User Panel
Posted: 8/22/2013 1:21:41 PM EDT
Hope this isn't a dup but I couldn't find anything on it yet. "The Obama administration is working to close a loophole in the nation’s gun laws that allows for some machine guns and sawed-off shotguns to be sold without the buyer submitting fingerprints or photographs." |
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Hope this isn't a dup but I couldn't find anything on it yet. NFA Trusts "The Obama administration is working to close a loophole in the nation’s gun laws that allows for some machine guns and sawed-off shotguns to be sold without the buyer submitting fingerprints or photographs." View Quote fucking great. I JUST spent $400 on a trust. |
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Loophole = Freedom.
Everyone was completely aware of how the process would work when the rules were originally drafted. Oh well, at least all these gangbangers won't be able to go out and make a Quicken trust so they can pay $15000 for a machine gun legally anymore. |
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Sounds fine and dandy till the Chief of Police decides he doesn't want to sign of on it, then what ? Sounds like an excuse to prevent anymore forms submitted to be approved.
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NFATCA and Gemtech posted that on facebook earlier.
FUCK THAT SHIT |
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Honestly I'm surprised the trust "loophole" wasn't closed years ago. It's not like Uncle Sam to leave a barn door like that open for so long.
I don't have a dog in this race; state doesn't allow NFA. Nor does my checking account. |
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Sounds fine and dandy till the Chief of Police decides he doesn't want to sign of on it, then what ? Sounds like an excuse to prevent anymore forms submitted to be approved. View Quote I haven't read anything on it recently, but part of the whole rule review thing was supposed to be the elimination of the CLEO signoff. Don't know if that's a part of what's being referenced in the article. |
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FUCK my local sheriff is a dick
ETA:I have read it again thanks to SandWMandP15Tee I was retarded on not reading the whole thing |
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However, an online notice said that it will require "responsible persons” designated by the legal trusts to submit forms, photographs and fingerprints to the ATF and forwarded to the local chief police officer. The rule will also define the term "responsible person.” The new rule will only apply to sale of machine guns, silencers and similar firearms for which the AFT has special restrictions. According to reports, the number of applications to transfer restricted guns to trusts has skyrocketed in the recent years, to more than 39,000 last year. The REAL reason why they want to implement this new legislature. |
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Is there actual legislation on this horseshit? Or is he just going to will this "loophole" away? We need to contact lawmakers and tell them NO.
I know this is preaching to the choir, but what criminal is going to make a trust, pay 15000 for a MG, then wait 8 months for the stamp. Yeah, it's for the children, pick up that can. |
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Quoted: FUCK my local sheriff is a dick View Quote
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Sounds like they're bringing the rules for trusts in line with the rules for individual transfers. It would still make sense to buy thingson a trust, that way you don't need a Form 5 to pass it on to your heirs.
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Is there actual legislation on this horseshit? Or is he just going to will this "loophole" away? We need to contact lawmakers and tell them NO. I know this is preaching to the choir, but what criminal is going to make a trust, pay 15000 for a MG, then wait 8 months for the stamp. Yeah, it's for the children, pick up that can. View Quote Basically the ATF gets to make up rules as they go. |
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Basically the ATF gets to make up rules as they go. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Is there actual legislation on this horseshit? Or is he just going to will this "loophole" away? We need to contact lawmakers and tell them NO. I know this is preaching to the choir, but what criminal is going to make a trust, pay 15000 for a MG, then wait 8 months for the stamp. Yeah, it's for the children, pick up that can. Basically the ATF gets to make up rules as they go. FBHO and FTATF. |
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Old news. This has been in the works for awhile. You will have to submit prints with the trust and the CLEO signoff will go away for the individual route.
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So how are we to go about this new e-file setup? If trusts have to have fingerprints and CLEO they won't work right?
From what I understand, that's why individual Forms can't be e-filed at this time. |
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It doesn't require you to obtain approval from the Chief of Police, just lets him know. So lets say he decides to drop by one day with the local SRT team to make sure everything is in order.
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I wonder if such rule changes would stand a court challenge. SC gave 'personhood' to corporations in 1888 or so. The unintended consequence of changing such rules willy nilly may prove interesting.
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Hope this isn't a dup but I couldn't find anything on it yet. NFA Trusts "The Obama administration is working to close a loophole in the nation’s gun laws that allows for some machine guns and sawed-off shotguns to be sold without the buyer submitting fingerprints or photographs." View Quote Just contacted my attorney about the matter last week, there is a pretty informative publication on the topic coming out of UF law this week or next week that should shed some light on what we have to do. I'm holding off doing anything for another week or so, then it will be a rush to try to get everything submitted before they start mucking with things |
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meh seems like a zero sum gain
Most people just set up trusts because the CLEO in their area won't sign anyway |
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I wonder if such rule changes would stand a court challenge. SC gave 'personhood' to corporations in 1888 or so. The unintended consequence of changing such rules willy nilly may prove interesting. View Quote Ihope if this goes down, that it opens the whole NFA to a lawsuit. How do you make a person responsible for a corporation. The corporation exists beyond any individual. What happens when that person quits? I realize those trusts are different, but legally they are the same. |
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What will happen with existing trusts? If I had a trust setup this week and then submitted a form 1 right after would it still be ok?
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Some of the best firearms advice I ever got was to purchase my NFA items as an individual, not through a trust.
I got lucky with a CLEO that signs off no questions asked, excepting a background check run by his office. |
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Old news. This has been in the works for awhile. You will have to submit prints with the trust and the CLEO signoff will go away for the individual route. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Old news. This has been in the works for awhile. You will have to submit prints with the trust and the CLEO signoff will go away for the individual route. Are you sure about this? Does it still get sent to the police chief? Per the article: However, an online notice said that it will require “responsible persons” designated by the legal trusts to submit forms, photographs and fingerprints to the ATF and forwarded to the local chief police officer. The rule will also define the term “responsible person.” |
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Are you sure about this? Does it still get sent to the police chief? Per the article: View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Old news. This has been in the works for awhile. You will have to submit prints with the trust and the CLEO signoff will go away for the individual route. Are you sure about this? Does it still get sent to the police chief? Per the article: However, an online notice said that it will require “responsible persons” designated by the legal trusts to submit forms, photographs and fingerprints to the ATF and forwarded to the local chief police officer. The rule will also define the term “responsible person.” My understanding is that you have to forward the info to your CLEO, but the CLEO sign off is not required. If they don't like it, tough shit. You informed them and that's all you'd be required to do. |
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My understanding is that you have to forward the info to your CLEO, but the CLEO sign off is not required. If they don't like it, tough shit. You informed them and that's all you'd be required to do. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Old news. This has been in the works for awhile. You will have to submit prints with the trust and the CLEO signoff will go away for the individual route. Are you sure about this? Does it still get sent to the police chief? Per the article: However, an online notice said that it will require “responsible persons” designated by the legal trusts to submit forms, photographs and fingerprints to the ATF and forwarded to the local chief police officer. The rule will also define the term “responsible person.” My understanding is that you have to forward the info to your CLEO, but the CLEO sign off is not required. If they don't like it, tough shit. You informed them and that's all you'd be required to do. Much like you do when you apply for an 03C&R, I'm sure. |
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Are you sure about this? Does it still get sent to the police chief? Per the article: View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Old news. This has been in the works for awhile. You will have to submit prints with the trust and the CLEO signoff will go away for the individual route. Are you sure about this? Does it still get sent to the police chief? Per the article: However, an online notice said that it will require “responsible persons” designated by the legal trusts to submit forms, photographs and fingerprints to the ATF and forwarded to the local chief police officer. The rule will also define the term “responsible person.” If I recall correctly from when I read the proposed rule change the CLEO will be notified, but they have no say in the matter. |
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This can't be done without Congressional approval. So it could happen, but it's less likely.
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So will this effect NFA items already procured via trust or all new NFA items procured after a certain date?
-Anyone care to speculate? |
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FUCK my local sheriff is a dick
Thanks,I guess I need to learn to read more |
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Not that it makes any difference, but what does the actual law have to say?
Is this even something which the President can change by EO? Or does Federal statute only specify prints, CLEO signoff, etc from individuals? |
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Good luck with that. If they stop me using my corporation to buy NFA items, I guess I will just have to become a part of case law.
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An excellent question. Not to mention what will happen to all of the Forms currently pending using trusts... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So will this effect NFA items already procured via trust or all new NFA items procured after a certain date? -Anyone care to speculate? An excellent question. Not to mention what will happen to all of the Forms currently pending using trusts... My guess is that if the rule changed now, they'd kick your form back for not having all of the required papers when they finally got to it in 6 or 8 months. Forward, to Progress. Glorious 5 year plan forms for great gun-owning freedom. |
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