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Posted: 4/6/2014 12:20:23 PM EDT
Haven't seen an official source yet, but I'm hearing from some folks that the M&P testing did not go well and they're sticking with the P226 for now.
I'll update with an actual source when one comes out publicly. Until then, feel free to swing Brand purses indiscriminately. 
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Posted: 4/6/2014 12:34:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Problems I'm hearing claimed:
Failure to feed, failure to eject, and stovepipes. 
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Posted: 4/6/2014 12:36:11 PM EDT
[#2]
Glock is best Glock.
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Posted: 4/6/2014 12:43:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Not to mention the sketchy barrel lockup/accuracy problems.
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Posted: 4/6/2014 12:47:42 PM EDT
[#4]
As much as people hate on Cohen era Sigs, that's a real insult to S&W.
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Posted: 4/6/2014 12:48:04 PM EDT
[#5]
Why did they want to change in the first place? I know an M&P is less expensive than a Sig, but a Sig you is already bought and paid for is MUCH less expensive than an M&P that isn't...
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Posted: 4/6/2014 12:49:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why did they want to change in the first place? I know an M&P is less expensive than a Sig, but a Sig you is already bought and paid for is MUCH less expensive than an M&P that isn't... .357 Sig ammo=$$$$$$ |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 12:50:13 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why did they want to change in the first place? I know an M&P is less expensive than a Sig, but a Sig you is already bought and paid for is MUCH less expensive than an M&P that isn't... Ammo cost and availability. That's the driving factor, and actual DPS troopers have not heard of this rumor. I just checked. 
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Posted: 4/6/2014 12:51:16 PM EDT
[#8]
Oh I didn't know they were in .357 sig. I would think a P226 in .357 sig would be an awesome gun though. I wonder how long they would last, since you are pretty much limited to hot ammo for that caliber, and alloy frames aren't always known for extremely high round counts.
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Posted: 4/6/2014 12:53:28 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh I didn't know they were in .357 sig. I would think a P226 in .357 sig would be an awesome gun though. I wonder how long they would last, since you are pretty much limited to hot ammo for that caliber, and alloy frames aren't always known for extremely high round counts. They've been lasting quite well since DPS cannot get ammo. 
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Posted: 4/6/2014 12:54:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh I didn't know they were in .357 sig. I would think a P226 in .357 sig would be an awesome gun though. I wonder how long they would last, since you are pretty much limited to hot ammo for that caliber, and alloy frames aren't always known for extremely high round counts. Well, since you're shooting .357 Sig in a Sig gun, I would presume they would hold up quite well. |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 12:58:45 PM EDT
[#11]
You'd think if the only major bitching was about .357 Sig ammo costs, then they would just issue out .40 S&W barrels and Taa Daaaahhhh Easy caliber change over.
.40 S&W and .357 sig I can find on the ammo shelves every day and compared to prices for .45 and 9mm (when it can be found) seem very comparable. Don't see .357 ammo costs being a huge factor, especially considering the cost of the Sigs (not cheap) they bought and issued. that said, are they going to be better off with a 9mm, since finding 9mm ball or self defense rounds is like a winning lottery ticket these days! |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 1:02:13 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You'd think if the only major bitching was about .357 Sig ammo costs, then they would just issue out .40 S&W barrels and Taa Daaaahhhh Easy caliber change over. .40 S&W and .357 sig I can find on the ammo shelves every day and compared to prices for .45 and 9mm (when it can be found) seem very comparable. Don't see .357 ammo costs being a huge factor, especially considering the cost of the Sigs (not cheap) they bought and issued. that said, are they going to be better off with a 9mm, since finding 9mm ball or self defense rounds is like a winning lottery ticket these days! No one is paying retail. Bulk govt ammo cost for 9mm practice is around $6 a box. .40 is about the same. Bulk practice ammo for .357 Sig is $13 a box. I don't really call that "comparable" 
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Posted: 4/6/2014 1:02:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Problems I'm hearing claimed: Failure to feed, failure to eject, and stovepipes. Wait. They were switching to Kimber? |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 1:07:13 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Glock is best Glock. This |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 1:07:36 PM EDT
[#15]
G21 FTW
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Posted: 4/6/2014 1:07:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait. They were switching to Kimber? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Problems I'm hearing claimed: Failure to feed, failure to eject, and stovepipes. Wait. They were switching to Kimber? it might be that non-standard load they were insisting on if true. |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 1:08:00 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No one is paying retail. Bulk govt ammo cost for 9mm practice is around $6 a box. .40 is about the same. Bulk practice ammo for .357 Sig is $13 a box. I don't really call that "comparable" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You'd think if the only major bitching was about .357 Sig ammo costs, then they would just issue out .40 S&W barrels and Taa Daaaahhhh Easy caliber change over. .40 S&W and .357 sig I can find on the ammo shelves every day and compared to prices for .45 and 9mm (when it can be found) seem very comparable. Don't see .357 ammo costs being a huge factor, especially considering the cost of the Sigs (not cheap) they bought and issued. that said, are they going to be better off with a 9mm, since finding 9mm ball or self defense rounds is like a winning lottery ticket these days! No one is paying retail. Bulk govt ammo cost for 9mm practice is around $6 a box. .40 is about the same. Bulk practice ammo for .357 Sig is $13 a box. I don't really call that "comparable" I wish we could pay Texas prices. I just ordered ammo for our dept. and we paid about $15 a box for 9mm duty (same price for FMJ so we just get all Ranger 147 duty) and $18 a box for .40 practice ammo and $22 for duty. (all Winchester ammo.) 
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Posted: 4/6/2014 1:14:01 PM EDT
[#18]
so if .357 is off the chart expensive for Texas D.P.S., then why not issue out a .40 S&W barrel and be done with .357 Sig.?
Same gun, same magazines, same holsters, same training just issue a .40 S&W barrel and let them covert to the .40? Would this just be WAY too easy for any .Gov agency to do?
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Posted: 4/6/2014 1:22:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No one is paying retail. Bulk govt ammo cost for 9mm practice is around $6 a box. .40 is about the same. Bulk practice ammo for .357 Sig is $13 a box. I don't really call that "comparable" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You'd think if the only major bitching was about .357 Sig ammo costs, then they would just issue out .40 S&W barrels and Taa Daaaahhhh Easy caliber change over. .40 S&W and .357 sig I can find on the ammo shelves every day and compared to prices for .45 and 9mm (when it can be found) seem very comparable. Don't see .357 ammo costs being a huge factor, especially considering the cost of the Sigs (not cheap) they bought and issued. that said, are they going to be better off with a 9mm, since finding 9mm ball or self defense rounds is like a winning lottery ticket these days! No one is paying retail. Bulk govt ammo cost for 9mm practice is around $6 a box. .40 is about the same. Bulk practice ammo for .357 Sig is $13 a box. I don't really call that "comparable" Just us "Little People" ... 
Would love to hook up with a couple of cases at $6 a box. |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 2:40:17 PM EDT
[#20]
E-mail from the DPS Director was sent out Friday. "The A-2014 recruit academy was to be issued the S&W M&P upon graduation, but will instead receive the current Sig .357 from existing stock." Issues with the weapons during training, but did not elaborate. Will be working with S&W to resolve the issues.
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Posted: 4/6/2014 2:50:52 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Problems I'm hearing claimed: Failure to feed, failure to eject, and stovepipes. That could ALL be cause by limp wristing, couldnt it??!!?? In all honesty, if you limp wrist a damn 9mm, you shouldnt be shooting, period. |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 2:51:05 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
E-mail from the DPS Director was sent out Friday. "The A-2014 recruit academy was to be issued the S&W M&P upon graduation, but will instead receive the current Sig .357 from existing stock." Issues with the weapons during training, but did not elaborate. Will be working with S&W to resolve the issues. Thanks for chiming in. If/when you can, please share what some of the issues were. I'm curious. |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 2:56:19 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just us "Little People" ...
Would love to hook up with a couple of cases at $6 a box. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You'd think if the only major bitching was about .357 Sig ammo costs, then they would just issue out .40 S&W barrels and Taa Daaaahhhh Easy caliber change over. .40 S&W and .357 sig I can find on the ammo shelves every day and compared to prices for .45 and 9mm (when it can be found) seem very comparable. Don't see .357 ammo costs being a huge factor, especially considering the cost of the Sigs (not cheap) they bought and issued. that said, are they going to be better off with a 9mm, since finding 9mm ball or self defense rounds is like a winning lottery ticket these days! No one is paying retail. Bulk govt ammo cost for 9mm practice is around $6 a box. .40 is about the same. Bulk practice ammo for .357 Sig is $13 a box. I don't really call that "comparable" Just us "Little People" ...
Would love to hook up with a couple of cases at $6 a box. Come up with a 2.2 million round order and you can.
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Posted: 4/6/2014 2:58:10 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wish we could pay Texas prices. I just ordered ammo for our dept. and we paid about $15 a box for 9mm duty (same price for FMJ so we just get all Ranger 147 duty) and $18 a box for .40 practice ammo and $22 for duty. (all Winchester ammo.) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You'd think if the only major bitching was about .357 Sig ammo costs, then they would just issue out .40 S&W barrels and Taa Daaaahhhh Easy caliber change over. .40 S&W and .357 sig I can find on the ammo shelves every day and compared to prices for .45 and 9mm (when it can be found) seem very comparable. Don't see .357 ammo costs being a huge factor, especially considering the cost of the Sigs (not cheap) they bought and issued. that said, are they going to be better off with a 9mm, since finding 9mm ball or self defense rounds is like a winning lottery ticket these days! No one is paying retail. Bulk govt ammo cost for 9mm practice is around $6 a box. .40 is about the same. Bulk practice ammo for .357 Sig is $13 a box. I don't really call that "comparable" I wish we could pay Texas prices. I just ordered ammo for our dept. and we paid about $15 a box for 9mm duty (same price for FMJ so we just get all Ranger 147 duty) and $18 a box for .40 practice ammo and $22 for duty. (all Winchester ammo.) Seriously look at changing suppliers. My old dept recently sent 750K rounds back to the factory, quality control issues. CCI Lawman now. |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 2:58:15 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Haven't seen an official source yet, but I'm hearing from some folks that the M&P testing did not go well and they're sticking with the P226 for now. I'll update with an actual source when one comes out publicly. Until then, feel free to swing Brand purses indiscriminately. This:  led to this and only this: much the same way this: led only to this: Lipstick on a pig... |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 2:59:25 PM EDT
[#26]
I've never had any of those issues with a ton of rounds through my M&P.
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Posted: 4/6/2014 3:01:11 PM EDT
[#27]
^^thank you!!
it seemed like i was the only person that saw that the M&P was just a rejiggered Sigma |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 3:13:09 PM EDT
[#29]
Hmm. Brother just quit DPS last month. Last he heard they were still switching
The new recruits put pallets(literally) of ammo through the guns while in the academy. That is when their pistols prove themselves. Rumor has it that a lead armorer is about to retire, and move to S&W. |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 3:14:11 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
^^thank you!! it seemed like i was the only person that saw that the M&P was just a rejiggered Sigma The only thing an M&P and a sigma share are the color,caliber, and brand name.
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Posted: 4/6/2014 3:32:30 PM EDT
[#31]
With all the threads about changing from .40 to 9mm and Glock to M&P I had a talk with my friend who is a shift supervisor for our City Police Department on what goes into these decisions. He told me it was simply the opinion of 2 people who are in charge of contracts. A couple years ago the two guys in charge loved Glocks, so the department switched from Sigs to Glocks.
The current contract is about to run out and the person in charge now is a Smith & Wesson fan according to him and is pushing for this switch because the grips are smaller for female officers. I asked him why not just get Gen 4's so you can keep the same holsters and everything. His response was "well we've explained that to them but at the end of the day, their Smith fans." I was kinda shocked that such an expensive decision literally came down to 2 guys opinions on what their favorite brand was. |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 3:36:56 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never had any of those issues with a ton of rounds through my M&P. |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 3:42:02 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 4/6/2014 3:42:42 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only thing an M&P and a sigma share are the color,caliber, and brand name. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ^^thank you!! it seemed like i was the only person that saw that the M&P was just a rejiggered Sigma The only thing an M&P and a sigma share are the color,caliber, and brand name. and grip shape/angle, thumb rest, mag release, trigger and trigger bar, locking block, etc. i'm not saying that their identical but you can definitely see that the M&P is a polished up Sigma/SD |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 3:42:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've never had any of those issues with a ton of rounds through my M&P. |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 3:43:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Problems I'm hearing claimed: Failure to feed, failure to eject, and stovepipes. Heaps of troubles out of M&P with the NC Highway Patrol...going back to Sigs according to the rumor. |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 3:43:50 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
^^thank you!! it seemed like i was the only person that saw that the M&P was just a rejiggered Sigma Actually you and everyone else that holds that view show you know about as much about firearms as your average liberal politician and a little less than someone in the media
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Posted: 4/6/2014 3:46:08 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote History[nerd]That is not an M&P, the ORIGINAL M&P is a K-frame with fixed sights and an unshrouded ejector rod, that is an N-frame with adjustable sights and a shrouded ejector rod, probably a model 29.[/nerd] |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 3:49:02 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually you and everyone else that holds that view show you know about as much about firearms as your average liberal politician and a little less than someone in the media Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ^^thank you!! it seemed like i was the only person that saw that the M&P was just a rejiggered Sigma Actually you and everyone else that holds that view show you know about as much about firearms as your average liberal politician and a little less than someone in the media |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 3:50:00 PM EDT
[#42]
Yeah I never had any issues with my M&P45. Sounds like a bunch of BS.
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Posted: 4/6/2014 3:51:44 PM EDT
[#43]
Isn't the Sigma a semicocked striker design like a Glock? the M&P is a fully cocked striker fired pistol.
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Posted: 4/6/2014 3:53:30 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
[nerd]That is not an M&P, the ORIGINAL M&P is a K-frame with fixed sights and an unshrouded ejector rod, that is an N-frame with adjustable sights and a shrouded ejector rod, probably a model 29.[/nerd] Quote HistoryQuoted:
[nerd]That is not an M&P, the ORIGINAL M&P is a K-frame with fixed sights and an unshrouded ejector rod, that is an N-frame with adjustable sights and a shrouded ejector rod, probably a model 29.[/nerd] Actually that is a Model 28 HIGHWAY PATROLMAN
Texas DPS used to carry them back in the day. We raff at your ejection problems!
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Posted: 4/6/2014 3:53:31 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Problems I'm hearing claimed: Failure to feed, failure to eject, and stovepipes. Not surprising. At all. |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 3:53:39 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah I never had any issues with my M&P45. Sounds like a bunch of BS. Both my M&P9s have been flawless |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 3:54:42 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
it might be that non-standard load they were insisting on if true. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Problems I'm hearing claimed: Failure to feed, failure to eject, and stovepipes. Wait. They were switching to Kimber? it might be that non-standard load they were insisting on if true. Jesus, how many examples of failure are you m&p fan boys going to need before you realize that the m&p is junk? |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 3:55:17 PM EDT
[#49]
You all realize that a sample size of one is completely fucking meaningless, right?
I'm glad your personal M&Ps have worked. I haven't put many rounds through mine, but it has run like a top as well. That means jack shit. If a large agency has noticed problems, there's probably an issue. |
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Posted: 4/6/2014 3:57:34 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And what is a ton of rounds, est.? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've never had any of those issues with a ton of rounds through my M&P. I have an M&P40. And a 9mm M&P Barrel. I think I put about 3,000 through it in 9 and a little over a thousand in 40. Not exactly sure how many with 40. I carry it in 40 and shoot maybe 100 rounds every month or so at the range with it, but used it in 9mm for classes. Thinking but I had one FTF at the range with 40, and it was with federal target ammo. Never had an issue with my self defense ammo which is Winchester Ranger 165gr hollow points. Never had an issue with it and 9mm. And I have the 4.25" barrel, no thumb safety or mag disconnect.. |
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