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Posted: 3/15/2014 5:50:44 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
80% lowers themselves aren't the issue here. The plastic ones that are molded around a cavity form that shows you where to mill out are. I don't see how this affects billet 80% lowers at all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So now that the 80% lowers are considered firearms, what's going to happen to the people with un-seralized lowers that they bought without a 4473? 80% lowers themselves aren't the issue here. The plastic ones that are molded around a cavity form that shows you where to mill out are. I don't see how this affects billet 80% lowers at all. Where do you find that that is what is at issue here? |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 5:51:39 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe this has been answered but why does ARES have records of who they sold lowers to? If it's not a firearm, it's just the same as selling any other trinket. Record the amount for tax records and shitcan the names. CC purchases, purchases through website. I imagine there is a paper trail a mile long. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 5:52:18 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryThis shit is just utterly disturbing and sickening. 
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Posted: 3/15/2014 5:52:20 PM EDT
[#4]
The ATF is the scum of the earth. My fuck be upon them all.
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Posted: 3/15/2014 5:53:47 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe this has been answered but why does ARES have records of who they sold lowers to? If it's not a firearm, it's just the same as selling any other trinket. Record the amount for tax records and shitcan the names. And maybe it'll turn out that they did that all along. Just because ATF is seeking a list of names doesn't mean such a list ever existed. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 5:55:39 PM EDT
[#6]
For once I'm actually glad something was overpriced. I've bought two aluminum 80% lowers but no plastic ones because they were way overpriced
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Posted: 3/15/2014 5:59:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where do you find that that is what is at issue here? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So now that the 80% lowers are considered firearms, what's going to happen to the people with un-seralized lowers that they bought without a 4473? 80% lowers themselves aren't the issue here. The plastic ones that are molded around a cavity form that shows you where to mill out are. I don't see how this affects billet 80% lowers at all. Where do you find that that is what is at issue here? The title, the fact that the determination is about specifically the EP poly lower. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 5:59:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Just add little names here and there to the list:
Barak Obama Feinstein Schumer Cuomo. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 6:02:07 PM EDT
[#9]
If the key components of the extortion were:
"Hand us over the stuff/documents or else we're going to bring criminal charges against you and your employees" Does Ares now have some solid ground for suing the fuck out of Todd Nelson? Or how about some State criminal charges of extortion? Assuming they beat the rap that is. I guess I'm talking about stuff that is probably about 2 or 3 years down the road. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 6:04:37 PM EDT
[#10]
Has a crime been committed, other than ATF's existence and arrogance?
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Posted: 3/15/2014 6:05:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Read another thread in the retro section where their saying the ATF is going to raise the Tax Stamp up to $600.00, now 80% lowers are illegal and pretty soon ammunition will only be legal if sold one round at a time.
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Posted: 3/15/2014 6:07:12 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where do you find that that is what is at issue here? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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So now that the 80% lowers are considered firearms, what's going to happen to the people with un-seralized lowers that they bought without a 4473? 80% lowers themselves aren't the issue here. The plastic ones that are molded around a cavity form that shows you where to mill out are. I don't see how this affects billet 80% lowers at all. Where do you find that that is what is at issue here? ...even the EP site is still selling the aluminum ones too. It definitely appears on the surface that the poly lower is the only target at this time. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 6:10:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Read another thread in the retro section where their saying the ATF is going to raise the Tax Stamp up to $600.00, now 80% lowers are illegal and pretty soon ammunition will only be legal if sold one round at a time. Why don't you guys get the fact that this is specifically about poly 80% lowers molded around around a core of different material? The tax stamp I can see. The ammo is pure fantasy. Yes, one specific product has been evaluated and they're going to seek them out. It sucks but this doesn't reasonably imply the end of 80% much less the sky falling completely. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 6:16:29 PM EDT
[#14]
Does anyone know if they did take personal information when selling an 80%? Doesnt seem like they would. Besides the fact they dont need to, the circumstances of the purchase would make it obvious.
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Posted: 3/15/2014 6:19:21 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe this has been answered but why does ARES have records of who they sold lowers to? If it's not a firearm, it's just the same as selling any other trinket. Record the amount for tax records and shitcan the names. Past customers are the most consistent source of future revenue for any company. Just about every website I've ever purchased from continues to send marketing materials to me. And with good reason...I tend to make purchases with the same companies over and over. Why would Ares be different? |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 6:21:18 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Past customers are the most consistent source of future revenue for any company. Just about every website I've ever purchased from continues to send marketing materials to me. And with good reason...I tend to make purchases with the same companies over and over. Why would Ares be different? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Maybe this has been answered but why does ARES have records of who they sold lowers to? If it's not a firearm, it's just the same as selling any other trinket. Record the amount for tax records and shitcan the names. Past customers are the most consistent source of future revenue for any company. Just about every website I've ever purchased from continues to send marketing materials to me. And with good reason...I tend to make purchases with the same companies over and over. Why would Ares be different? So have a mailing list just don't keep a record of who purchased what 
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Posted: 3/15/2014 6:23:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Like to see the affidavit for the search warrant.
Of course, I am not a fan of the ATF so I'm pretty bias here. I think it is the most tyrannical agency since the Schutzstaffel. In the United States there has never been a Federal Agency as adversarial toward its own citizens and I include the IRS in that statement. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 6:28:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So have a mailing list just don't keep a record of who purchased what
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Maybe this has been answered but why does ARES have records of who they sold lowers to? If it's not a firearm, it's just the same as selling any other trinket. Record the amount for tax records and shitcan the names. Past customers are the most consistent source of future revenue for any company. Just about every website I've ever purchased from continues to send marketing materials to me. And with good reason...I tend to make purchases with the same companies over and over. Why would Ares be different? So have a mailing list just don't keep a record of who purchased what
That may be what you want, but businesses want DATA. That includes what types of items you purchase. It allows them to better market items to you in the future. Unless anonymity was claimed by Ares I would assume customers are being tracked by their computer system in some sense...just like every other trinket that's purchased these days. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 6:37:08 PM EDT
[#19]
ahhhhhhh hell u went there with the F word!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Y is she still around dinosaurs are dead y isn't she?????????? we need to figure out how to evict her from office
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Posted: 3/15/2014 6:43:09 PM EDT
[#20]
Dont u tnhik u wouldn't b on any list unless u used a credit card or signed up for there email or something like that???? Im screwed both ways OOO well!!!!!!! I live like 2 miles from EP Armory gonna go down there today put my name on the list a few more times
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Posted: 3/15/2014 6:49:58 PM EDT
[#21]
Does the fact that the 80% polymers don't work make a difference in the whole thing? I mean, go look at the forums on EP's own website. None of the markings or take-down holes line up. Unless you were that one lucky guy who got one that worked it was basically good for nothing but an overpriced paperweight.
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Posted: 3/15/2014 6:50:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Read another thread in the retro section where their saying the ATF is going to raise the Tax Stamp up to $600.00, now 80% lowers are illegal and pretty soon ammunition will only be legal if sold one round at a time. How would they up it to $600 unless actually changing the law as it was written? http://twitter.com/search?q=ares%20armor&src=tyah |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 6:52:56 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does anyone know if they did take personal information when selling an 80%? Doesnt seem like they would. Besides the fact they dont need to, the circumstances of the purchase would make it obvious. Ever fill out an online credit card purchase? Of course they have ALL that data. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 6:53:25 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cav arms got themselves into trouble w/ stupidity from what I understand. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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CAV went through several rounds of this silliness back in the day. There was the incident where the serial number plate wasn't affixed well enough. Then there was the thing where only the right mould or the left mould could be at the plastics plant. Etc. ...and where did it get them? Note: I'm not saying anything other than "If the BATFE wants to shut you down, they *will* find a way to do it". Cav arms got themselves into trouble w/ stupidity from what I understand. Stupidity is not against the law. It might be stupid to say "Screw the unconstitutional BATFE JBTs!" in a room full of BATFE agents... yet it would not be illegal to do so, nor would your expression be untruthful.
It wasn't directly due to the polymer receivers, but that may have been what brought the heat down on them for what they did do. The shenanigans regarding the classification of the lower are what ultimately shut Cav down, whether or not it was part of the initial justification for the raid and seizure. As far as the rest, and as far as I'm concerned, Shawn took one for the team. I'll keep the rest of my opinion to myself. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 6:56:29 PM EDT
[#25]
So how can they legally raid the place if their is an order for a judge to wait?
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Posted: 3/15/2014 6:57:31 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like to see the affidavit for the search warrant. Of course, I am not a fan of the ATF so I'm pretty bias here. I think it is the most tyrannical agency since the Schutzstaffel. In the United States there has never been a Federal Agency as adversarial toward its own citizens and I include the IRS in that statement. I am searching for the warrant and will post it ASAP. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 7:38:25 PM EDT
[#27]
"Crime is contagious. If the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy."
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Posted: 3/15/2014 7:45:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am searching for the warrant and will post it ASAP. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Like to see the affidavit for the search warrant. Of course, I am not a fan of the ATF so I'm pretty bias here. I think it is the most tyrannical agency since the Schutzstaffel. In the United States there has never been a Federal Agency as adversarial toward its own citizens and I include the IRS in that statement. I am searching for the warrant and will post it ASAP. Is it a new warrant or just a creative interpretation of existing docs? http://www.examiner.com/article/atf-accuses-ares-armor-of-illegal-gun-sales-response-to-restraining-order The court’s order was in response to a Friday Department of Justice "ex parte application for order (1)) extending injunction to prevent divestment of subject matter of temporary restraining order, and (2) clarifying that temporary restraining order does not restrain lawful criminal proceedings.” In it, U.S. Attorneys maintain ATF "is conducting a lawful criminal investigation of the illegal manufacture, distribution, sale, and possession of AR-15 variant lower receivers” and allege Ares Armor "is in possession of approximately 6,000 ... unserialized AR-15 lower receivers. Further, Ares Armor is not a federal firearms licensee, so it cannot legally engage in the business of dealing firearms, let alone ones that do not bear the required manufacturer’s mark and serial number.” |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 7:49:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dont u tnhik u wouldn't b on any list unless u used a credit card or signed up for there email or something like that???? Im screwed both ways OOO well!!!!!!! I live like 2 miles from EP Armory gonna go down there today put my name on the list a few more times English Motherfucker. Do you speak it? 
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Posted: 3/15/2014 8:06:27 PM EDT
[#30]
source reporting Ares is being raided right now.
more info here http://monderno.com/news/atf-executes-search-warrants-ares-armor/ |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 8:07:50 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it a new warrant or just a creative interpretation of existing docs? http://www.examiner.com/article/atf-accuses-ares-armor-of-illegal-gun-sales-response-to-restraining-order The court’s order was in response to a Friday Department of Justice "ex parte application for order (1)) extending injunction to prevent divestment of subject matter of temporary restraining order, and (2) clarifying that temporary restraining order does not restrain lawful criminal proceedings.” In it, U.S. Attorneys maintain ATF "is conducting a lawful criminal investigation of the illegal manufacture, distribution, sale, and possession of AR-15 variant lower receivers” and allege Ares Armor "is in possession of approximately 6,000 ... unserialized AR-15 lower receivers. Further, Ares Armor is not a federal firearms licensee, so it cannot legally engage in the business of dealing firearms, let alone ones that do not bear the required manufacturer’s mark and serial number.” Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Like to see the affidavit for the search warrant. Of course, I am not a fan of the ATF so I'm pretty bias here. I think it is the most tyrannical agency since the Schutzstaffel. In the United States there has never been a Federal Agency as adversarial toward its own citizens and I include the IRS in that statement. I am searching for the warrant and will post it ASAP. Is it a new warrant or just a creative interpretation of existing docs? http://www.examiner.com/article/atf-accuses-ares-armor-of-illegal-gun-sales-response-to-restraining-order The court’s order was in response to a Friday Department of Justice "ex parte application for order (1)) extending injunction to prevent divestment of subject matter of temporary restraining order, and (2) clarifying that temporary restraining order does not restrain lawful criminal proceedings.” In it, U.S. Attorneys maintain ATF "is conducting a lawful criminal investigation of the illegal manufacture, distribution, sale, and possession of AR-15 variant lower receivers” and allege Ares Armor "is in possession of approximately 6,000 ... unserialized AR-15 lower receivers. Further, Ares Armor is not a federal firearms licensee, so it cannot legally engage in the business of dealing firearms, let alone ones that do not bear the required manufacturer’s mark and serial number.” It's a warrant. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 8:08:13 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: David Codrea is reporting Ares is being raided right now. more info here http://monderno.com/news/atf-executes-search-warrants-ares-armor/ |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 8:09:35 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why don't you guys get the fact that this is specifically about poly 80% lowers molded around around a core of different material? The tax stamp I can see. The ammo is pure fantasy. Yes, one specific product has been evaluated and they're going to seek them out. It sucks but this doesn't reasonably imply the end of 80% much less the sky falling completely. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Read another thread in the retro section where their saying the ATF is going to raise the Tax Stamp up to $600.00, now 80% lowers are illegal and pretty soon ammunition will only be legal if sold one round at a time. Why don't you guys get the fact that this is specifically about poly 80% lowers molded around around a core of different material? The tax stamp I can see. The ammo is pure fantasy. Yes, one specific product has been evaluated and they're going to seek them out. It sucks but this doesn't reasonably imply the end of 80% much less the sky falling completely. Wow, you see whats going on, and you cannot see the motherfuckin sky IS motherfuckin falling??? The ATF can arbitrarily just say something is illegal, and go on a fishing expedition for those who purchased it under the assumption it was and should be perfectly legal, and you are ok with it... The tax stamp you can see??? Man, just don't know what to say...You realize the "tax stamp" was just a way to prevent the average joe from purchasing firearms, right? Back when it was enacted, $200 was a hell of a sum of money...so I guess you are cool with jacking it up to the point where no one can afford one again, right? With friends like you...as the saying goes... |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 8:20:52 PM EDT
[#34]
Time to change the thread title from "trying to" to "just done did".
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Posted: 3/15/2014 8:24:30 PM EDT
[#35]
Even if the charges are dropped and data returned, they just needed the "list" long enough to copy.
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Posted: 3/15/2014 8:47:50 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even if the charges are dropped and data returned, they just needed the "list" long enough to copy. and it's not just folks who bought the plastic lowers, it's all of their customers. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 8:49:07 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even if the charges are dropped and data returned, they just needed the "list" long enough to copy. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 9:34:36 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has a crime been committed, other than ATF's existence and arrogance? No...
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Posted: 3/15/2014 9:42:40 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: source reporting Ares is being raided right now. more info here http://monderno.com/news/atf-executes-search-warrants-ares-armor/ Unbelievable... So ATF can ignore court orders?
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Posted: 3/15/2014 9:48:46 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Replace the block of plastic with a pile of plastic feedstock pellets for a plastic injection mold. One thing I'd like to try, long term, is use a 3D printer to make a casting pattern for an aluminum plastic injection mold. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How long before they come for these? http://pimpmybrew.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/aluminium_block.jpg http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/f3/f3a50e4c-7978-4484-9223-a60f417f7c83_300.jpg Replace the block of plastic with a pile of plastic feedstock pellets for a plastic injection mold. One thing I'd like to try, long term, is use a 3D printer to make a casting pattern for an aluminum plastic injection mold. Now there's an idea! I do want to buy a makerbot... |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 9:49:24 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unbelievable... So ATF can ignore court orders? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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source reporting Ares is being raided right now. more info here http://monderno.com/news/atf-executes-search-warrants-ares-armor/ Unbelievable... So ATF can ignore court orders? Court specifically said ATF could use a warrant. Not saying it's right, but this was obviously in the cards. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 9:58:37 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
and it's not just folks who bought the plastic lowers, it's all of their customers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Even if the charges are dropped and data returned, they just needed the "list" long enough to copy. and it's not just folks who bought the plastic lowers, it's all of their customers. just got my stuff from them the other day, ill be at the top of the list. i have 3 dogs! 
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Posted: 3/15/2014 10:02:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
in that case, it should be open and shut as a non-functional firearm Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm confused what the ATF is saying this company is doing wrong.... The 80% recievers are illegal because they give you instructions how to drill them out? No. they are saying that the poly lowers are manufactured as a firearm first then the FCG pocket is filled in after, which is true, but the FCG pocket is ribbed to a point where it is non-functional. The different colored poly just shows you where to mill. Even if it was not there, the lower is not, and never was functional The CEO says the white part is made first and the rest made around it so it is never even close to being a firearm. in that case, it should be open and shut as a non-functional firearm This would not be the first time that a 3-letter agency knowingly went after someone with a case built around statements that are factually incorrect. Let's be realistic here; the ATF is governed by 2 principles: 1. What it wants to do 2. What it thinks it can get away with Note there there is no "3. The letter and intent of any law or the Constitution" in that list. A solid block of material is a solid block of material, and as long as it did not exist as a lower at any point, that's all there is to it. Some parts being a different color than other parts is irrelevant. Fuck the ATF. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 10:03:26 PM EDT
[#44]
I would seriously want to set up multiple cameras with audio automatically uploading to cloud if I were ares or their customer.
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Posted: 3/15/2014 10:06:14 PM EDT
[#45]
For those dedicated to protecting our rights and freedoms, I'd recommend you pay attention. The bigger battle is right here at home.
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Posted: 3/15/2014 10:07:53 PM EDT
[#46]
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BATF are the real criminals. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 10:10:54 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For those dedicated to protecting our rights and freedoms, I'd recommend you pay attention. The bigger battle is right here at home. this. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 10:22:35 PM EDT
[#48]
while this is utter BS and the govt thugs should pay, who in their right mind buys a crappy plastic 80% lower?
ETA and I own a real 80% lower. |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 10:25:36 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
while this is utter BS and the govt thugs should pay, who in their right mind buys a crappy plastic 80% lower? ETA and I own a real 80% lower. A guy with $35 and a shitty .22 upper laying around |
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Posted: 3/15/2014 10:51:47 PM EDT
[#50]
Well, not only do they now have the names of everyone who bought an EP lower, but the names of everyone who bought anything at all from Ares
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