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Posted: 4/20/2014 2:55:38 AM EDT
[#1]
FBHO
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Posted: 4/20/2014 2:59:41 AM EDT
[#2]
Your buddy is probably a good guy. I know several LEO's that are too, but I'm sure the dog killers and hobo beaters say the same thing. That's why they should all have cameras.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 3:09:52 AM EDT
[#3]
My dept has dash cams. They work...most of the time. I do find it humorous when a co-worker accidently triggers the RECORD button.
 The shit they talk about...
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Posted: 4/20/2014 3:32:53 AM EDT
[#4]
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As much as possible, but they are also very expensive, some around $5,000. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Huh, I figured dashcams were standard equipment these days  As much as possible, but they are also very expensive, some around $5,000. $5,900 for a decent in-car system, body mounted cameras $200 to $1,700 depending on the functions, features, software and support. Officers can forget to turn them on or they hit the record button and it does not start. It can record some great evidence and is frequently able to clear complaints quickly. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 3:34:40 AM EDT
[#5]
How does dash cam vid make it to YouTube and live leak? I love watching the hilarity of a good taze but I cant imagine it is dept protocol to go "Hey Chief we are gonna YouTube this crazy bitch!". And have access to do it.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 3:47:47 AM EDT
[#6]
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How does dash cam vid make it to YouTube and live leak? I love watching the hilarity of a good taze but I cant imagine it is dept protocol to go "Hey Chief we are gonna YouTube this crazy bitch!". And have access to do it. FOIA is what happens sometimes. Others the person may make a public complaint and the department may release video to the press to squash it. Some may be released or posted without permission. When that happen some one gets in trouble or policy gets rewritten to prohibit that. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 4:29:51 AM EDT
[#7]
In my agency, we all wear body cams. I have a recorder in my car, but it hasn't worked in 2 years, and the chief won't spend ANY money on it. If it can't be fixed for free, it can't be fixed.
So we wear $80 eBay body cams instead. I have to remember to turn it on, and I admit that occasionally I forget. More often, I hit the button and it just doesn't come on, so I have to stop whatever I'm doing and check for the flashing light that says it's recording. I get about 2 hours of continuous recording on the battery before it is dead, so in a 12 hour shift, I have to be mindful of what needs to be recorded and what doesn't. Last time I got in a fight, it got knocked off and was dangling on its lanyard, so we got some really good audio of the fight, but little else. Though it seems like I'm bitching about them, I actually love having the recording capability. I don't think my agency has had a sustained citizen complaint since we started using them.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 4:37:08 AM EDT
[#8]
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Several of our resident LEO's here have had dashcam or bodycam footage completely exonerate them from citizens complaints. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Its for proving that bogus complaints are false. Several of our resident LEO's here have had dashcam or bodycam footage completely exonerate them from citizens complaints. Many a time for me. We just started wearing a body cam this yr. In car camera for almost 10. Saved my bacon  more than once.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 4:39:34 AM EDT
[#9]
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No "dash cam" manufacturer will say their system is totally reliable. But its common for Police Departments to treat them as if they are. And forgetting to turn it on is becomming one of the worst things a cop can do. There is basically zero tolerance for not catching something on video and audio both. Thats why cops complain about cameras. The cameras themselves are a great tool. The over reaching policies the departments write/publish regarding their use is what you will see cops complaining about. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And they also aren't reliable. I love them to death but ours only work perhaps 80% of the time. And you have to remember to turn them on too :) (unless it's a car stop, it is auto record on those) No "dash cam" manufacturer will say their system is totally reliable. But its common for Police Departments to treat them as if they are. And forgetting to turn it on is becomming one of the worst things a cop can do. There is basically zero tolerance for not catching something on video and audio both. Thats why cops complain about cameras. The cameras themselves are a great tool. The over reaching policies the departments write/publish regarding their use is what you will see cops complaining about. This, we get 2 days off if we forget to record. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 4:57:23 AM EDT
[#10]
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in this day and age there is no reason for a dash cam to not record the entire duration of the shift hell in urban areas the data should be streamed near realtime regardless the officer should have no control over the media /on /off most popo are honest and it helps more than it hurts in the days of cheap memory / storage no excuse for it not to be rolling 24/7 so, you want audio/ video of cops using the toilet? I can't bitch about aspects of my job/higher ups to co workers because the audio/video is always on? |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 5:09:13 AM EDT
[#11]
Goddamned right the good guys want cameras, and the bad ones are so bad that the fucking camera does not matter.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 5:30:46 AM EDT
[#12]
I came in on the cusp of cameras mounted in our cars. It used to be policy to have them on for stops only.
Now they want them on during ANY interaction/call. Im far from being someone that gets complained on every 5 minutes, and I dont do anything thats illegal or immoral, but there are times that people need to be put in their place and a recording just aint proper. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 5:46:06 AM EDT
[#13]
My body cam has made several cases that the dumbasses tried to fight later. My favorite was a convicted felon who told me to go get his money since he was going to jail. His money was in the closet ... in a drawer with his prison release paperwork ... and loose 12ga ammunition. On the other side of the closet was said 12ga.
He claimed I illegally searched his place, blah blah blah. Prosecutor watched my video once. He went back to prison. My unit serves a lot of warrants and I try to run it on every one we do. It has provided quite a bit of good video. Never once has it been used against us because ... we do a damn good job and we know the rules. It's pretty simple. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 5:49:23 AM EDT
[#14]
We had dash cams and internal cams in the cars for the back seat. Great kit for supporting officers accounts. Sadly, our new cars don't have them, cost cutting....body worn cams are good to. I would happily wear one all the time at work. The crims hate being recorded.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 5:59:58 AM EDT
[#15]
I would think all cops would want dash and body cameras
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Posted: 4/20/2014 6:22:21 AM EDT
[#16]
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In my agency, we all wear body cams. I have a recorder in my car, but it hasn't worked in 2 years, and the chief won't spend ANY money on it. If it can't be fixed for free, it can't be fixed. BTDT |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 6:26:35 AM EDT
[#17]
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Huh, I figured dashcams were standard equipment these days Nope..we've been arguing for them for over 10 years before I retired, town said "No" Every time because of the cost. While NJ is a One-Party state my particluar County Prosecutor ruled that PO's carrying Personal Recording Devices was a No-No
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Posted: 4/20/2014 6:28:03 AM EDT
[#18]
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Great for those too. So easy even a Federal Jury can understand. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I wish the body cams had been common when i was k9 handler EVERYONE bit sues EVERYONE bit was warned multiple times in Eng/Esp that that is exactly what would happen if they did not comply / come out Great for those too. So easy even a Federal Jury can understand.    Oh...you were Serious 
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Posted: 4/20/2014 6:28:05 AM EDT
[#19]
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Dept I work for every car has in-car video and we are issued body cams. I wouldn't work without them as they have saved me many times. Every complaint I have received since getting the cameras has been dismissed. MPD165 Not the first time I've heard that from an LEO. Good stuff! |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 6:33:11 AM EDT
[#20]
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Several of our resident LEO's here have had dashcam or bodycam footage completely exonerate them from citizens complaints. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Its for proving that bogus complaints are false. Several of our resident LEO's here have had dashcam or bodycam footage completely exonerate them from citizens complaints. Cameras keep everyone honest. And cameras remember everything they see. Humans , whether intentionally or not, are notoriously poor witnesses. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 6:34:21 AM EDT
[#21]
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While NJ is a One-Party state my particluar County Prosecutor ruled that PO's carrying Personal Recording Devices was a No-No We were told the same. Thanks Schoolcraft.  .
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Posted: 4/20/2014 6:36:37 AM EDT
[#22]
me too
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Huh, I figured dashcams were standard equipment these days |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 6:55:03 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
"I want a dashcam, but then again, I don't violate anyone's rights" Funny how GOOD cops like him, never get to be heard, just the fuckhead bad eggs. Indeed |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 6:57:58 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its for proving that bogus complaints are false. It has been proven that it alters behavior of the wearer. Complaints drop because of that, rather than being complaints being bogus.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 7:00:16 AM EDT
[#25]
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I would think all cops would want dash and body cameras Already have a dashcam. I purchased one of those pen cameras to wear on me. I've submitted video captured on it several times. It's amazing how video tells the truth. I love it and think every LEO should invest in one. We have policy which does not prohibit them. They have been talking about issuing them but it's expensive. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 7:14:38 AM EDT
[#26]
My admin wouldn't buy any sort of recording stuff even if they had the money. That's what we got for some of them being libertarian.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 7:22:40 AM EDT
[#27]
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It has been proven that it alters behavior of the wearer. Complaints drop because of that, rather than being complaints being bogus. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Its for proving that bogus complaints are false. It has been proven that it alters behavior of the wearer. Complaints drop because of that, rather than being complaints being bogus. I don't buy that for a second. I've seen too many officers and deputies do everything right and get complaints, with and without cameras. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 7:23:35 AM EDT
[#28]
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I've seen too many officers and deputies do everything right and get complaints, with and without cameras. BTDT |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 7:28:04 AM EDT
[#29]
I've been assigned to a differnet vehicle now that does not have a camera system. I miss it.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 7:43:31 AM EDT
[#30]
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Against policy here. No personal video or audio recording devices.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Local agencies in my area are using the Tazer body cam thingies. Most have no problem with them. Against policy here. No personal video or audio recording devices. That's a really stupid policy just wait until the first sexual assault claim costs the county 10 million. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 7:58:51 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Its for proving that bogus complaints are false. It has been proven that it alters behavior of the wearer. Complaints drop because of that, rather than being complaints being bogus. I think you are partly right. But the shear number of bogus complaints that happen and are sorted out by the use of the video, are significant. If it changes the mindset of those officers that, well, need supervision, and creates a pattern of better behavior, then that is good too. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 8:00:21 AM EDT
[#32]
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That's a really stupid policy just wait until the first sexual assault claim costs the county 10 million. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Local agencies in my area are using the Tazer body cam thingies. Most have no problem with them. Against policy here. No personal video or audio recording devices. That's a really stupid policy just wait until the first sexual assault claim costs the county 10 million. The LEA wants control over all recording devices. No personally owned is common. Also if you use personal devices anything you own can be discoverable in a court case, ie your home computer. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 8:05:28 AM EDT
[#33]
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I don't buy that for a second. I've seen too many officers and deputies do everything right and get complaints, with and without cameras. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Its for proving that bogus complaints are false. It has been proven that it alters behavior of the wearer. Complaints drop because of that, rather than being complaints being bogus. I don't buy that for a second. I've seen too many officers and deputies do everything right and get complaints, with and without cameras. After the first 3-4 publicized prosecutions for false complaints, when NJSP went to cameras, the number of complaints dropped by IIRC 90% |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 8:09:33 AM EDT
[#34]
No cameras at my first agency and when I got hired at my present agency I thought I was going to look like an unprofessional turd on camera. It turn out my fears were unfounded and I was just afraid of the unknown.
I would never willingly work patrol without a camera again!! |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 8:15:11 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Several of our resident LEO's here have had dashcam or bodycam footage completely exonerate them from citizens complaints. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Its for proving that bogus complaints are false. Several of our resident LEO's here have had dashcam or bodycam footage completely exonerate them from citizens complaints. Mine has on numerous occasions. Way back when we first got them, everyone thought the administration would just use it to nitpick and punish officers for every slightest think they didn't like. Instead, it has saved most of us from bullshit complaints when it shows that the one complaining is lying. And when an officer has royally fucked up, that can be documented and addressed. As a training officer, I don't want idiots out there policing any more than anyone here does. Video has a way of encouraging them to seek other employment. I wouldn't want to work without being recorded these days. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 8:18:21 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No "dash cam" manufacturer will say their system is totally reliable. But its common for Police Departments to treat them as if they are. And forgetting to turn it on is becomming one of the worst things a cop can do. There is basically zero tolerance for not catching something on video and audio both. Thats why cops complain about cameras. The cameras themselves are a great tool. The over reaching policies the departments write/publish regarding their use is what you will see cops complaining about. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And they also aren't reliable. I love them to death but ours only work perhaps 80% of the time. And you have to remember to turn them on too :) (unless it's a car stop, it is auto record on those) No "dash cam" manufacturer will say their system is totally reliable. But its common for Police Departments to treat them as if they are. And forgetting to turn it on is becomming one of the worst things a cop can do. There is basically zero tolerance for not catching something on video and audio both. Thats why cops complain about cameras. The cameras themselves are a great tool. The over reaching policies the departments write/publish regarding their use is what you will see cops complaining about. And in most places, policy is written by people who haven't seen the inside of a police car in 15-20 years. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 8:34:18 AM EDT
[#37]
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And in most places, policy is written by people who haven't seen the inside of a police car in 15-20 years. Or ever. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 8:43:19 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And in most places, policy is written by people who haven't seen the inside of a police car in 15-20 years. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
And they also aren't reliable. I love them to death but ours only work perhaps 80% of the time. And you have to remember to turn them on too :) (unless it's a car stop, it is auto record on those) No "dash cam" manufacturer will say their system is totally reliable. But its common for Police Departments to treat them as if they are. And forgetting to turn it on is becomming one of the worst things a cop can do. There is basically zero tolerance for not catching something on video and audio both. Thats why cops complain about cameras. The cameras themselves are a great tool. The over reaching policies the departments write/publish regarding their use is what you will see cops complaining about. And in most places, policy is written by people who haven't seen the inside of a police car in 15-20 years. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Half is..the other half is written by Liability Attorneys who have NEVER Done any Police work...other than watching Law and Order reruns. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 8:47:09 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
"I want a dashcam, but then again, I don't violate anyone's rights" Funny how GOOD cops like him, never get to be heard, just the fuckhead bad eggs. The whole issue about the GOOD cops versus the BAD cops revolves around what the GOOD cops do about the BAD cops. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 8:48:31 AM EDT
[#40]
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Its for proving that bogus complaints are false. You say that as though cops are constant scrutiny or something.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 8:49:13 AM EDT
[#41]
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in this day and age there is no reason for a dash cam to not record the entire duration of the shift Which manufacturer makes one that records 16.5 or even 12.5 hours? L3's with the 15.2 gig memory only get about 10-hours. Thats assuming the officers start with an empty memory, which assumes that the last shifts data downloaded completely. But even with a fresh memory card they will have to ration to make it trough the 12.5 hour shift. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 8:56:26 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This problem was solved VERY early on in dashcam implementation with them automatically coming on with the lights, siren, etc. Unless an officer is purposely turning them off, they record the traffic stop. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No "dash cam" manufacturer will say their system is totally reliable. But its common for Police Departments to treat them as if they are. And forgetting to turn it on is becomming one of the worst things a cop can do. There is basically zero tolerance for not catching something on video and audio both. This problem was solved VERY early on in dashcam implementation with them automatically coming on with the lights, siren, etc. Unless an officer is purposely turning them off, they record the traffic stop. You do realize police do things that do not involve traffic stops or turning on the lights and sirens? They want EVERY conversation on video and audio. But the memory is not there for them to just leave the system on "record" the whole shift. So they ration it. Getting a cup of coffee at the station, turn it off. Lunch break, turn it off. But they better remember to turn it back on immediately if something happens. We train cops to react a certain way. We now have to undo that and train them that the immediate action drill for everything is hit record first. As another poster mentioned the solution is systems that record 24/7 just as soon as the industry can provide them. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:02:35 AM EDT
[#43]
Was conducting a defense interview on a DUI case. The case was crappy and the officer (I knew from many past experiences) shouldn't guard strip malls.
So during the interview I ask him how he remembered how the guy performed on the FST's when he didn't fill out the DUI on incident report. He tells me that he has his own lapel cam and he records the investigation, goes back to the station, watches the video and then destroys it. I'm guessing some dumbass has decided lapel cam videos should be treated like notes. My client was very pleased when his case was dismissed.
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:02:59 AM EDT
[#44]
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so, you want audio/ video of cops using the toilet? I can't bitch about aspects of my job/higher ups to co workers because the audio/video is always on? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
in this day and age there is no reason for a dash cam to not record the entire duration of the shift hell in urban areas the data should be streamed near realtime regardless the officer should have no control over the media /on /off most popo are honest and it helps more than it hurts in the days of cheap memory / storage no excuse for it not to be rolling 24/7 so, you want audio/ video of cops using the toilet? I can't bitch about aspects of my job/higher ups to co workers because the audio/video is always on? I would rather cops have a system that records 24/7 than to have good cops get in trouble because that had to ration their data memory and were not recording when a sudden unanticipated event occurs. To me its insane that we punish cops for such. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:06:47 AM EDT
[#45]
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If he's such a good cop, why doesn't he report the "fuckhead bad eggs" he works with? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
"I want a dashcam, but then again, I don't violate anyone's rights" Funny how GOOD cops like him, never get to be heard, just the fuckhead bad eggs. If he's such a good cop, why doesn't he report the "fuckhead bad eggs" he works with? You just chased and armed robber down a dark alley with no way out. Your backup that rolls up is the fuckhead bad egg whom you're testifying against tomorrow. He says he'll follow behind with the shotgun.
Never watched Al Pacino in Serpico, did ya? |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:06:52 AM EDT
[#46]
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And cameras remember everything they see. Humans , whether intentionally or not, are notoriously poor witnesses. True, but they have a narrow field of view and therefore present a very incomplete picture of any event. Still a good tool. FOV issues can be mitigated by trying to stage the scene. But that is a trade off. Do we demand officers position the patrol car where it will obtain the best video or do we allow them to position the patrol car using the officer safety based tactics of old? |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:08:35 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And in most places, policy is written by people who haven't seen the inside of a police car in 15-20 years. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
And they also aren't reliable. I love them to death but ours only work perhaps 80% of the time. And you have to remember to turn them on too :) (unless it's a car stop, it is auto record on those) No "dash cam" manufacturer will say their system is totally reliable. But its common for Police Departments to treat them as if they are. And forgetting to turn it on is becomming one of the worst things a cop can do. There is basically zero tolerance for not catching something on video and audio both. Thats why cops complain about cameras. The cameras themselves are a great tool. The over reaching policies the departments write/publish regarding their use is what you will see cops complaining about. And in most places, policy is written by people who haven't seen the inside of a police car in 15-20 years. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Or lawyers who never have. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:14:49 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You say that as though cops are constant scrutiny or something. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Its for proving that bogus complaints are false. You say that as though cops are constant scrutiny or something. There are folks in Los Angeles that do nothing but write up complaints on every cop they see. All they need is a plate number, or car number, and that officer is suspended while some bogus complaint is investigated. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:19:51 AM EDT
[#49]
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There are folks in Los Angeles that do nothing but write up complaints on every cop they see. All they need is a plate number, or car number, and that officer is suspended while some bogus complaint is investigated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Its for proving that bogus complaints are false. You say that as though cops are constant scrutiny or something.
There are folks in Los Angeles that do nothing but write up complaints on every cop they see. All they need is a plate number, or car number, and that officer is suspended while some bogus complaint is investigated. Our local cops do not suspend officers for routine complaints. They do however pass them over for promotion while the complaints investigated which takes 6-18 months. if an officer finds himself on the Sgt or Detective eligibility list a complaint means he will be passed over. if the complaint is not resolved before the list expires he will have to retest for the next list which might be next year or in three years. In this manner any complaint, even an unfounded one, can cost them thousands of dollars in lost wages and also impact their pension. This sytem has the unintentional effect of allowing lazy people to promote and the go getters getting held back. No arrests or low arrest can be fast tracked to Lt. Lots of arrest can mean street cop forever. The solution would be in the event of someone being passed over due to a complaint which is later ruled unfounded would be a retroactive promotion with back pay to the date they would have promoted if not for the complaint. |
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Posted: 4/20/2014 9:23:52 AM EDT
[#50]
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The whole issue about the GOOD cops versus the BAD cops revolves around what the GOOD cops do about the BAD cops. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
"I want a dashcam, but then again, I don't violate anyone's rights" Funny how GOOD cops like him, never get to be heard, just the fuckhead bad eggs. The whole issue about the GOOD cops versus the BAD cops revolves around what the GOOD cops do about the BAD cops. Here, they get gone. I've never seen one last very long. |
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