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Posted: 9/28/2014 12:01:57 PM EDT
[#1]
Quick question:
Even if these lawsuits win, what stops BATFE from just changing their mind on their ruling and saying "oh, our mistake...trusts actually are people"? Or, after this has been litigated at great expense of time and money, couldn't Congress just change the definitions in 922 to apply to trusts as well? |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 12:08:36 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup. Nelson's was one of Hyman Lebman's 1911 FA conversions, IIRC. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Which was pretty much the favorite underground source for thugs in the 1930s. Anyone remember Baby Face Nelson's Full Auto .38 Super. Yup. Nelson's was one of Hyman Lebman's 1911 FA conversions, IIRC. 
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Posted: 9/28/2014 4:58:15 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quick question: Even if these lawsuits win, what stops BATFE from just changing their mind on their ruling and saying "oh, our mistake...trusts actually are people"? Or, after this has been litigated at great expense of time and money, couldn't Congress just change the definitions in 922 to apply to trusts as well? Anything short of a Heller style ruling and a win in court will require a sustained political effort to maintain. Nothing about attacking Hughes or the NFA comes easy, fast, or cheap. |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 5:25:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
M-16 trigger group parts might get scarce for a while. I could see a short term hiccup in the supply of lowers, but probably not for too long. Other, less modular, full-autos would probably be more of a problem. Plenty of sources for AR stripped lowers, and some more machine work results in a full-auto lower. But what about other firearms? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I read that some forms got approved. I've read that the ATF asked for them back. I've read that there are lawyers willing to take the case for those that were approved and asked to return...what I don't know and don't want to sift through 77 pages to find out is: assuming this ends up working and the ATF says "good to go", what kind of pricing would a buyer be expected to pay for these post '86 machine guns? I'm guessing the $12k+ prices will no longer apply. Ex. A transferable "X" that today costs $12k but a post May dealer sample is well under $1k. Will that happen if this method ends up working? $200 stamp for a $50 stripped lower. Probably something like a panic, where the rush to buy them causes a greater demand than the current supply, causing prices to go up, then come back down as the supply catches up. M-16 trigger group parts might get scarce for a while. I could see a short term hiccup in the supply of lowers, but probably not for too long. Other, less modular, full-autos would probably be more of a problem. Plenty of sources for AR stripped lowers, and some more machine work results in a full-auto lower. But what about other firearms? Sub gun parts kits will skyrocket in popularity 
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Posted: 9/28/2014 5:50:51 PM EDT
[#5]
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Sub gun parts kits will skyrocket in popularity Ummm ... today you can't find a subguns part kit for much under $500, and many are much, much higher. So if this happens, you'll find U.S. manufacturers making brand new parts kits for sale, because the originals are at close (or over) the actual price of production ... if there is enough demand. |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 5:58:28 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ummm ... today you can't find a subguns part kit for much under $500, and many are much, much higher. So if this happens, you'll find U.S. manufacturers making brand new parts kits for sale, because the originals are at close (or over) the actual price of production ... if there is enough demand. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Sub gun parts kits will skyrocket in popularity Ummm ... today you can't find a subguns part kit for much under $500, and many are much, much higher. So if this happens, you'll find U.S. manufacturers making brand new parts kits for sale, because the originals are at close (or over) the actual price of production ... if there is enough demand. Tony is right, but really, what difference does it make? The discussion of parts kit pricing at this juncture is like slaves in the 1830's debating the potential effect on real estate prices and cotton futures if slavery were to be abolished. We've got a long fight ahead long before we secure the right to cry into our beers over the high price of parts kits. |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 6:30:40 PM EDT
[#7]
If MG's become legal again, I'm getting a new FN SCAR HAMR.
  http://www.fnhusa.com/l/products/scar-family/hamr/ What will you guys buy first?
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Posted: 9/28/2014 6:32:27 PM EDT
[#8]
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If MG's become legal again, I'm getting a new FN SCAR HAMR.
http://www.fnhusa.com/files/1913/4300/8265/scar_hamr_large.png [div style='text-align: justify;']http://www.fnhusa.com/l/products/scar-family/hamr/ [div style='text-align: justify;'] [div style='text-align: justify;']What will you guys buy first?
Make Not buy Do you even form 1 bro? You could make an FNC sear |
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Posted: 9/28/2014 8:58:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ummm ... today you can't find a subguns part kit for much under $500, and many are much, much higher. So if this happens, you'll find U.S. manufacturers making brand new parts kits for sale, because the originals are at close (or over) the actual price of production ... if there is enough demand. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Sub gun parts kits will skyrocket in popularity Ummm ... today you can't find a subguns part kit for much under $500, and many are much, much higher. So if this happens, you'll find U.S. manufacturers making brand new parts kits for sale, because the originals are at close (or over) the actual price of production ... if there is enough demand. What's an old Mk III sten kit worth? Just out of idle curiousity. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 12:33:57 AM EDT
[#10]
90$ on apex for a parts kit
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's an old Mk III sten kit worth? Just out of idle curiousity. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Sub gun parts kits will skyrocket in popularity Ummm ... today you can't find a subguns part kit for much under $500, and many are much, much higher. So if this happens, you'll find U.S. manufacturers making brand new parts kits for sale, because the originals are at close (or over) the actual price of production ... if there is enough demand. What's an old Mk III sten kit worth? Just out of idle curiousity. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 1:59:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Monday bump!
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Posted: 9/29/2014 2:03:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Make Not buy Do you even form 1 bro? You could make an FNC sear Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If MG's become legal again, I'm getting a new FN SCAR HAMR.
http://www.fnhusa.com/files/1913/4300/8265/scar_hamr_large.png [div style='text-align: justify;']http://www.fnhusa.com/l/products/scar-family/hamr/ [div style='text-align: justify;'] [div style='text-align: justify;']What will you guys buy first?
Make Not buy Do you even form 1 bro? You could make an FNC sear Back when I was into NFA, I had heard a rumor that there were more FNC sears made than there were FNC's imported 
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Posted: 9/29/2014 2:33:14 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ummm ... today you can't find a subguns part kit for much under $500, and many are much, much higher. So if this happens, you'll find U.S. manufacturers making brand new parts kits for sale, because the originals are at close (or over) the actual price of production ... if there is enough demand. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Sub gun parts kits will skyrocket in popularity Ummm ... today you can't find a subguns part kit for much under $500, and many are much, much higher. So if this happens, you'll find U.S. manufacturers making brand new parts kits for sale, because the originals are at close (or over) the actual price of production ... if there is enough demand. Sterling Uzi PPS 43 All less than $160 
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Tony is right, but really, what difference does it make? The discussion of parts kit pricing at this juncture is like slaves in the 1830's debating the potential effect on real estate prices and cotton futures if slavery were to be abolished. We've got a long fight ahead long before we secure the right to cry into our beers over the high price of parts kits. 
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Posted: 9/29/2014 2:49:00 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If MG's become legal again, I'm getting a new FN SCAR HAMR.
http://www.fnhusa.com/files/1913/4300/8265/scar_hamr_large.png [div style='text-align: justify;']http://www.fnhusa.com/l/products/scar-family/hamr/ [div style='text-align: justify;'] [div style='text-align: justify;']What will you guys buy first?
Might as well talk about what you want to do with your lottery winnings. The chances of this making it are very slim. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 8:05:49 PM EDT
[#15]
What's happening?????? Tell me tales of approved post 86 Form 1 machine guns and how I will legally build one in the future.
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Posted: 9/29/2014 8:06:20 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's happening?????? Stuff.
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Posted: 9/29/2014 8:07:06 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Stuff. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What's happening?????? Stuff. |
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Posted: 9/29/2014 8:08:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn, you're on this thread like non-conformist arfcommers looking to get machine guns with the quickness.
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What's happening?????? Stuff.
This thread is relevant to my interests. 
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Posted: 9/29/2014 9:04:18 PM EDT
[#19]
I think it's relevant to ALL of our interests....
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Posted: 9/29/2014 9:07:34 PM EDT
[#20]
How many people on this thread have sent their Form1 in?
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Posted: 9/29/2014 11:52:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How many people on this thread have sent their Form1 in?  And disapproved in 3 days  |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 7:40:14 AM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 9/30/2014 7:58:27 AM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 9/30/2014 8:55:49 AM EDT
[#24]
I just got my trust from my attorney and I'm impressed at how elaborate it is. She did good work. I'll go get it notarized today (after my coffee) and form 1 something. Rather than move a firearm into the trust I think I'll just form 1 a DIAS since it will be disapproved anyways. What do you guys think?
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Posted: 9/30/2014 9:11:22 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just got my trust from my attorney and I'm impressed at how elaborate it is. She did good work. I'll go get it notarized today (after my coffee) and form 1 something. Rather than move a firearm into the trust I think I'll just form 1 a DIAS since it will be disapproved anyways. What do you guys think? The firearm won't be moved into the trust if it's disapproved unless you wanted to move it there anyway. The only concern I had with a DIAS is getting the dimensions right and how to properly fill out the Form 1 vs a more conventional Form 1 for a firearm, which I've done. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 9:19:36 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The firearm won't be moved into the trust if it's disapproved unless you wanted to move it there anyway. The only concern I had with a DIAS is getting the dimensions right and how to properly fill out the Form 1 vs a more conventional Form 1 for a firearm, which I've done. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I just got my trust from my attorney and I'm impressed at how elaborate it is. She did good work. I'll go get it notarized today (after my coffee) and form 1 something. Rather than move a firearm into the trust I think I'll just form 1 a DIAS since it will be disapproved anyways. What do you guys think? The firearm won't be moved into the trust if it's disapproved unless you wanted to move it there anyway. The only concern I had with a DIAS is getting the dimensions right and how to properly fill out the Form 1 vs a more conventional Form 1 for a firearm, which I've done. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 9:51:00 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh yeah. That sounds like a pain. I'll just list an AR. How do I remove something from the trust later? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I just got my trust from my attorney and I'm impressed at how elaborate it is. She did good work. I'll go get it notarized today (after my coffee) and form 1 something. Rather than move a firearm into the trust I think I'll just form 1 a DIAS since it will be disapproved anyways. What do you guys think? The firearm won't be moved into the trust if it's disapproved unless you wanted to move it there anyway. The only concern I had with a DIAS is getting the dimensions right and how to properly fill out the Form 1 vs a more conventional Form 1 for a firearm, which I've done. With my trust, it is a simple matter of making a written "assignment of property" statement. You, as an individual, assign property to the trust, effectively placing your NFA item "in trust". Or, you, as a trustee acting on behalf of the trust, can assign property from the trust, to an individual, effectively removing it from the trust. Obviously with approved NFA items, it's $200 for every transfer. To be on the safe side, I get my assignment of property sheets noterized. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 10:14:36 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With my trust, it is a simple matter of making a written "assignment of property" statement. You, as an individual, assign property to the trust, effectively placing your NFA item "in trust". Or, you, as a trustee acting on behalf of the trust, can assign property from the trust, to an individual, effectively removing it from the trust. Obviously with approved NFA items, it's $200 for every transfer. To be on the safe side, I get my assignment of property sheets noterized. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I just got my trust from my attorney and I'm impressed at how elaborate it is. She did good work. I'll go get it notarized today (after my coffee) and form 1 something. Rather than move a firearm into the trust I think I'll just form 1 a DIAS since it will be disapproved anyways. What do you guys think? The firearm won't be moved into the trust if it's disapproved unless you wanted to move it there anyway. The only concern I had with a DIAS is getting the dimensions right and how to properly fill out the Form 1 vs a more conventional Form 1 for a firearm, which I've done. With my trust, it is a simple matter of making a written "assignment of property" statement. You, as an individual, assign property to the trust, effectively placing your NFA item "in trust". Or, you, as a trustee acting on behalf of the trust, can assign property from the trust, to an individual, effectively removing it from the trust. Obviously with approved NFA items, it's $200 for every transfer. To be on the safe side, I get my assignment of property sheets noterized. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 2:31:26 PM EDT
[#29]
Paper Form 1 sent today on a dedicated ar15 lower for this project... I know it will be denied but who knows.....
Also in for 200 for the lawyer fund.... |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 6:07:29 PM EDT
[#30]
"The form 1 fiasco"
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Posted: 9/30/2014 6:09:50 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"The form 1 fiasco" Sure would be nice if you could put that quote into a slightly broader context. Just sayin'.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 6:14:22 PM EDT
[#32]
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Sure would be nice if you could put that quote into a slightly broader context. Just sayin'. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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"The form 1 fiasco" Sure would be nice if you could put that quote into a slightly broader context. Just sayin'. I think that is enough for now. 
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Posted: 9/30/2014 7:06:26 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How many people on this thread have sent their Form1 in? About 4 pages ago. Denied about 3 pages ago.
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Posted: 9/30/2014 7:11:07 PM EDT
[#34]
And y'all are slowing down my SBR form 1s. 30 days now. boo hoo
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Posted: 9/30/2014 7:13:09 PM EDT
[#35]
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And y'all are slowing down my SBR form 1s. 30 days now. boo hoo Complaining about a 30 day wait when not long ago it was 4-6 months? lol. I'd rather wait 30 days on an eFile F1 if the possibility of having machine guns was brought back. Why do you hate freedom, bro?
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Posted: 9/30/2014 7:24:03 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By edcurtis: Complaining about a 30 day wait when not long ago it was 4-6 months? lol. I'd rather wait 30 days on an eFile F1 if the possibility of having machine guns was brought back. Why do you hate freedom, bro? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By edcurtis: Quoted: And y'all are slowing down my SBR form 1s. 30 days now. boo hoo Complaining about a 30 day wait when not long ago it was 4-6 months? lol. I'd rather wait 30 days on an eFile F1 if the possibility of having machine guns was brought back. Why do you hate freedom, bro? |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 7:26:01 PM EDT
[#37]
I really hope something good comes from all this
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Posted: 9/30/2014 7:27:04 PM EDT
[#38]
Is there any strategy behind so many people applying for Form 1 machine guns now, knowing they'll be denied? Does it help substantively at all, or are people just doing it as an act of protest?
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Posted: 9/30/2014 8:07:36 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is there any strategy behind so many people trusts applying for Form 1 machine guns now, knowing they'll be denied? Does it help substantively at all, or are people just doing it as an act of protest? Fixed
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Posted: 9/30/2014 9:10:36 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fixed Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is there any strategy behind so many people trusts applying for Form 1 machine guns now, knowing they'll be denied? Does it help substantively at all, or are people just doing it as an act of protest? Fixed i think it just helps our movement, if 1 request is denied then its no big deal. Just 1 guy who's upset. But if its 100s of trusts applying and getting denied then it may help the cause in court |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 9:16:34 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is there any strategy behind so many people applying for Form 1 machine guns now, knowing they'll be denied? Does it help substantively at all, or are people just doing it as an act of protest? |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 9:20:14 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "The form 1 fiasco" Awesome!
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Posted: 9/30/2014 9:55:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i think it just helps our movement, if 1 request is denied then its no big deal. Just 1 guy who's upset. But if its 100s of trusts applying and getting denied then it may help the cause in court Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is there any strategy behind so many people trusts applying for Form 1 machine guns now, knowing they'll be denied? Does it help substantively at all, or are people just doing it as an act of protest? Fixed i think it just helps our movement, if 1 request is denied then its no big deal. Just 1 guy who's upset. But if its 100s of trusts applying and getting denied then it may help the cause in court Could also provide an example of "look how much tax money was sent to the BATF, then refunded, because we passed a law preventing them from accepting those tax payments" for some legislator to bring up. |
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Posted: 9/30/2014 10:16:31 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Could also provide an example of "look how much tax money was sent to the BATF, then refunded, because we passed a law preventing them from accepting those tax payments" for some legislator to bring up. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is there any strategy behind so many people trusts applying for Form 1 machine guns now, knowing they'll be denied? Does it help substantively at all, or are people just doing it as an act of protest? Fixed i think it just helps our movement, if 1 request is denied then its no big deal. Just 1 guy who's upset. But if its 100s of trusts applying and getting denied then it may help the cause in court Could also provide an example of "look how much tax money was sent to the BATF, then refunded, because we passed a law preventing them from accepting those tax payments" for some legislator to bring up. |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 12:42:01 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How long are credit card payments in eforms taking to be returned? I know of at least one more Form 1 submitted. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is there any strategy behind so many people trusts applying for Form 1 machine guns now, knowing they'll be denied? Does it help substantively at all, or are people just doing it as an act of protest? Fixed i think it just helps our movement, if 1 request is denied then its no big deal. Just 1 guy who's upset. But if its 100s of trusts applying and getting denied then it may help the cause in court Could also provide an example of "look how much tax money was sent to the BATF, then refunded, because we passed a law preventing them from accepting those tax payments" for some legislator to bring up.  |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 7:41:27 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How long are credit card payments in eforms taking to be returned? I know of at least one more Form 1 submitted.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is there any strategy behind so many people trusts applying for Form 1 machine guns now, knowing they'll be denied? Does it help substantively at all, or are people just doing it as an act of protest? Fixed i think it just helps our movement, if 1 request is denied then its no big deal. Just 1 guy who's upset. But if its 100s of trusts applying and getting denied then it may help the cause in court Could also provide an example of "look how much tax money was sent to the BATF, then refunded, because we passed a law preventing them from accepting those tax payments" for some legislator to bring up.
I was quoted 30 days for a refund by the person who answered the phone. Efiled forms only. |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 7:53:50 AM EDT
[#47]
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The fuck you say? Alcohol kills daily. Drunks drivers kill, drunks die a slow and painful suicide cirrhosis of the liver? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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yes but how many people has alcohol killed? None. The fuck you say? Alcohol kills daily. Drunks drivers kill, drunks die a slow and painful suicide cirrhosis of the liver? I'm about 99.97% sure he was being ironic. |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 8:33:19 AM EDT
[#48]
eforms is down today for maintenance
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Posted: 10/1/2014 2:15:17 PM EDT
[#49]
I want full auto's legal for all law abiding citizens now!
how do we proceed?
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Posted: 10/1/2014 2:16:13 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Could also provide an example of "look how much tax money was sent to the BATF, then refunded, because we passed a law preventing them from accepting those tax payments" for some legislator to bring up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Is there any strategy behind so many people trusts applying for Form 1 machine guns now, knowing they'll be denied? Does it help substantively at all, or are people just doing it as an act of protest? Fixed i think it just helps our movement, if 1 request is denied then its no big deal. Just 1 guy who's upset. But if its 100s of trusts applying and getting denied then it may help the cause in court Could also provide an example of "look how much tax money was sent to the BATF, then refunded, because we passed a law preventing them from accepting those tax payments" for some legislator to bring up. +1 |
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