I'll Form 1 a fucking potato.

I may look for a tube gun parts kit just in case any of this pans out in the future.
Worst case scenario I'll build it into a lamp.

My new sig line...

I still don't think Ca would let us Form 1 a potato.

I know.. WA is no-go for MGs too..

Fuck California

Since the ATF said a shoe lace could be a MG, I'd go ahead and form 1 a shoe lace.

If a Springfield rifle can be converted to a semi-auto, by just swapping the bolt with a magazine fed action...

I think it was called the Peterson device.


ETA:  My memory was off.  It was the Pedersen device, developed in WW1 for use with the 1903 Springfield.

You have two acronyms in your post .......
SCOTUS
USSC

Care to elaborate on who/what each one is?   I suspect they are both the same organization ......

SCOTUS  - Suprem Court Of The United States
USSC - United States Supreme Court

The way you have it written is someone appealed a United States Supreme Court (USSC) decision to the Supreme Court Of The United States and the Supreme Court Of The United States let the United State Supreme Court ruling stand.

Hmmmmmm.....don't think it works that way.

If I am wrong, correct me.

Thanks



If an appeal makes it to the Supreme Court - it is my understanding that if they refuse to hear/take the case that would amount to them ruling on it, saying the lower courts decision is valid and stands.

.

YES!

I'd form 1 my cock... more thrusts per squeeze. Legal full auto orgasm generator.

With how ridiculous the law is, someone should have tried years ago to Form 1 their trigger finger.

Fucking awesome man. I'd definitely be interested in seeing your PDF once you're done.

Just don't  

.003 engraving depth

Sign me up. I'll deal with the scar. (I'm dammed glad I went with a short trust name)

How can I search the NFRTR I live in illinois the state law says no person shall possess a machine gun BUT a trust is not a person I just want to see if there are any registered to a trust in IL before 86 or after it doesn't matter.

edit by the way i have a pending form 1 in the system on a trust

Is your thread still over at Grog's?

You can't.

Fun fact, the NFRTR is well known to be incomplete, inaccurate, and has massive discrepancies.

Variance for a tattoo

It would be interesting....

"Nope, that M240 is not a machine gun. It is just a part. This finger, now that's a machine gun!"

Well look who is running it?      

Just saw this thread.

Yep.  I'm just doing the final photographs and need to sit down and write build instructions.  It will be more of a pamphlet than anything.  Then, I'll keep pestering my wife to see if I can get a stamp for a modular landmine, or maybe put up a kickstarter project.  I have such a great idea for that one.

wingnut116 is a cool motherfucker

link to thread

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_21/407785_.html









now back on topic





 

I should have read the whole thread before replying







 

Have you read the applicable RCW???



Except as otherwise provided in this section, it is unlawful for any person....




 

So with this new definition of Trusts MGs are a go?

It just occurred to me that NFAmachinegunner might actually be ATF, but not at HQ.  Can you imagine a field agent reading this thread and wondering "WTF are those morons at HQ thinking?  And I'll have to deal with this mess here in the field based on instructions from morons who can't get this right and be consistent with their rulings????""

It might have some agents in a position to throw up their hands and pull a Sgt Schultz on every full auto gun they run across.  "A rattle gun?  I SEE NOTHING!  NOTHING!!!"  And then they'll ask can they get some trigger time on it to relieve their freedom boner.

That is not correct.  The Supreme Court only hears a fraction of the cases that they are petitioned to hear - something along the lines of 1% of the cases that are appealed to SCOTUS.  When SCOTUS decides not to accept an appeal, they are not ruling on it... they are simply refusing to hear the appeal, and letting the lower court decision stand.

Why not try 0.0?

Your screen name is inappropriate for this post.

You're no Devil Dog.
You're a frightened puppy cowering under the rocker, afraid to leave the porch.

Signed,

A former infantry Marine.

Sorry I've been out of the loop for about 18 hours.

Update to the OP:






ETA: 9/11/14


The audio of the ATF call on page 18 (thanks Jaqufrost):







ETA: 9/12/14



FAQ - - for the tl;dr crowd
(Started by Undefined, edited by Orpheus762x51)


What’s happening?

1. ATF ruled that a trust is not a person as defined by 18 U.S. Code § 921(a) and the Gun Control Act (GCA).
2. Since ATF holds that an unincorporated trust is not a “person” under the GCA, the prohibition on the transfer or possession of machineguns as defined by 18 U.S. Code § 921(a)(1) and 18 U.S. Code § 922(o) cannot apply to unincorporated trusts.
3. Numerous (See Footnote #1) trustees submitted Form 1 applications to build new machine guns.
4. ATF approved the applications and sent out stamps (See Footnote #2).
5. On or around 9/10/14, ATF began calling trustees that received stamps demanding that they be returned, or in the case of eForms, updating their online status from Approved to Disapproved. Those that were called were told they had to return the stamp. (See Footnote #3 for audio of one such call)
6. Attorneys are working on it now...

Footnotes:
1. Current estimates put the number of trusts that applied somewhere in the low hundreds. Unfortunately, there is no 100% accurate count that is publicly available.
2. Some stamps were received as early as the first week of August 2014. Others have not been received yet.
3. Jaqufrost's call from the ATF:


























Does this mean if I have a trust I can get Form 1s approved to build machine guns?

No. BATFE is no longer sending out approvals. Your application will be rejected.


Should I submit a Form 1 through a trust right now?

Yes.  As of right now, the ATF is aware of what is going on with these Form 1s.  Your submission will likely be rejected, however it would add you to a class of trustees who have standing against the ATF in the event of future legal action.  Even though your Form 1 application will likely be denied, it would be helpful to submit a Form 1.


What should I do if I was one of the trustees that submitted a Form 1 and received approval?

Presto97sl summed it up pretty well (see below). I would add that you should contact NoloContendere via IM and at [email protected] as he is a rally point right now for coordinating and tracking efforts on this issue.
Here is what Nolo wants, in this particular order:
1) if you received an approval and subsequent to that approval manufactured And then had a disapproval.
2) if you received an approval and then were denied.
3) if you filed a form 1 and were denied.




What can the rest of us do to help?

1. Keep the thread bumped.
2. Submit a Form 1 to manufacture a machine gun through a trust.
3. Stand by.

Where can I send donations?

Nowhere, yet! There will be a time and place for that, but no one wants to start collecting money until we know how and where it will be spent. Plaintiffs are discussing options with attorneys right now. Attorneys are working on a plan right now. As soon as funding is needed, it will be requested (after getting Strykers approval). Until then, be patient.

So the OP has an approved Form 1 and a machine gun?

No.  Orpheus762x51 started this thread and is keeping Arfcom updated on the situation.  Jaqufrost did receive an approval on his Form 1, then the ATF subsequently demanded that it be returned.  Undefined, NoloContendere, I_am_Dan, and a few others in this thread are just plain awesome.

How do I Submit a Form 1?

For paper Forms:   Complete Guide of how to complete a Form 1

For eForms:   Visual guide: How to fill out a Form 1 using EFORMS





ETA:  9/13/14


The die has been cast on Page 36.





So there you have it, ladies and gentlemen.  
One of the first machine guns produced in civilian hands in nearly thirty years...
With ATF approval.



Yes.  You heard right.


A machine gun.  


Manufactured after 1986.


With ATF Form 1 approval.  



Is in the WILD!!!





Also, this issue has been making it's way around the internet in the form of several articles in just a couple days:

The Firearm Blog: ATF Approves Post-86 Machine Gun Form 1

The Firearm Blog: BATFE Phone Call Asking For Return of Approved Trust Form 1

The Truth About Guns: ATF Just Approved the First New Civilian Machine Gun in 28 Years. By Accident.

NFA Gun Trust Lawyer Blog: ATF Approves some Form 1 to Make Machine Guns by a Gun Trust and then Rescinds the Approval

Prince Law Offices, P. C. : Did ATF Approve Your Making of a New Machinegun and Then Rescind It? Contact Us To Discuss

 

I'm glad someone said this.  I typed and deleted a half dozen posts when i saw the screen name and post.  Then i decided i couldn't frame a decent reply and gave up.

did the guy in the vid return the stamp and do what they ask him to do?

This

 

Guys, once again a huge round of thanks. You are all awesome, except the plants and speculators, and negative nancies, they can go get a cactus.


Seriously though; Jaqu, orph, NOLO, Undefined, RealPAGunner, flying gorilla, HardRock, and the rest of you who's names I forgot, cause imma scumbag, you guys are great.

Looks like I need to do another round d of clearing my IMs.  But keep the IMs, texts, calls, and emails coming.  

These are exciting times. And we are making history right now.

Yeah.  You need to check yourself, Marine.  You raised your right hand and said the words.  You're contract may expire, but your oath to support and defend the Constitution doesn't.  I'm sure you were filled with piss and vinegar at one time, but this post shows you've lost it.

Dig deep and find your fight again.

-Former Tracker
1833
YAT YAS

Back at you man.

And like I've alluded to before, I am happy with were this is headed... if for no other reason than to remind them WHO THEY WORK FOR.

This is likely going to be an effort that stretches out over years, but here we are, taking the first steps.

Real exciting and motivating shit right there.

I

Could just as easily be The Nuge back from the future to ensure Obama gives us cheap MGs

You will F1 a phone???

We definitely need to hang out next time you are near my AO



And undefined and I are talking about a meet and greet next summer for NRA@nashvile

I'm so up for backing this up with a minute $$ donation (I can't afford much), but as far as gun rights groups go, did anyone consider getting JPFO behind this?

I have had some very unofficial conversations with members of one of the larger gun rights groups, but right now we need to prepare to do things on our own. Hopefully we can get some support, but before we can really look at that we need to figure out what help we do and don't want, and what path our legal brain trust want to follow.

Fortunitly there have been several legal professionals from arfcom who have stepped up and hopefully more will come out of the woodwork.