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Posted: 7/22/2014 7:49:05 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Salt water is a good thing. Far vaster stretches of the ocean would be ice it it was not salt water. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Salt water is a good thing. Far vaster stretches of the ocean would be ice it it was not salt water. Edit: By the way, that 70% salt water doesn't mean the other 30% is fresh. Only 2.5% of the water on this planet God made for us is actually fresh water. 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 8:04:30 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "somehow"? I don't believe so. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Bible is the word of God; there are no "ideas" in it. The Bible is a collection of fairy tales written down by human beings. "God" is a man-made idea - an attempt by our ancestors to interpret the world we live in and to make sense of that which was not understood (especially back then, when people didn't know jack shit about our universe - certainly nowhere near what we know now). The story of the Bible is a collection of "ideas" written down by living beings - there is absolutely nothing divine about it. The idea that the Bible is "the word of God" is the biggest BS story in the history of mankind that has somehow managed to survive for centuries... "somehow"? I don't believe so. Yes - "somehow" In other words, it's astonishing, crazy, utterly ridiculous that people still subscribe to these man-made inventions - this idea of a fluffy white cloud heaven, a fiery torturous hell, and a supernatural sky "God" that watches everything we do - who judges the living and the dead. Mankind created all of this. The bible should be treated for what it is - a work of literature - nothing more.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 8:12:52 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why did your god make himself/herself known to only a small group of people in a single small area of the world? The Chinese, the Inca, the American Indians, etc. never got the memo... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Bible is the word of God; there are no "ideas" in it. Why did your god make himself/herself known to only a small group of people in a single small area of the world? The Chinese, the Inca, the American Indians, etc. never got the memo... There you go! As you said all of the civilizations worship a god. If he only made himself known to a small group then where did these other cultures get the idea to worship? In most cases the god is a peaceful god just as the Christian God is. So who's to say the other cultures just don't have their interpreted image of only one God. Most likely the different cultures may have played the old game telephone where the teachings have been passed down generation to generation but slightly changed here and there. As the presence of God is known but its up to you and your free will to decide how important those teachings are and how you pass them down. Maybe, I don't know 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 8:14:54 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes - "somehow" In other words, it's astonishing, crazy, utterly ridiculous that people still subscribe to these man-made inventions - this idea of a fluffy white cloud heaven, a fiery torturous hell, and a supernatural sky "God" that watches everything we do - who judges the living and the dead. Mankind created all of this. The bible should be treated for what it is - a work of literature - nothing more. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Bible is the word of God; there are no "ideas" in it. The Bible is a collection of fairy tales written down by human beings. "God" is a man-made idea - an attempt by our ancestors to interpret the world we live in and to make sense of that which was not understood (especially back then, when people didn't know jack shit about our universe - certainly nowhere near what we know now). The story of the Bible is a collection of "ideas" written down by living beings - there is absolutely nothing divine about it. The idea that the Bible is "the word of God" is the biggest BS story in the history of mankind that has somehow managed to survive for centuries... "somehow"? I don't believe so. Yes - "somehow" In other words, it's astonishing, crazy, utterly ridiculous that people still subscribe to these man-made inventions - this idea of a fluffy white cloud heaven, a fiery torturous hell, and a supernatural sky "God" that watches everything we do - who judges the living and the dead. Mankind created all of this. The bible should be treated for what it is - a work of literature - nothing more. 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 8:16:49 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think something just burst in my brain pan... |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 8:20:04 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Try finding some actual hard info to support that assertion. You won't. There is as much hard info about Zoroastrainism as there is about Celtic Druidism, namely virtually none. A couple of inscriptions and references from a few Greek historians, that's it for both. And from these crumbs people constantly claim that Christianity is completely discredited. Not buying it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Zoroastrianism. Try finding some actual hard info to support that assertion. You won't. There is as much hard info about Zoroastrainism as there is about Celtic Druidism, namely virtually none. A couple of inscriptions and references from a few Greek historians, that's it for both. And from these crumbs people constantly claim that Christianity is completely discredited. Not buying it. There are active Zoroastrian communities today with documented continuity to the distant past. Not Celtic Druidism. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 8:25:31 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, I've heard it proposed here that the God of Israel (and thus the Christian God) was co-opted from other, older Levantine cultures. It seems like this proposal was based around the common name "El", which could be used as a god generically or as the patriarch of the Canaanite pantheon and as the name of a god in a bunch of other cultures. This view seems to come up in various religious threads, but never in a thread dedicated to discussing that. Thus, my weak search fu does not allow me to find this idea among the bazillions of religious thread topics in GD's sordid past. I ask the question because I want to hear and understand this idea. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I don't think you accurately worded your question to voice the question you were thinking. You answered your question in the thread title. The idea for the Christian God was outlined in the Old and New Testaments, originating from God Himself. Or if you don't believe in Christianity, it originated from the authors of the several books. Were you instead asking where monotheism originated? No, I've heard it proposed here that the God of Israel (and thus the Christian God) was co-opted from other, older Levantine cultures. It seems like this proposal was based around the common name "El", which could be used as a god generically or as the patriarch of the Canaanite pantheon and as the name of a god in a bunch of other cultures. This view seems to come up in various religious threads, but never in a thread dedicated to discussing that. Thus, my weak search fu does not allow me to find this idea among the bazillions of religious thread topics in GD's sordid past. I ask the question because I want to hear and understand this idea. ^ah, I sorta glazed over this before. Here's one interpretation- http://rapgod.wordpress.com/2013/10/08/master-keys-to-reading-the-bible-with-monolatrist-understanding-how-the-hebrew-bible-is-not-monotheistic-part-1/ |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 8:40:04 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think something just burst in my brain pan... Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think something just burst in my brain pan... 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 8:54:57 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes - "somehow" In other words, it's astonishing, crazy, utterly ridiculous that people still subscribe to these man-made inventions - this idea of a fluffy white cloud heaven, a fiery torturous hell, and a supernatural sky "God" that watches everything we do - who judges the living and the dead. Mankind created all of this. The bible should be treated for what it is - a work of literature - nothing more. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Bible is the word of God; there are no "ideas" in it. The Bible is a collection of fairy tales written down by human beings. "God" is a man-made idea - an attempt by our ancestors to interpret the world we live in and to make sense of that which was not understood (especially back then, when people didn't know jack shit about our universe - certainly nowhere near what we know now). The story of the Bible is a collection of "ideas" written down by living beings - there is absolutely nothing divine about it. The idea that the Bible is "the word of God" is the biggest BS story in the history of mankind that has somehow managed to survive for centuries... "somehow"? I don't believe so. Yes - "somehow" In other words, it's astonishing, crazy, utterly ridiculous that people still subscribe to these man-made inventions - this idea of a fluffy white cloud heaven, a fiery torturous hell, and a supernatural sky "God" that watches everything we do - who judges the living and the dead. Mankind created all of this. The bible should be treated for what it is - a work of literature - nothing more. Well.. Huhh 
I have a set of encyclopedias I'd like to sell. 100$ or best offer,Any takers? Don't need 'em anymore this guy knows f*king everything! |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 9:08:22 AM EDT
[#10]
The idea of god as presented in the jewish torah.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 9:16:35 AM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 7/22/2014 9:25:05 AM EDT
[#12]
Adam was old enough to have known Noah IIRC.
If God is who He says He is......He is more than capable of making Himself known. It got a little sideways and His Son comes along to set things straight. "He who has seen Me has seen the Father". John 14:9 |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 9:33:30 AM EDT
[#13]
Is it inevitable? ...To reduce discussion to "Because:GOD and Because:NO GOD"
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Posted: 7/22/2014 9:37:19 AM EDT
[#14]
In the Old Testament? From the prophets.
In the New Testament? From Jesus. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 9:40:54 AM EDT
[#15]
Ignorance. Humans didn't understand how anything worked. As our understanding of the natural world has improved the scope of the supernatural has diminished.
Old testament has been covered pretty well, when the Hebrew war-god Yahweh was elevated to the top of the henotheistic pyramid he reflected what the creator of an earth-centric universe created for the benefit of bronze-age peoples living brutal lives could be expected to be. New testament is essentially the euhemorization of the celestial Messiah of Paul and Philo. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 9:58:58 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Jews were not originally monotheist, but monolatrists. They didn't deny that more gods existed, but only one was theirs, and he was the best one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
it was only by the Hellenic period that most Jews came to believe that their god was the only god, The Jews were not originally monotheist, but monolatrists. They didn't deny that more gods existed, but only one was theirs, and he was the best one. That and way back then most folks considered deities to be regional. I.e. you could worship one deity as your supreme being, but travel to another land, where they worshiped another deity or many deities, and their gods held sway there...not the one of the land you left. It wasn't uncommon at all to migrate with the understanding that your god was not god in this new land...he/she was god back home. People's understanding of religion and the world was vastly different than ours today. Religion as we know it today didn't really start to appear until religion shifted towards being a deeply spiritual thing, whereas prior to that spiritualism wasn't really all that popular. Throughout ancient Rome many religions other than the Roman religion were respected and treated as acceptable, but these new religions espousing spiritualism were the ones that they found distasteful and abhorrent. The gods were meant to be obeyed, as they kind of kept order and were just the defacto bosses of shit. You worshipped to appease them and not get on their bad side, but you did NOT have a deep spiritual connection with them. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 10:38:23 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't you think dropping a few miracles during the internet age would have gone a long way towards solving the whole, "Which one is true?" dilemma? And I bet Moses would have loved a GPS. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What would that matter? You and I have access to the Bible, right? As the most published and most widely distributed book of all time, I'd say that God did just fine in making sure that His writings were accessible to as many people as possible over the last few thousand years. Don't you think dropping a few miracles during the internet age would have gone a long way towards solving the whole, "Which one is true?" dilemma? And I bet Moses would have loved a GPS. Doesn't much matter what you or I think. At this point, it's a matter of faith. God did what He had planned to do in His own time. As to the miracles you ask for as evidence: 1 Corinthians 1:20-25
Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. I have faith, you do not. We won't agree. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 10:41:59 AM EDT
[#18]
Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Egyptian theology, Greek philosophy, and Roman law.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 10:48:51 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Egyptian theology, Greek philosophy, and Roman law. I would agree that the Christian Bible does indeed, in a way, get its idea of God from Judaism. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 11:00:08 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes - "somehow" In other words, it's astonishing, crazy, utterly ridiculous that people still subscribe to these man-made inventions - this idea of a fluffy white cloud heaven, a fiery torturous hell, and a supernatural sky "God" that watches everything we do - who judges the living and the dead. Mankind created all of this. The bible should be treated for what it is - a work of literature - nothing more. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Bible is the word of God; there are no "ideas" in it. The Bible is a collection of fairy tales written down by human beings. "God" is a man-made idea - an attempt by our ancestors to interpret the world we live in and to make sense of that which was not understood (especially back then, when people didn't know jack shit about our universe - certainly nowhere near what we know now). The story of the Bible is a collection of "ideas" written down by living beings - there is absolutely nothing divine about it. The idea that the Bible is "the word of God" is the biggest BS story in the history of mankind that has somehow managed to survive for centuries... "somehow"? I don't believe so. Yes - "somehow" In other words, it's astonishing, crazy, utterly ridiculous that people still subscribe to these man-made inventions - this idea of a fluffy white cloud heaven, a fiery torturous hell, and a supernatural sky "God" that watches everything we do - who judges the living and the dead. Mankind created all of this. The bible should be treated for what it is - a work of literature - nothing more. Bible I read never describes a heaven with fluffy clouds and angels, or a "hell" with fire and pitchforks. Figures of speech written in the east tend to not make sense in our culture until you sit down and actually try to understand them through the eyes of the folks that actually wrote them. But that's cool, sweep anybody who goes to any kind of church all together. I don't run around throwing bibles at people, why do so many atheists throw their "not bible" at people? |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 11:06:22 AM EDT
[#21]
You're all invited to my church
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Posted: 7/22/2014 11:10:45 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are active Zoroastrian communities today with documented continuity to the distant past. Not Celtic Druidism. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Zoroastrianism. Try finding some actual hard info to support that assertion. You won't. There is as much hard info about Zoroastrainism as there is about Celtic Druidism, namely virtually none. A couple of inscriptions and references from a few Greek historians, that's it for both. And from these crumbs people constantly claim that Christianity is completely discredited. Not buying it. There are active Zoroastrian communities today with documented continuity to the distant past. Not Celtic Druidism. They are practicing a recreation of what they "think" Zoroastrianism was when it actually existed. Just like the innumerable modern Celtic Druid sects that exist today. The Druids have a big festival at Stonehenge every year, you can't miss it. 
Neither has any real connection to those religions as they existed eons ago, before they completely died out. Again, no hard evidence exists of what either of those religions taught. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 11:11:15 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would agree that the Christian Bible does indeed, in a way, get its idea of God from Judaism. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Egyptian theology, Greek philosophy, and Roman law. I would agree that the Christian Bible does indeed, in a way, get its idea of God from Judaism. Modern Judaism is a continuation of the Old Testament by those that did not believe Jesus was the Messiah who was referred to and promised throughout the whole Old Testament. So I'm not sure it's correct to just say Christianity got its ideas from Judaism, in a sense that until the New Testament they were one in the same. Then again, most Christians can't agree on things like the Trinity, what Holy Spirit actually is, what happens when you die, or even what the whole point of the bible was. And what happens if you don't agree with what the Catholic, Baptist, Church of Christ, or other mainstream denominations teach? They call you a cult. THAT kind of stuff is man-made, and in no way reflects anything about what Jesus Christ taught, nor does it reflect what God laid out through the spoken and written Word. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 11:20:49 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Modern Judaism is a continuation of the Old Testament by those that did not believe Jesus was the Messiah who was referred to and promised throughout the whole Old Testament. So I'm not sure it's correct to just say Christianity got its ideas from Judaism, in a sense that until the New Testament they were one in the same. Then again, most Christians can't agree on things like the Trinity, what Holy Spirit actually is, what happens when you die, or even what the whole point of the bible was. And what happens if you don't agree with what the Catholic, Baptist, Church of Christ, or other mainstream denominations teach? They call you a cult. THAT kind of stuff is man-made, and in no way reflects anything about what Jesus Christ taught, nor does it reflect what God laid out through the spoken and written Word. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Egyptian theology, Greek philosophy, and Roman law. I would agree that the Christian Bible does indeed, in a way, get its idea of God from Judaism. Modern Judaism is a continuation of the Old Testament by those that did not believe Jesus was the Messiah who was referred to and promised throughout the whole Old Testament. So I'm not sure it's correct to just say Christianity got its ideas from Judaism, in a sense that until the New Testament they were one in the same. Then again, most Christians can't agree on things like the Trinity, what Holy Spirit actually is, what happens when you die, or even what the whole point of the bible was. And what happens if you don't agree with what the Catholic, Baptist, Church of Christ, or other mainstream denominations teach? They call you a cult. THAT kind of stuff is man-made, and in no way reflects anything about what Jesus Christ taught, nor does it reflect what God laid out through the spoken and written Word. I think that is a fair point. Perhaps instead of Judaism I should have said the Ancient Hebrew Religion since some scholars would consider the Ancient Hebrew Religion to be fairly distinct from modern Judaism. I even had a religion professor in college who thought it was better to characterize Christianity and Judaism as two branches of the Ancient Hebrew Religion, in much the same way that Catholicism and Orthodoxy are two branches of the Roman church. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 11:35:12 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think that is a fair point. Perhaps instead of Judaism I should have said the Ancient Hebrew Religion since some scholars would consider the Ancient Hebrew Religion to be fairly distinct from modern Judaism. I even had a religion professor in college who thought it was better to characterize Christianity and Judaism as two branches of the Ancient Hebrew Religion, in much the same way that Catholicism and Orthodoxy are two branches of the Roman church. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Egyptian theology, Greek philosophy, and Roman law. I would agree that the Christian Bible does indeed, in a way, get its idea of God from Judaism. Modern Judaism is a continuation of the Old Testament by those that did not believe Jesus was the Messiah who was referred to and promised throughout the whole Old Testament. So I'm not sure it's correct to just say Christianity got its ideas from Judaism, in a sense that until the New Testament they were one in the same. Then again, most Christians can't agree on things like the Trinity, what Holy Spirit actually is, what happens when you die, or even what the whole point of the bible was. And what happens if you don't agree with what the Catholic, Baptist, Church of Christ, or other mainstream denominations teach? They call you a cult. THAT kind of stuff is man-made, and in no way reflects anything about what Jesus Christ taught, nor does it reflect what God laid out through the spoken and written Word. I think that is a fair point. Perhaps instead of Judaism I should have said the Ancient Hebrew Religion since some scholars would consider the Ancient Hebrew Religion to be fairly distinct from modern Judaism. I even had a religion professor in college who thought it was better to characterize Christianity and Judaism as two branches of the Ancient Hebrew Religion, in much the same way that Catholicism and Orthodoxy are two branches of the Roman church. Sounds about right. From what I understand, the groups referred to as the Pharicees in the New Testament, to include Saul before he became Paul, built what we now know as Judaism. They were a hardcore, zealous group who violently opposed the Christian following. What I refer to as "mainstream" Christianity doesn't really seem to follow much of the original intent, which focused on love, forgiveness, etc. Nowadays churches come across as hostile, telling people they will burn in hell if they don't repent every Sunday, that you should be hostile towards non-believers, homosexuals, etc. No wonder so many people are pushed away from religion. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 11:40:41 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're all invited to my church Would I be free to continue worshiping the old ones and their dark lord? |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 11:41:11 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They are practicing a recreation of what they "think" Zoroastrianism was when it actually existed. Just like the innumerable modern Celtic Druid sects that exist today. The Druids have a big festival at Stonehenge every year, you can't miss it. http://wildhunt.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/druidsatstonehenge.jpg Neither has any real connection to those religions as they existed eons ago, before they completely died out. Again, no hard evidence exists of what either of those religions taught. Druids are part of the KKK? 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 12:03:51 PM EDT
[#28]
There is an active community of Zoroastrians in India with direct roots to Persia centuries ago.. I've got two books about Zoroastrianism in front of me.
Information about this is easy to come by. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 12:19:13 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bible I read never describes a heaven with fluffy clouds and angels, or a "hell" with fire and pitchforks. Figures of speech written in the east tend to not make sense in our culture until you sit down and actually try to understand them through the eyes of the folks that actually wrote them. But that's cool, sweep anybody who goes to any kind of church all together. I don't run around throwing bibles at people, why do so many atheists throw their "not bible" at people? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Bible is the word of God; there are no "ideas" in it. The Bible is a collection of fairy tales written down by human beings. "God" is a man-made idea - an attempt by our ancestors to interpret the world we live in and to make sense of that which was not understood (especially back then, when people didn't know jack shit about our universe - certainly nowhere near what we know now). The story of the Bible is a collection of "ideas" written down by living beings - there is absolutely nothing divine about it. The idea that the Bible is "the word of God" is the biggest BS story in the history of mankind that has somehow managed to survive for centuries... "somehow"? I don't believe so. Yes - "somehow" In other words, it's astonishing, crazy, utterly ridiculous that people still subscribe to these man-made inventions - this idea of a fluffy white cloud heaven, a fiery torturous hell, and a supernatural sky "God" that watches everything we do - who judges the living and the dead. Mankind created all of this. The bible should be treated for what it is - a work of literature - nothing more. Bible I read never describes a heaven with fluffy clouds and angels, or a "hell" with fire and pitchforks. Figures of speech written in the east tend to not make sense in our culture until you sit down and actually try to understand them through the eyes of the folks that actually wrote them. But that's cool, sweep anybody who goes to any kind of church all together. I don't run around throwing bibles at people, why do so many atheists throw their "not bible" at people? I'm not suggesting that you do and I believe you that you don't, but there are MANY who do. Atheists are the way they are because at some point in their life they were either harassed or socially rejected by Christians who consider them inferior simply because they do not believe in God. It's not like Atheists all woke up one day and decided to be militant assholes about their thoughts on God for no reason whatsoever. For the longest time I kept my mouth shut about my thoughts on the existence of God. What changed was my four years at college - I met so many different people from all walks of life - some religious, some not. On a number of different occasions people would ask me about my thoughts on God. When I told them I don't believe in it at all, they would react like I was some kind of loon - in their hearts, not a good person. So if any Atheists are "throwing" things into Christian's faces, it's typically because they themselves were bitched at first for what they believe in. Trust me, if anyone is guilty of throwing things at people, it's religious people. I'm not saying there aren't Atheists who are militant about it for no reason other than to piss religious people off, but by and large many of them that express their opinions do so because at one point in their life they were hassled or ridiculed for their non-belief in God. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 12:36:24 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Try finding some actual hard info to support that assertion. You won't. There is as much hard info about Zoroastrianism as there is about Celtic Druidism, namely virtually none. A couple of inscriptions and references from a few Greek historians, that's it for both. And from these crumbs people constantly claim that Christianity is completely discredited. Not buying it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Zoroastrianism. Try finding some actual hard info to support that assertion. You won't. There is as much hard info about Zoroastrianism as there is about Celtic Druidism, namely virtually none. A couple of inscriptions and references from a few Greek historians, that's it for both. And from these crumbs people constantly claim that Christianity is completely discredited. Not buying it. One of my ex-coworkers is Zoroastrian and attends a temple in Dallas. He's of Iranian descent and can trace his families involvement back to before the Muslim Conquests that drove his people out of Iran. Hardly the same thing as Celtic Druidism, which was stamped out by Christianity. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 12:47:14 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What would that matter? You and I have access to the Bible, right? As the most published and most widely distributed book of all time, I'd say that God did just fine in making sure that His writings were accessible to as many people as possible over the last few thousand years. WHOSE writings? I don't recall God writing anything to tablet or papyrus; He had some hack ghost writers, over a span of a few thousand years, who couldn't agree on what "His" word was until the First Council of Nicaea, and then King James mucked it up even worse with that "translation" loosely based on the original texts. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 12:49:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are practicing a recreation of what they "think" Zoroastrianism was when it actually existed. false, there have been Zoroastrians since the 6th century B.C. Unlike the Celtic druids, they were never stamped out. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 12:51:16 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not suggesting that you do and I believe you that you don't, but there are MANY who do. Atheists are the way they are because at some point in their life they were either harassed or socially rejected by Christians who consider them inferior simply because they do not believe in God. It's not like Atheists all woke up one day and decided to be militant assholes about their thoughts on God for no reason whatsoever. For the longest time I kept my mouth shut about my thoughts on the existence of God. What changed was my four years at college - I met so many different people from all walks of life - some religious, some not. On a number of different occasions people would ask me about my thoughts on God. When I told them I don't believe in it at all, they would react like I was some kind of loon - in their hearts, not a good person. So if any Atheists are "throwing" things into Christian's faces, it's typically because they themselves were bitched at first for what they believe in. Trust me, if anyone is guilty of throwing things at people, it's religious people. I'm not saying there aren't Atheists who are militant about it for no reason other than to piss religious people off, but by and large many of them that express their opinions do so because at one point in their life they were hassled or ridiculed for their non-belief in God. 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 12:51:27 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Revealed by, you guessed it.......................God. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 12:51:38 PM EDT
[#35]
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The Jews were not originally monotheist, but monolatrists. They didn't deny that more gods existed, but only one was theirs, and he was the best one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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it was only by the Hellenic period that most Jews came to believe that their god was the only god, The Jews were not originally monotheist, but monolatrists. They didn't deny that more gods existed, but only one was theirs, and he was the best one. I suppose that depends on your translation or belief in the definition of their "denial". The cornerstone tenet of their faith is the "Shema", "Sh'ma Yisrael; Adonai Eloheynu, Adonai Echad", or "Hear O Israel; YHWH our God, YHWH is One.", or as the rabbi teach it, there is ONLY one God, and YHWH is that One. It is, I suppose, debatable on if they really believe there were other gods and that theirs was best, or just that theirs was the Real Deal and the rest false imposters. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 12:53:05 PM EDT
[#36]
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It's not like Atheists all woke up one day and decided to be militant assholes about their thoughts on God for no reason whatsoever. For the longest time I kept my mouth shut about my thoughts on the existence of God. What changed was my four years at college - I met so many different people from all walks of life - some religious, some not. On a number of different occasions people would ask me about my thoughts on God. When I told them I don't believe in it at all, they would react like I was some kind of loon - in their hearts, not a good person. So if any Atheists are "throwing" things into Christian's faces, it's typically because they themselves were bitched at first for what they believe in. Trust me, if anyone is guilty of throwing things at people, it's religious people. I'm not saying there aren't Atheists who are militant about it for no reason other than to piss religious people off, but by and large many of them that express their opinions do so because at one point in their life they were hassled or ridiculed for their non-belief in God. And sadly many turn into the very thing they hated about religion: condescention, hate, and generalizations. Like I said, I'm used to getting enough flak from even other Christians for being non-denominational. I wasn't kidding when I said we were literally labeled a cult because we don't believe in the Trinity, that when you die you are dead (not floating in heaven), there is no "Hell", that anyone can learn and teach the Word, that salvation isn't by good works etc., and are a legitimately non-profit organization (repeatedly audited by the IRS over allegations, which were patently proven false). Gee, we're singled out on Wikipedia as the example of a Christian organization that was on "Christian anti-cult watchlists", yet when you look up "Christian anti-cult watchlist" or whatever it basically reads that they pursued any group that was "heretical" to the mainstream denominations. People hired cult deprogrammers to brainwash their offspring to go back to their family churches, because they couldn't change their mind. That's the "in house" criticism I already get to deal with. That's why it saddens me to get lumped together with all the other "fairy tale" before I can even introdouche myself. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 12:58:36 PM EDT
[#37]
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I would agree that the Christian Bible does indeed, in a way, get its idea of God from Judaism. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Judaism, Zoroastrianism, Egyptian theology, Greek philosophy, and Roman law. I would agree that the Christian Bible does indeed, in a way, get its idea of God from Judaism. IN A WAY...?! PLEASE tell me that was intentional understatement... EDIT: Ok, made it to the follow up posts...doesn't sound so far off now. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 1:01:22 PM EDT
[#38]
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...... before I can even introdouche myself. Freud must have snorted. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 1:03:01 PM EDT
[#39]
I'd say peyote, but I don't believe it's native to Africa.
Maybe licking frogs? 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 1:03:39 PM EDT
[#40]
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Freud must have snorted. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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...... before I can even introdouche myself. Freud must have snorted. Was trying to lighten the mood of the post a bit. I do my best to not be a douchey person, though I have been known to get a little carried away when I win a game of darts or dominoes... |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 1:07:16 PM EDT
[#41]
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No, I've heard it proposed here that the God of Israel (and thus the Christian God) was co-opted from other, older Levantine cultures. It seems like this proposal was based around the common name "El", which could be used as a god generically or as the patriarch of the Canaanite pantheon and as the name of a god in a bunch of other cultures. This view seems to come up in various religious threads, but never in a thread dedicated to discussing that. Thus, my weak search fu does not allow me to find this idea among the bazillions of religious thread topics in GD's sordid past. I ask the question because I want to hear and understand this idea. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I don't think you accurately worded your question to voice the question you were thinking. You answered your question in the thread title. The idea for the Christian God was outlined in the Old and New Testaments, originating from God Himself. Or if you don't believe in Christianity, it originated from the authors of the several books. Were you instead asking where monotheism originated? No, I've heard it proposed here that the God of Israel (and thus the Christian God) was co-opted from other, older Levantine cultures. It seems like this proposal was based around the common name "El", which could be used as a god generically or as the patriarch of the Canaanite pantheon and as the name of a god in a bunch of other cultures. This view seems to come up in various religious threads, but never in a thread dedicated to discussing that. Thus, my weak search fu does not allow me to find this idea among the bazillions of religious thread topics in GD's sordid past. I ask the question because I want to hear and understand this idea. And you asked this question in GD instead of the religion forum, right... 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 1:09:32 PM EDT
[#42]
from God.
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Posted: 7/22/2014 1:18:14 PM EDT
[#43]
So to take part in this debate, must we concede that the Christian bible is the literal truth and a historically accurate document?
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Posted: 7/22/2014 1:22:49 PM EDT
[#44]
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So to take part in this debate, must we concede that the Christian bible is the literal truth and a historically accurate document? That depends...if you're a literalist inerrantist, then yes; if not, then you can't. The reason why is that one party will reject any position opposing them because since the Bible is the inerrant and absolute truth Word of God, then you MUST be wrong....any debate is moot at that point. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 1:24:01 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Freud must have snorted. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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...... before I can even introdouche myself. Freud must have snorted. 
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Posted: 7/22/2014 1:26:18 PM EDT
[#46]
Known Jewish history dates back for sure prior to 1,000 BCE which is the time of the Jewish kings,
so the religion itself certainly pre-dates that by a good bit. So we are talking possibly as far back as 2,000 BCE. Timeline of Judaism Zoroastrianism by most sources I can find dates back to around 600 BCE. Zoroastrianism - Religion Facts So other sources say they think it might date to 6000 BCE. I haven't seen any hard facts to establish that, but I haven't really looked either. Supposedly some scholars think it is more like 1,000 to 1,500 BCE. http://www.religioustolerance.org/zoroastr1.htm Either way I think the time of the Jewish kings is well established historically at 1,000 BCE so I'd be interested in hearing the theory of why Zoroastrianism is the older monotheistic religion. Not that I think it is terribly important, just interesting. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 1:27:41 PM EDT
[#47]
Previous religions...
the belief in a supreme being wasn't exactly new at the time. More than one story was just re-written stuff from other cultures IE: Noah and the ark is a reboot of The epic of gilgamesh |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 1:37:48 PM EDT
[#48]
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....snip.... That's why it saddens me to get lumped together with all the other "fairy tale" before I can even introdouche myself.
At any rate, all religions are an exercise in self- or mass-delusion, doesn't much matter what the flavor of the belief system is. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 1:44:06 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Known Jewish history dates back for sure prior to 1,000 BCE which is the time of the Jewish kings, so the religion itself certainly pre-dates that by a good bit. So we are talking possibly as far back as 2,000 BCE. Timeline of Judaism Zoroastrianism by most sources I can find dates back to around 600 BCE. Zoroastrianism - Religion Facts So other sources say they think it might date to 6000 BCE. I haven't seen any hard facts to establish that, but I haven't really looked either. Supposedly some scholars think it is more like 1,000 to 1,500 BCE. http://www.religioustolerance.org/zoroastr1.htm Either way I think the time of the Jewish kings is well established historically at 1,000 BCE so I'd be interested in hearing the theory of why Zoroastrianism is the older monotheistic religion. Not that I think it is terribly important, just interesting. There are other religions that were around before and during when the Old Testament ocurred. There were all kinds of mono- and polytheistic religions that were sometimes localized to one city or region. I mean the Egyptians were around at the same time, though each has its own narrative on creation and whenever that ocurred, so you could endlessly go back and forth about whose came first. The thing about the Bible is that there are literal events and figures of speach all woven together, and again it was first passed verbally and eventually written in a completely different culture. When describing that it was as difficult for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God as for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, it wasn't talking about a literal needle as we now use for sewing, but instead a small gate in the city that could be entered after dark but would require the camel to crawl on its knees to enter. Not impossible, but certainly difficult. Ultimately, a core element of it all is that this is all about free will choice. Forcing someone to be Christian or adhere to "Christian values" is in itself against what the Bible teaches. If someone says "no thanks" to what I have to say, it doesn't russle my jimmies, it's their choice. |
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Posted: 7/22/2014 1:49:32 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So to take part in this debate, must we concede that the Christian bible is the literal truth and a historically accurate document? Only the parts that are supposed to be taken literally, not the parts that are supposed to be taken figuratively. Trouble is, which parts are which vary from believer to believer, and what is taken literally has decreased while what is to be taken figuratively has increased over the years. |
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