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CharlieR
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Posted: 2/15/2014 12:02:48 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Originally Posted By CharlieR:
Absolutely.

This is an 81mm, which means it isnt that common. It is a battalion level weapon. Some observer with a little bit of authority in the corporation probably saw a mob of a dozen FSA all bunched up and rather than fire an AK thought that this was a good mortar target. That's why trained troops spread out and move in small groups.

If you wound the first guy it usually slows them down as they do casevac and firing a couple more rounds can really ruin their day. Yodeling over a corpse when the mortar crew has the deflection and the range is a bad idea, if you are concerned about longevity.

A good 81mm crew can fire about 6-10 rounds in a minute. Simple as dropping the round down the pipe. If it took brains they wouldnt let the infantry have it.

Maybe the shooters were short of ammo. Perhaps they saw these guys walk through gap in the wall and just lobbed one blind over the building.


dude.
none of that shit applies in syria.


Dude,

Sure as hell does.

Go back to the video, and then click on the long version. The 44 minute one.
Not a lot of high explosive flying around.
Go to the 40 minute mark. Watch the last five minutes or so and look at the context of what is going on. These guys are walking down a road, with a wall with gaps in it to their right. They are running through the gaps as if they think they are observed from the Syrian Army psns. They run behind a building, the nice shiny SUV came in from the other direction, and someone lobbed an 81mm into the crowd. My guess is a black SUV may not be that common in Aleppo and it drew some fire.

If all you did was watch the two minute video, yeah, I get your POV.
Doesnt take a PhD in astrophysics to save your ammo until you get a good target.
Didnt sound in the 44 min video that there was a lot of mortar fire in this engagement.
Sylvan
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Posted: 2/15/2014 12:26:22 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By CharlieR:
Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Originally Posted By CharlieR:
Absolutely.

This is an 81mm, which means it isnt that common. It is a battalion level weapon. Some observer with a little bit of authority in the corporation probably saw a mob of a dozen FSA all bunched up and rather than fire an AK thought that this was a good mortar target. That's why trained troops spread out and move in small groups. 81mm mortar is what an 81mm mortar team has. This could be as common as 10 per company or 1 per division. Its like saying a PKM is a platoon level weapon. It simply is. You can't match the weapon to some imaginary sized unit probably not even in use.

If you wound the first guy it usually slows them down as they do casevac and firing a couple more rounds can really ruin their day. Yodeling over a corpse when the mortar crew has the deflection and the range is a bad idea, if you are concerned about longevity. So how many rounds were fired? Maybe they know they fire one and thats it. Sure seems like thats what happened.

A good 81mm crew can fire about 6-10 rounds in a minute. And clearly they weren't dealing with that, again, did that like like an FFE? Simple as dropping the round down the pipe. If it took brains they wouldnt let the infantry have it.

Maybe the shooters were short of ammo. Perhaps they saw these guys walk through gap in the wall and just lobbed one blind over the building.

ds.Or maybe it was In'Sh allah. However, the failure to unsass the impact area clearly didn't matter as there was no follow on rounds


dude.
none of that shit applies in syria.


Dude,

Sure as hell does.

Go back to the video, and then click on the long version. The 44 minute one.
Not a lot of high explosive flying around.
Go to the 40 minute mark. Watch the last five minutes or so and look at the context of what is going on. These guys are walking down a road, with a wall with gaps in it to their right. They are running through the gaps as if they think they are observed from the Syrian Army psns. They run behind a building, the nice shiny SUV came in from the other direction, and someone lobbed an 81mm into the crowd. My guess is a black SUV may not be that common in Aleppo and it drew some fire.

If all you did was watch the two minute video, yeah, I get your POV.
Doesnt take a PhD in astrophysics to save your ammo until you get a good target.
Didnt sound in the 44 min video that there was a lot of mortar fire in this engagement.

Mister_H
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Posted: 2/15/2014 12:43:36 PM
Go back to indirect fires school.

The Syrian Army uses Russian 82mm mortars.
ArmyInfantryVet
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Posted: 2/15/2014 12:44:55 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Mister_H:
Go back to indirect fires school.

The Syrian Army uses Russian 82mm mortars.

That was in the back of my mind. I was very skeptical that Syrians use 81s.
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Posted: 2/15/2014 12:50:21 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:
Originally Posted By Mister_H:
Go back to indirect fires school.

The Syrian Army uses Russian 82mm mortars.

That was in the back of my mind. I was very skeptical that Syrians use 81s.


The Russians have 50mm, 82mm, and 120mm mortar systems.

There is a Chinese version of our 60mm system which may be over there, I'm not sure.
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Posted: 2/15/2014 1:00:37 PM
Another one bites the dust
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Posted: 2/15/2014 1:16:57 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Mister_H:
Go back to indirect fires school.

The Syrian Army uses Russian 82mm mortars.


That's what I figure. Probably don't have variable fuzes. Again, either a totally lucky direct lay or that was a RP and I seriously doubt that.
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Posted: 2/15/2014 1:18:57 PM
I could watch these videos ALL DAY LONG.
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Posted: 2/15/2014 2:24:22 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By cmca:
Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
its amazing how this crappy poor areas are always full of expensive new cars.


Kinda like the hood in any American city.


Oakland 2020 AD....
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Posted: 2/15/2014 2:28:42 PM
[Last Edit: 2/15/2014 2:29:08 PM by NWhiker]
Notice how when Achmed died the first thing his battle buddy did was mount him and tried to fuck him.
What part of London is this anyway? Looks filthy.
There really are 72 virgins when you get to Allahland. What they don't tell you is there is 72 total, so when you blow yourself up you have to wait on line.
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Posted: 2/15/2014 2:29:09 PM
ya, looks like the back end of the car (and his head) took direct blast damage. I think a nother mortar hits a couple seconds before the video ends.
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Posted: 2/16/2014 12:51:20 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By JacksSmirkingRevenge:
I could watch these videos ALL DAY LONG.

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Posted: 2/16/2014 12:57:47 AM
Another dead snackbar, ahhhhhhhhhh!!
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Posted: 2/16/2014 1:16:49 AM
Assad should invite that mortar crew over to his house for dinner.
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Posted: 2/16/2014 1:44:03 AM
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Posted: 2/16/2014 2:44:27 AM
Those mortar frags were inshallah as fuck. Someone pressed the "smite" button.
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Posted: 2/16/2014 4:56:06 AM
Too bad it wasn't to the left about 100'.
CharlieR
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Posted: 2/16/2014 8:03:36 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Originally Posted By CharlieR:
Originally Posted By Sylvan:
Originally Posted By CharlieR:
Absolutely.

This is an 81mm, which means it isnt that common. It is a battalion level weapon. Some observer with a little bit of authority in the corporation probably saw a mob of a dozen FSA all bunched up and rather than fire an AK thought that this was a good mortar target. That's why trained troops spread out and move in small groups. 81mm mortar is what an 81mm mortar team has. This could be as common as 10 per company or 1 per division. Its like saying a PKM is a platoon level weapon. It simply is. You can't match the weapon to some imaginary sized unit probably not even in use.

If you wound the first guy it usually slows them down as they do casevac and firing a couple more rounds can really ruin their day. Yodeling over a corpse when the mortar crew has the deflection and the range is a bad idea, if you are concerned about longevity. So how many rounds were fired? Maybe they know they fire one and thats it. Sure seems like thats what happened.

A good 81mm crew can fire about 6-10 rounds in a minute. And clearly they weren't dealing with that, again, did that like like an FFE? Simple as dropping the round down the pipe. If it took brains they wouldnt let the infantry have it.

Maybe the shooters were short of ammo. Perhaps they saw these guys walk through gap in the wall and just lobbed one blind over the building.

ds.Or maybe it was In'Sh allah. However, the failure to unsass the impact area clearly didn't matter as there was no follow on rounds


dude.
none of that shit applies in syria.


Dude,

Sure as hell does.

Go back to the video, and then click on the long version. The 44 minute one.
Not a lot of high explosive flying around.
Go to the 40 minute mark. Watch the last five minutes or so and look at the context of what is going on. These guys are walking down a road, with a wall with gaps in it to their right. They are running through the gaps as if they think they are observed from the Syrian Army psns. They run behind a building, the nice shiny SUV came in from the other direction, and someone lobbed an 81mm into the crowd. My guess is a black SUV may not be that common in Aleppo and it drew some fire.

If all you did was watch the two minute video, yeah, I get your POV.
Doesnt take a PhD in astrophysics to save your ammo until you get a good target.
Didnt sound in the 44 min video that there was a lot of mortar fire in this engagement.




You usually have some really good things to post on this board, but right now you are mailing it in.


81mm mortar is what an 81mm mortar team has. This could be as common as 10 per company or 1 per division. Its like saying a PKM is a platoon level weapon. It simply is. You can't match the weapon to some imaginary sized unit probably not even in use


That is not an accurate statement.

The Syrian Arab Army is modeled after the Soviet Army. They have an estimated 200 PM-37 82mm mortars, whch are Russian models based on the French 81mm Brandt.Two minutes of google-fu will lead you here:

http://www.armyrecognition.com/syria_syrian_army_military_land_ground_forces_uk/syria_syrian_army_land_ground_armed_forces_military_equipment_armored_vehicle_intelligence_pictures.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipment_of_the_Syrian_Army
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Army

Syrian Army has about a dozen mech infantry brigades. 200 82mms mean these weapons are about as common in the Syrian Army as they are in the US Army, or most other regular armies. This is straight IPB. If you think they have been resupplied and are running 10 82mms per company, please show proof as to who thinks that.

Whether it was a random shot or not, doesn't matter because we will never know the answer. Why you think the Syrian army can't handle a task like this is your call. We can agree to disgree. Really not that big a deal. The rarity of an 82mm should tell you if this was random, it was very much so.
Sylvan
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Posted: 2/16/2014 8:22:00 AM
I know their OOB.
That is not how they are fighting.
They aren't using standard anything at this point.
Was that Hez b'allah? syrian national defense force or one of the other dozen plus identified pro-assad militias?
Using cold war era IPB with 1:50,000 opfor templates is sofa king.

Again, if you want to apply regular army standards, you have a mortar team which successfully identified a HVT target with multiple MAMs ranged them and engaged successfully first round on target.

and then stopped firing after one round.

no normal mortar team is going to do that.

you can say I am mailing it in, but the facts of the video don't back up your assertion, but they support mine.
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Posted: 2/16/2014 8:34:02 AM
good shot. but could have been better
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Posted: 2/16/2014 8:42:38 AM
[Last Edit: 2/16/2014 9:20:33 AM by thatguywiththeak]
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Radian:
yeah wow on the bursting radius. So if you are walking around and that drops near by its just your time? vehicle windows look intact.

My guess is that this guy took a piece of shrapnel in the back of the head. There's a reason why helmets are the most important piece of body armor there is.
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Posted: 2/16/2014 9:05:28 AM
So where did these goat fuckers get the multicam from?
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Posted: 2/16/2014 9:17:34 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Mister_H:
Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet:
Originally Posted By Mister_H:
Go back to indirect fires school.

The Syrian Army uses Russian 82mm mortars.

That was in the back of my mind. I was very skeptical that Syrians use 81s.


The Russians have 50mm, 82mm, and 120mm mortar systems.

There is a Chinese version of our 60mm system which may be over there, I'm not sure.

The Iranians have a domestically produced 81mm mortar IIRC. It may be in use there, but it was probably a Russian 82mm if it was an 80mm class mortar. I guess it could be a NATO standard 81mm though given all the shit finding its way to Syria however.
EvanWilliams
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Posted: 2/16/2014 9:18:17 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By dpmmn:
So where did these goat fuckers get the multicam from?


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Posted: 2/16/2014 9:22:21 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By dpmmn:
So where did these goat fuckers get the multicam from?

I would assume the internet, same as the rest of us. If it makes you feel any better there is a good chance that a lot of their gear is probably chinese knock off crap with shitty Russian inserts (if any) shoved into it.
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Posted: 2/16/2014 9:25:24 AM
Bump
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Posted: 2/16/2014 10:05:18 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By SGL_Shooter:
Drop 10, fire for effect...


Never use an increment less than 50, your mortar crew will just laugh at you.
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Posted: 2/16/2014 10:36:01 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
its amazing how this crappy poor areas are always full of expensive new cars.


I was thinking the same thing.....
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Posted: 2/16/2014 10:46:50 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Seastate:
A barrage would have been more gooder than one round.
Allah did not will a time on target fire mission.
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Posted: 2/16/2014 11:16:03 AM
HA!
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Posted: 2/16/2014 11:19:15 AM
[Last Edit: 2/16/2014 11:20:01 AM by MonkTx]
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Berzerker77:
Originally Posted By SGL_Shooter:
Drop 10, fire for effect...


Never use an increment less than 50, your mortar crew will just laugh at you.


Let me guess because- because less than 50 is within the random dispersal size of the mortars rounds? (I don't know what they call it, I worked on radars in the army)

What are these increments anyway? Mils, meters...?
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Posted: 2/16/2014 11:26:44 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Aw, man, just a little closer...

This. And about 5 more rounds.
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Posted: 2/16/2014 11:38:14 AM
[Last Edit: 2/16/2014 11:40:16 AM by Angel_King]
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By MonkTx:
Originally Posted By Berzerker77:
Originally Posted By SGL_Shooter:
Drop 10, fire for effect...


Never use an increment less than 50, your mortar crew will just laugh at you.


Let me guess because- because less than 50 is within the random dispersal size of the mortars rounds? (I don't know what they call it, I worked on radars in the army)

What are these increments anyway? Mils, meters...?


Deflection( left,right) is in mills and is no less that 30 the range( add,drop) is in meters.

ETA: well you can call in smaller increments but that's to register or a destruction mission.
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Posted: 2/16/2014 11:40:55 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Berzerker77:
Originally Posted By SGL_Shooter:
Drop 10, fire for effect...


Never use an increment less than 50, your mortar crew will just laugh at you.

Vindication.
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Posted: 2/16/2014 11:43:27 AM


SUVs were never intended to absorb/delfect fragmentation projectiles.
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Posted: 2/16/2014 11:47:42 AM
[Last Edit: 2/16/2014 12:02:27 PM by BillofRights]
Chechens huh? GOOD MORTARING!

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Fucking OP arty ruins everything.
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Posted: 2/16/2014 1:42:33 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Sylvan:
I know their OOB.
That is not how they are fighting.
They aren't using standard anything at this point.
Was that Hez b'allah? syrian national defense force or one of the other dozen plus identified pro-assad militias?
Using cold war era IPB with 1:50,000 opfor templates is sofa king.

Again, if you want to apply regular army standards, you have a mortar team which successfully identified a HVT target with multiple MAMs ranged them and engaged successfully first round on target.

and then stopped firing after one round.

no normal mortar team is going to do that.

you can say I am mailing it in, but the facts of the video don't back up your assertion, but they support mine.


What are you asserting, precisely? Yesterday you said there could be as many as ten 82mms in a company. Or one in a division. Seeing as they used to be 200 in the whole Army, yeah, I am saying the idea of that assertion is false. I dont know of a whole lot of terrorist or irregular units that have bigger indirect fire TO&Es then regular army. Do you?

I am saying there were not that many mortars on the SAA side. I assume they dont have the resupply of a US unit. They saw 10-15 pax moving from left to right. Two SUVs moving right to left. All met behind a building. From the camera angles that could have been dead space. The mortar crew did an inshallah and fired one round, looks like deflection was good but range was long. They had no way to adjust and didnt FFE and left it at that. If they had been luckier and guessed better they could have dropped it a little shorter. As it was they inshalla'd a frag into this HVTs head. I do not think this was H&I, as 82mms arent common, and they werent throwing alot of rounds around in the course of this 44 min vid. It was lucky but not totally random.

Im not sure what you are asserting other than this is Syria and it is just random as rules dont apply.

We probably arent disagreeing about all that much. Cant really prove or disprove much of anything, so its not that interesting a topic.



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Posted: 2/16/2014 1:50:19 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By MonkTx:
Originally Posted By Berzerker77:
Originally Posted By SGL_Shooter:
Drop 10, fire for effect...


Never use an increment less than 50, your mortar crew will just laugh at you.


Let me guess because- because less than 50 is within the random dispersal size of the mortars rounds? (I don't know what they call it, I worked on radars in the army)

What are these increments anyway? Mils, meters...?


Meters, and it's an area weapon. If you're less than 50 meters from where you want it to hit you just FFE and the spread will get them.
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Posted: 2/16/2014 1:53:11 PM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By CharlieR:
Originally Posted By Sylvan:
I know their OOB.
That is not how they are fighting.
They aren't using standard anything at this point.
Was that Hez b'allah? syrian national defense force or one of the other dozen plus identified pro-assad militias?
Using cold war era IPB with 1:50,000 opfor templates is sofa king.

Again, if you want to apply regular army standards, you have a mortar team which successfully identified a HVT target with multiple MAMs ranged them and engaged successfully first round on target.

and then stopped firing after one round.

no normal mortar team is going to do that.

you can say I am mailing it in, but the facts of the video don't back up your assertion, but they support mine.


What are you asserting, precisely? Yesterday you said there could be as many as ten 82mms in a company. Or one in a division. Seeing as they used to be 200 in the whole Army, yeah, I am saying the idea of that assertion is false. I dont know of a whole lot of terrorist or irregular units that have bigger indirect fire TO&Es then regular army. Do you?

I am saying there were not that many mortars on the SAA side. I assume they dont have the resupply of a US unit. They saw 10-15 pax moving from left to right. Two SUVs moving right to left. All met behind a building. From the camera angles that could have been dead space. The mortar crew did an inshallah and fired one round, looks like deflection was good but range was long. They had no way to adjust and didnt FFE and left it at that. If they had been luckier and guessed better they could have dropped it a little shorter. As it was they inshalla'd a frag into this HVTs head. I do not think this was H&I, as 82mms arent common, and they werent throwing alot of rounds around in the course of this 44 min vid. It was lucky but not totally random.

Im not sure what you are asserting other than this is Syria and it is just random as rules dont apply.

We probably arent disagreeing about all that much. Cant really prove or disprove much of anything, so its not that interesting a topic.




Your point that 82mm is a bn level asset.
it could well be a squad level asset with how the syrians are operating.
standard MTOEs and OOB are notwithstanding in Syria.
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Posted: 2/17/2014 6:58:08 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Sylvan:
wear your ballistic inserts, kids.


I don't know why, but I lol'd.

I want to see you walk into the frame like a PSA.
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Posted: 2/17/2014 7:01:39 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By raven:
Someday they'll buy helmets.


The funny thing was that during the Bosnian War, the thing the Bosnians were most desiring were helmets due to deaths/injuries from frag.

Honey badger Chechen says helmets are for soft bitch-ass puss....ah...I'm running into the light!
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Posted: 2/17/2014 7:36:17 AM
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Originally Posted By theskuh:
Why are they blacking out faces?


So they won't lose their jobs at the 7-11.



Gee O_P im sooooo glad I chose to take a big slurp of coffee right before I got to your post. Now I gotta change work shirts and clean my monitor and keyboard. Thanks!

On a related note, that's the funniest post of the week for sure.
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