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Posted: 7/23/2014 12:18:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I really don't think it was planned because it will cost the Dems a lot and Barry wouldn't have tied his name to something that he knew would fail. It's merely Democrat incompetence at its finest. The end result will be single payer. I hear people today bitch about 0bama, what a cluster fuck, and their conclusion, "they should just make it FREE like we thought it was". More government control fucked it up, so the answer is TOTAL government control. Americans must be getting dumber. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
End result will be single-payer as planned. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I really don't think it was planned because it will cost the Dems a lot and Barry wouldn't have tied his name to something that he knew would fail. It's merely Democrat incompetence at its finest. The end result will be single payer. I hear people today bitch about 0bama, what a cluster fuck, and their conclusion, "they should just make it FREE like we thought it was". More government control fucked it up, so the answer is TOTAL government control. Americans must be getting dumber. I seem to remember BHO stating this is a necessary step in order to get to single payer. This was in 2008. http://youtu.be/fpAyan1fXCE |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 4:29:53 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 3% tax upon the seller of a home - crazy. this is the stuff that makes me want to pull out my hair. and you barely hear a peep about it. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 4:33:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
End result will be single-payer as planned. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile NO ! |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 4:35:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryLet's just look at the people who had their cheap plans canceled and were forced to buy new plans. That wasn't simply a matter of the insurance company switch from one plan to another. The insurers had to make major changes to their business offerings, changes to their processing systems, changes to the price structures, re-training employees, restructuring their compliance systems and record keeping systems and retention, developing new forms and porting their systems to the exchanges which were created. So how do they go back? Just say, ok we'll start the new plans back up again? It's not that simple. These insurance companies basically had to restructure everything that they sell, how they bill, how they keep records, how they comply, how they train their employees, how they communicate with their customers, how they approve claims, which types of claims they can, can't and must approve. Go back isn't just like flipping a switch. It would be an enormous, costly effort. so we just surrender? concede ? that's all I'm hearing. "they'll blame us" "they'll say it's out fault". so they lie, cheat and steal and they're winning, so we just start accepting it ? really ? |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 4:41:29 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even Canadian-style "single payer" is a half measure. We should go to a full British-style National Health Service, in which doctors are government employees and hospitals are government-owned institutions. (Of course, there are some doctors and clinics that operate privately, in parallel with the public system. You can go to a private doctor if you can afford it, or have private insurance to cover it.) Health care is a public right, just like clean air and water, and the minimum food to keep people alive. this would just about destroy our economy. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 4:43:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Canceling the subsidy would be an unmitigated disaster that will result in single payer more than any other action. Without ending the mandate people that can't afford the plan they have to buy without the subsidy. You end up with millions that can't afford the insurance (not even healthcare) they have to buy, and when push comes to shove political parties don't matter when your wallet is empty and the bills come due. the mandate should be the first thing we kill. it's the biggest steaming pile in the whole steaming pile. I don't want single-payer either. and since WHEN is healthcare a right ? |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 4:44:26 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Getting rid of Obamacare wouldn't be hard. Just send everyone cancellation notices and throw away all the paperwork concerning the law. People have to get new plans. Oh well. Obviously said by someone covered by insurance through employer. It's not so easy if the insurance you relied on when you retired, was cancelled by the former employer and the retirees were told to get obamacare policies. If the law is overturned, where do they go? Oh well, a new policy is ONLY $1300 a month, right? |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 4:44:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so we just surrender? concede ? that's all I'm hearing. "they'll blame us" "they'll say it's out fault". so they lie, cheat and steal and they're winning, so we just start accepting it ? really ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let's just look at the people who had their cheap plans canceled and were forced to buy new plans. That wasn't simply a matter of the insurance company switch from one plan to another. The insurers had to make major changes to their business offerings, changes to their processing systems, changes to the price structures, re-training employees, restructuring their compliance systems and record keeping systems and retention, developing new forms and porting their systems to the exchanges which were created. So how do they go back? Just say, ok we'll start the new plans back up again? It's not that simple. These insurance companies basically had to restructure everything that they sell, how they bill, how they keep records, how they comply, how they train their employees, how they communicate with their customers, how they approve claims, which types of claims they can, can't and must approve. Go back isn't just like flipping a switch. It would be an enormous, costly effort. so we just surrender? concede ? that's all I'm hearing. "they'll blame us" "they'll say it's out fault". so they lie, cheat and steal and they're winning, so we just start accepting it ? really ? This. Nothing but let's give up and do nothing...Law of the land etc....We can't go back.....America is dying...America is lost forever..DNC trolls. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 4:48:14 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: so we just surrender? concede ? that's all I'm hearing. "they'll blame us" "they'll say it's out fault". so they lie, cheat and steal and they're winning, so we just start accepting it ? really ? Quote HistoryQuoted: Let's just look at the people who had their cheap plans canceled and were forced to buy new plans. That wasn't simply a matter of the insurance company switch from one plan to another. The insurers had to make major changes to their business offerings, changes to their processing systems, changes to the price structures, re-training employees, restructuring their compliance systems and record keeping systems and retention, developing new forms and porting their systems to the exchanges which were created. So how do they go back? Just say, ok we'll start the new plans back up again? It's not that simple. These insurance companies basically had to restructure everything that they sell, how they bill, how they keep records, how they comply, how they train their employees, how they communicate with their customers, how they approve claims, which types of claims they can, can't and must approve. Go back isn't just like flipping a switch. It would be an enormous, costly effort. so we just surrender? concede ? that's all I'm hearing. "they'll blame us" "they'll say it's out fault". so they lie, cheat and steal and they're winning, so we just start accepting it ? really ? Oh I surrendered a looooong time ago. Anyone who thinks they're going to save America by writing their Congressman and vote like crazy for people who are going to "restore the Constitution" are on drugs. We are up Shit Creek, we have no paddles and there is nothing we can do about it. At this point, the cure is just as fatal as the disease. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 4:50:10 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Nothing but let's give up and do nothing...Law of the land etc....We can't go back.....America is dying...America is lost forever..DNC trolls. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Let's just look at the people who had their cheap plans canceled and were forced to buy new plans. That wasn't simply a matter of the insurance company switch from one plan to another. The insurers had to make major changes to their business offerings, changes to their processing systems, changes to the price structures, re-training employees, restructuring their compliance systems and record keeping systems and retention, developing new forms and porting their systems to the exchanges which were created. So how do they go back? Just say, ok we'll start the new plans back up again? It's not that simple. These insurance companies basically had to restructure everything that they sell, how they bill, how they keep records, how they comply, how they train their employees, how they communicate with their customers, how they approve claims, which types of claims they can, can't and must approve. Go back isn't just like flipping a switch. It would be an enormous, costly effort. so we just surrender? concede ? that's all I'm hearing. "they'll blame us" "they'll say it's out fault". so they lie, cheat and steal and they're winning, so we just start accepting it ? really ? This. Nothing but let's give up and do nothing...Law of the land etc....We can't go back.....America is dying...America is lost forever..DNC trolls. OK. So then offer an answer to any of the questions I've asked. Do you really think everything will go back to the way it was before Obamacare, just like that, minor speed bump, back to it then? |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 4:52:32 PM EDT
[#11]
Its meant to collapse.....just not so quick and its not supposed to make dems look bad. The end game has always been single payer, and this obamacare scheme was simply engineered to usher in single payer.
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Posted: 7/23/2014 5:02:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This, Boner may even cry again What will happen is the feds with force the states to set up their own exchanges, they will do this by withholding funds of some type until they set up their own system to the federal standards. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nothing. The Senate will put a "fix" in a must-pass bill, and the Republicans will cave. /thtread This, Boner may even cry again What will happen is the feds with force the states to set up their own exchanges, they will do this by withholding funds of some type until they set up their own system to the federal standards. The feds already tried bribing the states with billions of dollars in medicaid funds.The catch was that after a cerrtain number of years the federal money would end and the states would have to pay for all future medicaid expenses. This would mean massive state tax increases to provide free medical to all welfare assholes in each state that agred to sign on. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 5:05:04 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even Canadian-style "single payer" is a half measure. We should go to a full British-style National Health Service, in which doctors are government employees and hospitals are government-owned institutions. (Of course, there are some doctors and clinics that operate privately, in parallel with the public system. You can go to a private doctor if you can afford it, or have private insurance to cover it.) Health care is a public right, just like clean air and water, and the minimum food to keep people alive. You are ignorant and you are just plain wrong. Health care is not a right. 
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Posted: 7/23/2014 5:06:14 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK. So then offer an answer to any of the questions I've asked. Do you really think everything will go back to the way it was before Obamacare, just like that, minor speed bump, back to it then? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Let's just look at the people who had their cheap plans canceled and were forced to buy new plans. That wasn't simply a matter of the insurance company switch from one plan to another. The insurers had to make major changes to their business offerings, changes to their processing systems, changes to the price structures, re-training employees, restructuring their compliance systems and record keeping systems and retention, developing new forms and porting their systems to the exchanges which were created. So how do they go back? Just say, ok we'll start the new plans back up again? It's not that simple. These insurance companies basically had to restructure everything that they sell, how they bill, how they keep records, how they comply, how they train their employees, how they communicate with their customers, how they approve claims, which types of claims they can, can't and must approve. Go back isn't just like flipping a switch. It would be an enormous, costly effort. so we just surrender? concede ? that's all I'm hearing. "they'll blame us" "they'll say it's out fault". so they lie, cheat and steal and they're winning, so we just start accepting it ? really ? This. Nothing but let's give up and do nothing...Law of the land etc....We can't go back.....America is dying...America is lost forever..DNC trolls. OK. So then offer an answer to any of the questions I've asked. Do you really think everything will go back to the way it was before Obamacare, just like that, minor speed bump, back to it then? Going back to purchasing health insurance is a personal choice would be a good start. Then going back to where you had a choice in what your insurance covered would be a good next step. Allowing insurance companies sell across state line provided they complied with the state DOI regs would be a good third step. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 5:06:37 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The free market will fill in the demand for insurance policies of varying levels. IF there is a buck to be made the insurance companies will package a product, I don't trust the government to do it. As for those companies that were complicit with the government IOT drive the smaller companies out of the market, may leprosy be upon them. Its their fault EVERYBODY has to carry the same coverages for stuff not even relevant to their gender. They could have easily written the law to require all female policies to cover those items, but they knew they could reap $ by having the gov't require OB/GYN coverage on male policies, too. This |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 5:17:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Obviously said by someone covered by insurance through employer. It's not so easy if the insurance you relied on when you retired, was cancelled by the former employer and the retirees were told to get obamacare policies. If the law is overturned, where do they go? Oh well, a new policy is ONLY $1300 a month, right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Getting rid of Obamacare wouldn't be hard. Just send everyone cancellation notices and throw away all the paperwork concerning the law. People have to get new plans. Oh well. Obviously said by someone covered by insurance through employer. It's not so easy if the insurance you relied on when you retired, was cancelled by the former employer and the retirees were told to get obamacare policies. If the law is overturned, where do they go? Oh well, a new policy is ONLY $1300 a month, right? No. I have private insurance. It tripled in price this year. The fact that health insurance is so expensive is a travesty. That's what happens when the government regulates it to hell and subsidizes people. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 5:20:26 PM EDT
[#17]
Don't care about the aftermath.
Fly it and watch. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 5:21:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
..snip.. So the law goes in to effect, and you have your CO2 scrubber installed because the government was going to foreclose on your home and evict you if you did not comply. Then, a year later, the courts decide that the law in unconstitutional after all and you don't have to have the scrubber in your home. Now what? Now you're stuck with a government mandated device in your house, that you never wanted or asked for, sucking up your electricity to function. But how do you just go back to the way it was? You can't rip the thing out, it was built to be tamper proof and prevent you from removing it. Do you pay, out of YOUR pocket to have the certified uninstaller come out and remove your tamper proof CO2 scrubber? Or do you just leave it there? if it was a scrubber... Irregardless of how the current scrubber is handled, at least my next house is not required to have one installed, and my children and grandchildren will not be forced to have one installed either. I'd also make sure that I remember on the Tuesday in November, exactly who forced me to put that damn thing in to begin with. But that's just me. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 5:24:52 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Going back to purchasing health insurance is a personal choice would be a good start. Then going back to where you had a choice in what your insurance covered would be a good next step. Allowing insurance companies sell across state line provided they complied with the state DOI regs would be a good third step. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Let's just look at the people who had their cheap plans canceled and were forced to buy new plans. That wasn't simply a matter of the insurance company switch from one plan to another. The insurers had to make major changes to their business offerings, changes to their processing systems, changes to the price structures, re-training employees, restructuring their compliance systems and record keeping systems and retention, developing new forms and porting their systems to the exchanges which were created. So how do they go back? Just say, ok we'll start the new plans back up again? It's not that simple. These insurance companies basically had to restructure everything that they sell, how they bill, how they keep records, how they comply, how they train their employees, how they communicate with their customers, how they approve claims, which types of claims they can, can't and must approve. Go back isn't just like flipping a switch. It would be an enormous, costly effort. so we just surrender? concede ? that's all I'm hearing. "they'll blame us" "they'll say it's out fault". so they lie, cheat and steal and they're winning, so we just start accepting it ? really ? This. Nothing but let's give up and do nothing...Law of the land etc....We can't go back.....America is dying...America is lost forever..DNC trolls. OK. So then offer an answer to any of the questions I've asked. Do you really think everything will go back to the way it was before Obamacare, just like that, minor speed bump, back to it then? Going back to purchasing health insurance is a personal choice would be a good start. Then going back to where you had a choice in what your insurance covered would be a good next step. Allowing insurance companies sell across state line provided they complied with the state DOI regs would be a good third step. It won't happen that way. If the Supreme Court throws out the subsidies for states that don't have exchanges, or throws them out completely, then the insurers will still have the standards of service that Obamacare imposes on them. People will still have to pay the Obamacare tax for not enrolling or having coverage...they just won't be getting the promised subsidies, which means insurers won't be getting the money they were counting on to cover people with pre-existing conditions or people they would disqualify and drop. So they'll raise prices on everyone else. That'll lead to lay offs, employers dropping coverage, more people dropping their own coverage. Obama isn't going to approve any legislation that undoes any part of the ACA, and the Republicans will never get a veto proof majority. And we'll end up getting ass raped.
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Posted: 7/23/2014 5:45:04 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Obviously said by someone covered by insurance through employer. It's not so easy if the insurance you relied on when you retired, was cancelled by the former employer and the retirees were told to get obamacare policies. If the law is overturned, where do they go? Oh well, a new policy is ONLY $1300 a month, right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Getting rid of Obamacare wouldn't be hard. Just send everyone cancellation notices and throw away all the paperwork concerning the law. People have to get new plans. Oh well. Obviously said by someone covered by insurance through employer. It's not so easy if the insurance you relied on when you retired, was cancelled by the former employer and the retirees were told to get obamacare policies. If the law is overturned, where do they go? Oh well, a new policy is ONLY $1300 a month, right? There might be a damn good reason it's $1300.00 a month if that person is a poor risk. This is going just about the way I figured. The subsidized (on the back of everyone else) will scream bloody murder when they have to pay rates proportional to the risk they present to a insurance company. They will demand something be done. Of course they don't give a fat rat's ass that other folks had to pay out the ass for their insurance so the semi-FSA could be subsidized.
They threw their lot in with the devil to go cheap on the backs of others and will have to pay. Welcome to the real world. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 6:00:53 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the mandate should be the first thing we kill. it's the biggest steaming pile in the whole steaming pile. I don't want single-payer either. and since WHEN is healthcare a right ? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Canceling the subsidy would be an unmitigated disaster that will result in single payer more than any other action. Without ending the mandate people that can't afford the plan they have to buy without the subsidy. You end up with millions that can't afford the insurance (not even healthcare) they have to buy, and when push comes to shove political parties don't matter when your wallet is empty and the bills come due. the mandate should be the first thing we kill. it's the biggest steaming pile in the whole steaming pile. I don't want single-payer either. and since WHEN is healthcare a right ?  |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 6:20:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so we just surrender? concede ? that's all I'm hearing. "they'll blame us" "they'll say it's out fault". so they lie, cheat and steal and they're winning, so we just start accepting it ? really ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let's just look at the people who had their cheap plans canceled and were forced to buy new plans. That wasn't simply a matter of the insurance company switch from one plan to another. The insurers had to make major changes to their business offerings, changes to their processing systems, changes to the price structures, re-training employees, restructuring their compliance systems and record keeping systems and retention, developing new forms and porting their systems to the exchanges which were created. So how do they go back? Just say, ok we'll start the new plans back up again? It's not that simple. These insurance companies basically had to restructure everything that they sell, how they bill, how they keep records, how they comply, how they train their employees, how they communicate with their customers, how they approve claims, which types of claims they can, can't and must approve. Go back isn't just like flipping a switch. It would be an enormous, costly effort. so we just surrender? concede ? that's all I'm hearing. "they'll blame us" "they'll say it's out fault". so they lie, cheat and steal and they're winning, so we just start accepting it ? really ? Nah, there are plenty of workable solutions that don't involve single payer or even government interference. We are better off replacing the current system with one that works than burning it all to the ground. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 6:27:42 PM EDT
[#23]
The fix is that states without exchanges will set up exchanges. There will be more time and money added for this. It is inefficient, but so are state drivers licenses.
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Posted: 7/24/2014 2:47:31 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It won't happen that way. If the Supreme Court throws out the subsidies for states that don't have exchanges, or throws them out completely, then the insurers will still have the standards of service that Obamacare imposes on them. People will still have to pay the Obamacare tax for not enrolling or having coverage...they just won't be getting the promised subsidies, which means insurers won't be getting the money they were counting on to cover people with pre-existing conditions or people they would disqualify and drop. So they'll raise prices on everyone else. That'll lead to lay offs, employers dropping coverage, more people dropping their own coverage. Obama isn't going to approve any legislation that undoes any part of the ACA, and the Republicans will never get a veto proof majority. And we'll end up getting ass raped. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
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so we just surrender? concede ? that's all I'm hearing. "they'll blame us" "they'll say it's out fault". so they lie, cheat and steal and they're winning, so we just start accepting it ? really ? This. Nothing but let's give up and do nothing...Law of the land etc....We can't go back.....America is dying...America is lost forever..DNC trolls. OK. So then offer an answer to any of the questions I've asked. Do you really think everything will go back to the way it was before Obamacare, just like that, minor speed bump, back to it then? Going back to purchasing health insurance is a personal choice would be a good start. Then going back to where you had a choice in what your insurance covered would be a good next step. Allowing insurance companies sell across state line provided they complied with the state DOI regs would be a good third step. It won't happen that way. If the Supreme Court throws out the subsidies for states that don't have exchanges, or throws them out completely, then the insurers will still have the standards of service that Obamacare imposes on them. People will still have to pay the Obamacare tax for not enrolling or having coverage...they just won't be getting the promised subsidies, which means insurers won't be getting the money they were counting on to cover people with pre-existing conditions or people they would disqualify and drop. So they'll raise prices on everyone else. That'll lead to lay offs, employers dropping coverage, more people dropping their own coverage. Obama isn't going to approve any legislation that undoes any part of the ACA, and the Republicans will never get a veto proof majority. And we'll end up getting ass raped. I agree that nothing will change with Obama in office. That said, the next POTUS could simply continue the precedence set by Obama and give everyone all insurance companies waiver of the regs and mandates. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:00:20 AM EDT
[#25]
The first thing that will happen I assume will be the fucking FSA not getting their fucking subsidies.
After that, I have no idea to tell you the truth. The reason being this is a monumental clusterfuck dumbass democrats hoisted upon us. When dumbasses pass a monumental law they know little about............who knows what the ramifications will be if it turns out to be invalid. I sure as fuck don't. This is what happens when the Party of STUPID does something they are not smart enough to delve into. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:05:03 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is exactly what will happen. I think Obamacare is terrible, but hoping that it is somehow cancelled in one fell swoop rather than carefully unwound is like hoping for SHTF because you think it will be fun. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Nothing. The Senate will put a "fix" in a must-pass bill, and the Republicans will cave. /thtread This is exactly what will happen. I think Obamacare is terrible, but hoping that it is somehow cancelled in one fell swoop rather than carefully unwound is like hoping for SHTF because you think it will be fun. I disagree. Dump it as fast as it was implemented. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:06:59 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.................... I disagree. Dump it as fast as it was implemented. THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:07:26 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Obamacare was a sellout to the health insurance, pharmaceutical, and hospital industries. And Obama himself is a wimpy tool of Wall Street. Single payer would have been a better system. But I give up. Seeing that the fix was in, I invested in a basket of pharmaceutical stocks. And I've made out handsomely. Oh yeah. Obama was a tool of wall street. 
Not Unions, special interests, Big government cronies... 
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:09:28 AM EDT
[#29]
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what do you do with people in process of undergoing treatment? kill em off? cover them - how? with what? how do you deal with people who paid for insurance out of pocket? cancel them? how do you handle overlap? how do you deal with people that paid but aren't really covered? Fuck them and their money? what about the money states spent? what about money that corporations spent? yeah, real simple.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Getting rid of Obamacare wouldn't be hard. Just send everyone cancellation notices and throw away all the paperwork concerning the law. People have to get new plans. Oh well. It's no where near that simple. Then please enlighten us. what do you do with people in process of undergoing treatment? kill em off? cover them - how? with what? how do you deal with people who paid for insurance out of pocket? cancel them? how do you handle overlap? how do you deal with people that paid but aren't really covered? Fuck them and their money? what about the money states spent? what about money that corporations spent? yeah, real simple. The money is spent and there is no recovering it. Look at the amount of money we as a government have spent on it too. It's all a sunk cost at this point. And I think the insurance companies can change back to their old plans just as (relatively) fast as they complied with Obamacare. Shitty national policy mistakes are expensive and Obamacare is a prime example. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:13:57 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh yeah. Obama was a tool of wall street.
Not Unions, special interests, Big government cronies...
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Obamacare was a sellout to the health insurance, pharmaceutical, and hospital industries. And Obama himself is a wimpy tool of Wall Street. Single payer would have been a better system. But I give up. Seeing that the fix was in, I invested in a basket of pharmaceutical stocks. And I've made out handsomely. Oh yeah. Obama was a tool of wall street.
Not Unions, special interests, Big government cronies...
I can agree on Tool. 
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:14:29 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Millions of poor people will be forced to spend money on unsubsidized health insurance creating a nightmare. Democrats will put in a bill to fix it. Rep will vote against it. Rep will be blamed for everything. Rep will vote for a bill to repeal obamacare. Dems will vote against it. Rep will be blamed for everything. Taxpayers will be punished either way. I don't think the case will win in court though, sounds like intent is what wins it. Except when it comes to 2a. Millions of uninsured NEVER payed a penny before, still don't spend a penny, and never WILL spend a penny into the healthcare system. Millions. Millions and millions. Obamacare is like EBT. It looks like people are just using an ATM card to buy things, instead of using food stamps. But bottom line, it's still food stamps. obamacare = EBT Nothing changes for the "poor" except the name of the welfare benefit. Everybody I know is affected by obamacare in the sense that we are paying considerably more for average health care, or losing our benefits through our work, or being reduced in hours at work to part time. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:24:50 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.............. Millions of uninsured NEVER payed a penny before, still don't spend a penny, and never WILL spend a penny into the healthcare system. Millions. Millions and millions. Obamacare is like EBT. It looks like people are just using an ATM card to buy things, instead of using food stamps. But bottom line, it's still food stamps. obamacare = EBT Nothing changes for the "poor" except the name of the welfare benefit. Everybody I know is affected by obamacare in the sense that we are paying considerably more for average health care, or losing our benefits through our work, or being reduced in hours at work to part time. This is what happens when you base a law on the needs of the fucking, useless FSA. 
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Posted: 7/24/2014 3:25:32 AM EDT
[#33]
It was an asinine plan to begin with-anyone with any sense could see that. Now that it has turned into the ball of fishing line knot from hell the only recourse is to throw it away and start over.
The argument is: Free Markets vs. Socialism. That's it-that is the bottom line. What direction do we go in this once great country? Since the "old school" free market was in place and functioning once it will be easier to return to that model quickly. Yes, if you have an obamacare policy today-you won't have one tomorrow. Find a new one. Employers will be able to hire people who can now work a 40 hour week again without fear. The Fucking IRS can fire a whole shit load of fucking JBT's who want to comb through everyone' s taxes to "fine" them. People can have a sane country again without some wannabe big eared boy king using his pen and phone every other day to fuck things up even more. There are laws of unintended consequences at work here and no one in this regime is smart enough to understand that-let alone what will and is happening as a result. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:03:11 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh yeah. Obama was a tool of wall street.
Not Unions, special interests, Big government cronies...
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Obamacare was a sellout to the health insurance, pharmaceutical, and hospital industries. And Obama himself is a wimpy tool of Wall Street. Single payer would have been a better system. But I give up. Seeing that the fix was in, I invested in a basket of pharmaceutical stocks. And I've made out handsomely. Oh yeah. Obama was a tool of wall street.
Not Unions, special interests, Big government cronies...
The insurance companies are about to get fucked royally for supporting Obamacare. We stand a better chance of going to single payer because the insurance companies will go bankrupt before we see congress force single payer on us. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:06:23 AM EDT
[#35]
ObamaCare is just a step along the path to government controlled medical treatment. Large employers are tired of paying for the medical treatment of their employees and the employees' families. The cost is enormous and puts the companies at a competitive disadvantage compared to companies which bear only a small potion of those costs
When the government takes over control of medical treatment and employer paid plans are ended, employers will tell their employees, "The devil government made us do it!" |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:09:46 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The insurance companies are about to get fucked royally for supporting Obamacare. We stand a better chance of going to single payer because the insurance companies will go bankrupt before we see congress force single payer on us. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Obamacare was a sellout to the health insurance, pharmaceutical, and hospital industries. And Obama himself is a wimpy tool of Wall Street. Single payer would have been a better system. But I give up. Seeing that the fix was in, I invested in a basket of pharmaceutical stocks. And I've made out handsomely. Oh yeah. Obama was a tool of wall street.
Not Unions, special interests, Big government cronies...
The insurance companies are about to get fucked royally for supporting Obamacare. We stand a better chance of going to single payer because the insurance companies will go bankrupt before we see congress force single payer on us. Insurance companies never get fucked.....ever. It's why they are who they are and they have a legal responsibility to not put themselves in a position to be fucked....Customers on the other hand? Nevertheless, I would rather deal with an insurance company in competition with another "free market" competitior than with a .gov take it or leave it, sucks to be you, I'll change the law with an executive order, and the IRS is all up in your shit system any day. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:10:26 AM EDT
[#37]
What will be the repercussions of Obamacare is thrown it in court? We'll have to throw it out to see what the repercussions will be. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:16:13 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The insurance companies are about to get fucked royally for supporting Obamacare. 
Clearly you've never heard the term, "Too Big To Fail". It's not just for banks. Insurance companies will be fully indemnified from the public treasury for all losses which they incur as a result of ObamaCare and its collapse. When government controlled medical treatment is instituted, insurance companies will get contracts (very lucrative contracts) to administer the program. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:24:00 AM EDT
[#39]
Why do you think that Obama did not accomplish what he wanted to accomplish?
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:25:57 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Clearly you've never heard the term, "Too Big To Fail". It's not just for banks. Insurance companies will be fully indemnified from the public treasury for all losses which they incur as a result of ObamaCare and its collapse. When government controlled medical treatment is instituted, insurance companies will get contracts (very lucrative contracts) to administer the program. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The insurance companies are about to get fucked royally for supporting Obamacare.
Clearly you've never heard the term, "Too Big To Fail". It's not just for banks. Insurance companies will be fully indemnified from the public treasury for all losses which they incur as a result of ObamaCare and its collapse. When government controlled medical treatment is instituted, insurance companies will get contracts (very lucrative contracts) to administer the program. The AIG bailout comes to mind. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:31:06 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The AIG bailout comes to mind. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The insurance companies are about to get fucked royally for supporting Obamacare.
Clearly you've never heard the term, "Too Big To Fail". It's not just for banks. Insurance companies will be fully indemnified from the public treasury for all losses which they incur as a result of ObamaCare and its collapse. When government controlled medical treatment is instituted, insurance companies will get contracts (very lucrative contracts) to administer the program. The AIG bailout comes to mind. The problem with the banking "too big to fail" analogy is that there aren't several AIG's in all 50 States. Would only the largest insurer in each state get the bailout? Would the rest be forced into bankruptcy? |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:33:19 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.............. The problem with the banking "too big to fail" analogy is that there aren't several AIG's in all 50 States. Would only the largest insurer in each state get the bailout? Would the rest be forced into bankruptcy? They have subsidiaries and they would all be bailed out IMHO. If they can pass a 2,000+ page law with 30,000+ pages of regulations, they can easily bailout subsidiaries in 50 States IMHO. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:35:12 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They have subsidiaries and they would all be bailed out IMHO. If they can pass a 2,000+ page law with 30,000+ pages of regulations, they can easily bailout subsidiaries in 50 States IMHO. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
.............. The problem with the banking "too big to fail" analogy is that there aren't several AIG's in all 50 States. Would only the largest insurer in each state get the bailout? Would the rest be forced into bankruptcy? They have subsidiaries and they would all be bailed out IMHO. If they can pass a 2,000+ page law with 30,000+ pages of regulations, they can easily bailout subsidiaries in 50 States IMHO. Subsidies were just ruled illegal in 33 States.
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:37:00 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Subsidies were just ruled illegal in 33 States. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
.............. The problem with the banking "too big to fail" analogy is that there aren't several AIG's in all 50 States. Would only the largest insurer in each state get the bailout? Would the rest be forced into bankruptcy? They have subsidiaries and they would all be bailed out IMHO. If they can pass a 2,000+ page law with 30,000+ pages of regulations, they can easily bailout subsidiaries in 50 States IMHO. Subsidies were just ruled illegal in 33 States. Good one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:42:19 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let's just look at the people who had their cheap plans canceled and were forced to buy new plans. That wasn't simply a matter of the insurance company switch from one plan to another. The insurers had to make major changes to their business offerings, changes to their processing systems, changes to the price structures, re-training employees, restructuring their compliance systems and record keeping systems and retention, developing new forms and porting their systems to the exchanges which were created. So how do they go back? Just say, ok we'll start the new plans back up again? It's not that simple. These insurance companies basically had to restructure everything that they sell, how they bill, how they keep records, how they comply, how they train their employees, how they communicate with their customers, how they approve claims, which types of claims they can, can't and must approve. Go back isn't just like flipping a switch. It would be an enormous, costly effort. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Getting rid of Obamacare wouldn't be hard. Just send everyone cancellation notices and throw away all the paperwork concerning the law. People have to get new plans. Oh well. It's no where near that simple. Then please enlighten us. Let's just look at the people who had their cheap plans canceled and were forced to buy new plans. That wasn't simply a matter of the insurance company switch from one plan to another. The insurers had to make major changes to their business offerings, changes to their processing systems, changes to the price structures, re-training employees, restructuring their compliance systems and record keeping systems and retention, developing new forms and porting their systems to the exchanges which were created. So how do they go back? Just say, ok we'll start the new plans back up again? It's not that simple. These insurance companies basically had to restructure everything that they sell, how they bill, how they keep records, how they comply, how they train their employees, how they communicate with their customers, how they approve claims, which types of claims they can, can't and must approve. Go back isn't just like flipping a switch. It would be an enormous, costly effort. Peanuts compared to what it will cost them otherwise. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:50:49 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The problem with the banking "too big to fail" analogy is that there aren't several AIG's in all 50 States. Would only the largest insurer in each state get the bailout? Would the rest be forced into bankruptcy? The government will probably pick and choose. That's the essence of cronyism. The companies not favored by the government will be forced into what now passes for bankruptcy (Remember that the auto company "bankruptcies" ignored the rules of bankruptcy. Decisions were made arbitrarily by the government without any regard to the law.) and their assets will be sold - at bargain basement prices - to those companies which are favored with bailouts and which therefore survive. The net result will be consolidation of the industry, in the hands of those favored by the government.  Shocking, right?
The remaining companies then get the contracts to administer the new government program. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:54:44 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The government will probably pick and choose. That's the essence of cronyism. The companies not favored by the government will be forced into what now passes for bankruptcy (Remember that the auto company "bankruptcies" ignored the rules of bankruptcy. Decisions were made arbitrarily by the government without any regard to the law.) and their assets will be sold - at bargain basement prices - to those companies which are favored with bailouts and which therefore survive. The net result will be consolidation of the industry, in the hands of those favored by the government. Shocking, right?
The remaining companies then get the contracts to administer the new government program. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The problem with the banking "too big to fail" analogy is that there aren't several AIG's in all 50 States. Would only the largest insurer in each state get the bailout? Would the rest be forced into bankruptcy? The government will probably pick and choose. That's the essence of cronyism. The companies not favored by the government will be forced into what now passes for bankruptcy (Remember that the auto company "bankruptcies" ignored the rules of bankruptcy. Decisions were made arbitrarily by the government without any regard to the law.) and their assets will be sold - at bargain basement prices - to those companies which are favored with bailouts and which therefore survive. The net result will be consolidation of the industry, in the hands of those favored by the government. Shocking, right?
The remaining companies then get the contracts to administer the new government program. CLEARLY that could occur. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:55:53 AM EDT
[#48]
 agreed.
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:56:21 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Subsidies were just ruled illegal in 33 States. Those were subsidies to people. Should Congress determine that it is going to bailout insurance companies, those companies will provide platoons of lawyers to draft the bill and to review the bill countless times to ensure that no drafting error endangers their receipt of taxpayer money! Such things are far too important to be left in the hands of politicians. |
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Posted: 7/24/2014 4:56:24 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
agreed.Sucks but it is what it is.
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