Best use of that gif ever.

I read NOLOs post and got a Freedom Boner, yet have no use or desire for full auto, much less the means to feed it. Ill chip $100 anyway when this gets legs.

Agreed

Nolo,

For those that contact you, as a member of one of the defined groups, does that communication enjoy the benefit of attorney client privilege,  even if they do not pursue further legal action?

I imagine many are deeply concerned about their legal options and are reluctant to step forward in a public forum when the consequences could be grave.

There is hope.  I personally contributed to this campaign when it was going on.  It will take time and a metric-shit-ton of money.  I'm down for $200.




 

We ALL want 922 and the NFA to go away.  But simply blowing sunshine, rainbows, and gumdrops up each other asses about our chances here are not going to make it happen.  A lot of people here don't understand the issues or the law, and have wildly unrealistic views of how this is most likely to play out.  Some of us do know the issues and the law, know our chances aren't good, and are playing devil's advocate in hopes of hearing somethng we haven't thought of yet.  Do we have a chance?  Sure, but I think its more like a Powerball ticket than a flip of a coin.

And where is this going to end up?  In court? The same court system that tells us a government mandate to buy health insurance is a "tax"?  The same courts that largely ignore the mass surveillance of millions of Americans?  The courts that uphold the diminishment of the 4th Amendment's warrant requirement within 100 miles of the border?  That allow the police to seize a citizen's cash under asset forfeiture and make the citizen prove they acquired it legally (at their own expense, of course)?  That allow the government to take your property to give to a private developer and have the gall to call it " public use"?   Those courts?  

You'll have to forgive me if I doubt our chances.  The game is rigged.  Government will get the result government wants.

FWIW, I have quite a few MGs.  I bought them because I enjoy them, like to shoot and because I wanted to keep them.  I didn't buy them as an investment to sell or to make money.  I would LOVE for the NFA and 922 to go down so I could get more, but I don't see it happening, and I don't see much of an argument thats convincing me otherwise.  I hope I'm wrong here, I really do...

You have your retirement tied up in machine guns don't you?

Well said. If anything, machine guns are exactly the type of weapons protected by the 2nd Amendment. Hunting rifles, shotguns, and "sporting" firearms have fuck all to do with the intent, meaning and wording of the 2nd Amendment.

NFA of 1934, GCA '68, 922, Hughes amendment etc etc etc. are all explicitly un-Constitutional. I want my fucking cake back, ALL OF IT

I gotcha a dollar.

oooh you almost had it

you gotta be quicker than that!







 

So, you've never heard of Farmer v. Higgins (90-600)?  The 1987 NRA Firearms Civil Rights Legal Defense Fund -funded law suit in the 11th Circuit?

       a


 

The sentiment applies here:

I don't have time to read 29 pages. Can someone give me the cliffs notes of whats going on with this?

Oh well.... keep us updated.

This will end up the same way as the sputter gun.

ATF ruled Trusts are not people persons
Only people persons are prohibited from making/possessing post 1986 MGs
Multiple Trustees submitted Form 1s for MGs
ATF approved some Form 1s and issued stamps
ATF recinded approval and demanded stamps back
???
Profit...

Did I miss anything?

Edit: people to persons.

The ATF said trusts aren't "persons".


The MG ban prohibits "persons" from possession of an MG.


Since trusts aren't "persons", logic dictates that the MG ban doesn't apply to trusts.


Trusts are now filing Form 1s to manufacture new, post 86 machine guns.  Some got approved,  now BATFE is back peddling.

I was 16 years old in May of 1986 and living in NYC, the son of Irish Immigrants. My dad still wasn't a citizen.
I was old enough to know I was fucked.
I want this bullshit to end.
When Hughes and Rangel die I want to shit on their gravesites.

You did fine.


That phone call blew my mind.

This was news to me!! Holy shit!
Whats next?

at 100k an ounce, 80x+ the cost of gold, you know you live in a fucked up place

That is what Nolo and the other guys/lawyers in the know are working on.

ETA: also, I'm not clear on the order of approve/disapprove for jaqufrost, the guy in this thread with a "approved" form 1

We should get the big and small gun manufactures on board  the Pain Train, which will head for Station BATF as well.
Tens of millions of potential donation money right there. Maybe Nestle could make money off bottled Liberal Tears once this is all over?

I would love to see the Sig 522 Commando come with a  real  suppressor from the manufacture.

Well all I can say is it was a lot easier to submit an eform 1 than I ever would have thought

As mentioned earlier in the thread, assuming a court agrees with our interpretation of 922(o) and the applicable definition of "person", effectively the only way for a trust to gain possession of a post-86 machine gun would be to manufacture it.  Transferring a factory-built machine gun to a trust would still be illegal.  An FFL/SOT must be some legal entity other than a trust, because trusts can't get FFL/SOTs.  Even in our interpretation, a trust is the only non-GCA-defined person, so any GCA-defined person (all FFL/SOTs) would be in violation of 922(o) if they transferred a post-86 machine gun to anyone other than the government or another FFL/SOT.  So in your example, a trust could convert a semi-auto SIG to full-auto, but not have a post-86 factory machine gun.

Life is full of risk.

Privileged communication, but no A/C relationship.

If the conversation was between privileged parties and made with the purpose of securing legal advice. It would be protected in an PM so long as nobody discloses what was said.

I'd gladly buy a case of bottled Liberal Tears, but I wouldn't drink it from fear that it could be contagious. I'm mostly certain they can be used as hi-octane fuel additive in a V-8 though.

Well now that I've read it all, I must say,

There are some fine gentlemen in this thread, on this site, and in our community.
We are really trying to do this the right way, using every resource we have, pledging fortunes, and our precious time
to get back rights we have been denied. It should never have been this way, but we rise to the occasion anyway.
I am proud to be a part of this. When the time comes that I can assist, I will do everything I can.
This is going to take more than luck.
It's going to take more than skill and money.
Its going to take all of this, and "a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence".

I will be following this issue, and this thread, closely.

Best regards,
Matt

So if I submit a new eForm1 for a DD, will it be approved in 24 hours?



Ben

...

 

I'm in for a donation.

+1.  I'm not currently in a position to file for a happy switch but would gladly donate money to the cause.

Is it too late to start up a trust and file a Form 1 for standing(if there is a court case)?

I'm not expecting approval, but I am willing to go through the motions to get standing on the lawsuit that may be coming. If not, i will hold onto my money for legal donations. I have limited funds and don't want to waste it on the trust and form 1 if i am too late to gain standing.

No.  In fact as it has been stated, EVERYONE should be filing.  I filed last night...



 

Worlds best first post.

Can someone post a link to how to make an appropriate trust and what is required?

I would look for a lawyer in your state that advertises gun trusts.  Depending on your state the requirements may vary.  In mine I just had to get it notarized once it was written.

 

Yes.

A thousand times, yes.


When you look at the rights that we are fighting to restore,  and compare it to the "rights" that the left tries to manufacture,  I doubt you will find many who move forward with a reliance on what is right, just, and having the blessing of our creator from which we were given our natural rights.

I am thankful to be in such good company.

The right to bear arms was not granted to us by our government,  it's ours, our birth right, from our creator.   The constitution only guarantees that right and our politicians have done their best to dillude that guarantee over the last century.

The GCA, Hughes, Brady, and the NFA won't be rolled back over night.  Some of it may never get rolled back.  Even if I live to see the demise of Hughes, I doubt I'll live long enough to see the NFA crumble (and I'm in my late 20's).

But every great journey starts with a single step.  It took a century to construct the golem of federal gun laws, and it may take a century or more to roll it back..... but that's what lies at the heart of this fight.

It's not just about Machine Guns, it's about Freedom.  It's about taking back our natural rights and spitting in the eyes of the would-be feudal lords of the federal government.

We have to be the ones to take the first step, so that future Americans may once again enjoy their rights, unhindered by the approval of men in far off capitols.

God speed, gentlemen.  This is going to be a long war, waged over generations.  We have to keep the fire lit, and pass a brighter torch to the next generation than the one we received.

First, Undefined, again I what you have written.

B_A, you are on the right track, but it's even bigger than machine guns.  I humbly ask if you have read Patriot Pirates by Robert H. Patton?

If not, get a copy from Amazon, read it, think about the facts of where a lot of our Navy came from, and pass it on to others to read.

The past day and a half have been simply amazing.

The posts in this thread, the IMs, the texts, and the phone conversations, have me truly excited.

If you had asked me in February of 09 if I thought that we would see the fall of any type of gun bans during Obamas term, I wouldn't have believed you.  

At the beginning of 2014 things looked bleak,  we were dealing from tragedy and political fallout, and for many the sky was falling. But we stood and we fought, and we won.

When bans were actually passed in Colorado, a small group of arfcommers got mad. 2 of those guys are my friends and they weren't political animals, or crusaders, they were regular gun guys with regular jobs and families and obligations and they built a movement that extracted blood.  They dealt a blow that reminded our opposition of the fallout from the AWB.

We have not just weathered this storm, we have claimed victories, we have gained ground. And where we have lost battles, we have made them pay well enough to turn those into Pyrrhic victory's for the left.



I have spoken with guys that have approved stamps in hand,  guys that have approvals and denials.



I have spoken with lawyers, and board members of 2nd ammendment groups, and guys with real political juice, and regular arfcommers that want to see this happen.  The general consensus is that we not only have hope, but we have a serious chance.  



People are watching us right now.  Our  enemies and friends in politics, and at the ATF.  



We are on the heels of several major victories that we never thought would come in our lifetimes.  And before us is an opportunity to fight.  



It doesn't matter that our chances are really good. It doesn't matter that there are groups who are willing to lend a hand.  It doest matter that our movement has been gaining ground and picking up steam.



Because even if there was only a glimmer of hope. Even if our cause was little more than tilting at windmills.  We still have to fight it, because its the right thing to do.  Because freedom is worth dying for. Because the idea of what this nation is supposed to be is so profound that it must be defended at every opportunity.  



We have chosen battles, and we have fought a guerrilla war, and we are winning.  



Look, I'm just an filthy inky, scumbag punk rocker, who has a problem with authority, and a gift for causing trouble.  I'm no one special,  but I believe in this, and I will fight for this.  And I have heard not just the words of hope, but the sound of it in the voices of men that I have spoken with, men that have been fighting this fight for years, men who no better than anyone what our chances are.  



This is our opportunity to effect nationwide change, and to reframe parts of the gun rights debate.  And if we don't take it, then we don't deserve to call ourselves Americans.  This is an important fight, and we need to do it right.  So while we talk, we also need to listen to the legal minds at the helm of this issue. We need to support them, and support those with the balls big enough to actually file for these stamps at issue.  

I won't be happy until I can get a fully armed and operational Abrams through the mail

I submitted a paper form 1 to MG one of my AR lowers back in March when that lawyer with the blog first started talking about the possibility of this.  I've never received it back or heard from the ATF about it, and after just checking my bank statements I see that the ATF cashed the check but hasn't refunded it.



When I get to my layover this afternoon I'll call the ATF and ask for a status.

Keep up the momentum.  Internet is a powerful thing.  I will throw some money at this once it goes hot and fire missioed.  I want to thank the lawyers (yes the lawywers) who are freedom loving and pushing back.  VERY rare individuals.

Email your info to Nolo

I really need to move to the land of the free