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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:31:24 PM EDT
[#1]
"Davis County Sheriff Todd Richardson tells the Tribune that it's only a matter of time before the rifle is found. He says they will prosecute the person that took it, even if he or she is a deputy or police officer."
Read More The Sheriff needs to man up and follow through with that statement. Prosecute him and at the least fire the people in-charge of keeping records in the armory. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:33:11 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"These aren't my pants." 
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yea, bullshit "Return the rifle we caught you with or you'll be prosecuted"...."oh yea, I totally forgot about that!"
But you said you pulled them on from the floor next to your girlfriend's bed.... 
Quoted:
7 years is a long time to not notice a machine gun laying around your house If he was paying out of pocket for ammo, not it's not. 
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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:40:09 PM EDT
[#3]
I dunno I damn near bought a gun I was wanting only to wait and go into the safe and discover I already owned that particular gun
. If the dude has a lot,of ars it probably doesn't look any different I can see it happening.
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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:48:50 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bet the guys in that department under age 30 have never even touched a microfiche. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I knew a deputy who had an dept-owned M16 in his safe. The rifle hadn't seen the inside of a cruiser or the arms room for a very long time, and the records for it were probably on microfiche by then. I bet the guys in that department under age 30 have never even touched a microfiche. I have a microfiche copy of my service record. I got out in 92. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:49:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I dunno I damn near bought a gun I was wanting only to wait and go into the safe and discover I already owned that particular gun . If the dude has a lot,of ars it probably doesn't look any different I can see it happening.Lots of ARs, multiple safes, or a big safe that's packed. some people have a safe w/ the guns they use all the time, and another safe of stuff you collect. Might not get into the collection safe on a regular basis. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:49:45 PM EDT
[#6]
In all fairness, I have a rifle that the owner forgot I had. Coworker asked me to get his Krag working for him. Sadly his grandfather had it rebarreled to .243. I brought it home, started a bit of research, and found out that .243 operates at roughly 14,000psi more than the 6.5X55MM the rifle was intended for. Told him that, said I don't recommend ever shooting it again, and I'd either do a deep cleaning, light oil and clean the bore, or give it back as-is. He said he wanted to think about it. Two years later I asked if he wanted it back(he moved and he's been off work for months at a time due to medical issues and I don't see him a lot) and he said he forgot he gave it to me.
Of course, I damn sure have known I have had it all this time. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:50:33 PM EDT
[#7]
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What makes it any more bad than if he had misplaced a AR 15? Your all looking at this wrong, some of you are acting as if that's some kinda fucking evil gun than need's to have a qualified person to have... like a gun hating dem. What makes it any more bad than if he had misplaced a AR 15? ..... Because it wasn't his in the first place? He only "found" it when they opened an investigation into the whereabouts and who may have taken it. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:51:29 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:53:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh Boy, He's in for it now! 
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"The deputy faces administrative action, according to investigators.
They said a report has been given to the Davis County Attorney’s Office for review." Oh Boy, He's in for it now!
Sternly worded letter inbound. Shit just got real. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:53:52 PM EDT
[#10]
So dude had felony possession of a MG not registered to him and he faces administrative action??? Some animals are more equal and all that jazz.
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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:54:17 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What makes it any more bad than if he had misplaced a AR 15? Your all looking at this wrong, some of you are acting as if that's some kinda fucking evil gun than need's to have a qualified person to have... like a gun hating dem. What makes it any more bad than if he had misplaced a AR 15? ..... I don't think anyone has a hatred for m16s. I think the issue is the fact that if your average Joe pulled this shit he'd be getting cornholed in a federal penatentary somewhere about now. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 7:55:16 PM EDT
[#12]
Any one of us normal guys would be getting cuffed and put in federal pound me in the ass prison.
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Posted: 4/18/2014 8:42:01 PM EDT
[#13]
Maybe he has a legitimate excuse. If hes got several lookalikes in his safe, maybe he overlooked it.
I'm sure Uncle Sam would understand if I accidentally lost an M16A1 in my safe because I have a few retro-rifle copies so I didn't notice it, right? |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 8:43:59 PM EDT
[#14]
So the M-16 just appeared in his safe? Some guys have all the luck.
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Posted: 4/18/2014 8:50:09 PM EDT
[#15]
He shouldn't have opened his mouth. I'm all for more full autos in circulation.
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Posted: 4/18/2014 8:52:56 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Totally believable If you know how the govt. works, yes it is! I had a piece of equipment that they thought was destroyed. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 8:58:27 PM EDT
[#17]
Reminds me of the joint that fell out of Theo's school book.
A friend must have put it there....  |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 10:04:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ah, the good old days Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I knew a deputy who had an dept-owned M16 in his safe. The rifle hadn't seen the inside of a cruiser or the arms room for a very long time, and the records for it were probably on microfiche by then. I bet the guys in that department under age 30 have never even touched a microfiche. Ah, the good old days Yeah, my age is showing a little.
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Posted: 4/18/2014 10:07:02 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ah, the good old days Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I knew a deputy who had an dept-owned M16 in his safe. The rifle hadn't seen the inside of a cruiser or the arms room for a very long time, and the records for it were probably on microfiche by then. I bet the guys in that department under age 30 have never even touched a microfiche. Ah, the good old days Did the new microfiche come in, or are these last month's? |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 10:22:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fixed. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Outstanding property control in that department. All's well that ends well, though, just as it would be if one of us STOLE a MG. Fixed. The story claims he asked permission to get it when he was on the SWAT team. Doesn't say HE's the one who lost the paperwork. (I've told this before, and some of the other people who were involved might be members here ;-) ) I was once peripherally involved when the US Army lost an M60A1 main battle tank. Back in the '80's, in the days of paper hand receipts, a Guard recruiter requisitioned it for recruiting purposes, and it was delivered to the armory where he worked. The depot that owned it then lost the paperwork, but didn't realize they were missing it. In the meantime, said Guard recruiter retired and didn't bother contacting anybody about returning the tank to the depot. A year or so later, a different Guard recruiter in another city was trying to get some Army armor for a Boy Scout Camporee, because a Marine Reserve unit had already agreed to supply an M109 for a static display, and he didn't want to be shown up. A Guard tanker had heard about this abandoned tank at an armory (they'd dropped the escape hatch to gain access and were hiding out in it to sham from doing work during drill), and they drove to to the second recruiters armory. Some months later, someone was annoyed at the Guard recruiter and looked up the unit number off the bumper and called the depot up, asking if they knew they had a tank there. Folks at the depot promptly produced large quantities of smelly brown stuff and made a frantic phone call to the recruiter telling him to park it wherever it was. Once he proved that he was actually licensed by the Army to drive that class of armored vehicles, they allowed him to use it for limited purposes until they could schedule a lowboy to retrieve it, which took another month or two. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 10:27:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because it wasn't his in the first place? He only "found" it when they opened an investigation into the whereabouts and who may have taken it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What makes it any more bad than if he had misplaced a AR 15? Your all looking at this wrong, some of you are acting as if that's some kinda fucking evil gun than need's to have a qualified person to have... like a gun hating dem. What makes it any more bad than if he had misplaced a AR 15? ..... Because it wasn't his in the first place? He only "found" it when they opened an investigation into the whereabouts and who may have taken it. I dunno, actually reading the article makes it sound like the deputy really isn't the one who should be in trouble here. The armory issued it to him, but apparently failed to keep paperwork of such, considering that no one apparently ever informed this guy that they were looking for the rifle. According to the story, he reported that he found it after reading about the investigation in the newspaper...which means no one in his agency had apparently thought to ever ask him about it. I can see someone getting issued a rifle, then immediately checking out to Afghanistan for 18 months, returning for a month or two at home, and heading out for another year or two...by the time he gets back from that, the stupid old M16A2 in the back of the safe is probably not going to be high on his list of things to think about. And if his superior hadn't ever asked him to verify possession of the rifle, why would he? Hell, I've forgotten about rifles I bought years ago, until digging around here and there and uncovering them. It's like Christmas all over again on days when I sort and re-inventory my collection... |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 10:30:46 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe he has a legitimate excuse. If hes got several lookalikes in his safe, maybe he overlooked it. I'm sure Uncle Sam would understand if I accidentally lost an M16A1 in my safe because I have a few retro-rifle copies so I didn't notice it, right? Who would report a lost machine gun without going through their safe though? |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 10:31:23 PM EDT
[#23]
Whats the penalty for losing an NFA item?
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Posted: 4/18/2014 10:45:02 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who would report a lost machine gun without going through their safe though? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Maybe he has a legitimate excuse. If hes got several lookalikes in his safe, maybe he overlooked it. I'm sure Uncle Sam would understand if I accidentally lost an M16A1 in my safe because I have a few retro-rifle copies so I didn't notice it, right? Who would report a lost machine gun without going through their safe though? He's not the one who reported it missing. The Feds audited the department last year and one of the twenty M16A1's they were supposed to have wasn't accounted for. He apparently just heard about the missing rifle and checked to see whether he still had one in his safe, and called his supervisor to ask if the one he had was the one they couldn't account for. I know I SELDOM see the rifles in the very back of my safe (tried to sell one of them once, loaned it to a friend for a couple of years, got it back last year, still haven't decided what to do with it, although I at least got some nice pictures of it being held by a topless model ;-) ). Heck, between my guns, my brother's guns while he's deployed, and a friend's guns being stored while he stays in NYC for a while and decides whether he's moving there and needs to dispose of them, I have to keep a spreadsheet just to know what I have, and where it's stored. Getting time for a second safe, this one is at well over it's rated capacity, I'm having to put some guns in muzzle down to fit between others to get the door closed... |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 10:46:00 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Whats the penalty for losing an NFA item? Privately owned? A bunch of money. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 11:05:41 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At $25,000 and up? Yeah, right. Didn't read the article did ya? The rifle was on loan to the police department From the federal government which means its not a transferable m16 which means it is worth nothing on the legitimate market. I would Bet 99% of le mg's are post 86 guns. Do transferable mg's pop up for Sale from a pd from time to time, sure, but it's like finding a origional 60's corvette In some widows barn. |
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Posted: 4/18/2014 11:08:04 PM EDT
[#27]
Did you guys read the article?
1. Guy borrows rifle from department. 2. Guy puts it in his safe 3. Guy deploys to AFG twice in looks like 4 years totaling 2.5 years deployed. 4. While he is deployed, Dept notices gun is missing, looks for it. Guy never knows about it, since he's overseas. 5. When guy comes home, sees the missing rifle story on the news and calls his supervisor and says he has one. And it's it. Department fucked up by not knowing who they gave the rifle to obviously, but I don't see the outcry. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 3:20:05 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you guys read the article? 1. Guy borrows rifle from department. 2. Guy puts it in his safe 3. Guy deploys to AFG twice in looks like 4 years totaling 2.5 years deployed. 4. While he is deployed, Dept notices gun is missing, looks for it. Guy never knows about it, since he's overseas. 5. When guy comes home, sees the missing rifle story on the news and calls his supervisor and says he has one. And it's it. Department fucked up by not knowing who they gave the rifle to obviously, but I don't see the outcry. I thinks it's about the 7 year time frame and the fact that it was only produced after an investigation was started. I do understand that originally is was a misunderstanding but after 7 years..........even this guy goes thru all his gun stuff every year or two and "US Property" marked M16s are not easy to overlook, especially since he KNOWS what they are, he can't really blame ignorance on that. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 3:27:54 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you guys read the article? 1. Guy borrows rifle from department. 2. Guy puts it in his safe 3. Guy deploys to AFG twice in looks like 4 years totaling 2.5 years deployed. 4. While he is deployed, Dept notices gun is missing, looks for it. Guy never knows about it, since he's overseas. 5. When guy comes home, sees the missing rifle story on the news and calls his supervisor and says he has one. And it's it. Department fucked up by not knowing who they gave the rifle to obviously, but I don't see the outcry. He'd been back for several years by the time the 2013 audit happened and the agency couldn't produce the firearm. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 3:41:57 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Davis County Sheriff Todd Richardson tells the Tribune that it's only a matter of time before the rifle is found. He says they will prosecute the person that took it, even if he or she is a deputy or police officer." Read More The Sheriff needs to man up and follow through with that statement. Prosecute him and at the least fire the people in-charge of keeping records in the armory. Why do the people who do the inventory get punished? The sneaky cop wants to keep an issued item and "hides" it from them, how is that their fault. Our deputies were given mobile fingerprint devices. One deputy lost his and a concerned citizen returned it. The deputy got in trouble twice. Once for losing it, and again for taking someone else's and saying it was his. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 3:49:23 AM EDT
[#31]
I shall refer to this case, if I'm ever in trouble with the law. "Whoops. I forgot." will surely hold up in court for me, right?
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Posted: 4/19/2014 3:49:55 AM EDT
[#32]
Qualified, trained professionals.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 3:51:57 AM EDT
[#33]
phhht....
You don't forget about checking out an M16 that belongs to your department. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 4:02:54 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you guys read the article? 1. Guy borrows rifle from department. 2. Guy puts it in his safe 3. Guy deploys to AFG twice in looks like 4 years totaling 2.5 years deployed. 4. While he is deployed, Dept notices gun is missing, looks for it. Guy never knows about it, since he's overseas. 5. When guy comes home, sees the missing rifle story on the news and calls his supervisor and says he has one. And it's it. Department fucked up by not knowing who they gave the rifle to obviously, but I don't see the outcry. Plenty of time to return it. Only when he saw trouble on the way did he remember to give it back. He borrowed it 7 fucking years ago. Give me a fucking break dude. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 4:06:26 AM EDT
[#35]
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Must be nice to live by a separate set of standards.. No shit. 
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Posted: 4/19/2014 4:06:44 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shitty weapons management practices. What agency lets a weapon leave the armory without a signed issuance form? What agency lets a deployed member retain any firearms? ETA: And no yearly armorer inspection? I would say that at least 75% of agencies operate that way. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 4:17:02 AM EDT
[#37]
What happened to 100% sensitive item monthly inventories? The leadership failed here since 2006.
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Posted: 4/19/2014 4:28:55 AM EDT
[#38]
I'm still stuck on Feds auditing local PDs. WTF? Only a matter of time before we're next. Kali first!
Off to dig into the safe.... |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 4:28:58 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bet the guys in that department under age 30 have never even touched a microfiche. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I knew a deputy who had an dept-owned M16 in his safe. The rifle hadn't seen the inside of a cruiser or the arms room for a very long time, and the records for it were probably on microfiche by then. I bet the guys in that department under age 30 have never even touched a microfiche. Is that the shit you use the projector viewer thingy for? |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 4:29:10 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He may actually have enough guns in his safe that it got buried. That being said the department really needs to track their critical equipment better. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 4:34:35 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would say that at least 75% of agencies operate that way. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Shitty weapons management practices. What agency lets a weapon leave the armory without a signed issuance form? What agency lets a deployed member retain any firearms? ETA: And no yearly armorer inspection? I would say that at least 75% of agencies operate that way. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile That's crazy. We inspect every single agency-owned weapon at least once a year. We have a redundant issue logging system, both paper and digital. Every single weapon has it's own paper file in a set of filing cabinets. If one goes missing, we would know exactly who to hold accountable instantly. And people who get deployed are required to turn in all weapons prior to going on orders. In a properly managed system, there's no way a weapon could be missing that long without an investigation. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 4:37:33 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
sounds like nobody even noticed it missing til 2013. Herein is the real problem. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 4:42:06 AM EDT
[#43]
how many times many times in GD do you see the "hey I found a gun in my safe I forgot I owned" threads? Personally, there is no way in hell I'd forget that I had an M16 or any police issued NFA item on my property either. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 4:55:17 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
how many times many times in GD do you see the "hey I found a gun in my safe I forgot I owned" threads? Personally, there is no way in hell I'd forget that I had an M16 or any police issued NFA item on my property either. ^this. I know exactly what is in my safe. Furthermore, he should have returned it to the dept. prior to his deployment. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 5:02:40 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you guys read the article? 1. Guy borrows rifle from department. 2. Guy puts it in his safe 3. Guy deploys to AFG twice in looks like 4 years totaling 2.5 years deployed. 4. While he is deployed, Dept notices gun is missing, looks for it. Guy never knows about it, since he's overseas. 5. When guy comes home, sees the missing rifle story on the news and calls his supervisor and says he has one. And it's it. Department fucked up by not knowing who they gave the rifle to obviously, but I don't see the outcry. You left out a key piece of info. The article also said he was home "several years". Do you really believe he had a M16 in his safe for "several years" without noticing it???? "The deputy is a member of the U.S. military and was deployed to Afghanistan for 1½ years after receiving orders in 2006, according to the sheriff's office. It said he returned home for a brief period before doing a second tour in the Middle East. He has been home from his second tour for several years." |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 5:03:03 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
he'll get paid leave and then put back on the job two sets of rules, one for the royalty and one for the chumps footing the bill Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
He might get his pee pee smacked. he'll get paid leave and then put back on the job two sets of rules, one for the royalty and one for the chumps footing the bill Yep. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 6:52:32 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do the people who do the inventory get punished? The sneaky cop wants to keep an issued item and "hides" it from them, how is that their fault. Our deputies were given mobile fingerprint devices. One deputy lost his and a concerned citizen returned it. The deputy got in trouble twice. Once for losing it, and again for taking someone else's and saying it was his. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
"Davis County Sheriff Todd Richardson tells the Tribune that it's only a matter of time before the rifle is found. He says they will prosecute the person that took it, even if he or she is a deputy or police officer." Read More The Sheriff needs to man up and follow through with that statement. Prosecute him and at the least fire the people in-charge of keeping records in the armory. Why do the people who do the inventory get punished? The sneaky cop wants to keep an issued item and "hides" it from them, how is that their fault. Our deputies were given mobile fingerprint devices. One deputy lost his and a concerned citizen returned it. The deputy got in trouble twice. Once for losing it, and again for taking someone else's and saying it was his. Maybe because they haven't been doing their job?? The gun was checked out in 2006 and only discover it missing in 2014. To me that is piss poor property management. Do Sheriff departments actually do a inventory of their property on a scheduled basis? Do they make their employee's sign for issued items (of a significant value or high-theft item) ? I'm not LEO so I don't know. All I know that when I was in charge of a munitions account in the military I would have lost a stripe for mismanagement of property that went missing that long. Of course I wouldn't have been the only one to get in hot water. There would have been other joining me because there were two of us in charge of managing it, a group level manager that oversaw it, wing level manager and so on. I know military doesn't equate to how LEO (or civilian) organizations operate 99% of the time...we were more anal in keeping records. To me it boils down to someone who is responsible for inventory management of these M-16's is also at fault, it was missing for way to long. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:09:06 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shitty weapons management practices. What agency lets a weapon leave the armory without a signed issuance form? What agency lets a deployed member retain any firearms? ETA: And no yearly armorer inspection? A lot of them. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 7:46:06 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thinks it's about the 7 year time frame and the fact that it was only produced after an investigation was started. I do understand that originally is was a misunderstanding but after 7 years..........even this guy goes thru all his gun stuff every year or two and "US Property" marked M16s are not easy to overlook, especially since he KNOWS what they are, he can't really blame ignorance on that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Did you guys read the article? 1. Guy borrows rifle from department. 2. Guy puts it in his safe 3. Guy deploys to AFG twice in looks like 4 years totaling 2.5 years deployed. 4. While he is deployed, Dept notices gun is missing, looks for it. Guy never knows about it, since he's overseas. 5. When guy comes home, sees the missing rifle story on the news and calls his supervisor and says he has one. And it's it. Department fucked up by not knowing who they gave the rifle to obviously, but I don't see the outcry. I thinks it's about the 7 year time frame and the fact that it was only produced after an investigation was started. I do understand that originally is was a misunderstanding but after 7 years..........even this guy goes thru all his gun stuff every year or two and "US Property" marked M16s are not easy to overlook, especially since he KNOWS what they are, he can't really blame ignorance on that. But why would he think it was missing? As far as he knows, the agency signed it out to him, and he's still with the agency, and no one has ever asked him to return it to the armory or count it during an inventory...so for what reason would he suspect that he needed to do a damn thing with it? Again, this all comes back to a complete and utter fucking lack of inventory management and oversight on the part of the agency. They should have known who it was originally signed out to. They should have conducted annual audits. They should have notified the deputies before initiating a full scale investigation, and informally inquired around with them as to the whereabouts of the rifle. Instead they did none of the above, and now get to choose between scapegoating the deputy or having even more egg on face for the agency. |
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Posted: 4/19/2014 8:17:41 AM EDT
[#50]
What about personal responsibility? I know if I was going away for an extended peroid, I would turn in ALL issued equipment for two reasons. First, so I am not responsible if it disappears, and Second so it could be issued to someone else if they need it while I am gone.
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