Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Site Notices
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Posted: 8/13/2013 11:27:33 PM EDT
Obama has directed the alphabet soup agencies to reclassify ammonium nitrate into the regulatory classification "Extremely Hazardous Substance" according to the EPA and OSHA.  DHS and BATFE are probably going to "determine" it to be an explosive requiring all the clap trap and licensing as real explosives.  It's all in the order if you know how to read bureaucrat.

Ag supply retailers, well the ones that this doesn't put out of business, ain't gonna sell A.N. to anyone without whatever kind of enduser permit they come up with to buy it.  The tannerite folks are probably going to be completely shut down by the new explosives regs or the transport & shipping restrictions.

If you like your BoomBoom targets you'd best stock up now.  You've got about 3 months if they actually hold to the timetable laid out in the E.O.

Anyone who objects to this wonderful safety and security enhancing imperial decree will be labeled a child hating terrorist.

Just saying...



Executive Order 13650
Improving Chemical Facility Safety and Security

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, it is hereby ordered as follows:
Section 1. Purpose. Chemicals, and the facilities where they are manufactured, stored, distributed, and used, are essential to today's economy. Past and recent tragedies have reminded us, however, that the handling and storage of chemicals are not without risk. The Federal Government has developed and implemented numerous programs aimed at reducing the safety risks and security risks associated with hazardous chemicals. However, additional measures can be taken by executive departments and agencies (agencies) with regulatory authority to further improve chemical facility safety and security in coordination with owners and operators.
Sec. 2. Establishment of the Chemical Facility Safety and Security Working Group. (a) There is established a Chemical Facility Safety and Security Working Group (Working Group) co-chaired by the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), and the Secretary of Labor or their designated representatives at the Assistant Secretary level or higher. In addition, the Working Group shall consist of the head of each of the following agencies or their designated representatives at the Assistant Secretary level or higher:
(i) the Department of Justice;
(ii) the Department of Agriculture; and
(iii) the Department of Transportation.
(b) In carrying out its responsibilities under this order, the Working Group shall consult with representatives from:
(i) the Council on Environmental Quality;
(ii) the National Security Staff;
(iii) the Domestic Policy Council;
(iv) the Office of Science and Technology Policy;
(v) the Office of Management and Budget (OMB);
(vi) the White House Office of Cabinet Affairs; and
(vii) such other agencies and offices as the President may designate.
(c) The Working Group shall meet no less than quarterly to discuss the status of efforts to implement this order. The Working Group is encouraged to invite other affected agencies, such as the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, to attend these meetings as appropriate. Additionally, the Working Group shall provide, within 270 days of the date of this order, a status report to the President through the Chair of the Council on Environmental Quality and the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism.
Sec. 3. Improving Operational Coordination with State, Local, and Tribal Partners. (a) Within 135 days of the date of this order, the Working Group shall develop a plan to support and further enable efforts by State regulators, State, local, and tribal emergency responders, chemical facility owners and operators, and local and tribal communities to work together to improve chemical facility safety and security. In developing this plan, the Working Group shall:
(i) identify ways to improve coordination among the Federal Government, first responders, and State, local, and tribal entities;
(ii) take into account the capabilities, limitations, and needs of the first responder community;
(iii) identify ways to ensure that State homeland security advisors, State Emergency Response Commissions (SERCs), Tribal Emergency Response Commissions (TERCs), Local Emergency Planning Committees (LEPCs), Tribal Emergency Planning Committees (TEPCs), State regulators, and first responders have ready access to key information in a useable format, including by thoroughly reviewing categories of chemicals for which information is provided to first responders and the manner in which it is made available, so as to prevent, prepare for, and respond to chemical incidents;
(iv) identify areas, in collaboration with State, local, and tribal governments and private sector partners, where joint collaborative programs can be developed or enhanced, including by better integrating existing authorities, jurisdictional responsibilities, and regulatory programs in order to achieve a more comprehensive engagement on chemical risk management;
(v) identify opportunities and mechanisms to improve response procedures and to enhance information sharing and collaborative planning between chemical facility owners and operators, TEPCs, LEPCs, and first responders;
(vi) working with the National Response Team (NRT) and Regional Response Teams (RRTs), identify means for Federal technical assistance to support developing, implementing, exercising, and revising State, local, and tribal emergency contingency plans, including improved training; and
(vii) examine opportunities to improve public access to information about chemical facility risks consistent with national security needs and appropriate protection of confidential business information.
(b) Within 90 days of the date of this order, the Attorney General, through the head of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), shall assess the feasibility of sharing data related to the storage of explosive materials with SERCs, TEPCs, and LEPCs.
(c) Within 90 days of the date of this order, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall assess the feasibility of sharing Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism Standards (CFATS) data with SERCs, TEPCs, and LEPCs on a categorical basis.
Sec. 4. Enhanced Federal Coordination. In order to enhance Federal coordination regarding chemical facility safety and security:
(a) Within 45 days of the date of this order, the Working Group shall deploy a pilot program, involving the EPA, Department of Labor, Department of Homeland Security, and any other appropriate agency, to validate best practices and to test innovative methods for Federal interagency collaboration regarding chemical facility safety and security. The pilot program shall operate in at least one region and shall integrate regional Federal, State, local, and tribal assets, where appropriate. The pilot program shall include innovative and effective methods of collecting, storing, and using facility information, stakeholder outreach, inspection planning, and, as appropriate, joint inspection efforts. The Working Group shall take into account the results of the pilot program in developing integrated standard operating procedures pursuant to subsection (b) of this section.
(b) Within 270 days of the date of this order, the Working Group shall create comprehensive and integrated standard operating procedures for a unified Federal approach for identifying and responding to risks in chemical facilities (including during pre-inspection, inspection execution, post-inspection, and post-accident investigation activities), incident reporting and response procedures, enforcement, and collection, storage, and use of facility information. This effort shall reflect best practices and shall include agency-to-agency referrals and joint inspection procedures where possible and appropriate, as well as consultation with the Federal Emergency Management Agency on post-accident response activities.
(c) Within 90 days of the date of this order, the Working Group shall consult with the Chemical Safety Board (CSB) and determine what, if any, changes are required to existing memorandums of understanding (MOUs) and processes between EPA and CSB, ATF and CSB, and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration and CSB for timely and full disclosure of information. To the extent appropriate, the Working Group may develop a single model MOU with CSB in lieu of existing agreements.
Sec. 5. Enhanced Information Collection and Sharing. In order to enhance information collection by and sharing across agencies to support more informed decisionmaking, streamline reporting requirements, and reduce duplicative efforts:
(a) Within 90 days of the date of this order, the Working Group shall develop an analysis, including recommendations, on the potential to improve information collection by and sharing between agencies to help identify chemical facilities which may not have provided all required information or may be non-compliant with Federal requirements to ensure chemical facility safety. This analysis should consider ongoing data-sharing efforts, other federally collected information, and chemical facility reporting among agencies (including information shared with State, local, and tribal governments).
(b) Within 180 days of the date of this order, the Working Group shall produce a proposal for a coordinated, flexible data-sharing process which can be utilized to track data submitted to agencies for federally regulated chemical facilities, including locations, chemicals, regulated entities, previous infractions, and other relevant information. The proposal shall allow for the sharing of information with and by State, local, and tribal entities where possible, consistent with section 3 of this order, and shall address computer-based and non-computer-based means for improving the process in the short-term, if they exist.
(c) Within 180 days of the date of this order, the Working Group shall identify and recommend possible changes to streamline and otherwise improve data collection to meet the needs of the public and Federal, State, local, and tribal agencies (including those charged with protecting workers and the public), consistent with the Paperwork Reduction Act and other relevant authorities, including opportunities to lessen the reporting burden on regulated industries. To the extent feasible, efforts shall minimize the duplicative collection of information while ensuring that pertinent information is shared with all key entities.
Sec. 6. Policy, Regulation, and Standards Modernization. (a) In order to enhance safety and security in chemical facilities by modernizing key policies, regulations, and standards, the Working Group shall:
(i) within 90 days of the date of this order, develop options for improved chemical facility safety and security that identifies improvements to existing risk management practices through agency programs,
(ii) within 90 days of developing the options described in subsection (a)(i) of this section, engage key stakeholders to discuss the options and other means to improve chemical risk management that may be available; and
(iii) within 90 days of completing the outreach and consultation effort described in subsection (a)(ii) of this section, develop a plan for implementing practical and effective improvements to chemical risk management identified pursuant to subsections (a)(i) and (ii) of this section.
(b) Within 90 days of the date of this order, the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Secretary of Labor, and the Secretary of Agriculture shall develop a list of potential regulatory and legislative proposals to improve the safe and secure storage, handling, and sale of ammonium nitrate and identify ways in which ammonium nitrate safety and security can be enhanced under existing authorities.
(c) Within 90 days of the date of this order, the Administrator of EPA and the Secretary of Labor shall review the chemical hazards covered by the Risk Management Program (RMP) and the Process Safety Management Standard (PSM) and determine if the RMP or PSM can and should be expanded to address additional regulated substances and types of hazards. In addition, the EPA and the Department of Labor shall develop a plan, including a timeline and resource requirements, to expand, implement, and enforce the RMP and PSM in a manner that addresses the additional regulated substances and types of hazards.
(d) Within 90 days of the date of this order, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall identify a list of chemicals, including poisons and reactive substances, that should be considered for addition to the CFATS Chemicals of Interest list.
(e) Within 90 days of the date of this order, the Secretary of Labor shall:
(i) identify any changes that need to be made in the retail and commercial grade exemptions in the PSM Standard; and
(ii) issue a Request for Information designed to identify issues related to modernization of the PSM Standard and related standards necessary to meet the goal of preventing major chemical accidents.
Sec. 7. Identification of Best Practices. The Working Group shall convene stakeholders, including chemical producers, chemical storage companies, agricultural supply companies, State and local regulators, chemical critical infrastructure owners and operators, first responders, labor organizations representing affected workers, environmental and community groups, and consensus standards organizations, in order to identify and share successes to date and best practices to reduce safety risks and security risks in the production and storage of potentially harmful chemicals, including through the use of safer alternatives, adoption of best practices, and potential public-private partnerships.
Sec. 8. General Provisions. (a) This order shall be implemented consistent with applicable law, including international trade obligations, and subject to the availability of appropriations.
(b) Nothing in this order shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:
(i) the authority granted by law to a department, agency, or the head thereof; or
(ii) the functions of the Director of OMB relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.
(c) This order is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.
BARACK OBAMA
THE WHITE HOUSE,
August 1, 2013.
View Quote
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 11:32:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Is this all related to the West, Tx. tragedy? That's how I take it.

And yeah, this is gonna screw farmers severely.
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 11:32:46 PM EDT
[#2]
I thought tannerite only explodes because of the impact of a high velocity object hitting it such as a bullet.

It also doesn't cause a flash or fire does it? How could this be even be applied in a terrorist attack?
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 11:36:46 PM EDT
[#3]
Because the main component of Tannerite is ammonium nitrate. Which is what this EO seems to be directed towards restricting even further.
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 11:38:45 PM EDT
[#4]
Banning fertilizer
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 11:40:27 PM EDT
[#5]
3 drums shouldn't cause any flags to go up or buzzers to sound.
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 11:40:46 PM EDT
[#6]
WTF?  How will this stand?  No really I want to know.  How?
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 11:43:14 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
WTF?  How will this stand?  No really I want to know.  How?
View Quote


It's a royal decree, that's how..
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 11:45:31 PM EDT
[#8]
My cousin sells this stuff at gun shows. Looks like he may need to find a new business venture.
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 11:46:45 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Because the main component of Tannerite is ammonium nitrate. Which is what this EO seems to be directed towards restricting even further.
View Quote


Winner! Winner! Chicken Dinner!   The Adair Grain explosion in West, Texas was the excuse they needed to justify this.  "Never let a crisis go to waste" and all that stuff as Rahm Emanuel likes to say.

Imagine having to get a Federal Explosives License and construct an approved explosives storage locker to possess unmixed Tannerite.  Farmers will probably have to get a NICS check or go through a background check and take a bullshit class to get a purchase/possession card to buy granular fertilizer now.  The order doesn't spell these things out specifically but it directs the bureaucratic minions to use their imaginations to come up with new and creative ways to make us all safer and less likely to blow shit up.
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 11:48:57 PM EDT
[#10]
Lets make it more difficult on our farmers and food supply than it already is! That'll help do us in! Good one, Obama!
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 11:52:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Well fucking up the food supply is one of the best ways to foment drastic and violent societal change you can believe  in.
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 11:52:50 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Well fucking up the food supply is one of the best ways to foment drastic and violent societal change you can believe  in.
View Quote

Yes but can it really stand up in court?
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 11:53:13 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Winner! Winner! Chicken Dinner!   The Adair Grain explosion in West, Texas was the excuse they needed to justify this.  "Never let a crisis go to waste" and all that stuff as Rahm Emanuel likes to say.

Imagine having to get a Federal Explosives License and construct an approved explosives storage locker to possess unmixed Tannerite.  Farmers will probably have to get a NICS check or go through a background check and take a bullshit class to get a purchase/possession card to buy granular fertilizer now.  The order doesn't spell these things out specifically but it directs the bureaucratic minions to use their imaginations to come up with new and creative ways to make us all safer and less likely to blow shit up.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Because the main component of Tannerite is ammonium nitrate. Which is what this EO seems to be directed towards restricting even further.


Winner! Winner! Chicken Dinner!   The Adair Grain explosion in West, Texas was the excuse they needed to justify this.  "Never let a crisis go to waste" and all that stuff as Rahm Emanuel likes to say.

Imagine having to get a Federal Explosives License and construct an approved explosives storage locker to possess unmixed Tannerite.  Farmers will probably have to get a NICS check or go through a background check and take a bullshit class to get a purchase/possession card to buy granular fertilizer now.  The order doesn't spell these things out specifically but it directs the bureaucratic minions to use their imaginations to come up with new and creative ways to make us all safer and less likely to blow shit up.

I guarantee you that if this does actually inhibit the agriculture industry in any way, all of Washington DC will get chased down and fed to pigs by angry farmers.

They do not take kindly to that kind of massive interference with producing our food supply.
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 11:54:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Hell, that EO that expanded the NDAA gave them authority seize all food supplies and means of production. All refrigeration. All storage facilities.

So I guess there'll just be less to confiscate.
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 11:56:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Yes but can it really stand up in court?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well fucking up the food supply is one of the best ways to foment drastic and violent societal change you can believe  in.

Yes but can it really stand up in court?


EO's aren't subject to being challenged in the courts as far as I know.
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 11:57:48 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


EO's aren't subject to being challenged in the courts as far as I know.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well fucking up the food supply is one of the best ways to foment drastic and violent societal change you can believe  in.

Yes but can it really stand up in court?


EO's aren't subject to being challenged in the courts as far as I know.

Well motherfucker!
Link Posted: 8/13/2013 11:59:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Where in the constitution does it give the right for the presidents to make laws?
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 12:01:10 AM EDT
[#18]
this is what America deserves honestly.

maybe they'll learn. for next voting season.

If not. They deserve it too.
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 12:01:49 AM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Well motherfucker!
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well fucking up the food supply is one of the best ways to foment drastic and violent societal change you can believe  in.

Yes but can it really stand up in court?


EO's aren't subject to being challenged in the courts as far as I know.

Well motherfucker!



To date, U.S. courts have overturned only two executive orders: the aforementioned Truman order, and a 1995 order issued by President Clinton that attempted to prevent the federal government from contracting with organizations that had strike-breakers on the payroll.
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 12:02:32 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Yes but can it really stand up in court?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well fucking up the food supply is one of the best ways to foment drastic and violent societal change you can believe  in.

Yes but can it really stand up in court?


Guess who appoints the judges.

A temporary injuction blocking implementation of the new regulations is the best we can hope for short term.  That will be a saving grace for the ag industry though.  No judge in his right mind is going to block "explosives regulations" only to be publically excoriated whenever some jackass misuses or God forbid uses tannerite in a terrorist attack.

The general ineptitude and collective retardation of the federal bureacracy is another thing that may help but I wouldn't count on it.  DHS & BATFE have had a huge hard on for Tannerite for a long long time.  I bet they have whole sets of manuals, that were developed years ago, rolling off the GPO presses to the field offices right now.

OSHA and EPA will show some leniency towards industry for a year or two for everyone to get their shit together before they go looking for a sacrificial goat to make an example of.  DHS/BATFE don't roll that way.  Expect them to ass rape some poor sod withing 6 months of the new rules implementation date.  CY6 fellas and don't be stupid.
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 12:04:21 AM EDT
[#21]
Ban things that are necessary for day to day life, and people start ignoring the laws. Try to enforce those laws hard enough, and people start making war.
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 12:06:08 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Where in the constitution does it give the right for the presidents to make laws?
View Quote


That's just it, they aren't laws. They're directives issued to the various federal agencies and departments as to how they are to interpret and enforce existing laws, sometimes in very creative ways. Also a way to create new regulations, which aren't quite laws.

It gets pretty complicated. I think FDR was the first to start this bullshit.

Anyway, there are much more knowledgeable folks here who'll be along shortly to explain what this really means.
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 12:48:13 AM EDT
[#23]
I work as a regulatory consultant for ag retailers.  In 1999 EPA required anhydrous ammonia retailers and fertilizer plants to create and submit for review a Risk Management Plan.  In 1999 I had about 15 customers that I help write RMP's for.  Today I have only one.  Ten of those customers were put out of business altogether by the large financial and time costs required to maintain compliance under the RMP.  Four decided that they would no longer retail anhydrous ammonia or use it in their liquid fertilizer manufacturing processes.  Tens of thousands of farmers then lost access to the cheapest and easiest way to directly apply nitrogen fertilizer to their crops in my state.

This is RMP, an OSHA PSM, new DOT transport licensing and restrictions, plus who know what kind of duplicative and ultimately useless bullshit from DHS & gang.  DHS has a really bad habit of copying EPA/OSHA laws and then adding a whole bunch of extra stupid "It's Classified" crap on top.  If this stands it will cripple the fertilizer industry and drive production costs through the roof.  There are not any equivalent compounds that are as stable, easy to make and as cheap as Ammonium Nitrate.  The idiotically fast timetable for implementation of this stuff doesn't give the industry any time to change production processes or storage facilities.  This is going to be a monumental government caused clusterfuck.  This will cripple food AND fuel production in the US for several years if it goes through like the administration plans.  Ammonium Nitrate is critical to high corn yields.  Corn is the foundation crop of the American food supply and the fuel additive ethanol.

Granular fertilizer is exempted by statute from all this stuff.  I don't have the exact ones in front of me to cite at the moment but they are there.  That isn't stopping the Obama administration a bit though.  They retroactively added granular fertilizer to the CFATS database crap earlier this year.  What really pisses me off about CFATS is the data we have to help clients submit is the same exact shit that gets submitted under the annual Community Right To Know Act Tier II reports to the state Agencies, local emergency agencies, and local fire departments.  This information is public by law under the EPA statutes and DHS makes the same exact information "classified" with  federal felony charges and fines for disclosure of the information to "non-cleared" parties.  This time & money wasting paradox has been brought to DHS's attention as well as the former head of the senate Homeland Security Committee and the equivalent committee heads from the House of Representatives.  Every time their answer was the standard Washington D.C. code words for fuck off, "We'll look into it".
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 7:11:08 AM EDT
[#24]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Well fucking up the food supply is one of the best ways to foment drastic and violent societal change you can believe  in.
View Quote




Let them eat cake



 
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 7:20:27 AM EDT
[#25]
So to start the panic buying.....

Anybody know of a good vendor?  I've never bought the shit before, but if they're gonna ban it I might stock a bit away.  
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 8:44:47 AM EDT
[#26]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


So to start the panic buying.....



Anybody know of a good vendor?  I've never bought the shit before, but if they're gonna ban it I might stock a bit away.  
View Quote




I still have some from a few years ago but I am pretty sure I bought mine from a vendor on this site and there is some recipes on the internet to make your own but I have no idea how Obucko's EO will work on home made stuff?



 
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 8:45:57 AM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I still have some from a few years ago but I am pretty sure I bought mine from a vendor on this site and there is some recipes on the internet to make your own but I have no idea how Obucko's EO will work on home made stuff?
 
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
So to start the panic buying.....

Anybody know of a good vendor?  I've never bought the shit before, but if they're gonna ban it I might stock a bit away.  


I still have some from a few years ago but I am pretty sure I bought mine from a vendor on this site and there is some recipes on the internet to make your own but I have no idea how Obucko's EO will work on home made stuff?
 


It's nothing but AN and powdered aluminum right?
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 8:47:26 AM EDT
[#28]
lol...

It's like Afghanistan...except without the Afghans.
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 8:47:28 AM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


It's a royal decree, that's how..
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
WTF?  How will this stand?  No really I want to know.  How?


It's a royal decree, that's how..


Was going to say that. Congress is now totally irrelevant. Zero has his people blow the horns and make a proclamation, and it's done.
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 8:48:41 AM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Banning fertilizer
View Quote



It's for the children you know.
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 8:49:43 AM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



It's for the children you know.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

Banning fertilizer



It's for the children you know.


Besides, we can import all our crops from China.
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 8:50:00 AM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


It's a royal decree, that's how..
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Quoted:

WTF?  How will this stand?  No really I want to know.  How?

It's a royal decree, that's how..



"Obey"  
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 9:19:27 AM EDT
[#33]
The food cost end of it is way overblown.  The fact is that the AN used to make tannerite is not a commonly used fertilizer anymore.  The AN being used is a urea based compound that is more stable and is not usable as ANFO explosives or reactive targets.  I work in the ag industry and I have yet to come across any grower that uses it or dealer that carries it.  Even before all the restrictions put in place after Oklahoma City it was on the decline for usage.

Either way FBHO.
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 9:30:17 AM EDT
[#34]
Sounds like I need to step up my game and get my business going.
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 9:31:16 AM EDT
[#35]
But I thought EO's don't work that way.
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 9:41:50 AM EDT
[#36]
Thought EO's only apply to fed agencies and workers, not the gen public.

Otherwise EO's would be circumventing Congress' authority to make law.

Also, making Am Nit. listed as sooperdooper dangerous stuff will only reduce the food supply.....which is one of our few positive exports we have left.
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 9:43:19 AM EDT
[#37]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Thought EO's only apply to fed agencies and workers, not the gen public.



Otherwise EO's would be circumventing Congress' authority to make law.



Also, making Am Nit. listed as sooperdooper dangerous stuff will only reduce the food supply.....which is one of our few positive exports we have left.
View Quote
Why do you think zero cares?



 
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 9:45:38 AM EDT
[#38]
where's all the "tin foil! tin foil!" folks at now?
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 9:46:46 AM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So to start the panic buying.....

Anybody know of a good vendor?  I've never bought the shit before, but if they're gonna ban it I might stock a bit away.  
View Quote

Their website.
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 9:48:46 AM EDT
[#40]
6(b) Within 90 days of the date of this order, the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Secretary of Labor, and the Secretary of Agriculture shall develop a list of potential regulatory and legislative proposals to improve the safe and secure storage, handling, and sale of ammonium nitrate and identify ways in which ammonium nitrate safety and security can be enhanced under existing authorities.
...
6(d) Within 90 days of the date of this order, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall identify a list of chemicals, including poisons and reactive substances, that should be considered for addition to the CFATS Chemicals of Interest list.


CFATS list here: http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/chemsec_appendixa-chemicalofinterestlist.pdf

So the worry is that it could be reclassified as 'Theft - WME/CWE/EXP' on the CFATS list?

Is AN still heavily used in corn production? Assuming it is, the futures market on corn is/has been stable, indicating the market doesn't think any sweeping changes are coming in terms of corn production. The EO says within 90 days they need a report of what to change about the storage/transportation/manufactuing of AN, I would think the corn futures market would reflect uncertainty about it being reclassified if it was a legit possibility.
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 9:52:22 AM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The food cost end of it is way overblown.  The fact is that the AN used to make tannerite is not a commonly used fertilizer anymore.  The AN being used is a urea based compound that is more stable and is not usable as ANFO explosives or reactive targets.  I work in the ag industry and I have yet to come across any grower that uses it or dealer that carries it.  Even before all the restrictions put in place after Oklahoma City it was on the decline for usage.

Either way FBHO.
View Quote


Um, ammonium nitrate is ammonium nitrate.  It is never "urea" based.

Link Posted: 8/14/2013 9:52:37 AM EDT
[#42]
I think this will just affect 34-0-0 and not triple 17 or 34-10-10
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 9:57:10 AM EDT
[#43]
I've got a whole pile of exploding/reactive targets on the display next to me right now.  Maybe I need to raise the price before the panic buying commences
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 9:58:27 AM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


It's nothing but AN and powdered aluminum right?
View Quote


That's my understanding, though I've never tried nor made the stuff.

Protip: "explosive AnAl" is not a sufficiently narrow search term for google. Expect a few irrelevant results.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 9:58:28 AM EDT
[#45]
I love how executive orders are now being used to legislate.

Their intended function was to order troop movements, etc.

This is all such bullshit.
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 10:00:03 AM EDT
[#46]
How will this effect farmers and food prices.  One guys says yes it will one guy says no it wont.
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 10:06:22 AM EDT
[#47]
Is this for real?
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 10:26:36 AM EDT
[#48]
Bump.
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 11:30:05 AM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
this is what America deserves honestly.

maybe they'll learn. for next voting season.

If not. They deserve it too.
View Quote


While true, most of America doesn't pay enough attention to know better.

If they did, they'd be holding Obama's feet to the fire.
Link Posted: 8/14/2013 11:47:04 AM EDT
[#50]
Time to add more letters to BATFE.  Figure BATFEF (second F for fertilizer) or BATFEAN, with AN for Ammonium Nitrate?
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 2
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top