no assured path to an orgasm. So lets try again If you have to orgasm that bad, buy a fucking Fleshlight
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:23:16 AM EDT
[#21]
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This. Women throw around the term, "creeper" a lot too. "Omg he talked to me in public but I don't find him attractive. What a creeper!" "He glanced at me while I was sunbathing by the pool. What a creeper!" Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just another manipulative tool in their baggage. This. Women throw around the term, "creeper" a lot too. "Omg he talked to me in public but I don't find him attractive. What a creeper!" "He glanced at me while I was sunbathing by the pool. What a creeper!" Ah, yes. The burden of beauty. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:23:22 AM EDT
[#22]
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See above. However, in many cases with which our society defines rape it would be okay. Take for example, drinking. If your wife gets drunk and you have sex with her, is it rape? I would say no, since she gave consent at the wedding. If you were to have sex with a drunk girl outside of marriage, many feminists would consider it rape. I think we are actually sort of in agreement. I still wouldn't quite phrase it as a woman "owes" her husband sex, any more than he "owes" her sex. It should be a mutually beneficial, shared, joyous expression of love, not an obligation. I think spouses "owe" it to each other to keep it that way. Just as a spouse should provide for the other out of love and a desire to see the other flourish, not because they are obligated to. "Duty" doesn't have to be a chore. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:25:40 AM EDT
[#23]
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1. How can someone have any reliable stats on rape when it has been turned into just another frontier of victimology and liberalism to pit the sexes against each other? 2. One third is a massive number and it gets slung around by state media. I would be surprised if one third of women in tribal African regions had been raped let alone women in a first world country. You add up 'no stats', political agendas, and a number so huge it doesn't make sense and it equals bullshit. Yep. This thread is an embarrassment.
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:25:48 AM EDT
[#24]
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I don't think that most of us have problems with double standards for men and women. Men and women are different. That is just a plain fact. The problem happens when feminists claim that men and women are equal and then want a double standard anyways. That is just hypocrisy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ah, I love it. An example of an ARFCOMMER embracing the double standard because it favors men. When a double-standard favors women, oh boy, that's a different story!
I don't think that most of us have problems with double standards for men and women. Men and women are different. That is just a plain fact. The problem happens when feminists claim that men and women are equal and then want a double standard anyways. That is just hypocrisy. It depends on what kind of double standards we're talking about. It's said that biology causes the double standard of men being awesome if they whore around, while women are just . . . whores. I think that these days it is a social double-standard, society puts these pressures on us, not just biology. Many of us have some morality or religion infused in us, which teaches us to elevate ourselves above the animalistic. Society and our morals tell us we can't do many things that biology might encourage us to do. I think that many people cherry-pick which parts of "biology" they want to embrace, because it favors THEM. We are no longer animals and we can think above that. We can use our brains and avoid stupid decisions. We can avoid behaving like hypocritical assholes too. There might be a base instinct in a man to impregnate as many women as possible, or for a woman to claim that the better "provider" male is the father of her offspring (even if it's a lie). But is that moral or right? Can't we manage rise above that instead of high-fiving each other and saying that it's awesome? |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:27:06 AM EDT
[#25]
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Ah, I love it. An example of an ARFCOMMER embracing the double standard because it favors men. When a double-standard favors women, oh boy, that's a different story!
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I should have clarified, I meant frequency of false rape allegations that lead to prosecution. There are a large number of false rape allegations, but they generally don't lead to any unfair punishment, aside from it adding fuel to the feminazi "men are da debul and fuck da patriarchy" which is what I think a lot of men have a problem with. Instead of there being legal ramifications, there are social stigmas and such associated with men in general that are used to propagate how big of victims women are in general (which to me seems to do women a disservice by victimizing them and making them seem weak, as well as detracting from legitimate rape allegations.) Well, we have a society which is messed up in many ways. The double-standard of men are awesome if they are promiscuous, but women are whores. (Many, MANY men here embrace this wholeheartedly and love the double standard.) There are a multitude of ways we are screwed up. The false accusations are horrible, but the solution isn't going to materialize overnight. If the accusations are commonplace enough (are they?) to be worrisome, then again I can only repeat that men should become more prudent and think twice about banging the drunk chicks. If the accusations are not that commonplace, then I guess guys can keep doing what they're doing. If they feel the risks are serious, but they still keep banging the drunk chicks anyway, then they are foolish. A woman continuing to take "serious" risks would be met with frustration and exasperation, and the same would apply with the guys as well. Yeah, that double standard is based in biology, males and females have very different strategies when it comes to reproducing and successfully passing on their genes. Male animals can adopt the shotgun strategy of siring as many offspring as possible to maximize their potential genetic propagation. Female animals must be much more selective of the males they allow to mate with them because they are by nature much more committed to each offspring they birth, due to the term of gestation and raising the offspring. This means women who procreate indiscriminately are less likely to pass on their genes successfully than men who do the same. Society has attempted to twist and ignore this simple truth, as in so many other cases. Ah, I love it. An example of an ARFCOMMER embracing the double standard because it favors men. When a double-standard favors women, oh boy, that's a different story!
Well, this double standard happens to be an inescapable fact of reality, where as most double standards that favor women over men have been manufactured by law and are based on nothing but vindictiveness and some misplaced sense of social justice. To help the poor down trodden women get back at the men who so oppress them. Divorce law, DV laws, the rape laws that are the subject of this thread, they're all predicated on the assumption that men are the predators and women the victims, so the women need a leg up to level the field. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:27:23 AM EDT
[#26]
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Well, until we get that all sorted out, we still have the risk. The risk is real. So the question is, are guys still going to keep banging drunk chicks, then bitching because it's risky to do so? Or are they going to decide that it's not wise to bang drunk chicks? Which is more important? To be innocent but still in jail, or to be more prudent, maybe with a few less notches on their bedpost, but not in jail? I won't but, I'll let the guys that do so, do so, to highlight the hypocrisy of the situation. I'll continue bitching about it on the internet and generally not care about rape until women as a group, get serious and crackdown on false rape allegations. Once that is done, I will gladly pour my energy and time into preventing that travesty. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:29:09 AM EDT
[#27]
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It depends on what kind of double standards we're talking about. It's said that biology causes the double standard of men being awesome if they whore around, while women are just . . . whores. I think that these days it is a social double-standard, society puts these pressures on us, not just biology. Many of us have some morality or religion infused in us, which teaches us to elevate ourselves above the animalistic. Society and our morals tell us we can't do many things that biology might encourage us to do. I think that many people cherry-pick which parts of "biology" they want to embrace, because it favors THEM. We are no longer animals and we can think above that. We can use our brains and avoid stupid decisions. We can avoid behaving like hypocritical assholes too. There might be a base instinct in a man to impregnate as many women as possible, or for a woman to claim that the better "provider" male is the father of her offspring (even if it's a lie). But is that moral or right? Can't we manage rise above that instead of high-fiving each other and saying that it's awesome? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ah, I love it. An example of an ARFCOMMER embracing the double standard because it favors men. When a double-standard favors women, oh boy, that's a different story!
I don't think that most of us have problems with double standards for men and women. Men and women are different. That is just a plain fact. The problem happens when feminists claim that men and women are equal and then want a double standard anyways. That is just hypocrisy. It depends on what kind of double standards we're talking about. It's said that biology causes the double standard of men being awesome if they whore around, while women are just . . . whores. I think that these days it is a social double-standard, society puts these pressures on us, not just biology. Many of us have some morality or religion infused in us, which teaches us to elevate ourselves above the animalistic. Society and our morals tell us we can't do many things that biology might encourage us to do. I think that many people cherry-pick which parts of "biology" they want to embrace, because it favors THEM. We are no longer animals and we can think above that. We can use our brains and avoid stupid decisions. We can avoid behaving like hypocritical assholes too. There might be a base instinct in a man to impregnate as many women as possible, or for a woman to claim that the better "provider" male is the father of her offspring (even if it's a lie). But is that moral or right? Can't we manage rise above that instead of high-fiving each other and saying that it's awesome? I agree with you here. Men and women whoring themselves out is a huge problem for society. The number one cause of poverty is single parenthood. Sluts should be shamed. 'Players' should be shown to be pathetic. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:30:16 AM EDT
[#28]
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Renata, if a husband fails to provide for his wife (which he owes her) what recourse does the woman have? The wife can take the man to court and have a judge order that the husband forfeit a large percentage of his income for the rest of his life. My answer to your question is infinitely more forgiving than society has deemed for men who violate their vows. If a couple is not getting along and the wife refuses to have sex, I think the man can divorce her. If the man refuses to earn any money (I don't see how he can just earn money for himself but not provide anything for her if they're living together) then she can get sick of it and leave him. In any case, the divorce courts will sort it out. Sometimes the courts screw it up. But that's for another angst-ridden GD thread. The point is, if either party is not supporting (won't earn any money even though they can) and refusing intimacy, the marriage is doomed. They don't "owe" you a certain level of income, and they don't "owe" you sex. You can leave, though. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:33:25 AM EDT
[#29]
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It depends on what kind of double standards we're talking about. It's said that biology causes the double standard of men being awesome if they whore around, while women are just . . . whores. I think that these days it is a social double-standard, society puts these pressures on us, not just biology. Many of us have some morality or religion infused in us, which teaches us to elevate ourselves above the animalistic. Society and our morals tell us we can't do many things that biology might encourage us to do. I think that many people cherry-pick which parts of "biology" they want to embrace, because it favors THEM. We are no longer animals and we can think above that. We can use our brains and avoid stupid decisions. We can avoid behaving like hypocritical assholes too. There might be a base instinct in a man to impregnate as many women as possible, or for a woman to claim that the better "provider" male is the father of her offspring (even if it's a lie). But is that moral or right? Can't we manage rise above that instead of high-fiving each other and saying that it's awesome? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ah, I love it. An example of an ARFCOMMER embracing the double standard because it favors men. When a double-standard favors women, oh boy, that's a different story!
I don't think that most of us have problems with double standards for men and women. Men and women are different. That is just a plain fact. The problem happens when feminists claim that men and women are equal and then want a double standard anyways. That is just hypocrisy. It depends on what kind of double standards we're talking about. It's said that biology causes the double standard of men being awesome if they whore around, while women are just . . . whores. I think that these days it is a social double-standard, society puts these pressures on us, not just biology. Many of us have some morality or religion infused in us, which teaches us to elevate ourselves above the animalistic. Society and our morals tell us we can't do many things that biology might encourage us to do. I think that many people cherry-pick which parts of "biology" they want to embrace, because it favors THEM. We are no longer animals and we can think above that. We can use our brains and avoid stupid decisions. We can avoid behaving like hypocritical assholes too. There might be a base instinct in a man to impregnate as many women as possible, or for a woman to claim that the better "provider" male is the father of her offspring (even if it's a lie). But is that moral or right? Can't we manage rise above that instead of high-fiving each other and saying that it's awesome? I think you give the average person too much credit, humans are by and large, animals clothed in a thin veneer of civility and morality. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:33:26 AM EDT
[#30]
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First sentence in first post nails it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm going to be an insensitive asshole right now. "Raped" or got drunk and regretted have sex the next day? First sentence in first post nails it. GD never fails to deliver. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:36:19 AM EDT
[#31]
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If a couple is not getting along and the wife refuses to have sex, I think the man can divorce her. If the man refuses to earn any money (I don't see how he can just earn money for himself but not provide anything for her if they're living together) then she can get sick of it and leave him. In any case, the divorce courts will sort it out. Sometimes the courts screw it up. But that's for another angst-ridden GD thread. The point is, if either party is not supporting (won't earn any money even though they can) and refusing intimacy, the marriage is doomed. They don't "owe" you a certain level of income, and they don't "owe" you sex. You can leave, though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Renata, if a husband fails to provide for his wife (which he owes her) what recourse does the woman have? The wife can take the man to court and have a judge order that the husband forfeit a large percentage of his income for the rest of his life. My answer to your question is infinitely more forgiving than society has deemed for men who violate their vows. If a couple is not getting along and the wife refuses to have sex, I think the man can divorce her. If the man refuses to earn any money (I don't see how he can just earn money for himself but not provide anything for her if they're living together) then she can get sick of it and leave him. In any case, the divorce courts will sort it out. Sometimes the courts screw it up. But that's for another angst-ridden GD thread. The point is, if either party is not supporting (won't earn any money even though they can) and refusing intimacy, the marriage is doomed. They don't "owe" you a certain level of income, and they don't "owe" you sex. You can leave, though. And this is the problem with modern society. We have forgotten the concept of duty. When you get married you say before your community and God that you bind yourself to this person for the rest of your natural life. That binding involves duties to the other person. Those duties don't go away if you fall out of love with that person or you think you made a mistake later on. Look at your marriage vows: "to have and to hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to God's holy ordinance; and thereto I plight thee my troth." There is no escape clause, but there are duties that you bind yourself to. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:36:58 AM EDT
[#32]
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I agree with you here. Men and women whoring themselves out is a huge problem for society. The number one cause of poverty is single parenthood. Sluts should be shamed. 'Players' should be shown to be pathetic. If you listen to a sizeable portion of GD, it's only women whoring themselves that is the problem. Men whoring are awesome. Though I don't know who these awesome whoring men are finding their women. Aren't they guilty of creating "whores" when they go sleeping around? But somehow only the women are tainted by these encounters. The men remain awesome. But somehow, we are told that biology is the cause of this and that there's no use fighting it. 
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:38:52 AM EDT
[#33]
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He's got a point. Lots of women get drunk and feel like that had been taken advantage of. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm going to be an insensitive asshole right now. "Raped" or got drunk and regretted have sex the next day? First sentence in first post nails it. He's got a point. Lots of women get drunk and feel like that had been taken advantage of. I knew two separate girls that were in relationships, got wasted, cheated on their boyfriends, and claimed rape the next day because they felt guilty. Both eventually recanted. Neither faced charges. I wasn't really close enough to either of them to ask what the fuck they were thinking, but I was close enough to them to know the real story, and know that they attempted to press charges, and see that there was not a fucking smidgeon of guilt that they tried to ruin some poor guy's life. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:38:59 AM EDT
[#34]
This thread has officially gone full retard
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:42:24 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread has officially gone full retard If this thread was a chick, it's passed out getting gang-banged by Delta Fu. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:44:07 AM EDT
[#36]
Replying from page 1. Did not read 11 pages.
I had an ex who was a rape victim. She wore it on her sleeve like a badge. Volunteered at rape crisis centers. Having heard many of her stories, I would say the definition of rape is broad and vague. Sometimes rape is rape, sometimes it is the girl regretting her decision to have sex. Often somewhere in between. What bothered me the most was their standard greeting. Those in the rape counseling scene will answer "How are you doing?" with "Surviving." Same answer ten, twenty years after the incident. That bothered me. We all have to move on at some time. If I was merely surviving for ten, twenty years I think I would kill myself. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:44:27 AM EDT
[#37]
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You took my quote out of context. I was not speaking about a situation where both parties are drunk, I was speaking about a situation where one party has made decisions which obviously put them at higher risk of being assaulted. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Doing something stupid doesn't absolve the other party's responsibility. They're both drunk. It's not right to claim that the male understands what he's doing when he's drunk but the female does not understand what she's doing when she's drunk. You took my quote out of context. I was not speaking about a situation where both parties are drunk, I was speaking about a situation where one party has made decisions which obviously put them at higher risk of being assaulted. Not by much. The claim going back and forth in this thread seems to be that some men will get a woman drunk in order to get her to consent to sex. I'll be 51 next week. I've seen this play out many times. In every instance, they were both drunk. The man did not pour out his drinks while feeding straight vodka to the woman. I've never seen that and I've spent more time at bars and parties than I care to admit. In fact, during my most serious drinking days (I lived across the street from the bar and the manager was my landlord) I knew two women who swore, over drinks, that they'd been given the "date rape drug." It's worth noting that both of these women had DWI convictions. One had two of them. Both of them could keep up with me drinking all night long. One of them drank Jack Daniels and Coke, the other drank beer with the occasional Jager Bomb. Both of them are good, honest people, but neither of them could make the connection between the fact that they habitually filled themselves to overflowing with alcohol and the fact that there were times they could not remember what they'd done that night. Both of them also had female acquaintances who'd made rape accusations which they dismissed as, "Yeah, sure, she was drunk and she doesn't want to admit that she slept with him." As far as forcible rape and battery victims go, we had a women's shelter in one of the towns where I did EMS. It was a real one, not some bullshit feminist protest factory. It did not exist on maps and the town and the county would deny that it was there. Once in a while, one of the women who lived there would contact her ex and tell him where she was. Then the ex turned up outside and screamed and made threats. If the woman went outside, there'd be a beating if the police weren't there. EMS was not allowed to go inside that building. They initially tried to keep the cops out, too, but the cops convinced them that they couldn't prosecute a case if they had to interview victims and witnesses on the side of a busy street. So, yes, I've dealt with real victims as well as imagined ones. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:45:20 AM EDT
[#38]
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And this is the problem with modern society. We have forgotten the concept of duty. When you get married you say before your community and God that you bind yourself to this person for the rest of your natural life. That binding involves duties to the other person. Those duties don't go away if you fall out of love with that person or you think you made a mistake later on. Look at your marriage vows: "to have and to hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to God's holy ordinance; and thereto I plight thee my troth." There is no escape clause, but there are duties that you bind yourself to. I've been raised religious (and still am), and don't really have a problem with any of what you say here. But it's not applied evenly and hasn't been for a while. I have no problem with both man and woman honoring their marriage vows in the way you describe. What I do see is that there are a lot of "if it benefits ME I'll follow it" people, both male and female. Men complain about a double standard, unless it benefits them. Women are equally as bad. "But that's different!" they'll claim when their hypocrisy is pointed out. Men blame feminism for many of the ills of the world and it's true, feminism is all jacked up these days. But some men go too far the other way and pine for the days when women didn't have the vote, couldn't get a job, weren't encouraged to get educated, and were basically dependent on men to support her and feed her. She'd put up with any old douchebag, even one who cheated on her or beat her, because there were not many other alternatives. Yeah, those were the GOOD OLD DAYS!
Even today we have guys who enjoy some of the "benefits" of feminism, while still bitching. They enjoy the company of "loose women" but think they are above these loose women, who are just, you know, whores. (While the men of course are awesome!) And on and on. The good old days are over. Some of that is a pity, and some of it is good. Speaking as a woman, I'm grateful to have the vote and I'm glad I was "allowed" to have an education.
Wow, this is getting way too tangental. . . |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:49:41 AM EDT
[#39]
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Replying from page 1. Did not read 11 pages. I had an ex who was a rape victim. She wore it on her sleeve like a badge. Volunteered at rape crisis centers. Having heard many of her stories, I would say the definition of rape is broad and vague. Sometimes rape is rape, sometimes it is the girl regretting her decision to have sex. Often somewhere in between. What bothered me the most was their standard greeting. Those in the rape counseling scene will answer "How are you doing?" with "Surviving." Same answer ten, twenty years after the incident. That bothered me. We all have to move on at some time. If I was merely surviving for ten, twenty years I think I would kill myself. Being a victim has become a position of power in our society, whether it be racism, sexism, or any other "ism", if you can portray yourself as a victim, you can play on people's sympathy and/or guilt (though seldom the guilt of the person who supposedly wronged you, only that of those guilty by association). It's plain old manipulation to try to get something unearned, once you're a victim you can demand reparations in one form or another, to right the wrong you "suffered". It's disgusting and wrong and it's modern America. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:50:13 AM EDT
[#40]
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I've been raised religious (and still am), and don't really have a problem with any of what you say here. But it's not applied evenly and hasn't been for a while. I have no problem with both man and woman honoring their marriage vows in the way you describe. What I do see is that there are a lot of "if it benefits ME I'll follow it" people, both male and female. Men complain about a double standard, unless it benefits them. Women are equally as bad. "But that's different!" they'll claim when their hypocrisy is pointed out. Men blame feminism for many of the ills of the world and it's true, feminism is all jacked up these days. But some men go too far the other way and pine for the days when women didn't have the vote, couldn't get a job, weren't encouraged to get educated, and were basically dependent on men to support her and feed her. She'd put up with any old douchebag, even one who cheated on her or beat her, because there were not many other alternatives. Yeah, those were the GOOD OLD DAYS!
Even today we have guys who enjoy some of the "benefits" of feminism, while still bitching. They enjoy the company of "loose women" but think they are above these loose women, who are just, you know, whores. (While the men of course are awesome!) And on and on. The good old days are over. Some of that is a pity, and some of it is good. Speaking as a woman, I'm grateful to have the vote and I'm glad I was "allowed" to have an education.
Wow, this is getting way too tangental. . . Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And this is the problem with modern society. We have forgotten the concept of duty. When you get married you say before your community and God that you bind yourself to this person for the rest of your natural life. That binding involves duties to the other person. Those duties don't go away if you fall out of love with that person or you think you made a mistake later on. Look at your marriage vows: "to have and to hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part, according to God's holy ordinance; and thereto I plight thee my troth." There is no escape clause, but there are duties that you bind yourself to. I've been raised religious (and still am), and don't really have a problem with any of what you say here. But it's not applied evenly and hasn't been for a while. I have no problem with both man and woman honoring their marriage vows in the way you describe. What I do see is that there are a lot of "if it benefits ME I'll follow it" people, both male and female. Men complain about a double standard, unless it benefits them. Women are equally as bad. "But that's different!" they'll claim when their hypocrisy is pointed out. Men blame feminism for many of the ills of the world and it's true, feminism is all jacked up these days. But some men go too far the other way and pine for the days when women didn't have the vote, couldn't get a job, weren't encouraged to get educated, and were basically dependent on men to support her and feed her. She'd put up with any old douchebag, even one who cheated on her or beat her, because there were not many other alternatives. Yeah, those were the GOOD OLD DAYS!
Even today we have guys who enjoy some of the "benefits" of feminism, while still bitching. They enjoy the company of "loose women" but think they are above these loose women, who are just, you know, whores. (While the men of course are awesome!) And on and on. The good old days are over. Some of that is a pity, and some of it is good. Speaking as a woman, I'm grateful to have the vote and I'm glad I was "allowed" to have an education.
Wow, this is getting way too tangental. . . I'm sorry, women were never not allowed an education. As far as I can tell both sexes were educated in public schools since the founding of this nation. As far as women voting... well the consequences speak for themselves. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:50:19 AM EDT
[#41]
I have never understood feminism. It makes no sense. Feminist dont want to be feminine they want to be masculine. They want to be men. the very name of thier ideology is dumb. They should call themselves fusculinists or some shit.
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:51:54 AM EDT
[#42]
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If you listen to a sizeable portion of GD, it's only women whoring themselves that is the problem. Men whoring are awesome. Though I don't know who these awesome whoring men are finding their women. Aren't they guilty of creating "whores" when they go sleeping around? But somehow only the women are tainted by these encounters. The men remain awesome. But somehow, we are told that biology is the cause of this and that there's no use fighting it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I agree with you here. Men and women whoring themselves out is a huge problem for society. The number one cause of poverty is single parenthood. Sluts should be shamed. 'Players' should be shown to be pathetic. If you listen to a sizeable portion of GD, it's only women whoring themselves that is the problem. Men whoring are awesome. Though I don't know who these awesome whoring men are finding their women. Aren't they guilty of creating "whores" when they go sleeping around? But somehow only the women are tainted by these encounters. The men remain awesome. But somehow, we are told that biology is the cause of this and that there's no use fighting it. Lol, I never looked at it like that. Yet another thing men are guilt of .....whore creation.
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:55:07 AM EDT
[#43]
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I'm sorry, women were never not allowed an education. As far as I can tell both sexes were educated in public schools since the founding of this nation. As far as women voting... well the consequences speak for themselves. Oh really? You mean that the colleges were 50/50% men and women at all times? Women were educated in medicine and pursued careers as doctors and so forth back in the day? Really? As for voting, who would you rather have a vote: The ladies here on ARFCOM, or Al Sharpton? I mean, he's a MAN, right? So if women weren't given the right to vote, fellas like him would still be voting!
There are more nuances to the vote than "women vote this way and men vote that way." I think Plane Jane pointed it out in a different thread. Look at the voting habits of single men, married women, and so forth. Another ARFCOM lady pointed out a while back that if we must pay taxes, we get to vote. Yet guys will bitch because we got the vote.
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Posted: 7/25/2014 10:57:47 AM EDT
[#44]
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I'm going to be an insensitive asshole right now. "Raped" or got drunk and regretted have sex the next day? This. I have been a cop in a shitty ass college town for 20 years and can count on ONE HAND the number of actual stranger grabbed off the street etc rapes. Now the first couple of weeks that schools in we take a shit load of I got drunk and slutted up the town and my boyfriend found out etc "Rapes." J- |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 11:00:26 AM EDT
[#45]
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See above. However, in many cases with which our society defines rape it would be okay. Take for example, drinking. If your wife gets drunk and you have sex with her, is it rape? I would say no, since she gave consent at the wedding. If you were to have sex with a drunk girl outside of marriage, many feminists would consider it rape. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So there isn't an expectation and obligation of sexual intercourse in a relationship? Or even in marriage? So if my wife doesn't sleep with me except for once every month, it's totally okay, because she doesn't owe me an orgasm? No one "owes" you anything. Regular sex is part of a good and healthy relationship, and a relationship may whither and die without it, but it isn't an entitlement. I've never said that it's "ok", but rather that it isn't an obligation. In other words, if she isn't giving it up, you can leave, but you don't have the right to just "take what's owed." In a marriage I would say the wife owes sex to the husband. The wife gave consent to the husband when they were married and she can't revoke it willy-nilly. Then again, I am a barbarian. So raping your wife is ok by you? See above. However, in many cases with which our society defines rape it would be okay. Take for example, drinking. If your wife gets drunk and you have sex with her, is it rape? I would say no, since she gave consent at the wedding. If you were to have sex with a drunk girl outside of marriage, many feminists would consider it rape. I'm out. Fuck this thread. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 11:00:32 AM EDT
[#46]
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Some women where it on their sleeve. We've crossed into some truly fucked up social situation where saying you've been raped puts you in certain class. And for those of you saying sleeping with a woman when she's drunk is dishonorable, grow up. What about when the guy is just as (if not more so) drunk? Seems to be 99% of the cases. Legally, sure. Nobody can consent to sex after a drink, but I'm not aware of a case where a guy claimed it and the woman was arrested for rape. There have been tons of cases where the roles were reversed. My position? Fuck off with your double standards and your "equality". Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Of the women I know close enough for them to tell me, I would guess 1/3 have been raped at some point. You can see how it still affects them and pisses me off to no end. WTF is wrong with this world? If I have daughters, they will start learning how to shoot at an early age. Do you steer the conversations toward rape? That, in and of itself, probably warrants a conversation between you and a professional. Some women where it on their sleeve. We've crossed into some truly fucked up social situation where saying you've been raped puts you in certain class. And for those of you saying sleeping with a woman when she's drunk is dishonorable, grow up. What about when the guy is just as (if not more so) drunk? Seems to be 99% of the cases. Legally, sure. Nobody can consent to sex after a drink, but I'm not aware of a case where a guy claimed it and the woman was arrested for rape. There have been tons of cases where the roles were reversed. My position? Fuck off with your double standards and your "equality". Maybe it's just the kind of women you attract or are attracted to? |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 11:01:10 AM EDT
[#47]
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Oh really? You mean that the colleges were 50/50% men and women at all times? Women were educated in medicine and pursued careers as doctors and so forth back in the day? Really? As for voting, who would you rather have a vote: The ladies here on ARFCOM, or Al Sharpton? I mean, he's a MAN, right? So if women weren't given the right to vote, fellas like him would still be voting!
There are more nuances to the vote than "women vote this way and men vote that way." I think Plane Jane pointed it out in a different thread. Look at the voting habits of single men, married women, and so forth. Another ARFCOM lady pointed out a while back that if we must pay taxes, we get to vote. Yet guys will bitch because we got the vote. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm sorry, women were never not allowed an education. As far as I can tell both sexes were educated in public schools since the founding of this nation. As far as women voting... well the consequences speak for themselves. Oh really? You mean that the colleges were 50/50% men and women at all times? Women were educated in medicine and pursued careers as doctors and so forth back in the day? Really? As for voting, who would you rather have a vote: The ladies here on ARFCOM, or Al Sharpton? I mean, he's a MAN, right? So if women weren't given the right to vote, fellas like him would still be voting!
There are more nuances to the vote than "women vote this way and men vote that way." I think Plane Jane pointed it out in a different thread. Look at the voting habits of single men, married women, and so forth. Another ARFCOM lady pointed out a while back that if we must pay taxes, we get to vote. Yet guys will bitch because we got the vote. Colleges aren't 50/50 men and women now. Now they are skewed women. So would you say that men are being denied an education now? In all reality it is stupid for a society to take women and place them in higher education for up to eight years. Taking women during their most fertile years and educating them for jobs that they don't need to do is foolish. Women are far more valuable as mothers (and happier). I know plenty of women with PhDs who are now childless spinsters. I'm sure that deep down they wish they had children and a devoted husband instead of cats and a worthless PhD. I support limiting the franchise in many ways, not just barring women to vote. I think you should have to be a male property owner. That way you have some skin in the game. Bear in mind that by my own restricted franchise, I would be barred from voting. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 11:01:22 AM EDT
[#48]
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Oh really? You mean that the colleges were 50/50% men and women at all times? Women were educated in medicine and pursued careers as doctors and so forth back in the day? Really? As for voting, who would you rather have a vote: The ladies here on ARFCOM, or Al Sharpton? I mean, he's a MAN, right? So if women weren't given the right to vote, fellas like him would still be voting!
There are more nuances to the vote than "women vote this way and men vote that way." I think Plane Jane pointed it out in a different thread. Look at the voting habits of single men, married women, and so forth. Another ARFCOM lady pointed out a while back that if we must pay taxes, we get to vote. Yet guys will bitch because we got the vote. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm sorry, women were never not allowed an education. As far as I can tell both sexes were educated in public schools since the founding of this nation. As far as women voting... well the consequences speak for themselves. Oh really? You mean that the colleges were 50/50% men and women at all times? Women were educated in medicine and pursued careers as doctors and so forth back in the day? Really? As for voting, who would you rather have a vote: The ladies here on ARFCOM, or Al Sharpton? I mean, he's a MAN, right? So if women weren't given the right to vote, fellas like him would still be voting!
There are more nuances to the vote than "women vote this way and men vote that way." I think Plane Jane pointed it out in a different thread. Look at the voting habits of single men, married women, and so forth. Another ARFCOM lady pointed out a while back that if we must pay taxes, we get to vote. Yet guys will bitch because we got the vote. Sharpton attempts to do with the Black community exactly what many feminist figureheads do with the female community, which is to convince them that they have been wronged by society and deserve to be compensated for it. For Sharpton the boogeyman is "Whites", for feminists it's "the Patriarchy". Same shtick, different players, however both vote for those who promise to go out and use the force of government to get revenge on their alleged oppressors. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 11:02:06 AM EDT
[#49]
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Lol, I never looked at it like that. Yet another thing men are guilt of .....whore creation.
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I agree with you here. Men and women whoring themselves out is a huge problem for society. The number one cause of poverty is single parenthood. Sluts should be shamed. 'Players' should be shown to be pathetic. If you listen to a sizeable portion of GD, it's only women whoring themselves that is the problem. Men whoring are awesome. Though I don't know who these awesome whoring men are finding their women. Aren't they guilty of creating "whores" when they go sleeping around? But somehow only the women are tainted by these encounters. The men remain awesome. But somehow, we are told that biology is the cause of this and that there's no use fighting it. Lol, I never looked at it like that. Yet another thing men are guilt of .....whore creation.
Perhaps because you're not a self-serving, entitlement-minded asshole, cheri. |
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Posted: 7/25/2014 11:04:21 AM EDT
[#50]
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I'm out. Fuck this thread. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So raping your wife is ok by you? See above. However, in many cases with which our society defines rape it would be okay. Take for example, drinking. If your wife gets drunk and you have sex with her, is it rape? I would say no, since she gave consent at the wedding. If you were to have sex with a drunk girl outside of marriage, many feminists would consider it rape. I'm out. Fuck this thread. Wimp! 
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